Star Wars Outlaws w/ John from Gaming In The Wild

[00:00:09] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of The Pre-Order Bonus Podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Cameron Warren, and I'm joined, as always, by Jacob Price and our special guest on today's episode, John from Gaming In The Wild podcast. John, how are you doing?

[00:00:23] Doing very well, thank you. Coming to you from the wild up here at the top of the world, in the Arctic Circle, or adjacent to it anyway, in Iceland, and happy to be with you.

[00:00:34] John coming to us from the dark, cold Iceland, where he plays video games in his log. I imagine a dark log cabin deep in the woods. John, is that accurate?

[00:00:47] That's exactly where I live. Yeah, you nailed it. That's where everyone should imagine me.

[00:00:51] Surrounded by waterfalls and various volcanic mountain ranges.

[00:00:57] Exactly, wearing fur, eating a leg of some kind of meat, as I podcast.

[00:01:03] Your home was the film, it was the setting for, they used the grounds of your cabin for the filming of, I can't remember the name of the movie. It's the Viking movie with Robert Eagers. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[00:01:15] They're always in my house, the movie people. It's like constant rotation.

[00:01:21] Well, enough about that. John, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[00:01:25] You are coming on because we're going to have a special episode talking about Star Wars Outlaws.

[00:01:28] But before we do that, I wanted to just take a quick news breakdown.

[00:01:32] So the biggest piece of news that kind of came out over the weekend is the formation of Halo Studios.

[00:01:40] 343 is no more.

[00:01:42] And we now have Halo Studios.

[00:01:44] They have thrown away whatever that engine's called, Slipstream or Slipspace, something like that.

[00:01:54] And they're switching completely to Unreal 5.

[00:01:58] Initial thoughts, reactions, John, Jake on Halo Studios.

[00:02:02] I have a question for you, actually. You seem to know what's up with this.

[00:02:04] Do you know if it's, did they just tear the 343 label off the building and slap on Halo Studios?

[00:02:09] Is it basically just a rebrand with the same folks?

[00:02:12] Or is it some kind of more significant switch up?

[00:02:15] So, so I do know that the old 343i leadership has been canned.

[00:02:22] And they have new leadership, which is some people from the old leadership, but a lot of different new people from outside and I think from inside the company.

[00:02:32] And they have torn down the 343.

[00:02:36] That 343 no longer exists.

[00:02:38] That is not a thing.

[00:02:39] It is now Halo Studios.

[00:02:43] That is the main big changes that I know.

[00:02:45] And then obviously, like, the engine shift is obviously like a technological change.

[00:02:49] But yeah, so it's new leadership.

[00:02:52] So it kind of marks like a new direction forward for the series in terms of like what they're going to do.

[00:02:58] Now, as to what that actually means, we know like a little bit from like from the announcement that they have a few projects in the work and that they're going to be an Unreal Engine.

[00:03:09] But that's pretty much it.

[00:03:12] Did you guys play Halo Infinite?

[00:03:13] I thought it was pretty good, man.

[00:03:14] I'm no Halo expert, but I quite enjoyed that game.

[00:03:18] I mean, we liked it quite a lot, actually.

[00:03:21] And we've been playing a lot of Halo.

[00:03:24] I guess my sort of personal history with Halo is I played the crap out of Halo 1 and 2.

[00:03:28] I played those a lot, a lot.

[00:03:30] Halo 3, 4, and 5.

[00:03:33] Halo 3 I played quite a lot of, but like 4 and 5, I hadn't played until like two years ago.

[00:03:38] I decided to go back on the Master Chief collection and play through the campaigns of the games that I had missed.

[00:03:44] Yeah, please listen to our episode on Halo Infinite because, and honestly, this is one of those games that I think in like retrospect, hindsight is not 2020.

[00:03:55] People kind of see this launch as a total colossal failure, but like it was really highly praised and the multiplayer was really praised.

[00:04:03] So we really liked it.

[00:04:05] I really liked it.

[00:04:06] I think the issue mainly with Halo Infinite is that it was part of this new live service, games as a service trend.

[00:04:14] And there's a content pipeline that they just couldn't keep up with compared to other big heavy hitters, namely Fortnite, which I think is an impossible bar to reach.

[00:04:24] And please, CEOs, stop trying to do that to all of your games.

[00:04:26] But, but yeah, so since then, I feel like, I don't know, Halo is, I don't know.

[00:04:33] I like this announcement.

[00:04:34] I love Halo and I'm always optimistic for it.

[00:04:37] But I just, I'm worried that Halo has kind of slipped out of like, it's no longer a big marquee title.

[00:04:47] It is maybe for our generation, but maybe not for gaming as a whole.

[00:04:51] And I just wonder where Halo fits in the future.

[00:04:54] I think my issue with this announcement is that I think they've already, they already kind of did this once.

[00:05:01] Like, right.

[00:05:02] They, so after Halo five, it was like, okay, we're going to figure out like what the next generation is.

[00:05:08] And then they did Halo Infinite and they were like, oh, we got this new engine.

[00:05:11] Right.

[00:05:12] So they, cause they changed the engine or they upgraded it or made some major change.

[00:05:16] And they announced that at the time.

[00:05:17] They're like, Hey, look at our new engine.

[00:05:19] And they showed a showcase of like, here's what the new engine looks like.

[00:05:22] And it was like, oh, this looks like really cool.

[00:05:24] And it was like, okay, this is going to be some open world version of Halo.

[00:05:27] And that was cool.

[00:05:30] I, Halo Infinite was actually my game of the year in 2021.

[00:05:34] Really?

[00:05:35] Like I, I really liked it.

[00:05:37] I really liked the game.

[00:05:38] Yeah.

[00:05:38] It was like really good.

[00:05:40] However, I don't know like what the game did financially.

[00:05:45] I don't understand like what is happening in that, but obviously it didn't do what they expected it to do.

[00:05:53] Is that is changing to a new engine going to change the fate of the Halo franchise?

[00:05:59] I don't really know.

[00:06:02] Is that going to solve like the content pipeline issues, which was seemingly the problem with the multiplayer is that they did.

[00:06:07] They wanted to have a super active multiplayer component that just didn't do anywhere near what they expected.

[00:06:14] I think my main issue with this is we see Halo, whatever the next iteration of Halo, we now do not see that until 2030.

[00:06:22] So like you're already out of relevance now because Halo Infinite flopped.

[00:06:28] And so now the only people who are going to play Halo in 2030 are old geezers like me and Jake.

[00:06:35] So you're basically catering to 40 year olds and you need and you can't do that.

[00:06:40] You have to cater to a lot more people than that.

[00:06:42] If you want Halo to do what I expect Microsoft expects to do, it's a tall mountain to climb in my opinion.

[00:06:49] Bleak.

[00:06:49] I love it.

[00:06:52] No Halo till 2030.

[00:06:54] I mean, I like Halo, but like, let's be honest.

[00:06:57] We're not going to see a new Halo till we're going to see the next iteration.

[00:07:01] We might see like a remake or some mode or something, but we're not going to see the next thing of Halo for at least five to six years.

[00:07:09] Right?

[00:07:09] Maybe that's a good thing.

[00:07:10] Like, you know, if they're going to launch a new console and people have been Halo has been gone for a long time.

[00:07:16] Everyone was mad at the old team.

[00:07:17] The old team's gone.

[00:07:19] Excuse me.

[00:07:19] So there's going to be a new console, a new team, a new start.

[00:07:23] People might actually be hungry for it again.

[00:07:25] It'll just take a while.

[00:07:26] Right?

[00:07:28] Yeah.

[00:07:28] I mean, maybe.

[00:07:29] I mean, I think people like us might be excited for it, but yeah, they've got a lot to do.

[00:07:35] And it's just like, what do you do?

[00:07:36] Do you create a new mode?

[00:07:37] Do you like, do you do this?

[00:07:40] Because if you can't, if you stray too far, then it's no longer Halo.

[00:07:43] It's just a first person shooter.

[00:07:44] And so, and they did arena shooter.

[00:07:46] I thought they did arena shooter really well.

[00:07:48] Are they just going to do that again?

[00:07:50] But it's an unreal engine five.

[00:07:51] Does it feel as good as the old game?

[00:07:53] There's so many tough questions here.

[00:07:55] I do not envy Halo leadership one bit.

[00:07:57] I would not want to be, I would not want to run that franchise.

[00:08:01] I'm just saying that.

[00:08:02] If you had to put money on it now, by the time the next Halo comes around, do you think game pass will exist in the form that it exists in currently?

[00:08:10] Ooh, now there's a question.

[00:08:12] Um, I honestly think, um, I think game pass is not going anywhere.

[00:08:18] Honestly, I think it's a bet that Microsoft, like beyond Xbox is all in on still.

[00:08:24] Um, and I think that they want to keep it because from what I understand, it is profitable, but it's not hitting the margins that they want.

[00:08:33] And so I don't think there's a reason for them to just totally kill it or ax it.

[00:08:38] But at the same time, we, and this is, I think was really interesting about Xbox is it tend to be super transparent about what they're doing.

[00:08:46] And so we know that like, for example, they just released a bunch of games on PS five first party games.

[00:08:52] And we already know that Indiana Jones is coming to PS five, six months after it launches on Xbox consoles.

[00:08:57] And so that allows, you know, the random person to know that, well, Xbox is trying to come up with alternate paths to be sustainable financially and hit whatever their financial goals are.

[00:09:09] So I think that game pass will still be around unless it becomes unprofitable, unless they're starting to lose money on it.

[00:09:16] Then it gets the ax.

[00:09:17] But I think at this, at this point, it's like a safe revenue stream.

[00:09:22] I think game pass, if game pass exists, if game passes on PlayStation and Nintendo, we'd love to see that.

[00:09:34] If they can't figure out capitulation in the console war, it's like, if they can't figure out how to get game pass on PlayStation and Nintendo, I think it changes.

[00:09:43] I just think it, I think it changes.

[00:09:44] I don't think they can sustain the model.

[00:09:47] And if they can't sustain that model, then it really raises questions on like the validity of Xbox as like a business, right?

[00:09:55] Because that's, that's their main strategy.

[00:09:58] So like, what do you do if that fails?

[00:10:00] You are, if that fails, Phil Spencer and all that leadership team will be fired and it'll be a completely new thing.

[00:10:06] Or they'll just throw Xbox to the wayside, which I don't think Satya Nadella will do because I think it makes enough money.

[00:10:14] And it's like, gaming is always like, oh man, like, what are we going to do with gaming?

[00:10:18] Like, it's always like the next frontier.

[00:10:20] It's not like the frontier.

[00:10:22] It's always like the next frontier.

[00:10:23] It seems to be like always on the cusp of being like massive or bigger than the other thing, which is Microsoft Office or AI in the case of Microsoft.

[00:10:32] So we'll see.

[00:10:33] It's an interesting future for sure.

[00:10:35] I hope, I kind of hope it does.

[00:10:37] I like Game Pass.

[00:10:38] It works for me.

[00:10:39] I personally really like it, but if it's not on PlayStation, it might not happen.

[00:10:45] Yeah.

[00:10:46] I got a feeling that, I don't know, the higher ups at Microsoft seem to be leaning pretty hard on the Xbox folks.

[00:10:53] I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some pretty big changes across the next few years.

[00:10:57] And by the time the next Halo swings around, it might just be, you know, go and buy it $60, $70 or whatever.

[00:11:03] So there we go.

[00:11:04] We got a spread.

[00:11:05] We got a spread here.

[00:11:06] Cameron says Game Pass will be on Switch and PlayStation maybe.

[00:11:10] Jake says it's still going strong.

[00:11:12] I say it's gone.

[00:11:13] So let's check in in 2030 and see who was right.

[00:11:15] See ya.

[00:11:16] Let's see what's going on.

[00:11:17] You know, when we're all just back buying video games from the Toys R Us catalog, then we know that we've just come full circle.

[00:11:24] You know?

[00:11:25] Oh my goodness.

[00:11:27] But before the next installment of Halo comes out, I am like, I'm confident that they've got to be working on a Helldivers version of Halo.

[00:11:37] It seems like an easy slam dunk.

[00:11:41] Like when Helldivers 2 first came out, everybody, and by everybody I mean the small social media bubble that I'm a part of, was like, if I could do this as a Spartan or as Master Chief, this would be really cool.

[00:11:55] And I just got to think, like, if they're working on multiple projects, that is one of them, right?

[00:12:01] That's got to be one.

[00:12:02] The problem is, Jake, is because the fact that you say that means that every single studio on the planet is trying to figure out how to make their own version of Helldivers right now.

[00:12:12] Or a Helldivers mode.

[00:12:15] Like, there's going to be 50 of these modes and games in the exact same vein, like in the next five years.

[00:12:22] But will they have the plasma?

[00:12:23] I mean, the Halos could be really good.

[00:12:24] Well, they have the plasma sword.

[00:12:26] I don't know, man.

[00:12:28] That's true.

[00:12:28] That could make all the difference.

[00:12:31] And 10 years from now, we're going to get that Halo Helldivers mode.

[00:12:35] But in the meantime.

[00:12:37] Wait, one more piece of news.

[00:12:38] In the meantime.

[00:12:39] Okay, sorry, sorry.

[00:12:39] Aren't you guys excited to wake up to the Alarmo coming from Nintendo?

[00:12:46] I trust that you guys have seen this.

[00:12:48] Nintendo announced their newest hardware, the Alarmo.

[00:12:52] It is not the Switch 2.

[00:12:52] It is the Alarmo.

[00:12:54] It's...

[00:12:56] This is a long...

[00:12:57] Jake, tell us about the Alarmo.

[00:12:58] What is this thing?

[00:12:59] It's a $100 alarm clock that tracks your sleeping patterns, gives you information, and then pings Nintendo noises at you all the time.

[00:13:10] It seems like the most Nintendo thing to do.

[00:13:13] Like, everybody is just like eagerly on the edge of their seat, wanting desperately to know what's coming out after the Switch.

[00:13:20] We're talking about the Switch 2.

[00:13:22] We don't even know if it's called the Switch 2.

[00:13:24] We've been talking about it for years.

[00:13:26] Nintendo just out of left field.

[00:13:28] Guess what, gamers?

[00:13:29] We got an alarm clock for you.

[00:13:32] And guess what the name is?

[00:13:33] It's freaking Alarmo.

[00:13:35] Alarmo.

[00:13:36] Right.

[00:13:36] I mean, how could you not take that incredibly successful Labo and like move it into the future?

[00:13:42] You know what I mean?

[00:13:44] What about Alarmio?

[00:13:46] Like Mario Alarm?

[00:13:47] Why does...

[00:13:48] Why does this exist?

[00:13:50] I don't...

[00:13:50] Who's the target demographic?

[00:13:52] Why...

[00:13:53] Why does the Nintendo R&D department spend time on this?

[00:13:56] What's the...

[00:13:57] What's the phrase that they have again on the wall that's like the Nintendo company motto?

[00:14:01] It's like...

[00:14:02] I want to say Dandori, but it's probably not that.

[00:14:05] But it's the idea that...

[00:14:07] It's that central idea that they always quote...

[00:14:09] That Shigeru Miyamoto always quotes in interviews and they say, like, is it going to be Switch 2?

[00:14:13] Is it just going to be the same thing again?

[00:14:15] And there's all these pictures of the Nintendo head standing in front of this kanji on the wall.

[00:14:21] And it just means like always change, always stay fresh, always move forward kind of thing.

[00:14:26] So it's like sort of...

[00:14:27] It's part of Nintendo that we like frown at and are puzzled by.

[00:14:32] But it's also like part of Nintendo that makes them different to everyone else.

[00:14:35] Just they keep doing this crazy stuff and it's like philosophically part of them, you know?

[00:14:40] And this is just yet another strange little shot in the dark from Nintendo as they chase that philosophy.

[00:14:49] I mean, admittedly, my kid would love this.

[00:14:52] Christmas is around the corner.

[00:14:54] It's also $100 though, so probably not going to happen.

[00:14:58] That was the last bit of news I had to get in there because...

[00:15:01] You know, the social media gaming bubble is such a cesspit that it's so nice every once in a while to just have Nintendo say that they're going to do something wacky.

[00:15:12] And then everybody can just kind of be friendly for a second and just at least bond over the fact that Nintendo is always weird before we get back to our bickering.

[00:15:19] So I wanted to get that out there.

[00:15:23] Yeah, I mean, that was really important, Jake.

[00:15:24] We really needed to talk about Alarmo.

[00:15:26] That's critical to the podcast.

[00:15:28] No.

[00:15:29] No, that was...

[00:15:30] Hardware of the year.

[00:15:31] Nintendo, weird Nintendo decisions.

[00:15:34] WNDs are continuing to be rampant.

[00:15:38] Well, with that, ladies and gentlemen, let's move into our main topic of today's show, which is talking about Star Wars Outlaws from Ubisoft.

[00:15:45] Jake, how are we going to break this one down?

[00:15:47] We will be talking about Star Wars Outlaws in three different categories.

[00:15:51] The first one is narrative.

[00:15:52] We're talking about the story elements.

[00:15:54] Typically, we talk about the games thematically more so than plot.

[00:15:58] However, a quick warning.

[00:16:00] There will be a spoiler section here where we are going to talk about things that happen throughout the whole course of the game.

[00:16:06] So for the majority of this section, we're going to talk about like the first 20-30% of what happens in the game.

[00:16:10] That's fair game.

[00:16:11] And then there'll be a moment and we will warn you that we are going to be talking about everything that happens kind of in the rest of the game.

[00:16:18] So that's the first section.

[00:16:20] The second category is game design.

[00:16:22] Here, we're going to be talking about the mechanics, what you're doing to interact with the game, just the different systems that are in play that make the game fun.

[00:16:29] And just all elements of design are kind of fair game here, talking about just how the worlds are set up and what it is that paces the game as you progress through it.

[00:16:38] And then finally, impact on the industry.

[00:16:41] This is where we tend to get a little bit more speculative about just kind of what we think that the game is doing to the industry at large and what kind of wake it's leaving.

[00:16:49] It is kind of fascinating because we have gotten quite a bit of information about Star Wars Outlaws, despite it being a relatively new game.

[00:16:57] And so there's plenty to say here.

[00:16:59] And I imagine the conversation will get interesting.

[00:17:01] Spicy topic for this game.

[00:17:03] That's pretty, pretty spicy, right?

[00:17:05] And but yeah, we'll get to that in our last category at the end of the episode.

[00:17:11] Well, let's dive right in.

[00:17:13] We'll start with narrative.

[00:17:14] I'm going to go.

[00:17:15] I'm going to go to John first, but let's set the stage for you.

[00:17:19] If you don't, if you're not aware, Star Wars Outlaws is the smuggler Star Wars fantasy fulfilled?

[00:17:29] Question mark.

[00:17:31] You play as K-Vess.

[00:17:34] You are from that weird casino planet from The Last Jedi that was completely ancillary to the plot and made no sense.

[00:17:42] But, you know, they fit it in here.

[00:17:45] Canto Bight.

[00:17:47] Canto Bight, yes.

[00:17:49] See, I don't even know the name.

[00:17:51] Raised as a, you know, a street rat smuggler type.

[00:17:55] And you get set, put out on a mission and things go wrong.

[00:18:01] And then you got to settle a score.

[00:18:04] You got to get your big score.

[00:18:05] And that's kind of how things get kicked off.

[00:18:08] Set in the Star Wars universe.

[00:18:10] John, what are your big thoughts on the narrative for Star Wars Outlaws?

[00:18:14] Did this do it for you?

[00:18:16] The game as a whole did it for me quite a lot, actually.

[00:18:19] And surprisingly, I mean, I'm not a Ubisoft super fan, to be very English about it, despite having played a bunch of their last few blockbusters here.

[00:18:33] Extremely hit or miss with the writing, I think, generally.

[00:18:36] Extremely hit or miss with dialogue.

[00:18:38] All of the plot arcs of Ubisoft games tend to feel a little focus grouped for me and a little sanded down until there's no edge left on anything.

[00:18:46] And it's like a sort of Frankenstein's monster of things we've seen before in different movies and different games.

[00:18:53] So I was actually quite pleasantly surprised by some of what Star Wars Outlaws did.

[00:18:57] On the broad strands of it, it's like a heist movie.

[00:19:01] You have to bring your team together.

[00:19:03] You have to go and do the big job.

[00:19:05] And we love those, right?

[00:19:06] We've been loving those since the 1960s, 1950s, earlier.

[00:19:09] Like the big heist, the big score.

[00:19:11] So I'm here for that.

[00:19:13] That's just like a classic story that I'm down for.

[00:19:16] And there's some other interesting stuff in here too.

[00:19:18] K-Vess, we learn right at the start of the game that she was abandoned as a child.

[00:19:23] That she's been brought up in the back of a bar.

[00:19:25] That she doesn't really have anyone apart from her little pet.

[00:19:28] Who she has a strong bond with.

[00:19:30] That it plays out in gameplay as well.

[00:19:32] And they actually, to my surprise, did explore a little bit of K-Vess's abandonment complex.

[00:19:39] And a little bit of the way that she relates to other people throughout the game.

[00:19:43] And their reliability.

[00:19:45] Whether she should trust them.

[00:19:47] And all that sort of stuff.

[00:19:48] So by the end of it, I was quite happy with what they did.

[00:19:51] I would say happier than I expected to be.

[00:19:54] Given Ubisoft's checkered history with taking plots home over recent years.

[00:20:01] Yeah, I love that.

[00:20:02] I would say, I would add that on what you said on the...

[00:20:08] I think this game, probably more than any other that I've played.

[00:20:15] It does two things specifically that stand out from a narrative standpoint.

[00:20:19] One that didn't work for me.

[00:20:22] And one that I thought they did really well.

[00:20:25] I...

[00:20:26] This is a slight spoiler.

[00:20:28] So skip ahead 30 seconds if you don't want any spoilers whatsoever.

[00:20:32] But I thought that they pulled off the twist.

[00:20:36] Was actually, I think, was really pretty solid.

[00:20:39] Like, I thought it was a good twist.

[00:20:41] Which, usually in video games, you can see it coming from 100 miles away.

[00:20:45] This one was actually pretty good.

[00:20:47] And I actually kind of liked it.

[00:20:48] And I liked kind of the implications of it.

[00:20:50] But so much so that I kind of wish that we knew about it sooner.

[00:20:54] Because it felt like rushed as a resolution at the end of the game.

[00:20:58] It felt like it was too much happening too fast.

[00:21:00] Where if I had known about that earlier,

[00:21:02] That might have given me a teeny bit more incentive

[00:21:06] To kind of see through the rest of the narrative.

[00:21:09] And kind of what was happening.

[00:21:10] And they try...

[00:21:11] And they pack in.

[00:21:12] And these final moments.

[00:21:13] Like, all these things culminate.

[00:21:15] That you don't really...

[00:21:17] They kind of needed to maybe tee that up a little bit better.

[00:21:20] And then the thing I didn't really like is that

[00:21:22] There's a relationship between KVS and...

[00:21:25] What's the robot's name?

[00:21:28] ND5.

[00:21:29] And ND5.

[00:21:30] That I think is a little bit ham-fisted.

[00:21:34] In the sense that I don't...

[00:21:36] Like, they try and make them have a relationship.

[00:21:39] But I just don't think they pull it off very well with dialogue.

[00:21:42] And that could be because of the open world nature of the game.

[00:21:45] Where things are happening in a disjointed manner.

[00:21:48] And so that relationship doesn't have time to develop.

[00:21:51] Like, if you just jump to story points.

[00:21:53] And you do certain things.

[00:21:53] It doesn't really gel.

[00:21:55] And then they use that as kind of a big narrative hook near the end of the game.

[00:21:59] That didn't work super well for me.

[00:22:01] But overall, John, I think I largely agree with you.

[00:22:04] Like, just sort of a...

[00:22:07] General...

[00:22:07] Like, heist movie feel.

[00:22:09] It doesn't have to have galaxy-spanning implications.

[00:22:12] And it was just kind of like, go get your team.

[00:22:14] And we're going to go steal from a rich guy.

[00:22:17] And I...

[00:22:17] Yeah.

[00:22:18] I thought that was actually pretty refreshing.

[00:22:21] Yeah.

[00:22:21] I really like the straightforwardness of that overarching narrative right there.

[00:22:28] I...

[00:22:29] There was actually quite a lot that I actually liked about this narrative.

[00:22:32] There's quite a lot.

[00:22:34] So...

[00:22:34] I'm so happy to hear that, man.

[00:22:35] I was expecting this to be a bit more of a punching bag session.

[00:22:38] And so I'm glad that some people are on team posi about this game.

[00:22:40] John, you're going to find Jake and I are actually...

[00:22:43] We...

[00:22:43] I think the big overarching...

[00:22:45] Just so everybody listening understands.

[00:22:47] The big overarching thing, we are way more positive on this game than I think the rest of the industry was.

[00:22:54] So this is going to be a positive podcast, I think, for the most part.

[00:22:57] A lot of happy.

[00:22:58] A lot of smiling.

[00:23:00] What I liked about it is that you...

[00:23:03] I mean, this is...

[00:23:04] You have to recruit all of your team members.

[00:23:06] And you have to go to different planets to do so.

[00:23:09] And what I liked is that they gave you a bunch of different scenarios that were just simply compelling to try to get this person.

[00:23:16] Why this person?

[00:23:17] And what scenario do you find them in?

[00:23:19] And what I actually think that Star Wars Outlaws does incredibly well is...

[00:23:24] I think, Cameron, I'm going to add on to something that you said.

[00:23:27] It doesn't have like galaxy-spanning additions or modifications to the Star Wars canon.

[00:23:32] Which I think is a very good decision.

[00:23:35] Because Star Wars fans can be really prickly, to put it simply.

[00:23:40] About anything that kind of pushes that.

[00:23:44] However, what I did really like is that it took the galaxy that we are familiar with.

[00:23:48] That we know and love.

[00:23:49] And it just added on a bunch of detail and nuance to it.

[00:23:53] But one of my favorite planets to visit was probably...

[00:23:57] I don't know.

[00:23:57] This is a bit of a spoiler.

[00:23:58] So maybe we'll get to it later.

[00:23:59] But I had a planet that you get to visit.

[00:24:02] And I just thought one of those stories was done really well.

[00:24:04] That you get to know these characters.

[00:24:07] Even though the Heist team members don't necessarily feel like more than secondary characters.

[00:24:12] Like I don't think I was emotionally attached to really any of them.

[00:24:15] Or any one of them in particular.

[00:24:16] I just thought like the perspective of you playing with...

[00:24:21] Or as KVess as you investigate and you find.

[00:24:24] And then you eventually recruit them.

[00:24:26] Like those story beats and the pacing there really worked for me.

[00:24:29] And I mean the story...

[00:24:31] It's really KVess' story.

[00:24:32] So I think that's an okay thing.

[00:24:33] I don't think like I found the game lacking narratively.

[00:24:37] Because the secondary characters weren't like super developed.

[00:24:40] Or I didn't love any of them.

[00:24:41] And I'm not going to go make fan art or cosplay in any of them.

[00:24:45] Right?

[00:24:46] But I just like how the story focused on KVess.

[00:24:49] And what she's doing.

[00:24:50] What she's trying to get out of this heist.

[00:24:51] And each step of the way it really felt like an adventure.

[00:24:54] It really felt like you were just going on KVess' adventure.

[00:24:57] As she is learning and growing as a criminal.

[00:25:01] Or as somebody...

[00:25:02] As a thief in this underbelly.

[00:25:04] Under the height of like imperial rule in the Star Wars galaxy.

[00:25:08] So I thought like KVess was a great vehicle to tell the story.

[00:25:11] I thought it was the right decision to really focus on her.

[00:25:14] And she had a lot of opportunities to grow as a character.

[00:25:17] To just kind of learn and explore what the Star Wars universe is.

[00:25:21] You know for her.

[00:25:21] Because this is somebody who has been on Canto Bight her whole life.

[00:25:24] She doesn't really know these planets.

[00:25:25] And so I just thought it was a fun adventure.

[00:25:27] And she was a good person to follow along on this journey.

[00:25:31] Like it worked.

[00:25:31] I don't think I find any major faults in what happened.

[00:25:35] Yeah.

[00:25:36] I mean I...

[00:25:36] Yeah.

[00:25:37] I think I largely agree.

[00:25:40] I mean I enjoyed it.

[00:25:41] I like I enjoyed my time.

[00:25:43] I felt like I was sort of looking for something.

[00:25:45] Maybe while I was playing.

[00:25:47] I was maybe looking for something like a little bit juicier.

[00:25:51] Maybe for lack of a better term.

[00:25:52] Like I don't know.

[00:25:54] And maybe that's just mismanaged expectations.

[00:25:55] Because every video game nowadays.

[00:25:59] Wants to be like The Last of Us.

[00:26:02] Where they want to shock and awe you.

[00:26:05] Or they want to have like a gray protagonist.

[00:26:07] That's like he's good.

[00:26:09] But he's dealing with the bad.

[00:26:11] You know.

[00:26:11] Jedi Survivor.

[00:26:13] Yeah.

[00:26:14] Yeah.

[00:26:14] Like 100%.

[00:26:15] Which I love Jedi Survivor.

[00:26:17] Don't get me wrong.

[00:26:18] Like I really liked it.

[00:26:19] But maybe this was just a case of like mismanaged expectations.

[00:26:22] Which is I think partly.

[00:26:25] What spilt over into the industry reception.

[00:26:29] Was it was like well it's not Jedi Survivor.

[00:26:31] It's like a different thing.

[00:26:33] Like what is it.

[00:26:35] And maybe.

[00:26:37] I don't know.

[00:26:38] Maybe it just didn't quite do enough.

[00:26:40] From a narrative standpoint to.

[00:26:42] Stand out or.

[00:26:44] I don't know.

[00:26:45] Like you know.

[00:26:46] It didn't give you decisions or options or whatever.

[00:26:49] I don't know.

[00:26:49] John what are your thoughts?

[00:26:51] Well I think that.

[00:26:52] You know Jedi Survivor.

[00:26:54] Definitely more of a modern story.

[00:26:55] Like it relates more closely to something like Andor.

[00:26:58] Like a modern day contemporary Star Wars spinoff.

[00:27:01] Star Wars Outlaws does not.

[00:27:02] It's pure and simple.

[00:27:04] You know the original roots of Star Wars.

[00:27:05] It's a kid movie in space.

[00:27:07] There are people that are.

[00:27:09] Right.

[00:27:09] Swinging over chasms.

[00:27:11] And saving people from high security prisons.

[00:27:14] And racing away in their ship.

[00:27:16] With guns blazing all around them.

[00:27:18] They take people out in one shot.

[00:27:20] They.

[00:27:21] You know.

[00:27:21] They have these little close friendships.

[00:27:23] There are laughs.

[00:27:24] And there's action.

[00:27:25] And.

[00:27:26] I think to its credit.

[00:27:28] Star Wars Outlaws manages to capture some of that original.

[00:27:32] Like just joy of it all.

[00:27:33] And it's not trying to be the last of us.

[00:27:35] It's just like a simple romp.

[00:27:37] In which you play this gangster who's trying to get out of a bad situation.

[00:27:40] And make good.

[00:27:42] And.

[00:27:43] And as far as I was concerned.

[00:27:44] That hit the spot quite nicely.

[00:27:46] I think the tone was really nicely set.

[00:27:48] And the fact that they set it.

[00:27:50] Between.

[00:27:51] Is it between Empire.

[00:27:53] Is it between Star Wars and Empire.

[00:27:54] Or between Empire and Jedi.

[00:27:55] It's somewhere in the original trilogy.

[00:27:57] Five and six.

[00:27:58] Empire and Jedi.

[00:27:59] Yeah.

[00:27:59] And so.

[00:28:00] It looks like those films.

[00:28:02] It looks like we remember those films.

[00:28:03] It's the same kind of vehicles.

[00:28:04] It's the same kind of buildings.

[00:28:06] It's the same kind of empire that we remember from the original Star Wars.

[00:28:09] As Jake was saying.

[00:28:11] At its peak.

[00:28:12] And so it just hits all of those old spots.

[00:28:14] Of like.

[00:28:14] This is.

[00:28:14] This is.

[00:28:15] This is Star Wars.

[00:28:16] This is that good Star Wars stuff.

[00:28:17] And so for me that worked.

[00:28:19] But I think that.

[00:28:21] Interestingly.

[00:28:22] I mean.

[00:28:22] This.

[00:28:22] What I'm about to say.

[00:28:24] Leans slightly into the next category that you have here.

[00:28:26] But some of the more interesting story moments to me.

[00:28:29] Weren't actually.

[00:28:30] The main story.

[00:28:32] So in this game.

[00:28:33] Like.

[00:28:33] Between these plot beats.

[00:28:35] Where you have to go and find these guys.

[00:28:37] To assemble your crew.

[00:28:37] Your oceans.

[00:28:39] Five.

[00:28:39] Or whatever it is.

[00:28:40] To go and do the big job.

[00:28:42] You are.

[00:28:43] Caught up in a whole bunch of stuff.

[00:28:46] And I think that the whole bunch of stuff you get caught up in.

[00:28:48] Is genuinely different from player to player.

[00:28:51] Like some of the big story.

[00:28:53] Memories that I will have of this game.

[00:28:55] Are that I screwed over the pikes really badly.

[00:28:57] At some point.

[00:28:58] And they all hated me.

[00:29:00] And then I had to get into a pike stronghold.

[00:29:03] To get some information.

[00:29:04] That was going to lead me to the next guy or whatever.

[00:29:07] And that was a big problem.

[00:29:09] It was like.

[00:29:09] Oh shit.

[00:29:09] I'm cave S.

[00:29:10] The pikes hate me.

[00:29:11] What am I going to do about this?

[00:29:12] And the next hour of gameplay.

[00:29:14] Was me trying to get into the good books of the pike syndicate.

[00:29:17] By doing jobs for them.

[00:29:19] By trying to find deal brokers.

[00:29:22] Who had a pike job for me.

[00:29:24] But independent deal brokers.

[00:29:25] Because the pikes wouldn't give me shit.

[00:29:27] Because they hated me.

[00:29:28] And so I spent this like hour.

[00:29:30] Just being a rogue in the Star Wars universe.

[00:29:32] Going from place to place.

[00:29:33] Getting to scrapes.

[00:29:34] Doing jobs.

[00:29:35] Trying to steal data from imperial bases.

[00:29:39] So that I could sell it to pikes.

[00:29:40] And the pikes would like me more.

[00:29:42] And I was like.

[00:29:42] I just wrote.

[00:29:43] Like this game.

[00:29:44] The systems that this game has.

[00:29:45] With the syndicates.

[00:29:47] And with the jobs.

[00:29:48] And with the contracts.

[00:29:49] And with all of the different ways.

[00:29:50] That you can manage your affinity with each syndicate.

[00:29:53] Created enough of a space.

[00:29:55] Where I could write my own story as cave S.

[00:29:57] And I felt like that happened several times throughout my playthrough.

[00:30:00] That there's a chapter of cave S's life in my head.

[00:30:03] Where she was on the skids with the pikes.

[00:30:06] And she had to go and work for everyone.

[00:30:07] There's another one later on.

[00:30:08] Where I was like.

[00:30:09] I really want to get in good with the huts right now.

[00:30:11] It's more of a self-guided personal decision.

[00:30:13] Because there's good outfits you can get.

[00:30:16] If you become best friends with the huts.

[00:30:17] And so I was like.

[00:30:18] I'm going to spend the next hour of game.

[00:30:20] Just trying to become the huts number one guy.

[00:30:24] And that was like an hour.

[00:30:25] It felt like it had a story.

[00:30:26] It felt like it had an arc.

[00:30:27] And I think that's actually very impressive.

[00:30:29] That's like immersive sim level.

[00:30:33] It's clicking together in this really cool way.

[00:30:35] To support self-guided narrative.

[00:30:37] And emergent narrative.

[00:30:38] Which is impressive.

[00:30:39] And not something that people have talked about.

[00:30:41] In relation to this game.

[00:30:44] Yeah.

[00:30:44] 100% agree.

[00:30:45] Jake.

[00:30:45] I think this is a good transition.

[00:30:47] But any last thoughts on.

[00:30:48] Purely on the narrative.

[00:30:49] Before we kind of meld into design conversation.

[00:30:52] I mean.

[00:30:53] Do we want to talk spoilers now?

[00:30:55] Or do we want to hold off?

[00:30:58] Maybe we hold off.

[00:30:59] Like till the end.

[00:31:00] Does that work?

[00:31:01] That's fine.

[00:31:01] Yeah.

[00:31:02] So.

[00:31:03] Also kind of transitioning into game design.

[00:31:06] This is an open world game.

[00:31:07] Right?

[00:31:07] This is what it's being sold and packaged as.

[00:31:09] And John.

[00:31:09] I really appreciate your comments here.

[00:31:11] Because.

[00:31:12] I.

[00:31:12] I find that.

[00:31:14] Open world games.

[00:31:15] Sometimes the narrative can be really hard to balance.

[00:31:18] And one of my favorite go-to examples.

[00:31:20] And this is a game.

[00:31:21] I'm sorry.

[00:31:22] Pre-order bonus podcast listeners.

[00:31:24] You'll have to just.

[00:31:25] Accept my apology here.

[00:31:27] I don't know how this happened.

[00:31:28] But.

[00:31:29] Cameron and I like Breath of the Wild.

[00:31:31] Yet.

[00:31:31] Very few people in our discord seem to agree with that.

[00:31:34] So just.

[00:31:34] I'm just apologizing now.

[00:31:36] That I'm going to bring up Breath of the Wild.

[00:31:37] But maybe this is in your favor.

[00:31:39] How dare you.

[00:31:41] Breath of the Wild starts.

[00:31:43] With a super urgent quest.

[00:31:44] To defeat Ganon.

[00:31:46] And there have been thousands of memes.

[00:31:48] That have circulated.

[00:31:49] That come from this.

[00:31:50] Link gets this directive to defeat Ganon.

[00:31:52] Poor Princess Zelda.

[00:31:53] Has been holding him off for a hundred years.

[00:31:55] And what does Link do?

[00:31:56] He goes chopped.

[00:31:57] He chops down 500 apple trees.

[00:31:59] To collect 5,000 apples.

[00:32:01] Right?

[00:32:01] And so there's a bit of dissonance in there.

[00:32:03] Like with what's happening narratively.

[00:32:05] And what is really urgent.

[00:32:07] And what I think is really fantastic.

[00:32:08] Is what you're getting at here John.

[00:32:10] Is that like.

[00:32:10] A huge part of the narrative of this game.

[00:32:13] And a huge part of the open world design.

[00:32:15] Is this.

[00:32:16] This system.

[00:32:17] Of are you in favor.

[00:32:19] Or not.

[00:32:19] With these different syndicate factions.

[00:32:21] And how it has significant consequences.

[00:32:24] When you're doing certain missions.

[00:32:26] When you're trying to get certain gear.

[00:32:28] Etc.

[00:32:29] And so I just think that.

[00:32:30] For as much as people disliked.

[00:32:33] Or focused on the weaknesses.

[00:32:34] Of Star Wars Outlaws.

[00:32:36] This was a massive strength.

[00:32:38] It was a massive strength.

[00:32:39] To be able to just.

[00:32:40] Really mold.

[00:32:41] A narrative.

[00:32:42] Together.

[00:32:43] Like of who KVS is.

[00:32:44] And what she's doing.

[00:32:45] In my playthrough.

[00:32:46] I managed to keep like.

[00:32:48] Excellent standing.

[00:32:48] With Crimson Dawn.

[00:32:50] And early on.

[00:32:51] I allied with them.

[00:32:52] And that really.

[00:32:52] It guided a lot of my decisions.

[00:32:55] The pikes also hated my guts.

[00:32:57] And the huts were a bit.

[00:32:59] They were a bit lukewarm.

[00:33:01] But same thing.

[00:33:02] Like.

[00:33:02] At one point.

[00:33:03] I was like.

[00:33:03] Nah.

[00:33:04] I kind of need the huts.

[00:33:05] To like me right now.

[00:33:06] And so I would splinter off.

[00:33:07] And do some missions.

[00:33:09] For them.

[00:33:10] And something that I found.

[00:33:11] That was really fascinating.

[00:33:12] Is that if you do.

[00:33:13] Like a side mission.

[00:33:15] Like a hundred percent stealth.

[00:33:16] For example.

[00:33:17] If I'm doing a mission.

[00:33:18] For the huts.

[00:33:19] That is steal something.

[00:33:20] From Crimson Dawn.

[00:33:21] But I do that.

[00:33:22] Without alerting Crimson Dawn.

[00:33:24] A single time.

[00:33:24] My standing with Crimson Dawn.

[00:33:26] Won't change.

[00:33:27] And so.

[00:33:28] It was.

[00:33:28] It was mechanics like that.

[00:33:30] That really got me interested.

[00:33:31] In like.

[00:33:31] Ooh.

[00:33:32] I can really play all sides from here.

[00:33:34] Can't I?

[00:33:35] Right.

[00:33:35] Like if I play this really smartly.

[00:33:37] I can unlock everything.

[00:33:39] And that to me felt like.

[00:33:40] Okay.

[00:33:41] Cave Vest is capable.

[00:33:42] Being a criminal mastermind.

[00:33:43] Playing everybody against themselves.

[00:33:45] All doing it for her own personal gain.

[00:33:48] So I just thought it was really impressive.

[00:33:50] How they were.

[00:33:51] How they designed.

[00:33:52] And implemented the different like.

[00:33:54] Syndicate system in the game.

[00:33:55] So you could do things like that.

[00:33:58] Yeah.

[00:33:58] Can I add actually.

[00:33:59] Like another thing that I really liked.

[00:34:01] There's so much good stuff in this game.

[00:34:04] They did things.

[00:34:04] There's so well.

[00:34:05] Is that sometimes.

[00:34:06] At the end of a mission.

[00:34:08] ND5 will radio you.

[00:34:10] And you'll say.

[00:34:11] Okay.

[00:34:11] We've got another offer for this data.

[00:34:12] So you're doing a mission for Crimson Dawn.

[00:34:15] You can either.

[00:34:16] Fulfill the mission.

[00:34:17] And sell them the data.

[00:34:18] Or you can.

[00:34:19] ND5 says you can get more money.

[00:34:21] If we sell it to the huts instead.

[00:34:23] And no matter what you choose.

[00:34:25] Someone's going to go up a lot.

[00:34:26] Someone's going to go down a lot.

[00:34:28] And so it introduces this dynamic system.

[00:34:30] Where you cannot stay.

[00:34:32] In everyone's good books.

[00:34:33] All of the time.

[00:34:34] Although.

[00:34:35] It sounds like we all.

[00:34:36] Probably managed to do pretty well with that.

[00:34:38] Like it's quite forgiving.

[00:34:39] But there were definitely moments.

[00:34:41] Where I was like excellent.

[00:34:42] With the huts.

[00:34:43] And coming up with Crimson Dawn.

[00:34:45] Sold some data to someone.

[00:34:46] One of them dropped down to.

[00:34:48] So bad.

[00:34:49] Like fair.

[00:34:49] They hated what I did.

[00:34:50] And so I had to.

[00:34:51] I couldn't get into their bases.

[00:34:53] I couldn't take their contracts.

[00:34:54] That has story implications.

[00:34:55] That it makes you engage with that system again.

[00:34:57] Later down the line.

[00:34:59] So they kept like shaking it up a little bit.

[00:35:01] Like you're kind of edging up with all these different people.

[00:35:04] You may be prioritizing one syndicate over another.

[00:35:06] For story reasons.

[00:35:07] But sometimes the game will just shake the snow globe.

[00:35:09] And you'll find yourself.

[00:35:11] Suddenly the huts hate you.

[00:35:12] And there's nothing you can do about it.

[00:35:13] And so the game doesn't let you just coast.

[00:35:16] On being a criminal mastermind.

[00:35:17] It's like.

[00:35:18] It does introduce dynamics into it.

[00:35:21] In a way that I thought was impressive.

[00:35:25] Yeah.

[00:35:26] No.

[00:35:26] I definitely think the syndicate system is.

[00:35:28] It's.

[00:35:29] It is well done.

[00:35:31] For sure.

[00:35:31] I think.

[00:35:32] I think.

[00:35:32] Maybe.

[00:35:33] Something I was missing from.

[00:35:35] I.

[00:35:35] I kind of maybe wanted a little bit more of like gangster simulator.

[00:35:39] Maybe just like a teeny bit deeper.

[00:35:41] And I realized like that's not what the game is.

[00:35:42] It's not.

[00:35:43] It's not like a simulation.

[00:35:44] Like a little more GTA.

[00:35:46] Yeah.

[00:35:47] Like it just made me like a teeny bit more like.

[00:35:49] I went full huts.

[00:35:50] And I was just like.

[00:35:51] Screw all the other syndicates.

[00:35:53] I want to like take you guys down.

[00:35:55] They have the best outfits man.

[00:35:56] You got to go.

[00:35:56] You got to max out the huts.

[00:35:58] I was just maxed out.

[00:35:59] I was like.

[00:35:59] I'm just going all huts.

[00:36:00] I want Jabba.

[00:36:01] Jabba.

[00:36:01] Jabba will put me in carbon item.

[00:36:03] I'm not his friend.

[00:36:05] No.

[00:36:05] I just went all in on that.

[00:36:06] I think.

[00:36:07] I think this is like the overarching thing with the design of this game.

[00:36:12] Is that.

[00:36:12] They do everything really really competently and well.

[00:36:17] But I do think.

[00:36:19] I will admit.

[00:36:20] This is like.

[00:36:20] Pairly man.

[00:36:21] My biggest thing.

[00:36:22] They don't do any.

[00:36:24] Maybe one thing like spectacularly well.

[00:36:27] And I think maybe that's.

[00:36:29] And that's okay.

[00:36:30] They don't have to do that.

[00:36:31] I still think this game is great.

[00:36:33] I think I largely agree with you.

[00:36:35] Both of you on like.

[00:36:36] On all these points.

[00:36:37] I do think maybe.

[00:36:39] That's where maybe it just.

[00:36:40] It fell like a teeny bit flat.

[00:36:41] Especially with reviewers.

[00:36:43] Who had to play through the game.

[00:36:45] In.

[00:36:46] Like.

[00:36:46] Three days.

[00:36:48] Because this is a game that demands to be lived in.

[00:36:51] And demands to be like.

[00:36:52] Breathe.

[00:36:53] Like you need to stop and like breathe.

[00:36:54] And just like chill for a minute.

[00:36:56] In this game.

[00:36:57] And that's kind of the way it's designed.

[00:36:59] And so it was an interesting decision for Ubisoft.

[00:37:02] To give reviewers the game like a week before.

[00:37:04] Like keys.

[00:37:05] Because that.

[00:37:05] And it's probably because the game was buggy.

[00:37:07] And it wasn't quite ready.

[00:37:08] And that caused like this massive backlash.

[00:37:10] From a critical standpoint.

[00:37:13] Which is a shame.

[00:37:14] Because if you.

[00:37:15] This is definitely.

[00:37:16] A hundred percent.

[00:37:17] The most.

[00:37:18] Well realized.

[00:37:19] Star Wars.

[00:37:21] Universe.

[00:37:22] Like world.

[00:37:22] Like ever put into an interactive experience.

[00:37:25] Like by far.

[00:37:26] Right.

[00:37:26] If you're a Star Wars fan.

[00:37:28] And somebody who loves Star Wars.

[00:37:29] And you just want to like.

[00:37:30] Be in that world.

[00:37:32] There is nothing.

[00:37:33] That's going to top this.

[00:37:34] From that standpoint.

[00:37:35] I just think.

[00:37:36] In the moment to moment.

[00:37:38] In sort of the.

[00:37:39] Sort of basic.

[00:37:40] Underlying mechanics of gameplay.

[00:37:43] There's just like that.

[00:37:44] Added little teeny bit of extra.

[00:37:46] Maybe 10.

[00:37:47] Maybe 15 percent.

[00:37:48] That I felt was.

[00:37:49] Maybe.

[00:37:50] Kind of sort of missing.

[00:37:51] And again.

[00:37:52] It's just hard to say.

[00:37:53] Like.

[00:37:53] People call this a stealth game.

[00:37:55] I kind of played it as an action game.

[00:37:56] To be honest.

[00:37:57] Like I maximize my action.

[00:37:59] Skill points and stuff.

[00:38:00] Which we'll talk about.

[00:38:01] The whole skill point system.

[00:38:02] In a minute.

[00:38:03] Because I think.

[00:38:03] That's probably the.

[00:38:04] The shining part of this whole game.

[00:38:07] But for me.

[00:38:08] The stealth stuff.

[00:38:10] I thought it was fine.

[00:38:11] People were saying it was like.

[00:38:12] Too unforgiving.

[00:38:12] Or too hard.

[00:38:13] I was like.

[00:38:13] It's fine.

[00:38:14] Like it's.

[00:38:15] It's not bad.

[00:38:17] It's not.

[00:38:17] I hated the stealth sections.

[00:38:19] I hated it.

[00:38:20] I like this game.

[00:38:21] Despite the stealth sections.

[00:38:22] I'm one of those people.

[00:38:23] Who was like.

[00:38:24] Trying to sneak into a base at the start.

[00:38:26] And just failing 10 times.

[00:38:27] Pulling my hair out.

[00:38:28] And being like.

[00:38:29] Oh please.

[00:38:29] Please let me just get through this.

[00:38:31] And I was like that pretty much.

[00:38:32] Throughout the game.

[00:38:32] I was like.

[00:38:33] Oh god.

[00:38:33] Okay.

[00:38:34] We're just going to turn the volume down.

[00:38:35] It's going to open a window.

[00:38:37] I'm just going to play through this stealth bit.

[00:38:38] And get to the next bit.

[00:38:39] And just get through it.

[00:38:41] To that point.

[00:38:41] Like I just.

[00:38:42] I played it as like.

[00:38:43] An action.

[00:38:44] Yeah.

[00:38:44] I just.

[00:38:44] I maximize like.

[00:38:45] I want the.

[00:38:47] I want to be able to.

[00:38:48] Do the.

[00:38:49] The red dead shot.

[00:38:50] On like 19 different stormtroopers at once.

[00:38:52] Like that was how I played the game.

[00:38:54] Which when you get to that level.

[00:38:56] It starts to become a lot more fun.

[00:38:58] Minus the fact that.

[00:38:59] Here's an example where it kind of falls off.

[00:39:01] Right.

[00:39:01] And it kind of.

[00:39:02] Just hits a teeny bit flat.

[00:39:04] The fact that you can pick up all these cool blaster weapons.

[00:39:06] And then you can't keep any of them.

[00:39:08] Right.

[00:39:08] So it's like.

[00:39:09] Why didn't you just commit.

[00:39:10] Just be an action game.

[00:39:12] Just let me pick up the weapons.

[00:39:13] Just carry them.

[00:39:14] And just play it like a third person shooter.

[00:39:16] But then it's like.

[00:39:17] Well we wanted to do that.

[00:39:18] But then we're also like a stealth game.

[00:39:20] So then you have these hiding sessions.

[00:39:22] Which John just alluded to.

[00:39:23] And in the beginning.

[00:39:23] They're super frustrating.

[00:39:24] Because if you fail.

[00:39:26] You go back to a checkpoint.

[00:39:27] It's like the ultimate video game sin.

[00:39:29] I don't understand how designers haven't figured this out.

[00:39:31] This is.

[00:39:31] This is like.

[00:39:33] Crazy.

[00:39:33] Yeah.

[00:39:34] You put people back to a checkpoint.

[00:39:35] And the checkpoint is like way too far back.

[00:39:38] And it's the very beginning of the game.

[00:39:40] And you're saying.

[00:39:41] Oh you need to hide.

[00:39:42] But then you don't really give a clear system.

[00:39:44] Of.

[00:39:45] Oh you're hidden.

[00:39:46] Right.

[00:39:47] Unlike a Metal Gear.

[00:39:48] Or something like that.

[00:39:49] And there are enemies everywhere as well.

[00:39:50] There's like too many.

[00:39:51] Although I hear that they've patched out some of them in the early sections now.

[00:39:54] But you know.

[00:39:55] Yeah.

[00:39:55] They supposedly made that easier.

[00:39:56] I think for all of the praise that I'm layering onto this game for being well designed.

[00:40:01] And I think that for the large part.

[00:40:03] 90% of it is incredibly impressively designed.

[00:40:07] This shouldn't be in the game.

[00:40:09] This like failed stealth back to checkpoint.

[00:40:12] In an open world narrative adventure.

[00:40:14] Where you are KFS.

[00:40:16] And you're inhabiting KFS.

[00:40:17] And it's all about the journey.

[00:40:19] Having this like fucking space invaders.

[00:40:21] Like you died.

[00:40:21] Start again.

[00:40:22] Like in this alien thing.

[00:40:25] Just inserted into the design of the game.

[00:40:27] Is bizarre to me.

[00:40:28] I think it genuinely shouldn't be in there.

[00:40:31] And I'm amazed given the elegance.

[00:40:34] And interlocking nature of a lot of the other systems in the game.

[00:40:36] I'm amazed that that made it to the final product.

[00:40:41] Yeah.

[00:40:41] I think my one criticism is mostly echoing what you two have said.

[00:40:45] But it's this wonderful open world game.

[00:40:48] And it has a lot of fantastic systems in it.

[00:40:51] And it just felt like it was juggling one too many balls.

[00:40:55] One too many spinning plates.

[00:40:57] Doing stealth and action.

[00:40:59] Like in the same kind of capacity.

[00:41:01] I agree that like early on in the game.

[00:41:04] The stealth is way more punishing.

[00:41:05] Um I personally I don't know.

[00:41:08] I didn't have too many hangups with it.

[00:41:11] But I was really surprised that there was not a quick save system either.

[00:41:16] Um because with a game like this.

[00:41:19] Especially in the early like obligatory stealth sections.

[00:41:21] Where you get sent way the heck back.

[00:41:23] And you're still trying to figure out exactly how enemies are going to see you.

[00:41:27] And what the best type of where to hide best.

[00:41:30] You know what I mean?

[00:41:32] But there wasn't just like a quick save.

[00:41:33] I honestly think that the stealth would have been less painful.

[00:41:36] If there was just like a quick save.

[00:41:38] And I'm like okay.

[00:41:39] I'm going to experiment with this little route right here.

[00:41:41] If I send Nyx to do this.

[00:41:43] And then I go do this thing.

[00:41:44] Is this going to work?

[00:41:45] So I can learn how the stealth operates in this game.

[00:41:49] And instead it's like you would try something.

[00:41:51] And it's like all right.

[00:41:52] Kick you back to the start.

[00:41:53] And you're like oh crap.

[00:41:54] What did I do the last time to get to the point where.

[00:41:56] Now I have to come up with a new strategy.

[00:41:58] So just too much leg work.

[00:42:00] But I think like mechanically.

[00:42:02] Even though it's not like the stealth isn't super impressive.

[00:42:05] It's not innovative by any means.

[00:42:07] I think a quick save would have just alleviated a lot of that pressure.

[00:42:10] And a lot of that pain.

[00:42:12] But on the flip side.

[00:42:14] I actually really enjoyed the action.

[00:42:15] Again the action side.

[00:42:16] Like just shooting everybody with a blaster.

[00:42:18] And I ended up like.

[00:42:19] I ended up using smoke bombs.

[00:42:22] Way more than I ever would in most games.

[00:42:24] Interesting.

[00:42:24] I thought that stuff not super innovative.

[00:42:26] But pretty fun.

[00:42:28] And not a lot of hiccups on that side.

[00:42:29] Interesting compared to Assassin's Creed Odyssey.

[00:42:31] You know.

[00:42:32] Because you know in Odyssey they were trying to.

[00:42:35] Reconcile.

[00:42:37] Action adventure gameplay.

[00:42:38] That everyone seemed to want.

[00:42:40] With the stealth roots.

[00:42:42] Of the Assassin's Creed series.

[00:42:44] And they made it so that you could go loud.

[00:42:46] At any time if you want to.

[00:42:48] But sometimes that is kind of a death sentence.

[00:42:51] In the early game.

[00:42:51] So you kind of don't want to.

[00:42:52] But you can reattain stealth.

[00:42:54] You can be in a fort.

[00:42:55] And people can rush you.

[00:42:57] And you can just.

[00:42:58] You know clamber away across some roofs.

[00:43:00] And hide in a bush.

[00:43:00] And then they're all just looking around like idiots.

[00:43:02] Like they don't know where you've gone.

[00:43:03] But for some reason in this game.

[00:43:05] They had the fail state.

[00:43:08] Which is just such a strange choice.

[00:43:10] That specific choice.

[00:43:11] Like if you.

[00:43:12] Yeah very bizarre.

[00:43:13] I mean if you get.

[00:43:14] There's one slightly okay one.

[00:43:16] Where you get caught.

[00:43:17] And they just throw you out.

[00:43:18] And they say don't come back.

[00:43:21] And that's fine.

[00:43:22] That's like fine.

[00:43:23] It's like the game continues.

[00:43:23] K got caught.

[00:43:24] Her life goes on.

[00:43:25] But this like you failed.

[00:43:27] And actually just reversing time.

[00:43:29] Like a cassette tape.

[00:43:30] Just going.

[00:43:31] Back to the start again.

[00:43:32] It just doesn't fit with anything else in here.

[00:43:35] So I wonder why they put that fail state in there.

[00:43:38] That's the crunch point for me I think.

[00:43:40] Like if there's stealth that you can fail.

[00:43:42] And you get thrown out of a compound.

[00:43:44] That's fine.

[00:43:44] But the time rewind video game fail state.

[00:43:48] Is just the bizarre one for me.

[00:43:52] Yeah they even could have added.

[00:43:53] Something as simple as like.

[00:43:55] Some games do like a rewind mechanic.

[00:43:57] Right.

[00:43:58] Where like you fail.

[00:43:59] And then it just like goes immediately back.

[00:44:01] To right before where you failed.

[00:44:02] I've seen that before.

[00:44:03] And like a lot of stealth games.

[00:44:04] That could have worked.

[00:44:06] I don't know.

[00:44:07] You know.

[00:44:07] Like it just.

[00:44:07] I think it was a.

[00:44:09] It feels like potentially a scoping issue.

[00:44:12] I mean this game is pretty huge.

[00:44:14] There is a lot going on.

[00:44:15] It is.

[00:44:16] It is.

[00:44:18] Beautiful.

[00:44:19] I mean this game is.

[00:44:21] This is a visual masterpiece in my opinion.

[00:44:24] I played this on PC.

[00:44:26] With like ray tracing and all the bells and whistles.

[00:44:28] And I was blown away.

[00:44:30] Like a lot.

[00:44:31] I mean I was like really.

[00:44:33] This is like a pure like Star Wars power fantasy.

[00:44:36] Um.

[00:44:37] I just.

[00:44:39] It felt like a little bit of a scoping issue.

[00:44:41] Where it's like they had all these pieces.

[00:44:42] But they just didn't.

[00:44:44] They just like.

[00:44:45] Didn't quite come together.

[00:44:46] Maybe the action was a little bit better than the stealth.

[00:44:49] But they felt like maybe this was.

[00:44:50] Stealth was at the core of the game.

[00:44:52] Yeah.

[00:44:52] And they had these kind of weird decisions.

[00:44:54] I don't know.

[00:44:55] I don't know quite what happened.

[00:44:56] But it was like so close to being.

[00:45:01] Like amazing.

[00:45:02] Right.

[00:45:02] Like that for me.

[00:45:03] It was so close to being like amazing.

[00:45:04] And I think it just fell just short for me personally.

[00:45:08] All right.

[00:45:08] I played on Series X.

[00:45:10] And visually this game was a huge mixed bag.

[00:45:14] Yeah dude.

[00:45:15] PC bro.

[00:45:16] Like.

[00:45:17] It's.

[00:45:18] PC it's crazy.

[00:45:19] It was like jaw dropping.

[00:45:21] I was Series X as well actually.

[00:45:22] And the compromise that we got.

[00:45:24] We kept ray tracing in all modes.

[00:45:26] Um.

[00:45:27] But we.

[00:45:29] Had.

[00:45:29] The compromise was resolution.

[00:45:32] Um.

[00:45:32] And so.

[00:45:33] Even though the light was beautiful.

[00:45:35] Like.

[00:45:35] It had dynamic resolution.

[00:45:37] And often.

[00:45:38] KVS's hair just sort of turned into this blur of pixels at times.

[00:45:41] And like.

[00:45:42] Yeah.

[00:45:42] The water reflection.

[00:45:43] The reflections.

[00:45:44] On performance modes.

[00:45:46] Are horrific.

[00:45:47] It's like pixel junk.

[00:45:49] Like.

[00:45:49] Just this kind of messy mash of like.

[00:45:51] Strange conflicting.

[00:45:53] Soft data.

[00:45:54] That you're looking at.

[00:45:55] Um.

[00:45:55] But.

[00:45:56] But for the most part.

[00:45:56] I was very very visually impressed by it.

[00:45:58] I love the.

[00:45:59] I think the visual design helped a lot.

[00:46:01] Um.

[00:46:02] They did really good stuff with the vistas.

[00:46:03] And sight lines across planets.

[00:46:05] I really liked the.

[00:46:06] Um.

[00:46:07] I really liked the character they gave the planets.

[00:46:09] Like the first planet you go onto.

[00:46:11] Which is the windy planet.

[00:46:12] And everyone's hair is always blowing.

[00:46:14] The trees are shaying.

[00:46:15] So good.

[00:46:15] The um.

[00:46:16] Everything's shaking all the time.

[00:46:17] You really get this feeling of this world buffeted by wind.

[00:46:20] But I am quite.

[00:46:21] Um.

[00:46:22] Jealous of your experience Cameron.

[00:46:23] If you.

[00:46:24] Managed to get all of the beautiful light that they did.

[00:46:26] And all the beautiful design that they did.

[00:46:28] But you also managed to keep the resolution.

[00:46:29] I'm actually just very jealous of that.

[00:46:31] Because it did.

[00:46:32] It was a slightly compromised version.

[00:46:34] I thought that.

[00:46:35] Digital Foundry were going to tear this game.

[00:46:38] To shreds.

[00:46:39] When I was playing it pre-release.

[00:46:41] Um.

[00:46:41] And then they put their video out.

[00:46:42] And they were like.

[00:46:43] You know what?

[00:46:43] They were just so happy.

[00:46:45] That it has universal ray tracing.

[00:46:47] That they kind of gave it a pass.

[00:46:48] And I was shocked.

[00:46:49] I was like.

[00:46:50] You're not going to talk about the resolution thing?

[00:46:51] Like guys.

[00:46:53] I'm not a ray tracing stan.

[00:46:54] I don't.

[00:46:54] I don't understand the obsession with ray.

[00:46:56] I get.

[00:46:57] I get what it's.

[00:46:58] It's like.

[00:46:59] There's global illumination.

[00:47:00] And like ray tracing.

[00:47:01] And like.

[00:47:02] Secondary light bouncing.

[00:47:03] Right.

[00:47:03] So it's like the colors of the environment.

[00:47:05] On you and stuff.

[00:47:06] It's like.

[00:47:07] Anyway.

[00:47:08] I.

[00:47:09] I think.

[00:47:11] Yeah.

[00:47:11] I mean.

[00:47:11] This is a whole different conversation.

[00:47:13] But like.

[00:47:13] I do get disappointed.

[00:47:14] When consoles.

[00:47:15] Are not able to give.

[00:47:17] The experience.

[00:47:18] That I think like.

[00:47:19] They should be able to give.

[00:47:20] And I.

[00:47:20] I get that.

[00:47:21] These.

[00:47:21] These developers.

[00:47:22] They want to push the graphics.

[00:47:23] And they want to have like.

[00:47:24] Crazy art.

[00:47:25] But then.

[00:47:25] The only people who actually.

[00:47:26] Get to experience.

[00:47:27] Like the true breadth.

[00:47:28] And depth.

[00:47:29] Of what you created.

[00:47:30] Are people with the most expensive PCs.

[00:47:32] Out there.

[00:47:32] And that's if the version works.

[00:47:34] If the PC version works.

[00:47:35] Right.

[00:47:35] Because they're often like.

[00:47:36] Yes.

[00:47:36] A hundred percent.

[00:47:37] I would like to see your best screenshots.

[00:47:39] From the game actually.

[00:47:40] Just out of curiosity.

[00:47:42] Even I'm only.

[00:47:43] I'm only on a 3080.

[00:47:44] So I wasn't even like.

[00:47:45] Some people.

[00:47:46] The people.

[00:47:46] The folks with like 4090s.

[00:47:47] Are kind of.

[00:47:49] Ridiculous.

[00:47:49] Even I was playing with like.

[00:47:51] DLSS.

[00:47:52] Pretty much.

[00:47:53] I think I played on quality mode.

[00:47:55] But.

[00:47:56] If I can grab a screenshot.

[00:47:58] I think that takes us.

[00:47:59] Hold on.

[00:47:59] One last thing.

[00:48:00] We have to get to this.

[00:48:01] Yes.

[00:48:01] Jake.

[00:48:02] Hit your.

[00:48:02] Hit your.

[00:48:02] What other final points.

[00:48:03] Do we have on design?

[00:48:04] Because I want to hit.

[00:48:05] Impact on the industry.

[00:48:06] We got to talk about the abilities.

[00:48:08] This.

[00:48:08] This.

[00:48:09] Like.

[00:48:09] Skills.

[00:48:10] This.

[00:48:10] This was another aspect.

[00:48:12] Where.

[00:48:12] I'm playing the game.

[00:48:14] And I'm checking the social media feed.

[00:48:15] And I felt like.

[00:48:16] Nobody was addressing this.

[00:48:18] And.

[00:48:18] A hundred percent.

[00:48:19] Which was such a shame.

[00:48:19] And.

[00:48:20] So instead of having like.

[00:48:21] Your.

[00:48:22] Classic.

[00:48:23] RPG.

[00:48:23] Or RPG.

[00:48:24] Like skill tree.

[00:48:25] Where you get points.

[00:48:26] And then you put points.

[00:48:27] Into different.

[00:48:28] You know.

[00:48:28] Areas.

[00:48:29] You would.

[00:48:30] Come across different.

[00:48:31] NPCs.

[00:48:31] Who.

[00:48:32] Essentially would.

[00:48:34] I don't know.

[00:48:35] They wouldn't even like.

[00:48:35] Give out side quests.

[00:48:37] Traditionally.

[00:48:37] But basically.

[00:48:38] Once you unlock them.

[00:48:39] If you meet certain requirements.

[00:48:41] You can kind of cash in.

[00:48:42] And get different skills.

[00:48:44] Right.

[00:48:45] It's like mentors.

[00:48:46] Right.

[00:48:46] It's like experts.

[00:48:47] That are going to show you their ways.

[00:48:48] Yeah.

[00:48:50] And honestly.

[00:48:50] I loved it.

[00:48:51] Because.

[00:48:52] It worked.

[00:48:52] If.

[00:48:53] It just like.

[00:48:54] Flowed really well.

[00:48:55] With an open world design.

[00:48:57] I often found myself.

[00:48:58] Like.

[00:48:58] I knew one of these NPCs.

[00:49:00] And I was like.

[00:49:00] Oh my gosh.

[00:49:01] I've done two out of three of the objectives.

[00:49:02] And I just got to do this thing.

[00:49:04] Great.

[00:49:04] Let me find a way to do that.

[00:49:06] And then.

[00:49:06] I can do it.

[00:49:07] Like.

[00:49:07] It just felt like it.

[00:49:09] Was not out of the way.

[00:49:11] To do.

[00:49:11] But it was.

[00:49:12] Incentivizing enough.

[00:49:13] For me to do more.

[00:49:14] Than just the main quest of the game.

[00:49:16] I loved this design.

[00:49:17] It just felt like.

[00:49:18] Oh.

[00:49:19] Let me just go spend 15 minutes.

[00:49:20] Doing this thing.

[00:49:21] And then I'll have this new skill unlocked.

[00:49:23] And then I can play the game in this way.

[00:49:25] It worked great.

[00:49:25] Yeah.

[00:49:26] It's a huge upgrade on an XP system.

[00:49:28] An XP system.

[00:49:29] Which is the standard for this.

[00:49:31] Is a blunt instrument.

[00:49:33] It's just.

[00:49:33] You play the game.

[00:49:34] You get XP.

[00:49:35] And then eventually.

[00:49:36] There's like little.

[00:49:36] Like notches.

[00:49:38] And every time you pass a notch.

[00:49:39] You can do something new.

[00:49:41] And this is a huge deepening of that.

[00:49:43] It's like.

[00:49:43] If you're going to try and learn how to.

[00:49:44] To talk your way out of trouble.

[00:49:47] Then you have to.

[00:49:48] Do something that relates to that.

[00:49:49] In gameplay terms.

[00:49:50] Repeatedly.

[00:49:51] So it's actually as if.

[00:49:52] KVS is practicing.

[00:49:53] Out in the world.

[00:49:54] And improving at stuff.

[00:49:56] It's just such a big upgrade.

[00:49:57] On an.

[00:49:58] Unbulent instrument.

[00:49:58] XP system.

[00:49:59] To have to.

[00:50:00] Engage with the skills at hand.

[00:50:02] To improve.

[00:50:03] And it means that.

[00:50:04] It felt like it plugged into.

[00:50:06] The shaping of K's character.

[00:50:07] As well.

[00:50:08] It's like how you're role playing K.

[00:50:09] Is she going all the way.

[00:50:11] With like being a fast talking.

[00:50:13] Stealthy person.

[00:50:14] Pull out as an action hero.

[00:50:16] And like you get to choose.

[00:50:17] Which eggs you're.

[00:50:17] You're putting the.

[00:50:18] You know.

[00:50:19] Where you're putting your eggs.

[00:50:20] In which basket.

[00:50:21] Well.

[00:50:21] That's a weird way to say that.

[00:50:22] But you know what I mean.

[00:50:23] It's like.

[00:50:23] Yeah.

[00:50:24] You get to choose.

[00:50:24] What kind of K you have.

[00:50:26] And the skills are given to you.

[00:50:27] By practice.

[00:50:29] A little bit like life.

[00:50:31] I'm glad you brought that up Jake.

[00:50:33] Because I forgot.

[00:50:34] We couldn't fail to mention.

[00:50:36] This system.

[00:50:37] Which yeah.

[00:50:37] I just love that it was like.

[00:50:40] To your point John.

[00:50:42] I love that it was not an XP system.

[00:50:43] I didn't have to like.

[00:50:45] Think about like an XP bar.

[00:50:47] Or having a skill point.

[00:50:49] That I need to go spend.

[00:50:50] It was just like hey.

[00:50:51] Here's some different mechanics.

[00:50:52] In the game.

[00:50:53] It encourages.

[00:50:54] It encourages you to go.

[00:50:56] And engage with the systems.

[00:50:58] Of the game.

[00:50:58] In different ways.

[00:50:59] That maybe you hadn't.

[00:51:00] Thought about before.

[00:51:02] It encourages you to use.

[00:51:03] Like different abilities.

[00:51:04] And to go out.

[00:51:05] And do different things.

[00:51:06] And then it gives you.

[00:51:07] The incentive of getting.

[00:51:08] Like that new ability.

[00:51:09] Right.

[00:51:10] Yeah.

[00:51:10] This is a brilliant system.

[00:51:11] I totally agree Jake.

[00:51:12] No one brought this up.

[00:51:13] And I was like.

[00:51:14] Dude.

[00:51:14] Isn't like.

[00:51:15] All these games.

[00:51:16] Are trying to figure out.

[00:51:17] All these games have like.

[00:51:18] Shoehorned in.

[00:51:19] Action RPG.

[00:51:21] Leveling systems.

[00:51:21] And are trying to figure out.

[00:51:22] Interesting ways.

[00:51:23] To change that.

[00:51:24] And here's a game.

[00:51:24] That actually did it.

[00:51:25] And no one talked about it.

[00:51:26] Yeah.

[00:51:26] Absolutely.

[00:51:27] Such a relief.

[00:51:28] That's not a goddamn souls like.

[00:51:30] They actually came up with something else.

[00:51:32] Whoa.

[00:51:33] Whoa.

[00:51:34] Whoa.

[00:51:35] John.

[00:51:36] Be careful here.

[00:51:37] We got.

[00:51:38] Jake is.

[00:51:39] Jake.

[00:51:40] I'm already offended.

[00:51:41] Yeah.

[00:51:42] Leave call.

[00:51:44] No.

[00:51:44] I agree.

[00:51:45] I mean.

[00:51:45] Tossing out the XP system.

[00:51:47] And tossing out the.

[00:51:48] The level.

[00:51:49] You know.

[00:51:50] The number floating over enemies heads.

[00:51:52] In terms of what their.

[00:51:53] Level is.

[00:51:54] Dictating how difficult they are.

[00:51:55] And instead.

[00:51:56] Just kind of slowly.

[00:51:57] Introducing just more and more difficult.

[00:51:59] And a variety of enemies.

[00:52:02] Like.

[00:52:02] Like a massive variety.

[00:52:03] Of enemy types.

[00:52:05] However.

[00:52:05] They were like.

[00:52:06] Introduced.

[00:52:07] In such a way.

[00:52:07] That I felt like.

[00:52:08] I was constantly having to adapt.

[00:52:10] Or think creatively.

[00:52:11] Of how I was going to approach.

[00:52:12] Certain scenarios.

[00:52:13] Like.

[00:52:14] I'm thinking of.

[00:52:15] Specific missions.

[00:52:16] On one of the planets.

[00:52:17] When I was getting towards the end of the game.

[00:52:18] And I was like.

[00:52:18] Oh.

[00:52:19] I'm seeing a lot more of this.

[00:52:20] Maybe I need to do this with my blaster configuration.

[00:52:23] It's going to help me a lot more.

[00:52:24] If I do this.

[00:52:25] Because I'm suddenly coming up with this type.

[00:52:28] Upcoming up against these enemies here.

[00:52:29] Did you guys get chased by the death troopers?Q.

[00:52:32] Yes.

[00:52:35] Yeah.

[00:52:35] I just.

[00:52:36] I went to

[00:52:36] full like. Commando mode

[00:52:37] at the end. And just tried

[00:52:38] to take on as many death troopers as possible. Same.

[00:52:42] I stealthed my way through the majority of the game.

[00:52:45] But whenever I was up against the empire.

[00:52:46] Guns blazing dude.

[00:52:47] I just killed.

[00:52:48] I just.

[00:52:50] Killed as many as I could.

[00:52:51] Full Rambo.

[00:52:52] Yeah.

[00:52:53] That's the Star Wars fantasy man.

[00:52:54] You take out the storm troopers with one hit.

[00:52:56] And yet you can somehow take 20.

[00:52:58] And still limp away victorious.

[00:53:01] 100%.

[00:53:01] I've got another little design thing I want to talk about.

[00:53:03] Before we leap out of this section.

[00:53:04] If it's alright.

[00:53:05] It's Nyx.

[00:53:06] You know like.

[00:53:07] A lot of games have a little companion.

[00:53:08] A little buddy.

[00:53:09] Um.

[00:53:10] And when I first saw this one.

[00:53:11] I was skeptical.

[00:53:12] I was like.

[00:53:12] This is um.

[00:53:13] Going to be like a little fairy gremlin.

[00:53:15] That chases me around.

[00:53:16] Whatever.

[00:53:16] Um.

[00:53:17] But the way that Nyx was woven into the gameplay.

[00:53:19] I thought was actually really cool.

[00:53:21] Um.

[00:53:22] You can use Nyx to.

[00:53:24] I think that.

[00:53:24] Some of the stuff that impressed me was.

[00:53:26] Um.

[00:53:26] Trying to solve a simple puzzle.

[00:53:28] Of getting into a ruined cantina.

[00:53:30] Just during exploration.

[00:53:32] Um.

[00:53:32] Look inside.

[00:53:33] Looking for a switch.

[00:53:34] Can't find one.

[00:53:34] Scanning the environment.

[00:53:36] Can't find the way.

[00:53:37] And eventually I'm like.

[00:53:38] Oh yeah.

[00:53:38] Nyx.

[00:53:38] So I'll.

[00:53:39] Um.

[00:53:39] Hold down.

[00:53:40] L1.

[00:53:41] And you can see all the things that Nyx can interact with.

[00:53:44] Send him in through a tiny window.

[00:53:45] He gets down to the back of the cantina.

[00:53:47] Flicks a little switch.

[00:53:48] And then suddenly there's like a bulb pops.

[00:53:50] And I can open the door with my energy weapon.

[00:53:52] Um.

[00:53:53] And as the game progresses.

[00:53:54] You use Nyx more and more.

[00:53:55] He was.

[00:53:56] Um.

[00:53:57] Completely woven into the gameplay.

[00:53:59] Um.

[00:54:00] And in the end.

[00:54:01] I was using him to pull pins from people's grenades.

[00:54:03] I was using him to do all sorts.

[00:54:05] I was using him to go grab a cannon from the battlefield.

[00:54:08] Bring it back to me.

[00:54:09] While I'm in cover.

[00:54:10] So that I can then take out loads of stormtroopers.

[00:54:13] Um.

[00:54:13] So it was.

[00:54:14] It was really well interwoven into the game.

[00:54:16] And.

[00:54:16] And actually.

[00:54:17] Like.

[00:54:17] Despite my initial cynicism.

[00:54:19] I ended up really loving that little guy.

[00:54:20] Um.

[00:54:21] I think he is actually a really cool little gate video game buddy.

[00:54:23] That I grew quite fond of.

[00:54:25] Um.

[00:54:25] There are also these.

[00:54:27] Uh.

[00:54:27] Meal sections.

[00:54:28] Which I think are probably pretty divisive.

[00:54:30] But I actually loved.

[00:54:32] Despite quick time events being my least favorite thing in games.

[00:54:35] It's a little quick time sequence.

[00:54:37] Where you hit buttons to have a meal with Nyx.

[00:54:39] You.

[00:54:39] Throwing each other food.

[00:54:41] It's a little cute sequence.

[00:54:42] Oh yes.

[00:54:42] Where you're making friends.

[00:54:43] There's only like eight of them.

[00:54:44] And when I got the last one.

[00:54:45] And the trophy popped.

[00:54:46] I was so sad.

[00:54:47] I was like.

[00:54:47] Oh no.

[00:54:48] I've been eating my way around the galaxy.

[00:54:50] And it's so frustrating in games.

[00:54:51] Like you know.

[00:54:52] Cyberpunk.

[00:54:53] Starfield.

[00:54:53] There's all of this food everywhere.

[00:54:55] But you.

[00:54:56] You can never interact with it in the game.

[00:54:57] And it feels sterile as a result.

[00:54:59] Like you're exploring this universe.

[00:55:01] But you can't really get your fingers into it.

[00:55:03] And for some reason in Outlaws.

[00:55:04] You get to sit down at a food truck.

[00:55:05] You get to take a moment.

[00:55:06] You get to eat the food.

[00:55:07] Um.

[00:55:08] It even has little skill boons for Nyx.

[00:55:10] Like things that Nyx can do.

[00:55:11] When you unlock new food stands.

[00:55:13] And I thought.

[00:55:14] Nyx was another.

[00:55:15] Like really.

[00:55:16] Really nice cherry on the cake in this game.

[00:55:20] Love it.

[00:55:21] Let's move on to our final topic.

[00:55:24] Our final pillar here.

[00:55:26] Impact on the industry.

[00:55:28] So we are.

[00:55:30] What?

[00:55:31] A month.

[00:55:32] And nine days ish.

[00:55:35] Eight days ish.

[00:55:36] From the release of this game.

[00:55:38] We know a little bit about what's going on.

[00:55:39] Ubisoft is in trouble.

[00:55:43] Ubisoft is in trouble.

[00:55:45] They've released some data on the game.

[00:55:47] The Star Wars Atlas sold a million copies.

[00:55:49] So far.

[00:55:50] Roughly.

[00:55:51] Um.

[00:55:52] Because of the poor sales performance.

[00:55:54] A couple things are happening.

[00:55:55] They have pushed out Assassin's Creed Shadows.

[00:55:58] Uh.

[00:55:59] To February.

[00:56:01] They.

[00:56:02] There's some major kind of patch work going on.

[00:56:06] Uh.

[00:56:06] Upgrades to Star Wars Outlaws.

[00:56:08] They.

[00:56:08] They're not leaving this game to die.

[00:56:10] I think what they're doing.

[00:56:12] And we talked about this on the last show Jake.

[00:56:13] But.

[00:56:14] I think what they're doing is they're going to try and pick up the tail.

[00:56:17] Over the holidays.

[00:56:19] And so I would expect.

[00:56:20] I'm going to expect to see actually like a pretty decent.

[00:56:23] Marketing push on this game.

[00:56:24] Like over the holidays.

[00:56:25] To try and pick up the tail.

[00:56:27] My guess is that they're expecting this.

[00:56:30] To do.

[00:56:31] Between.

[00:56:33] Four and six million copies.

[00:56:35] Would be good for them.

[00:56:37] And they only have a million so far.

[00:56:39] So they've got a pretty big tail to make up.

[00:56:42] Um.

[00:56:43] Yeah.

[00:56:44] It got a poor critical reception.

[00:56:45] We've talked about a little bit.

[00:56:47] Why that maybe was.

[00:56:49] And a couple of the reasons for it.

[00:56:51] Kind of some of the stealth things.

[00:56:52] Some of like the missed story expectations.

[00:56:55] I think personally like they.

[00:56:57] Ubisoft didn't do a good enough job.

[00:56:59] Telling.

[00:56:59] Explaining to people like what this game actually is.

[00:57:02] And I think that caused like mismanaged expectations.

[00:57:04] But overall like.

[00:57:06] The games.

[00:57:07] The impact on the industry.

[00:57:09] Is it literally could sink Ubisoft.

[00:57:12] And Ubisoft being like this.

[00:57:14] It could.

[00:57:15] I mean.

[00:57:15] It probably won't.

[00:57:16] I think the shadows will probably do well.

[00:57:18] And it will bring.

[00:57:19] It will keep them.

[00:57:20] Or they'll get acquired.

[00:57:22] Which it sounds like.

[00:57:23] They're putting bids out there.

[00:57:24] We know that the board is currently investigating.

[00:57:28] Internal operations at Ubisoft.

[00:57:30] Which is very interesting.

[00:57:32] I don't even know what that means.

[00:57:34] Necessarily.

[00:57:35] But yeah.

[00:57:36] This game did not do well enough.

[00:57:38] What's going on Jake?

[00:57:40] I mean.

[00:57:40] I honestly think that this is.

[00:57:42] This would have been less of a big deal.

[00:57:45] If Skull and Bones wasn't such a disaster.

[00:57:48] I mean.

[00:57:49] Yeah.

[00:57:49] That's Skull and Bones.

[00:57:50] It's causing a lot of problems.

[00:57:51] It all comes back to that big old quadruple A game.

[00:57:56] Which.

[00:57:57] The billion dollar game.

[00:57:59] It's quadruple A game.

[00:57:59] That's going to be played.

[00:58:02] I mean.

[00:58:02] That game.

[00:58:03] We talked about this last episode.

[00:58:05] I forgot that it came out this year.

[00:58:07] It came out in February of this year.

[00:58:09] And it feels like that game.

[00:58:11] Even when it first came out.

[00:58:13] Feels like it was five to ten years old.

[00:58:15] Right?

[00:58:15] And.

[00:58:17] They lost so much money on that.

[00:58:18] The most recent stat I saw.

[00:58:20] And folks.

[00:58:20] I tried really hard.

[00:58:21] To find a source to back this up.

[00:58:23] So this is kind of just a trust me bro source.

[00:58:25] But that it cost like 600 million to make.

[00:58:28] Skull and Bones.

[00:58:29] And that they did not see a good return on that.

[00:58:33] And with Outlaws underperforming.

[00:58:36] I just don't think that this would have typically been that big of a deal.

[00:58:39] Because I think a game like Star Wars Outlaws is going to sell really well in the holidays.

[00:58:43] You know.

[00:58:44] Mom and dad we go see.

[00:58:45] Hey it's a Star Wars game.

[00:58:46] A kid loves Star Wars.

[00:58:47] Let's get this game for them.

[00:58:49] Whatever.

[00:58:49] It's on sale.

[00:58:51] And it's a.

[00:58:53] It's a shame.

[00:58:54] Because Star Wars Outlaws is not a bad game by any means.

[00:58:57] I mean you know.

[00:58:57] We've been praising it mostly.

[00:58:59] We've been sharing our criticisms here.

[00:59:02] It would just.

[00:59:03] It would just strike me as odd.

[00:59:05] If it's a Star Wars game that broke the camel's back here.

[00:59:08] With Ubisoft.

[00:59:09] When I think the blame.

[00:59:11] Should pretty squarely be placed on.

[00:59:14] On what happened with Skull and Bones.

[00:59:16] So yeah.

[00:59:17] I don't know.

[00:59:18] Kind of a mixed non-answer for you there.

[00:59:20] But.

[00:59:20] I don't.

[00:59:21] I don't like hearing that.

[00:59:22] They're considering being purchased.

[00:59:25] And that they're having these conversations.

[00:59:28] Even.

[00:59:28] Even as much as.

[00:59:30] You know.

[00:59:30] You want to shake your fist at these AAA studios.

[00:59:32] Because a lot of them are being run by people with their heads in the ground.

[00:59:35] And they're ignoring these big problems with harassment.

[00:59:37] Or whatever it is.

[00:59:38] In their own companies.

[00:59:40] I don't know.

[00:59:41] It feels bad to think that.

[00:59:42] What if Ubisoft went away?

[00:59:44] Or what if Ubisoft got acquired by Tencent or something?

[00:59:48] Like I don't want that outcome either.

[00:59:50] John.

[00:59:51] Why do you.

[00:59:52] Why did this game not.

[00:59:54] I mean.

[00:59:55] Obviously it had a poor critical reception.

[00:59:56] Which sometimes matters.

[00:59:58] But sometimes doesn't.

[00:59:59] Right.

[00:59:59] Why did it not do.

[01:00:01] Why didn't it sell well?

[01:00:03] Ubisoft is listening.

[01:00:04] And they want to know.

[01:00:06] I've got a theory.

[01:00:07] That if this game was not published by Ubisoft.

[01:00:12] Ubisoft rather.

[01:00:14] That it would be.

[01:00:16] Ten points higher on Metacritic.

[01:00:19] I think the world was ready.

[01:00:21] To dislike this game.

[01:00:23] They are sick of Ubisoft's.

[01:00:25] Sort of MO.

[01:00:26] Of like cookie cuttering it.

[01:00:28] They're a little bit sick.

[01:00:29] And tired of people.

[01:00:30] You know their system.

[01:00:31] Of like taking systems from different games.

[01:00:32] And putting them together.

[01:00:34] Like Lego.

[01:00:34] To make another game.

[01:00:35] So you have these like echoes.

[01:00:36] Of other games.

[01:00:37] In all of their games.

[01:00:38] And so the entire Ubisoft.

[01:00:41] Catalog.

[01:00:41] Becomes this kind of.

[01:00:42] Gray scale.

[01:00:44] Mush.

[01:00:44] Of systems you've seen.

[01:00:45] In other Ubisoft games.

[01:00:47] And they lose character.

[01:00:48] As a result.

[01:00:49] I think the world was ready.

[01:00:50] To dislike this game.

[01:00:51] They didn't.

[01:00:52] They've been criticizing.

[01:00:53] The large.

[01:00:54] Assassin's Creed games.

[01:00:55] They did a small game.

[01:00:56] That got criticized too.

[01:00:57] For not being like.

[01:00:59] What they expect.

[01:01:00] As a blockbuster anymore.

[01:01:01] They've kind of painted themselves.

[01:01:02] Into a corner.

[01:01:04] Through years.

[01:01:05] Of like this.

[01:01:07] Strange strategy.

[01:01:08] Of just kind of.

[01:01:09] Churning them out.

[01:01:10] But I think that.

[01:01:11] One of the more interesting things.

[01:01:12] About this.

[01:01:13] Is that.

[01:01:14] For a long time.

[01:01:15] Ubisoft have been making their own shit.

[01:01:17] They've been making.

[01:01:17] Assassin's Creed games.

[01:01:18] They've been making.

[01:01:19] What else do they do?

[01:01:20] Far.

[01:01:20] Is not Far Cry.

[01:01:21] Is Far Cry Ubisoft right?

[01:01:23] Yes.

[01:01:24] Far Cry.

[01:01:24] Far Cry.

[01:01:25] Division.

[01:01:26] Division.

[01:01:26] Exactly.

[01:01:27] And then all of a sudden.

[01:01:28] Assassin's Creed.

[01:01:28] They got.

[01:01:29] Avatar.

[01:01:30] And you're like.

[01:01:31] Wait a second.

[01:01:31] Wow.

[01:01:32] Ubisoft have been giving the keys to the kingdom here.

[01:01:34] Like.

[01:01:35] Some of the biggest IP in the world.

[01:01:37] Star Wars and Avatar.

[01:01:38] Star Wars and Avatar.

[01:01:39] Two of the biggest franchises of all time.

[01:01:40] Right.

[01:01:40] Two of the biggest of all time.

[01:01:42] And Ubisoft have been trusted.

[01:01:43] To make games with this.

[01:01:45] And they've put the money.

[01:01:46] Up.

[01:01:47] To see if they can make this work.

[01:01:48] And they're confident that they can.

[01:01:50] I get the feeling that both of those games.

[01:01:54] Have underperformed what they expected.

[01:01:56] And I get the feeling that.

[01:01:58] The point that they're in.

[01:01:59] In their life cycle.

[01:02:01] They are an unpopular company.

[01:02:04] I think.

[01:02:05] I would say they're an unpopular company.

[01:02:06] At least if you look at the online response to Ubisoft.

[01:02:09] People are like.

[01:02:11] More microtransactions.

[01:02:12] More side quests.

[01:02:13] The games are too long.

[01:02:14] Seen all this before.

[01:02:16] When are they going to show us something new?

[01:02:17] And they continue to sell like hotcakes.

[01:02:19] Like you know.

[01:02:20] They say Valhalla was the highest selling.

[01:02:22] Assassin's Creed game of all time.

[01:02:23] Yeah.

[01:02:24] That's a billion dollar game.

[01:02:25] Which really surprised me.

[01:02:26] Because I saw this one coming man.

[01:02:28] I was like.

[01:02:28] The tides are turning on public sentiment.

[01:02:31] Towards these games.

[01:02:32] So it's surprising to me that.

[01:02:34] Outlaws flopped the way it did.

[01:02:37] I think it's probably the best game they've made.

[01:02:39] For.

[01:02:40] Eight years.

[01:02:43] And for some reason.

[01:02:44] The critics have come down negatively on it.

[01:02:47] It.

[01:02:47] As you said.

[01:02:48] It was a rushed.

[01:02:49] Promotion cycle.

[01:02:50] People had to force feed themselves this game.

[01:02:52] Which is not the way to play it.

[01:02:54] And that intermingled with like.

[01:02:56] The gamer audience being ready to dislike anything that Ubisoft does right now.

[01:03:00] And it's just led to this kind of horrible little sort of nexus.

[01:03:04] Where the game is not getting its credit.

[01:03:06] Just because of exterior forces I would say.

[01:03:08] And strategy.

[01:03:09] And you know.

[01:03:11] The shape of the market.

[01:03:12] And all this stuff.

[01:03:13] It's kind of funny because it feels like.

[01:03:15] They actually took a lot of.

[01:03:17] The things that people have expressed.

[01:03:19] That they don't like about Ubisoft games.

[01:03:22] And actually implemented it into Outlaws.

[01:03:23] But then people didn't like Outlaws.

[01:03:25] Right.

[01:03:26] I don't know if they didn't like Outlaws.

[01:03:27] I don't know if that's true.

[01:03:29] Like.

[01:03:30] I don't know.

[01:03:31] I see a lot of people in the YouTube comments.

[01:03:32] Ragging on the game.

[01:03:33] And I get the feeling they have not played it.

[01:03:35] They probably haven't played it.

[01:03:36] Yeah.

[01:03:37] It's a good point.

[01:03:37] It's just the world being against Ubisoft right now.

[01:03:42] Because of decisions they've made over years.

[01:03:45] Is that gamer internet though John?

[01:03:47] Or is that actual public sentiment?

[01:03:50] Because the public doesn't care about.

[01:03:52] That gamers hate Ubisoft.

[01:03:54] Because they're not.

[01:03:55] Because they don't change their formula.

[01:03:57] Like the gamers just game.

[01:03:59] Right.

[01:03:59] They.

[01:03:59] But Outlaws isn't a known franchise.

[01:04:02] I would say.

[01:04:03] But gamers know.

[01:04:04] Or the general public knows Star Wars.

[01:04:07] And I think this is probably the other big problem with this game.

[01:04:10] I think if Star Wars Outlaws.

[01:04:12] Had actually not been a Star Wars IP.

[01:04:14] It would have gotten a lot more praise also.

[01:04:17] The.

[01:04:17] And part of this is because the sentiment towards Star Wars.

[01:04:20] Is just corroding with toxicity.

[01:04:23] And I just.

[01:04:25] I just kind of think.

[01:04:26] Yeah.

[01:04:26] Okay.

[01:04:26] So it's like the two most toxic fan.

[01:04:28] It's the two most toxic communities.

[01:04:30] On all the internet.

[01:04:31] Gamers and Star Wars fans.

[01:04:32] And also they charged an arm and a leg for this.

[01:04:34] I got a press code.

[01:04:36] Which I'm really grateful.

[01:04:37] I saw that it was $80 in the store.

[01:04:40] It was one of those like top, top, top tier overpriced AAA games.

[01:04:45] There have only been like five of them so far.

[01:04:48] This was a mistake.

[01:04:49] If this was a $50 game.

[01:04:51] You could triple those sales figures.

[01:04:54] That's what they're hoping is.

[01:04:55] I mean I do think.

[01:04:56] I do think.

[01:04:57] I do think that there's a chance.

[01:04:59] I do think that there's a chance that this game long term actually does fine.

[01:05:03] I just think that there's an.

[01:05:04] There's.

[01:05:05] It's.

[01:05:05] It's.

[01:05:06] It's.

[01:05:06] It's financial quarters.

[01:05:08] Right?

[01:05:08] So like Ubisoft's looking at Q4 or Q3.

[01:05:11] Whatever the.

[01:05:12] And they're like hey our numbers are down.

[01:05:14] And we didn't meet our thing.

[01:05:15] Well it's like well you.

[01:05:16] You probably will pick it up in the next year.

[01:05:18] I bet this game actually sees like pretty decent.

[01:05:21] Pick up over the holidays.

[01:05:22] Mom's going out to the store.

[01:05:23] They're going to buy their kid an Xbox game or a PlayStation game.

[01:05:26] They're going to see the Star Wars game on the shelf.

[01:05:28] It's good.

[01:05:29] It's called Star Wars Outlaws.

[01:05:30] It was like oh like it's rated T for teen.

[01:05:33] Like yeah.

[01:05:33] That's a great family pickup.

[01:05:35] Like my brother will probably buy this for his kids.

[01:05:37] Like 100%.

[01:05:38] It's a Star Wars game.

[01:05:39] It's got great graphics.

[01:05:41] Ubisoft needs to do a good job at doing another mark.

[01:05:43] I think they need to do a brand new marketing campaign for the holidays.

[01:05:47] For this game.

[01:05:48] If they want to pick it up.

[01:05:49] Because I think I agree with you John.

[01:05:52] Like there's just all this weird fervor and weird conversation around this game.

[01:05:58] And Ubisoft needs to figure out a way to navigate around that.

[01:06:01] So it can kind of pick itself up out of the hole.

[01:06:04] Yeah.

[01:06:05] But yeah.

[01:06:05] I think you're right.

[01:06:06] Like a nice cinematic trailer.

[01:06:08] That like focuses a little bit more on you know the Star Wars energy of it all.

[01:06:12] Just some cut scenes.

[01:06:13] Some droids beeping at you.

[01:06:16] Some swinging across gaps.

[01:06:17] Some of that Christmas time Star Wars movie energy.

[01:06:20] Just like cut a cinematic trailer and say it's Christmas.

[01:06:22] You want Star Wars.

[01:06:24] Here's this game.

[01:06:25] You know what I mean?

[01:06:25] Here's another theory I'll throw at you.

[01:06:28] Is it because it didn't have a lightsaber?

[01:06:33] I don't know man.

[01:06:34] Andor did okay right?

[01:06:37] I mean it did.

[01:06:38] But it didn't do.

[01:06:40] I mean I love Andor.

[01:06:42] But did it do.

[01:06:44] Did it do the numbers?

[01:06:46] Ubisoft numbers.

[01:06:46] Probably not.

[01:06:47] Yeah.

[01:06:49] I don't know.

[01:06:51] This might be heresy to the hardcore Star Wars fan.

[01:06:55] What am I about to say?

[01:06:57] Hot taking coming.

[01:06:58] Yeah.

[01:06:59] I know hot taking coming.

[01:07:00] But I don't know.

[01:07:00] I think KVS is probably the closest video game character we have to Han Solo.

[01:07:04] That isn't Han Solo.

[01:07:06] Like in Han Solo we love this scrappy scoundrel who can fast talk his way out of things.

[01:07:11] And I think the closest thing we got to actually like living that fantasy in a video game was

[01:07:14] probably through KVS in this open world Star Wars game.

[01:07:19] So I actually don't think this game needed a lightsaber to appear.

[01:07:24] Like I really don't think it needed that because I do think that a lot of Star Wars fans

[01:07:29] as much as I love watching a lightsaber duel on screen.

[01:07:34] I don't know.

[01:07:35] Star Wars to me is not always the Jedi.

[01:07:38] I don't know.

[01:07:38] I think it's kind of become that.

[01:07:40] Maybe just for me personally.

[01:07:41] Maybe I'm not speaking to the actual Star Wars general.

[01:07:44] No.

[01:07:44] I agree.

[01:07:45] I'm just I'm being toxic.

[01:07:47] But I think this is a good question to ask.

[01:07:50] Right.

[01:07:51] Because obviously that's a major appeal of the Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order and Survivor.

[01:07:57] It's like you get to play with a lightsaber and you get to do.

[01:07:59] I mean, yeah.

[01:08:00] Everyone wants that Jedi fantasy.

[01:08:02] But it's OK to like.

[01:08:04] No one wanted to be at least when I was a kid.

[01:08:07] No one wanted to be Han Solo.

[01:08:08] He wanted to be Luke Skywalker.

[01:08:10] Yeah, it's true.

[01:08:11] But this is a different promise here.

[01:08:13] It's like all of those Star Wars scenes that we've all watched over the years where

[01:08:16] you're walking through a busy marketplace and there's creatures and there's strange doorways

[01:08:20] with like strange aliens coming in and out of them.

[01:08:23] This is the opportunity to walk through those doorways and to experience this universe, you

[01:08:27] know?

[01:08:28] Yeah.

[01:08:28] 100%.

[01:08:29] Yeah.

[01:08:30] I don't know.

[01:08:30] I think my final thoughts maybe on impact on the industry is it's a shame that the strengths

[01:08:37] of this game are just not being discussed.

[01:08:39] The open world design, the abilities, just the quests and the realization of these planets.

[01:08:46] I love the planet Toshara.

[01:08:48] To me, that felt like extremely.

[01:08:52] It felt very fresh.

[01:08:52] It felt fresh, but it felt very Star Wars.

[01:08:55] And just looking at like the Wind Fish Farms, I was like, this is a weird cooked up Star Wars

[01:09:03] thing.

[01:09:03] Actually, guys, I know why the game failed.

[01:09:05] I'm just going to say it.

[01:09:06] Because the race betting, and we never even talked about Pazak, but...

[01:09:11] Sabak, excuse me.

[01:09:13] Sabak or Pazak, whatever it is.

[01:09:15] Sabak.

[01:09:15] Sabak.

[01:09:16] Yes.

[01:09:16] Sorry.

[01:09:17] Never talked about Sabak.

[01:09:18] Because the race betting was the stupid horse things and not pod racers.

[01:09:22] Yeah.

[01:09:23] What was that about?

[01:09:24] Although there is a pod racer that you can happen upon if you're looking carefully at some

[01:09:29] point in the game.

[01:09:30] Oh, I think I know what you're talking about.

[01:09:31] Yeah.

[01:09:32] I actually loved Sabak.

[01:09:33] Someone wanted those horses things.

[01:09:34] We wanted the pod racing.

[01:09:36] Yeah, it's true.

[01:09:36] That was silly.

[01:09:37] Like, you couldn't even really see which horse was yours.

[01:09:39] That was a bit weak.

[01:09:40] But Sabak kicked ass.

[01:09:42] That was like one of my favorite in-game games.

[01:09:45] We didn't even talk about that.

[01:09:46] Yeah, that's...

[01:09:47] That's...

[01:09:48] You know what's...

[01:09:49] This is another thing.

[01:09:50] Maybe just shaking my fist at the ceiling or whatever.

[01:09:53] But that's become a standard in video game.

[01:09:57] Like, open world video games.

[01:09:58] Like, what kind of like in-game minigame can there be?

[01:10:01] And you can challenge people across the planet.

[01:10:03] And I don't think that's...

[01:10:05] Is that a Ubisoft thing?

[01:10:06] When we think of Ubisoft open world characteristics?

[01:10:09] This game...

[01:10:10] I mean, typically you think of like towers to unlock maps in areas, right?

[01:10:14] Which this game didn't have, right?

[01:10:16] Is there one in...

[01:10:18] I think there is in Valhalla, actually.

[01:10:19] I think of Valhalla, there's one, but I...

[01:10:21] I don't know.

[01:10:22] I just think that this open world game design was way better and more distinct than other Ubisoft games.

[01:10:28] And I'm annoyed that people aren't saying it.

[01:10:31] Yeah.

[01:10:31] I'm right at all.

[01:10:32] I think, you know, when it comes to industry stuff, I wonder if this is going to mark a change in how willing big companies are to not only make an incredibly expensive video game,

[01:10:44] but to pay that extra premium to tie it to like a renowned IP, which makes making it profitable even harder because you've paid that premium to use the license and stuff.

[01:10:57] I wonder if this Avatar and Star Wars Outlaws pair, not selling well, will actually result in a return to original IP.

[01:11:06] EA, actually, they got new leadership several years ago.

[01:11:11] And we're like, we're not doing an IP anymore because it costs too much.

[01:11:15] Yeah, exactly.

[01:11:16] We have to pay too much.

[01:11:17] This might be the nail in the coffin.

[01:11:18] You know what I mean?

[01:11:19] Yeah.

[01:11:19] I think Ubisoft, they're going to see...

[01:11:21] It's like, why would we do this?

[01:11:22] We have Assassin's Creed, which is our own franchise.

[01:11:24] We have Far Cry.

[01:11:25] Like, we need to maximize...

[01:11:27] We just wasted all this money on Outlaws.

[01:11:29] It failed.

[01:11:30] And now our Assassin's Creed franchise is at stake because we spent all this money.

[01:11:34] Kind of a sad story, man.

[01:11:36] I was honestly, when they actually got Avatar and Star Wars, I was like, this is interesting.

[01:11:40] This is interesting times.

[01:11:42] Ubisoft are like graduating as an entertainment company here before our eyes.

[01:11:46] And for them to have just fallen flat on their face, it's like, it's a shame.

[01:11:51] It is.

[01:11:52] I personally, I like the Assassin's Creed games for the most part.

[01:11:58] I wasn't a huge fan of Valhalla.

[01:11:59] I did really like Odyssey.

[01:12:01] I like the old games.

[01:12:02] They have a lot of nostalgia for me.

[01:12:04] I actually was...

[01:12:05] I'm really...

[01:12:06] I'm still really looking forward to Shadows.

[01:12:07] I'm disappointed that it got pushed.

[01:12:09] I'm hoping that the changes they're making and the upgrades that they did are really cool.

[01:12:15] But we are a little over an hour.

[01:12:18] We promised that we would talk spoilers.

[01:12:19] So let's circle back to that before we end the show.

[01:12:22] Let's talk spoilers.

[01:12:23] I'm going to start off talking about the big twist, which is...

[01:12:28] Dun, dun, dun.

[01:12:29] I thought was really cool.

[01:12:31] Which is the fact that the main Imperial security dude that's like...

[01:12:39] Who you...

[01:12:40] First off, there's a couple to us, right?

[01:12:42] So he's...

[01:12:42] He's the head of that new syndicate that he built from the ground up.

[01:12:47] Slero.

[01:12:48] Nasty gangster man.

[01:12:50] Nasty gangster.

[01:12:51] Yes.

[01:12:51] But he's also in the Imperial security services or whatever.

[01:12:56] Bureau, maybe?

[01:12:57] I don't know.

[01:12:58] But then the guy who's your contact, who's paying you to get together and do the heist,

[01:13:04] he is his brother.

[01:13:07] Is that what it is?

[01:13:08] Is that right?

[01:13:09] Mm-hmm.

[01:13:09] And they're part of this shipbuilding family.

[01:13:14] And it's this interwoven revenge story.

[01:13:16] I was like, man.

[01:13:17] It's like succession.

[01:13:18] You should have showed me that halfway through.

[01:13:20] That's actually really interesting plot stuff.

[01:13:22] I wanted to...

[01:13:23] You showed me that halfway through and you maybe fleshed that out like a teeny bit more.

[01:13:26] I think this story sings even like way better.

[01:13:30] I thought it was a great twist.

[01:13:32] It was a very cool twist.

[01:13:35] Yeah.

[01:13:35] Can I...

[01:13:36] I don't want to sound like an asshole, but I saw that coming so early.

[01:13:41] I did not.

[01:13:43] I immediately...

[01:13:43] I must be a moron.

[01:13:45] I must be a moron.

[01:13:46] But it was all of the twists in this game.

[01:13:48] It was the mom.

[01:13:52] It was the Nick's kidnapping.

[01:13:54] It was the Slero brother gate.

[01:13:56] I was like, yeah, that's what it's going to be.

[01:13:58] And it just was.

[01:13:59] And I was like, yeah, okay.

[01:14:00] You did what I thought you were going to do.

[01:14:02] Fair enough.

[01:14:04] John, you're like my wife.

[01:14:05] You sniff the mystery at the very beginning of the show.

[01:14:08] Yeah.

[01:14:08] I want to watch it.

[01:14:09] They make it a little easy.

[01:14:10] Like as we've been saying, Ubisoft assemble elements that we've seen before in both game and plot.

[01:14:15] Maybe I just wasn't paying attention.

[01:14:17] But I, you know, I liked it.

[01:14:19] Too much the back.

[01:14:19] I don't know.

[01:14:20] Or the back.

[01:14:22] The Nyx thing, and just to explain what the Nyx thing is, Nyx gets kidnapped at one point.

[01:14:27] And you have to do a mission without Nyx.

[01:14:29] Which I relied so heavily on Nyx.

[01:14:32] I was like, oh, I kind of just...

[01:14:33] Yeah.

[01:14:34] I set the controller down for a second.

[01:14:35] It's like a killer.

[01:14:37] Not, yeah.

[01:14:37] Can't scan the environment.

[01:14:39] And so, yeah.

[01:14:41] The Tatooine stuff was probably my favorite.

[01:14:44] Because you go to pick up...

[01:14:47] What do they call him?

[01:14:48] The Heavy?

[01:14:49] The...

[01:14:49] Is that right?

[01:14:50] Just one of your heist members.

[01:14:53] You go to pick him up.

[01:14:54] And gosh, I am blanking on his name.

[01:14:57] It is...

[01:14:58] Gadeek?

[01:14:59] No, this is...

[01:15:00] No, he's the other one.

[01:15:01] Yeah.

[01:15:01] No, this is a guy who dies.

[01:15:03] What's his name?

[01:15:04] Anyway.

[01:15:05] He turns out to be a rotten egg.

[01:15:06] Which is really cool.

[01:15:06] Because if you're going to assemble a crew of the baddest gangsters to try and do a bank job,

[01:15:10] one of them turning out to be a double-crossing asshole is like...

[01:15:13] That's just good.

[01:15:15] Like, of course.

[01:15:16] Yeah.

[01:15:17] So, what I was skipping over when I was talking about what I liked about Kay's adventures was this specifically.

[01:15:22] Just like...

[01:15:23] Kay gets...

[01:15:24] And listen, I love my girl Kay, but she is just a little too naive.

[01:15:27] Everybody and their mom...

[01:15:28] In her mom, literally, right?

[01:15:30] Are just stabbing her in the back.

[01:15:32] She...

[01:15:32] I mean, she's just a pincushion of a character.

[01:15:34] And then in Tatooine, when you come across this guy...

[01:15:38] I'm still...

[01:15:39] I can't even find his name on the sheet that I have up here.

[01:15:41] Anyway.

[01:15:42] He just throws you under the bus.

[01:15:43] He's like, oh, you got a job for me?

[01:15:45] That's great.

[01:15:45] But then he has to pay up a debt gambling.

[01:15:48] And he just tosses them Nix.

[01:15:50] And I was pissed.

[01:15:52] I was livid.

[01:15:53] I was like, you did not just take Nix from me.

[01:15:56] And hand him over for your payment.

[01:16:00] Yeah.

[01:16:00] And then just brush it off, you know?

[01:16:02] They made us care about Nix successfully, huh?

[01:16:04] They actually kind of ruined the flow of the game for me.

[01:16:07] Because I felt like those sections were really weak because I couldn't use Nix.

[01:16:13] But I don't know.

[01:16:14] I love that.

[01:16:16] Don't take him away.

[01:16:16] Then you go to...

[01:16:17] You're told that Nix is being taken to Jabba's palace to be sold because he's an exotic creature.

[01:16:22] And so you do this stealth there.

[01:16:24] And I really loved going to Jabba's palace.

[01:16:26] And just in stealth mode.

[01:16:28] Not as Luke...

[01:16:29] Not watching him in Return of the Jedi going through the front door and kind of talk his way and fight the Rancor.

[01:16:34] But just that whole section in that set piece.

[01:16:38] Although you do fight the Rancor.

[01:16:39] Although you do fight the Rancor, right?

[01:16:40] I mean, I love that section.

[01:16:42] That was probably the highlight of the game for me.

[01:16:43] Just being...

[01:16:44] Going in like as a player really emotionally charged.

[01:16:47] And then having a lot of personal motivation.

[01:16:50] Like for Kay to do what she's doing and to go in and really hot-headedly just be like,

[01:16:55] Alright, I'm taking Nix back.

[01:16:57] And I'm...

[01:16:57] To me that was the moment where...

[01:16:59] Despite Kay just being a total pincushion of backstabbings.

[01:17:03] That was the moment for me that Kay was like,

[01:17:06] No, I am taking complete control of what I am doing right now.

[01:17:10] I'm not waiting for the big score.

[01:17:12] I am settling this right here, right now.

[01:17:14] And so that is when I think I fell in love with Kay the most.

[01:17:17] Was on Tatooine.

[01:17:19] Yeah.

[01:17:19] I think that the callbacks...

[01:17:22] There was always going to be callbacks in this game.

[01:17:24] And I think they are all spoilers.

[01:17:25] So it's good that we only talk about them now.

[01:17:28] But the fact that Kay encounters the Rebellion.

[01:17:32] We know what the Rebellion is doing now.

[01:17:34] They've taken out a Death Star.

[01:17:35] They know there's another one coming.

[01:17:37] And so there are moments where you see X-Wings.

[01:17:39] There are moments where you see Rebels.

[01:17:41] And she wants nothing to do with them.

[01:17:43] And it's so nice to get that little bit of ambient flavour from the time period

[01:17:48] that it's in relation to the original films.

[01:17:50] I don't know about this, right?

[01:17:51] So I've got a question for you as well.

[01:17:53] Jabba the Hurt was a great one as well.

[01:17:54] Great to see Jabba.

[01:17:55] Great to visit the palace.

[01:17:56] Great to be standing on the trap door.

[01:17:58] We all know it's a trap door.

[01:17:59] KVS doesn't.

[01:18:00] Fantastic moment when that opens.

[01:18:02] Bib Fortuna.

[01:18:06] And I got this fancy version of the game.

[01:18:09] And so I had this side quest where you meet Lando as well.

[01:18:14] Was this in the base game?

[01:18:18] I didn't have Lando in my game.

[01:18:20] I thought I had the fancy version because I had it on Ubisoft+.

[01:18:24] But it's a side quest.

[01:18:26] It's a high roller side quest.

[01:18:29] If I had access to it, I did not do it.

[01:18:32] It was a missable side quest.

[01:18:34] But I think it might have been primo content in the deluxe whatever.

[01:18:38] But there was an optional Jabba mission.

[01:18:41] Yeah.

[01:18:41] And it's like you meet Lando and Lando's like playing you a little bit.

[01:18:48] And he's like, you don't know he's in the rebellion.

[01:18:50] And he's just this businessman who's like gambling a lot.

[01:18:52] Gets you to do a little job for him.

[01:18:54] And then you discover that he's in the rebellion.

[01:18:56] Like, oh, this guy's a rebel in disguise.

[01:18:58] Really nice to see Lando because he is another kind of Han Solo-ish rogue character in that universe.

[01:19:05] So I think like taking out all of those criminal elements from Star Wars and not the Jedi stuff at all.

[01:19:12] I guess we did get a little Darth Vader in there towards the end.

[01:19:17] But thankfully just a small cameo.

[01:19:21] I was really, really, really happy with what they did in terms of callbacks.

[01:19:24] Getting to go to Tatooine, that planet that we love.

[01:19:27] Getting to go around Mos Eisley.

[01:19:30] And that bit where you're going through the desert to look for a Sarlacc pit.

[01:19:33] They're playing the hits, you know.

[01:19:34] They played the hits in this game.

[01:19:36] You get to go into a Sarlacc pit.

[01:19:38] You get to do all these things that you were curious about from the rest of the Star Wars movies, you know.

[01:19:44] Yeah, I mean, even seeing in Jabba's palace, you see Boba Fett having a conversation.

[01:19:50] And then you see Han Solo frozen in carbonite.

[01:19:52] Yeah.

[01:19:53] Yeah, I think, yeah.

[01:19:54] Tatooine's right there on the wall.

[01:19:55] Exactly.

[01:19:56] That's the time period that we're in.

[01:19:57] We get to see Han on the wall and she's just like, who's this guy?

[01:19:59] Yeah, I know.

[01:20:02] Guys, you know what game I want?

[01:20:04] I want the Darth Vader game.

[01:20:06] I just want to play as Darth Vader.

[01:20:08] I want the Lando game.

[01:20:09] I just want to play Sabacc all around the universe.

[01:20:12] Just go gambling in casinos.

[01:20:13] Where is the Sabacc iPhone?

[01:20:16] Exactly.

[01:20:17] The Lando Sabacc game, please.

[01:20:18] Yeah.

[01:20:20] They should do that, right?

[01:20:21] Recoup your costs and just somehow make it on the cheap Sabacc and put it on.

[01:20:27] That will solve Ubisoft's problem.

[01:20:29] You just got to make a mobile game out of the mini game of your...

[01:20:32] Right.

[01:20:33] That worked for CD Projekt Red, right?

[01:20:35] Oh, that's right.

[01:20:36] They did do that, huh?

[01:20:37] Yeah.

[01:20:39] I don't think that game did very well.

[01:20:40] Yeah.

[01:20:41] Although Final Fantasy Rebirth, that's the game.

[01:20:44] Queen's Blood?

[01:20:45] Queen's Blood.

[01:20:46] A hundred percent.

[01:20:47] If they don't make a Queen's Blood, I don't even know what they're doing.

[01:20:50] They don't know what they're doing, man.

[01:20:51] That's for you.

[01:20:52] No.

[01:20:53] I really like the one in Survivors as well.

[01:20:54] You know, it's hologram chess.

[01:20:56] Like on...

[01:20:56] Oh, yeah.

[01:20:57] They're playing it on board the Millennium Falcon in Star Wars 1.

[01:20:59] I completely skipped that.

[01:21:01] I loved it.

[01:21:02] I played all of it.

[01:21:03] I played all of it.

[01:21:04] It's just such a simple auto-battler.

[01:21:06] You just set your troops up and then watch what happens.

[01:21:08] It's just about picking the spots and picking the troops.

[01:21:12] So it's just watching the battle unfold.

[01:21:13] It's a little hollow game.

[01:21:14] I played that.

[01:21:15] I got the trophy for beating everyone and I wanted more.

[01:21:18] I'm just a sucker for these in-game games.

[01:21:19] Which if they're...

[01:21:21] I mean, what I love about a good in-game minigame or whatever is if they're just simple enough

[01:21:27] and they're not time consuming, then you spend the most time doing them.

[01:21:31] This is off topic.

[01:21:33] 100%.

[01:21:33] But Sea of Stars, I actually got really into Wheels, which was the minigame there.

[01:21:36] I played a lot of Wheels.

[01:21:38] I really liked that.

[01:21:39] I don't know.

[01:21:40] Other spoiler moments.

[01:21:42] Yeah, I always knew that the mom was no good.

[01:21:45] Like, I don't know.

[01:21:48] She comes back at the very end.

[01:21:50] Like, that to me, I felt like was maybe unnecessary.

[01:21:56] I know that's a big part of who Kay is, this abandonment and her mom shows up, but I don't know.

[01:22:03] They kind of teed that up pretty hard.

[01:22:05] Yeah, maybe that was...

[01:22:06] All of the visions that she has.

[01:22:08] The visions and stuff.

[01:22:09] Yeah.

[01:22:11] I kind of liked how that came around.

[01:22:13] Like, I kind of liked that she, like, in the absence of people having been loyal to her, decided to be loyal to others.

[01:22:18] I thought that was actually pretty strong.

[01:22:20] The story was a little bit messy, a little bit fluffy in places.

[01:22:24] But I liked that Kay kind of just found fortitudes and decided to be a good person.

[01:22:29] I don't know.

[01:22:30] I like that vibe.

[01:22:31] I mean, it's nice seeing that kind of happy, optimistic humanity, I guess.

[01:22:37] I don't know.

[01:22:39] I think the last spoiler I give is they don't really is...

[01:22:46] I didn't realize this as I was playing the game, but the final, like, space battle, depending on, like, which factions you have good, great, like, rankings with,

[01:22:59] I'm 99% sure they show up and help you out in the space battle.

[01:23:03] Yeah, I think so too.

[01:23:03] I got Crimson Dawn, sadly.

[01:23:06] Yeah, I only had the Hutts, and so they were the only ones who showed up, and the battle was, like, pretty tough.

[01:23:13] I got only Crimson Dawn.

[01:23:14] I think I was only excellent with Crimson Dawn at the end of the game.

[01:23:17] Yeah.

[01:23:17] Yeah.

[01:23:18] So there was a little bit of a payoff to that system.

[01:23:22] Well, ladies and gentlemen, I've got to go, so it's time to end the show.

[01:23:27] This has been our conversation analyzing and talking about Star Wars Outlaws.

[01:23:31] We thank John.

[01:23:32] John, thanks so much for coming on the show, talking about Star Wars Outlaws with us.

[01:23:36] Hopefully this gave you some insight, maybe a little bit different than you've maybe seen out on the internets.

[01:23:42] Gave you some things to think about in terms of Star Wars Outlaws.

[01:23:46] Great video game.

[01:23:47] Definitely worth your time.

[01:23:50] If you like the show, please leave us a review on your podcast platform of choice.

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[01:24:13] Can I actually cut in and say that some of the Jake's bonus content with the Indie Looks podcasts are absolutely fantastic.

[01:24:20] This is one of the hardest working Patreons I've seen.

[01:24:24] It's just putting out some great stuff all the time.

[01:24:25] I'm really happy to be a patron.

[01:24:28] Thank you.

[01:24:29] That was really nice of you to say, John.

[01:24:30] Thanks so much.

[01:24:31] And Jake, yes.

[01:24:31] Jake is a monster indie gamer.

[01:24:35] Let me just tell you guys.

[01:24:36] Let me just tell you guys.

[01:24:39] Jake is at any given time playing maybe about eight indie games, and he finishes all of them.

[01:24:44] It doesn't matter if he doesn't even like them.

[01:24:46] He finishes them.

[01:24:47] I don't.

[01:24:48] He's a machine.

[01:24:48] I don't do that.

[01:24:49] I'm going to be honest with you guys.

[01:24:50] I don't do it.

[01:24:51] Jake does it.

[01:24:51] He's the heart and soul of this thing.

[01:24:52] So go support.

[01:24:54] If you're just going to sign up, just go sign up for the Indie Pass.

[01:24:56] For Jake's Indie Pass, you can support Jake directly on that piece.

[01:24:59] Jake Pass.

[01:25:00] And John.

[01:25:00] And the Jake Pass.

[01:25:01] I have to confess, I'm not going to finish Pacific Drive.

[01:25:04] That is the...

[01:25:07] So...

[01:25:08] Well, you're not as good as I thought you were.

[01:25:09] Yeah, please accept the apology.

[01:25:10] And with that, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for listening, and have a great night.