UFO 50: Was I Wrong? | Postgame Show

[00:00:00] You're now live on Fine Time!

[00:00:43] Anyway, it's been a year since then, as of this recording, and I'm still in love with UFO 50. It's the best indie game of all time. But, not every game on there is a winner. You know? There were a number of games I didn't feel came off as good as they could have, and there were a few that I outright hated. Thankfully, only a few. Again, doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, it's still the best game ever, and realistically,

[00:01:12] you can't expect every single game in a collection of 50, you can't expect them all to be good. You know, there has to be some clunkers in there. I mean, it's only natural, right? But, maybe, just maybe, I was a little too hasty in some of my reviews, in retrospect. I put together that episode so fast that I didn't really have time to extensively explore every game inside and out. And that was by design.

[00:01:42] I purposely wanted that episode to be mini-review style, with quick judgments. And I said as much in that episode itself that I'm not going too deep into these games for the most part. So, please don't take my review as any sort of thorough examination. It's mostly just for funsies, right? But even so, I really do feel that I could stand to go back to some of those games I wasn't too keen on, and see if I was wrong.

[00:02:11] So, that's the premise of this episode here. I'm going to reevaluate eight UFO 50 games that I was less than nice to, and see if I'll be nice this time. I'll play back what I said in that original episode, and then see if my tune has changed or not. Eight games, eight reevaluations, all asking the question, was I wrong?

[00:02:45] Let's kick this off with Nenpek. Nenpek, I felt, was a bit underbaked, if I remember correctly, and not really that fun as a result. Let's play back what I said on my previous UFO 50 episode. Game 3, Nenpek. This is an auto-scrolling platform game like Sun Sun or Goemon. You know, but you're a ninja, hence the name Nenpek.

[00:03:12] I guess it takes after Ninja Ja Maru-kun too, of course. And I guess this game is okay. I appreciate what they were trying to do here, but I don't think it totally comes together. Some of the enemies can take a lot of hits, which feels unnecessary in an auto-scrolling game like this. And some projectiles can feel kind of cheap. I guess maybe the enemy placement feels a little haphazard is what I'm trying to say. And it doesn't allow for that careful ramping up of difficulty these games are known for.

[00:03:42] Also, you don't get any points for killing enemies. Each enemy drops like a doodad when you kill them, and you have to go get that doodad to get the points. Which is a pretty fussy thing to do on top of everything else going on. So yeah, Nenpek's heart is in the right place, but I can't give it any higher than a C-. Yep, that's exactly how I remember feeling.

[00:04:05] And you know, I wasn't optimistic that my opinion would change upon replaying it, but hey, you never know, right? So I sat down with an open mind and I tried my best to see something in Nenpek. And now it's time to find out. Was I wrong? No, I wasn't wrong. Nenpek is simply not it.

[00:04:32] I still really, really do not like how this game assaults you with really annoying shit right off the bat. And it simply doesn't let up. There's none of the careful, you know, enemy corralling, you could say, of Sun Sun or Goemon with like the parallel floors. Obviously, the games that inspired Nenpek. There's none of the battle excitement even of like a Kid Nikki or a Kung Fu Heroes or even a Ninja Jamaru-kun.

[00:05:01] And the power ups aren't very exciting either. Maybe that's what this game needs. It needs some like real power ups to make the annoying ass bullet spam much more worth it. But Nenpek just feels hookless in every aspect, basically. Like again, let's go through all the ingredients. Okay, the movement kind of pokey bullet spam annoying. The characters themselves kind of generic chibi ninjas.

[00:05:31] Music, it's totally fine. It's just there. Power ups don't feel powerful. Enemies aren't particularly inspiring. Like there's just not a single thing here for me to latch on to. That doesn't make Nenpek a bad game necessarily, but it's certainly the kind of thing that I would see maybe once or twice at the arcade pop a credit in there. Okay, I tried that and then like never play it again.

[00:05:57] And actually, maybe that's part of it because and I know I'm going to sound like a prick, but I grew up playing real arcade games. You know, an indie developer takes on arcade games are almost never as good as the real thing. So maybe I expect a certain standard that's not really possible anymore because it's not that time anymore.

[00:06:22] So like if you're a younger person and you've largely experienced the past, quote unquote, the past through the lens of like retro indie games, maybe an impact would be perfectly fine for you. Again, no judgment on that. I I'm clearly the one who's old and set in my archaic ways about this type of shit. So I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm the one being inflexible here. No matter what, though, I just feel an impact needed some more time in the oven.

[00:06:52] It's a great idea. I love that they tried to replicate that particular kind of mid eighties arcade game, but it just does not hit for me. So I'm sorry, but I can't change my mind on an impact. Next up, I wanted to revisit rail heist. I didn't really get into rail heist in my original episode, and I remember feeling like it was mostly my fault. Let's listen back.

[00:07:21] Game 28 rail heist. Man, I don't know about this one. So as the name implies, you're a cowboy pulling off a heist on a train and there's a stealth element to it where you don't want to be seen or also fire on sight. But at the same time, there's a turn based timer element to it after you shoot somebody that I don't understand at all because you stop moving and then they start moving. And if they see you, you're dead.

[00:07:51] That's it. I almost feel like this could have been like a 2D side scrolling version of like a Valkyria Chronicles or XCOM or something, but it doesn't play like that at all. I feel like this isn't a bad game, but I didn't get it, which is probably my fault. So I'll just give it a C minus because it made me feel dumb. I'm sorry. Rail heist. Oh, yeah, I knew I was wrong.

[00:08:17] This game really bamboozled me and I was just not picking it up. I felt really stupid playing rail heist last year, but I definitely felt that if I just gave it some more time, I would get it. So I did exactly that. I put in the time and now I can reveal. Was I wrong? Yes, I was absolutely wrong. Rail heist is great.

[00:08:44] The way this game engages your brain is so unique and cool. I love it. I legitimately haven't played anything like it before. If there's another game out there that's like rail heist, I would love to know about it. I love this game because there's so many different ways to accomplish a heist depending on how you want to play it, which is really important to me because I feel like what often happens to me in other stealth games.

[00:09:11] I don't know if rail heist is really a stealth game, but I don't know what else to call it. What happens to be in other stealth games is that there appears to be some sort of very particular way that they want you to play the game and a very particular way they want you to solve most situations. And I always find that extremely frustrating. There's nothing worse than seeming like you have freedom and then you discover that you don't actually have any at all. Rail heist is not like that.

[00:09:39] You can really get creative with your problem solving. And now that I finally understand the turn based aspect of it, too. I love it. I love rail heist. What a game. Excellent stuff. And also now that I've beaten Grimstone and I realize that rail heist takes place in like the same universe. I think that's like a super cool connection. I love the way these UFO 50 games reference each other in the same way that it most likely would have happened back in the day.

[00:10:09] It's just a really nice, authentic touch. I feel so anyway. Yeah, I was big wrong on rail heist. Whoops. So now I want to revisit Velgress. And if I remember correctly, I felt pretty put out by how punishing the game was, if I remember. So let's find out. Let's replay what I said. Game seven, Velgress.

[00:10:38] This is basically the Metroid escape sequence, but an entire game. You're a lady bounty hunter who's deep underground and you got to jump up and up to escape. It's randomly generated and it's fun, but there's a problem. Just like Magic Garden, you're a one hit wonder. While that's not a problem in Magic Garden, it is a problem in Velgress because they clearly want you to progress here.

[00:11:01] There's like a shop that appears after you reach a certain amount of floors and then the environment changes and there's like a new song and everything. But if you die, it's all over. You have to go back to the beginning. And that just doesn't feel right. Like, I feel like this should have been like Mr. Driller, where you just have three lives complete this long gauntlet and maybe one extra life if you play your cards right. Velgress is too stingy in this regard, so I can't give it higher than a C. Hmm.

[00:11:32] Interesting. I forgot that I, I forgot that I framed it in terms of number of lives because my feelings on that have evolved because I think I realized pretty quickly that what I actually wanted was a more fair playing experience in general because more lives isn't going to fix the core problem of Velgress being too punishing and too picky. But alas, after my re-evaluation, it's time to ask, was I wrong?

[00:12:05] Yes, I ended up being wrong here, but for an unusual reason. So, shortly after my original episode aired, like maybe six weeks after, they actually patched Velgress to be much more fair in terms of the way platforms spawn and behave. Holy shit! Holy shit! Like, yes, I got exactly what I wanted! In a game where they really want you to progress in your runs, this feels so much better to play now.

[00:12:35] Holy shit! It felt so frustrating before because it felt like the randomizer was so against you. It definitely doesn't feel like that anymore, and the game is so, so much better for it. It's really allowed me to appreciate how unusual and unique upward-scrolling action platformers are. You know what I mean? Because, like, honestly, what's another one? Like, Kid Icarus? Is that about it?

[00:13:04] I'm sure there's plenty I'm not thinking of, but point is, they saw the same crippling flaw in Velgress that I saw, and they did something about it. And I'm very grateful because one little tweak turned an okay game into a great game. That's all it takes sometimes, I guess. So thank you, Mossmouth! Let's move on to Mini and Max.

[00:13:29] I don't remember being too harsh on Mini and Max, but let's play it back and see. Game 45, Mini and Max. So Mini and Max is like a non-linear exploratory platformer where it's about exploring this big space because you shrunk. Like, honey, I shrunk the kids. So it's cool because you see everyday things like pencils or books or apples that are now several screens tall because now you're so tiny.

[00:13:58] So that's cool, but almost every task is like you talk to an NPC and they're like, hey, I'll help you if you give me this thing. But I encountered like five or six NPCs who said this and they all want something different. I guess it's supposed to be like a chain reaction thing where you're essentially like trading items with people all around the map until you win. But like, that's not really that fun in a platformer like this. I don't know, man. You know what? I'll blame this one on me. Okay, this is on me.

[00:14:28] This seems like a good game that I just don't get. Mini and Max, I'm going to give you a C plus, but just know it's not your fault. Yeah, this definitely seems like I should have spent more time with it. So, well, now I have the time to do that. So I did that. I spent more time with it. I spent a couple hours with Mini and Max actually and have reached a conclusion. So, was I wrong?

[00:14:57] Yeah, I was wrong. Dead wrong on this one. I now finally understand that this is not an action platformer like a rescue rangers or some shit. It's an adventure game. And what an excellent adventure game it is. The fact that you shrink yourself down to insect size and then shrink down again to the fucking molecular level was beyond my wildest expectations. That's so cool.

[00:15:25] And they really, truly mapped out every inch of every surface of this game accounting for you shrinking down wherever you want. And this leads to a ridiculous amount of ground to explore and cover. And I love it, man. It's so good. The premise of the game is also just weird to begin with since you're trapped in this storeroom and you shrink yourself down to find a way out in the first place.

[00:15:51] It's such great escapism and very surreal. Just what a concept brought to life, man. And they did not need to go this hard. Honestly, they could have just let this be a surface level type of fetching items adventure game. And that would have been totally fine. I still would have liked that. But they went way, way beyond that. So I'm sorry, Minion Max. I was not familiar with your game. Literally.

[00:16:20] Because I had you pegged completely wrong. You are not a shitty version of Rescue Rangers. You are a world class adventure game. And I was totally wrong about you. Please forgive me. Now it's time to reevaluate Caramel Caramel, which I remember being really bewildered by. Let's listen. Game 24. Caramel Caramel.

[00:16:50] Hey, we finally have our first shmup. And the hook is that in addition to firing, you also have a photo button to freeze your enemies in a Polaroid frame for some reason. And you also start the game with zero lives for also some reason. I don't even know if you can earn more lives. It just says, you know, chip X zero. So it's like, I guess I could earn more lives, but I never did. So, yeah, this is a bit of a head scratcher. Why zero lives in a shmup?

[00:17:20] And I like the picture taking idea, but I also don't understand the benefits. Maybe I just need more time with it. But for now, Caramel Caramel gets a generous C+. Yeah, okay. I wasn't too hard on it. I guess I was more confused than anything else. But in an effort to not be confused anymore by Caramel Caramel, I sat back down with it. I gave it a much more thorough playthrough. So now I can tell you with certainty.

[00:17:49] Was I wrong? No, I wasn't wrong. And in fact, I should have been a lot harsher. Caramel Caramel does not give a fuck about you. So here's what's going on. Now that I finally understand what's happening. The reason why they start you with no lives is because they want you to earn lives through score play. So when you capture enemies in the Polaroid picture frame, they freeze.

[00:18:18] And if you shoot them while they're frozen, you get double the score. That's the key to racking up score in Caramel Caramel, the picture frame. And on the surface, that's really cool because I love when games make you earn stuff by engaging with its gimmick. You know, the more you do it, the more stuff you get and the better you get at it, the better, you know, the higher score. Okay, cool. You can sell me on that. But here's the reason why this doesn't work in Caramel Caramel.

[00:18:47] Actually, it's for three reasons. Number one, the gimmick is simply not obvious to the player. It does ease you into it somewhat with some really easy enemies to capture at first. But when you first play the game, you don't necessarily know you're supposed to do that.

[00:19:05] I think the game could have benefited from one of those like 10 second explanations that you get from like an arcade, a track screen or like after you hit one player start or something where they slow it down and they show you the gimmick with like one sentence. You know, capture the enemies in the frame, then shoot them for a high score, you know, like in demonstrating it real quick. That's all they needed to do. But Caramel Caramel simply does not have that.

[00:19:32] So you have to fumble around with the mechanic until you get it. And again, I'm old. So I've played a million arcade games and figured out a million gimmicks on the fly, and I just could not parse this one at first. So I don't think this is my fault personally. Reason number two, this doesn't work is that the score threshold for an extra life is pretty fucking high. You have to get 8000 points to get your first one, and that takes almost the entire level.

[00:20:02] And look, it's entirely possible that I'm not maximizing the score play enough, but I think I'm doing reasonably well. How good do they actually want me to play? It seems like they want some sort of crazy expert level play right off the bat, and I just don't have that in me. You know, I'm just I'm just a regular dude. And reason number three, this doesn't work. And by far the most devastating one.

[00:20:28] When you die in caramel caramel and you use one of those extra lives you earned, you get put back all the way to the beginning of the stage. What the fuck? Why? Why would they do that? That means that if you die at the stage one boss and you earn an extra life, you get put back at the beginning of the damn game.

[00:20:55] That's functionally the same as a game over. So why even have the extra lives in the first place? I don't get it, man. What a what an asinine decision. What a way to completely ruin basically everything, something that could have been so cool. And it's just I don't know why they made that decision. It's a real shame, too, because it's such a cute concept. Caramel caramel.

[00:21:24] You're you're these two fish space fish traveling to other planets because you got this new camera and you want to take pictures of everything. That's why you have the Polaroid gimmick. And that's such a cool idea. But caramel caramel simply does not let you enjoy that concept. And as a result, it just isn't very good. Oh, well.

[00:21:47] Let us now talk about Cyber Owls, a game I really wanted to like at the time, but I didn't. I just really didn't. Let's play back what I said. Game 50, Cyber Owls. So remember those games where it was like it's a side scroller one level, then the next level you have to drive somewhere and then the level after that, they make you bust out the zapper to shoot stuff.

[00:22:14] And remember how those games were never really that good because they tried to do all those things and none of them particularly well? That's Cyber Owls. There's a racing level that just flat out sucks. There's a Cabal shooter level, which is decent enough. It's probably the best one here. There's a Shinobi type of level that's pretty imprecise and kind of cheap. And then there's a Metal Gear level, which is just not my thing. It's too bad because the Cyber Owls themselves are hella cool.

[00:22:41] It seems like the exact kind of property that LGN would license out at the time. And unlike my Virtual Boy comparison, that was not a compliment. Cyber Owls gets a C-. Oh man, that was kind of harsh. Although it felt warranted at the time. But is it still warranted? I gave it some more time. I really, really tried again to like Cyber Owls. And now I am here to tell you. Was I wrong?

[00:23:12] No, unfortunately, I was not wrong. Cyber Owls is just not a very good game. Not a single one of those four gameplay styles feels good to play. Straight up. They're all not good. I don't even know why I praised the Cabal shooter stage in my original episode because now I think that part even sucks. The guys take way too many shots to kill and it feels really frivolous in general because you don't even have to actually kill the guys to continue.

[00:23:42] They'll just eventually like saunter off screen, just meander away if you don't do anything about them. And the play field is so wide that you can easily avoid all their shots. You don't have to get near them at all. So it becomes like a pacifist game, which, yeah, I get that like pacifist runs are a thing in arcade games sometimes, especially ones like this. But that's just not what I'm here for. To me, that is not good.

[00:24:07] You know, the fake ass shinobi stage is so annoying when it should be so much fun. Like the punching and kicking actually feels good, but the enemies are just so annoying and they just poke you a lot and you don't have much life to work with. You know how like in Mega Man games, they give you that big ass life bar so you can take a lot of hits because they expect that to happen to you.

[00:24:33] But it's still really challenging and really fun despite the fact that you can take a lot of hits. No such luck in cyber owls. It's just really annoying. That's the word I keep coming back to annoying. And remember what I said about rail heist where the sneaking and stealth feels great because of the solutions you can put together for them. The stealth level in cyber owls is lousy like all the other stealth games. I can't stand.

[00:25:00] I don't understand why every gameplay section has to be so goddamn picky and weird. I don't like it. So yeah, cyber owls gives me nothing but frustration, unfortunately. And again, just like caramel caramel. I love the concept so much of cyber owls. It's like the perfect 90s ass Saturday morning cartoon bullshit motif. And I just can't enjoy any aspect of it.

[00:25:27] So sorry, cyber owls, but we are not compatible. I just can't get into you. Okay, it's time for Campanella 2. Oh boy, I've been dreading playing this again because I kind of hated this game and I remember how much I hated it. Let's play it back. Game 35, Campanella 2.

[00:25:54] So Campanella was excellent and the spinoff The Big Bell Race was even better. So what does Campanella 2 have in store for us? Well, instead of being a snappy arcade game like the first one, this time we have a proper adventure game where you can get in and out of your UFO and explore around and find rooms to go into. Sort of like Blaster Master. That's the best comp for it. But there's a huge problem. You have one life, one fucking life, and it's all over.

[00:26:23] Guys, what the hell are you doing? Imagine playing Blaster Master on one life. I mean, what? Why would you ruin such a cool concept this way? And you can also still run out of fuel, which sucks because you're supposed to explore around. But all the shops, everything costs so much. So it's like, how am I supposed to survive? I'm sorry. I don't think this is me this time. I think this is really bad balancing. And I don't know, if you don't want me to actually play the game, then I won't.

[00:26:53] Campanella 2 gets a D minus. Whew. Yeah, I did not hold back and I shouldn't have. But of course, in the interest of fairness, I tried. I really, really tried to come to grips with Campanella 2. And here I stand before you now to tell you, was I wrong? Uh, kinda? Somewhat.

[00:27:22] I was wrong, but also not really. So, one thing I neglected to mention in my original review is that Campanella 2 is a randomly generated game. I wouldn't necessarily call it a roguelike, but the level layouts do change and they change pretty drastically. So, therefore, it would make sense that you only have one life to beat the game on. Okay, so when it comes to that aspect, I was wrong.

[00:27:53] Okay, fine. I admit it. However, the way these stages are generated can really, really fuck you over. And yes, the randomness is part of the fun of these games, you know? Sometimes things will not be in your favor, and that's okay. That's part of the appeal. But Campanella 2's mood swings are so wild to the point where it truly feels like you can't overcome a bad draw.

[00:28:19] To use another Mossmouth game as an example, if you want to find a shop in Spelunky, for instance, you can. You might not always find it quickly, or it might be hard to get to, but if you really need to check out that shop and get some more ropes or bombs or something, you very often can do that. That's just not the case in Campanella 2, and you need that fuel, baby. You gotta have it or you're done.

[00:28:48] And although I really like the idea of going into the random rooms and searching for shit, that doesn't always result in fuel either, or items in general that would be useful to helping me continue my run. You know? Like, everything just feels far, far too weighted against the player. Which, in keeping with Mossmouth here, that's also the reason why I did not like Spelunky 2. Campanella 2 suffers from the exact same thing.

[00:29:19] It's a shame, man. I really was hoping this got a miracle patch like Velgress did, but no such luck. I was also just hoping after a few plays, I'd be like, okay, I understand what this game wants from me. And that didn't happen either. What a bummer, honestly. Because more than any of the games I'm covering today, I really, really wished Campanella 2 was good. So yeah, I'm a little wrong on this one. Just a little.

[00:29:49] I didn't outright hate my time playing this like I did the first time, but it's too stingy to actually invest in a real amount of time. I'm into like beating a run of it. So, I'll stick to Planet Zoldath for my random generation thrills. So last and least, we have Star Waspier. Ugh. You know, all I remember is that I gave this game an F. Let's hear it.

[00:30:20] Game 39, Star Waspier. So, Star Waspier is a vertical shmup in a 16x9 screen format. And I think everyone knows that does not work. The amount of ground you have to cover always sucks. And besides that though, Star Waspier is just completely no fun to play. You know how in most shmups you get those shitty little beginning enemies that you can just kill in one shot? You know, like popcorn enemies. Gives you that quick satisfaction.

[00:30:50] Eases you into the game feel. Well, Star Waspier doesn't give a fuck about you. Because the first thing they do is send an entire line of fruit flies to take several hits to kill. They're shooting crazy bullets at you. Like, yo man, chill. Can I get used to the game first, please? And then this pattern goes on forever. Waves and waves of flies. By the time anything else cool happens, you're already well over it. Your bullets don't even go all the way up the screen. What the hell were they thinking?

[00:31:18] I'm sorry, but Star Waspier is completely miserable. This game gets an F. Alright. Alright. Alright. Like... Okay. Could it really be that bad? How could it possibly be that bad? Maybe I was just having a bad day or something? I don't think it's... Okay. I don't think it's gonna become good all of a sudden upon my revaluation, but...

[00:31:48] I have to be wrong about this game to some degree. Right? How could I not be? Well, let's answer that question right now about Star Waspier. Was I wrong? I mean... I guess I was wrong. A little bit. But the game still really sucks. Okay? I was completely right about that. And...

[00:32:18] Yeah. The 16x9 play field. The widescreen play field for a horizontal shmup. Still bad. Always bad. That's always something that sucks ass in this genre. There has never been a single good widescreen vertical shmup. And I don't know why people keep trying. Covering that much ground is always a losing position from the jump. It's miserable.

[00:32:45] But also, the power-up system is just trash. Man, like... You know how in most shmups, there's like a bunch of power-ups, right? One speeds you up. One gives you the laser or the twin shot. One gives you a support weapon or an option or something, right? Like... Star Waspier instead has a system where they want you to collect three of the same icon. And then you get powered up. Right? Here's the big problem though. There's only two power-ups to collect.

[00:33:16] There's the E icons and the G icons. And the game showers you with them with reckless abandon. They're just making it rain on your ass. And you have to get three of them in a row for anything to happen. This is really obnoxious to accomplish considering how wide the screen is and how manic the game is. But then, if you actually do get three of a kind, the power-up you get sucks!

[00:33:42] You get like a shitty little missile-shaped option slash helper thing that takes damage really fast and they blow up. Or you get a bomb stock, a very unsatisfying bomb that looks lame as shit. And that's just not good. Shmups need good power-ups, man. It's an essential part of the genre. And Star Wars Pier simply does not care.

[00:34:07] But, despite how I feel about this game, I do need to recognize where I was wrong. Because truthfully, I simply don't like this style of shmup. This is the kind of manic, small sprite-size, tons-of-things-on-the-screen kind of game that you would see from developers like Compile, for instance. You know, games like Alest or Zanac or whatever. And I have just never liked that kind of stuff.

[00:34:36] But, it's a very home console style of shmup. Which is perfect because the conceit of UFO 50 is that you're playing a fake console, right? So, that's fine, but I like arcade shmups. The home console once to me always felt like I was playing a game of hyperactive ants because the sprites are so small. I want the big spectacle and the big effects and sprites and shit.

[00:35:04] You know, that's what I like from shmups. So, sorry, I just can't get down with this style. But I should have recognized that. I should have said, hey, Star Wars Pier isn't really my kind of shmup. You know, so it's already working from a disadvantage. So, yeah, because I didn't say that, I am wrong to a degree. And also, Star Wars Pier did not deserve an F. Okay, maybe like a D or a D plus. Alright, but not an F.

[00:35:34] That was too harsh. So, fine. I was wrong. But was I really? Alright, well, that's it. That was a fun revisit. Geez, well, man, I love UFO 50 so much. I meant what I said at the top of the episode. This is the best indie game of all time.

[00:36:04] And it's not even close. Please go out there and support this game any way you can. And who knows? Maybe my least favorites will be your favorites. And if you already have UFO 50, go ahead and give those games that you didn't like the first time. Go give them a second chance. You know? You just might discover you were wrong like I was. Or discover that you were right. Heh. So get out there and explore. Okay? Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.

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