Split Fiction

[00:00:09] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Period of Bonus Podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Cameron Warren and I'm joined as always by the pixel professor, Jacob Price. It's March 13th, 2025. We're back to talk about video games. Jake, I have completed Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, clocking in at 57.2 hours.

[00:00:37] Dude, nice. And I loved pretty much every moment of it. Except when, I'm going to talk, so the game is janky, okay? Not as janky as like a Skyrim or Bethesda game, I would argue, but janky nonetheless.

[00:01:02] And I ran into a situation on a, basically the final quest of the game. The quest before the final quest of the game that leads into the finale, like the end. Mm-hmm.

[00:01:19] You, you get an armor set, like given to you. And I, me thinking like, oh, this is like better than the armor that I have. So I took my other armor and I like unequipped a bunch of it. Stored it away in a chest, thinking that I'd be able to get back to it, right? Oh no. So I start the quest, I get really deep into this quest. I realize this armor gets taken from you randomly, like halfway through.

[00:01:49] And so I was left with none of my gear. And so you're in this super long stretch of this final quest line of the game where you can't get access to the open world or go back to anything. And I was just getting absolutely decimated, like in combat. And because I had optimized my build to be like a knight, essentially, like heavy armor. I basically optimized my build where I was just heavy armor knight that could take no damage, essentially. I could just get hit over and over again. I like couldn't die.

[00:02:18] So were you basically just naked? So I basically just had like a shirt on. So any combat situation, I didn't have any like agility where I could kind of hop around and dodge stuff, which is what you do if you kind of go the other way with combat. Yeah. And so I was just getting totally rocked. So I had to restart this main quest line, which ended up being not that big of a deal because you can kind of skip through dialogue.

[00:02:45] And I was able to do some things slightly differently that worked out better. But incredible game, man. I'm excited for our episode on it. I know you're it's huge. So bear with us because it's going to take some time. I think Jake Jake obviously plays a million games. So I think it's going to take it's going to take him some time to get through it. I completely just zeroed in on this game over the past like month and I haven't touched anything else. Literally. Nice. So, yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:14] My schedule has been just super wonky lately. I haven't had much play time in the evenings, but that should change. So I'm hoping to to really dig in to some kingdom come deliverance to make some serious progress with my old boy, Henry and my old dog, Mutt. Henry. Dude, it's it's definitely my front runner for a game of the year immediately, though. I, you know, honestly, I haven't played much this year. That game was so big.

[00:03:44] So, yeah, that is quite a beefy game from what I'm next up is avowed. So more and more to come on about Jake. What have you been playing when you have time? Well, let's see. Finally getting back into kingdom come deliverance to let's see. What have I been playing? I started Nyad, which is just gorgeous indie game. Um, it's like a very chill Zen game.

[00:04:13] So it pairs really well when I'm playing more intense games. Um, yeah, let's see here. I have actually picked up Final Fantasy six again for the first time in a month and a half, probably. Oh, and I am frustrated that I still haven't finished Metaphor Re-Fantasio despite being like incredibly deep into it. How many hours are you in Metaphor now? I am over 60 hours into Metaphor Re-Fantasio.

[00:04:43] Um, I am at this section. It's like the, from what I understand, it's the last like calendar section for prep. I feel like I've maxed out everything I could possibly do. And I have just a few days left to take on the dungeon. Um, listen, this game, the thing is, is like everything about the game is still really good and it's really fun to play. Yeah.

[00:05:09] But this final stretch here is stretched way too thin. Uh, it just goes on and on and on and on. And, uh, I just kind of wish, I don't know. I'm starting to think that my tolerance is 60 hours max for a game. Is that, sorry, did you say the hours? How many was it? 60. Holy smokes. Yeah.

[00:05:34] I mean, 60 feels like rookie numbers, but if you listen to this show long enough, you should know that Jake and I come from a very specific cloth of gamer that is in it for like the vast array of experiences, right? Like not to grind away on one game for a thousand hours. Although Jake has done that. I mean, we've both done that kind of on destiny. Um, but I don't think we do that anymore. I think those days are over. Those days are over.

[00:06:02] And so it's funny because this, for me, I've kind of, I don't know, proclaimed that it's the year of the JRPG for me. Cause there's a bunch that have caught my attention. And for whatever reason, that genre is really clicking with me right now. But I'm like, man, I'm like reevaluating. They're all crazy beefy. Yeah. Yeah. I'm reevaluating like the ones that I really want to focus on this year because metaphor has been kind of testing my personal like patience with a single game right now.

[00:06:31] So 60 hours, I think is definitely the cap and metaphor is a game that I have been super excited about playing. And so the games that I have been looking at, I don't think there's any one that's longer than 40 hours. And I'm like, man, I better love that game. Otherwise I probably won't finish it, you know? So those are the games I've mostly been playing. I've been playing a bunch of different games on stream, but that feels a little different because they tend to be really short indie games. Right.

[00:06:59] So, for example, I just finished one today. That's B-Z-Z-Z-T. It's this tightly packaged, beautiful precision platformer. And I'm actually prepping. So a little bit of a promotion here. In April, I'm planning a really big indie impressions episode talking about like the post Celeste precision platformer landscape. Very cool.

[00:07:28] I've been playing a bunch of these precision platformers and I'm developing really strong opinions about what lessons have been learned from Celeste and which ones are working, which ones aren't. So stay tuned for that. That'll be a beefy one. That episode and more you can get on patreon.com slash pre-order cast when you sign up for one of the tiers, including if you just want to get Jake's indie impressions, you can just sign up the indie pass. Three bucks a month. You get Jake's, all of Jake's endless outpouring of indie content.

[00:07:57] So if that's your bag, you can get it there. Plus, you can get a whole bunch of other stuff. So go check that out. Yep. That episode will be exclusive to the Patreon as well. So keep that in mind. Well, Jake, we got not too much news. Death's Journey 2 coming in June. Still haven't watched the trailer because they dropped this on a Sunday for some reason. Like they were trying to hide it.

[00:08:26] It's okay, dude. It's a 10 minute video. It's a Hideo Kojima like self-indulgent piece of art. Yes. Death's Journey 2 is Kojima entirely unbridled. Unhinged. There's nothing holding this man back. He is sprinting forward butt naked into the great unknown of what video games can accomplish. And no one can stop it.

[00:08:54] No, and they're miles behind this guy struggling, trying to catch up. And dude, I know like, I mean, Cameron and I, we both really like Death Stranding. I actually highly recommend you go listen to the episode because we have great things to say about it. Tooting my own horn again. But dude, this game looks just absolutely bonkers. It is more than a fever dream. This is like you are on death's door.

[00:09:16] You have a 130 degree fever and you are hallucinating things that you never thought should ever be in the same room simultaneously. Dude, I love it, man. I just love that there is... I just love it when a creator can just be unhinged and just do whatever they want. They've got nothing stopping them.

[00:09:43] Now, does that always result in the greatest of outcomes? Not always, but I mean, in the case of Hideo Kojima, like I feel pretty confident. Like he'll make something pretty dope, you know? I mean, at the very least, all of like the fever dream stuff aside, you're going to be walking around in some really beautiful environments. Oh, it's stunning. Yeah. It's stunning looking. So I'm really looking forward to that.

[00:10:10] Just cruising around, delivering packages, listening to indie rock band Low Roar, who I think contributed like eight or nine tracks to Death Stranding 1. Really cool tracks too, yeah. Yeah. It was actually, yeah. So yeah, that's... Man, I felt like something big happened. Maybe it was... And Pokemon, right? And Pokemon? What did Pokemon do? Pokemon Arc Led Legends announced a new one. Oh, yeah, that was...

[00:10:40] Was that a while ago? Did we talk about that last time? I think we talked about that. I don't think we... Did we? Oh, wow. It happened a couple weeks ago. Cameron and I are deep into it right now. It's a new Legends game, right? Yeah. Pokemon Legends ZA. Okay. Honestly... Which I'm a fan of Legends. I actually had a lot more fun with like Legends Archaea than I've had with any of the new Pokemon, like the mainline Pokemon games. So that's...

[00:11:10] Honestly, and this looks like a really cool version of that. They've... They're keeping that battle system, which is really good. But what they're adding to it is like cooldowns and distances on all the attacks. So for example, you can have an attack that charges really quickly and you can use it over and over again. But it has a really like short range. Or like a more powerful attack, but it has a bigger range.

[00:11:37] And so a big part of this will be positioning your Pokemon in the middle of battle. And dealing with all the regular Pokemon turn-based stuff that you're used to. So I'm super curious. I honestly think that this is a really good idea. And I love that Pokemon is like, you know what? Let's make a spinoff series where we start getting more creative with this formula. And this is going to be on Switch 2 locked at 60 frames, right? Locked at 60 frames?

[00:12:06] Let's not get too ahead of ourselves. But... Nintendo doesn't even know what that means. We say like frames per... I don't... What's frames per... I don't understand what you're... Nintendo will pick a random frame number. They'll be like, you know what? This game runs at a solid 47.3. Yeah. Yeah. This is what it is. Drops to 3 in some areas. Well...

[00:12:35] I felt like there was some other stuff in the news, but... Probably more layoffs, but... We don't... Always. I mean, always more layoffs. Probably more. I shouldn't laugh about that. It's a laugh of sadness, everybody. Yeah. There's pain in there. There's a laugh of pain. Oh, yeah. I posted on the Discord today. Microsoft announced co-pilot for video games.

[00:13:03] This is literally just like the super old version of ChatGPT hooked up to... Like that's in like a box in like the top right of your screen while you're playing Age of Empires. It's the dumbest implementation of AI that I've seen yet. Yeah. And literally has no value whatsoever.

[00:13:23] Literally, it would be the same as just opening up a ChatGPT window in your other monitor and just typing your question in. Right? Instead, co-pilot's going to bug you with like pop-ups like while you're playing your video game. Yeah. You know, it's basically just going to be Clippy from Microsoft Word. Clippy's back, everybody. Just yapping away. Peanut gallery. Critiquing your gameplay.

[00:13:53] Would you like me to describe how this unit works to you? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Let me ask. Shut up, Clippy. You're playing a farmysim? Let me look up all the fanfic that we have about the NPCs. I will read this out loud to you at 300% volume. Oh, my gosh. Just stop. Stop. There's good uses for AI. That's not one of them. That's ain't it, chief. Yeah. This is 100% to just appease some investors.

[00:14:22] Dude, we got co-pilot and gaming. They are scrambling to figure out how to make this profitable. Dude, AI for the longest time now has really just been, hey, we have a solution, but we need a problem for it. We need to invent problems. Can we invent some problems that AI could be a solution to?

[00:14:44] The business model for AI that is going to actually be the one that works is whoever comes out on top, whether that's ChatGPT, Grok, Claude, whatever, right? There's like six of them now. Whichever one comes out on top, every business right now is working on AI products and widgets, right?

[00:15:13] Almost pretty much every single tech company. They will have an API connection to whatever the top AI model is. The AI company is going to charge a rate per second cost, like a request per second cost. And they're going to jack up.

[00:15:35] And then once all these tech companies have built a whole bunch of infrastructure on top of this AI, they're going to incrementally increase the price of that rate. And at that point, they'll be too far embedded into the AI. And so this is how AI makes a trillion dollars. Great. So, yeah. Love it, man. That's where we're going. Yeah. Big fan of that. That sarcasm, by the way. Just a quick breakdown of the AI business for you. Anyways, ladies and gentlemen, that's enough about that.

[00:16:03] This episode, we're going to talk about how AI, the story of how AI is going to take away your creativity by talking about split fiction. Jake, how are we going to break down this one? We are going to be talking about split fiction, the brand new co-op required game from Hazelight Studios. Co-op required.

[00:16:31] I recently learned that I think it's actually Hazelight and not Hazelight. I'm a little embarrassed about that. Wouldn't have known either way. Yep. We're going to talk about this in three categories. The first one is the narrative. We'll be talking about the story. There are two main characters, so we'll talk about them as well. What their motivations are and kind of what unfolds. If you're new to the pre-order bonus podcast, know that we really only talk about the first 20, 30% of a story. So no major spoilers will be coming your way. We talk about the game mostly thematically.

[00:17:01] Next, we'll be talking about the game design. So essentially how the game plays and what you're doing and how that feels and how that works and where maybe it doesn't work if that's the case. And then finally, impact on the industry. This game is brand spanking new. It came out a week ago as of us recording this episode. So we're going to be a little more speculative, but also we're going to be talking a lot about this studio in particular and these types of games.

[00:17:27] If you remember the previous game from Hazelight Studio, it takes two, one game of the year. It sold, I think the one that... I want to say that they said it sold like 13 million copies. Something like that. Like a really huge amount. Oh, interesting. And we'll be talking about kind of what we can expect from Split Fiction and the future of games like this. Split Fiction is very timely. Yeah. Split Fiction is a...

[00:17:56] The narrative is about two young women writers who get publishing deals with a tech company. And they're going in thinking that they're like getting a book deal and that they're going to go into this machine and going to have their book idea sucked into this giant machine that's going to be turned into like VR or something. Right?

[00:18:25] So some type of like entertainment experiences, so on and so forth. They get... For some reason in order to do this, you have to go inside like a bubble. Why not? That's not explained really, but you're in a bubble. I think because it's like virtual reality. I don't know. Anyway, they find out that somehow the two girls get trapped together in the same bubble and the CEO of this tech company doesn't like that for some reason.

[00:18:53] And then they find out because there's like a crack in the bubble, they overhear them talking about what their real plan is, which is to get all these creators, writers, etc. Steal all of their ideas so that they can generate unlimited entertainment and story and content. Does this sound familiar so far to the real world?

[00:19:16] We haven't invented the plasma bubble yet, but I'm sure that some tech guy saw his kids playing split fiction and was like, you know what? What if we... It's interesting because like... It's... Yeah, because like they can kind of already do that and they already do that. All of these AI models that exist in the world, they're already sucking in everything. Legality to the wayside, right? Because no one's going to stop them. Yeah.

[00:19:44] But they're already sucking in everything. Netflix. So actually, did you see recently, Jake, speaking of this, this is very poignant. Tony Gilroy, season one of Andor. Yeah. Did you see this? No, I didn't. He purposefully did not release the scripts to the public because he doesn't want ChatGBT to consume it. Okay. He doesn't want the AI to consume it.

[00:20:08] That is pretty wild because from what I understand, it's relatively standard practice to release scripts to the public for educational use. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So he was like, no, this is clearly an incredible script. Clearly, he must really like it. And he's like, no, like, I don't want the AI to grab this and like, you know, bastardize it or whatever. Oh, dang. Super interesting, right? Because that's exactly what like the plot, this is what this plot revolves around.

[00:20:37] This idea of what creativity means, what it what's the value and of ideas, who owns ideas. Should you give the rights to your ideas and your thoughts and your creativity away in exchange for to make a living? Right. These are struggling. These both these women are like struggling writers who need the money for various reasons. Right. So super real world.

[00:21:04] Now, the execution of that like actually like a pretty interesting idea, like the execution of that narrative, I think kind of gets lost a little bit. Like you're not I never I never I don't never really found myself super invested like in the characters or their plight. I don't think they get a good job of giving any like suspense or stakes to what was going on other than oh, all creativity will be lost.

[00:21:31] It was like, well, I and it's just because like there's so much fun, weird game there that like the pacing is just terrible. Oh, yeah. It's just math. It's just really, really bad pacing. And I and it it's one of those situations where I'm like, this pacing is bad. I'm not interested in the story. I don't really care, though, because this game is just kind of doing wild stuff from a mechanics standpoint and from a gameplay standpoint.

[00:21:58] So anyway, super cool, like concept from a plot perspective, not well executed. That was my take. Yeah, it's such a shame because the idea is great and it's very, you know, timely, but it is flat as heck narrative. Like, yeah, there's I would even venture to say that it's not even that there's like too much back and forth between the two protagonists. And it's not even that the voice acting is poor.

[00:22:28] It's no, it's pretty good. It's just that the writing feels relatively hollow. And I don't know. They're arguing. It feels like it's written by AI. Oh, that is it feels like it's written by the it's it's the very thing that they sought to destroy has destroyed. No, I'm kidding. It does.

[00:22:52] Yeah, it doesn't feel like it's written by AI, but it does feel like it feels like it is just not willing to take things on too seriously because it's trying to, I don't know, be lighthearted. And it appeals to like an everyone audience. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:14] It's like it's totally it's a family game, but as swear words in it sometimes and sometimes it like treads into like, oh, here's the serious situation. Like the girl's dad is, you know, she's ill and she like took this contract so she could pay for him. And then in the next scene, you're like farting around as like a magical pig. Right. So, like, yeah, it's it's weird. It's like Disney fide, if you will, where it's right.

[00:23:44] It's meant to be a family friendly package. And sure, it is like my kids playing it. They don't have any qualms about the writing. But me like playing with them and listening to it, I'm like, man, this this game needed to do something a little riskier, something a little more bold because it's a little tiresome. I feel like to just hear the two protagonists kind of be like, you like this thing? That's crazy.

[00:24:13] I don't like that thing. Why does your fantasy story have fantasy elements? Because I like fantasy. Fantasy is lame, bro. No sci-fi is better. Yeah. I roll, you know, like and we're being maybe I don't I don't even think we're being too harsh here. I think we're being pretty honest. Actually, a lot of this is easy to forgive because of other aspects of the game that are so remarkable. But it's like, man, you have this great idea. You have this great concept.

[00:24:39] It's a shame that things didn't like slow down a little bit and be a little just like a little more methodical, a little more contemplative. And then a little more bold about what it is that you want to say about these things. So, yeah, narratively, it's I don't know. It treads water quite a lot. And it's slow moving because these characters are stuck kind of repeating the same ideas.

[00:25:06] You know, they just shout the ideas back and forth out of each other about how can you like this? Yeah. It's not great writing, even if the themes are really cool. Yeah, I agree. And maybe it's a situation where I don't know. I don't want to try and explain like why the writing is not good.

[00:25:29] I'm trying to and maybe I think what I was going to say is maybe it's one of those situations where like the creativity of the set pieces and the design of like the design of the game in general just did not lend itself to creating the story beats. It's that like the writers maybe wanted to or maybe thought. I don't know. Right.

[00:25:52] Maybe they didn't feel like they had enough time to do anything except just have the characters tell you exactly what's happening on screen. Right. There's no time for subtext or nuance or like exploring, you know, the backgrounds of these writers or, you know, anything like that. Right. There's no time for any of that because you're just right in the action. I mean, I think that's possible.

[00:26:17] I also think that this game is like purposely written for family friendly audiences. Yeah. They know that people, they know that grownups are playing with their kids or in the case of Cameron and I, that our kids sometimes are just playing along without us. Right. And so I think they were just trying to target a different audience and a lot of, I think, reviewers and just grownups maybe broadly aren't the audience that they are writing for. Right.

[00:26:45] I got to say, though, like the two main characters, Zoe and Mio, they do kind of feel like a little clueless, a little like dreamy maybe about what a writing profession is like. And so. Yes. One of my readings of this game is just like. They seem to be incredibly unrealistic examples of writers. They are definitely not believable as writers. I would say that. Yeah.

[00:27:15] They are certainly not experienced writers. And I'm thinking that maybe this works in favor of the game, because what kind of writer is going to be kind of whisked away into this fantasy job of like, hey, come in here and we'll give you this publishing contract for your ideas. Unpublished, you know, unknown, small time writer. And so it definitely feels like the two protagonists are in love of the idea of being a writer.

[00:27:42] Like it's very romanticized for them rather than actually being writers. And I don't know. I'm like, this could work narratively because it does make it naive enough for the story to happen. But at the same time, it just feels flat. I will say the story. I think maybe what you're getting at.

[00:27:59] Well, I'm not going to say what you're trying to say, but where I, I actually resonated a little bit more with it because I do actually personally romanticize the idea of being a writer like a lot in my own life. It's one of those things where I'm like, man, this would be, I know that this would be the worst thing ever, but the idea of it just enthralls the crap out of me. You know what I mean?

[00:28:27] I listened to, oh my gosh, what's the super famous podcast? I can't remember the guy's name. The Pre-Odobonus Podcast. Pre-Odobonus Podcast, yeah. Number one podcast across the universe. Tim Ferriss show. Tim Ferriss, major, one of the biggest podcasters up there with like Joe Rogan. Anyway, he did this like four hour interview with Brandon Sanderson. Oh boy. And I was just like fascinated by like the whole thing.

[00:28:55] He just like talks about his whole process and like his little business, Dragonsteel and like all. And yeah. So like I, I was, I admit that I was, I was react a little bit more reactive to the characters because I do hold that fantasy in my head. But again, but to your point, it's like, this wasn't a good, it didn't really explore that at all. Right. So yeah. So yeah.

[00:29:25] Lots of opportunity here for a really, really solid story that could resonate in many different ways. But it was just, they just eased off the gas too much in favor of other aspects of the game that really do stand out. Yeah. So they could be a Disney Channel movie. Which I like Disney Channel movies, but. Johnny Tsunami. Classic. That's an incredible film. Should be Oscar worthy. Yeah. No.

[00:29:54] It's not, but I like it. But it's fun. And I think, I think I do like this. I think I will say that I like this, but it's not good. Right? Like the writing's not good. The story's not good, but I don't not like it. Does that make sense? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. No, it does make sense. We could sit here and nitpick all day long about this. But I think part of the reality too is just like, you know, this is not why I'm in it. And it's serviceable. Yes. It helps move things forward. It explains why we're jumping between sci-fi and fantasy worlds.

[00:30:24] It basically is doing its job, which is to explain why the mechanics exist and how they exist. And with that, let's move into the mechanics, the design conversation. Jake, is this the best co-op game ever made? Well, let's start out with a bang. Um, this, in my opinion, is way more fun than It Takes Two, which is a good game. Oh, okay.

[00:30:53] I think as far as like couch co-op goes, what split fiction does mechanically, because you are constantly helping each other to get through puzzles. I actually feel like this is less common than you might think. Because when I think of like classic co-op games, I think about couch co-op games. Yeah.

[00:31:40] Or even like a couch cooperative game. Maybe it is. Maybe I think it probably is the best couch co-op game ever made. Probably. And I say that just because like of the sheer number of ideas, well-executed ideas at play in this game that are just basically never. And there's never ending variety here. Right.

[00:32:08] It's like every possible two-player required scenario that they could come up with that they put on a whiteboard. They jammed into this game like you would not believe. Yeah. And not in a bad way, like in a good way. Right. Where it's just like, man, the idea factory at the studio, they just had a, I guarantee you, they just had a whiteboard and they were just like, how many of these can we get in this game? Like, let's race. Yeah. Like who can, right.

[00:32:40] And then they have the benefit of like, they also give you a science fiction game and a fantasy game, like right in the same game too. So that brings other advantages. Um, but like structurally wise, it's all these different, like cooperative scenarios switching back and forth. You're basically the, they tie it to the plot by saying like, well, you're trying to find these glitches in the system.

[00:33:05] And so each of these glitches introduces like some creative space in these writers minds where they have created some kind of book or narrative or situation. And so you go and you do hop back and forth between like a science fiction one for the one girl and a fantasy one for the other girl. Um, and that's how they kind of set the stage.

[00:33:26] And then they just literally just plop within these different narrative set pieces, five, six, seven, sometimes more than 10 different like co-op type things. Sometimes they have like one mechanic that they'll use throughout and then they'll use it in different ways. Sometimes it changes halfway through. I mean, the variety here is off the charts. I'm going to say two controversial things about this in favor of split fiction.

[00:33:54] I would say that the amount of perspective shifting when it comes to progressing through a level, put something like near Tomada to shame. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I know. I know. Like near Tomada is famous for a lot of things and beloved by many, for many. Don't tell Rob. Yeah, I know that was risky saying that, but, uh, one aspect that people like about it and near Tomada does incredibly well is shifting game genres and perspectives. Your 2d, your top down, you do all this stuff.

[00:34:24] Split fiction, I think does infinite, does it infinitely more and does it better. Like, uh, I wish just, man, you seriously, you're never running out of ideas. I think the other thing here is I'd also say that like if super Mario Bros. wonder has a fun gimmick in every level that works. Yeah. Split fiction has multiplied that by 10 because you're doing that. You're doing those gimmicks multiple times in a single level or in a single scenario.

[00:34:51] So just to kind of iterate on your point here about the creativity and ideas that they had on a whiteboard. I don't know how they made them all fun. It kind of, that's, that's a really crazy thing. That's exactly what I was about to say. I can honestly say there was not one mini game that I played and maybe, maybe there was one, but or two, but like the vast, vast, vast majority, I was never sitting there being like, Oh my gosh, like this is boring.

[00:35:20] Like, let's go to the next thing. Or like, this felt like none of them felt like that. And have you done some of the side stories? Yeah. Some of the best content is in the side stories. Like my kids at this point, they refuse to skip a side story, which is a good thing. And then if I'm playing with them or I'm watching them, I'm like, all right guys, let's see what's in here. Like, I'm genuinely excited. Like, okay, what's in the side content here? What are we going to do? Yeah. What are they going to throw at me this time? It's going to be some crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:48] And it, the best part about all this, we haven't talked like about the nitty gritty mechanics because this game has pretty much every mechanic under the sun in it. It can, right? Like, it's too many. Yeah. It's too many. But the thing is, and Cameron and I were talking about this before we started recording, is the game is so polished and optimized. And every single one of these mechanics that you kind of cycle through in a level feels as if it belongs to the genre from which it is borrowed.

[00:36:18] It is just a smooth as butter experience going from point to point to point as you progress through the game. Yeah. Yeah. It really is an impressive feat technically because it plays flawlessly 60 frames, maybe even more. I don't know. Like, it just, it feels, it looks incredible. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:39] Um, and yeah, like, how in the world did they figure out how to make like 900 different mechanics feel super fun when some games can't even get like one? You know what I mean? Like, yeah. Like, some games that only have four or five mechanics can only get like a couple of them that are fun. And this game is doing, and maybe it's because it's these small isolated situations and if you do that, right, you're only, you don't have to do it for like the whole length of a game.

[00:37:08] You just get to do it like in this little microcosm and then you kind of move on to the next thing. And that's probably why, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's, it's a unique experience that you're not going to get anywhere else. And the fact that they require you to play it with two players, I think is just perfect. And then having the whole like friend pass, right? Yeah. Where it's, your friend can have a free copy. It's just such a unique offering and just such a unique design.

[00:37:37] I'm just thrilled like that it even exists. That to me is super bonkers. And this isn't new to their games. They've done this friend pass before. And I love this kind of, the solution that they have where it's like, okay, we want to play. You know, I, you know, I'm not buying that game right now or I can't do that with my budget. And somebody's like, well, I can. If I give you the friend pass, will you just play? And I love this.

[00:38:05] If you're going to require co-op, right? Having this type of solution, I think is kind of necessary to get more people to buy in like literally to the game. And so I'm really glad that they do that. But also when I saw this game, it was the Game Awards that it was announced. It was only announced like three months ago. Good on them, Hazelight, for doing this. But when I saw that too, I was like, well, I know this game is going to have split, you know, screen co-op.

[00:38:35] So I can play this online or I can just play this with my kids. Hey, why don't I just play this one with my kids? And they're having a freaking blast playing through it. So yeah, but I want to just echo something that you said. I think you're right. I think why this game can still be fun is because mechanically the pacing is very quick. And you do not dwell on these different genres. They're only going to take up a few minutes of your time. I would say like 10 minutes maximum, probably for any of these scenarios.

[00:39:06] And I don't know. Do 10 minutes really well seems to be a great strategy here to make your game have a lot of longevity. To really get people to work through the entirety of a game. It's actually really fascinating. I'm trying to think. The only other game I can think that's like close to it that takes that approach that's recent is the UFO. Oh, UFO 50. UFO 50. Similarly, right? It's like a billion games in one.

[00:39:36] Which is a similar idea, right? You're just... They got together. They got a bunch of developers. They made just a bunch of stuff that they wanted to make. And they stuffed it all into one game. And that's kind of what this game is. I can't think of like a whole lot of other projects that are taking that approach. Right? For obvious reasons, probably. Because, right, you want to... You know, if you're creating like a cohesive experience. And you're kind of building it around maybe one or two mechanics. I get that.

[00:40:03] But it is a super interesting, unique approach that is just executed so well here. I mean, these guys clearly... They've identified this unique niche that they have had incredible success with. Probably shockingly. This, like... It Takes Two on paper probably is a total failure. But somehow, like, that game just did super well. And allowed them to make this one. And kind of go to the next level with it. And I'm super glad it did. Yeah. And that reminds me.

[00:40:33] I actually need to have to make a correction here. UFO 50, it's called. Yeah, UFO 50. I said that It Takes Two sold 13 million copies. It's actually sold as of December 2024. 20 million copies. 20 million? Are you serious? So, this great article, the one that I'm finding the true information from is on Polygon. This is... The title of it is, wait, how has It Takes Two sold 20 million copies? This is by Ollie Welsh. Yeah.

[00:41:03] That is nuts, bro. And you know what's interesting? I'm going to actually read the last paragraph of this article here. The game sold really well in China, in addition to Western markets. Oh, very cool. And so, Ollie Welsh says here, There you have it. If you want to sell 20 million copies of your game, identify something that large numbers of players want, but nobody else is doing. Preferably with a multiplayer component. For added virality.

[00:41:32] Also, make sure it's globally palatable and can penetrate any market. That's far from easy, but it is surprisingly quite simple. So, funny how, you know, that's kind of the conclusion that they came up to. I think that's a great segue into the impact on the industry. I think this is a fascinating case study in our industry conversations. And that paragraph you just read is really interesting.

[00:41:59] What stands out to you most from that paragraph? Do you want me to reread it? Or do you have something in mind? No, I don't think so. I mean, I think... I'm curious... Was it because it's couch co-op? And there's just a massive... Like, nobody makes... I'll tell you this. Like, nobody makes couch co-op games anymore. They are pretty rare. They are very, very rare. The biggest one I can think of recently is Baldur's Gate 3. Right.

[00:42:29] And you see how well that did. That wasn't necessarily because it was couch co-op. I think most people don't play that game co-op. But the fact that you can... And not only can you play it online, you can play it couch. And you can play it cross-play. It's pretty nuts on top of everything they did with that game. Right? Mm-hmm. There is a... I'll say this. I don't know if it was... I don't know what it is and what made it pop off in China. But there is a huge hole in the couch co-op. Like, there's just not enough.

[00:42:59] I constantly am looking for couch co-op games to play with my kids. Like, anything couch co-op, I will even... I'll give it a shot. Just because I want something that I can sit next to my kid on the couch and, like, play with him. The other thing this game does is, like, the puzzles are not too hard. It's, like, not too bad. So, you can play with your kids and you can kind of get through it. And it's not crazy. Right? But, yeah.

[00:43:26] No, just from an industry perspective, it's just a fascinating case study of finding a niche, doing it super well, doing exceptional execution in that niche where nobody else is really doing that. And it leading to incredible success. And I'm not saying, like, that's a guarantee, right? Of having incredible success. But, man, finding a niche is...

[00:43:53] If you can find that and you can do something that nobody else is doing, it just seems to... It seems to just pay major dividends in the gaming world. Yeah. It's so funny because... And we've talked about this, you know, ad nauseum every episode. Because we're in this super, you know, tight, risk-adverse moment. Especially in AAA, but in the games industry.

[00:44:22] But who is it that's still eking out success? Like, lots of success? It's people doing stuff unique. Stuff that breaks the mold. And I think something like It Takes Two and Split Fiction just kind of address a reality of the gaming world that maybe a lot of other companies and industries just don't either... They don't want to tackle or they choose to ignore for whatever reason.

[00:44:49] And that's that within a single household, you have multiple gamers. And they might want to play with each other every now and then, right? As opposed to just like everything is online. And it's funny because I think during the pandemic, there was this idea that, okay, online co-op is the way to go. Because people are stuck at home and they can play with their friends and they can still maintain relationships while in separate houses, right?

[00:45:19] Right. But there are still people... I mean, it's interesting to me. And I would love to see like a study. If there is a household and one person... Is it more common that in a household there are multiple people who are playing video games? Or is it just one person per household that is the quote-unquote gamer?

[00:45:37] Because it seems like the industry believes that the gamer who's out there spending money and spending time gaming does not have a family or does not live in a household with other people who are going to play games. And, you know, this is all anecdotal, but it just makes me wonder, like, couch co-op, something that's family friendly, you know, why are we avoiding these? Because it seems like that's got to be way more common than not.

[00:46:06] I mean, it seems... It's definitely not easy, but it seems easy. It's like give players a ton of value, make something that performs, that's optimized and performs well, that's fun to play, and then provide gamers with a huge amount of value. Yeah. This game checks all those boxes. And if you look at the most successful games over the past few years, the games that check those boxes are typically super successful, right?

[00:46:35] And then you have live service stuff, which is this whole thing, right? But that's been... But the thing about that is, like, executives are still caught up on that billion dollar marker, right? Of the Fortnite that we talk about every episode, pretty much. They're still caught up on that number because it's such a big number. And even though It Takes Two sold 20 million copies, it's not a billion still, right?

[00:47:05] It's hundreds of millions, but it's not a billion. And so because it's not a billion, they're going to ignore this huge... It's a billion dollars, but to me is, like, a major, major data point in this industry conversation is, like, we should be looking at games like It Takes Two that make no sense on paper. But we should be looking at this outlier, right? Like, why aren't we looking at this? We're going to get...

[00:47:30] And when you have outliers like this, this is where usually you find the deepest insights from a data perspective. Usually what people think is, well, if I need to aggregate all of everything together and I'm just going to look at, like, what the average is. When in reality, kind of, and a lot of times when you look individually at the outliers, that's where the gems are.

[00:47:56] Like, the interesting insights, that's where you find them because they're on the extremes of either end. Right. And this is one of those cases. And I had this thought when you were talking about outliers in that this is an outlier that has proven to be reproducible. Like, Split Fiction... Yeah, they did it twice. Yeah. Split Fiction is going to sell well. And I know that it was an easy purchase for me because I had played It Takes Two.

[00:48:24] And because it takes two, one game of the year, and it's sold a lot, and it has... There's good rapport. You know, there's good reputation with the developer. And there's good experience and good word of mouth backing you all up. Right? And, of course, they had made games before this a way out. Right? I think that's what it's called. The prison breaking game. Similar forced couch co-op. Right? This is a model that works for them. But this outlier is reproducible.

[00:48:49] And so, this doesn't mean that you need to start making It Takes Two your version of it or split fiction. You know, split nonfiction by EA. I don't care. You know, whatever it is. But this is something that I'm starting to think a lot more about is we see all these unicorns happen all the time.

[00:49:13] And it makes me wonder, maybe unicorn level success is much more achievable outside the mold than we really think. I mean, it goes back to Sven's speech at the Game Awards to think he's saying exactly what you're saying. I don't know. Examples that come to mind are just like these indie smash hits like Vampire Survivors Bellatro. And now we're getting thousands of indie games that are kind of created in that wake. And some of them are really good.

[00:49:43] But it also just makes me think like... Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, Baldur's Gate 3, Split Fiction. Like, all these are outside of... Well, I won't say. They're not totally outside. Not all of them. But they're not chasing trends. Yes. They have a vision. They're doing... And look, that doesn't mean you're going to succeed.

[00:50:04] But to your point, it does seem like you have a higher chance to be, to your point, to go outside of what you expect is going to be the right decision. Right? So, yeah. So, put us in charge. We've got it all figured out, folks. Yeah. No, I mean, look. It's incredibly hard.

[00:50:28] You still have to make a game that's super fun for several dozen hours, which is no easy feat. And they've definitely done it here. So... Yeah. Yeah. So, will this guy be back on the stage at the Game Awards this fall, taking the Game of the Year Award? Taking the award? I think it's too early to tell. But on the stage, I know... I'm super confident Split Fiction is already getting some Game of the Year nominations. Yeah.

[00:50:58] Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Um... Kingdom Come Deliverance 2. Split Fiction. Whatever the next Mario game is. Dude, if this Claire Obscure game is as good as the previews are making it sound like... The previews were hot. I could see that getting, like, best role-playing game or something. The previews were very hot. Previews were hot.

[00:51:23] Well, Jake, any other thoughts on Split Fiction before we close it out for this week? One final thing to kind of discuss. Cameron and I have talked around this, but I just want to say it directly. This has been an awesome game for kids. Yes. Obviously, we are parent gamers. A lot of the people that listen to our show are also parent gamers.

[00:51:48] If you are on the fence about Split Fiction, man, it's... Yeah. I think you got to pick it up and play it with the kids. And at this point, and just to be clear, I haven't finished the game with my kids yet. But at this point, I'm spending less time with the controller. And it's a happy thing to see. It's a happy thing. Part of the reason why it's so happy, this is the biggest sales pitch for all of you parents out there, is my kids are getting along because they're forced to cooperate as they're going through all of these puzzles.

[00:52:18] So it's nice watching my two oldest play this game and be very happy about playing it and playing it with each other. Yeah. I think this is an excellent game. If you are looking to play something with anybody who's kind of new to gaming, younger, just this is an awesome, awesome family game. I agree. I agree, Jake. Well, ladies and gentlemen, this has been our episode on Split Fiction. Go check it out.

[00:52:48] If you've got a buddy who has this, you can get a free copy of it. Literally, the friend pass version. You can download play for free. Co-op with your friend. Play it with your wife. Fantastic to play with your kids. Couldn't recommend it enough. So yeah, go check this one out. If you enjoyed this conversation, this podcast, go give us a review on your podcast platform of choice. That helps people find the show. It helps us continue to grow. You can also support us directly on patreon.com slash period of cast, which like we mentioned

[00:53:16] earlier, you can sign up at any tier that makes sense for you either financially or based on all the content that you want. That includes extended editions of our regular episodes, special topics episodes, early access, and then you can also get access to all the stuff Jake's doing on the indie game scene. You can also join us on our Discord. Link to that is in the podcast description. You can join in the conversation even after the podcast is done. Please do that.

[00:53:44] Thank you so much for listening and have a great night.