Mixtape

[00:00:10] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome in. It's high time for looting for a podcast and it's The Pre-Order Bonus Podcast. I'm one of your hosts Cameron Warren and I'm joined by the pixel professor Jacob Prezio.

[00:00:26] So it's May 14th, 2026. Back to talk about video games. Jake, Forza Horizon 6 reviews dropped today. It's another 10 out of 10. Bang. I think we all expected this, right? Like we knew this was going to be the case basically.

[00:00:44] Um, yeah. I mean, basically it seemed like they, I'll be honest. I think people have, obviously people have been fans of this franchise for a really long time, right? We're at entry number six here. Um, and this is the Forza Horizon kind of offshoot of Forza. Anyway, way too long of a preface just to say that I got into, I'm not a huge fan of like racing games, but I loved Forza Horizon 5. That game was an absolute blast and it looked amazing. And I was like, I could get into this.

[00:01:12] This is the kind of racing game that makes sense to me. I saw a trailer for Forza Horizon 6. I was like, cool. It's the same game and it takes place in Japan. And they're probably going to add some things that are like specific to Japanese culture and locations. I was like, it's a winning formula. Why, why, you know, shift gears, pun intended. And I, it just kind of seems like they're, I don't know if they've hit a stride because I haven't played anything before five, obviously, but just seems like they got a, they got something that works. And so they put out something that works.

[00:01:42] They're happy. Imagine that. Yeah. I mean, they got a formula and they're apparently they nailed it again. Um, yeah, no shock there. I I'm looking forward to this one. I mean, I, I, I mean, I don't think it's gonna be like my main game or anything, but it'll be one that I probably dabble in and mess around in for at least a year, you know, on and off. And they always have tons and tons of extra content and, and, and all sorts of fun stuff in there.

[00:02:11] And the Japan setting is super dope as well. Um, my son, Drake, my son, Drake is super excited about this because he is weirdly obsessed with Japan for kind of no reason whatsoever. Yeah. Like literally no reason has no connection to Japan. Nothing like doesn't, hasn't even really barely watched like studio Ghibli films.

[00:02:34] Nice. Um, barely sort of semi adjacently into Pokemon. So I'm like, I don't understand the fascination, but like, I mean, I also kind of get it. Right. So, uh, anyway, he's, he's, I told him when it was in Japan and he was like, he was like, Whoa, are you serious? So he's excited.

[00:02:53] Newfound respect for dad. Dude, that's a win pocket. That one milk that one. I know. I know. Uh, yeah. He thinks all the games I work on are boring. Uh, PlayStation, except for Astro bot. Right. Astro bot does kind of rule. Um, and even, I mean, I work on games, but it's like adjacent, you know? Yeah. So anyway, uh, Jake, I don't know if you've heard of this game.

[00:03:21] Try me. The last of us two. Why did I think you were going to sometimes Cameron, you didn't know where I was going. You didn't know where I was going. Curveball. Curveball. This happens. Cameron will be like, all right, Jake, I've got a test for you or something. And I'm like, all right. I'm like sitting here gearing up mentally preparing. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Then it's the last of us two.

[00:03:43] Yeah. The last of us two. This is, I feel like not recently. We haven't been talking about the last of us two or the last of us like at all. Right. We did get season two of the TV show, which I didn't watch. I watched season one. I thought it was good. Season two. I heard was mid. I did not watch it, but I opened this up because I got the definitive edition quote unquote for free.

[00:04:10] When that came out. Okay. Because I owned the original game last year or year and a half ago or whatever. Anyways. And I had started a play through like a second playthrough because believe it or not, this is maybe one of the most like divisive games ever released.

[00:04:28] It's potentially, if you don't know why major, major spoilers, but you, you definitely, if you're like, even if you listen to this podcast, you definitely probably know the whole deal and spiel with the last of us two and why people, why it's so divisive. So I'm going to say that in the next five seconds. So if you want to play this game and you haven't, and it's in your backlog or whatever, skip ahead.

[00:04:52] Yeah. So the whole thing where like Abby, who's the daughter of one of like the doctors that Joel kills in the last of us one, Joel like murders this entire hospital of this group called the fireflies. And then like one of that person's kids is Abby, who you actually play as in the second half of the last of us two. Yeah. The whole thing, like the beginning of the game, she brutally murders Joel with a golf club, like smashes his face in.

[00:05:21] Yeah. And it's like this whole, anyway, the gamers hated it. I think it's, I actually really like this video game. Okay. And I actually think the story, even though I don't love the story from a sense of like, I don't really love how the story makes me feel. Which is okay.

[00:05:45] And I don't necessarily, which I don't, and I don't necessarily love like the kind of what maybe all the stuff that they do with the story. I do think it is extremely well executed. And I do think it is a really, really creative and fascinating way to tell the story the way that they did. I think they made some like really cool and interesting decisions. Jake, I know you've never played this and you never will. I actually own the last of us part two. This is why I'm looking at my phone.

[00:06:14] If you're watching this on YouTube, you knew about the giant spoiler. I did not know this game has, uh, I had been fortunate. So for example, I just started a horizon zero dawn, which has not been spoiled for me. Surprisingly, but the last of us part two was spoiled for me within like, I don't know, four days or something. Oh yeah. I mean, it was spoiled for me as well. Like I knew what happened in the beginning and it did anyway. So this game, for some reason, on a whim, I was just sitting on my PlayStation and I was like bored.

[00:06:43] And I'm again, I'm craving like that high production third person action. I'm basically in the bond waiting room as we've discussed. Um, so I was like, I just opened this up and dude, I gotta say, man, like the combat in this game is like really underrated. I think it's really good. It's like a fun mix of third person action, uh, melee and shooter combat. It's like the uncharted games, but maybe leveled up a little bit in terms of the combat mechanics.

[00:07:14] Um, so that's really fun. And then like, it was kind of, I had forgotten a lot of kind of how maybe the story plays out. And so I've been, I don't know, dude, it's just been for some, for whatever reason, it's kind of hooked me back in for a second playthrough. So yeah, I think I'm, I think I'm going to play through it. I mean, at least until bond comes out or forces installed. So that's super random. I may be the only person on the planet that's like replaying that game at this current moment.

[00:07:40] I'm just laughing because that game has been resold and repackaged like a thousand times. Oh yeah. Um, and the thing is the remaster to like the definitive edition. It literally does. I cannot tell any difference whatsoever. Nice. I mean, it's, it's gorgeous, but the original game was gorgeous. Maybe Cameron, you need a PS5 pro. And then you could see the difference. Maybe, maybe I would appreciate it more with the PS5 pro. This game is gorgeous.

[00:08:08] I will say that this game visually is still probably one of the best looking games ever made. Probably still, um, for sure. And it also takes place in Seattle, which is cool. Honestly, that's my biggest draw. I'm playing it. It takes place in Seattle. You would actually, so honestly, I think as a case study for this podcast, it could actually be a really fascinating episode of the show.

[00:08:34] I would be super, super interested in your perspective on this story and kind of the gameplay and the whole thing. I actually would be fascinated on your, your take on that game. Um, yeah. And sound off on the discord and the Patreon comments, YouTube comments, like thoughts on the last of us to hate it. Love it. Played it. Didn't play it. I feel like a lot of our audience has probably never played it to be honest. Yeah. You can also pressure me into playing it, which means I'll play it in two years or something.

[00:09:04] Yeah. Pressure Jake into play it. We have too many games coming out though. So Jake, you're not going to get around. I know. I keep eyeing, uh, the second half of games to be released in May. Um, and I mean the first half we had like a giant indie week between, uh, like May 5th and May 12th or so. Actually we can go to all the way up to today, May 14th. Just real quick. I'll list off like, let's see, uh, dead is disco.

[00:09:34] Alabaster dawn, early access mixtape, which we'll be talking about outbound call of the elder gods. And then like, uh, tether guys is another one that came out. Um, duck side of the moon came out. I don't know. There's, there's like a ton of indies that just came out. And then I feel like there's a small breather. And then we got all these really big triple A games coming out. So like Forza Horizon 6, um, let's see. Yoshi and the Mysterious Book is coming out.

[00:10:02] We have Zero Parades for Dead Spies. Now that's not a triple A game, but that is from the shadow of Zaum. The people made Disco Elysium. That game is coming out on the 21st. Lego Batman Legacy of the Dark Knight is coming out. Obviously, as we've been talking about, 007 First Light is coming out on the 27th. Um, and then again, this is technically, I mean, it's another indie game, but Mina the Hollower is finally coming out. That's May 29th. Like, yeah, dude, this, this is a wild month.

[00:10:33] There's a lot of video games coming out in the second half of May, for sure. I did. I mean, today alone, we got Subnautica 2 in early access. I can't believe I forgot about that. Which is nuts. I think it hit 400,000 concurrent players or something like that. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Switching topics from The Last of Us 2. I do think you should play it. Let us know. So, uh, bully Jake into playing The Last of Us 2 this summer. During the dry months, before the fall games hit, there's going to be a, like, two-week period where Jake's not going to have much to do.

[00:11:03] And he'll be able to play this. And here's the good news, Jake. It's only, like, 15 to 20 hours. Maybe 15. Yeah, I just pulled up how long to beat. God, dude, they got average play time here being 23. I mean, if I'm playing this game, I'm playing on the easiest mode. I already know that. Play on the easiest mode. Story mode all the way. Yep. Don't even worry about it. I actually like playing on the Super Hard difficulties because I think the combat is super fun. But for you, easy mode.

[00:11:33] Yeah, I'm thinking story mode mainline. That's how I would play Last of Us 2. That would be a good game to stream as well. Though not kid-friendly. I will say that. Not remotely kid-friendly. That's true. Not remotely kid-friendly. I'm thinking of one specific section. And yeah. Nope. Well, actually, a couple. Anyway. Sorry. We were talking about... Everything that's coming out. Subnautica 2. Subnautica 2. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:12:03] So, dude, Subnautica 2. We talked about this last week, I think. About that whole early access problem. Of like, you play a game in early access and you kind of like do it and then you're like, you did it. And then so then you're done. And they're saying like, this game's basically still got like two more years to go. But it feels like it's the launch. But it's like, dude, I... So then I'm like, I kind of don't want to play it. Because I... Because Subnautica has like a big story component. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't want to kind of want to play that and then like come back later. But I'm like, dude, two more years?

[00:12:33] Dude, it feels like we've been waiting like five years already to play this thing. I mean, Subnautica 2 with the whole craft on debacle and lawsuit and all this crap. Yes. I am not entirely certain. I mean, I know you've just said it, right? Like they're like, there's two more years on this game in early access. But at the same time, I'm kind of like, I don't know.

[00:12:56] Like it's probably like a very robustly complete early access launch based on what they had been saying about the game. As I kept getting delayed, not because of like quality or something. But I don't know. That is a whole giant mess. I did end up downloading it though. And I'll probably pop in there because Subnautica, and we did an episode on this. This is one of our first episodes. I want to say probably in our first 50, we did an episode on Subnautica maybe. Subnautica is great.

[00:13:26] And yeah, fantastic game. So I totally get the appeal of Subnautica 2. But dude, woof. That game comes with so much baggage at this point. I mean, like I said, I think it hit like a peak of 400,000 players. People are obviously interested in it. And I'm assuming because the first game was so good that it'll do incredibly well. But it's just kind of a weird game to consider. It's a renowned survival crafting game. One of the most popular for sure.

[00:13:54] I think I'm just like, I'm just like, dude, I just want the full game. I don't want to play a half-bent game. Yeah. I do support early access though. And so I think it's not me like hating on it. It's just me being like disappointed that that's the model that they went with, even though that is a good model. Right. Disappointed because I'm impatient. I just want to play the full thing right now. But I guess I can wait. I can wait. Yeah.

[00:14:23] I at least want the full story mode because I feel like they did such a good job with that in Subnautica 1. I don't want to mess it up. Yeah. I feel that way about Alabaster Dawn, which is the follow-up to CrossCode. Oh, right. Right. Same deal. Same deal. Early access. But it's like, what? Two more years? Early access. I think it is. Yeah. I actually think the dev said about two more years in early access. It looks incredible. But yeah, same thing. I'll be honest. I didn't finish CrossCode.

[00:14:49] CrossCode is a fantastic game, but there were components of it that like the dungeons in that game were just way, way too much for me personally. But yeah, Alabaster Dawn looks phenomenal. It's going to have another great story. And I feel the same way. It's like it's a game I would love to play right now, but I think I would enjoy it more at 1.0. Yeah, man. See, that's the thing. That's the problem with early access. I mean, I get why you do it.

[00:15:18] Baldur's Gate 3 was in early access for like three years. So, because I can't complain. Well, ladies and gentlemen, that's enough about that. Let's move to our main topic of today's show, which is critically acclaimed and recently released Mixtape. Jake, how are we going to talk about Mixtape on today's episode? Oh, Mixtape. Okay.

[00:15:44] We are going to be talking about Mixtape in a few categories as a signature to the pre-order bonus podcast. First, we'll be talking about the narrative. So, as is pretty normal for our show, we will not spoil things. We'll really just talk about like narrative details of the first 20 to 30% of the game. And then we will speak a little more zoomed out like thematically what the game is dealing with. Next, we'll move on to game design where we're talking about the nuts and bolts and kind of how you interact with the video game.

[00:16:14] And then finally, we'll talk about impact on the industry. I may need to be restrained. I just want to make this very clear right now. So, I have read way more reviews, thoughts, opinions, social posts on Mixtape than I have than I typically will allow myself to do with any game that's been released. And so, I'm going to keep myself reserved as much as I possibly can.

[00:16:42] But yeah, we'll be talking about impact on the industry because it seems like everybody in the industry has a strong opinion on Mixtape. Mixtape, this is a coming of age story in video game form. Takes place in the late 90s in a made up Northern California town.

[00:17:08] It's three best friends who are having sort of their last high school hurrah. And then the game kind of walks you through some of the seminal moments like in their high school lives. Again, taking place kind of in the late 90s. I'm a big fan of coming of age as a genre. Yeah. Like coming of age story.

[00:17:31] Love coming of age movies, especially like that 80s era where you have like a whole bunch of those like growing up, you know, coming of age stories are all awesome. Yeah. I will say right off the bat, these characters did not do anything for me. Whoa. Okay. Let's hear it. I don't know why. I honestly really don't know why.

[00:18:01] Like I really I went into this like not with some crazy high expectations, just kind of like and I was really, really excited for this. I think I don't know, dude. I just something about the make. I just didn't connect with the main characters. Not that I didn't like like them or think that they weren't cool or like whatever. I just didn't connect with them. And I think for a coming of age story, it's essential that I'd be able to connect. I think my theory is, is that it is the time period.

[00:18:30] I thought that this was a late, like an early 2000s coming of age story because I feel like we're in that period where we're old enough now where the coming of age stories are like early 2000s coded. And like when we were growing up, it was like 80s coded. You know what I mean? Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. And now this one's like 1990. So it was just like hard for me to connect with it. I think I think it was like it's like my older brother's like high school era. And so that was part of it.

[00:19:02] But like the general setup and kind of the whole idea behind it is like super cool. It's just like the time period just like just doesn't it's just like didn't do it for me. And neither did necessarily. Obviously, I was like some famous songs in here and a lot of like expensive licensed music and cool stuff. But yeah, dude, I just I think it's the time period for sure. I think I agree with you on the time period. I really liked these characters. And I'll kind of I'll go to that in a second here. But yeah. Yeah, please. For the time period. Right. It is.

[00:19:31] It's really unusual because you read all the descriptions of this game and it says it takes place like in the 90s. And that feels it feels it's written quite vaguely. And I think in the game it is described quite vaguely. I was really surprised that most of the music references were much older than in fact, I think one of the main songs. This is maybe a slight spoiler is Candy by Iggy Pop.

[00:20:01] And they do mention like Green Day at some point. But OK. But the music by and large is 80s focused or earlier, which to me, it was interesting. So the main character is Stacy. Right. Stacy is always Rockford. Right. Stacy Rockford. Yep. She reminded me of myself my freshman year of college.

[00:20:29] Just an absolute snobby music punk. See, there you see. There you go. You had that connection, bro. I think that that's so huge. You know what I mean? That's so huge for this one. It's huge. The thing that I mean, when and this is the thing about coming of age stories, it's like when you want to like critically analyze like any piece of art. It is important to maintain yourself detached.

[00:20:54] So sorry, we're going to get into lecture mode here because this is what I tell my students all the time when they're analyzing like novels or poetry, whatever it is. And it's that there's a difference between analysis and meditation. And analysis essentially is you assessing the different formal details, poetic devices, narrative devices of a piece of art. And it is always about the art that you are analyzing.

[00:21:19] Meditation is when you take a theme or idea that's present in the art and you use that to analyze your own life, which isn't a bad thing. But it's no longer a critical analysis or engagement of the art piece. Does that make sense? Right. Yeah. And so this is this with the coming of age stories. They are designed for you to engage with them in a more meditative or contemplative way than they are in an analytical way.

[00:21:48] Of course, you can perform a critical, artistic and formal analysis of any piece of coming of age art. Totally. You know, it happens all the time. It's something that we do. But they are designed to resonate with you in a very specific way. And so I want to get that out of the way because I feel like essentially all of the reviews, including my own thoughts, have been extremely meditative.

[00:22:11] They've been about what does mixtape say about my personal experience growing up and my own personal coming of age story when I was in high school. And so much of the narrative and the characters is not actually a critical analysis of what that story offers. And I bring this up to say that, like, it was extremely easy for me to feel personalized with somebody like Stacey Rockford. And there were moments in the game, for example, the TPing sequence.

[00:22:40] I was like, oh, I lived this. Yeah, 100%. There were other moments in the game where it's like, no, I didn't live this. And so I don't understand it like on a personal level. Anyway, I'm kind of all over the place. Let me bring it back to the actual narrative of the game. I thought the narrative of the game was this is vibes centered storytelling. There are narrative details and there are plot events and there is character development.

[00:23:07] Like all the stuff of like, I would say, traditional storytelling where you have like a chronological sequence of events and one leads into another and people respond to those events. But this, I feel like mixtape actually shies away from that.

[00:23:23] And it is trying to get you to feel in a very vibe centered way these memories and these plot events and then kind of loosely connect them chronologically as opposed to be like, where does point A lead to point B exactly? So all of that to say that I think this is actually an extremely difficult narrative to be really objectively analytical of because it is quite complex. I found that to be really compelling.

[00:23:53] Now, I think I understand your point though, Cameron, where it's like, because it is not focused on like this super traditional, straightforward, chronological storytelling. And it's not quite dream sequencing, but it's getting quite close to that. Yeah. It's like, how am I exactly supposed to relate to this if it feels timeless?

[00:24:14] How am I supposed to relate to this if, like you said, it's for you and I, like this game is probably six or seven years a little too old in terms of what it's said. For you and I to really be like, yes, that was my coming of age story. So I think it's an awkward game because it presents a lot of its storytelling in this kind of timeless memory and feel based format. But at the same time, it has like very sharp cultural touchstones that make you think that it should be chronological.

[00:24:44] Does that make any sense? No, a hundred percent. No, I think you're keep it going. No, it kind of. So what it reminded me of a little bit was Lady Bird. Ah, yeah. Greta Gerwig film. Imagine if Lady Bird was told in like, to your point, like more of a vibes based sort of dream sequence manner where it kind of jumps from sequence to sequence without.

[00:25:13] And Lady Bird is kind of like that in the sense that it's a movie about nothing. I don't know if there's like a word for this, Jake, but just a movie about like a point in time in life that doesn't really necessarily have a plot. It's just like a camera on somebody experiencing like a moment in their life. That's basically what Lady Bird is. Right. Is there a name for that? There probably is. I mean, it's like I'm blanking on like a specific name, but it's kind of like documentary adjacent. It's still fictional. Sort of. Yeah.

[00:25:41] It's like creative nonfiction in a way. Like it's I don't know. Anyway, continue. So, yeah. Maybe speaking of Greta Gerwig, you know, it's funny. It's like one of my favorite. So I said time period was the reason. But then I was thinking to myself, you know, I think my favorite movie of all time, this is going to be so weird for a lot of you to hear. So this is maybe a little bit of a closet reveal about myself. I think my favorite movie of all time is the 2019 Little Women from Greta Gerwig. Nice.

[00:26:11] Literally my favorite movie. I that is a obviously it's Little Women. It is definitely a coming of age story about like teenage girls in the 1800s that I for some reason just resonates. I mean, if it hits, it hits, right? It hits. It hits. I just don't. So I said that about like, I just didn't like vibe with the time period or like understand the characters or whatever. But Little Women did. I don't know why.

[00:26:39] I can't really explain it to you on this, you know, as we're talking on this podcast. But it was just something that made me think about like, man, how come that worked? And this didn't. You obviously brought up like that you kind of really resonated with kind of the main character, which totally makes sense. Because I my you know, my experience as a kid was obviously way different, though. I did have a lot of the same, you know, journeys and things that, you know, like the whole teepee thing. Right. Like I've still lived that as well. So anyway.

[00:27:08] Yeah, I think I just I think at the end of the day, I just wanted it to do something more for me emotionally. I wanted to connect and I just didn't. And just sometimes that just happens. I just it just didn't connect. And I mean, I think that's OK, too. I mean, I think something like mixtape is asking you to feel the same way it feels like in terms of how it presents emotions and memories. Right. You have to be.

[00:27:33] I feel like, man, Stacey Rockford to me is a character that is actually going to sit with me for a really long time. One, because I see myself quite a lot in Stacey, but also, too, because Stacey is this highly regimented, routine oriented person. And when sand gets in her gears, she doesn't know she doesn't have skills because she's a teenager to kind of deal with. OK, well, what do we do if things don't go according to plan? How am I supposed to respond to that?

[00:28:02] And there are a few moments in here. There's this beautiful moment, which I won't talk about because it's kind of past the 30 percent mark or whatever. But there's this moment where she gets called out for being like, hey, maybe you're not being considerate of other people. And your kind of plan and routine here is something that you're prioritizing over other people and their feelings. And to me, that was like this crux moment in her characterization specifically, where it's like, oh, shoot.

[00:28:29] Like she has this highly detailed sequence of what the last day together is supposed to be like. And it is, you know, augmented. It's enhanced with the soundtrack that she has, you know, hence the title of the of the game mixtape. And she has to do call audibles and she's not good at that. And it reveals a really interesting insecurity, I think, about her specifically. So I think those moments are baked in there.

[00:28:57] But rather than the I think the game like being really explicit in the characterization, because I think for a lot of people and I think that this is very true. Like you look at these characters and this is what I saw in some critiques is that they feel like just a bundle of catchphrases, which I think in some moments it feels that way. Like everybody's saying, cha, you know, it was like, OK, dude, maybe maybe this was a little overdone. Right. Yeah. People really thought that in the 90s. I mean, some people overdid it. Right. But like. Yeah.

[00:29:28] But I think it's just like if this game, this game is going to have a really wonky or uneven attached rate to like if you can actually feel and empathize with these characters. And I think that's where a lot of like the criticisms of the narrative that I've seen have come from. They could not meditate or contemplate the same way. Therefore, they did not participate in critical analysis of what the narrative had to offer.

[00:29:54] Now, I don't think this probably sounds like a really massive dunk and I'm not the smartest person in the room. And I don't think I have a perfect interpretation of mixtape. But I but I want to point that out just to say that, like, if you did not gel with this game, if you did not vibe with this game, if you did not feel this this game the same way that it kind of hopes that you will feel it. That's OK. This game, I think, is actually much more specific and narrow in kind of what it's trying to accomplish. Totally. Totally. It doesn't need to.

[00:30:23] It definitely doesn't need to cater to. To everybody. Nor even to me. But what I can do is I can admire. Again, I always like take a step back and go like, well, if it didn't resonate, like was the execution there? And I think it absolutely executed incredibly well, like what it was set out. What it set out to try and do. Yeah. What it set out to try and do wasn't necessarily wasn't for me. And that's fine. Yeah. I can respect.

[00:30:53] I can 100% respect it and analyze it critically from that standpoint. And I think it did a good job. I think that takes us into talking about design. And I think this is where like a big part of the. I guess not a big part of the controversy, but there is a certain controversy in games like this and the former game from the studio, the artful escape, which I did play quite a bit of. Yeah. Um, the artful escape is that it's not really a video game.

[00:31:23] Wait, which one in the sense that escape or mixtape? Both of them. Both of them. It's more a. No, sorry. I should say this is one of the things that is being called. I'm not necessarily saying that myself. Yeah. Let's, uh, let's move into the game design. So there's not like a controversy around this, but this is one of those games.

[00:31:45] That's like, I don't want to call it like a artistic walking simulator because it's not, that's kind of what the artful escape felt like to me. Where there's not necessarily a ton of gameplay, but the gameplay is like not the point. The point is to make it like an interactive experience. Yeah. Um, which is totally fine.

[00:32:11] I guess to me, the question always comes down to like, how do we be, how do we critically evaluate the design? Because the design, like what is the design intended to do in this game? It's intended to enrich and enhance this coming of age story experiment, like experience in a way that you can only do through video games. That's like my assessment of it. Right.

[00:32:40] Was it successful in doing that? I think so. Was that fun? Yeah, I think kind of, but it's not really a game in the sense that like, there's not really any like systems or any like loops to take part in. You're really just kind of going along for the ride and inputting buttons. Like when certain like experiences come up that you go through and like the, the different big net big nets in the story.

[00:33:10] I don't know. I, it is one of those games where I sit back and go, man, I really want the movie version of this. I can, I just watch it. I'd like, I kind of want to just watch and just have it kind of take me along for the ride. I'm kind of like selecting thing, right? Cause the game does ask you to do some kind of some light puzzle solving or like kind of light game mechanics at times. I always just question like, is that fun or do I just want to kind of go through the experience? Maybe is there a different way that I could engage with this?

[00:33:39] That's not like a mini game inside the game. Right. Sometimes I feel like even the mini game maybe takes away from what the experience is trying to give me or communicate to me or like what the story is trying to give me. Sometimes I feel like it does get in the way, but that's just my, my personal, uh, feeling about it. You know, Greta Gerwig would crush the movie adaptation of this. Oh yeah. I would watch that in a heartbeat. She should, she should buy the reds. Yeah.

[00:34:07] If, if folks, if you're listening, whoever is in charge, um, I would say it's interesting because you and I, we did an episode on the artful escape. This is one of the few games where neither of us completed it. This is, um, and we did an episode on it because that's what we had scheduled. Artful escape. Artful escape. And both of you and I, I remember we were having this debate is like, okay, what exactly is the defining line between an interactive experience in a video game? Because the artful escape was beautiful.

[00:34:33] It had incredible music, but man, was it just for you and I, it was not engaging in terms of its design. Correct. It was hard for us to continue. Um, with mixed tape, I feel like that the elements in here are much more gamified than they are for the artful escape. Um, that, uh, that I would agree with it is better. Yeah. It's definitely, I think in, um, honestly of the way that I see it is like pretty much every single like dream or memory or chase sequence is gamified in some capacity.

[00:35:02] Um, all of them to me felt really polished with the exception of one that really threw me off. Um, so a part of me is like, okay, there was some variability with the game, like with these mini games that you would play. It didn't impact the story at all. The story, I think like, I mean, there's no like branching narrative that's happening here, but you could perform better or worse in those mini games.

[00:35:29] And so to me, I'm like, okay, there are definitely enough gamified elements in here for me to consider this like a video game and not feel as torn about this with the artful escape. I agree with you though. I think you pointed out something here that was pretty insightful. It's like, there is no gameplay loop. If that makes sense for this one. Um, right. You are, you're walking around, you are participating in mini games that do not repeat. So none of the rules repeat.

[00:35:58] Um, and so the gameplay loop is, is, I think it's kind of non-existent, right? Like you said, you kind of get swept along the current that is mixtape. And then when a mini game shows up, you kind of do that. Like you could argue that there's like, yeah, you're in like a, uh, like in Stacy's room and you can interact with a bunch of objects and then you play mini games occasionally. And then you go to the next area and you do the same thing.

[00:36:22] But that to me kind of like getting back to the game design here, this game is not really designed to have a gameplay loop or a core mechanic in my opinion. Right, right, right, right, right. So that, yep. That's why to me it kind of feels like pretty floaty in terms of what the design is. Yeah. So, I mean, look, I think a game that does, that finds a good mix here, obviously a different type of game. It's sort of a, a comic, a visual comic book, but, um, dispatch.

[00:36:52] Ah, okay. I think it did an incredible job of this because it had a single core mini game at the center of like all the goings on, like in the story. Now the dispatch narrative is a much more straightforward sort of episode, episodes of TV, right? That you basically play through. Okay. So obviously different setup. This is much more dream sequence, big net to big net, like different kind of crazy things happening a little bit.

[00:37:18] Um, you know, kind of jumping around, uh, which again, it's fine. I just think for me, it just like, it didn't, I don't know. Is there a better way to do this? Would it be better to have one? I think the one idea I had was like, could you have some sort of like music production mini game? Like at the center of it, like crafting the mixtape and then it's one thing. And then we kind of just see the story things that help us like put the mixtape together as we go. I don't know. Something like that.

[00:37:46] I think that's just where I, I don't know. I just get a little bored. I'm like, I kind of want to just see the next story thing instead of playing a mini game that maybe is not that fun or kind of jumps around from thing to thing. I think that's kind of my takeaway from, from the gameplay components of this. I think you make an excellent contrast with dispatch and to be totally clear listeners. Um, I don't own dispatch. I watched a few streams of it, but I actually stopped because at some point I do want to get around and play through that game myself.

[00:38:14] It's, it's really good. Aaron Paul. Yeah. I mean, I caught a lot of, I don't know. I caught a lot of early bits of that game and I was like, dude, okay. Yeah. I get the, I get the buzz. I get the hype. I just haven't found the time for it yet. Um, but yeah, I think it's a really good contrast because like with dispatch, uh, we weren't having this conversation. Nobody was questioning whether or not dispatch was a video game versus an interactive experience. Right. Right. Right. True. Yeah. You know, and I think that does beg the question, why with mixtape are we having that conversation?

[00:38:44] I do think it comes down to game design, which to me kind of feels like that's already an answer for if a game has game design, then it's a video game. But like, it's a, it's so different. It's a D centered game. Like, I don't know. I was about to say D centered game loop, but I don't think it has a game loop. Right. Really. It's just like a game design that is really spread out mechanically and how the game is asking you to engage with what it offers. So I don't know.

[00:39:13] A part of me is like, it's a collection of mini games, but it's not a party game. You know, um, what makes a video game a video game? I don't know. I, the answer I always want to give to that question is game design. If it has game design, then it's a video game. Um, as opposed to this, have game design or is it just a bunch of playable vignettes? I think if you're with no, I think if you're using the word playable as opposed to interactive. Okay.

[00:39:42] That's, that's kind of your defining feature there. Um, sorry, a little tangent here, but a short film that I love to teach to students, oftentimes in some of my intro classes. Um, the second, the last unit is film. And then the last unit is video games. And then I teach this short film. It's called son of Jaguar as kind of the bridge between film and video games. So look that up. Son of son of Jaguar. It's free on you or not YouTube on yeah. On YouTube. What am I saying?

[00:40:07] It was, um, there's a series of short films that were funded by Google to different filmmakers. And the goal is to try to make a three 60 film. And what it was is you'd watch this YouTube video. And then you as the viewer would use your mouse to decide where the camera was looking as the video played. So, uh, interesting. They're highly unusual. They're actually really uncomfortable to watch because you have to be in charge of the camera.

[00:40:36] To me, a short film like son of Jaguar, it's interactive because you don't have any playable gamified elements in it. You literally, the only control you have is to move the camera around. And so I think about like art exhibits that have like interactive exhibits or whatever it is. Typically it's a, we could define it mechanically, but it's not gamified design.

[00:40:59] It's mostly like, give me an input or give the piece of art an input and see what happens as opposed to actually engaging in something that's playing. Anyway, long tangent to say that I think the game design here is super funky though. Um, it has gamified playable elements, but again, this game is so feels based. It, it, it certainly, as opposed to something like dispatch, right? It doesn't feel like you're playing a video game, even if it's gamified.

[00:41:26] I think for a lot of players, I think what makes it cool though, is that even if you don't like it or maybe, or, or, you know, it's missing that sort of core thing that I think I wanted from it. It is something that can only exist in video game form, I think. And that's probably what makes it a video game in that sense. Um, which I think is an interesting, right?

[00:41:53] Uh, and it also, you know, continues to buck that trend that has been, you know, for years now we have so many different examples of this, but this is just another one that just bucks that trend of like people's conceptions of like what a video game is. You know, I think this is a game, this is a video game that you could recommend to a huge swath of people that really never touch video games and they would get something out of it for sure. I, I definitely agree with that. Right. The way that it, yeah, the way that you play it, I agree for sure.

[00:42:24] Try to think if there's anything else with game design that I have in mind. Like I said, there's only one of the kind of the mini game sections that I was like scratching my head on. I was like, dude, I don't know why I can't figure this one out or like why I'm performing so poorly. Um, but a ton of them, again, some of these moments are just like exaggerated memories or like dream to the max. Like the early, one of the early ones is like the shopping cart chase sequence. Yeah. Right. Where you're like drafting and you're going on the freeway in the shopping cart.

[00:42:53] Well, it's like, of course it didn't actually happen, but it probably felt this way or like, it made me think about, um, in Cameron and I have some shared memories here where we were maybe running from people after we had done something stupid. Right. A hundred percent. And I was, as I was playing through that sequence, I was like, oh yeah, I've done stupid, like stuff like this before. I, you know, uh, so I, I understood, I felt that feeling pretty strongly.

[00:43:22] Let's talk about the impact on the industry. This is a game from Annapurna interactive, uh, pretty renowned. Should I say high budget indie game studio? Is that a weird oxymoron? It's, it's like Annapurna. Sorry. Publisher. Publisher. Yeah. Um, I don't know, but yeah, I mean, this is like pretty high profile. I mean, there was a lot, there was a ton of ads for this, uh, like all over the place.

[00:43:52] Um, uh, Annapurna act interactive clearly sunk a ton of money into this. There's like crazy licensing licensed music in this expensive license music. Very interesting, very creative projects. Probably wasn't that cheap. I mean, it probably cheap, you know, you know, in comparison to like a triple a, but for an indie, probably not that cheap, especially with like the music stuff. Yeah.

[00:44:18] Um, and there's quite a bit of production, like really cool, uh, art direction and design and how they, uh, kind of did the graphics and stuff. Yeah. Um, yeah, dude, I don't know. I mean, I have no clue. I have zero sense of how a game like this does from a sales standpoint and from like a pro. And I don't even know that in the case of this game of that really is the point. Right. Right. It, is it the point?

[00:44:47] I mean, it kind of is to a certain extent, right? Or else game studio can't exist. Obviously though, with the artful escape, it was enough for whatever, or however that studio is put together. So clearly if it's, if they have figured out a model where they can just make these artistic vision projects and continue to release them, I think that's incredible. And just keep doing it. Yeah.

[00:45:13] Obviously they did not need, because I don't think the artful escape was making, was selling multiple millions of copies. So clearly they're doing something. They're doing something right. I totally agree this it's been a while since we talked about this, but in terms of like financing, it makes me wonder because mixtape and the artful escape both launched on game pass. I'm like, okay, how much, how much cash came from Xbox to get this thing here day one.

[00:45:43] And, and I don't think the artful escape wasn't nearly as high profile as mixtape was mixtape. I feel like got like some pretty big slots in terms of marketing. Um, I know it got delayed. This game I felt like was incredibly polished, right? Um, I was really surprised and like pleasantly surprised, right? With like the production level on everything that you were doing, the kind of stop motion, low frame rate style. I thought really worked for me, um, like in terms of character movement and what was going on.

[00:46:12] Uh, there's a lot of sequences that take place in forests. And I thought that those were really gorgeous. You know, night sky vistas. It does like, I felt like it like had really high, it felt like it had a lot of money behind it for sure. I think you're right though. I don't think, I don't think that this studio, let's see, it's Beethoven and dinosaur. I don't think they're trying to make a billion dollars. I think they're trying to break even so they can make the next cool thing. Right. Correct.

[00:46:38] And this just feels like, I mean, you said that, but to me, that just feels like an extremely rare breed of studio at this point. Um, super rare, man. How, how, you know, like who, who are you talking? Like, how are you doing this? Um, so I. SteamDB estimates they sold 75,000 copies, which probably paid salaries. 75,000 copies. And this is a $20 game. Just on PC. But then you also had a Game Pass deal. Okay. You also had console sales.

[00:47:08] So. So the money's. They probably. They probably got enough to. Yeah. To go by, right? To get by. Yeah. Plus long tail, right? Cause it'll be discounted and it'll be, you know, it'll. Uh, probably win some awards and that'll like get sold again. Right. So like, yeah, it's just like one of those unique ones where usually, usually we talk about industry impact in the, in the, in the sense of like, is it going to change how games get made?

[00:47:38] Or what's like the kind of the financial, the business side of it? I think with this one, it's, it just doesn't really need it. It's not the point. Yeah. I would almost say that like, um, other indie devs figure out what their secret sauce is because they weren't able to, this is, it's five years after the artful escape. It is five years after.

[00:48:00] If you can work on your passion projects for five years that literally caters to no one except your own interest. Yeah. That's a pretty sick business model. That's an excellent business model. And it took me three hours to beat. Like this was a short game. Uh, correct. Yeah. So yeah, I'm with you there. I'm like, how did they do it? Uh, I would love to know.

[00:48:25] And I think many, many indie studios would also like to know how they were, how they were able to do that. Um, the other thought I had on impact on the industry, man, I just think people are going to be talking about how they talked about this game for a very long time. And it's for me, I'm already starting to get exhausted of people talking about how they're talking about this game. Um, which is part of the reason why I wanted to do this episode tonight. Cause I was just like, let me get my two cents out there and then I can shut up forever. But, um, right. Yeah.

[00:48:54] I just, I don't know for me right now, looking at mixtape, it's kind of just like, dude, is how, how we review and talk about video games. Absolutely borked. Like, do we need to like take a back to square one and be like, okay, how do we analyze a video game? And what are we doing here? It's funny because in our discord, after mixtape launched, a lot of people in our discord were playing it.

[00:49:19] And that ended up being a huge conversation, which is like, well, what do you think are the best ways to review a video game? And, uh, I remember like logging in one morning and I was like, shoot, I got to catch up on like, you know, 20 different things here. And then I imagine for some people they're like, Hey, there was, you know, 50 plus notifications and people are going ham about how to review video games.

[00:49:42] Um, I, I want this to be like this beautiful catalyst moment in which people are like very self-reflective about how they review a game and how they try to understand a video game on its own merits. Um, me, professor side of me is like, everybody, let's stop meditating about this game and let's start analyzing this game. Um, but I think unfortunately mixtape oftentimes will come up in conversation with, whoa, the discourse around that game was wild. And that's going to be it. And to me, that's kind of a letdown.

[00:50:14] Yeah. I mean, look, the gamer internet has an insatiable desire to understand if a game is successful or not. But I just think this is one of those games that like, it just doesn't need to do much to be successful. Like already did enough. Yeah. Well, right. Like it just does. It already did enough. So it's good. We can just leave it there. We're good. Yeah. They're good. We're good.

[00:50:42] Like it doesn't need to redefine the industry. It does feel unfortunately that a lot of the games that we talk about, you know, it feels like they need to be industry shattering. Yeah. In order to be successful, especially like the big triple A ones that we talk about on the show. Those ones unfortunately probably do to a certain extent. They probably need to be like earth shattering and industry shaking. You know, I'm thinking about bond coming up.

[00:51:09] Like people are going to think bond is a failure if it gets an eight out of 10 for sure. Yeah. Like if it gets an eight, if it gets like an S like a, an 80 on Metacritic, they're going to call it like a bomb. Right. Yeah. Now, if it sells well, that's a different thing. It's a bond game. So that alone, like when's the last time we had a bond game? No idea. The only problem is bond is not hot right now. We haven't even announced the new bond. This is a little off topic.

[00:51:38] But my point is like, it's just a totally different world. So in this world, we can just be happy and have cool artistic stuff and just move on. Yeah. I know we're not talking about first light. We're not talking about bond. It does make me wonder though, if the folks at IO Interactive had kind of expected, because I think it's Amazon that owns and makes bond movies. Yeah. Yeah. I think they probably had expected another bond movie to come out since what was it? No time to die. You know. Yeah.

[00:52:08] I released like announcement, right? I wonder though now, because there's, there's intertwined. I don't know what the deal is with the video game rights and the movie rights of if Amazon owns all of that and they're working with IO or if IO is working directly with Barbara Broccoli, who the broccoli family that owns like the bond. Right. Stuff. I don't know. Anyway, it makes me wonder though, if they're actually going to use the game as a catalyst to announce a bunch of stuff.

[00:52:37] I mean, maybe I think the last bit of news I heard about bond movies is that they couldn't come up with, uh, they couldn't resolve the plot event that bond dies at the end of no time to die. They're like, we don't know how to like resolve that. What do you mean? Did you not see this article? You just restart. Yeah. That's what they always do. They always do. Oh my, I have to find, I have to dig up this article and send it to you. So I was talking to the newest.

[00:53:05] No, I was going to say, I was talking to Matt, um, from now he's at Gigi Tribune, but previously editor at the hard, hard drive about this. Who's a big bond fan. And he was like livid. He was just like, why would you not just reboot it? Like you have every single time you get a new act literally for James Bond. Like why is this a question? In fact, you know what I actually think would be the dope play that they should do. Let's hear it.

[00:53:32] Is they should make it a throwback and go back to the sixties. Cool. That's what I think they should do. Guys get Cameron, you know, Jay Warren or whatever, you know, get this man in your Amazon studio. Like he'll, he'll get it sorted. I mean, think, think it, you know, big budget. 60, 60s is in right now. You know what I'm saying? Dude, I'm in. 60s is kind of always in, you know? You know what I mean?

[00:53:56] Uh, the latest bond rumor I've heard is that Calum Turner is in the mix. Who actually seems like a really good candidate of the ones that I've heard recently. Looking this guy up right now. Oh, this guy. Who is British. He plays a lot of Americans in most of the movies that he's in. So you can't really tell that he's British, but he is. But he is. This guy could do it. I don't know. He looks American, right? He doesn't have like the British look. I don't know.

[00:54:26] Does he need to look more British? Knock a few teeth around and he'll be fine. Yeah. Maybe like make some of his teeth not. Yeah. Anyway, no. Uh, anyway, mixtape. Ladies and gentlemen, off to bond mixtape. Yeah. This is a cool, uh, artistic experience. Again, like Jake said, three hours. It's on game pass. I mean, come on now. Go check this one out. At least check out, you know, 45 minutes, an hour. Then just turn it off.

[00:54:56] You don't like it. Um, but you might like Jake, uh, something might resonate with you and it's resonated with a ton of people. So if it does, I think that's, that's a big win. Yep. I agree. And with that, ladies and gentlemen, that's been our episode talking mixtape. On the pre-order bonus podcast. If you like the show, please leave a review on your podcast platform of choice. Helps people find the show. The more reviews that we have, the more we get up in those gaming podcast leaderboards. You can check us out on YouTube.

[00:55:26] We're back on YouTube, youtube.com. I don't even know the link. The link's in the description. It's pre-order bonus podcast. Just, you'll find it. Um, you can watch Jake stream. We're also on Twitch. Jake's really just on Twitch. Twitch.tv slash chiptob18. He's representing us on the Twitch streams. Go check him out. Link to that is also in the description. And if you want to support us directly, you can do that. Patreon.com slash pre-order cast.

[00:55:52] You can sign up for the deluxe edition of the podcast, which gets you extended editions of our regular episodes and special topics episodes once a month. We just dropped new ones, one for Absalom and then a special topics talking survival crafting in 2026. You can get that again, five bucks a month. Just one plan on the deluxe edition. Thank you so much for listening and have a great night.