Metaphor: ReFantazio (Prologue)

[00:00:09] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Pre-Order Bonus Podcast. I'm one of your hosts Cameron Warren and I'm joined as always by Jacob Price. Jake, it's October 22nd, 2024. Took a break last week. Both of us, I think, pretty tired, pretty burned out. Maybe even a little burned out of, maybe a little even gaming burned out possibly. Lots of games that we've been like kind of grinding through.

[00:00:39] Had to take a break, but we're back now. Jacob, I gotta tell you about something that happened. You know, I made a vow. I made a vow on this podcast. Okay?

[00:00:52] Which is usually binding, would like to put out there.

[00:00:56] It's a binding legal contract and I may be suspect to legal charges. But I made a vow to myself that I, no matter what happened, I would not buy the new Atlas video game Metaphor ReFantazio. Okay?

[00:01:17] And I said to myself, this game is gonna be a 90s Metacritic. It's gonna get crazy reviews and I'm gonna be super tempted to buy it.

[00:01:26] But I'm not gonna do it because guess what? I played, I started Persona 5 like five times. I put probably 50 hours into it over five different playthroughs and never got past the first act.

[00:01:37] So I'm just not gonna do it, Jake. I'm not, it's not gonna happen. You know, I'm committed.

[00:01:41] And then?

[00:01:42] And then what happens? They put out a demo.

[00:01:47] Those.

[00:01:47] They put out a freaking demo. And not just a demo of like, here's like a level. It was like the entire prologue of this game. Almost.

[00:01:57] Almost. Nearly a 8 to 10 hour experience, depending on how you pad it out.

[00:02:04] Yep.

[00:02:05] And I gotta tell you, I finished this, I handily and easily finished this demo.

[00:02:12] And then sat on the fence and I was like, you know what? I wanna play, I wanna play the rest of this game.

[00:02:17] I wanna experience what the rest of what this thing has to offer.

[00:02:20] And I pulled the trigger. I, I did it.

[00:02:22] So, I don't know. What's, what are the charges, Jake?

[00:02:26] Shame. Just a lot of shame. Guilt.

[00:02:30] I'm not, I'm probably not gonna finish this game. I gotta be honest with myself. I'm not, I'm probably not gonna finish it.

[00:02:35] I don't think I can finish 80 hour games. I just don't think, no matter how good it is, I just don't think I could finish 80 hour games.

[00:02:41] I don't think I can do it.

[00:02:42] That's not true, though, because you finished Baldur's Gate 3.

[00:02:47] That is a really good point. And I'm actually, that is actually a really great point.

[00:02:52] And that is something I realized recently. I'm actually on, I am 50 hours into my second playthrough of Baldur's Gate 3.

[00:03:01] Dude, this is, this is the danger, though, because, so I, so similarly, I had looked at the Metaphor ReFantazio stuff super lightly.

[00:03:10] I was like, I've never played an Atlas game. Persona 5, everybody's like, it's a 120 hour game or 90 hour game or whatever.

[00:03:19] And I always thought to myself, you know, that's just, I'm not gonna do it.

[00:03:23] I watched a few, like, trailers for Persona 5. It even came to Game Pass. It might even still be on Game Pass.

[00:03:30] And I was just like, no, this game isn't for me.

[00:03:33] And then the hype got to me, dude. The hype got to me with the demo.

[00:03:39] So those sneaky, those sneaky, filthy hobbitses over at Atlas, dude, they found the formula maybe to crack the demographic you and me, people who don't want to get into these games with a demo.

[00:03:53] They knew what they were doing. And not only, this is the genius of it. It's a demo with progress that transfers to the full game.

[00:04:00] Which, like, it's so good, dude. It's brilliant.

[00:04:04] And, you know, I was actually thinking about this as I was playing through the demo.

[00:04:07] I was thinking, oh, well, at any point here, this is gonna cut off. We're gonna get to this story beat.

[00:04:13] And then it's gonna cut off and then there'll be a cliffhanger.

[00:04:16] But that's not where it cuts off. It cuts off after it introduces, like, all the major mechanics of the gameplay loop.

[00:04:25] And then it gets you deep into, maybe not deep, but it gets you, like, pretty substantially into one of the main gameplay loops with the first big dungeon.

[00:04:34] And then it cuts you off. It cuts you off right as you're making progress towards making, like, really big progress in the early game.

[00:04:40] And so you're like, I want to finish this. I want to keep going, right?

[00:04:46] Yeah, I mean, I think Jake and I were both so affected by this demo that we're, this episode is on the demo.

[00:04:52] So that's, it's kind of...

[00:04:54] Because there is enough meat on the bone on the demo to do a full episode on it, which, who knows, maybe that actually leads into a full-blown, spoiler-filled part two.

[00:05:08] But that is TBD because it's an 80-hour game.

[00:05:12] Yeah.

[00:05:12] I don't finish 80-hour games except for Baldur's Gate 3, which I have almost 200 hours in.

[00:05:17] So that's one exception.

[00:05:19] Okay.

[00:05:19] This is something I was thinking about recently as I was playing this demo and I was coming up on the end of it.

[00:05:24] I was like, you know, I was like, I don't know if I want to commit to this.

[00:05:29] This is super fun.

[00:05:30] I'm really enjoying this.

[00:05:31] But knowing it's like a 90-hour game, I was like, I don't know.

[00:05:34] Can I finish it?

[00:05:35] And then call it fate.

[00:05:38] Maybe it was Galaga putting a thought in my mind or something.

[00:05:42] But I was like, yeah, but how many hours do you have in Elden Ring?

[00:05:46] And how many playthroughs of Elden Ring have you made?

[00:05:49] And how many of those playthroughs of Elden Ring were 90 hours?

[00:05:52] And I was like, crap.

[00:05:54] I can do a 90-hour game.

[00:05:56] I've done a 90-hour game before.

[00:05:58] And so obviously Elden Ring doesn't have to be 90 hours.

[00:06:03] I just have at least two playthroughs where I just really scoured the entire map of Elden Ring.

[00:06:09] And so it sucks.

[00:06:12] I felt a little defeating, but also there's some optimism in there where it's like, crap, I actually could beat a game like this.

[00:06:19] And so what I'm kind of mentally preparing for is maybe Metaphor Re-Fantasio just becomes a game that I play during the holiday break.

[00:06:28] You know?

[00:06:29] Yeah, I think it's a great candidate for it.

[00:06:33] No, I mean, it's an interesting topic.

[00:06:36] And that could maybe be a future special topic, I think, talking about like...

[00:06:41] Because to your point on Baldur's Gate 3, I had that same thought.

[00:06:43] It's like, you know what?

[00:06:44] I just don't play long games.

[00:06:46] Like, I don't finish them.

[00:06:47] And then I did have that realization of like, that isn't true because I'm playing Baldur's Gate 3 for the second time.

[00:06:55] And I'm 50 hours into this game that I've already played once.

[00:06:59] But listen, Baldur's Gate 3, games like Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3 are one-of-a-kind masterpieces.

[00:07:05] So it's not like, you know...

[00:07:08] I've played through Uncharted 4 like five times.

[00:07:11] I love that game.

[00:07:12] So I don't know.

[00:07:13] You know, everyone has their taste.

[00:07:14] I actually wish...

[00:07:16] I wish that I could be the person that could put multiple hundreds of hours into every big beefy game that I play.

[00:07:25] But it just doesn't happen, you know?

[00:07:27] Yeah, and I think you're right.

[00:07:29] I mean, it's not super common that you're going to be able to find a game that you're just going to sink so many hours into.

[00:07:37] Not every game like allows for that.

[00:07:39] Like a game that I always bring up that I love dearly is a short hike.

[00:07:43] But dude, you'd be hard-pressed to play that game for more than three hours.

[00:07:48] And not like complete or like five hours, I think maybe at the most, right?

[00:07:54] And really just totally exhaust every single thing that it has.

[00:07:58] The rest, you're just flying around that world because you love it, right?

[00:08:02] So yeah, there are a lot of different factors at play.

[00:08:04] And I think for me too, as I had this similar realization, but with Elden Ring was...

[00:08:10] Okay, do I actually have the proper like judgment and self-assessment to know when I actually would complete a 90-hour game?

[00:08:21] I think initially I hear a game that's like, hey, this is going to be 90 hours long.

[00:08:25] So my first thought is no, because I play games for the podcast and I play games for fun.

[00:08:31] And I just simply do not have the time to complete something like that.

[00:08:36] But every now and then some game is going to be able to push me or push whoever it is to make the time for it because it's so engrossing.

[00:08:47] I think what surprises me probably the most is that it could like metaphor re-Fantasio could be one of those games for me.

[00:08:55] And I think that's part of the reason why Cameron and I are doing this episode, even though it's just on the prologue or demo.

[00:09:02] Because we're two people.

[00:09:03] We, I don't think we were the target demographic at all for this game.

[00:09:09] Yet, here we are, you know, we're talking about it.

[00:09:13] We're enjoying it.

[00:09:14] And we're actually considering like, you know what?

[00:09:16] Maybe I need to make time for this game.

[00:09:17] So I hope that this episode is pretty valuable to people like us who've just been on the fence about these types of games.

[00:09:24] So you can make a better, more informed decision based on what you hear or agree with, with our experience with the demo.

[00:09:32] 100% agree, Jake.

[00:09:34] With that, unless you had any other news topics, should we get into it?

[00:09:40] I don't think I have any news topics.

[00:09:42] I do want to just get this off my chest.

[00:09:44] I don't think I've had, in recent memory, a love-hate relationship the way that I do with Final Fantasy XV.

[00:09:50] And we, I'm going to force Cameron to have some type of special topics episode.

[00:09:55] Maybe where we discuss just the games that we are the most mixed on.

[00:09:59] Because I'm at a point where I'm really pissed at this game.

[00:10:03] But I'm still going to see it through to the end, dude.

[00:10:06] Games that you love, you love, hate?

[00:10:08] Yeah, games that you love.

[00:10:09] You hate play?

[00:10:09] Yeah.

[00:10:10] Still playing this game, dude.

[00:10:12] Hate playing a game.

[00:10:13] It's a great, it's a great practice.

[00:10:14] I don't recommend it.

[00:10:16] It's like, what games would you be the awful Steam reviewer who has 900 hours in and give it a thumbs down?

[00:10:23] You know, like.

[00:10:25] That's actually, yeah.

[00:10:26] The most oxymoronic review possible.

[00:10:29] That's like the, the Starfield reviews where the guy has like, he's like, this game's crap and he has.

[00:10:36] Like, 200 hours in it?

[00:10:38] Yeah.

[00:10:38] It's like, it's like, nah dude.

[00:10:40] You're like, wait a second.

[00:10:41] Are you allowed to give a thumbs down on a game if you have 200 hours in it?

[00:10:46] I don't.

[00:10:46] I feel like there's, I feel like Steam should make some kind of rule where it's like, come on.

[00:10:51] Like, come on.

[00:10:52] Like, really?

[00:10:53] Like, maybe.

[00:10:54] Because it's literally just a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

[00:10:56] It's not like you're giving a score.

[00:10:57] Yeah, what if it, what if you could like not recommend but actually doesn't count towards the review aggregate if you have over X amount of hours in a game?

[00:11:07] I feel like they should tune the algorithm accordingly because that is just, that's just, any game that can take that much of your time has done something to tick something in your brain.

[00:11:19] Unless your brain just works in just wild, maniacal ways that I don't really understand, which is very possible.

[00:11:26] Very possible.

[00:11:27] A quick example of that before we get back to metaphor re-fantasioism.

[00:11:33] Caravan Sandwich, which we did an episode on.

[00:11:37] That game, like, if you were to 100%, it probably would take you like 12 or 13 hours.

[00:11:42] It wouldn't take you that much.

[00:11:44] They got a negative review.

[00:11:46] Somebody had put 15 hours into the game and they said, I discovered that this game is woke.

[00:11:51] Therefore, I'm going to give it a thumbs down.

[00:11:55] And it's, to me, something like that, it's like you are playing well beyond what it would take to 100% this game.

[00:12:03] So, at the end of the game that you were very much enjoying, you discovered something about it that you dislike.

[00:12:08] Therefore, you get to give it a negative review.

[00:12:11] Part of me is like, dude, like, come on.

[00:12:14] Anyway.

[00:12:15] No, dude.

[00:12:16] We don't need to bring up that can of worms, but just something similar.

[00:12:19] I mean, for big games, that's not going to make a difference.

[00:12:21] But for a small game, and that's where Steam should be like, dude, come on.

[00:12:27] Like, come on, dude.

[00:12:27] Like, yeah.

[00:12:29] Like, I don't.

[00:12:31] Yeah.

[00:12:31] You got too much time on your hands.

[00:12:33] If your time is like 20% beyond the average threshold or something, your negative review.

[00:12:38] But that's a piece of psychology, though, that should be studied.

[00:12:42] Because that's just the status quo on the internet is to be negative and to hate everything.

[00:12:52] Right?

[00:12:53] That's like what gets clicks.

[00:12:55] And that's what gets people to engage with you.

[00:12:58] And so that's what the vast majority of the internet, it's all about like hate.

[00:13:02] It's all about hate and rage because that's what gets clicks.

[00:13:05] Yeah.

[00:13:09] And that's why people, I think, comment that way is because they want people to engage with them.

[00:13:13] And what's the easiest way to get people with someone?

[00:13:15] You bait them into like a rage argument.

[00:13:18] You know, whether you really...

[00:13:19] Like, if you were to talk to that person in person, nine times out of ten, you're probably going to have a cordial conversation with that individual.

[00:13:27] Right?

[00:13:28] Yeah.

[00:13:28] Like, it's not...

[00:13:29] There's not going to be hate.

[00:13:30] But then you put them on the internet and suddenly everything changes.

[00:13:32] I wonder...

[00:13:33] Now we're really off topic.

[00:13:34] But now I wonder, since you're thinking about like psychological studies of this, if this has been accentuated because of people being stuck inside during the pandemic.

[00:13:44] That to get some sort of meaningful interaction and meaningful, they're not necessarily meaning positive.

[00:13:51] But to get some sort of social interaction that actually requires input and thought and process and whatever, people turn to extremes.

[00:14:02] Yeah, it's like starving.

[00:14:02] It's like starving for some kind of like human engagement, even though it's digital engagement.

[00:14:08] Like, doesn't even count, you know?

[00:14:10] Yeah.

[00:14:11] Somebody do that test and please get back to us.

[00:14:13] I'd love to know.

[00:14:15] The internet is really killing all of us.

[00:14:18] So...

[00:14:19] We're all dying.

[00:14:20] Be positive out there, folks.

[00:14:22] Be positive.

[00:14:23] You know?

[00:14:23] Like, manifest positivity.

[00:14:25] That's all I gotta say.

[00:14:26] Cameron's new TikTok.

[00:14:29] That's what golf has taught me.

[00:14:31] Manifest positivity.

[00:14:33] Golf is like the most psychological game.

[00:14:35] Yeah.

[00:14:35] When I first started playing golf, when I had a bad round, I would have like massive rage and like throw clubs and stuff.

[00:14:44] And now I've just accepted how bad I am and I'm just discouraged and depressed instead.

[00:14:53] No, I like...

[00:14:54] You just gotta shake it off, you know?

[00:14:56] Just gotta go out there and have not high expectations, but positive expectations, you know?

[00:15:02] Develop strong mental fortitude.

[00:15:04] Emotional resilience.

[00:15:05] Experience.

[00:15:06] I like it.

[00:15:10] Well, with that, ladies and gentlemen, let's dive into our topic of the show, which, again, kind of weird.

[00:15:16] But, again, there's a lot to say.

[00:15:18] There is a shocking amount to say here.

[00:15:20] And so we were both felt so strongly about it.

[00:15:24] We're like, let's talk about this demo.

[00:15:26] And so maybe use this as a key off to decide, is this something maybe you want to play?

[00:15:33] And the beauty is, is that the demo is on all platforms.

[00:15:35] You can just go check this out, like for free.

[00:15:38] So, Jake, how are we going to do it?

[00:15:40] Yeah, we are going to give this game, even though it's just the demo, the prologue, the full treatment, in part because the prologue itself is actually longer than some of the games that we've given full episodes to anyway.

[00:15:51] So there's plenty to talk about.

[00:15:53] And we'll do that in three categories.

[00:15:54] The first one is narrative.

[00:15:55] We'll be talking about the story.

[00:15:57] There's plenty of story going on here.

[00:16:00] There needs to be if your game is going to be, you know, upwards of 90 hours in length.

[00:16:06] So we'll be discussing this.

[00:16:08] Typically, we avoid spoilers.

[00:16:10] But, folks, this is the prologue to a game.

[00:16:12] So everything in here is fair game.

[00:16:14] And this is, depending on how you're playing it, probably the first, I'm assuming, 8 to 10 hours of the game.

[00:16:22] So anything that's in the prologue is good.

[00:16:24] But if you don't want to hear, if you want to go in totally cold, you're going to have to skip this section entirely, I will say.

[00:16:30] The second category is the game design.

[00:16:33] So this is a turn-based, you know, classic JRPG.

[00:16:37] We'll be talking about those mechanics, what makes them engaging, and essentially what you have to do to strategize and work through battles to progress the game.

[00:16:46] And then finally, impact on the industry.

[00:16:49] This will be an especially weird sort of conversation here because we're talking about a prologue.

[00:16:56] And we've kind of started this conversation briefly by just mentioning the power of what a really good demo can do for your game.

[00:17:04] But we'll be exploring that.

[00:17:06] We'll also probably talk about the Metacritic score and the reviews that Metaphor ReFantasio has received.

[00:17:11] So those are the three categories that we'll use to discuss the game.

[00:17:15] That's narrative, game design, and then impact on the industry.

[00:17:17] And let's kick things off with the narrative, with the story.

[00:17:23] Cameron, are you enjoying the story?

[00:17:25] Like, what do you like about this story so far?

[00:17:27] I'm very, I'm fascinated by the story.

[00:17:30] It actually really deeply surprised me.

[00:17:33] And I guess maybe it shouldn't have because I just didn't.

[00:17:39] The Persona 5, which is what I played, which is the only other Atlus game that I played, is it impressed me with its execution and its style.

[00:17:51] Yeah.

[00:17:52] Enough that I kind of kept going.

[00:17:54] But the whole kind of high school classroom setting and like very interesting, but it just didn't like do that much for me.

[00:18:02] Take me to this fantasy setting of Metaphor though.

[00:18:06] And it's sort of a more traditional fantasy world, but they start to unravel the highly political, highly dynamic sort of like interesting situation that's happening.

[00:18:23] And as you play through this prologue, it starts to get even more complicated and kind of more interesting.

[00:18:28] And then tack on the fact, and this isn't a spoiler, it starts out, it kind of tells you the game is literally called Metaphor.

[00:18:35] And I didn't understand what that meant.

[00:18:38] But that is literally because it's making like there's a narrator who's giving like the game as a metaphor for like arts and its impact on life as you're playing the game.

[00:18:54] Yeah.

[00:18:54] And it is like fascinating.

[00:18:57] And it is like fascinating.

[00:18:58] Just like so, it's such fascinating, interesting story.

[00:19:01] Like legitimately kind of blew me away.

[00:19:04] Gameplay and all that other stuff, like really good.

[00:19:07] And we'll talk about some of that.

[00:19:08] But the story part of it, I don't think I've really played a game that's doing kind of what Metaphor is doing in a way that it's executing the narrative and the literal kind of telling of the metaphor of the game.

[00:19:24] It's super fascinating.

[00:19:25] Yeah, I agree.

[00:19:26] Like the game really starts with this cut scene that very much looks like the world that we live in.

[00:19:33] I actually imagine a lot of the, and they're like a little blurry and that's a purpose, like done on purpose.

[00:19:40] But yeah, the game just straight up tells you the beginning, what you are about to play is a metaphor.

[00:19:46] And at first I kind of was like, is this maybe a little on the nose?

[00:19:53] But right.

[00:19:54] It was like too much, too much too soon.

[00:19:56] Like the game starts with, here's a fourth wall and here's me kicking it down, you know?

[00:20:01] Yeah.

[00:20:02] But like you, I actually really appreciated sort of that candidness.

[00:20:07] And I think a big part of that was like, you know what?

[00:20:11] If you are out there still wondering if like fantasy or science fiction or just fiction broadly is meant to have any type of political messaging,

[00:20:24] let's just lay it out for you.

[00:20:26] Yes, it does.

[00:20:27] In this game, it also does.

[00:20:29] And this game will be dealing with a lot of, you know, parallel phenomenon, like social phenomenon that occurs in our day-to-day life.

[00:20:39] And you're going to see it played out represented in this game.

[00:20:42] And so I like that because right up front, it forces, it doesn't force, I guess, but it strongly encourages the player to start paying attention to what the game is doing allegorically.

[00:20:54] And I like that.

[00:20:56] I liked that a lot.

[00:20:57] Like, of course, the game is still entertaining.

[00:20:58] There are characters that you like and there's a story that's unfolding and you enjoy watching it unravel with the twists and turns and etc.

[00:21:07] Right.

[00:21:08] But I just like that it just from the get go says, OK, but as you're enjoying this story, you need to be making parallels or drawing connections between what's happening in the story and, you know, the lived experience in our reality as well.

[00:21:23] So, yeah, I think I'm not exactly sure how it gets pulled off so well, because I think in most instances I would be a little annoyed.

[00:21:32] But I actually think in metaphor, I don't know, they make it work.

[00:21:37] And I think in part because they don't spend a whole long time doing that.

[00:21:40] It just kind of tells you almost almost like just like a warning.

[00:21:44] It's almost like a like a seizure warning, but it's like, OK, literary warning.

[00:21:50] This game is a metaphor.

[00:21:51] You will.

[00:21:53] This is based on like real life and experiences, but just told in a fantasy setting.

[00:21:59] Yeah, this is a game that also has a huge amount to say about religion and racism.

[00:22:08] Yeah.

[00:22:08] Yeah.

[00:22:09] As well.

[00:22:12] And it's funny because it's like.

[00:22:15] There's like you already mentioned, Jake, there's the whole crowd that's like, get politics out of my game.

[00:22:20] And this game is literally just like this is a game of this game is about politics and racism.

[00:22:27] Like it could not be any more blatantly like about like literally side quests where you're helping characters like deal with the fact that the, you know, city kind of doesn't allow the expression of their religion.

[00:22:42] And then the other religion is like, yeah, we don't like deal with people from that are from that religion.

[00:22:47] It's like, oh, OK, well, that's that's what we're doing.

[00:22:50] OK.

[00:22:52] Yeah, no, it has a lot to say about it.

[00:22:54] Um.

[00:22:56] And the commentary around, you know, what those division, why those divisions exist and how they impact like society at large and then just politics and power and kind of how that works and what you find out.

[00:23:12] It's not it's spoilery, maybe like a teeny bit of a spoiler, but you I think it's been revealed in reviews and like various other things.

[00:23:20] Skip ahead 30 seconds if you don't want to hear a small spoiler.

[00:23:23] But the game is like really it's.

[00:23:29] It is, again, racism and religion and it's a metaphor and kind of about those things and talks about that, but also about politics and power and like gaining influence.

[00:23:40] And like the goal of the game is really and the story and the plot is about how you go about gaining that.

[00:23:48] And obviously, I understand that there's twists and turns on along the way.

[00:23:51] I don't know what they are because we obviously play only through the prolong.

[00:23:55] But the game sets the stage for literally gaining political influence to see who's going to become the next king.

[00:24:03] Yeah.

[00:24:04] And how you go about doing that.

[00:24:06] And so it becomes like an election race, which is just so fascinating because we're right in the midst of literal election race.

[00:24:15] Yeah.

[00:24:15] Right.

[00:24:15] Obviously, this game was made in Japan.

[00:24:18] I don't know what like the like the Japanese political landscape is like at all.

[00:24:23] I'm definitely I don't know how much they're looking at influences like internationally or if it's just they're looking specifically at Japan as like a microcosm of kind of their their how they're talking about politics.

[00:24:37] But just fascinating, just fascinating to like intermix all those things.

[00:24:41] And what it what it does is it creates this like really dense kind of like really creative, interesting fantasy world that's doing things that go above and beyond or outside of that normal sort of Lord of the Rings ish style scope.

[00:24:55] Yeah, maybe or like Dungeons and Dragons telescope.

[00:24:58] Not that those scopes are bad or boring by any means, but it's just so vastly different from that while still being in this fantasy setting.

[00:25:07] I just found it so fascinating.

[00:25:10] Yeah.

[00:25:10] I mean, I'm a big, big fan of how this game sets things up.

[00:25:15] Essentially, there are if I see looking at notes here, I want to say there's 12 different tribes, which I think is a very thinly veiled way of putting like ethnicities right in the game.

[00:25:26] Yeah.

[00:25:27] And most of them are defined because they have some sort of anthropomorphized like animal characteristic, like they might have horns or they might have cat ears or something along those lines.

[00:25:37] Right.

[00:25:37] Well, ironically enough, you play as Will, who is an elder.

[00:25:44] And now the elder are like the most quote unquote human because they don't have any of these animal characteristics as far as I can tell.

[00:25:52] Right.

[00:25:53] They don't have long pointy ears.

[00:25:55] They don't have horns.

[00:25:56] They don't have cat ears.

[00:25:58] They don't have fur.

[00:25:59] They don't have angel wings or whatever.

[00:26:01] And so the irony there is like pretty stark.

[00:26:04] Right.

[00:26:04] So like Will, who for the player from our real world would consider to be the most normal looking, is in game considered to be like the most hideous, the most off putting and the most vile of all these different tribes.

[00:26:20] And guess what?

[00:26:21] You get to play as this character.

[00:26:23] And so what I thought was super interesting about this is you are constantly the target of harassment.

[00:26:30] Like when you get to Grand Trad, which is relatively early in the game.

[00:26:35] And this is the capital city of the kingdom that you're at.

[00:26:37] It is like overwhelming.

[00:26:41] I feel like the HUD when you're walking through.

[00:26:44] There's all sorts of like essentially black text boxes will appear to the sides and on the top of the screen.

[00:26:55] And even just like above different people speaking.

[00:26:59] It'll say like chat, chat or murmur, murmur.

[00:27:02] And they're just saying like, oh, my gosh, oh, they get away from here or somebody will spit at you or they just say like these awful things to you.

[00:27:10] They're like, get out of here, Elda.

[00:27:12] You know, like like Elda, that's brave of you being here in broad daylight or something like that.

[00:27:17] And you're just totally barraged with these super prejudiced comments.

[00:27:22] And I thought that was super bold, too.

[00:27:26] I think I think it's one thing to have like an antihero protagonist, which I don't think will is.

[00:27:33] And it is another thing to have a protagonist or a hero that everybody simply hates because of some sort of feature.

[00:27:41] Right. And in this case, them being an Elda.

[00:27:43] And so I thought it was a super bold move.

[00:27:45] And it's reflected really well into this overwhelming, overbearing HUD what's going on.

[00:27:51] But essentially you're playing as Will and you have a I think they're just called fairies.

[00:27:56] Right. Galica is a fairy that accompanies you and you were both are on a mission.

[00:28:02] In Grand Trad and you're supposed to infiltrate and find some sort of contact in the military there.

[00:28:08] And so they're in the middle of like this campaign against all these monsters that are showing up.

[00:28:14] And so it's very easy to get recruited into their military.

[00:28:17] And then you're supposed to sort of find this contact point as well.

[00:28:21] And I don't know.

[00:28:23] I just I thought it was a super bold thing to do, but I actually really liked it.

[00:28:26] It was a great way for you to create for for the player to have empathy for what was happening to the protagonist and to get interested.

[00:28:34] Like, why on earth does everybody have a problem with me?

[00:28:36] And then just to figure it out that it's because you're an Elda and they're just prejudiced against you.

[00:28:41] You're like, oh, did that sucks.

[00:28:43] So I thought it was a good way of creating empathy for real life scenarios who people who experience prejudice hurled at them every single day.

[00:28:52] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:55] I think that's a great synopsis, Jake.

[00:28:57] Any other thoughts on the narrative?

[00:28:59] I mean, there's obviously we only played the prologue.

[00:29:01] I'm sure in the full game like this gets so much more deep and expansive.

[00:29:06] But again, I think that was my main takeaways is I'm just bought in super bought into the just this really interesting color, colorful tapestry of this world that has so much going on from just really kind of those interesting angles of politics and religion and kind of the looks at all those things.

[00:29:27] And they're very for lack of a better term on the note, like they're very in your face about it.

[00:29:32] It's not it's not like a subtle thing.

[00:29:34] It's like very much this game is there are a lot of racists and they're like yelling at you and like yelling at people you're trying to talk to in the game.

[00:29:45] And it's just very right there.

[00:29:46] So anyway.

[00:29:47] Yeah, I think the only things I would add is that you very quickly start gathering like a pretty memorable cast in your party.

[00:29:55] You meet Leon Stroll, who I really liked.

[00:29:58] This is somebody who kind of comes to terms with why they have decided to join this military.

[00:30:03] And they have this, you know, deep sense of pride because they're a countryside noble, which is I actually really liked this.

[00:30:11] I thought this was excellent world building drawing on real world sort of medieval politics where bloodline and wealth were super important to sort of stratify different like ranks of nobility.

[00:30:24] So to be like a countryside noble or a countryside rural noble was like for the elite class, like you're almost as bad as a peasant.

[00:30:34] And so I thought it was interesting to have a character that very much, you know, represents that.

[00:30:38] And then towards the end of the prologue, this person shows up in in trailers.

[00:30:43] So I don't feel bad talking about it.

[00:30:44] And I already said that the prologue was fair game.

[00:30:46] You meet Hulkenberg, who I think, again, is another interesting character.

[00:30:51] And these characters that you meet, they all have this like need to protect the prince there.

[00:31:01] From what I understand, and maybe camera correct me here.

[00:31:05] There are the in this kingdom of Eukronia.

[00:31:09] Yeah.

[00:31:10] The king dies.

[00:31:12] And actually in an opening cut scene, you see that he's assassinated.

[00:31:17] And at the same time, the prince is killed or indisposed.

[00:31:22] And I cannot for the life of me tell if there were two princes or that one is actually indisposed, but everybody thinks is dead.

[00:31:28] I actually think it's the latter.

[00:31:30] There's just one prince, right?

[00:31:32] I think it's the latter.

[00:31:33] Yeah.

[00:31:34] Yeah.

[00:31:35] Yeah.

[00:31:35] Yeah.

[00:31:35] So the prince.

[00:31:36] And the main character who you play as knows, like knows the real deal with the prince.

[00:31:44] And that's part of the plot.

[00:31:45] Yeah.

[00:31:46] Yeah.

[00:31:46] Okay.

[00:31:46] So there we go.

[00:31:47] Right.

[00:31:47] So the prince is under a curse.

[00:31:51] And part of your secret mission has to do with sort of dispelling this curse.

[00:31:55] And so that's why you're going to the capital city.

[00:31:57] That's why you're meeting the people that you do.

[00:32:00] But yeah, I just thought, yeah, compelling reasons for the protagonist to be doing what they're

[00:32:04] doing, compelling reasons for the different cast members that you meet to sort of join your

[00:32:08] cause because they have some sort of loyalty to the late king or to the prince.

[00:32:13] And so they're eager to sort of join your mission to restore the prince to health and to sort of

[00:32:22] right this kingdom that is being, well, that is heavily contested with the king's death.

[00:32:33] Very interesting.

[00:32:35] It's good.

[00:32:35] It's got good politics.

[00:32:37] It is good.

[00:32:38] I'm intrigued to see where it goes.

[00:32:40] Let's talk about the design.

[00:32:45] This is a fairly linear game, at least for what we played and what I played in the demo.

[00:32:55] You are moving from kind of narrative beat to narrative beat.

[00:32:58] And then there's a calendar system, very similar to Persona 5, where days go by and within specific

[00:33:05] days you perform certain actions, whether that's like a main quest, a side quest or whatever.

[00:33:14] And the way it works is like you do a side quest.

[00:33:17] And then when that finishes, time goes by and then you're in the night and then you basically have like one more option of something else you can do.

[00:33:23] And then that will move time forward.

[00:33:26] And then I don't know if it's going to work this way for the whole game, but they kind of introduce you to the concept.

[00:33:31] Very similar to Persona 5.

[00:33:33] Like, so they have a main dungeon situation.

[00:33:37] You can enter the dungeon and make progress through the dungeon, but then you can actually leave.

[00:33:42] But you just have to finish by a certain number of days.

[00:33:47] Yeah.

[00:33:47] And so it's like an interesting way that they did this design.

[00:33:51] So you can leave and you can kind of go back out into the, in this case, Grand Trad, which is where you're at in the prologue in the demo.

[00:34:02] And you can go out and you can do side quests, which, uh, allow you to increase, improve your relationship with your party members.

[00:34:10] Um, and then also increase these individual traits that you're trying to build.

[00:34:14] And as you do different types of side quests that will increase and improve different types of traits.

[00:34:19] And as you do that, that has an impact on combat, which translates to unlocking or leveling up your various, um, what are the things called again?

[00:34:33] The archetypes.

[00:34:35] The archetypes.

[00:34:37] Yes.

[00:34:38] And we failed to mention like part of the story is this whole concept that when you go into combat, you are taking upon yourself.

[00:34:49] You are unleashing the power of these archetypes that are these like, I don't know, physical or spiritual.

[00:34:58] I don't even describe physical or like spiritual forms of beings that can perform different abilities that help you in combat.

[00:35:08] It doesn't.

[00:35:09] And you, you do it through this like mediator who is this sort of godly messenger who helps you kind of work through.

[00:35:19] I'm kind of like being, it's very hard to explain.

[00:35:21] I, I read all the text in the, in the demo and I still don't really like fully grasp what's happening.

[00:35:28] All I know is it gives you cool abilities so you can mess people up in combat.

[00:35:31] That's basically what it is.

[00:35:32] Yeah.

[00:35:32] Um, yeah.

[00:35:33] I mean, holy cow, is this game mechanically dense?

[00:35:37] Like there's, yeah.

[00:35:38] So I, and I think there's even way more than, yeah.

[00:35:42] Yeah.

[00:35:42] And that's the thing is like, I feel like, and I said this at the very beginning of, of recording,

[00:35:47] I feel like the demo cuts off right when you get into like the real gameplay loop of, of,

[00:35:53] of what it is.

[00:35:54] Yep.

[00:35:55] It takes a lot of exposition, like mechanical exposition.

[00:36:00] You are slowly being taught things like this calendar system that Cameron mentioned doesn't

[00:36:05] even show up until like you get to the very end of the prologue.

[00:36:08] Um, in, in the meantime, it's teaching you all different things about mechanics or like combat

[00:36:13] mechanics, especially things about archetypes.

[00:36:15] Um, one thing that I actually really liked.

[00:36:17] And so this person that you meet is like, is a fantasy author that is like imprisoned in

[00:36:25] their own personal library or study.

[00:36:31] And, and, um, you will, the main character, you have a book written by them.

[00:36:38] And it's what I thought was actually really cool.

[00:36:40] It's utopian fiction, which is something that does exist, but you know, with the current trend

[00:36:47] of dystopian fiction, I thought it was kind of nice to have them sort of flip that on their head.

[00:36:52] Like Will's obsessed with this utopian fiction book where everybody seems to get along regardless

[00:36:58] of tribe.

[00:36:59] And there's equality.

[00:37:00] And this is a huge component of this book.

[00:37:02] And every time you go talk to this guy more, um, he has a lot to say about equality.

[00:37:08] Um, the stuff that he, you know, I'm doing air quotes fantasizes about in his utopian

[00:37:14] fiction novels.

[00:37:16] Um, and then another theme that he constantly is talking about, and this ties into a mechanic

[00:37:20] specifically, which is why I'm talking about it here is that, uh, he's like, uh, one,

[00:37:25] one line that I really liked is a hero that stands alone is nothing but a single dissenter.

[00:37:31] And so, uh, the idea is that like a hero requires support requires there's a whole team of people

[00:37:40] or whole group or whole nation of people that's required to prop up a dissenter into becoming

[00:37:47] a hero.

[00:37:48] And so that is such an important theme narratively, but also mechanically, because if you want

[00:37:53] to unlock more archetypes, you must be able to find like the specific heroic trait within

[00:38:00] people that you develop bonds with in order to get more archetypes.

[00:38:06] And so some of these people will be folks that are in your party.

[00:38:10] And some of them I'm assuming are folks that don't ever actually join your party.

[00:38:14] They're just people that happen to possess a specific heroic trait that you were able to

[00:38:19] sort of translate through the help of more into an archetype.

[00:38:22] And yeah, an archetype is basically just like some sort of souped up version of whatever

[00:38:27] class that you happen to equip.

[00:38:29] It's a class.

[00:38:30] Um, and yeah, I, it's really great.

[00:38:32] And what I freaking love about it is it actually takes very little MP to use most of those abilities.

[00:38:38] So in combat, you're almost always using your archetype.

[00:38:41] Like that's how you primarily are dealing damage or performing interesting abilities

[00:38:46] is when you use the archetype.

[00:38:50] Yeah.

[00:38:51] Yeah.

[00:38:51] And you could do some interesting things there.

[00:38:52] Like there's a whole bunch of archetypes.

[00:38:54] You unlock them through various means, like through quests and through the main story and

[00:38:59] through side quests and building those heroic attributes, you can mix and match them in

[00:39:04] interesting ways.

[00:39:04] And then you can like take skills from other archetypes and give them to yourself while

[00:39:10] using a different archetype.

[00:39:11] Any, uh, character in your party can use any, uh, archetype.

[00:39:18] So that creates some interesting strategies.

[00:39:20] And so like when you go into a dungeon, I, for example, like went in, I was using like

[00:39:26] a certain combination was getting absolutely wrecked.

[00:39:29] And so then I went back, switched out a couple of things, went back in and I was wrecking

[00:39:33] dudes after that.

[00:39:34] And I was just like changing the strategy because as you, how you combine those different

[00:39:38] archetypes is going to dramatically change how you're going to engage in combat.

[00:39:43] A couple other interesting things is like you have a basic attack you can use as your person.

[00:39:49] You can also use items.

[00:39:50] You can also guard and then you can also move characters back and forth on the line.

[00:39:57] Yeah.

[00:39:58] So if you want like a specific character to take like the bulk of the damage, for example,

[00:40:04] if you leave them on the front.

[00:40:05] And so it opens up like all these different strategic possibilities, which I thought was

[00:40:10] really fun.

[00:40:11] And then on top of that, just amazing, like enemy and like boss design, just wild designs.

[00:40:17] This is like, this game is like a true, a true fantastic example, similar to the from

[00:40:24] games of having a team that has just done the same thing over and over and over again for

[00:40:30] so many years, they've just mastered a very specific style.

[00:40:35] And most of the Atlas games, to my knowledge, like have this specific style of this sort of

[00:40:41] calendar structure with a sort of basic world and then a dungeon.

[00:40:47] And they're just executing that to like the highest perfection here.

[00:40:51] And they've just, this is just something that they've mastered years and years over years

[00:40:55] and years and years.

[00:40:56] And it shows here, it shows like they just, they're doing something different than kind

[00:41:01] of the rest of the industry, but they have a style that they use and they just are executing

[00:41:06] it like to the highest degree.

[00:41:08] Yeah.

[00:41:09] I feel like this.

[00:41:11] So we haven't even touched all of the different combat mechanics.

[00:41:15] It is not your grandma's JRPG turn-based system.

[00:41:19] Like the stuff here, I feel like is super complicated, but it does a really fantastic job of pacing you

[00:41:24] through all of this.

[00:41:26] Like archetypes get introduced at a single point.

[00:41:28] What Cameron's talking about with the front line or back line, that is introduced at one

[00:41:33] specific point as well.

[00:41:34] And so it does layer things on there quite nice.

[00:41:37] And I was actually really surprised by the end of my time with the prologue, I actually

[00:41:42] felt really comfortable with all the different mechanisms in combat.

[00:41:47] Um, and then when you get to the first big dungeon, I mean, you, it's like, okay, this

[00:41:53] is your first real checkpoint.

[00:41:55] Do you understand these systems?

[00:41:56] And like Cameron saying, like you might be just getting absolutely destroyed, but when

[00:42:02] you go back and you tweak archetypes and this sort of inheritance thing is kind of insane.

[00:42:07] I think like you can take specific archetype abilities and transfer them to other archetypes

[00:42:12] and specific characters.

[00:42:13] So I actually ended up building a really robust mage build with, uh, the main character will,

[00:42:19] which was really fun.

[00:42:21] Um, but yeah, it's, it's really complicated.

[00:42:25] Um, and then outside of combat, the social system, right?

[00:42:30] Like you complete side quests and they might increase what I think the five kingly attributes,

[00:42:36] which is like, uh, uh, wisdom, uh, what was it?

[00:42:40] Wisdom tolerance.

[00:42:42] Um, and three others.

[00:42:44] They're really kind of bizarre for some reason.

[00:42:46] Yeah.

[00:42:47] Uh, I can't remember them all.

[00:42:49] I can't remember them all either, but it was interesting because as you progress, like

[00:42:54] those personality points, if you will, um, they're going to unlock different side quests

[00:42:59] also.

[00:43:00] And so you need those and it almost felt like, um, it almost felt like having five different

[00:43:05] types of like charisma checks when you were going and talking to different people.

[00:43:10] Um, so yeah, there's the social component also is really big.

[00:43:14] And then the calendar component, right?

[00:43:16] Which, um, uh, the prologue ends when you first really start getting into it.

[00:43:21] And, uh, I'm kind of mixed on that.

[00:43:24] I feel like it's something that would also just get used to, but the game like gives you

[00:43:28] this big warning in red letters.

[00:43:29] It's like, if you do not complete the first dungeon within 10 calendar days, you will get

[00:43:33] a game over.

[00:43:34] And so like there I am panicking, like, dude, I got to get through this dungeon is 10 days

[00:43:39] enough.

[00:43:40] I also have like seven different side quests that I can do to increase the social status

[00:43:44] and bonds and to unlock new archetypes.

[00:43:46] And so I felt like, um, it does hit you and it does get pretty overwhelming, but I did find

[00:43:52] that it only allows you three days out of these 10 calendar days that, um, you actually can

[00:43:58] do more in a day and night cycle than I initially thought.

[00:44:02] Um, you just have to be really careful with doing specific activities that will forward

[00:44:07] time.

[00:44:09] Otherwise I was like, okay, Jacob, you could take a breather here.

[00:44:12] You actually can get through some of this stuff.

[00:44:15] Yeah.

[00:44:18] Jake, any other thoughts on mechanics?

[00:44:20] I mean, we could go on forever.

[00:44:21] There's a billion mechanics here, but, um, there's, you know, dungeons and boss fights

[00:44:27] and like all that classic JRPG stuff.

[00:44:30] But I think the last thing I want to comment on is this game oozes with style.

[00:44:36] Yeah.

[00:44:36] Just, I mean, the menus alone, I mean, they just went, they just, they cooked like they,

[00:44:44] they just went all, I mean, there is so much crazy font going on on the screen at any

[00:44:51] given time and somehow they make it so it's doesn't feel like massively crowded or overdrawn

[00:44:59] or whatever.

[00:45:01] It just kind of works and it's just super stylish.

[00:45:04] And then to top it off, the music, just like the basic combat music is insane.

[00:45:10] It's just crazy.

[00:45:13] I don't even know how to describe it.

[00:45:14] Like just go right now, just Google metaphor, refenties, you like battle music.

[00:45:19] And you're kind of going to just sit in your chair and be like, what in the heck am I listening

[00:45:22] to right now?

[00:45:23] It's, it's extremely rare that I feel like a game can pull off visuals that are so incredibly

[00:45:30] busy and loud at the same time.

[00:45:33] Yes.

[00:45:34] But still have some clarity as to what it is you're actually looking at.

[00:45:41] Honestly, it's kind of one of those things where it's like, don't try to replicate this

[00:45:46] because nine out of 10 times you will not be able to replicate what's happening here.

[00:45:51] Like it is, it is, I almost feel like if you were to take in folks, I am not a game dev

[00:45:58] by any means, but I feel like if you were to take like a UI HUD 101 class, they would tell

[00:46:06] you not to do every single thing that they do in metaphor refenties.

[00:46:11] You know what I mean?

[00:46:12] Like, I almost feel like the people who design the UI, the HUD, these are people that are

[00:46:17] so familiar with the rules that they know exactly how and where to break all the rules and still

[00:46:22] make it work.

[00:46:23] Like, I don't know.

[00:46:24] I look at this and I'm like, dude, this is advanced level stuff.

[00:46:26] Like, I don't know how they're making it that I can actually see what's still going on and

[00:46:30] enjoy what's going on despite this screen being so freaking cluttered.

[00:46:37] Yeah.

[00:46:37] It's crazy.

[00:46:38] It's, it's definitely to your point.

[00:46:40] It's definitely something that you are not going to learn in design school.

[00:46:43] Yeah.

[00:46:44] Don't do this for your first game.

[00:46:45] And user interface design, you know, they're going to be like, no, this isn't going to work.

[00:46:53] And somehow there works.

[00:46:55] Yeah.

[00:46:57] Let's move on to impact on the industry.

[00:46:59] I mean, obviously this is the demo.

[00:47:03] So, you know, I think in terms of an impact, I, I think I've already brought up one piece,

[00:47:08] which I think I have three points here.

[00:47:10] Number one is if you're a game company, keep your veteran teams together as long as you possibly

[00:47:18] can.

[00:47:18] Oh yeah.

[00:47:19] And I, and you will, and it will pay dividends.

[00:47:24] Yeah.

[00:47:25] And that's one of those things that probably on a spreadsheet, as we've seen with teams

[00:47:29] like Bioware and like all these famous teams where kind of the most veteran people have

[00:47:33] are all gone now.

[00:47:34] Right.

[00:47:35] Like Blizzard and Bioware, even like, I think most of the old guard is, is not there anymore.

[00:47:41] They're not working on that.

[00:47:43] Um, but you see companies like Atlas and you see Nintendo and you see these companies that

[00:47:49] are able to keep the core team there and like thriving.

[00:47:54] And look, that's hard to do in the games industry.

[00:47:57] I think big companies, obviously we've, we've talked ad nauseum about how toxic this and tough

[00:48:02] this industry is and how these companies are not satisfied with just making like they just

[00:48:07] disbanded the, uh, we didn't talk about it in the news day, but they just, they just disbanded

[00:48:13] the Prince of Persia team, which sucks, which, which I mean, that game was highly critically

[00:48:19] received, but it just didn't make enough to keep that team together.

[00:48:23] And they made what I consider to be like one of the best Metroidvanias I've ever played

[00:48:27] that just plays fantastically.

[00:48:30] And it's just an amazing game.

[00:48:31] And so that knowledge now of how to make what they made with Prince of Persia, it's gone.

[00:48:37] It's just totally gone.

[00:48:38] Now, various different people, they have that in their heads, but unless they're kind of

[00:48:43] together and gelling and, and can do what they do, you can't have a game like

[00:48:49] metaphor, right?

[00:48:50] You just, it's just not going to happen.

[00:48:52] You can't have games like tears of the kingdom.

[00:48:54] And so we see that as, and I think that's probably at the root of what part of not the

[00:49:01] whole answer, but part of the reason why games cost so much to make and take so long

[00:49:07] to make and are so hard to make is because when you don't have like that veteran team

[00:49:14] that has been together forever and knows what they're doing and has the chance to refine

[00:49:18] and refine and refine and really cook on kind of what they're doing.

[00:49:21] I just think it makes it hard.

[00:49:23] And I think metaphor is an example of when you can do that, really good things seem to

[00:49:28] happen.

[00:49:29] Yeah.

[00:49:30] I sort of equate this in my own personal life where making a course from scratch to teach

[00:49:37] like a full 15 week semester course takes a whole lot of time.

[00:49:42] If I'm able to reteach that course and just simply revise it every single semester that

[00:49:46] I teach that course again, that course becomes closer and closer to the best version of that

[00:49:52] course that it can be.

[00:49:53] Right.

[00:49:54] That's a great analogy.

[00:49:55] But by asking me to redo reinvent the wheel over and over again.

[00:50:00] And folks, that's just one person.

[00:50:02] Right.

[00:50:03] Imagine taking a whole team.

[00:50:05] You ask the whole team to create something from scratch and then you disperse that team.

[00:50:11] Dude, I mean, it's just outrageous.

[00:50:13] Right.

[00:50:13] And I think you're right, Cameron.

[00:50:15] I mean, I'm thinking about the games that we have mentioned in this episode.

[00:50:18] We're talking about metaphor.

[00:50:19] We're talking about Elden Ring.

[00:50:21] You brought up Tears of the Kingdom.

[00:50:22] We're talking about Baldur's Gate 3 and they all, from my knowledge, have that in common.

[00:50:28] They have...

[00:50:28] Yeah.

[00:50:29] Larian, another example.

[00:50:30] Like they built up over time with Divinity 1.

[00:50:35] Not very many people played.

[00:50:37] Divinity 2 kind of got them in the spotlight.

[00:50:40] And then they were able to take that huge risk because they knew what they wanted to do.

[00:50:45] Right.

[00:50:46] And they spent a couple hundred million dollars, but they had that core knowledge.

[00:50:49] Yeah.

[00:50:50] And so, yeah, I think you're right.

[00:50:52] That's probably the number one takeaway from something like Metaphor.

[00:50:54] And if you think about these three games that we're comparing now, right?

[00:50:59] Metaphor, Elden Ring, and Baldur's Gate 3.

[00:51:02] They were able to break out of their traditional demographic.

[00:51:07] Right.

[00:51:08] Because the quality of product that they had was so high because they're able to make a really specific product that is faithful to their vision and faithful to the expertise that their teams have to offer.

[00:51:20] And these are games.

[00:51:21] So, I looked this up.

[00:51:22] Metaphor ReFantasio sold one million units on the same day it launched.

[00:51:26] Right.

[00:51:26] It was its fastest selling game developed by Atlas.

[00:51:29] Like this is a breakout game for them.

[00:51:31] This is the kind of game that just offers like pretty much that rare kind of security that these game studios really need this time.

[00:51:41] Right.

[00:51:41] Like right now, like historically in this historic moment.

[00:51:45] And so, it is kind of cool to think of it as like, I don't know.

[00:51:48] I'm curious.

[00:51:49] Like my like normal, regular, casual gamer friends.

[00:51:54] Are they going to be like, Jacob, have you heard of like Metaphor ReFantasio?

[00:51:58] The same way they're like, Jacob, have you heard of Elden Ring?

[00:52:00] You know?

[00:52:02] And I kind of, I kind of wondering, right?

[00:52:04] Will people be like, dude, I mean, hearing so many great things about this game.

[00:52:07] I think it's currently sitting at like a 94 or something on, on Metacritic.

[00:52:12] It's one of the best reviewed games this year.

[00:52:15] And yeah, I agree.

[00:52:17] Absolutely agree.

[00:52:17] That is a large part due to the fact that they have a team that was able to perfect their craft.

[00:52:24] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:52:27] Yeah, I mean, the other, the other comment I have is put out a demo that with save that progresses to the main game.

[00:52:35] I mean, just do it.

[00:52:36] Just do it with every game that's ever been made.

[00:52:38] Like, I think that this tactic alone could sell so many more copies of the game.

[00:52:44] I wouldn't have bought this game in a million years unless I had played the demo the way that I did.

[00:52:49] Like that, I mean, not straight up direct tie to me, like buying this game was I got to try the game.

[00:52:58] Yeah.

[00:52:58] And actually like experience a really solidly decent chunk.

[00:53:03] I think that's an amazing strategy for basically every game.

[00:53:06] Every game should have a demo.

[00:53:09] Yeah.

[00:53:09] And I realized that's like an ask from developers, especially developers that are stressed against a timeline to try and get something out.

[00:53:18] They're already, these AAA developers are already like pushed to the limit just to get the thing out the door on day one.

[00:53:25] Then you add that you need like a demo that doesn't have any bugs that everyone's going to be playing.

[00:53:29] And there's probably the conversation of like, well, maybe they, if they play the demo and they don't like it, they won't pre-order.

[00:53:35] I'm sure that happens.

[00:53:36] Right.

[00:53:37] Right.

[00:53:37] But man, you put out a demo and you're confident in your game.

[00:53:40] I think way more people are going to buy it.

[00:53:42] So, I mean, I think you said it right there at the end.

[00:53:44] And I think being able to put out a demo like this requires like an immense amount of confidence in the product that you have.

[00:53:52] But yeah, it requires that, but also requires a specific level of security probably.

[00:53:57] Although, you know, maybe I'm contradicting myself a little bit because like Steam Next Fest just happened where a bunch of indie games put out their demos.

[00:54:06] But truth be told, those demos in a lot of way are specifically designed not just to get interest and not just to get wishlets, but to get feedback.

[00:54:15] And so very rarely, if ever, are you going to play a demo from Steam Next Fest where that progress will save.

[00:54:22] And that will transfer to the game 1.0 when it launches.

[00:54:27] And so, yeah, you need...

[00:54:30] I'm trying to think, man, what other games have had demos like this where your progress is saved?

[00:54:36] And I don't want to count Dragon's Dogma 2 because that was just the character creator, right?

[00:54:41] Which I really appreciated.

[00:54:42] And I wish more games would at least do that.

[00:54:44] But I don't know.

[00:54:47] It is a rare thing.

[00:54:49] But in the case of Metaphor, I mean, it worked on me and it worked on Cameron.

[00:54:55] Absolutely.

[00:54:57] Absolutely did.

[00:54:58] Weird episode about a demo, but it was so effective that we're making a podcast about it.

[00:55:03] So, you know, I hope there's demos for...

[00:55:08] Game Pass should have a demo.

[00:55:10] You know what I mean?

[00:55:10] Just try Game Pass for a month for free.

[00:55:12] I think I get people to sign up.

[00:55:14] Microsoft, if you're listening.

[00:55:16] I like to try things before I buy it, right?

[00:55:18] It's like you could take the car for a test drive.

[00:55:20] I don't buy the car.

[00:55:20] I'm just like a test drive of the car.

[00:55:22] You know what I mean?

[00:55:23] Yeah.

[00:55:23] I think Game Pass did do that.

[00:55:25] But I think they actually took away their trial right now before Black Ops 6 came out.

[00:55:30] I mean, yeah.

[00:55:31] Now that you got Black Ops, it's kind of like...

[00:55:34] Although that's a totally different, interesting conversation is how many people are going to play Black Ops through Game Pass?

[00:55:40] How many net new Game Pass subscribers are going to come from Black Ops 6?

[00:55:45] How many of those standard...

[00:55:48] I buy Mad and I buy Black...

[00:55:49] I buy Call of Duty.

[00:55:50] I buy NBA 2K.

[00:55:53] And those are the only three games I buy per year, which is like 95% of the gamer audience or more.

[00:56:00] How many of those will go, I'm going to sign up for Game Pass so I can get Black Ops 6?

[00:56:04] Or are they just going to buy it straight up like retail?

[00:56:07] Are they even going to know that that's even an option?

[00:56:10] I don't know.

[00:56:11] Good question.

[00:56:12] Different topic for a different time.

[00:56:14] But anyway, put out a demo.

[00:56:18] And Cameron and I wholeheartedly suggest that you try this one.

[00:56:21] It's on all major platforms right now.

[00:56:24] See?

[00:56:25] I don't know.

[00:56:26] People talk so highly Persona 5, but I was just never going to bite.

[00:56:29] And this is the bait that got me to bite.

[00:56:34] Absolutely.

[00:56:36] Well, ladies and gentlemen, this has been our episode on Metaphor ReFantasio Prologue Demo.

[00:56:40] Weird episode on a demo.

[00:56:42] We've never done that before.

[00:56:43] But this is a chunky demo.

[00:56:44] I mean, this is like a 10-hour demo.

[00:56:47] So we've done full episodes on games that are three hours or less.

[00:56:51] So we're like, why not?

[00:56:52] Let's do it.

[00:56:53] We both played it.

[00:56:53] We both were really impacted by it.

[00:56:55] Part 2 maybe coming in the future.

[00:56:58] If Jake and I find the time to play an 80-hour game and actually finish it.

[00:57:02] 2030 maybe.

[00:57:03] Be on the lookout.

[00:57:05] Yep.

[00:57:05] I mean, I bought it.

[00:57:07] I'm planning to play more of it.

[00:57:08] We will see.

[00:57:12] We'll do like updated thoughts and full story spoilers and things like that.

[00:57:17] But yeah.

[00:57:19] But for now, leave us a review if you like this episode.

[00:57:23] If you like conversations about demos, if there are good ones out there.

[00:57:27] I played some Steam Next Fest stuff.

[00:57:30] Although I wasn't really impressed with, to be honest, Jake, with this go-around of Steam Next Fest.

[00:57:36] I was a little bored, to be honest.

[00:57:37] The last few, I've had some great demos.

[00:57:39] But anyway.

[00:57:41] Leave a review on your podcast platform of choice.

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[00:58:27] Thanks so much for listening and have a great night.