Indiana Jones and The Great Circle

[00:00:09] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Period Bonus Podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Cameron Warren, and I'm joined as always by the pixel professor, Jacob Price. It's January 23rd, 2025. And we're back to talk about video games. Jake, what did you think of that developer direct? This is like the second year in a row they've done this. Is that right? Or is this three years maybe? The last?

[00:00:37] This is the third developer direct that they've done. They've all been winners, man. I don't know. I feel like Xbox has finally gotten a hold of how they want to kind of command some of the discussion around what that is that they're doing, which is a good thing because I feel like Xbox's woes tend to be relatively public just because they're a little more, I guess,

[00:01:05] forthright with what they're doing. But anyway, that all aside, we saw four games. They actually talked about five games total with that surprise shadow drop of the Ninja Gaiden 2 remaster. I thought we were done with shadow drops, but we're not. I mean, this is cool. I mean, It was a great shadow drop.

[00:01:27] It was great. I mean, being able to shadow drop like a whole game like Hi-Fi Rush is I think that maybe is gone. But dude, if they if they want to keep announcing like cool random remasters, by all means, more than more than happy to have that included in the showcase. But we got three release dates. We got announcements and Ninja Gaiden 4, which I'm not a Ninja Gaiden person, but tons of people I'm sure are just super excited about it.

[00:01:55] I actually downloaded Ninja Gaiden 2 Black because I haven't played one. I know they're notoriously tough and I'm going to kind of see what it's like. So I think overall a tremendous success. Really, we could talk about the games individually, but I think in terms of like what the direct did, what it accomplished, super well done.

[00:02:13] Fantastic directs. I think they nailed it. I'm with you. I've never played a Ninja Gaiden. I've heard tons of people talk about them with like major reverence and just love those games. And then the fact that they dropped Black, I think it's like the perfect shadow drop because it's a game kind of nobody was expecting. Everybody who loved that game in the past is going to immediately download and play it.

[00:02:41] But everybody who saw the trailer for Ninja Gaiden 4 is going to be like, oh, I kind of want to play this now, but I wasn't going to be able to play it. Well, now I can just go play this one that I probably never played. So it's like it's perfect. It was like perfect storm. Oh, I agree. I think it was incredibly smart of them to do what they did. And I was surprised that they started the showcase with sort of the mystery, you know, game, the mystery developer.

[00:03:10] But I actually think it ended up being a really excellent way to start precisely because they're like, hey, Ninja Gaiden 4 is coming out. We're shooting for fall 2025. So it's a game that's coming this year. And then they even said it right. Like and in the meantime, play this remaster of, you know, an iconic game from this franchise.

[00:03:28] So suddenly I think today, you know, Xbox servers were whirring and beeping and chirping as, you know, thousands of Game Pass subscribers downloaded Ninja Gaiden Black 2. Yeah, absolutely. No, they nailed it. We also saw South of Midnight quite a bit more of that. I mean, I think the art direction and like the vibes of this are really cool.

[00:03:55] And I think they're doing some really cool stuff with the story and not piece looks interesting. I'm a little worried about the combat. I got major banishers of New Eden vibes from the combat. And I'll be honest, I was not like the biggest fan of banishers. Like it wasn't bad. And that's hope, you know, that's probably not like the central piece here. So I don't know. We probably don't need to worry about that piece. Maybe that's a big deal for me.

[00:04:22] So I think if a game's like core, if this game's core loop is around like that mechanics, that combat mechanics part of it, which is what they kind of showed off in that video a little bit, that has me a little bit concerned. But all the other parts seem to be looking really good. So I don't know. Yeah, I think, let's see, I wasn't, to be honest, I wasn't paying too much attention to the combat because the art direction, the environment, all that stuff seems so great.

[00:04:51] And yeah, that is really fantastic. But like in retrospect, whatever it is, to toe Tom. Is that what it is? I think it's to toe Tom. Yeah. The crocodile. Dude, it's great. And I love being able to see like, okay, let's do something and like based in Southern folklore, you know, and it, it looks cool. It feels super original, feels fresh. Yeah.

[00:05:16] I personally was kind of comparing it to Flintlock Siege of Dawn because the traversal. Yeah, that's another one. Very much looks like Flintlock. And then I banishers. I was also getting banishers vibes because it feels like, it's not going to be like full on detective ghost stories, but it did feel like that you do see like echoes or resonances of people who have been there before. So I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm excited to see what the final product really is.

[00:05:45] And we don't have to wait that long. That was actually probably my favorite part of the showcase. So three release dates we got were April 8th, April 24th and May 15th. The dominoes are finally falling. Yeah. And let's not forget, we have avowed next month. That's right. Right. And then we've got three games back to back. And then we got the whole back half of the year, which we'll hear about in June. So has Xbox figured it out, man?

[00:06:14] Have they figured it out? So Ninja Gaiden, right? So that's saying fall 2025. And then, I mean, this kind of lends credence to, do we see Fable and Outer Worlds 2 and Ninja Gaiden 4 all in the fall? I think we easily could. Dude, and that would, honestly, that would be a great fall, right? Like, they'd be super, I'd be super pleased with that.

[00:06:39] Claire Obscura 33, man, this is, this continues to look pretty freaking cool, dude. Like, Final Fantasy throwback and, like, a weird setting and, like, French, European, crazy, wacky stuff going on with, like, cool turn-based combat. I mean, this is a small team, super small team, very ambitious project. But if they can pull it off, this could be something special. Yeah.

[00:07:05] I, my expectations are slowly, I guess, escaping the restraints that I have put on them for this game. Like, they're starting to go unchecked. I got really hyped looking at all the stuff they showed off. Combat is still looking fantastic. Art direction looks, like, supreme. The overworld map traveling, dude, that had me totally sucked in.

[00:07:32] But this is a debut from a small team with a super ambitious project. So my biggest concerns actually are I don't really know a whole lot about the story. Story is super important for something like this. We, of course, are getting general overviews of the story. But I don't know if I'm going to like the characters or kind of the plot events that they go through. Hopefully I do. And then the other thing is, like, man, a game this beautiful.

[00:08:01] I hope it performs well, man. I just hope that it plays really nice. Because I feel like a game. Also featuring Charlie Cox. That's right. As the main character, voice actor. Daredevil. Yeah. I mean, there's a few in there. Which we're getting a new season of in March. Oh, wow. That finally is coming out, huh? Yeah. It looks good. I'm excited. So this spring is the spring of Charlie Cox.

[00:08:31] The spring of Charlie has hereby been named. Yes. We have named it. And then finally we saw Doom the Dark Ages, which looks like a cool Doom game. I mean, Doom games are cool. I probably won't finish this. I never finished Eternal, but I had fun for the five hours that I put into it. I mean, you're just blowing up monsters. This is pretty cool. They give you a chainsaw shield.

[00:09:01] So, I mean, that in and of itself is enough to kind of get me in for a few hours. Yeah. I think, honestly, I think that this Doom game is going to score crazy high in Metacritic. I think it's going to hit. I'm pretty confident in predicting that it'll hit high 80s. It just looks polished. It looks, I mean, it just looks so clean, man. It looks good. It looks like a lot of fun. It looks like there's a lot of great mechanics.

[00:09:32] I love that they're not doing a lot of verticality and it's a lot of like strafing combat and a lot of parrying. I think that looks great. The scenes that stole the show for me, at least with this presentation with Doom was, dude, giant mech punching giant demon in face. Dude, nothing got my like teenage testosterone hormones, adrenaline, like pumping faster than seeing just the mech just clock one of those demons in the face. It's just cool, you know?

[00:10:02] It's cool. It's like this sort of, I don't know, primeval coolness factor in there. So I think that game is just going to be so much fun. I'm probably, you know, I'm probably going to play it on easy just for ultimate overpowered fantasy factor. So many games stacking up already the kind of first half of this year. We have just an amazing lineup at this first half of the year and it's about to start.

[00:10:30] We're only a couple weeks out from the downpour of games in February and then the continuation of that in March. And then we have this full lineup from Xbox. So super exciting stuff, man. Very exciting stuff in the beginning of the year. And we're backed up right now. We have, I think, a few games that we're set to talk about.

[00:10:53] Today is our kind of first one of getting back to our normal routine in 2025. Finally, circling back to it. Hopefully you enjoyed our special episodes. But we're circling back to it and we're doing it with an Xbox Studios game, in fact. And that's Indiana Jones. Dude, that's right. Indiana Jones in the great circle. Indiana Jones in the great circle. Dang.

[00:11:20] Clearly, listen, we both enjoyed this game. So you're going to hear a lot of positive stuff from us. But probably the most boring Indiana Jones title that I could think of. Yeah. Not the sexiest title. I'll say that. The great circle. Jake, how are we going to break down? How do you, what do you do to a circle? Do you break down a circle? How are we going to break?

[00:11:50] How are we going to, how are we going to. You measure its circumference. How are we going to hula hoop Indiana Jones in the great circle? Hula hoop. Beautiful. We will be hula hooping three grand rotations in this episode. See what you did there. Yeah. So first we're going to talk about the narrative of Indiana Jones of the great circle.

[00:12:14] The story that's going on and the feat that it really is to pull off an Indiana Jones that very much harkens to the original trilogy. Next, we'll be talking about the game design. So here we'll be talking about the mechanics of the game, kind of level design and how the game moves you forward. Kind of what it is that you're supposed to do and accomplish in each area level, if we want to call them that, before you, I mean, as you progress and eventually beat the game.

[00:12:41] And then finally, we'll be talking about impact on the industry. This is a really interesting title to discuss in part because of its release date, but also because we know that this game is coming to PS5 in about five months. So at the end of the episode, we will cap it off with the discussion about kind of what this game has done for the industry and how people will be looking at it and talking about it in the near and far future.

[00:13:09] Indiana Jones and the great circle diving into the narrative. I'm not shy about saying this is the best narrative for me of 2024. Ooh, some end of the year, maybe revision happening. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:27] I think we, there could be some potential retconning of our game of the year, 2024 episode possibly because I just, man, this is just such a great, such a great game that does have its faults and it does have problems. But when you put all of the intangibles of this game together, it leads to something greater than the sum of its parts.

[00:13:56] I think in a really sort of amazing way that it kind of comes together. Cause if you take each of the parts individually and we'll dive into each of those, they're kind of not like the greatest ever. I think aside from maybe the narrative piece, which I think the narrative stands alone as possibly could have been produced and made into an Indiana Jones film. Oh yeah. And been like one of the better films, maybe even beating out temple of doom probably.

[00:14:28] Um, and so the story like just stand on, stands on its own as an amazing Indiana Jones adventure with a fantastic mystery, with great locations, with interesting characters, with, uh, intriguing exploration of like Indiana Jones as a character.

[00:14:45] And kind of his, his personality and kind of exploring that and like his relationships with women a little bit, you know, and how he solves problems and like all these different kinds of characters that pop up. And then sort of a classic Indiana Jones villain that sort of kind of fits the bill of Indiana Jones villain that you could imagine. Yeah. But just somehow like you don't care because you just want that type of villain.

[00:15:13] I, you know, um, at least that's how I felt. And then just making Nazis the enemy again, like you just can, just can never go wrong. You can just never go wrong when the Nazis are the bad guy. It's just, they're the best bad guy because they're just so undeniably punchable in the face. Oh yeah. So yeah, there's so, that's my initial thoughts. They're so undeniably.

[00:15:39] And obviously there's a reason why they're the go-to bad guy is because they're so obviously the bad guy always, you know? So it's cool to have them featured in a video game where you get to punch the lights out of them left and right. Holy cow. Um, yeah, the narrative here, um, it's, I mean, it's a good one. It's really good.

[00:16:01] Now what, what is super unusual about this narrative is that you kind of spend the majority of the game essentially chasing these stones that need to be used. There's some sort of undecipherable language that's on them and they're used for some purpose. And quite frankly, you don't know what that purpose is until pretty late in the game, which for, uh, this is highly unusual.

[00:16:28] I feel like for any narrative in any medium to kind of put the carrot on an especially long stick. Right. And so what's carrying you through the game is the writing, just the moment to moment writing and the voice acting. Right. So Troy Baker doing an absolutely phenomenal job, you know, playing phenomenal job. Just a gorgeous, gorgeous job playing, uh, Harrison Ford's, you know, voice as Indiana Jones.

[00:16:57] And it's kind of his subtle discoveries. It's his excitement. It's him talking, uh, with, with Gina. Um, and it's them sort of progressing and finally getting enough information that kind of tips the scales to what they figure out what is going on. But yeah, that happens quite late in the game, which is just so surprising. So you actually spend a whole lot of time in this game with the characters and their characterization. You're seeing how different plot events shape their growth. You're meeting new people.

[00:17:27] And quite frankly, I think that this is a little more common than we might believe in the original trilogy. Right. I think it like Raiders of the Lost Ark, I think does kind of follow this narrative pattern. Um, or I should say Indiana Jones of the Great Circle follows or inherits this narrative pattern from like Raiders of the Lost Ark. So it's not like, it's definitely at home in the Indiana Jones franchise.

[00:17:55] But this is something that is really difficult to pull off. Just really a lot of the big narrative hits. The twists are coming much later in the game that you would expect. And to be honest, um, I did get a little bit of whiplash because the first area you go to is Vatican City. But this is during, um, Mussolini's fascist rule of Italy. And so a lot of the tensions that are kind of built there are more thematic than they actually have to do with the main narrative arc of the story. Right.

[00:18:23] Which is a little unusual. I think you kind of start the game. I would say treading water narratively, but there are so many other exciting things about the game that it's not so much of a bother as it should be. So I think don't copy this narrative arc pattern. I don't think it works for most games, but they did pull it off for Indiana Jones. Yeah.

[00:18:49] And the overlying, the underlying sort of, uh, plot, which is explained in the trailers is this idea of the great circle, which is this series of relics that are interconnected in some unexplained way. The only thing that they know is that if you map all of the locations where these are at is that they form a quote unquote great circle. And so they figured that out and that's kind of explained in the trailer and that's like the setting.

[00:19:19] So as you can imagine, that leads you to go to different locations and discover these and then figure out, as Jake mentioned very late in the story, what is the actual significance of all of these? Um, but what this game does do also that from a narrative perspective that I really like is it goes deep in on like, uh, we've used this, this terminology. We've talked about this terminology before when we talked about, I can't remember what game we were talking about.

[00:19:49] We were talking about Christian mythology. Yeah. Like Christian mythos. And this game does interesting things where they, they like, they connect, uh, a whole bunch of different cultures together with like Christian mythos in a really interesting way.

[00:20:16] Um, I'm trying to think of like other, another game that you could compare this to in similar fashion. Oh, we is, um, the forgotten city. Yeah. The forgotten city. Yeah. And I love the forgotten city. It's fantastic. And this has like a, a very similar feeling to it for, from a narrative perspective and how you like uncover and unpack the narrative. And the other comment I'll make that I really like is the side quest in this. Oh yeah.

[00:20:46] Tie pretty integrally, integrally, integrally, integrally. I'm not saying that right. Into the main story in a sense that like you can skip them, but they're the best kind of side quest because they're just additive to the main story and they build on it. And they make it feel stronger without feeling like you have to do them. Like you could skip them. And I, I didn't do everything in the game. I, I didn't a hundred percent this at all.

[00:21:14] I did do most of the side quests, I think, cause I wanted to. Um, but I did some side quests and some things happened in the side coast. I was like, Oh, that was a side quest, man. That feels like, dang, that was like pretty critical to the main story. And so I really liked feeling that way that I could have skipped it, but I stumbled into something like really interesting and really additive to the main story because I did it. Yeah. Um, the side quests, I agree. We're really wonderfully written. There's a lot of great character development.

[00:21:43] I just, you know, you know, Indiana Jones from the movies, you know, his bravado, you know, his personality and kind of who he is and what he stands for. And I think it was quite remarkable that they were able to add, like build upon so much of who that Indiana Jones character is in super wonderful and insightful ways. So several times, some of these happen later in the game.

[00:22:10] So I'm going to speak about them a little vaguely, but, um, something wonderful I think is that Indiana Jones first and foremost has an appreciation, admiration, and obsession for cultural history. And so this is why he's an archaeologist. This is why he's a professor of archaeology.

[00:22:28] But this is also why he goes to such great lengths to, well, primarily fight against Nazis who are trying to steal, corrupt, or appropriate for nefarious ends all these different cultural histories. And so he has, like, these really strong convictions. And it's wonderful to see these moments in which he's speaking with different people in the different localities about their cultural history.

[00:22:56] And many of them are like, hey, Indiana Jones, this guy, you know, Air Voss, he was just here and he was just robbing us blind of all of our cultural artifacts. Aren't you the same as him? And then many times Indiana Jones explains that, no, I am not. That guy's a bad guy. He's taking your stuff to do bad things with it. I'm not here to, like, plunder all of your goods. You know, I'm here to really just protect your cultural history and kind of what it is that you have here.

[00:23:25] And so I think the game actually speaks really well to late 19th century, early 20th century, just like European-led excavations of all these different ancient civilizations. And which is a topic that we don't discuss quite a lot. But, you know, there's this whole movement to kind of understand the world in a new and specific way that kind of creates the notion of world history that we have. And, you know, Indiana Jones takes place during all this.

[00:23:54] And it's super interesting to see, like, no, Indiana Jones, the reason he wants it in a museum isn't so much so that his home, you know, of the United States of America can boast this, like, cultural knowledge and wealth of artifacts from across the world. But it's more like he is so excited and passionate about learning about other cultures.

[00:24:15] He wants other people to have that same level of appreciation and not kind of take advantage of those cultural histories for Nazi crap. And so I don't know. Obviously, I'm waxing a little poetic here. But I thought that, like, all the side content just built this Indiana Jones character and his convictions in a really strong and wonderful way.

[00:24:36] I think one of the modern criticisms of Indiana Jones has been like, okay, he's going and he's, like, taking these relics from these sacred places that are sacred to these cultures. They should, like, stay with that culture. I think in the context of, like, what he's doing and how he's doing it is he's trying to, like, protect these artifacts from, like, Nazis. Which, whether or not that's a real-life scenario, it's probably not.

[00:25:07] Nowadays, I don't think there's, like, war – I don't think – I mean, it could be a great documentary if there's, like, warring archaeological factions out there in the world that are, like, fighting over these – I mean, I don't – frankly, I don't know what it's even left to find of ancient civilization. There's probably still a lot. I don't know nothing about archaeology in the modern age. But anyway, this is in the 1930s, which also, by the way, is a freaking cool fact. I just – I don't know why. I love – I just love this period of history.

[00:25:36] It's just fascinating to me. And this is obviously – this is pre-World War II, in the buildup to World War II. Nazi Germany is on the rise. Fascism is super strong. They're on the verge of, like, total war and everyone kind of senses it, right? So all this is happening, like, with the heightened tension of that. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think what Indiana Jones and the Great Circle does very well and from the get-go is establish that it is historical fiction, right?

[00:26:06] And it really leans into the history side of historical fiction of, like, saying, hey, this is what's going on in these different countries and these different locations. I think the game takes place in 1937, if I'm not mistaken. Right. Whereas in the movies, you can easily forget that something's happening in 1930, whatever the movie's in, because it's more about the adventure and less about the historical fiction.

[00:26:28] And honestly, I see this as a positive, because if you're going to have an Indiana Jones story that's going to be closer to 20 hours than it is two hours long, you need stuff in there. And I think they drew on the appropriate force, you know, of sources, is what I mean to say, to create a really solid historical fiction foundation. And so there's just so many cool things in there that you can read about.

[00:26:53] Like, from the very beginning, right, you're in Vatican City, and they are definitely being repressed because of Mussolini. And you are learning about, oh, so this is kind of what was happening with all these Catholic priests during this time period, right? And then when you go to Giza, and then you go to other locations that I won't mention just for fear of spoiling, you kind of learn like, oh, so this is somewhat maybe the conditions that these people were like dealing with. So I don't know. Very cool.

[00:27:23] I'm super impressed. It seems to me that Machine Games very much did their homework on the history side of things, but also on the Indiana Jones side of things. There is in the last crusade that scene where he gets his Indiana Jones archaeology journal signed by Hitler. Remember that? Yeah. He's at like a Nazi rally by accident. I need to watch that movie again. Dude, classic. I've been wanting to watch all the Indiana Jones movies.

[00:27:51] I started the Temple of Doom, and I remembered that, oh, yeah, this is the worst one. I should just skip it. Yeah. Except for Kalima. That scene traumatized me as a kid. I was scary, dude. That's scary stuff. We haven't shown my kids that. I mean, we're not. It's freaky. That scene's freaky. Don't watch that with your kids. Nah, kids are not prepared. They've seen the other two from the original trilogy, though, and they loved them, man. They're all about fedoras and whips for a little bit there. Speaking of movies, I've had the flu the last few days.

[00:28:21] I watched the Hobbit movies all the way through. Never do that. Not with it. I was sick, so I had no choice. It was for research purposes. There you go. Let's move on to the design and mechanics conversation. So I think there's three different facets at play here.

[00:28:41] One is puzzle solving, using a combination of your notebook, your whip, and then just kind of moving around the map and interacting with things on the walls and temples and stuff. And then clues. And using your camera to take pictures of the wall, which gives you hints.

[00:29:09] And then combat, which is predominantly punching. Yeah. Pretty violent punching. Or slapstick makeshift grab something on the ground and slap someone over the head with it. Yeah. You are not... This is where this game gets a little janky. This is where this game gets a little bit janky to me, like in the combat part of it. So I'll start there.

[00:29:39] Let's start with the... I'll start there. So punching, it feels pretty good. But I don't know. I wanted it to feel... I kept wanting it to feel like Dishonored, but it's not. It's like not there, you know? Like it's sort of like maybe one or two steps down, probably two steps down from that.

[00:30:05] Where Dishonored is so much about the feeling and the floatiness and the skillfulness of moving around and like all the capabilities that you can do and just killing people. It's like a murder sandbox, right? That's kind of what Dishonored is. Yeah. Indiana Jones is not that. Indiana Jones is a puzzle sandbox, like an exploration sandbox that has sort of combat tacked on with the Indiana Jones flair of...

[00:30:32] Indiana Jones doesn't really murder thousands of people. Yeah. He kind of finds himself in situations and then he kind of gets out of it somehow. And they really try to stick to as close to that as possible in the game. And they don't let you be a murderer, a mass murderer, unless you accidentally fall into it. And I'll tell one funny story. And I wish I would have taken a screenshot.

[00:31:04] I wish I would have taken a screenshot because in the third area, which I won't spoil. Jake knows what area I'm talking about. Yeah. Because it has a certain exploration mechanic, which is really annoying, which we might spoil because it wasn't great. But anyway, I found myself stuck in a room that I needed to progress the story. But just as I got in there, I set the alarm off. And I was like, crap. I have to kill guys.

[00:31:34] So the entire camp came to this room. But for some reason, they trickled in like one by one. Yes. And so I ended up killing probably 40 guys. And this room just kept filling with NPCs until they were literally filled to the ceiling. I should have taken a screenshot. I literally murdered this entire camp. So the game is not designed for this. This was not like the right way to play the game.

[00:32:01] You're supposed to sneak in there and not get caught because usually you get caught. Too many guys come in. You're going to die. Yeah. But what happened is I used the mechanic in the game where if you get knocked out, you can grab your hat and you get a revive. Yeah. Well, the AI is really stupid, which is another weird thing in the game, right? The AI is really stupid. So you can recover, but if you're behind the guy, they will not see you. You will be.

[00:32:28] And so I revived invisible and was able to just hide in there while guys trickled in searching for me and just kill them one at a time until I killed like 50 people. Okay. We'll have to talk after the episode because same area, same thing happened to me. Same exact thing. Same exact thing where I set off an alarm, but I happened to be around this like corner. And so all these dudes are bottlenecked. So I'd like peek around the corner and there's like a line of 15 guys like trying to get into me.

[00:32:58] And then, yeah, I punched out the first few guys, took their guns, mowed down a few guys. This game is not generous with ammo. I played this on like medium, medium. So like what you can do is you can actually set there are two different difficulties. And I thought this was very cool. There's puzzle difficulty. And then there's like combat, like survival difficulty. So I did medium, medium for both. And yeah, you do not have a lot of ammo.

[00:33:24] So I'm you only mow down like four guys and then somebody else comes in, punches lights out, grab his gun, you know, take out a few more dudes and rinse and repeat until the entire camp was empty. Yeah. There's a few things I want to touch on that you said. And the enemy AI in this game is very stupid. And I think if this was any other game, it would have been a huge sticking point for criticism.

[00:33:49] This game reminded me of when I played Black Flag like two years ago. And I remember playing that and thinking, oh, this AI is old. These guys are stupid. Right. I found it really easy to stealth my way through that game. And mind you, I said this, you know, I'm playing this on medium. The AI is really dumb. But honestly, I think there are a few reasons why it works in this game.

[00:34:13] One, it's Indiana Jones and you're taking down Nazis and Nazis are stupid. And in the movies, the Nazis are very stupid. And so it just kind of makes sense in the universe of Indiana Jones, who's to be honest, he's kind of like when it comes to fighting and physical prowess, he's like a step or two above like your every man. Right. Right. He's basically a guy's got in a ton of fistfights in his life, but he loses plenty of fights in the movies, you know.

[00:34:42] And so to have this kind of stupid AI and you just get punched or lights out and sometimes you're stuck in a corner and you're in a pickle or whatever, it really made sense for Indiana Jones, the character and the franchise. So I think it worked for that. Two, it made for a really, really fun game. Just in that they made, I don't know how many takedown animations for when you're stealth, you know, taking out like entire camps. My favorite one is with a heavy weapon.

[00:35:10] If you're directly behind somebody, sometimes I took so many short videos of this because I'm very childish. I was giggling so much doing this, playing this game. So sledgehammer is my weapon of choice. Sneak up behind them. Stick the sledgehammer between the guy's legs. Just thrust upwards and just absolutely annihilate some dude's testicles, right? Knock him in the privates. Yep. Yep. He's hurting. He turns around and then you just smack him across the face and dude goes soaring, right?

[00:35:39] Like I knocked, I think one guy like 200 yards, you know, just... And so I think Indiana Jones is slapstick in so many ways. And so I think the dumb enemy AI makes sense so you can recreate tons of Indiana Jones slapstick moments. I admit that I think I've... I admit that I think the combat for me left a little to be desired. I think the stealth takedowns were fine.

[00:36:08] I think that was all fine. I think like stealth in general, it didn't need to be, I think, more than it was. Because you kind of want it... You want it to... I wanted it to be dishonored sometimes just because I am like a combat stickler guy. But it's just not that game. And so where the satisfaction comes is in the puzzle solving. And that's where I think the game sings. Is they made... Because usually I'm not a puzzle guy, right? I'm not a puzzle guy. I'm like trying...

[00:36:38] I'm Googling the solution. But most, if not all of the puzzles, just... I don't know if it's just the vibes. I don't know if it's the graphics. I'm not sure if it's like the puzzles. I don't know if it's like they made them just difficult enough where you had to think a little bit, but not so difficult where you felt like you had to look up the solution.

[00:37:02] Because I'm an idiot and I will look it up if I feel like any sense of my progress being halted. And I kind of never felt that. And so it was just cool. It was just like cool vibes to go solve the puzzles. And so you could... If you had enough of those, you could have just gone and just done that all day. And that could have been the whole game. And so the fact that you have combat here is just kind of fulfilled that Indiana Jones fantasy. I would have liked to felt a little bit more powerful in the combat parts. Just a teeny bit more. Maybe. I don't know.

[00:37:32] I don't even know what I'm looking for. This is why I don't make games because I couldn't do it. But yeah. But yeah. I mean, I think the puzzles is where it really shines. And they... They just do such a fantastic job, which is making that feel like you are Indiana Jones, that character. Troy Baker's ability to kind of express the excitement of Harrison's forward playing Indiana Jones.

[00:38:02] But in the game, as you're finding solutions to the puzzles and uncovering insights about these ancient cultures, just kind of hits all the notes and just makes that really satisfying.

[00:38:42] Yeah. And this game is full of puzzle moments that very much mimic what you're getting in the movies. And in fact, the line that kept coming back to my head is from Dr. Elsa Schneider, right? From The Last Crusade. Oh, yeah. She's talking to Indy about his dad. And he's like, just like your father. Who has relations with Indiana Jones and his father. Yeah. I wasn't going to get into that. But you know, this is true. And there's a funny moment. Why is that the one thing I remember about Elsa Schneider?

[00:39:12] Listen, she just wanted what she wanted. And she got what she wanted. But she's talking to Indy about his dad, Henry. And she says, just like your father, Giddy has a schoolboy. Right? Yeah. And honestly, that is a perfect... That was a good impression. Well, thank you. You know, my wife does German Duolingo, so I'm picking up a thing or two, right? Really? No, but that is very much how Indiana Jones expresses excitement. Right?

[00:39:41] Like, he's not yipping and hooting and hollering all that much when he's doing his puzzling. You can very much feel his brain work and tinker through something. I think that was replicated really well in the puzzles. Now, the weak... A rare criticism for me about this game, it all comes back to that third area, man. In the third area, however, there were some puzzles that I was like, hold on. This got a little obtuse. Yeah.

[00:40:07] Or there was a little too much platforming between important puzzle sections. Yeah. I know the one you're talking about. Yep. And so, things started to drag a bit. And I wasn't getting that same level of enthusiasm or excitement as I was kind of working through different aspects of puzzles. And I get that the game, like, you want pacing and you want things to sort of progress with player ability.

[00:40:32] I think it fell a little flat for me for some of those major puzzles in the third area, unfortunately. But I would say on the whole, with one other major exception, at the very beginning of the game, when you have to match the artifacts into the case at the museum, I was like, hold on a second. What clues am I getting? Do I need to actually know what the flag of Syria was like in 1932 or whatever in order to place this artifact?

[00:41:01] Anyway, tangent aside, I think I agree on the whole that puzzling was really well done. You felt that hushed excitement. You felt your brain moving just in, I don't know. You really felt like Indiana Jones, I feel like, in those moments. Yes. 100%. Jake, let's move into the, any other comments on the design of Indiana Jones? I mean, I'm sure there are so many different things I could talk about.

[00:41:29] I would say the notebook and the, like, personal inventory systems were not that intuitive. So, another criticism, I guess, for me about the game is it took me, I think, too long to sort of figure out how those systems worked. But the open hub areas, right? So, this game is very much, you've heard us talk about this third area, but the game is primarily, like, three open hubs.

[00:41:54] There are some major and beautiful, incredible set pieces in there as well, which I will talk about vaguely. Again, not to spoil. So, that's kind of how the game is structured, right? Hub area, set piece hub area, set piece hub area finale. And I thought that the open hub design was just phenomenal, man. Especially the second area.

[00:42:18] It managed to strike the really difficult balance between a really organic feeling location. Like, this location feels like it was real and actually designed by human beings who were at a dig site. But at the same time, it has those level design elements that are very much, you know, from video games. It felt very gamey as well as you were sort of navigating all the smaller, narrow spaces within these open hubs.

[00:42:47] And so, I just think that, like, combination of level design and hub design was superb, man. Really loved it. And it was really, in my opinion, the best in the second area. I agree. Let's move on to impact on the industry. Indiana Jones and the Great Circle did pretty well from what I gathered. That's not a very evidence-based response as I usually like to be.

[00:43:16] Let me just actually, now that I say that, do a quick Google search. So, this thing, so Indiana Jones and the Great Circle launched, what was it, December 8th on Xbox Series and PC. Yeah. Let's see.

[00:43:40] Indiana Jones and the Great Circle is the only December release to chart in the top selling games at number 14. Oh. Behind a whole bunch of old games. I'm a little surprised. Astro Bot. Let's see.

[00:44:07] It was ranked number 14 in December behind Marvel Spider-Man 2, Elden Ring, Dragon Ball Sparking Zero, NBA 2K25, Minecraft, Astro Bot, Hogwarts Legacy, Sonic Shadows Generation, Super Mario Party Jamboree, EA Sports FC25, EA Sports College Football, and number three, number two, Madden NFL 25, and then Call of Duty, number one.

[00:44:37] Interesting. So, I don't know. I loved it. I'm surprised it's that low. I think it did well enough. It's also coming to PlayStation in a couple months. I think it'll have legs because of the DLC that's going to come. You know, Game Pass doesn't really release the numbers, so we don't really know how it did there. I mean, yeah, that's kind of a shock to me. It is a little telling that they didn't release numbers.

[00:45:06] Typically, they'll say like a million players downloaded across all platforms or whatever. I have a hard time believing, though, that this is a miss for Xbox when all the folks that I saw working at Xbox on social media were just constantly posting and reposting the praise for the game. So, obviously, critically, it did incredibly well. I don't know what the Metacritic is right now, but I mean, let's see.

[00:45:35] I think it was a critical win. I think it was a great from an I think it was a critical win. And then this is obviously from the from the company that from Machine Games, which makes the Wolfenstein games. Yeah. And so I think it's a it's a really fascinating evolution of their style of development to create something that it was like so unique to this challenge of making an Indiana Jones

[00:46:05] video game. Right. Yeah. And not just making Wolfenstein with an Indiana Jones skin, which is, I think, kind of what people expected. And the fact that they went so hard in this direction that was like really pretty unique and like they they really kind of did it is really fascinating. Does it appeal to the masses? I don't absolutely doesn't. Right.

[00:46:31] Like, I think Indiana Jones is pretty not very popular amongst people under 30, to be honest. The pain, dude. I know you're right, but it still hurts to hear. Yeah. Indiana Jones is for old geezers like you and I. Yeah. Pushing 40. So and not nearly as accomplished as Indy was at that age.

[00:46:56] But this is once again a highlight of the type of game that can be made with Game Pass. What did this game retail for? Was this a $70 game? I believe it was. Yeah. It's interesting because at this developer direct, we saw some more lower priced games. Machine games. Sorry. No. Sorry.

[00:47:25] Compulsion games. South of Midnight is a $40 retail. Oh, nice. And Claire Obscura Expedition 33 is a $50 retail. And so we're seeing these like interesting. We had this discussion on pricing models on the Discord. Indiana Jones obviously doesn't fit that mold. I think it is a premium like premier sort of AAA thing.

[00:47:53] I absolutely think it deserves that for the production and like the effort and energy that went into it and like the IP and the licensing and like all that. But yeah. I don't think it's going to be some Game Pass financial thing. But I think because of Game Pass, I don't think it had to be. And I think it'll do well enough. And it's attractive from that standpoint. And so I don't know. Once again, I realize people don't like Game Pass.

[00:48:18] A lot of people don't like Game Pass or don't believe in it because it's a bit monopolistic, which the problem is, is I think if it's not Microsoft who's doing it and they're doing it in this manner, it's going to be somebody else. And they're probably not going to do it in this manner. And so I'm glad that Microsoft is doing it because somebody else would probably do it and do it way worse. And so that's a crappy argument, I realize. But that's a reflection. That's the real world, right? Like that's the real world that we live in.

[00:48:47] There's not going to be suddenly be some divestiture of all these game companies and have crazy competition. It's just going to continue to get worse. So glad that Phil Spencer remains in charge and we have this environment. And I hope that this model continues to be successful. And this year will be a big, big indication if it is so.

[00:49:08] Like if we get to the end of this year and Game Pass is phenomenally successful because this is the year where the dominoes are finally falling. We're seeing it, right? Yeah. And we're going to have a year where we're going to have six games like in Indiana Jones. If Game Pass does phenomenally well, then we get to continue to see games like this. If it doesn't, then we devolve more into that sort of scary gaming future that you and I often talk about where there's like three mega games.

[00:49:38] Right. And they're all battle royales. My nightmare. Cameron, with a bucket of cold water of reality for us on the impact on the industry. Yeah. But I mean, the reality is, is that we're not seeing a bunch of numbers about this game, which is typically a red flag. Um, now my assumption is that, Hey, there's not going to be layoffs. You know, there's not going to be like huge repercussions at machine games. I don't think so.

[00:50:07] I think that what we can see, or at least infer from Indiana Jones and the Great Circle. Indiana Jones and the Great Circle kind of reminds me to what I sort of consider this golden age of Microsoft studio acquisitions. Like with Obsidian, Bethesda and Arcane, where to me that was like Game Pass was still young. There was still a lot of hope and excitement that Game Pass was going to be this huge thing for, uh, for Microsoft.

[00:50:34] That it would be this big win, you know, just for indie games. Like all these things. People, I feel like on the whole were much more jazzed about it than they weren't. And I feel like we see that in Indiana Jones, like it's been insinuated on social media between people at, at machine games and Arcane. Um, that, you know, you had devs from Dishonored who were able to give input to kind of what the core design would be for Indiana Jones, which is why you're feeling some of that in there.

[00:51:01] And so I do feel like what we're seeing come to fruition is like possibly like this good synergy between these studios that have been Xbox first party studios for several years now. And I think that overall, that's a really great thing. Um, but I have a question for you about this when it comes to Game Pass.

[00:51:19] Like let's assume because I think this is likely that Indiana Jones and the great circle, um, was not a financial loss, but it wasn't super profitable for machine games or Xbox, right? Like it made the money back that was spent on it. So let's start with that baseline assumption. Do you think that Indiana Jones is released coupled with the big releases?

[00:51:47] Xbox has planned for Game Pass in the first few months of 2025. Like, do you think Indiana Jones is a factor for people who are going to come back to or sign on to Game Pass for the first time? So like a simpler way, like for the first time in 2025. So simpler way, this is kind of the scenario I'm imagining in my mind. Sorry, this is a long drawn out question. But like with Avowed right around the corner or like south of midnight, are people going to be like, you know what?

[00:52:17] Everybody said good things about the Indiana Jones game. Maybe I'll get Game Pass now because I'll be able to play Avowed and Indiana Jones. Like, do you think we're going to see an uptick in subscribers to Game Pass? Because Indiana Jones was such a critical success right now when it came out. Yeah, the nice thing about Game Pass is you can always get it and the game is always going to be there. Right?

[00:52:46] So if, so if, that's why Microsoft likes this business model. Because, because they can get you anywhere. And then they have all these different titles that they can use as an entry point to the service. And the reason, and they can make so many different titles that are going to appeal to so many different people. So if you decide, oh, here's this game I really want to play. Well, it's on Game Pass.

[00:53:16] I might as well just get Game Pass. And then you get Game Pass. And then what their hope is, it's like, oh my gosh, there's all this other stuff on Game Pass. Well, I also need to play that. Well, I need to play that. Oh, I'm going to play that. And then I'll just cancel in a month. Well, it's like, oh shoot. Well, they got, Avowed comes out next month. And now their strategy is finally paying off. Because now they're going to be able to say, oh, Avowed's coming next month. Oh yeah, that new South of Midnight game's coming in April 8th. Oh yeah. And then on the 24th, we're getting that crazy RPG.

[00:53:45] Oh yeah. And then on May, we're going to get a new Doom game. I mean, I can't cancel now. And then once you do all the math on that, it's like you're talking $40 retail, $50 retail, $70 retail, $70 retail. You've just, you know, you've saved a huge amount of money for a continuous stream of like really cool. So it's absolutely an incredible value for people who really like video games.

[00:54:14] And so the question, so the way that you have to think about games like Indiana Jones is not on their own. And this is why it's a great model. I think we'll see if it is in the future. The way that you have to think about the model is you can't really think about Indiana Jones on its own. You have to think about Indiana Jones along with all the other games that are on Game Pass. Because they're all ships.

[00:54:45] The waves, you know, raise all the boats, right? So if Game Pass has one monstrous hit that happens to get you to play at least one or two other games on the service, then that's a win for Microsoft. I guarantee you their analytics are looking at what games get people to buy a Game Pass. And then what games get people to buy Game Pass and then keep it.

[00:55:12] Or what games have the most, there's a term for it. And I can't remember the analytics term for it. But it's what games get you to come in. And then how many games after that game do you play on the service? So there's going to be like that type of thing, right? So it's like, oh, somebody came in to play Indiana Jones and they ended up playing six more games. That's an incredible number that they're never going to tell you. Yeah, they'll never tell you that. Right.

[00:55:41] And so from that sense, if one game only does 300,000 units, but on Game Pass, let's say 400,000 people come play it on Game Pass. But 200,000 of those people are new subscribers.

[00:56:00] And 75,000 of those new subscribers become year-long subscribers with a lifetime value of X amount of dollars for Microsoft. That's the way that they look at those numbers. That is such a crazy, I don't know, for me as like a layperson when it comes to this stuff, it feels like a really convoluted way to think about dollars and cents.

[00:56:29] Because it's not just how many units sold, what was the profit margins, did we reach our goals, right? Yeah. It's a giant pool now with the Microsoft model. And it's an even bigger pool now too because now they have boosted by. So now with PlayStation, Indiana Jones goes to PlayStation. If PlayStation does really well, again, all the boats get raised up.

[00:56:54] So if PlayStation does really well for Indiana Jones, that offsets any downside that they maybe had on Xbox because that will lift and then that just makes it better for everyone. Right? It's a giant pool. It's like you're pooling your resources. It's like communal capitalism for video games. Going back to our baseline assumption. Socialism, I guess. Microsoft is a socialist company. Whoa! And they just lost the anti-woke crowd.

[00:57:21] So going back to this baseline assumption that Indiana Jones and the Great Circle broke even, right? With the Game Pass. Probably. What? Maybe it lost money. Maybe it lost. Maybe it lost money because of the Disney license. Maybe, right? Right. And if we go back to the assumption, it makes so much sense for this game to release day one on Steam, right? And for this game to release six months later on PS5, right?

[00:57:49] Because you are essentially guaranteeing a second wind, a longer tail of sails by having that staggered release. Which honestly, this isn't like a new thing, right? We get this. People have been doing this with PC versus console releases forever, right? But it just seems like a little, like just kind of thinking through this. And obviously, we're not experts and we don't have all the numbers and data disposable.

[00:58:15] But just kind of thinking through this, it just makes so much more sense then for Xbox to put their games on other platforms, right? Because it seems to me to be a safer way to ensure that all of your games are profitable rather than risking some sort of loss. Because let's make the assumption that Indiana Jones and the Great Circle is at a loss right now, right? Where are they getting their extra influx?

[00:58:42] You go to traditional models of, you know, the DLC that's coming. You help more people will buy when there's sort of a bundle deal later down the line. But I don't know. It kind of feels like the pool of customers who are willing to buy a delayed game at a bundled price isn't as... I don't know. It feels a little riskier of a number than to release your game on a whole other console. Does that make sense? Maybe I'm just inferring here.

[00:59:11] Maybe this is what Microsoft wants us to think. But does that kind of make sense to me? It just feels like it's a safer way to make sure your games are making money. Yeah, it's just purely about getting in as many platforms as possible, right? I think that's all it is. They've realized that it doesn't make sense for them to compete in a console war and to steal market share when they can just publish it on the other platform and just pay the fee to PlayStation. PlayStation just makes some more money.

[00:59:41] I mean... Who cares unless you're a brand identity freak? Yeah. And it's like your identity is tied to your Xbox where it's like, okay, then you're going to be disappointed that you don't have an identity anymore. But I don't think... I think you still do because you're still going to have Microsoft publish games. It's like, okay, great. So you can play them on PS5. I play all my Xbox games on PC now anyways. So I don't even... Yeah. I don't know. It just seems like in this current...

[01:00:11] And Game Pass is not on PS5. Watch out, Sony. It'd be awesome if it was. Microsoft would love that. Switch 2. They absolutely... If PlayStation was like, you can put Game Pass on PS5, they would do it yesterday. I totally get that because kind of over... And they would even pay the fee.

[01:00:41] They would pay the fee to people who sign up for Game Pass on PlayStation. They would pay the 30% to PlayStation off the top of Game Pass. Do you think they would? Just to... They would do it. They absolutely would. That's wild. Yeah. I don't know. It just seems to me... It seems really risk adverse after thinking about this in the context of... Indiana Jones, right? Just have your games make more money.

[01:01:08] It doesn't really matter who's buying it as long as more people are buying it. This is very capitalist, you know, corporate way of thinking. But this is obviously how these big game companies think. They think in dollars and cents, right? They don't want to be posting losses and canceling projects left and right. And kind of to be frank, listen, I love Sony. I just want to clarify this for the console warriors who have somehow managed to still listen to this part after camera just called you out for not having a real life.

[01:01:38] Mike, of course, I want all these video game companies to win. I'm super excited for Ghost of Yotai, which will be, you know, PlayStation exclusive, right? But if you're a mega corporation and your two choices are release your published game on the opponent's console or cancel a bunch of games that have been in four, five, six years of development. Like, what do you pick? Like, you want to...

[01:02:06] It's only a matter of time until PlayStation is releasing their games on Xboxes and vice versa. And we're already seeing it now with, like, day and date on PC. Marathon is going to be the... Not the first, but it's a major PlayStation Studios release that's going to be on all platforms at launch. The domino has fallen or will fall. Which will be the first one, but the first of many in my opinion.

[01:02:36] So here it comes, man. Console warriors, you're getting washed out to sea. See ya. The other nice thing about Game Pass is from a shareholder perspective, you can take any game that didn't do that well and you can kind of just hide it under the Game Pass line item as a loss. But it'll get absorbed by the profits of other stuff.

[01:03:06] So it's just a giant line item now, right? You just shovel all the games under there. Well, folks, if you're shaking your fist at us because it sounds like we're corporate shills, know that we're not making any money from Xbox. But also know that... You just have to accept reality, guys. I'm sorry. Just this is the reality of the situation. We don't live in a fantasy world where the shareholders are benevolent and care about you as a consumer of gaming art and walking simulators.

[01:03:35] Hey, was that a personal dig? No, we already get those from indie. We already get those from indie. Indie developers, totally different conversation. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. If you're mad at the conversation that's happening right now, you're not playing enough indie games and I will personally come to your house and chastise you for that. But I like big budget to mid-budget third-person action games with cinematics and crap, right?

[01:04:04] So I don't want this to go away and all become Fortnite or some version thereof. Or a game inside of Fortnite. Oh, man. Or real blocks. Cameron, you just got a wall lined with buckets of cold water of reality tonight. I love it, man. I have been thoroughly cleansed. Listen, I've had the flu for a few days. I'm just barely recovering today.

[01:04:32] Dragged myself over here to do this podcast and give everyone a big dose of reality. There you have it, folks. Ladies and gentlemen, that's been our episode on Indiana Jones and the Great Circle. If you like the show, please leave us a review on your podcast platform of choice. Help people find this show in the new year 2025. Make us the biggest video game podcast of all time.

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