Steve, I'm Sorry | The Big Deal

[00:00:00] Alright Steve, let me ask you something before we get started here. So, are you the type of person who thinks cilantro tastes like soap? Because I just don't believe those people, I just think they have bad taste buds all around. So do you like cilantro or not? Steve? Kevin, where's Steve? I think he's dead.

[00:00:26] Ahhhhhhh! Welcome to...

[00:00:54] Hello, party people. Hello, south of midnight people. Kevin. Not Steve. Not Steve, he ain't here. Get the fuck out of here, Steve. He's not, okay, he's not dead, sorry, sorry to ruin the bit. He's still alive, god, fine. But we told him to pack his bags in GTFO. GTFO this week. Just for tonight.

[00:01:20] Yeah, we don't need you here to talk about... Actually, we do. I like when all three of us talk about a game like Avowed or something. I think you were ill or something when we had to talk about Tears of the Kingdom, I remember. Yes, yep, I was absent. Yeah, but we still talked about that anyway, but we don't do that very often. Oh, I think we did Splatoon 3, that was fun. You remember that? I think it was all three of us. Oh, yeah, I think so. I don't know, we've done quite a few. Yeah.

[00:01:49] The three of us, I think. All right. Well, today we are going to do, as I said, South of Midnight. All right, Kevin. So, this show, Fine Time, has been hot on South of Midnight ever since it was revealed at... Was it an Xbox showcase? Was it part of Summer Games Fest?

[00:02:19] I think 2023, right? And we all looked at that. They showed that initial teaser with that stop motion type animation and the bayou and the swamp song and the guy playing the guitar, which, I mean, I hope this isn't a spoiler. That is not actually in the game. That was just a teaser. Yeah, like none of that was in the game, which is fine. But, yeah, do you remember how... Do you remember what we said when we talked about it? How you felt?

[00:02:49] Yeah, you know, and actually, to be honest, I remember talking about it. And I think I thought that you and Steve were a little bit more interested than I. Just because I thought it looked really cool. But I was a little bit hesitant because I had absolutely no idea what this game is. It's just I like the art style. I like the animation. But there was really no indication in that trailer at that time what we were going to get out of this. Yeah, there was no gameplay whatsoever.

[00:03:15] But then I would say, what, about a year, nine months ago, we finally saw some gameplay. And it's like, oh, is it just Uncharted? Or, you know, like, is it just AAA action game? Which made me kind of, you know, because look, as you know, that's not my favorite thing in the world. But I was like, okay, the style is here. The dialogue is on point. These characters sound cool. I'm going to give this a shot still.

[00:03:43] And that was my expectations going in. Basically, I was expecting a very average AAA-ass action game with really charming visuals and characters and stuff to put it over the top for me. And hopefully a bit of spectacle, too, which I did get. I wanted a little more, but we'll get to that. But yeah, I was expecting something cool, but nothing mind-blowing, which, Kevin, it's exactly what this game is.

[00:04:07] Yeah, I didn't really have much expectations gameplay-wise. But I knew that I like the art style. And I like that, like, Deep South motif that they've got going on. I did think, especially just based on that original trailer, I wasn't expecting this to be as character and story focused. I thought this was going to be very abstract, just especially with, like, the giant skeleton guy and playing the guitar.

[00:04:33] I thought this was going to be a little bit more kind of random, acid-trippy, you know, just things happening. I didn't know it was going to have as much focus necessarily as it does. That's, yeah, I think you nailed it. That's exactly what I wanted. I wanted something really weird. And this game is not weird at all. It is very normie, you know? Well, I think that might be an overstatement. But in gameplay, in terms of gameplay, it is, I would say.

[00:05:02] You know, it's very, very conventional. Which, again, this is not typically the kind of game I like. But yeah, I just was not here for the gameplay. I was basically here for everything else, especially the music, aesthetic. Every character was kind of a knockout, honestly. Even if they were, like, a bit underdeveloped. Like, okay, remember at the very beginning of the game, there's a storm coming. I guess we should probably set up the game.

[00:05:32] There's a storm coming. The main character and her mom have a little bit of an argument. Storm comes, washes her house away with her mom in it. Game ensues from there, basically. It's a setup. Before that happens, you're going to go check on the neighbors. Remember, she goes and checks on that big white dude right next door. You see him, like, twice in the game, and that's it. Like, you go and talk to him. You make a point of going and talk to him. But he's not really part of the game at all. It's just the drunk hillbilly that pops in and out. Yeah.

[00:06:02] This is, like, I think he's there, like, one other time. It's like, okay, I guess, I don't know. You kind of subbed this character that's not really a part of it. But, okay, sure. You know, which is fine. It's just a little bit all over the place with that kind of stuff. So, yeah, I wanted something more avant-garde, maybe. Not like Killer7, maybe. But, you know, something a little more weird. But that's fine. As it stands, what would you give this game overall? I would give it, like, a B. I would give it a B. Oh.

[00:06:32] I would give it a B. I... It's a really hard one to rate. Overall, maybe a B-, maybe a C+. Hmm. Okay. But it's got... It's got... I'll just hop into, I guess, my overall thoughts. Yeah. And I think this one's kind of interesting because, as you know, and I think it's often to your frustration, well, you know, when we're all talking about games, I'm sometimes the guy that says, when the story comes up, oh, I wasn't really paying attention. I didn't know what the fuck was going on. I wasn't here for the story.

[00:07:02] It was just kind of there. And that was the complete opposite. I was pretty hooked on the story. I was as engaged and paying attention. And that was really the only reason to stick around in this game. And I think that's okay. You know, obviously, the best thing would be to have a fusion of a great gameplay idea and, you know, along with a great story and setting.

[00:07:25] I think that this game had a solid enough vision of what the story it wanted to tell and what it wanted to do with the setting, with the characters, that there's still value there, even though the entire time I felt like they just kind of had that initial idea and kind of just shoehorned the game in around it. Is that fair to say? Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like where, you know, a band, like, they have a great hook, right?

[00:07:53] You hear the song, they have that chorus. And it's like, it's clear the rest of the song is like, okay, what do we do for the parts that we're not singing that part? And it's just there because it needs to have a structure because it's expected. Right. Do you have any verses, guys? Because we just got this killer chorus. Can someone come up with a bridge, please? Like, you know, so it's just anyone got a guitar solo. So, yeah, it feels like that kind of game. But it's like you said, that's okay. Okay.

[00:08:20] Typically, this would be a detriment when I say stuff like this about a video game. But I really do think South of Midnight succeeds in every single other aspect so well that it really just, okay, the gameplay is whatever. But everything else, yes. And I think it's worth pointing out, the gameplay is serviceable. This isn't a massive knock on the gameplay. It's not broken. It's not extremely boring. It definitely has its faults that we'll get into.

[00:08:48] But I think if any of those things would have happened, it would have been a deal breaker. But this is definitely playable. It's just not doing anything new. It's not doing anything exciting gameplay-wise. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, look, let's talk about the thing that brought us here is that art style, that animation. Let's talk about that first, because quite frankly, that's what we care about the most.

[00:09:14] I do think the cut scenes in the game, all of them look insane. They absolutely deliver on that promise, that initial teaser. Every single cut scene, like, you don't want to take your eyes off it. Not because they're doing, like, these crazy fantastical things, just because they look so fucking good. They look incredible. Every character is modeled. Like, their texture work is really perfect, too.

[00:09:41] And I would almost – and I know this sounds silly to say now, but I really didn't get this vibe from the initial teaser. It really does look like puppetry, doesn't it? Like, I know, I'm sure everyone's like, well, no shit, Andre. I'm like, yeah, but, like, I really didn't get that until I, like, played the game, where it really does – not that their hands and arms are doing these herky-jerky things. But in that stop-motion way. Yeah.

[00:10:06] And with the way, like – like I said, the textures look where it looks like some characters are damn near carved out of wood, almost. I mean, they're not, but they definitely don't look like skin textures sometimes, too. Mm-hmm. You know? So, yeah, they absolutely deliver on that. Yeah, and from a tech side and from an art direction side, like, there's a lot of creativity going on here. For sure.

[00:10:33] So, okay, when the gameplay was first shown to us, I remember a lot of people being like, I don't know if this stop-motion animation will work out well in gameplay. It's one thing for cutscenes to look like that. What if the game looks like that? They were thinking, like, the herky-jerkiness wouldn't really, like, pan out. The game's running 60 frames a second, but the characters aren't running – you know, that whole thing. And I get it.

[00:10:58] But now that we played the entire game, both of us beat the whole game, how did you feel about it? Yeah, you know, I was one of those people. And I think when we first talked about this, I asked that question. What is the difference between them purposefully doing this and the game just having a low frame rate? Luckily, that's not a problem. It translates well. It doesn't feel sluggish. And I don't even know how to articulate why.

[00:11:22] I still don't know how to say, you know, because when you do move in-game, you can see that, like – I don't know. How would you even – how do you describe how that actually looks during gameplay? Because I think the gameplay does look, from a stop-motion perspective, probably toned down from the cutscenes, but you can still see it. So why doesn't that translate into feeling just like there's a low frame rate? Because I don't even know how to articulate what the actual difference is.

[00:11:50] Well, the only example I have is games that you have not played, and they're fighting games. If you've looked at games where my arc system works, like Guilty Gear Xrd or Guilty Gear Strive or Dragon Ball Fighters, where – Dragon Ball Fighters is maybe a better example, where it's like – it looks like animation cells of the show. Like, they animate like that. But it's a fighting game. It's running at 60 frames a second.

[00:12:17] And, like, they're just very flat-shaded polygonal characters, but to make it look like cell animation. But they're obviously running at super low frame rates to look like that cell animation, but it doesn't feel herky-jerky when you play the fighting game. A game that – a genre that you absolutely don't want to feel that way. Right? It actually works out. So, South of Midnight isn't that strong of a, like, animation style during gameplay, and I actually wish it were stronger.

[00:12:46] I wanted it to be crazier. Like, I don't know – like, have you ever played, like, one of the Sony Spider-Man games where you put on the Spider-Verse outfit and you're running at, like, the 24 frames of animation, like the Spider-Verse movie or whatever, and it looks all herky-jerky and weird? I wanted it to look like that. You know? So, like – but it doesn't. Which is fine. Here's the thing, though. In the options, you can still turn this off.

[00:13:11] You can go in there and say, hey, I want the characters to, you know, run at 60 – all the frames, right? So, you can do that, but I don't know, man. I actually wanted the effect to be stronger during gameplay. Yeah, I don't know. It's hard for me to imagine what amping it up would have resulted in, but at no point did I want to turn that slider off. It still felt – the movement felt just as you would want it to feel. Absolutely.

[00:13:40] Anything else about graphics? Because I just think this game looks great in general. That opening sequence is crazy with the storm and everything and the blowing and the wind and shit. Like, wow. You know what? That was my favorite part of the whole game. Not that there aren't other really good parts, but when you start chasing the trailer – and that's when you first realize, like, the movement in this game does feel good. Just the running, the jumping.

[00:14:07] It just – it feels responsive and enjoyable just to interact in the world. And the tone of that section is very serious. And then all of a sudden, this, like, bawdy bombastic swing tune – and they play it, like, purposefully loud. It starts pumping. And that song really is, like, purposefully juxtaposed against the setting and the seriousness of, like, your mom possibly dying in this horrific storm. And that felt really exciting.

[00:14:37] And I think as soon as that happened, I was like, okay, I'm here for this game because I get what they're trying to do. I also like that they made it, like, she – I don't know. I mean, I'm sure they did this on purpose, but they made it, like, she's into running. Like, she's, like, track and field and stuff like that. So when she starts running, it's like, oh, that's kind of just what her hobby is. You know, so it's, like – it's weird. But I guess – it doesn't really, like, oh, she's a track star.

[00:15:06] She's running – it's not like they play it up like that. But it just kind of – it's a thematic thing that just works, you know, I think that's just kind of in the background. But, yeah, I like that running stuff. I just wish there was more spectacle. You know me. I love spectacle. I just wish there was – like, there was enough, right? I'm not saying this game is devoid of it. But my favorite part of the game was the alligator, the giant gator part. And that shit was crazy. The way that thing moved through the water, the way it – oh, my God.

[00:15:36] That was insane. I thought that was, like, the best looking and my favorite part of the game, too. I already talked about the textures, but I want to talk about the little bit more. The way they look on, like, the houses and, like, vehicles and stuff. It almost gives it this, like, twisted fairy tale look, which I guess that's what the game is, right? But it really sells it, you know? So it's not just the characters with the right texture work. It's the whole game.

[00:16:04] Also, the way that the cut animation is inadvertently helps this game be very, very performant. So you played on Xbox Series X. I played on my PC. My laptop 4070, NVIDIA 4070 on Ultra. I ran without a hitch. This game is super performant. Was it good on Series X, too? You know what? Gameplay-wise, it was great.

[00:16:32] I did have maybe probably five or six times, just during cut scenes, all of a sudden, where textures were, like, violently popping in. Did you have any of that going on? Especially if things were close up. If the camera was, like, low to the ground and you could see the ground close in front of you, all of a sudden, like, the dirt would, like, pop in and out with the texture. Unreal 4, baby. Yeah, I got that, too, on PC.

[00:16:58] Probably even more, because that's more of a thing, because, you know, on PC, you've got to compile the shaders, because, you know, that stuttering shit works. I didn't really have any traversal stutter or gameplay stutter that I noticed in that regard regarding shaders. But, yeah, I saw some texture pop in. That's unreal. We love and hate you, right? So I feel like that's a lot better on Unreal 5. That's why I said Unreal 4. I feel like that's what this game is using.

[00:17:27] I mean, even, to be fair, Rebirth is still on 4. And I didn't notice that it was definitely there in the first Final Fantasy VII remake. But Rebirth didn't really have any of that going on that I've seen. The foliage does pop in, though. The textures don't, but the foliage does kind of, like, boop. Oh, here's some more grass. But, yeah, I would imagine that's just a, you know, you can only shove so much stuff in even 16 gigs of RAM on PS5.

[00:17:57] So considering how big those worlds are. But, yeah, the cut animation really does help with performance. I ran it in 60 without a hitch. And, you know, it's like I said about those fighting games like Dragon Ball Fighters or Guilty Gear. Those, like, Guilty Gear Xrd was on, like, PS3. And, like, Dragon Ball Fighters is on Switch without a hitch. Switch without a hitch, right? So I really do think, like, that cut animation just makes it, like, hey, we could just put this on anything. I think that's why this game is so performant.

[00:18:41] I want to talk about some story elements. And we're not going to spoil, obviously, in this segment. But I'll just say this. Very early on in the game, you see the ghosts of a family. It's kind of what this game turns out to be. She can see ghosts of the past and she helps them heal in the present, you know? You see these ghosts of a family and someone helping them escape from somewhere. And it's very clear that the thing they're helping them escape is a slave plantation.

[00:19:10] Because this takes place in the South. And, look, if you're going to see ghosts, I think you're going to see those kind of ghosts sometimes, right? And that was very clear to me that's what was going on. But I'm also American. And, you know, look, you as a Canadian, I'm sure that was clear to you that's what was going on as well. But what if you're not from here? What if you're European or some shit? Like, would that translate? Is what – here's what I'm asking.

[00:19:36] Is what happened in the American South so well-known worldwide that, like, everyone would pick up on this? Not that they necessarily have to to, like, you know, get the game. You don't absolutely have to know that. But I guess I'm just wondering how this might be received in other countries where African American history is not their history. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, it definitely wasn't lost on me.

[00:20:02] My assumption is even if somebody didn't have the historical context, which I would assume the wide majority of people would, I think it was very apparent that there was still a strong element of racism going on there, even if you didn't really know, you know, why or based on the context of the Deep South.

[00:20:22] I found myself – I remember a conversation we had years ago on Fine Time, and I thought about that conversation a lot when I was playing this, when we talked about, you know, the benefits of having a game that's not just, like, the buff white alpha male. And I think this game is a perfect example why, because the story and characters are unique, but it's also told very well.

[00:20:46] So it's very easy to find something more interesting than watching Nathan Drake just run around and talking about fucking treasure hunting. And killing hundreds of people. I mean, Jesus Christ. I remember talking about Celeste a while ago, and I said that was a game where I felt like they were too, like, you know, obviously it's about mental health. And they kind of, like, ran that down your throat.

[00:21:09] And I felt like they did it in a way that kind of turned me off because it felt like they were just trying too hard to make a point. Whereas this, I think it's very on the nose, but it's done perfectly because it's done in an interesting way. They built that into the story. They're not just saying, like, hey, this is what this game is about. It's very apparent what it's about. But I think the frame they put around it is exactly what they should be doing.

[00:21:39] Yeah, I'm a fan of when anything does that, any media, video games, movies, etc. Because it's like sometimes you just don't need, like, to be told stuff like that. You can just let the game happen or let the movie happen, etc. And you feel how you feel about it. Like, I remember when Oppenheimer came out a couple years ago and a bunch of fucking idiots online were like, well, you know, they didn't say the bomb was bad or bombing Japan is bad or something.

[00:22:08] It's like, do you have to be told that? Does Oppenheimer literally have to look at the camera and be like, hey, by the way, this is all bad? Like, do you actually are you stupid? Do you literally have to be told that? Like, come on. You know, and also, if you watch the movie, like, he literally has a mental fucking breakdown because of what he did. But hey, I guess you didn't watch the movie, huh? You're just typing shit online anyway.

[00:22:34] Yeah, I do like that South of Midnight takes this approach because, like, you remember the part when she first gets to her dad's side of the family mansion? Her dad is white. So her side of the family is white, and she's going to visit her white grandmother who, man, white people are evil, man. I tell you what. Yeah, the white people in this game are the worst white people in video games possibly.

[00:23:00] Other than we talked about, like, the drunk biker guy at the start who, at face value, you would assume is the most racist, but he's the most likable white person in the game. Yeah. Oh, he's great, man. Like, they're neighbors. They're this grandmother. Ooh, baby. Anyway, she goes in that house at some point, and she's just looking around at the picture, and there's, like, a picture of a really well-dressed white man, older white man on the, like, an oil painting almost.

[00:23:28] And you can kind of click on it and look at it as you can when you're in the interior space. And you look at it, and she's like, ugh, grandpa. Don't think he would have liked me much. Oh, okay. You know? Like, I love stuff like that, though. It's not – the game is not about racism, but you definitely, like – you gotta – I mean, look. You're – it's about black people in the South. You gotta mention – it's part of life, right? It would be negligent not to mention it, Bioshock Infinite.

[00:23:59] So, it's – you know, I like the way South and Midnight handled things in that regard. And it's really interesting that they both are obviously, you know, critical just by the way they're telling the story of the history of the South. But they also, like, romanticize the culture of the South at the same time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's a celebration. And you know what? That's actually perfect, because that leads into what I want to say next about the tone of this game.

[00:24:28] It does feel celebratory of culture and, like, a region of the country that, you know, sometimes people shit on. Sometimes a good reason. Sometimes a bad reason, right? But, like, the tone of this game can be pretty dark. It deals with really heavy topics. There's lots of stuff about death and child abuse and murder, and you see it. They don't just talk about it. You see it. Mm-hmm.

[00:24:55] So – and it tells a lot of sad stories as a result. And – but here's the thing. The game does not feel miserable or depressing or anything like that. It feels hopeful and, like, uplifting because, like I said, you're helping people with their trauma. You're helping these ghosts move on, and that helps people in the present as well. It's not just a suppressing thing. It's about finding the joy in life no matter what.

[00:25:23] But I think a game like this in the wrong hands could be what I always like to call, like, recreational sadness or misery porn, right? Like, The Last of Us or shit like that that I don't like where it's just, like, miserable, dark, depressing, the end. And South of Midnight could have easily been that in the wrong hands, and it's not like that at all. And I love that. It's interesting because they walk that fine line very well because I completely agree. It doesn't feel miserable.

[00:25:53] It doesn't feel depressing. But some of the shit that is in there is 100% straight up morbid. And I thought that was really interesting how they convey that. I don't want to spoil it. It's not too far into the game. But the part about the tree. Oh, yeah. I was legitimately like, holy fucking Christ.

[00:26:15] The concept, given who these characters are, that's some of the, like, darkest shit that I've seen in, like, film or television in a way. So it's kind of, like, boundary pushing. But, again, at the same way, it's not just horrible and sad for the sake of being horrible and sad. And they kind of do it in, like, a tasteful way. Yeah. It's super cool the way this is handled. Because, like, look, you need to see those things so you can come out the other side, like, ah, you know?

[00:26:44] And you can't just dwell on those things. Like, oh, dark, depressing, depressing, roll credits. Which, again, I feel like The Last of Us or just, like, whatever. And I'm not saying, like, everything needs to be hopeful and uplifting. I do like things that are moody or even bleak. That's okay. But I think there's a lot of things that take it too far. And in a game like this, that's just not what I want at all. So, you know, a game that looks like this and plays like this, I don't want that kind of thing.

[00:27:13] So I'm glad they took that route. You want to talk about the music in this game? We did already a little bit. But Jesus Christ. Let me talk about the music first. And then you can tell me why I'm wrong. I know you're the music guy. You tell me what you think, and then I'll browbeat you into my correct opinion, which is how fine time works. That's okay. And because quite often, you know, you'll talk about the music and rant and rave about it.

[00:27:41] And I'll say, yeah, it was good. But to me, it just fit the game. It didn't stick out that much. And you cannot feel that way about this game because they fucking hit you over the head with the music in a good way. And so actually, I was talking earlier about, you know, the game being critical of the Deep South and still romanticizing it. And I think the music like really, really underscores that romanticizing part of it. Right. It's very, you know, it's this is the music of that place.

[00:28:12] And they play it purposefully loud. They play it prominently in certain sections of the game where they want it to be, you know, the character of that moment. And that was really cool. So I will say 90% of the music loved it. They did it really well. However, during the bosses, they play themes where all of a sudden they have lyrics. I don't hate this idea in practice.

[00:28:40] I think it's an interesting idea in practice. It just felt really flat to me. Specifically, like just listening to the lyrics, it felt like they were shoehorning those lyrics in and the cadence and like the rhyming.

[00:28:57] And none of it seemed to really like it's they very much prioritized what they wanted to say without as much thought as I feel like should have been put in into like complimenting the song that the lyrics are being sung over. And I don't know, like I think I could have I could have wrote these lyrics as good as whoever wrote them. You know, they just they knew what they wanted to say and they just put in there and they're like, OK, sing it over this song. And that's how it felt to me.

[00:29:27] Again, I feel if it would have been done as good as I felt like it deserved to be done, I would have liked the idea. But I think that part was executed very poorly. Oh, OK. Well, you're incorrect per usual, as I expected. You are not correct. My opinion is correct. I'm going to agree with you on the general BGM, the moment to moment stuff. Really great stuff. It sounds exactly how you'd expect it to sound. It's Southern, it's Bayou, it's country, it's folksy, it's perfect.

[00:29:57] OK, I will heavily disagree with you about the songs with lyrics, though. I thought that stuff was really, really cool. I guess I just really enjoy that over the top type of shit in music in general. I was going to say in media, but I just think I would listen to this music by itself, those songs. I would. And I feel like I would get something out of them.

[00:30:25] I don't need the visual or the controller in the hand gameplay of doing it for me to get stuff out of it. I just think, I don't know. I thought it was really powerful and really fun. And it's almost like a musical. Maybe that's the best way I could say it. It's like a musical where it's like the music is the point, but it's not the characters singing the songs like a musical. But it's like this very like almost like a stage play where there's like a live band. Right.

[00:30:55] And they're just kind of like the characters are doing stuff and someone's singing their actions. I just think that's like unique and fun. And the degree of difficulty on that is very high. I think I agree with you where you say they didn't pull it off. But I think they did pull it off. I do think most games that try to do this would not pull it off. I just think South of Midnight happens to. In fact, I'm trying to think of another game. I mean, I'm sure there's other examples where this happens. I don't know, man. It's not just the boss stuff.

[00:31:24] I just think it's also like there's I don't know, I would say halfway through the game. It's not a boss, but she's climbing up to this house and there's like the sort of acoustic number with this lady singing. I remember that part. Yeah, I think that's I think that shit's great. I almost kind of think of that as like the theme song of the game almost just kind of where it's like centered in the game. So I don't know. I will have to heavily disagree. I think they I think the lyrics. So songs of lyrics really nail it. All of them.

[00:31:53] Yeah, that that is. And I don't think I want to clarify. I don't think it's the performance. I don't think that the people singing these were doing a poor job where their voice didn't match or whatever. I literally do think it is the lyrics. I think the lyrics were very mismatched with the music. I think you should go back and listen to a couple of those songs in isolation from the game and like just listen to them on their own, like from a critical music perspective. Because I just I'm I'm surprised you don't agree with me, to be honest.

[00:32:21] I thought when I said this, you were going to you were going to feel the same. I mean, I it's like I said, I do think most of the time I would feel that way. But this is just a case where I don't. I don't know. This just worked for me. It really did. I do really do think like seven out of the 10 games that try to do this. I'd be like, this sucks. And you're not you're not the only one. This is a criticism I've heard from other people. So don't think you're alone on this one.

[00:32:48] I have heard this in in other channels. So, you know, it's you're not you're not alone here. With that said, though, I think this might be a good point to have get out any other criticisms we might have about the game since we're criticizing stuff now, even though the thing you criticize is actually good.

[00:33:17] Because my criticizing section. I know. Well, this is this is a real criticism because I labeled it criticism in the notes. There's no music here. This is where the criticisms that count start. I think that like the weirdest thing to me about the game flow of South of Midnight is that they kind of just dole out the magic powers and movement options without a whole lot of fanfare. Like you see the ghost or something doing it, and then all of a sudden you can do it, too.

[00:33:48] It's like, oh, they just pulled themselves up in this thing. Let me do that by pressing the left trigger and zip lining up there or like, oh, they just double jump to get up on this ledge. I guess I can do that, too. I what it just kind of happens. I'm not saying this had to be like an action adventure game where it's like you got the double jump icon or you got the whatever. But it's like, I don't know. It just they just sort of come along. They definitely do. It definitely does do that.

[00:34:18] And I didn't I didn't think about that too much. I think just because that was an extension of just this needing to like give you a game to play to like tell you this story. So it's it's. Underwhelming along with most of the gameplay, I guess, and doesn't stick out for that reason.

[00:34:40] But that being said, I guess while we're talking about those movements, I do think, you know, especially that like double jump and then glide like felt very smooth. So all of those were implemented well. But yeah, the way they give them to you, it's just like, well, now we have designed the level. So you need to jump twice to get up here. So we'll tell you that you can now double jump. Yeah, it's it just feels OK.

[00:35:06] Again, I know this is unfair, but I'm going to compare this a little bit to split fiction, because in that game, you can also double jump and dash and air dash. Right. So like, but you have all those things from the beginning and I get it. It's a completely different game, but you can kind of just do them. I wish that when she just got her like powers or whatever, she could just do all that stuff. I wish they had framed it that way instead of being like, oh, I guess I can just do this thing.

[00:35:35] I haven't been doing the whole game so far. You know, I just wish she could have just done them and that's it. And they probably would have thought that would have been overwhelming. The like, oh, you can just do all these things now. But it's like, I don't think it would have. They're just very normal things to do in an action game. So, well, I think we'll get in a few minutes. We'll get there. I think the game and not wanting to overwhelm you with absolutely anything is a is a whole problem. unto itself. Oh, man. It's overbearing all the modern game stuff. Triple A stuff.

[00:36:05] I always bitch about everything's here. They don't have yellow paint. It's blue paint on everything. You can climb on all these blue paint things and they all they're all. They all look like a slat of wood or metal or whatever things sticking out of the side of the mountain that you can climb on. Very, very convenient, guys. And then like they have pieces of heart. They're not pieces of heart, but they're like, you know, here are three things you can collect to up your health. They have skill trees.

[00:36:34] I just wish a lot of this stuff wasn't here. Again, I just wish you just had a set of powers. I don't need a skill tree in this game. I you could have just let me do stuff. I don't know. Am I wrong on this? I think for the most part, you are right when you talk about the blue paint. And this is something I know that often bothers you in games. It doesn't bother me as much, but I get to the complaint and why it takes you out of the immersion. I do think in this case it was necessary.

[00:37:03] And I remember thinking that multiple times when playing this because there's just so much fucking visual shit going on here. I think at times it just would have been really difficult to figure out where you need to even be going without that indicator. Now that's that's not that's not saying here is why blue paint is good. And maybe that's a fault of the design of the game.

[00:37:30] But I think that's it's less like level design and more just there's so much visual stimulation going on that in this case, I appreciated having that blue paint multiple times. I mean, OK, I get you. However, they also give you the thing where you can click the right stick and give you a swoosh where it's like you can you need to go this way. However, that doesn't tell you what you can climb on. Right.

[00:37:59] So it's different at the same time. The swoosh is pretty fucking direct here. Yeah, there is that. So but yeah, I I guess I'm just I've always been bothered. I know it's a talking point of recent time to complain about yellow paint. I felt that fucking way for 20 years. I've always hated that shit. So I'm I'm a longtime hater of that type of visual design in video games. But, you know, whatever.

[00:38:25] Structurally, though, I feel like South of Midnight feels a bit dated. Now, whether it's dated to some people or refreshing to some people might, you know, I either beholder. But this legit feels like a structure of like a PS3 or 360 game. This feels like a game that came out in like 2009 to me. Like if if if enslaved journey to the West and South of Midnight came out around like the same time, I wouldn't have been surprised.

[00:38:54] If someone were to OK, if I didn't know any better and someone would tell me South of Midnight is a remaster of a game that was on Xbox 360. I definitely wouldn't be shocked. Would you? I mean, it does have that feel. Yeah, I do. I completely get what you're saying.

[00:39:09] I don't know if if I thought of it as much as a like specifically dated feeling thing as much as I thought this is an action adventure game where they just didn't put any of the effort they put into the game into like doing anything new, anything unique. I don't know if it's necessarily dated. I so to backtrack a little bit, I did a few years ago. I put maybe six or seven hours into Kena Bridges Spirits. Did you ever try playing that? Yeah, I played it about the same amount of time.

[00:39:39] Yeah, I really, really did not like that game. And that game was received very well. That's a whole conversation unto itself. But that game, I felt like their mission statement was let's try to do level design from the early 2000s. I didn't feel that as much here as it was just very, very basic. Like it wasn't, you know, almost feeling like a specific callback.

[00:40:02] And it felt kind of like they are, they were transparent and upfront with the fact that what you see is what you get. And it is just here to complement the story and the music and the art style. And again, like I said, I think that's okay. I don't know if I'm as critical of it. It's just definitely nothing to write home about. Um, okay. I mean, like, I don't know if what I'm saying about it feeling dated is a criticism.

[00:40:30] That's why I wanted to ask you about it, because it's like sometimes that could be a good thing. What was that game that came out like a few years ago? Evil West or something like that. It was like a third person action game where it's like this feels hella 360 or something where it's like this is dated in a way that I think is kind of charming. And I think South at Midnight, it's not charming or a detriment. I think it just is what it is. It's just the way the game feels.

[00:40:57] Except that, you know, if this came out on the Xbox 360, can you imagine what this bullshit would look like? This would not look like this, obviously, but, you know. No, it definitely wouldn't. They probably would not need the blue paint if this came out on Xbox 360. They probably wouldn't even let Hazel, our main character, be on the cover because it's a girl. We can't have that. Where's our Macho Man games? I did think it was funny, too.

[00:41:25] Like there were, you know, design wise, there's some like awkward invisible walls sometimes here. You know, that doesn't feel like that's something we see that often anymore. No. Vegetation was kind of weird because sometimes you will run into, you know, a large plant or flower and it will sway as you run into it. And then other times you will run into things and they will be like 100% static as if you didn't interact with them at all.

[00:41:52] And again, for what the game is, it's not a big deal, but it's especially, you know, when the whole like mission statement of the game is to like look really fucking cool. It's noticeable. It reminds you that you're playing a game. Okay. Totally random question off topic, but I want to ask before I forget, who's your favorite character? Because mine was definitely the catfish. I did really like the catfish. You know what? I don't remember his name.

[00:42:18] The guy near the end that's in the like, like the, like the play studio. Oh, he's got the cabaret. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Especially just like the visual design of that guy and the yellow eyes. I actually wonder because that guy is very fucking tall. If, if somehow that character might have been related to the skeleton that was playing in that trailer, we've seen a long time ago.

[00:42:44] Now they definitely don't look the same, but they kind of like had the same vibe. So I don't know. Maybe, maybe that was an iteration at some point or I don't know, but I really liked, I liked that guy a lot. And he's like, he's like definitely a little bit evil or half evil. He's very fucking suave. Yeah, no, you're, you're right. That's a good, that's a good callback by you. Yeah. I think that could be the case.

[00:43:09] We'll have to go back and watch that initial trailer and see if we can pick out anything. Cause like I said, I, I, nothing I can think of is, is in there. The only thing I remember from that trailer is Hazel holding up the picture for my, Hey, have you seen my mom? She's holding up to like the rabbit or the turtle or something like that. And that's obviously not in the game. So yeah, I do wonder if that was like fucking massive, like way, way bigger than that guy. And definitely had like bones showing in his face, but I don't know. I just seem like maybe there's a relation there. I don't know.

[00:43:38] There might be, we, we should go back and see that, especially since he's singing a song, you know what I mean? And that guy's part was all musically inclined. Best music of the game there, by the way, all the, all the new Orleans sounding jazz and shit. I love that shit. It's cool. Okay. Let's talk about something we can agree on. Okay. That is that we can actually criticize about this game. And it is the combat. Now this isn't horrific combat.

[00:44:07] I want to say that right up front. This isn't Alan Wake two or something like that, that I thought was absolutely fucking atrocious combat. Okay. Okay. This combat is not good. I just think it's boring. I want you to speak about it first though. I think you'll be more articulate about this than me. Yeah, definitely. Hands down the worst part of the game. Um, and, and again, okay. I keep saying, you know, they're very like upfront and apparent.

[00:44:34] Like it felt like they are, they are very upfront as in here. Now you are in the part of the game where you do the fighting again and again and again and again, the arenas are always very close to the same size. There are, what is there? Maybe like five different types of enemies outside of bosses that you fight in these, maybe six. It's a very limited pool of enemies you fight. And they all look relatively the same too. Yeah, it feels very fucking sterile.

[00:45:03] The combat is incredibly easy. Um, like once you just figure out each of these enemies, when they're going to attack, how you're supposed to approach them. Um, it feels like you're going through the motions and, and I don't know. So you probably do this where you go into these, these arenas and you spend maybe two to three minutes, depending on how many enemies they give you. Um, this happens maybe, would you say 40 to 50 times throughout a playthrough somewhere around there? Yeah.

[00:45:32] Um, you know, after the first 10 times, like, like it's, it's short and it's basic enough to not be entirely offensive, but you can tell that they were just like, we need to have combat because this is a video game. So what they did, this is what they did. Um, the camera during combat is fucking terrible. This was the most frustrated I got over and over and over because you want to lock on to these enemies.

[00:46:01] When you were playing this, there's, there's, there's maybe maximum like six or seven at a time and you want to focus on one. So you want to lock on, but then there's shit behind you and you got to pay attention to where attacks are coming from. And you cannot turn the camera left and right without turning the fucking enemy that you're locked onto. Um, oh my God, how this made it past, like how they didn't fix just that issue before this game released is beyond me.

[00:46:27] Um, I, I go ahead, keep, keep going. Um, and so the difficulty as well, and this isn't just specific to combat, but mostly with the combat, it feels like the developers were way too scared of making this game too hard. Um, they give you a difficulty slider right when you start. And I pretty much always play games on normal.

[00:46:50] Um, if I didn't know I had set this to normal, I hit 100% would have thought I was playing on easy mode. Um, any outside of combat bosses, you know, you're in a running section and you fall down, whatever. There is not even the fucking remotest penalty for failing at something. And I don't want to be sent back 10 fucking minutes because I didn't do something, but it, it just, it feels like there's nothing on the line.

[00:47:17] And it's, it's hard for me to like mentally engage with, with a game when I just know it, it doesn't matter at all. I can be in the middle of fighting this boss and fucking jump off the ledge and fall in a pit on purpose. And they're not like, you know, if they have four sections of health, you're still on like the same section you were, even if you do that over and over, it's just, man. Like I, I, I, I, especially because the gameplay is not outstanding here.

[00:47:44] I don't want this to be hard or even challenging necessarily, but I want it to feel like it has enough teeth that I'm playing a fucking video game. Yeah. Because like, I was go to the Kirby example, right? Like Kirby games are easy as hell, but they engage you in a way that, yeah, it's easy. Right. But the gameplay hop and bop and suck and blow, if you will, um, fucking, you know, it's, it's, it's engaging and it's fun and it's cute and it's whatever there.

[00:48:14] So I don't need Kirby games to be hard, but there is a Kirby game that is actually too easy to the point where it is disengaging. And that is Kirby 64 for me. I think that game is such a breeze where it's like, okay, you're not even remotely getting in my way. Nothing is going to touch me in this game at all. Versus like you've played Kirby in the forgotten land, right? Like, it's like, it's not hard, but it's like, it's, you know, it's something.

[00:48:42] Kirby 64 actually is too easy. That's the one time I'll actually give that criticism to Kirby. I don't think South of midnight is too easy. I did not feel that about this game. It is easy, but I did not feel like it was like, okay, hurry up. I was bored just because the combat is just not engaging and nothing to really do with difficulty. It was just like when you're walking around the world, any game world, and there's no sense of danger when they're in a game with enemies.

[00:49:11] I'm not talking about like animal crossing or something like that. Although that does have more danger. A bee, a bee could sting you. Right? Something could actually bite you out there. That's not going to happen in South of midnight, right? Like nothing. Because everything takes place in these little circular arenas and you see them coming. So, you know, you know, you can't even be running from something and it's like, oh, these guys are in my way. I got to kill them real quick.

[00:49:39] There's nothing dynamic like that at all. There's no enemies just in the world. I just think it's kind of boring with the combat overall. And some people might say, well, that's not the point of the game. Yeah, it's not the point of the game, but you sure do a lot of it. As much as we liked the story, I want to nitpick the story a little bit. Okay. Some of these characters, two of them in specific, we already talked about the grandma.

[00:50:05] And then when I talked about the tree, which I don't want to give away the details of, the guy who committed that one. Um, I do not think those characters got what was coming to them. I think the game was too forgiving to those characters, especially like the fucking tree guy. I didn't even really fully understand where they were coming at from that story.

[00:50:27] And I listened and paid attention to the whole thing, but all of the other characters, when they tell a story, they did something bad and you're supposed to have like a level of sympathy for them. But the one in the tree story, I don't really even know why you were supposed to have sympathy for the character that did that period. I think you should have went and fucking tortured that guy before that level was over. Actually, like that was fucked up. I don't. Yeah, it was fucked up.

[00:50:56] And I don't think you were supposed to. I just think you were trying to help his victim move on. I don't think it was really about the perpetrator. But the game also didn't condemn them either necessarily. No, not at all. Hazel said, yeah, Hazel said, oh man, this is fucked up, you know, as she was going through it. But that's about it. Yeah, I don't know. I was almost disappointed because the story is very like critical to certain about certain characters and rightfully so.

[00:51:23] But it kind of like it gives them a pass that I didn't feel like they deserve. Also the gram. I didn't I didn't like the way that story ended in that regard. Um, I, I did. I think I did. I, when it was happening, I was like, oh man, that's weird. But I, I think I liked it just because without spoiling, obviously Hazel didn't have to do that. She could have just taken care of business herself. Right.

[00:51:53] But I think it's even a worse fate for that character for to what happened to them. I think. So I think, I think I liked it overall. Maybe a worse fate, but I think she still got off easy. Too easy. Yeah, I could understand either way. Ooh, would have been nice to let you choose, huh? She's your own ending there. Oh, that would have been cool. Yeah. Yeah. I think that would, if there's any point for a choice in this game, that would, that probably would have been it.

[00:52:22] And the way it played out, I would have done that though. So, you know, and you would have done the opposite. So yeah. I would have got fucking tortured. White people are evil, everybody. This just, that's the, that's the, if you take away anything from this segment. Okay. I think I'm pretty much out of stuff to say. I do want to get to this one last point though, before, before we move on.

[00:52:47] South at midnight retails for $39.99 American dollars MSRP. Do you find this surprising? Because I do. And I would have had no problem paying the full 70 bucks for this game. This does not feel like a budget game or anything like it. And it's clear a lot of work and a lot of money went into this. So 40 feels like a pretty aggressive price for a game like this. Don't you think?

[00:53:15] Do you think maybe like Microsoft is so into game pass now, they don't really care what these games cost. Cause I feel like that's where they make their money now. And even if South at midnight does come to PS five and stuff later, people are just going to buy it. Just like people are going to buy Indiana Jones and Forza later this month. Right? So I feel like they're just going to get their money on other platforms. So what do you, what do you think about this? 40 bucks for South at midnight?

[00:53:40] I do think for, for, you know, for all of the criticisms of this game, I think, you know, selling it for $40 just like has a feeling that they are selling themselves short or Microsoft is selling them short. Um, I think the problem is that I don't see this game having a super wide appeal.

[00:53:58] Um, obviously game pass is going to be part of this discussion, but barring that I think Microsoft, Microsoft still probably has data backing up the idea that this will make more money at a lower price than a higher one. Um, you know, just to, just to try and like go wide with the people that are interested in it.

[00:54:17] Um, and it's, it's just, it's hard to position a game like this against, uh, you know, average triple a title for the general public and expect them to bite because it, it just feels niche. I think, does that make sense? Yeah. I don't think this is going to be something that's going to be like a huge seller or anything. It's going to have its audience and it's going to sell well.

[00:54:40] I mean, I hope it does anyway, and it's gotten a lot of notoriety from people like us, you know, people who play video games, but is this going to be like a big mainstream head? Probably not. But I think this has a lot more appeal than hi-fi rush or like hell blade too. Really? Yeah. I think this has more mainstream appeal than those in my opinion. Interesting. Maybe I, I, I don't think it does have more mainstream appeal than either of those. Really? Okay.

[00:55:08] I mean, look, it's not avowed, right? Like avowed has big appeal, right? Like I don't, I don't think, I don't know. I think this is less niche than those in my opinion, but who knows? We'll see how it, we'll see how it pans out regardless. Yeah. If, if what we said about this game sounds interesting to you, despite our criticisms of it, you are not there for the things that we talked about that are bad. You're here for these characters, the story, this music, and these visuals.

[00:55:35] If that's, if that sounds good to you, absolutely play South of Midnight. I played it on Game Pass on my PC because I got a, I got it for a dollar Game Pass for 14 days. So a dollar well spent, but I would have spent 40 bucks on this. And on top of that, this game takes maybe 12 hours. That, if I had to guess, that's what, so it's, that's the perfect length for this game. Absolutely.

[00:56:17] All right. I'm going to talk about Magic the Gathering again. Oh no. I'll keep it short. I know, I know. I'm sure there's people that say, fuck Kevin, we only like video games. Shut the fuck up about your stupid nerdy card game. I got to be real though. No shit. I actually do like hearing people talk about TCGs. I don't play them. So it's just like, I, I don't know. I, I like this kind of talk, whether it's a Pokemon or Magic the Gathering, anything. I actually do like hearing about this. So go ahead. Okay, good. Well, I'm glad, I'm glad you're here for it.

[00:56:47] So new set came out a couple of weeks ago. Tarkir Dragon Storm. This, this was especially a special set for me when I first started, when I first learned how to play Magic the Gathering, it was around 2014, I think. And it was right around the time that the Tarkir block came out. So there was Khaans of Tarkir, Fate Reforged and Dragons of Tarkir. And so when I learned to play, when I was like, you know, getting really into it at that time, buying, buying cards, that was the set that came out.

[00:57:17] And this is the first time that they're revisiting Tarkir since then. So that in itself is really cool. I talked last time when I talked about Aether Drift. Which, which I wasn't opposed to, but definitely the community had, or a portion of the community had an issue with the flavor not matching, you know, what they want to see for high fantasy. Well, this set is called Dragon Storm. This is like what the community wants. There's a shitload of big dragons.

[00:57:47] It's, it's, it's very flavorful. It's, it's, um, there's lots of callbacks to the Tarkir set. Um, and this is really cool too. I don't know, because again, I definitely have not regularly kept up with Magic since 2014. I don't know if they've done this before. Um, but they had five different pre-release versions. So when you go and get a pre-release pack, um, to, to build a deck with, um, uh, so, so

[00:58:15] the, the five clans align with the, with the five different colors. Um, and so you get five packs and then you get one pack that is seated specifically to that, that clan that you picked the pre-release set for. Um, and so each of those clans kind of have their own dynamics. One, you know, one clan is going to be more focused towards like, you know, reanimating creatures out of your graveyard or whatever. Um, so that was really, really cool. Let me ask this though.

[00:58:41] Is this to imply that like the pre-release set, you can only get them in that pre-release set. Like you can't get them just in general packs or something like that. No. So all, all of the cards are available in all of like just the regular booster packs, but just, if you get, um, you know, if you, if you get one of those five clans, you get five booster packs that are the same as what you'd get if you just went to the store and then there's like a clear pack and that clear pack will have, you know, only the three colors

[00:59:10] and usually like better cards of those three colors. So it's, you don't have to build your pre-release deck around those colors, but it's definitely predisposed towards building in those colors and kind of pursuing the strategy that, that you find most interesting. That's cool. No, that is good because it's like, Oh, it's like you said with the reanimating, like that. Yeah, that's okay. I want to do that. Let me get this particular, you know, you don't often get chances to do that in the TCG. Okay. That is cool. I like that. Yes. So that was awesome.

[00:59:40] Um, the thing I like the most about this set, which, uh, I'm trying to limit myself to a few minutes here. Um, art wise, great, um, mechanics, great. Um, one of the limiters with most sets is when you build a deck, you don't want to have too many big creatures because you need to be aware of your mana curve. And, you know, if you just fill, if you fill up your deck with things that cost six or seven mana, you're going to draw them through most of the game. You're never going to be able to play them. And it just kind of ruins your deck.

[01:00:08] However, again, the set is called dragon storm. So you want to have lots of big dragons. So they do this mechanic, um, where, where they have these omen spells. So if you draw a dragon card, uh, not all of them, but a lot of them will also have an omen. So rather than costing like six or seven mana to play the dragon, you can play the omen spell for, you know, two or three or whatever it is, um, get some use out of that card and then shuffle it back into your deck.

[01:00:35] Um, and, and that's fantastic because that gives you the ability to, you know, stack your deck with those large dragons that are just fun to play. It's, it's fun when you're playing the game and you get the fucking big gnarly guy that, you know, does all the shit. Right. Um, but you don't have to worry about like, I can only run, you know, two or three of these. You can, you can run, you know, much, much more because all of those cards have a secondary use. That's not going to, going to screw up your curve, which is awesome. That is awesome.

[01:01:03] It's always good when any game, no matter what it is, lets you do cool shit more often. You know, I've always, no matter what it is, video games or otherwise and card games as well. You get to, cause you, cause I see that it's like, oh man, you get the, whenever there's like a cool card, especially I see this on Pokemon only because people complain about it. There's this really cool Pokemon card, but the conditions have to be so fucking perfect for you to do it. Right. I just wish it wasn't always like that where you can just do cool shit more often. And that is fun.

[01:01:32] Sometimes I definitely have built decks where it's like, you know, maybe one in 10 times I use this deck, I'm going to get to do the like really fucking cool, fun, exciting thing. And when you do get to do it, that's really fun and really cool. But it's also fun to have a set where it's like, I want to use dragons and like big, cool dragons, you know, by the time we get later in the game, like pretty much every turn. And this set kind of allows you to do that if you want to. So awesome. It's, it's an A plus set. I love it.

[01:02:03] That's cool. That's it. No more magic. That's, that's it. All right. Well, you want to put those cards away. I know Steve isn't here, so nobody can object this time. All those in favor of taking a shower, say aye. Aye. We do. I, I know that he does object, but do you feel like we're kind of leaving him out? Should we stay dirty for two more weeks? No. So he doesn't feel excluded. All right. Okay.

[01:02:32] Let's go. Yeah. Let's get it. That was quick. Let's hop in. It's time to hit the showers. We'll be right back.

[01:03:41] Oh man. I am refreshed. I'm so glad there's nobody here to make fun of my towel snapping skills. They were okay. I've got a few moderately red marks. Okay. Not beet red. Well, Steve always fucking roasts me for my towels. I mean, I don't know why he's so harsh on it. It's as if he's a towel snapping master. I mean, please. Have you ever seen him snap a towel? No. I'm the only one. You're the worst towel snapper around. Yeah. Okay. God. Okay.

[01:04:10] Told him. Told his ass off while he can't respond. All right. We got some big questions this week because, well, a couple weeks ago, we were here to talk about the Switch 2 presentation and there's been a lot of stuff since. A lot of chatter since. So we just kind of wanted to round up all the hysteria about it because I think a lot of it is stupid.

[01:04:38] Some of it's fair to criticize, but some of it's not. So here's what we're going to do. Kevin, you say one of the things that has annoyed or intrigued you, et cetera, about this last two weeks of Switch 2 talk. And then I'll rebut. I'll agree or disagree with you or again, browbeat you into my correct opinion. So why don't you start with a topic? Switch 2 topics. All right. Yeah. There's no shortage of topics. So I'll try and find something here.

[01:05:05] Let's start with the console pricing because it seems like that's what everybody was the most worked up about, right? They did their treehouse. And I actually looked in the chat when the treehouse was going on like early the first morning and it's exactly what they said it was. Every single comment was lower the price, lower the price. So there's a few items at play here. Number one, as we talked about last episode and everybody agreed, this looks more robust

[01:05:33] than we were thinking it was going to be. Quite a while ago before tariffs were going crazy and all of this, I think we had landed on roughly $399. You know, the doc has a fan. We probably weren't expecting that. I think this looks more capable than what we were expecting. Um, so that, that's, that's one thing that I think people had this $399 number in their head and aren't accounting for what they actually are getting for this. I wasn't expecting a 1080p screen.

[01:06:02] I'll tell you that much. I thought it was going to be 720p again. So. Yeah. Um, also, you know, April 2nd, what, what, what did, what did, what did, what did you proud Americans call it? Fucking liberation day. Was it liberation day? Somebody knew, everybody knew the fucking tariffs were coming that afternoon. And obviously they didn't know what, didn't fucking Trump didn't know what was going to happen that morning either. Apparently. No, of course not.

[01:06:30] But there was even for what they originally announced the MSRP for, um, you know, they knew that was coming that day and I'm sure there was some buffer intrinsically built into that. Um, because regardless of where the tariffs were directed, I'm sure they expected that the manufacturing pipeline is going to have costs added in ways that they couldn't a hundred percent plan for. So yeah, I think the console pricing outrage is unreasonable. Yeah.

[01:06:58] I'm not sure people, again, it's like you said, I don't think people understand what they're getting here. We're getting something. Remember all the talk we've talked about it so many times. Oh, it's going to be like a PS4 and it's going to be, no, it's not a PS4 is a steam deck. It's going to be more powerful than a steam deck or don't put it out, you know, like, and steam deck does a lot of things and it's more expensive than what the switch to was going to cost. And the switch to is more powerful.

[01:07:28] Okay. So like chill, I think four 50 for a device like this is perfectly reasonable. And if you weren't expecting this, you just weren't paying attention. Sorry. Like from, from two years ago at gamescom when they were showing breath of the wild at 4k 60, a PS4 can't do that. You're going to have to have some real horsepower to be able to do something like that. So, or, or to play a, what can we do? 10 ADP 120 and Metroid prime for a PS4.

[01:07:58] Can't do that. A steam deck can't do that. You need good hardware. Now I was shooting for the moon. I was saying series S, right? This isn't quite a series S, but it's much closer than people might realize. So yeah, four 50 is a good price for a device like this. I get, we live in the times that we do. I completely understand at the same time. Sorry. That's just what these things cost. On top of that.

[01:08:26] I know it's not fun or sexy to talk about, but inflation, like it, you know, everybody knows it's a thing and nobody wants to hear about it when it comes to, you know, these, these what are truly not necessary to own devices, but that's, that's a factor as well. So, yep. Um, games, uh, I do question if, if at a console release is the time to bump up game MSRP by another $10.

[01:08:53] Obviously I know Doug Bowser came out and he talked about like variable pricing, et cetera. Um, and I'm sure that they've done a million models where they've said, okay, you know, here's what we expect our bottom line will be. Um, if it's, if it's 80, here's what we expect. It's going to be at 70. We expect to lose this amount of consumers, but gain this much revenue. You know, they've obviously thought about that extensively. I do think, yeah, it's a weird time to roll it out.

[01:09:20] Mario cart is a very impressive looking title, but it also Mario cart just seems like a weird title to lead the charge for the $10 price increase. Um, I do wonder if, you know, just from a business perspective, if they would have been further ahead to go a year down the line on a flagship game, you know, we've got the new big 3d Mario or whatever, maybe that would have been a more opportune, uh, moment for them to do it.

[01:09:48] Of course I would like to pay $4 for each of my games. I'm, but you know, more Mario cart eight deluxe is one of the best selling video games of all time. That's a fact. I'm like, if there's any place to do this, it's here. It, this, this sells more than regular Mario or Zelda or Mario party or anything else he put out by miles. Mario cart is it for Nintendo. I'm not saying it's their everything.

[01:10:17] It's just their best selling thing. It has been for a long time. Mario cart. We sold crazy numbers at the time too. Right. So I don't go ahead. I just, I don't, I don't, I get what you're saying. And you know, when they're thinking about how many they're going to sell, but as far as like consumer reception, I think you should be taking into account more of the perceived value, not how many sales are getting made. I think they are.

[01:10:46] And I think, I think people will just show up at the store and buy it. Here's the thing. I don't think we're so different from 30 years ago where we would show up at the store and see that Chrono trigger costs $80 or killer instinct gold costs $80 or fantasy star four costs $90 and go like, well, that's an outrage. I understand we didn't have the internet. Well, we did, but we didn't go on BBSs and complain about it. Right. Like maybe we did. I didn't see those.

[01:11:15] I didn't see those bulletin boards. Point being, I think we just accepted that like video games were the price that they were. Some games are 50, some are 60, some are 70, some are 80, some are 90. And we're just going to have to deal whatever they think their game is worth is what it is. I think we just need to get back to that mentality. I don't think it's bad that anyone's selling their game for 80 bucks.

[01:11:36] Also, I feel like as far back as a year ago, we were already carrying water for GTA six. Is this going to be the first $100 game and shit like that? Remember all those articles? People were basically just priming us to be like to pay $100 for GTA six. And look, a lot of people will. I'm not. Look, I wouldn't pay $20 for GTA. I'm just not interested. I'm going to pay $80 for Mario Kart world. And that's it.

[01:12:06] I'm not going to pay $80 for Mario Party. I'm not going to pay $80 for, I don't know, the next Kirby. I'm not. Right? So they're going to have to price stuff accordingly and they're going to have to see how their sales play out. It's just, again, back in the day, there's a lot of games that I wasn't going to pay $80 for, so I didn't. And I think that's okay.

[01:12:29] I think there's just this entitlement nowadays where it's like we need to be entitled to pay whatever people think is a fair price for a video game. And there's not. That's just not how things work. And I get it. We've been in a mode for so long where all games cost $50. Now all games cost $60. Now all games cost $70. We need to just get out of that mentality. I agree with that. Let me tell you where I think they actually did completely drop the ball.

[01:12:58] I think the messaging here has been consistently very sloppy. Now, I don't think that they needed to announce MSRP on the direct. I don't think that was critical that they do that. Of course, everybody was waiting for that. But I think, first of all, they would have been much further ahead just to make a statement at that point, knowing that the fucking tariffs are coming that afternoon saying, you know, due to current shifting market conditions, we look forward to announcing MSRP and pricing information in coming weeks.

[01:13:28] I think that would have been the smarter move, you know, because obviously they did on the Internet just announce the MSRP and then said, well, hold on. We're not doing pre-orders. We don't quite know yet. That was the worst look. Saying anything on the direct or not seemed pretty short-sighted, not knowing how that was going to play out. And this was the weirdest one to me. That $80 pricing for Mario Kart.

[01:13:58] You had to go onto the game page and scroll all the way to the bottom to see that. That was weird. Of course, that's going to fucking blow up. Like, they know how the goddamn Internet works. Like, as if, like, you know, somebody's not going to stumble onto that for, you know, fucking three days and then they're going to put a post on Reddit and, like, three people are going to see that Switch games are going to be $80. No, it was the fucking talk of the town four minutes after the direct ended.

[01:14:26] You know, so if that is the decision that you made, then go ahead and say that because sticking it, like, at the bottom without any sort of, like, press release or announcement of any kind just, like, had a feeling of shadiness to it. I don't know if I totally agree. I do think it's a weird place to put the price all the way at the bottom after you scrolled the entire website. But I don't know, man.

[01:14:54] Like, where, okay, where did you, where's a good place? Right up at the top of the website? Like, I don't think that's correct either, necessarily. Here is the big price you're going to be paying, right? When you click on Mario Kart World dot com or whatever, right? Like, I don't I don't know if that's correct either.

[01:15:11] The thing to do to me would have been to say we're going to announce pricing information later, see how the tariffs play out, let the fucking fall out settle for, you know, a few days a week until things aren't changing every hour on the hour and then put out a press release. You know, they can they can they can just have like a one one image.

[01:15:30] They can put it on their Facebook and their Twitter and everything and just say, here is the American MSRP for the switch popular upcoming games and and accessories. Right. And have everything listed on there. They're being upfront about it. They've had time to, like, see, you know, where they're going to have to backtrack and readjust. That would have been the way to do it to me. And it just would have felt more upfront. Well, yes, I guess I.

[01:16:01] I agree with what you're saying, but it also somehow doesn't feel correct. I don't know why I maybe just I think it would have been bad for them to come out of that day not knowing a single price of anything. I think is how I feel. We had to know the price of some stuff, whether it's a console, some game, some accessories, whatever. Do we know how much a switch to pro controller is? I don't know. I get that it would have been weird for them to, like, say, hey, wait.

[01:16:27] But but I mean, just given the given the fucking news that was going on to that day, I think that would have been understandable. I think people would have said, you know, we know that the fucking entire world economy is going apeshit today. You know that that's why they're not releasing pricing information. I don't think that would have been good. I think that's where I'm going to stick it. Is that like we had to know the price of some stuff, whether it's console games, whatever we did. Also, just talk about pricing in general.

[01:16:57] I think we need to get back to the place of like the MSRP, the manufacturer suggested retail price used to truly be a suggestion. Like sometimes back in the day, OK, I paid eighty four ninety nine for killer instinct gold. That's still the most I've ever paid for a game that came out in America. That is for a U.S. console. That wasn't an import or anything. Eighty four ninety nine. I went to Toys R Us and bought that thing. So like that's more than MSRP.

[01:17:26] So and then we had I think for a while, Walmart used to sell switch games for less than 60 bucks. You could often go in there and get them for I don't know if they're fifty four ninety nine or whatever, but like they were not sixty dollars at Walmart. So I but that those are like rare cases nowadays. I think we need to truly get back to that. MSRP is truly a suggestion.

[01:17:51] I mean, that's I think that's impossible to do in this day and age because, you know, the Amazons and the Walmart are always going to hit the lowest common denominator. Right. So I think I think whatever whatever Amazon and Walmart go with, that's what everybody else needs to go with. I think I mean, it would just be super fucking weird to go into a mom and pop game store and they just you know, they just have this game for ten dollars more.

[01:18:18] Because it just doesn't work that way where you just go in and shop and like find what you want in the store anymore. Everybody knows what these games are going to cost going into this. Everybody's got the Internet. I think it just that system doesn't work in this day and age. You don't see a world where Amazon will sell Mario Kart World for seventy three dollars, not eighty. You don't see that happen? I think I think that does that that that still does occasionally happen.

[01:18:47] And I'm sure there are certain points where where some places will undercut the price a little bit because they ordered so much stock that they got it for a slightly lower margin than, you know, what what somebody who is ordering twenty percent of those twenty percent of that figure would have would have paid for it. Also, you can't do that because digital if you go on the switch to shop, it's going to be seventy nine ninety nine. Right. At that point, people aren't going to pay that just to get a card.

[01:19:17] Well, I guess some people might because limited run games exists, but, you know, well, here this is this is a fucking great segue because this is the other massive fuck up. I think they had just continued with the messaging in the following days. Right. There was rumors and shitty screenshots of alleged European European retailers with physical games being ten dollars more. This is like up to this week.

[01:19:43] I've still heard like major outlets still referencing like we don't know if this is exactly going to be a thing yet. It seems like nothing has been said in North America as far as physical games being ten dollars more. But Nintendo should have been in front of this like days following. You know what I like this shouldn't this they shouldn't have set the conditions for this like fueling rumor to be happening for fucking weeks.

[01:20:13] It's kind of insane. And I don't think Nintendo of ten years ago or Nintendo of six years ago would have let this shit fly. It seems like their ability to be proactive as far as consumer messaging has like really fucking died out because they have a need to flex that muscle due to the success and positive reception of the switch.

[01:20:40] I think this is going to be the thing I'm going to have to completely disagree with you the most about just because like it's not Nintendo's fucking fault that the press not just not just the Internet. The press ran with stuff that was not true. Remember that stuff about like, oh, the the switch to editions of like Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom.

[01:21:03] People were saying, oh, it's just the switch one version and then and then they apply the thing to it and it's like, no, it's the switch to edition of the game. There's nothing like that. It's not like you buy a PS5 game. It's the PS4 version and then it upgrades itself to the P. No, it's the PS5 version on a disc just like it's the switch to version on a card. And you know how we found that out?

[01:21:25] Someone online or not someone online, but a person just emailed Nintendo and asked them and they said, yeah, it's the switch to edition on a card. It's not, you know, anything else. Okay. Problem solved. I don't know why every fucking outlet just ran with something that wasn't true. I don't think that's Nintendo's fault. Oh, I don't think that's Nintendo's fault either. But the result is that there are tons and tons and tons of people that are misinformed.

[01:21:54] I don't think I think as far as I can understand there, there is still some legitimacy to some European retailers selling physical copies for 10, 10 pounds more. Or has that been 100% disproven? I don't think that's been 100% disproven. However, I don't, again, I don't think that's an unusual thing, especially early in a system's life. Any cartridge system, while the cartridges are still expensive, it's happening again.

[01:22:22] We saw this early in the Switch's life too. I remember there was some stuff that was 20 bucks on the eShop and $30 retail, right? Now, that's not exactly the same thing. We're talking about a much lower price point there. At the same time, at that price point, it's like 33% more money you're paying if you want a card, right? And I feel like that was not a big deal back then. It was just like, okay, if we want these games on cards for now, we're going to have to pay more. I'm not sure why it's a controversy now.

[01:22:52] I guess when we've kind of already been through this. Yeah. And again, I'm not disagreeing with that. I just think there would have been immense value in Nintendo being prepared to get in front of these things. Because I think they're having a fucking wildfire PR nightmare right now. I bet you they're having fucking panicked rush meetings every single day saying, this has gotten way out of hand. How do we deal with this? How do we get the consumers to know what the actual truth is?

[01:23:22] Because the amount of misinformed people is insane. So, you know, whether there's... Just to be able to say, you know, okay, the MSRP of physical games matches or it doesn't. And just get rid of all of these people, like, spreading. Because what Nintendo wants is people to be talking online about how fucking cool the games look. And they're excited to have the console. And when are pre-orders coming?

[01:23:47] They don't want people running around being like, oh my god, are they trying to jip us out of an extra $10 for our physical games? And like all of this negativity. So again, I agree. I don't think any of this is Nintendo's fault. But I think they are suffering some probably like pretty negative repercussions due to not being in front of it. Yeah. You're not wrong. I just don't like the... Everyone else is being irresponsible. So Nintendo has to, like, come in and clean it up.

[01:24:17] I just think that, like, yeah, that's how press works sometimes. Or PR, rather, in general. I get it. Like, it's your job to clean up messes, whether it's your fault or not. I just hate that we got to the point where everyone's just calling, Nintendo is so greedy. They're doing this and that. And it's like, do we even know they're doing this and that? And, like, maybe just stop and maybe Nintendo is a company. I'm not sure who you thought they were. Maybe this could lead into your last point.

[01:24:43] Like, where I don't know who, like, people thought Nintendo, like, was. But they're a fucking company trying to make the most money possible. Like, every other single company. I'm not sure why people are treated. Oh, I thought Nintendo was different. No, they're not. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't personally feel animosity towards Nintendo about this.

[01:25:05] But I think a lot of a contributing factor of what's going on and just public perception comes from this expectation that Nintendo is cost conscious and consumer friendly. Right? So, all of a sudden, while this is going on, you know, there was all the talk about, you know, remember when he ought to cut his wage to avoid layoffs?

[01:25:25] I think around this time, Reggie did do an interview where he was, like, talking while all of the talk of what's the fucking demo game where you walk around the Joy-Cons and shit? Like, while everybody has worked up about that being a big title, he was like, oh, yeah, I was advocating for Wii Sports to be a pack-in. You know, so the Switch was wildly successful. For those people who don't know, Wii Sports was a pack-in in America and Europe. It was not a pack-in in Japan. You had to buy Wii Sports.

[01:25:54] Oh, okay. I didn't know that. So, Reggie fought for that here. But I think the Switch was incredibly successful and it's kind of pushed Nintendo away from prioritizing that stuff. They don't need to do it. And as you kind of alluded to, right, a company is legally liable to generate as much revenue for shareholders as possible.

[01:26:15] And so, you know, when this is just kind of the current state of Nintendo, I think there's going to be some growing pains associated with that public perception and how it's changing. Okay. I mean, you might be right. I just hate when it's at the hands of stupid people saying stuff that's not true. You know, I just, that really bugs me. I'm not saying Nintendo is beyond criticism here, but let's criticize them for the right things. Not just shit you made up. You know? Nope.

[01:26:46] It's just, it's so weird to me. Yeah. No, I get it. I just, again, you know, the bottom line to me, I feel like Nintendo has done a pretty poor job of messaging. I feel like they should have been in front of this stuff. And it's a challenging fucking situation to navigate for, you know, numerous reasons. But I think they still should have been. I think they did a bad job of it in that respect.

[01:27:20] All right. So one other thing that we saw in the Switch 2 presentation. Gee, is all our big questions about Switch 2? Just Switch 2 leftovers. Tis the season. Tis the season. It's the Switch 2 Part 2 show.

[01:27:41] So I'm sure everyone remembers Dragon Drive, the gimmick game, if you will, of the Switch 2 presentation where you're using the two Joy-Con 2s like mice and you're playing wheelchair basketball. But a futuristic version, you know? So I'm sure everyone's seen that with the cool futuristic arenas and he went up on the ramp and he dunked, you know, and shit like that. I was like, okay, that's interesting.

[01:28:06] And we all had the reaction of, oh, man, this is actually a cool game, but I don't think I want to play this. This looks exhausting. I don't actually want to do this. But anyway, the Nintendo events are happening around the world and the one happened in London recently. And we found out an interesting thing about Dragon Drive's marketing. At this event, the Nintendo PR people said they were told to refer to them as vehicles and not wheelchairs.

[01:28:35] Vehicles was the terminology, officially. So Laura Kate Dale had a skeet thread about this, and she said, I'm just paraphrasing a few skeets here. And I quote, I asked for clarification if this was in-game terminology, and the specific reply was, quote, that's what we've been told to say, end quote. Further clarifying, both times the context was, player says wheelchair, Nintendo rep corrects their language choice.

[01:29:05] I think that's why it felt jarring, the context of folks being steered away from using the word wheelchair in natural conversation, end quote. So, Kevin, this is weird. What is Nintendo afraid of here? I don't really know. Why don't you go first? I don't understand this. Yeah, well, I definitely don't know, but I think I have a guess.

[01:29:29] I wonder if there were concerns that the drivers of these, quote unquote, vehicles are robots or androids or whatever. So obviously, they're not purposefully designed to be physically disabled. You know, so then maybe the hesitancy is like, we don't we don't want to call these wheelchairs because obviously the robots don't, you know, need to be driving these things. And they're scared. There's some blowback coming from from that direction.

[01:29:56] I mean, and of course, I, you know, I can't speak on behalf of somebody who can't walk. But I also feel like it's kind of weird being said these aren't wheelchairs. So because last show, I specifically commented, I thought it's probably really exciting for some kids who are in a wheelchair to feel representation with this game. And I feel like, you know, maybe by saying, hey, we can't call these wheelchairs. These are vehicles. Like, I feel like it's kind of taking something away from that. Maybe. I don't know. It's it's a fucking weird situation.

[01:30:24] I think maybe the better way to handle this would have just been, you know, if they want to call them vehicles in the game, do that. But telling people specifically to correct players at the demo to not, you know, we don't call them wheelchairs. That seems like they're way pushing it in the wrong direction. It's also just something you can't police. First of all, I agree with you, but you can't. People are going to their wheelchairs. We're going to call them wheelchairs. Like, that's all there is to it. That's what they are.

[01:30:54] Like, sorry. Like, and also the sport this is based off of is literally called wheelchair basketball. I didn't just call it that to set this question up. That's literally what the sport is called. So, yeah, this is a futuristic version of it or whatever. And it's it's not, quote unquote, real. Like, this isn't a wheelchair basketball sim, although that would be kind of badass. But but they're wheelchairs.

[01:31:21] That's like I don't think there should be anything controversial about having a game about it. And they have to know this is a losing battle. That's why the PR are so, like, adamant about it. Everyone's going to call them wheelchairs. There's not a goddamn thing they can do to stop us. Just like just like we all called it the Wiimote condom or whatever. When they came out with the like, I'm sure they didn't want us to call it a condom. Guess what? We all call them condoms and we still call them condoms. We're going to call it a wheelchair. This is where they need to do the alpha move.

[01:31:51] They should have just started printing the condoms with the word condom in Nintendo font and shipping them like that. And just fucking own it. I'm trying to put the red Nintendo font with the oval around it and everything. It just says condom. Maybe maybe a little like imprinted image of Mario giving a thumbs up beside the word condom. Oh, my God. Oh, Lord. That would be.

[01:32:21] I'm just imagining literally the Nintendo logo is sending me right now. Just literally imagining it saying condom. Yeah, I just it's weird, man. It's something they can't police. It's the Streisand effect. Everyone's just going to call it a wheelchair and they should. It's what it is. No. Going back to the thing you said about they're not real people, they're androids or something. And like maybe so they're not actually disabled because it's not a real person. Do you think the opposite is true?

[01:32:49] Do you think they made them androids because they didn't want to put a real person in the wheelchair like doing tricks and stuff? Because, again, I don't think that's a problem either. But no, yeah, I assume that that was probably more of an artistic decision to do it that way. Just to give it, you know, that's just we want to make it futuristic looking was my guess. I think it would be cool if you could have your me in the wheelchair and play. Right?

[01:33:18] Like, yeah, that would be a good that would be a like super good way to handle that, actually. Yeah, I don't know. I think I think it's fine, but I'm not Nintendo, I guess. All right. Steve is not here. I have an Andre specific Andre focused question. Ooh, late on me. Andre with the switch to coming out.

[01:33:48] Is it now acceptable to play games such as Tony Hawk Pro Skater three and four on the switch to acceptable to play? I'm genuinely asking. I know you felt very strongly like, you know, the switch experiences are very compromised.

[01:34:10] Do you feel like the switch to is in a place where obviously I'm sure there are there's still going to be some compromises between a switch to and a PS5 version in in, you know, most cases. But and I Steve and I both agree. I think there's definitely something to be said for portability, especially when I've got two little fucking gremlins that are, you know, trying to watch goddamn gravity falls on the TV when I want to play video games. Is that is that an easier case to make now?

[01:34:41] Okay, since I am the arbiter of these things and I get to decide whether you play stuff on switch to or not only me, my voice right here. You know, I got to be real. I'm pretty I was pretty impressed by what I saw in that switch to presentation. Now, some stuff didn't look great. Like Elden Ring didn't look that great. Right. Like I felt like that was like, ooh, but, you know, again, it's from a sizzle reel, not even a sizzle reel, just a quick showing of it. Okay, I'm not going to judge it too harshly.

[01:35:10] I think the answer is going to be yes. And I think the tests are going to happen real fast because at launch there's going to be Street Fighter six. There's going to be I don't know if Elden Ring is launch. I think it is. There's going to be probably that Oblivion remaster that we all know is coming next week and being shadow drop. But, you know, not not anything officially being said.

[01:35:35] And yeah, I think it is safe now to finally be like, yeah, I think we can play these games on switch to and you're not going to get a compromise experience. It's going to be better than like Steam Deck. Like I feel like that's a thing that's happening, too. I feel like people see that thing on the Steam store verified on Steam Deck and think like, oh, this is going to run great. No, that just means the game will boot and you won't have any problems.

[01:36:01] That doesn't mean that Final Fantasy seven rebirth says verified on Steam Deck. Do you actually want to do that? I don't think you do, you know, because like it seems like there's all these things that come out nowadays of like. Like, what's the last thing? Avowed. Avowed runs like shit on Steam Deck. And of course it does. Look at it. Right. But it's like people just expect just because they can boot it, it's going to run well. I hope we get out of that mentality fast.

[01:36:28] I think Switch 2 is going to be it's more powerful than that, obviously. So, yeah, if you want to play Octopath Traveler 3 on Switch 2, I'm not going to bitch at you this time. OK. Do you think we're at the point where Andre would possibly play Octopath Traveler 3 on Switch 2, despite it possibly being ever so slightly, ever so slightly compromised, but then being able to play it portably?

[01:36:57] That is a very good question. Very, very good question. I definitely. OK, I'll put it this way. I definitely wouldn't get Octopath Traveler 3 on PS5 at this rate. I'd be get out on Switch 2 or get it on Steam. Because obviously on Steam, I could play on Steam Deck and then also my saves are in the cloud and I could just play on the computer as well.

[01:37:22] So, yeah, there is a world now where I would play Octopath Traveler 3 on Switch 2. OK, you got me. Fine. OK, I've gotten that far. Let's up the ante a little bit. If you felt the need to play Cyberpunk, would you entertain playing it on Switch 2 or would that be a non-starter? That's a non-starter. I'm playing that on PS5 for sure. It's something like that where it's like you want the most use possible.

[01:37:48] I'm not playing Hellblade 2 on Switch 2. You know what I mean? There's some things where it's like, you know what? Yeah, I'm not playing about on Switch 2. Would Steve and Kevin get berated for playing Cyberpunk on Switch 2? Is that socially acceptable in your circles now? I would berate. OK, I'm sorry, Steve. I would berate him. I wouldn't necessarily berate you. OK, that's how I feel.

[01:38:18] Great answer. Because you would be doing it. Oh, I want to see how this runs on Switch 2. Steve wants to live on Switch 2. He thinks he can just play everything on there. OK, so I need to tell him, bro, you have a much better way to do this. I can't play it on the toilet. Well, fuck you. OK? There's no reason to be.

[01:38:46] If you have other means, you should not play Cyberpunk that way. Sorry. Great answer. Now that I've talked. This is the most shit we've ever talked about somebody who was not here. Whenever we've done a two-person show, me and Steve have never talked this much shit about you. Yeah, I don't think I've made out this bad when it's just the two of you. I'm sorry, Steve. I have not been pretty. This is all Andre. This is me. Well, when he comes back next time, I'm in trouble. Holy shit. He's going to fucking.

[01:39:16] I can feel the heat already. Steve, I'm sorry. Maybe if I name this episode. Maybe if I name this episode, Steve, I'm sorry. He won't be mad at me. Oh, my God. Can you imagine when he woke up? OK, that's the name of the episode. The same as this episode is called Steve. I'm sorry. We should get the fuck out of here. So I can start editing this shit. Almost. Almost. Thank you for joining me. Like you're a guest or something. Well, thank you for joining me. On fine time.

[01:39:46] You know what? You are welcome for me gifting my time to you. OK. All right. I'm so hungry. I'm going to go have dinner. See you guys. Thanks for joining the Andre and Kevin show for this week. Steve will be back next. Big deal. We promise. Check the description of this podcast to find our links to social media. And we'll see you next time. Bye. We'll catch you next time. This has been.