Rise of the Tomb Raider

[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of the Pre-Order Bonus Podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Cameron Warren and I'm joined as always by Jacob Price. It's June 27th, 2024. Summer is in full swing and we're back again to talk about video games.

[00:00:30] Jake, give me your thoughts right off the top. Is Shadow of the Error Tree too hard? Folks, you are allowed to to scorn me, to belittle me, to call me a from soft shill, to kick me while I'm down after I say the following.

[00:00:56] I don't think so anymore. And let me explain why. I think you have Elden Ring, a phenomenal game, the first from soft open world game.

[00:01:12] And from soft sets a new bar for open world and they managed to retain their true chief characteristic of being super difficult in that world.

[00:01:24] But at the same time Elden Ring allows the player to become broken as heck because you have so many options and so many different tools on your belt.

[00:01:35] And so when it comes to creating DLC for this game, how do you design DLC that retains your signature soul's difficulty? But you have a ton of players that are coming in with using all the broken systems that you have designed for the game.

[00:01:53] And so you come up with the, and Cameron corrected me on this. This is something we've learned recently. It's not Scadoo Tree, it's Shadow Tree. Apparently the SC can be pronounced SH. So they come up with the Shadow Tree system, right?

[00:02:07] And I would say that the game was too hard until the most recent patch, patch 1.12, where they messed with the scaling of the Shadow Tree levels where sort of the damage that you get in the damage negation as that increases as well.

[00:02:25] It's not just a linear, it's not a line, right? It looks a little differently. And I think with that patch they made it a lot more fair because I think the first two bosses you encounter like previous to this patch,

[00:02:40] it was just way too difficult to get at a point where you could fight those bosses at a regular soul's difficulty. And rant. Yeah, so this has been the hubbub on the internet in the wake of the DLC release.

[00:02:57] I mean this DLC got like, you know, 10 out of 10s, highest rated DLC of all time, like very critically acclaimed. But then when it upon its immediate release, we just haven't had a chance to talk about it.

[00:03:09] Jake and I have been both obviously been playing, Jake's been playing a ton. I've also been playing pretty much every night, super into it for sure. I'll just say right off the top from soft world, no one touches them when it comes to just world building.

[00:03:27] Like it's great. It's wild. Yeah. Like it's just they're so, they're top tier. They are number one at that for sure. They're just they build these incredible where I just like stare at the screen and I'm like, oh my gosh, like who put this thing?

[00:03:42] This is just this is crazy. Like this is just crazy. I've said that out loud like multiple times just in this DLC also this thing is massive dude. This is like a 40 hour. This is a game. This is just another game. This isn't a DLC.

[00:03:56] This is a game. Yeah, it's funny because several times playing this game, I thought to myself, why didn't they just make this a sequence? Well, you know, because it is a sequel beautifully in the sense that it's a continuation of an important storyline.

[00:04:14] Why didn't they just make this a sequel? And I think part of that is they didn't. I think this was from soft big problem designing this the DLC here is they didn't want to start everybody from scratch, but they wanted the game to still be really hard.

[00:04:27] And so they had to come up with the middle ground and I think they came up with a good one and like I'm repeating myself. I think the current patch is much more fair and kind of falls in line with that sort of balance there.

[00:04:38] But yeah, do this game. I don't know. I mean, I'm going to put a ton of time into it obviously, but it is just massive. It's a sequel. They're just it's basically a sequel. Yeah, just attached to this DLC.

[00:04:51] My comment on the difficulty is I think the past was definitely the right move for sure. Like they just slightly adjusted that curve upwards like higher. Like they made it a stronger curve in those first 10 levels. I think it tails off after level 10 is my understanding.

[00:05:11] Like I believe there's 20 shadow tree fragments 20 levels. 20 levels. Yeah. Sorry, fragments because it takes a couple of fragments from anyway. Yeah. I do think that I do honestly think it is slightly balanced a tad too difficult. Okay. Just barely, but I don't know.

[00:05:40] I can't decide yet if that's like a bad thing or a bad decision or if I just suck and I think I just suck. I think it was the right decision.

[00:05:49] And what I really like about it is that what I really like about it is that it forces everyone who plays this game to reach deep into the game and explore every facet of all the mechanics of the game has on offer in order to conquer the encounters that it provides to you.

[00:06:12] Yeah. I think I find that so brilliant in games when the game forces you to take advantage of all these systems, mechanics, items, all these things the game gives you in order to kind of get through and conquer like the obstacles that it puts in front of you.

[00:06:31] And it makes you kind of go in and explore those where I think a lot of games, you can sort of ignore that. And honestly, Elden Ring the base game, I think you can kind of ignore that a lot of that like for the most part really.

[00:06:42] I think you can't like you can kind of just vibe your way through it.

[00:06:46] Honestly, it's still super hard at points, but you can kind of vibe your way through it whereas the DLC, like I am really stretching myself in this DLC when it comes to like upgrades and like the weapons I'm picking and the builds that I have and like do I need to go get items and power ups and like I need to go explore more and I'm kind of going over and doing these things.

[00:07:09] That's been my experience with the DLC and I am suffering on these bosses like I admittedly didn't even beat the first boss I co-opted Jake carried me and I'm on the second main boss and I'm stuck like I can't beat this guy.

[00:07:24] I'm like really, really stuck. So the reason I say it's maybe slightly too hard is because I have reached a point of not necessarily frustration but fatigue where I'm like, I don't feel super excited to go play tonight because I know that I don't think I'm going to be able to beat the boss.

[00:07:43] And so that makes me because I want to keep going and I want to like explore this world and I want to like continue to see all the encounters of the game as an offer.

[00:07:51] But it could be a situation like well, you're just like you're just not good enough, and you're going to just have to go grind and I don't really want to go grind.

[00:08:00] And I kind of just want to like make it through but the game doesn't really let you do that. It's basically says like nope, like you really have got to increase your level or find a better build or maximize kind of what you have or just get good with your minimal damage that you do have and dodge these

[00:08:17] insane ridiculous combos that these bosses have in the DLC, which are just ridiculous to the point of like yeah I don't know how I'm going to deal with anyway.

[00:08:27] That's kind of where I'm at with it. Obviously fantastic but it's just mixed emotions I think is my currently for me I mean it's a 10 out of 10 experience and we'll have a full episode on it obviously but that's where I'm at emotionally on it.

[00:08:41] Honestly I think some of your wording there is really important. I just kind of want to reiterate some of the things that the DLC forces a player to take advantage of things that are already in place and so that's what Cameron said there and I think that is super important to realize because there are so many systems in Elden Ring that are very easy to not touch.

[00:08:59] Crafting like who cares in some of the crafting items you pick one up you get a good laugh like what gold tinted excrement you're like this is a crafting in a video game this is hilarious right and but you just kind of move on but in you know there is build crafting and that's obviously super key to a lot of this

[00:09:19] game but yeah in Elden Ring especially when you first start out and folks if you are on the fence about Elden Ring this is kind of my advice to you about the DLC this is my advice to you if you played Elden Ring is to play the DLC but don't start a character from scratch.

[00:09:35] Take over whatever character has the most items and the most stuff unlocked because you are going to tinker you're going to min max the crap out of your character when you're working with some of these bosses so I'm currently stuck on a box and it's on a boss and same thing right so I'm min maxing I'm swapping out talismans armor pieces.

[00:09:55] I find myself reading so much more about like the individual like pieces that I have in my arsenal and you know my my flask the wondrous flask whatever and to really like tinker and do this stuff so it is a true end game experience.

[00:10:10] And I think that is maybe the best way to think about this DLC is that it's oh it's a whole new area to explore and bosses to do know this is actually the definitive you know end game cap experience for Elden Ring as a game.

[00:10:31] So you're not going into this to like oh there's a new area to explore and this will be a lot of fun. This is to test your metal. Yeah I think the expectation for a lot of people was like it's just more Elden Ring.

[00:10:43] And I don't think it's just more Elden Ring like it is more Elden Ring but it's also like its own thing. Yeah. And it exists like and the shadow tree fragments kind of are the biggest prime example of that because you can't just go level up.

[00:11:01] You can get more shadow tree fragments but sometimes like I'm at a place where I think I'm blocked from really getting anymore until I can unlock like the pathway to the next area.

[00:11:11] And so I'm like at a place where like okay I got to go like like Jake said I got to go mid max I got to go am I missing any weapons out in the world that like maybe give me like a leg up am I.

[00:11:21] Is there like a summon should I tweak my builds you know like so that's a brilliant that's brilliant game design because it forces the player to like really get into like really get into it and be like a true end game experience like he's just said Jake.

[00:11:38] Which makes me think of the quote from the Helldivers CEO or like studio head who was like a game for everyone is game for no one.

[00:11:46] This game is truly for like in game hardcore Elden Ring players like it is designed for those people unabashedly designed for those people.

[00:12:00] This is not like to get a new player excited about picking up the Elden Ring deluxe edition in a sale that because it has more content now this is literally for the hardest of the hardcore who have beat the base game maybe one or two times or three or four times and giving them like the ultimate challenge and for that.

[00:12:24] I mean that's that's pretty awesome. It is I think it is very cool it is hyper specific kind of like you're saying it's funny though because seeing all this discussion around the Elden Ring DLC.

[00:12:37] People are saying oh this happened before with Bloodborne and the old hunters DLC where there was like a relatively significant jump in difficulty and.

[00:12:49] I got to say I by the end of this year I'm going to have to do a new Bloodborne playthrough and include the DLC because I haven't done that and just kind of see what the hubbub is about and see what the comparisons are like.

[00:13:00] But yeah I don't know I don't have a whole lot more to say on the DLC.

[00:13:05] Of course I'm really enjoying it but I will say that I have been humbled in the sense that yes I was one those Elden Ring diehards that wanted to solo every single boss and never use a summon not use mimic tier all this stuff.

[00:13:18] But I have been humbled let me tell you because these bosses have combos that are freaking outrageous they might be like eight attacks chained in a row.

[00:13:30] And yeah be like branching moments where they can end a chain depending on where you're at they'll read you and they'll use a specific attack break a chain combo that you just got used to end with a specific attack that you know catches you in the middle of roll whatever it is like.

[00:13:46] You have to be so hyper aware.

[00:13:49] That's that's the other thing I love about it is it kind of shut up all the all of the gatekeeping like souls people who are like who are like oh summons like trivialize the game like true true players like wouldn't use summons like you just don't use those.

[00:14:07] And I was like no like they put them in the game as a game mechanic like for a reason they put them in the game to be used in whatever way like the player sees fit it is completely within the and then the DLC was like hey all those people who said that like screw you like here's.

[00:14:24] Because it was like good luck like good luck not using this mechanic that we literally put in the game for you to use. Yeah.

[00:14:32] And to like optimize because yeah just good luck so I mean that's I love that I mean they clear that was a very clear and direct like feedback like okay fine like you don't want to do that like we're gonna.

[00:14:48] And then you know it got kind of review bombed on steam for over the difficulty which is just hilarious which I think is that's a great irony.

[00:14:56] Yeah like less of a mark against the game and more just a representation of just how far and wide Elton ring like reached in its audience like people who normally never played these types of games before yeah totally agree.

[00:15:10] All right I'm going to leave my thoughts for our full episode because obviously we could talk about this for quite a while. Yes that's all I wanted to comment on that really a pretty light news the only other like big news this week was the depressing.

[00:15:25] Yeah perhaps unsurprising news on Dr. Disrespect I think career probably being over. I hope so I mean. Jake you familiar at all with Dr. Disrespect if you ever seen any of his streams anything to that nature he's he's probably one of the biggest out there I would say.

[00:15:44] Or was was one of the biggest had a whole controversy like TLDR had a whole controversy on Twitch Twitch. Can't like cancel this contract he was banned he he basically said oh I did nothing wrong it was all hush hush.

[00:16:01] He moved over to YouTube he's been on YouTube for four or five years now I've actually tuned into his streams like when during during covid like watching warzone admittedly like a really good entertainer like a really high production like streamer

[00:16:16] really like actually quite funny like has some good like good solid stream especially when I was watching like warzone like in the heyday of covid.

[00:16:25] But some NDAs got lifted on some folks at Twitch somebody who's like well aware of the situation drop some info and like the cats out of the bag and the dude did some very bad not good stuff.

[00:16:43] And so I think his career is over that's like the big I think it's that's been like the big news this week on the Internet because he's such a big like streaming celebrity so.

[00:16:54] I mean you know you get what comes to you I I never like I know sometimes it's it's like exciting for people to see people like this like fall from grace and kind of see their demise.

[00:17:09] You know I never love to see people just I never love to see people like get their lives destroyed that's not fun. That being said like the dude made some extremely stupid and horrible decisions. So yeah I guess that that era of streaming is over.

[00:17:32] Yeah I think if you were to look at my Twitch logs you'd find less than 30 minutes of me watching a doctor disrespect stream.

[00:17:41] I think I was watching somebody who like rated him or something and so I was in the channel I was like oh it's this guy didn't do it for me just not.

[00:17:50] Yeah I like to watch anyway and then yeah you know since since that time a lot of stuff has come out about him and I've just kind of steered clear because he just felt like bad news and turns out he was bad news right.

[00:18:03] But it is interesting I think this is another great reminder about like what parasocial relationships and streamers aren't your friends and they're not necessarily good people right. No no they're not I've been watching. I basically only watch co carnage now. And great though there's another guy like Dan.

[00:18:27] I think it's just Dan's gaming Dan's gaming he's like a bald dude super funny super like nice dude on stream very very relaxed variety they're both variety streamers so yeah.

[00:18:40] I basically so there was a time when I was watching like warzone like during COVID I was watching a ton of warzone streams like that was a big thing and then I just died off and I haven't ever since but anyways that's pretty much it for news.

[00:18:58] I think with that we can dive into our topic of this week which we're going back into the backlog nearly years man. No way this game came out in 2015 I looked at all no no it didn't there's no way.

[00:19:18] Oh let me pull up a release date November 10th even said the 2015 what okay that's wild okay. Rise of the Tomb Raider is what we're talking about today from crystal no yes crystal dynamics crystal dynamics who is.

[00:19:41] Currently helping work on the perfect dark that is coming from Xbox Jake how are we going to break down rise of the Tomb Raider Tomb Raider. On today's episode. All right folks we I mean we're both excited to talk about this I have a lot to say.

[00:20:01] We're doing it right we're doing it we're doing it. Doing it live. We're talking about Rise of the Tomb Raider this 2015 game that came out I guess nine years ago nearly.

[00:20:14] We're talking about it in a few categories just a quick heads up folks they're going to be major changes coming to the podcast and that includes the different categories that we're going to use to discuss games.

[00:20:24] So that's coming around July I think 11th is the date that we have picked for that so some things are coming stay tuned it's going to be exciting but we'll be talking about this in our classic.

[00:20:35] Our soon to be classic four categories the first one is narrative we're talking about the story the themes are at play.

[00:20:42] Second is mechanics just how you're interacting with the game the different systems that are in place as you're getting through as Laura Kraft and Laura Kraft excuse me.

[00:20:50] Third will be the gameplay loop and so this is essentially the circuits are kind of baked into the game design that have you progress through the game.

[00:20:58] And then finally impact on the industry it's always fun to kind of go back you know into the backlog and pull out some of these games because you know hindsight is 2020 so we have a little more to say about what these games have done for the industry

[00:21:13] and what kind of wake they have left. So that's how we're going to be talking about Rise of the Tomb Raider first we start off with narrative Cameron what did you think about this game story.

[00:21:23] Dude first off I cannot believe this game is 10 years old because this game looks incredible. This game holds up incredibly well dude you could release this this year and I just I wouldn't even I wouldn't even bad and I wouldn't even think twice about it.

[00:21:40] Like that's how good it looks. It's wild. Yeah Rise of the Tomb Raider this is Lara Croft.

[00:21:49] This is the rebooted part of this is the second game in the like rebooted Tomb Raider games would end up being a trilogy with a third game Shadow of the Tomb Raider Shadow of the Tomb Raider right in 2018. That's right. Shadow in 2018.

[00:22:07] Which funny enough I played a demo for at the 2017 E3. No 2018 E3. The old E3 when it was still E3 I got to go one time.

[00:22:21] Anyway Rise of the Tomb Raider so Lara Croft in the first game she does some stuff she's on a boat gets stranded on a crazy island she makes it off she's back and she's back in the stuff she goes and she finds this game.

[00:22:38] I'm going to give like a really bad recap. She goes and finds this like relic thing in Syria which is the path to find this like hidden city home of a forgotten prophet up in Siberia but it turns out that Trinity is also after this thing.

[00:23:03] Dun dun dun.

[00:23:05] And there's some stuff with her father's journals if you're not familiar with the Tomb Raider game one of the ongoing themes in these games is Lara Croft following in the footsteps of her father who died when she was young who was an archaeologist and had all these books and notes on like all these crazy archaeological endeavors that he was going after one of which was the pursuit of I can't remember the name of the relic Jake what is it do you remember.

[00:23:31] The divine source. The divine source.

[00:23:35] So anyways Trinity is this like corporation the sort of evil corporation that also goes after these sort of like renowned relics and so they get intertwined and then the story unfolds as she goes out and tries to find this thing in the name of her her daddy.

[00:23:56] This is pretty good. Rise of the Tomb Raider. This is. I loved this narrative. I'm not shy about saying this is a really fun. Intense. It's not as fun as in sharded it's more serious.

[00:24:14] Yeah, but this is a really good like serious like if Indiana Jones didn't have jokes and was a bit darker but it kind of pulled it off. That's kind of where we're going with Tomb Raider. But for me it really worked. It really worked.

[00:24:32] I like the I think what stands out to me is I'm going to have a hard time like describing this but what really stands out to me with the power of kind of this narrative is they did a really great job.

[00:24:49] With the with the world building and making the making the relic and the history and the archaeology behind that feel super authentic and like real and like really. I'm starting to think of like the right vocabulary word but like really captivating.

[00:25:18] They really dug deep when it came to kind of making that feel real in just feel like super captivating in the way that they designed a world and then like how the like the tombs look and all of the like text and like wording in the game.

[00:25:35] And like the echoes of sort of Christian sort of like Christian Christian Judeo you know history if you're like I have any familiar with any of that type of stuff and like how they layer that in this game and kind of make all that.

[00:25:51] And then just all that stuff just really works so well that it makes you engrossed in kind of this archaeological pursuit and then there's this like action movie happening behind it which is also like kind of good enough on its own merit.

[00:26:03] But that's really what stood out for me with this game that they that I thought they really nailed was that piece I was just captivated by like figuring out like what is this thing that they're going after because it's like it's kind of a mystery like you don't really know what this thing is.

[00:26:20] And then there's some kind of twist and turns and reveals that happen and I just I was captivated by this.

[00:26:26] Yeah let's see I really enjoying the story and just full disclosure I haven't quite finished the game and it's because Shadow of the Ertree came out and dug into my play time but I'm pretty far into the game I want to say about like two thirds three fourths of the way through the game.

[00:26:41] And what I'm what I've really enjoyed about this is that it's just a really good action adventure story.

[00:26:47] I think it absolutely like calls back obviously Lara Kraft is super inspired by Indiana Jones as it is and then like Cameron is sort of saying when when the game sort of discusses these like Christian mythology.

[00:27:02] It does a really fantastic job of sort of doing what the last crusade does I feel like an Indiana Jones which is to like bring forth these deep like Christian stories that feel like really feel mythologized and kind of borders.

[00:27:18] I don't know I would almost call this like Catholic supernaturalism is like kind of the theme that they sort of present here. Yeah, that's a good word. Yeah where it's like.

[00:27:28] In me that in way I don't mean to be disrespectful to Catholics but real quick thing to add on to that it's kind of akin to what they do in the Da Vinci code books a little bit. Yep it's that vibe. Yeah good.

[00:27:43] Yeah because if you look into some of those like really old hagiographies or just biographies of saints and how they attained sainthood. You find lots of stories like the one that's kind of being followed here in Rise of the Tomb Raider.

[00:27:57] And I think Cameron I like the word that you use here it gives sort of like this authentic feel even though it's totally fiction it gives us great authentic feel to sort of the backdrop and what's happening in Rise of the Tomb Raider.

[00:28:08] But yeah I just I think story wise it's really fantastic. I also agree with Cameron here where it's actually surprising that this game manages to be so interesting without really having a lot of pacing checks like there's no quippy lines.

[00:28:25] You can tell that this game was written no offense MCU but pre MCU influence. Lara Croft isn't making quippy lines there isn't some psychic character that's saying well that just happened or you know what I mean. That's a great call like it really does not have.

[00:28:42] Does it really does have any humor like that I don't think it does no it doesn't serious. It has humor that's more along the lines of maybe one of Indiana Jones's dry lines.

[00:28:55] You know it doesn't have the Indiana Jones humor situations where guy flashes a sword is about to kill Indiana Jones and he just pulls out a gun and shoots a guy like that. Slapstick violence type stuff right.

[00:29:08] So that's not even in there either like yet somehow the game is fine and I think part of that is because the voice acting.

[00:29:16] Let's say I have the name here Camilla Luddington does a great job as Lara Croft and this is just a character that you care about right this is somebody who you can tell that they are hurting deeply because of what's happened to their father because of different things that have happened to them.

[00:29:32] And they're just trying to find some type of restitution and they're very much living vicariously through their dads like long lost dream of sort of finding this divine source.

[00:29:41] And what is super fascinating to me this actually make it made me think a lot about action adventure movies and Indiana Jones especially but like for example Indiana Jones is famous line is like that belongs in a museum right like this is an artifact that needs to be studied but also needs to be viewed publicly this shouldn't belong in a private.

[00:30:02] Like a private collection it's like a really strange hill to die on right but it's really you know what I mean but like but it's captivating and yet looking back it's like well did it need to be in a museum I don't actually know.

[00:30:16] I mean in you I mean there's a good reading in there of like hey Indiana Jones is for public knowledge and public display so everybody can see right.

[00:30:24] So there's a good like message in there but it's interesting because there's several conversations that Laura Croft has with different people in the game that are like well what are you going to do with the divine source.

[00:30:34] She's like I don't know I'm really just doing this because I want to kind of avenge my dad and you could tell it's it's grieving for her what she's doing like she kind of just wants to.

[00:30:44] Yeah she kind of yeah I mean that's probably the correct answer but there are times when you're like she's kind of just doing it because she kind of just wants to.

[00:30:55] I don't know the glory of it or like the I mean she look at this thing I'd yeah I don't know she is the Tomb Raider right like yeah yeah and honestly.

[00:31:05] Reputation I think I think it was actually the right decision to make narratively is to have her stick to that title instead of kind of falling into the Indiana Jones camp of like well that belongs in a museum right so I do a really long way of saying that as much as she is inspired

[00:31:25] to Indiana Jones playing through Rise of the Tomb Raider maybe think nah you know Laura Croft she has earned her own rights she is her own person her stories are her own and I think that's really important and I think Rise of the Tomb Raider retained that.

[00:31:40] That's where the so I've seen the first movie which has the new movie which came out kind of after this game I think. Yeah what's her name Alicia. The candle the candle yeah the candle yeah.

[00:31:55] Yep I think she's that she was a good choice like she does a pretty good job but to your point I think this is a way more effective narrative because they really go into like yeah she's the Tomb Raider and that doesn't necessarily make her like the good like the hero like she is the hero because she kind of ends up.

[00:32:14] Deciding at the last second to be the hero right like light spoilers but like yeah she's kind of just like I'm raiding tombs and I'm just taking stuff that I want because I'm.

[00:32:25] Because my dad did it and I'm gonna do it might I'm gonna finish my father's mission mission and she's into private collections to like it's not going to a museum yeah.

[00:32:36] She and Indiana Jones would butt heads right like she's not carbon copy of him and I like that I like that she's our own character crossover movie idea. Yeah no I enjoyed this should we talk spoilers because this game super old wait how far are you Jake.

[00:32:56] Like about two thirds three fourths of the way through I just hit one really really surprising one that's not hit the major twist. I don't know if it's I don't know if I call it a twist it was this big reveal that I was like oh my gosh.

[00:33:12] That did you do you had the big reveal though about one of the dudes yes yeah okay.

[00:33:20] Yeah that was I think we could just we could just leave it at that but basically I that was a really good reveal that was done super well it was done exceptionally well and I remember like.

[00:33:36] My emotional right that's been a long time since I played this game but I remember vividly like my emotional reaction to that reveal was like oh yeah.

[00:33:46] Yeah like this makes a lot of sense now yeah and it totally ties in with and time time back to sort of how well they present the the like the.

[00:34:01] The history and the sort of background of this pursuit that you're going on for this like ancient relic they present that so well that when that gets revealed to you it really is like.

[00:34:14] This jaw drop moment that it really pays off I can say it's just a fantastic job with that yeah.

[00:34:21] I just I don't know I think it's really hard to set up good reveals like that and I unfortunately I think like when it comes to movies audiences have kind of been trained.

[00:34:35] To look for those types of big reveals and I think the classic example that stands out from Cameron and I's generation would be like the sixth sense.

[00:34:43] Like when when right that reveal hit like that was such a massive pop culture moment you know people were bugging about that for weeks and weeks if you like after the sixth sense came out.

[00:34:57] And since then we're so conditioned to look for reveals and to predict what's going to happen in a movie in parts of people like feeling good and pompous of like oh well I bet you this is going to happen or this happened.

[00:35:07] Oh I knew that was going to happen right we like being snobby like that but it was it was super refreshing to see this game and play through it and hit that reveal and be like oh man.

[00:35:19] I was so engrossed in the game that I had not reverted to my conditioning of looking for this reveal or twist.

[00:35:25] I'm sure somebody out there predicted it I'm sure somebody could but I think the game's narrative is interesting enough that it doesn't reduce the playing experience down to OK I just want to find all these things.

[00:35:37] And I'm sure you'll be able to figure out all the all the clues and figure it all out. Let's talk about the mechanics. This is a third person action adventure game was Jake mentioned. It's got a lot of third person shooting combat so guns pistols.

[00:36:00] If I remember correctly you have like a pistol and an AK-47 that you can modify and then you also have like a pick climbing is very prominent in this game so you're like an ice pick or like a climbing pick.

[00:36:13] And you use that to climb certain sections of the game and you that continues to get upgraded like throughout the game so you'll upgrade like your pistol.

[00:36:23] You'll gather materials like in the world and then you'll hit certain points where you can kind of upgrade those things and they get stronger and stronger throughout the game.

[00:36:31] And then eventually like you will end up getting newer weapons are even more powerful and I feel like those come at like a pretty those are paced out like pretty well so you start off with sort of bare minimum and then you end up with sort of like a Rambo level arsenal of stuff.

[00:36:46] Yeah. Which I feel like it's true to the classic games. It's been a long time since I played them but I did play them on PC like when they first came out like the original Tomb Raider games. Yeah the old school. The old school.

[00:37:00] I'm with the dinosaur in the cave. Yeah oh dude. And then the bow obviously right the bow is such a big bow. It's a big deal. It's the only like projectile weapon that you start with really in the beginning of the game.

[00:37:13] And yeah I was really really surprised at a few things. I'm playing this on story mode because I wanted just kind of get through the game.

[00:37:23] I didn't want to like have a difficult experience playing through this but I was surprised at how fast the combat scenarios happen and that you can't just play dumb on story mode which I thought was actually kind of refreshing a little bit like you you can tank a whole lot of bullets.

[00:37:40] But each level has different set pieces with different things to sort of duck and find cover behind with different items that you can craft like a smoke bomb or a Molotov cocktail or something.

[00:37:53] And I just thought it was a really like mechanically when you get into these combat encounters. It was a cool way of kind of just approaching it.

[00:38:02] I was a little surprised though because the game does kind of encourage you to use stealth because it's like the best way to get XP. It's like kind of the best way to just work your way through a lot of levels.

[00:38:14] I was surprised for a game that's this old how easily spotted I was and maybe I'm just bad at stealth games but. Yeah I felt like I think you can grab. Great.

[00:38:28] I was just saying I feel like the first half of a combat encounter stealth all the way and then somebody sees me and then it's like everyone's got rifles trained on me within one second. Yeah combat situations can get pretty hairy.

[00:38:41] I feel like this game actually does a better job than like than the uncharted games even I think it's like combat is a little bit more tactical and like you have a few more options at your disposal. It can get hairy.

[00:38:55] I played my second play through on hard on purpose. Oh nice.

[00:38:59] Really tough like it gets super tough combat like it actually gets very chaotic and you kind of you have to be quite precise and kind of handle your stealth reveal and but and by the way in the third game they really ramp that up like combat combat actually takes center stage in the third game which I think is different.

[00:39:18] But yeah this is also you bring up the bow. This is pre horizon zero down and this was like one of this is like the game that was like oh this is how a bow should feel in a video. Dude it feels super good.

[00:39:36] Yeah this is the game. This is the game.

[00:39:38] This is that game that defined how all bows and games should be like developed this game is that game or sorry the game before this the first two writer did that this game kind of ramps it up another notch because you end up getting like the.

[00:39:55] What is it the composite bow like yeah yeah anyway. Yeah. There's a there's a skill tree.

[00:40:04] I think there's three different branches in the skill tree so you got like action RPG elements in there you have like a survival skill tree a combat skill tree and then there's like another element to it and it just gives you various buffs and bonuses and like new abilities which I think they did a pretty good job with that.

[00:40:21] So yeah I think the skill tree is fine. My only complaint there is that a lot of the it was super uneven.

[00:40:28] I feel like some abilities had like major impact on what you were doing and some just like weren't even noticeable or to like to hyper specific in terms of when you would actually need them. So I don't know that's relatively common.

[00:40:41] I think of a lot of RPGs and skill trees.

[00:40:44] There is a relatively large hunting component to this game where yeah it kind of took me by surprise but there is a lot of incentive in the game to hunt down animals and to get like specific animal skins because you need them so like where I'm at in the game.

[00:41:04] There's a bunch of stuff I want to craft but it's like oh I don't have the right animal skin to do that. I'd have to find that specific animal hunt it down and get it.

[00:41:13] So yeah a little interesting there that would say that's kind of the only crafting bottleneck right is if you want to get some of the really really good things unlocked as you really got to go out of your way to do it.

[00:41:24] But otherwise I think combat is is fine. My only complaint I think is I don't really feel like there's strong melee combat. Like the gun play is good.

[00:41:35] The bows obviously is the best the melee combat I just avoid really if somebody gets close I whip out my pistol and I just pump the dude full lead right but bows is really the bread and butter this game. I love the different arrows that you unlock.

[00:41:50] I love using those in different situations. Clearly that felt like the emphasis in design and an enjoyment in my experience. Let's talk about the gameplay loop. This is open zone style level design. So you have.

[00:42:09] You basically progress from zone to zone as the game per as like the main narrative progresses. There's collectibles.

[00:42:17] There's sort of many side quests as well that you can go and handle there's a lot of like things you can grab and like secrets out in the world and relics there's tons of relics.

[00:42:28] As it so happens when you're rating different tombs there's lots of stuff you can find in those tombs. So you kind of go through that and you progress through those.

[00:42:36] There's there's kind of a big basically like overarching narrative that you follow with big combat set pieces and then in between that there's like side quest hunting and then the big probably the big one is there's optional tombs.

[00:42:54] And there's a lot of them and they're almost all of them. I feel like her really well done like they're all worth seeing because they're they're super well done. They're super cool. They offer like very interesting kind of visual design.

[00:43:07] Like I said, like they do just such a good job of like building the world of this sort of this ancient civilization right that you feel compelled to kind of go explore these optional things.

[00:43:17] And usually when you get to the end it'll unlock some sort of there's some sort of like good collectible at the end or even upgrades I want to say. Yeah.

[00:43:29] Yeah, I was really surprised if I had all the time in the world this would be a game that I think would be really fun to 100% actually because the the gameplay loop pacing is so well done.

[00:43:40] Camerons laid it out basically you have what feels like really straightforward linear levels with different set pieces different combat arena sort of created and there might be a chase sequence in there at some point and you kind of get from campfire to campfire right where you can stop rest craft items.

[00:44:00] You know and kind of move on the game also is a super generous auto save so you could be like mid combat scenario and die and then it'll just kind of boot you right back up where you died.

[00:44:11] But yeah the open zones are super fascinating to me because they're chock full of things to do there's a bunch of mini puzzles and they're really I mean think classic Tomb Raider right or like classic video game puzzles push this block into this place.

[00:44:29] Pull this lever and raise this platform here jump across these things find your way over here right and so that's kind of what the puzzles are like in the open zone.

[00:44:36] There's like super scaled down hyper like mini puzzles animals to hunt and then in about each zone I want to say there's like four to six different optional tombs that you can go into.

[00:44:47] And they are relatively well incentivized like you said some of them have different upgrades or abilities just like wholesale as the reward other ones it might just be like a ton of.

[00:44:59] Lou it might be like a crafting component that's kind of rare it might be something that you need to unlock like the next type of rifle in your arsenal.

[00:45:08] So there's a lot of like or like gun modifications right so you can get like I think I got like a pistol sight from doing a side quest or whatever it is.

[00:45:16] So it's really well incentivized which is kind of surprising I will be totally honest I thought this game was going to be like all right just kind of rushed the main story that's where the all the excitement seems to be happening.

[00:45:28] But if you want to break from the games combat when you go to one of these open zones you're either hunting I got attacked by a pack of wolves that was exciting. I panicked and I just pulled on my AK and shot him all down.

[00:45:43] But but then you have like the tombs that are just like pure puzzling there's like really no combat at all. And so I was really delightfully surprised at how they pace all the different things that you can do in the game super well done.

[00:45:58] Yeah I think you nailed it. Let's move into the impact on the industry and I'll start this discussion off by saying this at launch was an Xbox exclusive. It was an Xbox exclusive. Whoa.

[00:46:10] And I don't think Xbox has had a third person action adventure game like this that has been exclusive since this game. I could be wrong about that.

[00:46:19] But the reason I bring that up is because Sony is the king of the third person cinematic action adventure game right that's what they've built like their whole video game strategy off of which obviously now like it's very open and

[00:46:38] very openly stated by Sony and Sony leadership that they built the PS4 era on the back of super high budget high production cinematic third person action adventure games and you can name you know God of War Uncharted Horizon like all those all that stuff right. Yeah.

[00:47:03] Xbox has not had really their game in that space that's been like exclusive and granted this was a timed exclusive like really sense this game and I can't remember if Shadow was Xbox timed exclusive. I don't think it actually was.

[00:47:20] I think it was just Rise of the Tomb Raider Xbox 360 Xbox One release cross or cross generation release there. Yeah it looks like it was simultaneously PS4 and Xbox One September 2018. Yeah so it came out later on both when it went to Xbox One. Yeah OK.

[00:47:38] And I actually played this on an Xbox Series X I played this later but yeah Jake what's your take on has have the Tomb Raider games as this game in particular like had any sort of lasting influence.

[00:47:52] We look at kind of where Crystal Dynamics is now obviously they worked on the Avengers game after the after this one and then after kind of Shadow which was a complete failure and like a total flop.

[00:48:07] What's what's been sort of the lasting influence or like impact on the industry of this game.

[00:48:12] It's kind of funny because let's see I think right this is one of those IPs that's kind of been it's kind of had issues because of Embracer Group and their kind of implosion right.

[00:48:26] This yeah I want to say that this this series this reboot series was associated with Eidos Montreal which are they even around anymore. Yeah I don't know it's kind of weird.

[00:48:39] I feel like this IP right they had issues because they're associated with Embracer Group in some way I can't remember exactly what it was but anyway that's a bit of a tangent.

[00:48:49] It's it's kind of a shame because I first got interested in this playing this game after watching actually the Xbox showcase with with the perfect dark reveal.

[00:49:01] I was like oh my gosh I need to look at another Crystal Dynamics game and this is the one out of the trilogy when I was kind of asking around people said that this is this was the one to play.

[00:49:11] So I think hindsight is 2020 obviously because they made this game they made Shadow I think this game did pretty well.

[00:49:22] I was going to look up the sales real quick it I mean it did well enough that they made the sequel like Shadow of the Tomb Raider right right.

[00:49:28] And then after that they made the Avengers which was a complete flop like just a total flop but it's funny because if you played did you ever play the single player of Avengers Jake.

[00:49:41] No but people say that that's pretty good I think I bought it for like three bucks.

[00:49:45] So you can feel the shades of like Crystal Dynamics talent and kind of feel the shades of those Tomb Raider games and like the influence in that Avengers game like especially if you focused on like that single player.

[00:49:58] But it was part of that group of studios that got shoehorned into making a live service game that just like they couldn't like get it to work.

[00:50:06] And I just don't think they were equipped to do it they just didn't know how to do it like they knew how to make a game like this.

[00:50:11] Ironically they're helping they're now helping on Perfect Dark and they're working on a new Tomb Raider game another reboot which is being published by Amazon. Oh that's right.

[00:50:25] So that's where we are like we went through this phase where they made these great sort of single player action adventure games that were super well done.

[00:50:34] And then they're like K go make a live service game and I think that was maybe Embracer that obviously was kind of pushing that right and then that flopped and then now lo and behold they're going to be they're back to making Tomb Raider games again so we just went full circle.

[00:50:51] I mean I'm glad they're back to it and honestly playing through this game has got me super excited for Perfect Dark.

[00:50:59] I think Perfect Dark is going to play better than this just because it's got time and a massive budget with Xbox behind it but this game as we said at the beginning of this episode it holds up so freaking well.

[00:51:12] It would be hard pressed to imagine that this game is very impressive. Yeah it's visually impressive the gameplay feels really good like but it's still a nine year old game and that's awesome.

[00:51:24] So yeah impact on the industry a part of me is kind of like what games since this one have taken notes and I think you've kind of mentioned some of this Horizon Zero Dawn right making a bow feel as good as it does fall in order fall in order right fall in order and survivor take like a lot of the sort of this.

[00:51:46] It's just huge inspiration from these games and these games took huge inspiration from Uncharted and so they're sort of this circle of you know things going on there.

[00:51:56] Yeah so I feel like that this game in particular and we probably talked about the whole trilogy has had an impact which I think is really cool it also helps obviously that Tomb Raider as a franchise and Lara Croft as a person is you know they're gaming icons it's like gaming history right that's like I feel like a whole era.

[00:52:16] Let's see the first Tomb Raider game came out in 1996 yeah I was thinking like 90s gaming right like this is a huge icon and so that helps and I you know like I mentioned I remember playing man these two major games on PC like a billion years ago.

[00:52:35] And you know let's see yeah I remember playing Tomb Raider like one two and three on on PC. And just kind of be revolutionary at the time they were wild. Yeah no they totally were they're just remastered those and we released them as well.

[00:52:54] Yeah I was thinking about going back and playing about time you know my enemy. Yeah so this franchise is still going strong. Phoebe Waller Bridges Phoebe Waller Bridge the she had a show on prime.

[00:53:09] Right what's that the shows flee back flee back yes so she got super famous from that Amazon gave her I believe it was $200 million to make shows pretty she hasn't made any shows yet. Good for her man.

[00:53:27] Can you imagine like your show runner and say oh so how does that work do you get the money and then it's just like oh just make him when you're ready or like do you get like a little bit of the money it's like hey we'll give you the rest when you make a I don't know anyway she's making a Tomb Raider TV show right for for Amazon Prime anyway yeah so this franchise is still going strong there's still squeezing the juice out of saying and you know if these games are going to be

[00:53:44] like you can make a very exceptional like use of this IP like this is a strong IP that has a ton of potential and like you can get juice out of it I think this game is a shining example that.

[00:53:53] Yeah it's really fantastic it's also great example we've talked about this several times just like with the current industry issues of the

[00:54:00] going on how reboots and remakes are super successful right I mean we can complain about there not been a whole lot of creativity and just newness necessarily when with reboots obviously but I do feel like I think it's a great example that I've seen in the past.

[00:54:13] I know that we've talked about this a lot of times but it's not going to be a great example of the current industry issues that are going on how reboots and remakes are super successful right I mean we can complain about there not been a whole lot of creativity

[00:54:25] and just newness necessarily when with reboots obviously but I do feel like as somebody who had only played like the original old school games on PC and then jumped into this one I very much felt at home with Tomb Raider as as Lara Croftin how she's presented in this game.

[00:54:43] But in a reboot fashion you know just in with a fresh coat of paint and new gameplay mechanics etc.

[00:54:51] And it works I mean I think this is just a character that just works you know and so there's no need to try I don't know if it ain't broke don't fix it right I think for me I'm so curious about the story of getting crystal dynamics to do the Avengers game.

[00:55:06] And it does make me want to actually because I'm pretty sure about that game when it was like clearance three bucks it does make me want to go dip into the single player campaign some like man the studio obviously was pretty hot they were good at what they were doing why why have them switch it up you know.

[00:55:25] Yeah I don't know because money because money I mean that's the answer right but there's I just think there's a really interesting tension and push and pull between if a studio is really good at one thing why have them do something else but what happens when the studio is like OK well I want to we want to try something new you know and it's hard to find a I think the line between the pressure from outside like external pressure on making somebody do something new versus when people in on the inside want to do something new I think.

[00:55:52] Other examples that we've seen in this I mean prominently right Redfall we've talked to already too much about that but that's another example of a game where it's like OK when do the pressures work from where and yeah I don't know I'm kind of rambling at this point but I do think.

[00:56:07] No I know I have a legacy which is good. I hope that we can get back to I'll give credit where credit is due Arthur Gees who does the rebel FM podcast and wire cutter writer former IGN editor.

[00:56:22] He said like I hope we like he's like I hope gaming can get back to treating video games as products as and not business models. Oh OK.

[00:56:38] Which I told you I and I think I think it kind of feels like that we are going back to like the model that worked before which is you make a budget.

[00:56:50] And you figure out how to make a game within that budget with an expectation of a certain amount of profit and then you say OK this was good.

[00:56:58] And I think hopefully there's enough incentive that companies can just keep doing that and that we don't end up in the situation that I always joke about where there's just going to be four mega games left in 20 years.

[00:57:14] And every game just exists as a appendage from the mega game as like a minute you know like right which is basically what Fortnight's trying to do.

[00:57:23] It doesn't seem like that's going to happen. I think there's still enough and there's just enough incentive barely I think for these companies to continue to create like these interesting sort of one off products.

[00:57:35] And I think the lessons of the live service industry this most stark lesson most recently being Suicide Squad. Yeah. Which was incepted and created in that era where all companies were trying to figure out how do we get our foot in the live service pool.

[00:57:52] And I think they're taking a much harder look at those things as evidenced by like Naughty Dog obviously cancelling their last of us live service game.

[00:58:03] And but you know these things are still full steam ahead right no one's stopping the live service thing I just think they're being much more careful about I think they realize that it's actually incredibly hard to do that right.

[00:58:14] And so maybe there's actually a bit more predictability in the revenue by treating things as products as evidenced by Chris's dynamics making just they're just going back to what they do well they're making another two murder game. Yeah.

[00:58:26] Which will be a ton of fun like that's something I'm super looking forward to know because of this game. Yeah. I hope that what you're talking about kind of is the trend.

[00:58:35] It's interesting because Cameron and I we've talked about this before like what with deluxe editions and pushing like games game prices from like 70 bucks to try to get people to spend 100 bucks on a game or whatever it is.

[00:58:48] And I do feel like that we're finally kind of seeing some success and I was looking at this with rise of the Tomb Raider because I had like DLC and it had micro transactions in it.

[00:58:57] That I just yeah the old model is probably more predictable and probably just safer. And so why not go back to the old model.

[00:59:07] It seems to be able to make people much happier right and I'm thinking you know when we talk about Elden Ring that this is old model right. Base game DLC game ends right.

[00:59:18] I'm even thinking about like Alan Wake to I recently played the first batch of DLC there very old school in that way where it's like base game you know DLC and then eventually Alan to wake or Alan Wake to is just going to stop right.

[00:59:33] And then you're going to wait for the sequel or whatever the studio is going to do next. It just feels a lot safer and just a lot better.

[00:59:43] And with that ladies and gentlemen this has been another episode of the period bonus podcast talking Rise of the Tomb Raider. This is on PC PlayStation 4 Xbox available pretty much everywhere. I think it's like five bucks. Yeah, it's dirt cheap.

[01:00:00] It's always whenever there's a sale this game is on sale. If you haven't played this game this is a full blown triple A third person action venture like action RPG that is well well worth your time.

[01:00:14] If you somehow miss this like back in 2015 or the last 10 years my gosh 10 could grief. Yeah, go check this one out. This is one of my favorites like really up there for me really fantastic game. Yeah super fun to kind of go back and talk about this one.

[01:00:32] Go check it out. Please if you enjoy the podcast leave a review on your podcast platform of choice that's one of the best ways you could support us and help people find the show.

[01:00:43] You can also go on patreon.com slash period of cast you can join us for the next two weeks ladies and gentlemen two weeks left to join at the current current tears.

[01:00:59] We have the digital deluxe edition for five bucks a month which gets you Jake's indie impressions extended edition of a regular episodes and early access to our regular episodes. That's all going to change there's going to be way more stuff way more chunky beefy content.

[01:01:12] But if you sign up right now you will get grandfathered into the collectors edition which will be the top tier ultimate package of the patreon. So you will get that for five bucks a month in perpetuity in eternity you will be grandfathered into the new thing.

[01:01:29] But you've got to sign up in the next two weeks that's the only way it's going to happen so go do that go support us that really helps the show it helps us in all sorts of ways helps us pay for our podcast subscription helps us get games.

[01:01:42] So we can have more interesting things to talk about it helps us to upgrade our equipment helps us to do all sorts of stuff for podcasting really helps helps us out and is a great way to support the show.

[01:01:55] And you're going to want to trust me you're going to want to be in there we're going to make the official announcement two weeks from now of like what the new patreon is going to look like so get in there and join us.

[01:02:04] Finally you can jump in our discord link to that is in the podcast description. Come chat with us come chat video games with us all sorts of fun conversations happening in the discord. Thank you so much for listening and have a great night.