Final Fantasy VII Rebirth

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[00:00:10] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Pre-Order Bonus

[00:00:14] podcast. I'm one of your hosts Cameron Warren and I'm joined as always by Jacob

[00:00:20] Price. It's April 4th, 2024 and we're back to talk about video games. Jake, the

[00:00:29] knowledge that I was revealing on our last episode about the statistics in regards

[00:00:36] to playtime of video games. It was revealed to the wider internet. Yeah. And

[00:00:43] there were reactions to that. Has Fortnite ruined video games? Oh dude, what a

[00:00:50] question. What a question to start this out with.

[00:00:53] You know, it's like when I'm gonna bring this up. I'm gonna answer this question

[00:01:04] with an anecdote and I remember years ago. I remember when Steph Curry first comes

[00:01:07] onto the scene in basketball and everyone's talking about him sinking these

[00:01:13] really deep threes and it's incredible. It's taking the basketball world by

[00:01:17] storm and I was in like an wreck league playing basketball at the time and I

[00:01:27] was getting crazy frustrated because my teammates kept taking these deep three

[00:01:33] shots. And were they sinking them? Were they sinking them? No, they weren't. They

[00:01:40] were all over the place. It was a great way just to give a turnover. It

[00:01:45] might as well just been handing the ball to somebody on the other team and I

[00:01:49] was talking to a friend of mine at the time and I was like, dude, this guy,

[00:01:55] Steph Curry, is the worst thing that happened in basketball. And he said no,

[00:02:00] he's the worst thing that happened to bad basketball players. And I thought,

[00:02:06] you're right. Thank you for the correction. So is Fortnite the worst

[00:02:11] thing that happened to gaming? No. Interesting. I don't think it is. It's

[00:02:15] the worst thing to happen to gaming CEOs, I think. Where they're like, this is

[00:02:24] the new trend. We must chase it. We must get the same money that Fortnite

[00:02:29] is getting by doing what Epic is doing because the Fortnite battle royale

[00:02:35] experience, not too long ago, I was playing it much more frequently. It

[00:02:40] is still a fun time. I mean, it's one giant ad space at this point for every

[00:02:45] single franchise under the sun and that is annoying. Don't get me wrong. But

[00:02:50] is it a fun time? Yeah, it is a fun time. No build mode, by the way, just to

[00:02:55] clarify. Build mode sucks. It always has. Let's not pretend like that was

[00:02:59] ever fun. But no build mode. Unless you're a twitchy 12 year old. Which I

[00:03:03] no longer am. So to recap on my quick little rant here, I don't think

[00:03:10] it's super fair to point a finger at Fortnite for ruining everything or

[00:03:14] point a finger even at PUBG and say that they ruined everything. I think

[00:03:18] it's all the other people who saw this model, this unicorn viral trend and

[00:03:23] tried to copy it and that becoming the trend, that's where the fingers need

[00:03:27] to be pointed. You need to be pointing all your fingers at a lot of

[00:03:30] different people. Yeah, I mean, like we kind of talked about this,

[00:03:35] but those games basically just exist in their own world now. Like

[00:03:40] Fortnite is its own category at this point. It's a platform. And they

[00:03:45] are actively doing things to make themselves even more of a platform.

[00:03:51] They're stealing directly from Roblox playbook, which is the other mega

[00:03:56] game that nobody talks about in our spin. Nobody nobody. Nobody

[00:04:00] even says a word about Roblox, but it is the biggest. It's like bigger

[00:04:04] than Fortnite. I don't know if it's bigger. I don't know what the

[00:04:07] numbers are, but it's like it's up there. It's absolutely insanely

[00:04:11] hugely massive. Yeah. And Fortnite weirdly is taking a

[00:04:17] play from them. You could see if you actually open Fortnite that

[00:04:20] they literally have set it up as a platform. It's like a

[00:04:23] launcher for all of their custom experiences, which is what

[00:04:27] Roblox has been doing for years, except their engine is

[00:04:31] super jank. And you make these like super janky experiences where

[00:04:35] for now it's like, hey, check this out. We have Unreal Engine 5 with

[00:04:39] this insane creative suite of tools. Oh, and by the way, if

[00:04:42] you create in our ecosystem, you're gonna get paid like a lot

[00:04:45] of money. Yeah, if you can get a certain amount of users. And

[00:04:48] so now it's the battle royale game. But it's also a Lego

[00:04:53] game. It's also a racing game. It's also a music rhythm

[00:04:58] game. Oh, and by the way, it's this insane Unreal Engine 5

[00:05:03] creative suite where you can make any game you want. Oh, and by

[00:05:06] the way, they're releasing first person mode in the next couple

[00:05:09] months. So now it's like I could make like a I could make

[00:05:12] like a walking simulator adventure game inside of Fortnite

[00:05:15] and Unreal Engine 5, right? Those days are coming like

[00:05:17] really soon. Yeah, you're totally right. They've

[00:05:20] absolutely gone into sort of that platform creator space.

[00:05:25] I hate booting up Fortnite for that reason. And just looking

[00:05:29] at it, I'm like why am I looking up the Netflix menu right

[00:05:31] now? Do the U.S. I hate it. I absolutely hate it. But it's

[00:05:36] it's totally it's a it's an audience that like we don't

[00:05:39] understand. Like it's not as we don't understand that like is

[00:05:44] consuming endless TikToks and YouTube, their favorite

[00:05:48] YouTubers, and just playing whatever like the current hype

[00:05:52] thing is that they can talk about with their friends that's

[00:05:54] like viral on TikTok and like YouTube gamers. Right? Yeah. This

[00:06:01] is this kind of ties me into some thoughts that I've been

[00:06:03] having since the last episode that we had. And it's just

[00:06:06] that part of the market reality is that, you know, Cameron

[00:06:12] and I were like elder millennials. We are no longer

[00:06:17] the target audience for game studios, particularly Nintendo

[00:06:22] Sony and Xbox and their hardware. And they're looking at the

[00:06:27] reality of where younger generations are playing their

[00:06:31] games. And for the most part, they're asking to play games

[00:06:36] on a PC or on their phone. And we're in this really

[00:06:39] interesting space where with mobile devices where they're

[00:06:44] getting powerful, you can you can play Resident Evil 4

[00:06:47] remake, right? On iOS. You can Death Stranding, right? Might

[00:06:53] already be out on iOS. And so even though single player

[00:06:57] experiences, I mean, you know, 20 years ago when cell phones

[00:07:01] really started ticking off, you're playing Snake as your

[00:07:04] memorizing T9 texting shortcuts. Right? Like if you

[00:07:09] were savvy enough, somebody had Tetris somewhere, right? Or

[00:07:14] like some super janky bootleg of Pokemon Red would show up, you

[00:07:19] know, like, and that has just evolved so much. And I think part

[00:07:24] of the reality of the people who are super active in the

[00:07:27] gaming space. I mean, at least our compa... What's the

[00:07:31] word I'm looking for? At least our colleagues, the

[00:07:35] pre-order bonus colleagues, right? We're sort of at this

[00:07:37] age where there are other target demographics that

[00:07:40] these big companies are going after. And a big part of

[00:07:43] that is how do we expand our market onto phones, onto PCs,

[00:07:47] onto a cloud beyond the people who are buying the console

[00:07:51] hardware that sits under your TV?

[00:07:56] Yeah, that's what that's what Xbox is building their entire

[00:08:00] strategy around.

[00:08:01] Yeah, Xbox is taking that bet. And we've talked about this

[00:08:04] and I don't think we need to talk about it too much more.

[00:08:08] But Nintendo with the switch, their marketing pivot was

[00:08:13] a long time ago, they ducked out of the console wars. And

[00:08:16] they're like, okay, let's go. They kind of did the mobile

[00:08:20] thing before smartphones had caught up to them, right? Even

[00:08:23] the Wii U, right? To a certain degree, marketed some sort

[00:08:27] of, you know, you don't have to be playing on a TV, right?

[00:08:34] Right. And then the switch, you know, what a

[00:08:37] revelation that was. I think the part of the reason

[00:08:40] why the Switch is so popular is that it was able to hit the

[00:08:43] perfect moment when it released in 2017, where it still

[00:08:48] felt like it was a cut above the gaming experience on

[00:08:52] mobile, on tablets. Right. And so it was able to dominate

[00:08:55] this hardware space of being able to play on the go.

[00:08:59] And to this day, you know, that's one of the biggest

[00:09:02] selling points of Switch. So like my kids, for example,

[00:09:06] rarely play Switch docked because they would much

[00:09:09] rather have it in their hands and be able to sit and you

[00:09:12] know how kids are, they don't sit still. They're half the

[00:09:14] time they're balancing on their head, right? But you can do

[00:09:17] that with a Switch. You know, you can't really do that with

[00:09:19] a TV. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's I don't know. I'm gonna

[00:09:28] sound like a boomer when I say this, but the attention

[00:09:32] span is just like some I was listening to another podcast

[00:09:36] and somebody was talking about like their younger nephew

[00:09:39] and like they play games like Apex Fortnite Roblox, and he

[00:09:46] tried to get him to play like Spider-Man 2. Okay, yeah.

[00:09:50] And he ran into like a slightly somewhat puzzle there.

[00:09:56] He had to put like a little bit of effort to it and it was

[00:09:57] like immediate like drop the game. I think he was done.

[00:10:01] Like so the slightest amount of like pushback on like, hey,

[00:10:04] can you learn to play this game? It's like now, like I'm just

[00:10:06] go back to what I know how to play. And it's like Fortnite is

[00:10:10] like that comfort food of like, this is my game where I like

[00:10:13] hang out with my bros. I jump in. I got my squad. We get

[00:10:18] together. We boop around like who cares, right? It's like,

[00:10:22] they're not playing games for the experience of

[00:10:24] experiencing, I'm going to say experience like five times

[00:10:27] here. They're not playing games for the experience of

[00:10:30] having the experience of experiencing a game.

[00:10:35] Okay, following that, that sentences grammar. Where does

[00:10:38] that put us? Now it's interesting that you say that

[00:10:41] because like Fortnite is an interesting example in its

[00:10:44] battle royale where the idea is like, the premise is super

[00:10:47] simple. You find people, you kill them and you advance and

[00:10:50] you try to win. But Fortnite has become the super strange

[00:10:54] like the battle royale mode, a strange amalgamation of

[00:10:58] random PvE nuggets that you can do to unlock skins or

[00:11:03] specific guns or whatever. But it is so optional, right? To do

[00:11:09] any of that content. And so I wonder if because it is so

[00:11:13] optional, it feels like if you attempt to do it, there is no

[00:11:18] snag, right? Like there is no setback or there's no wall

[00:11:21] there as opposed to in a single player game when it's like,

[00:11:24] oh wait, in order to advance, I must accomplish this

[00:11:27] puzzle. It's not optional.

[00:11:29] Also imagine if like your first for I honestly think

[00:11:33] it's a question of and this is getting going to get

[00:11:36] boomerish a little bit, but it's a question of like gaming

[00:11:38] literacy, especially if the parents of an older Gen Y

[00:11:44] younger Gen Z like don't understand video games like

[00:11:48] they don't get it. And they're just like, what's their

[00:11:51] kid gonna play? They're gonna end up playing the thing

[00:11:53] that's like constantly in front of their face. It's like

[00:11:56] Fortnite and Roblox. Whereas like our kids are

[00:12:00] playing like a whole ton of things on Switch and like

[00:12:03] weird different games on Xbox and different experiences

[00:12:05] because we're like, hey, check this thing out. And we have

[00:12:08] the comp, you know, we have all those and we're going to

[00:12:10] offering it to them. Whereas like your average kid, his

[00:12:13] parents like maybe played Madden or like didn't game or

[00:12:16] whatever. They're just gonna end up playing, which is a

[00:12:19] vast majority of kids, you're gonna end up playing

[00:12:22] Fortnite Roblox Minecraft. And that's your entire

[00:12:26] experience of gaming. So anything outside of that breaks

[00:12:29] that mold is like, I don't like this. Like I'm not used to it.

[00:12:32] Like what is this? Like, it's like, you know, so anyway,

[00:12:35] yeah, I think that's probably a part of it. I just think

[00:12:37] that in those really popular experiences, there is just

[00:12:41] much less to snag on right like in Minecraft, especially if

[00:12:45] you boot up like creative mode, like what is there for you

[00:12:49] to really to hold you back to be a snag to

[00:12:53] they're designed that way right like they're designed to

[00:12:55] like constant dopamine hits the number constantly going

[00:12:59] up, you're constantly leveling your finishing quests like

[00:13:03] every three seconds right. It's like it's a slot machine.

[00:13:06] It's literally a gaming slot. I mean, that's definitely

[00:13:09] Fortnite. It's interesting because when you log on to

[00:13:11] Fortnite, you have I feel like 1000 different meters. And

[00:13:15] you at the end of every match, it's like, Oh, you hit this

[00:13:18] meter, you get this thing. Here's your xp. Oh look, you

[00:13:21] leveled up your battle pass, right? I definitely feel like

[00:13:24] that's the experience in Fortnite. But what I'm getting

[00:13:27] from this conversation is that what we really need to do is

[00:13:29] that force any kid that starts gaming to start with Dark

[00:13:33] Souls or at least like a Mario platformer, which is what my

[00:13:40] kids started with. Yeah, Mark. That's I mean, it's like

[00:13:46] Nintendo. Sorry, I'm interrupting.

[00:13:49] No, you're good. I that's what my kids started with my

[00:13:52] kids. Now, in fairness, we play Fortnite now sometimes. But

[00:13:57] to be honest, like that's not the game that they're the most

[00:13:59] interested in. Like my son cried for weeks so he could play

[00:14:04] Fox. Fox is great with kids. You know, Fox is it's like this

[00:14:10] puzzle game, right? Like this co-op doggy puzzle game. And

[00:14:13] I was like, Oh my goodness, dude, are you serious? Like

[00:14:15] we have so many other

[00:14:17] Anyway, Fox is great. No, I played that with one of my

[00:14:19] kids too. But yeah, it's in and we had already played it on

[00:14:23] Game Pass and beating it and he wanted to buy it again because

[00:14:27] he had had that like some memory ingrained when he's like three

[00:14:31] years old. I'm like, Oh, like buy it again on a new platform.

[00:14:35] Not just on Xbox again, because it's not. Oh, I see. Yeah,

[00:14:38] I see. Yeah, it's so fascinating because for

[00:14:42] example, like my kids when Breath of the Wild, when I got

[00:14:46] Breath of the Wild, which is a few years after it came out,

[00:14:50] they were pretty young and they weren't able to handle, you

[00:14:54] know, the two thumbsticks at all, right? But they were so

[00:15:00] interested by it. And now, now my kids can play Breath of

[00:15:05] the Wild. They do avoid combat for the most part. But I was

[00:15:09] actually thinking about this the other day. It's super

[00:15:11] fascinating. I think to watch my kids in Camineer,

[00:15:14] you're totally right. Our kids are in a slightly different

[00:15:16] position because they have these super gamer podcasting dads.

[00:15:21] And so they have these massive extensive libraries, you

[00:15:25] know, to choose from. But I was thinking about this the

[00:15:28] other day because I was looking at the play time for some

[00:15:29] of the games that my kids are really into right now. And

[00:15:31] that would be Goat Simulator 3. Dude, they love Goat

[00:15:35] Simulator 3. Apologies for that one. It's okay. It's

[00:15:39] definitely GTA for kids. And so when GTA 6 rolls around,

[00:15:42] they don't have to be a little cautious. But I know they're

[00:15:45] dad. What is this? Yeah, I know. I don't want to explain GTA

[00:15:50] Boob physics to my, you know, kids, but whatever. Goat

[00:15:55] Simulator 3, Stardew Valley, right now they're both really

[00:16:00] into two. By the way, sorry, I just have to say this.

[00:16:03] That's a good title for a podcast episode GTA Boob

[00:16:07] physics. This is a family podcast, I apologize. That was

[00:16:12] highly improbable. We said the four letter B word on here. Let's

[00:16:17] see. Goat Simulator 3, Stardew Valley, they're really into

[00:16:20] Legends of the Two's at the Kingdom right now. Pokemon and

[00:16:27] one of my kids is actually really into Super Mario Bros.

[00:16:29] Wonder plays quite a lot of that, right? But I do think

[00:16:34] it's interesting. My kids have kind of bounced off of

[00:16:37] Lego Fortnite. They kind of bounced off of Minecraft and I

[00:16:41] have a hard time discerning if that's because those were

[00:16:45] games that I wasn't super interested in so I didn't really

[00:16:47] have them installed or if it's like just a personal

[00:16:52] individual thing that they just simply weren't into that

[00:16:54] type of gameplay that was too open. But like my kids have

[00:16:58] like 40 hours in Goat Simulator 3 and they've

[00:17:02] accomplished like 20% of it because because what's fun

[00:17:06] for them is being an insane goat. Kid GTA dude. Yeah. The

[00:17:12] other is the other kid GTA game is Wobbly Life. Wobbly

[00:17:16] Life? Really? I've it's an indie it's an indie game. It's

[00:17:20] literally GTA for kids. GTA for the next episode

[00:17:24] everybody is going to be what games to introduce your

[00:17:28] kids to you know before you get them on GTA. It's not

[00:17:33] bad honestly. It's it's not bad. There's a lot of funny

[00:17:37] physics in it and

[00:17:41] yeah. Now my kids have beaten Mario Odyssey several

[00:17:47] times. That's probably their favorite game of all time.

[00:17:50] They love Astro Bot playroom on the PlayStation. Just

[00:17:55] absolutely obsessed with it. Yeah. And they really like

[00:18:01] Sackboy on the PlayStation too. So you know platformers Mario

[00:18:05] that's Mario wonder not as much Zelda like can't really get

[00:18:09] them interested in it to be honest. Oh interesting.

[00:18:12] Minecraft they're sort of interested in but they bounce

[00:18:14] off pretty quick. Yeah my kids are every now and then

[00:18:18] they're like oh dad could we can we install Minecraft

[00:18:20] and play it but it's pretty rare I feel like these

[00:18:23] days. It just doesn't satisfy them but that's

[00:18:26] so interesting that those games that you mentioned

[00:18:29] right because those are the games that we grew up which is

[00:18:31] which with which is like mascot based platformers. Right.

[00:18:37] Today mascots I just feel like they're not all that common.

[00:18:41] My kids know who Spyro is mainly because I really like Spyro

[00:18:45] and I'm sure that they would like if we reinstall that they go back to that

[00:18:48] but my kids were like into Crash Team Racing also.

[00:18:52] I don't know it's just it's just a strange time. I'm not sure how we

[00:18:55] change topics so much to talk about our kids gaming habits but I do think

[00:18:58] it's interesting that

[00:19:02] when it comes to like hardware production because this is some of the

[00:19:06] dumb discourse that we're seeing on social media related to

[00:19:10] all the big three really right now. It's like how how's the hardware going to

[00:19:14] be what's it going to look like who they're going to sell it to and I do

[00:19:17] think that you know there's a lot of gamers

[00:19:20] aren't simply not buying those consoles or they don't feel the need

[00:19:25] to because they're doing their gaming in

[00:19:27] different ways and this does come back to the stats that you brought up the last

[00:19:31] show that we did and the stats that kind of made its round again with that Kotaku

[00:19:35] article where it's like most people are

[00:19:39] spending almost all their gaming time in these top five

[00:19:44] biggest games ever.

[00:19:49] Yeah meanwhile I'm over here playing Boulder's Gate 3

[00:19:53] and let me just tell you that's a good video game. Game of the decade?

[00:20:02] And this is the other news is that that happened while I was on vacation

[00:20:07] that we haven't talked about and we know we're already 20 minutes in so I'll

[00:20:10] make this brief but

[00:20:13] Larian has announced that they started working on DLC for Boulder's Gate 3

[00:20:19] and they were like you know what our heart's not into this

[00:20:23] I said they just stopped

[00:20:26] and they're working on their next project

[00:20:30] and Sven Wink I still don't know how to say his last name. Every time man I swear I'm

[00:20:35] going to google it. We just need to look up a pronunciation guide. I gotta

[00:20:38] Google this guy's last name because I'm gonna talk about him for years

[00:20:40] because this guy is just awesome I just love this dude

[00:20:43] um he's like what we're making the scope dwarfs that of Boulder's Gate 3?

[00:20:48] No dude did he say that? Yeah I was like dude

[00:20:52] and then proceeds to have like I know they had a GDC panel where they were

[00:20:56] going through the stats again where it's um it has

[00:21:00] so Boulder's Gate 3 more dialogue than the all the Lord of the Rings books

[00:21:07] combined right. More cinematics than the entirety

[00:21:12] of Game of Thrones. I'm shaking my head by the way.

[00:21:15] And then just like dude how can what you're making next like dwarf the scope so

[00:21:21] this game is this coming out in 10 years and if so like good on you like you

[00:21:25] guys do what you want and you make it happen so I for one I think I'm

[00:21:31] obviously what I love more Boulder's Gate 3

[00:21:34] absolutely but I think they have the uh

[00:21:41] they've earned the right to just do what they want to do

[00:21:43] and to just move on to like hey here's what we're passionate about and most studios

[00:21:47] would be like hey we can make so much more cash like let's make our expansion

[00:21:51] and that's what you know most studios are gonna do and obviously I would have

[00:21:55] absolutely love that but hey if we get their next project sooner

[00:22:00] now a year sooner because they're starting on it now and

[00:22:04] you know they do what that studio does and they build off passion and he

[00:22:08] said something interesting in his quotes and you could read some of these

[00:22:11] he talked about like during his GDC award he got a given actual award speech

[00:22:17] at GDC and he just mentioned like that the studio you know it's built on

[00:22:24] putting their passion into things which is like you know so

[00:22:28] so awesome to see and to hear that and that's that's if that's the case like

[00:22:32] that's definitely the right decision like don't don't make the expansion

[00:22:36] make what you want to make and what you're passionate about and to be

[00:22:40] honest with you they finished to quote halo they

[00:22:43] finished the fight with boulders game three I mean they did it

[00:22:47] they absolutely did it they knocked out of the park that game is a complete

[00:22:50] video game and I can only imagine if I've worked on

[00:22:54] something for six years and made something like so elaborate

[00:22:59] and so exceptional that yeah I would absolutely want to move on

[00:23:02] and they deserve the right to move on because they made they did it I mean

[00:23:06] they absolutely did it yeah you can't help but be happy for a studio like Larry

[00:23:10] and that has been able to achieve being in that type of position

[00:23:14] where they could start DLC and say you know what our heart's not in this we

[00:23:17] just got to move on from this project that takes some serious stability

[00:23:23] you know financial and otherwise and work with your workforce and you need

[00:23:28] you need a lot of trust to be able to make kind of a decision like that

[00:23:31] which is I think lacking in a lot of studios in a lot of relationships between

[00:23:38] publishers and studios as well unfortunately and that thing is that's really just

[00:23:42] kind of gotten worse with the current state of the games industry

[00:23:46] just as we're kind of in the fallout in the wake of the pandemic hiring spree

[00:23:51] and we're in all these layoffs it's a shame but man it is so great to be

[00:23:55] able to hear a studio like Larry and be able to kind of have that flexibility

[00:23:59] that breathing space and also not just confidence of the developers about

[00:24:04] themselves in their studio but also to have the confidence of the players to be

[00:24:07] like you know what we had ballersgate 3 where we have it it's a fantastic game

[00:24:13] and yeah let's be excited about what comes in the future so that that I think

[00:24:17] is really cool and it's super rare and so that's worth celebrating

[00:24:23] it absolutely is and what's also worth celebrating

[00:24:26] is another video game another huge video game called Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth

[00:24:32] Jake and I have been playing the crap out of this video game for the past several weeks

[00:24:38] we are many many hours in both of us and it's and I don't even know if we finished the game

[00:24:43] Jake did you make it to the end I'm I am I got a couple more chapters to go

[00:24:48] I'm at like I know you're pretty close I am one really long gaming session from beating it

[00:24:54] like that's how close okay so we do this we don't always finish games when we talk about it so just

[00:25:00] know that caveat going in we're going to give our analysis without getting to the end

[00:25:04] I've heard some things about the end but we've played definitely played enough of this game to

[00:25:09] give a very solid analysis of our you know of our findings our breakdown on this on this title

[00:25:17] Jake how are we gonna do it oof we are gonna be talking about Final Fantasy 7

[00:25:22] Rebirth in four categories that's right four the first one we'll be talking about the narrative

[00:25:29] another reason that we sort of feel comfortable talking about Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth without

[00:25:33] having finished it is because in our episodes we really only cover the first 20 to 30 percent

[00:25:40] of a narrative anyway so we are relatively spoiler adverse now of course Final Fantasy 7

[00:25:46] has been out since you know the original game for many many many years and so those

[00:25:51] main plot points that do carry over into the remake trilogy that carry over into Rebirth all of that is

[00:25:56] fair game but the things that are different about Rebirth we won't really get into right and not in

[00:26:04] great detail anyway to spoil anybody who's still chugging along through the game just like us

[00:26:09] the second category will be the mechanics oh boy we got a whole lot to say about the

[00:26:13] mechanics here but essentially these are the different you know ways moment to moment

[00:26:17] that you are interacting with the game the different systems that are in place this is an

[00:26:21] RPG there are lots of systems to discuss we'll probably spend a bulk of this talking about combat

[00:26:27] third we'll be talking about the gameplay loop this is sort of the gameplay loop really sets

[00:26:32] the pacing of how somebody's going to play a game oftentimes a gameplay loop will help define

[00:26:36] a gaming session like if you're sitting down to play for an hour what is it that you'll be

[00:26:40] able to accomplish to make progress to really enjoy and to move forward in the game and

[00:26:45] then finally will you talk about the impact on the industry and so for this category we tend

[00:26:51] to speculate a little bit more but at the same time the Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth has been up for

[00:26:56] a while now and there's been a whole lot of conversation about it and kind of what it what

[00:27:01] it indicates is happening in the greater video game industry so we will be talking about that

[00:27:06] as well as we conclude the episode and so those are the four categories that we'll

[00:27:10] be discussing narrative mechanics gameplay loop and finally impact on the industry Final Fantasy 7

[00:27:17] Rebirth continues the story the epic saga Final Fantasy 7 begun with Remake which came out in

[00:27:28] 2019 which seems like a decade ago but is not that many years ago

[00:27:33] where we spend our time several many many hours in an extended version of the Midgar opening

[00:27:42] sequence that you play in the original Final Fantasy 7 extended over the course of about

[00:27:47] 25 hours I think a main campaign run through you get to the end spoilers you end up with

[00:27:53] in a big battle with Sephiroth you figure out that which does not happen in the original game

[00:27:59] and then you figure out that actually this new game is a sort of time thing there's a time there's

[00:28:05] a meta narrative going on about time travel where they are changing and tweaking the story of this

[00:28:12] game from the original game but actually telling you that they're doing that within the context

[00:28:17] of the game world with these like shadow soul thing people I can't what are they calling it

[00:28:23] the whispers super weird anyway so you do that and then it takes you to the second game which is

[00:28:29] rebirth and I'm going to spoil the beginning of the game but it's like in all the marketing it's

[00:28:37] like front and center is the fact that Zach who originally dies in the original game

[00:28:43] is still alive or is he and or is he and the story continues along with cloud Tifa Barrett

[00:28:56] Arith and they're they're leaving Midgar to go on an adventure to track down Sephiroth because

[00:29:03] Sephiroth's going to destroy the world because he's crazy yeah Remake definitely left us with

[00:29:09] this weird branching path and it made a really really big deal probably too much of a deal took

[00:29:15] too long to explain that okay by the way a bunch of weird stuff is going to happen that you're not

[00:29:20] used to and I think that's part of it because you know they understand you know the developers

[00:29:25] understand that people are let's see they're really protective of Final Fantasy 7 people

[00:29:31] be crazy and people are nuts right so they made a big deal out of it and it seemed to land

[00:29:36] I think pretty well at the end of remake and so rebirth yeah the story picks up the regular

[00:29:42] main timeline if you will as opposed to the alternative Zach fair timeline so that's

[00:29:47] how i'm going to distinguish those things in this episode but essentially the main timeline

[00:29:51] you start in the city of calm which is just outside of outside of Midgar and Barrett says

[00:30:00] to cloud you know okay tell us exactly what you know about Sephiroth and so I love this chapter one

[00:30:08] is basically the tutorial and it's a great open it's a fantastic opening and is the flashback

[00:30:14] from clouds perspective a cloud as soldier right his perspective as what went down on Mount Nibel

[00:30:23] Nibel why am I losing that word Nibelheim Mount Nibel Nibelheim my gosh i'm Nibel

[00:30:32] I accidentally gone to the trap of another thing we don't know how to pronounce

[00:30:36] a poll you know it's sometimes you say a word so many times over and over again to start

[00:30:40] sounding wrong I somehow just did that to myself anyway they relive that memory that experience

[00:30:50] and because this is cloud recounting to bear in everybody else essentially what happened

[00:30:55] and it's a super fantastic wonderful moment you as a player get a real sense of okay

[00:31:01] why does cloud have beef with Sephiroth why and how is it that Sephiroth went totally nuts

[00:31:07] and what Sephiroth's you know supposed motives are because really at this point in the game

[00:31:15] you have Shinra the electric company slash you know corporatocracy of Midgar

[00:31:23] that's one faction they have one plans they have one set of plans Sephiroth is his own

[00:31:27] set of plans he has X shoulder he has you know kind of left Shinra behind well in the dust

[00:31:34] and then you have cloud and crew and I just love how you get to go back and you get to

[00:31:39] relive those memories and if you've played the original Final Fantasy 7 you know what all

[00:31:44] of the literal plot holes like are in that story and it becomes fascinating to see I think if you

[00:31:50] were new to the story you're like okay finally we cloud for once just opens up and he talks a

[00:31:56] little bit about what's going on and why he is the way that he is and I just think that that was

[00:32:01] an awesome way to start an awesome tutorial in part because it's back to that more traditional

[00:32:07] linear level design and this is going to be one of the things that Cameron I talk quite a lot

[00:32:12] about the linear sections versus the open sections and it just kind of really eases you into what's

[00:32:17] happening in the story and what cloud and crew are going to be up to throughout the events of

[00:32:22] rebirth which is tracking down Sephiroth to stop Sephiroth from essentially destroying the planet

[00:32:27] or taking it over yeah you know it does a really good job to set the stage fantastic job of

[00:32:32] kind of continuing the story and like really filling in for me at least because I wasn't

[00:32:39] crazy into the lore and didn't watch all the movies and read every single thing for Final Fantasy 7

[00:32:45] the original even though I played that game three or four times and like beating it all the way through

[00:32:50] twice as a kid and then later as an adult like 10 years ago there's still things like I didn't

[00:32:55] get that this game like cleared up for me right it explains a lot of stuff right it gives a lot

[00:33:00] of context a lot of background that doesn't exist in the original game which I loved that

[00:33:04] and I think the best part of playing this game the best part is this is if you have the nostalgia

[00:33:09] of the original game and I think a nostalgia is a huge component of this game I do think it stands on

[00:33:13] its own if you've never played Final Fantasy 7 before but if you have and you have that nostalgia

[00:33:19] this game really delivers and fulfills on the vision that you had as a kid or as a young

[00:33:25] adult or whatever of like how you felt and the visuals that you saw in your mind playing

[00:33:30] that original like sprite 3d combo game which at times looked absolutely ugly as crap

[00:33:40] because it was at that awkward stage of are we 2d are we 3d yet and we're kind of and we're mixing

[00:33:46] them and it doesn't really it's it's really just bizarre looking at times when you really

[00:33:51] look back at it yeah but you imagine things in your mind and you filled in the gaps in your

[00:33:55] mind and this game fulfills the vision of what you imagined it looked like and kind of even goes

[00:34:02] above and beyond that in many ways and adding in all the kind of different story elements that fill

[00:34:10] things out in so many different ways like really adds to that yeah I absolutely agree and it's

[00:34:20] interesting because I've seen a little people some people talk about this a bit I mean rebirth

[00:34:26] does kind of suffer from the fact that it's the middle one of a trilogy right it doesn't it needs

[00:34:30] to set some things up and it does that well but there are not going to be any super definite

[00:34:36] conclusions you know to the ending of the game there will be some of course right but it's not

[00:34:42] the end of the story right we know that there was more to come afterwards and so when it comes

[00:34:47] to like the main overarching story of this game it is cloud and crew trying to track down Sephiroth

[00:34:57] and very early on you know there's a little bit of narrative tension because they're being chased by

[00:35:02] Shinra but once they kind of get out of Shinra's you know view they have so little to go off of

[00:35:11] you know it's the guys in the black robes who are presumably you know ex-soldier or soldiers whose

[00:35:19] cells have degraded so much that they are essentially husks of their former selves right

[00:35:26] follow them because they kind of bend to the will of Sephiroth and that is the bulk of what's

[00:35:33] happening I would say when it comes to the main story there's not much beyond that what is

[00:35:38] happening is character development and character relationships being formed and being strengthened

[00:35:44] I'm a really glad that they turned this into a mechanic right with you could deepen relationships

[00:35:49] with different people that are in your main party but yeah that's where the bulk of the

[00:35:55] narrative is and I think they do a wonderful job because as a kid or when you play the

[00:36:00] original game you in your mind are participating in emergent narrative kind of making up how

[00:36:05] these relationships are forming and I actually really appreciate how a lot of the relationships

[00:36:10] between characters are just kind of given structure some of the main relationships I would say

[00:36:16] were the ones between Eryth and Tifa between Barrett and and Yuffie I would even say

[00:36:22] red 13 in the crew kind of at large and then cloud struggling stumbling at every step to say

[00:36:30] anything remotely vulnerable or open about himself with everybody else in the crew and

[00:36:37] I think if you go in with the right expectation that this that rebirth is much more about the

[00:36:42] characters than it is the big plot points it becomes so much more interesting to to enjoy

[00:36:50] yeah that's what the that's what this whole game is about and it spends a lot of time

[00:36:55] zooming in on each of the characters exploring their backgrounds a little bit more sometimes a lot more

[00:37:02] unravelling kind of who they are and where they come from and why you know they kind of do what they

[00:37:07] do and as just a ton of I mean that is really this game like the bulk of this game and there's

[00:37:13] obviously high points in the pursuit of Sephiroth and running into Shinra in certain instances

[00:37:20] where you they're not really after you anymore and it explains a little bit around that but you

[00:37:26] kind of run into them and you get in their way because there's also the subtext of they're trying

[00:37:31] they're going to destroy the planet and you have to stop that from happening because they're

[00:37:36] stealing all the planet's resources with giant factories and so that's that's like a whole

[00:37:43] you know subtext here of that's happening and so like when you get a chance you take out some

[00:37:48] Shinra dudes when they get in your way right but they're not like that they're not the main baddie

[00:37:53] as you said and so in between that like it you're just you're just building character

[00:37:59] relationships as you said Jake spoiler but question did you get Tifa for the gold saucer

[00:38:07] oh oh yeah yeah you gotta make sure that that happens oh you have to work hard

[00:38:14] at one point I was really worried I was like oh my gosh I have another party member it was

[00:38:20] Arith and don't get me wrong Arith is great but that's just not whose side I'm on I know

[00:38:26] it's been a contest it's all about it's all about all we're team Tifa over here so funny enough in

[00:38:32] the original game I was all about Arith oh but then once I learned I was like oh it's about

[00:38:39] once you learned there was an education that happened and then you changed your on this

[00:38:46] yes so like Jake said there's a whole mechanic around like relationships which happen like during

[00:38:52] side quests and conversation options where you can increase your relationship with people

[00:38:57] and then there's two instances that the game offers of payoffs for who you have the best

[00:39:02] relationship with I think I'm on my way unfortunately I'm very very close to this

[00:39:09] I have like everybody really high and so I think what happens is like you end up going by yourself

[00:39:14] if that happens so I think I'm gonna have to like piss some people off let's see I had it was

[00:39:21] pretty close to a tie because there are two date options and then I went back and I did side

[00:39:25] quests with Tifa to make sure that hers was the highest and then my second time around going

[00:39:30] back to the gold saucer I was just pretty confident that mine was already because it indicates you

[00:39:37] know the meter doesn't show you there's like different ticks in the meter of what your

[00:39:42] relationship was is with somebody and I had several people who are in like the second to highest

[00:39:47] tick before being like maxed out on relationship but I was still confident because I always use

[00:39:52] Tifa in battle and when you do like synergy abilities with them that helps raise you

[00:39:58] know the relationship status with them and I always use the power cleave ability

[00:40:04] I think that's the one I think that's what's called with Tifa anyway so yeah you definitely

[00:40:08] have to make sure you have to do side quests if you want the payoff and those dates to be what they

[00:40:15] are last thing I want to say on narrative is yeah I think just like an overall evaluation of it

[00:40:24] like Jake said it's the middle of a story and so I think what happens because it's the middle is

[00:40:34] there's a lot of exposition which isn't necessarily bad but sometimes because it's the middle and

[00:40:42] like inherently it's hard to have a beginning middle and end in the middle of a three part

[00:40:49] thing you know or maybe it's not hard but I think it is hard in video games I don't know I'm looking

[00:40:55] at Empire Strikes Back that has a pretty good beginning you know that has a pretty good example

[00:41:01] I feel like yes and that's like the probably the preeminent example of like yeah anyway

[00:41:09] I think it is a pretty good job and then there are parts where I do feel like it gets bogged

[00:41:14] down and they do a little bit too much and it gets like a little bit too long winded

[00:41:19] where you kind of want things to move towards like okay let's like move things forward and

[00:41:25] let's have like serious things happen instead of just learning more backstory about people even

[00:41:30] though I really like these people yeah and I like learning about their backstory I've been doing it

[00:41:36] for like 40 hours so can we see something right which people can point about movies being long

[00:41:43] when you do that in a video game and it's 40 hours and you're spending several hours with specific

[00:41:49] characters learning deeply kind of about their backgrounds it just yeah it can just feel like

[00:41:55] a teeny bit of a slog yeah um sometimes not all the time because it it's so well presented and

[00:42:02] it's you know does so many things amazingly well but you do feel that I at least felt that a

[00:42:07] little bit yeah I agree for the most part I think that there are really good history lessons about

[00:42:15] the planet that you're on about the different political factions and the different continents

[00:42:21] and the different people that you interact with um if so for example when you get to the

[00:42:28] Corel region and you are working your way towards Barrett's hometown where he's from

[00:42:33] uh you go through a Shinra reactor that has also been broken it's broken down it's exploded and

[00:42:42] you meet a weapon and I remember being really confused for some reason about what weapons

[00:42:50] were and why they were called that and playing the original game and as you kind of navigate

[00:42:56] that section of the the that game of that game of that chapter you get great sort of history on what

[00:43:05] happened to the reactor why the reactors that way what a weapon is and kind of how you're supposed

[00:43:09] to navigate and why Barrett is so familiar with this area and you get more of his background

[00:43:14] as you kind of go on but I just felt like they did a really good job of giving you the history

[00:43:19] doing some world building because you were out of Medgar and now you are going to many

[00:43:24] different regions and you're going to various continents you know and you kind of need to be

[00:43:28] situated historically on what's happening on the planet I think that's really good a few other things

[00:43:34] that I liked is I loved the relationship that was built that um is building between Tifa and Arith

[00:43:41] um they have cloud you know not exactly a sharpest tool in the shed but every now and then

[00:43:48] he's walking by and you catch snippets of a conversation that they are having together

[00:43:53] kind of about cloud but sort of about each other and you I get the real sense that like a really solid

[00:44:00] relationship like friendship is built between them that they develop a lot of trust between them

[00:44:06] I don't want to get into too much detail here but about let's see chapters nine and ten of the

[00:44:12] game I thought there was some really really cool moments where Tifa and Arith are asking questions

[00:44:20] to cloud about Zach and um if you you wouldn't really know this but the reason why Zach Fair is

[00:44:27] important is because in the prequel to this game in Final Fantasy 7 Crisis Core I mean it's centered

[00:44:33] on Zach Fair and Zach and Arith form a romantic relationship they refer to themselves as dating

[00:44:40] especially in in rebirth they do and um Arith is is distraught and she's a little heartbroken

[00:44:48] and she has conflicting feelings because she has no idea what happened to Zach but here's this guy

[00:44:55] cloud who reminds her an awful lot of Zach for reasons that are kind of obvious and so there

[00:45:01] are questions about like okay does cloud know Zach they're both soldier they're both serving about

[00:45:07] the same time like what do they know about each other and I felt like in chapter nine and ten

[00:45:11] they explore that and they kind of give more depth to that and they start broaching sort of

[00:45:17] some of those really difficult questions for you know emotionally charged questions for people

[00:45:22] like Arith and I just thought moments like that really really really worked for me really liked

[00:45:27] them um I know some people are mixed on the Wu Tai stuff but I felt like okay we have better

[00:45:33] understanding of Yuffie we have a just a better understanding of these characters that I appreciated

[00:45:37] yeah my only other comment is I think the the voice acting delivery for cloud and for Arith

[00:45:45] for me just falls flat like a little bit too often I love cloud's voice acting camera and I

[00:45:51] will just have to disagree here I not all the time sometimes it's fine and it works and I totally

[00:46:00] get like totally get the direction that he got was to be yeah and I get that I totally get that

[00:46:07] it's just sometimes like I don't know I just need a little bit more I don't know if it's

[00:46:12] when I say more it's not like necessarily like more emotion because I get that's not

[00:46:16] clouds character and that's who they're trying to reflect but it just makes cloud become one of

[00:46:22] the least interesting characters in the game I mean yeah I definitely want to grab cloud by

[00:46:29] the lapels and shake them yeah right where you and maybe and maybe some of it is that where

[00:46:34] you're just like I'm just like frustrated with this dude just like dude wake up right but

[00:46:39] maybe that's the whole point sometimes though he's like hey guys how you doing right yeah okay

[00:46:45] okay I could see that it just there's like some of those moments I'm like dude just like the voice

[00:46:50] actor just I just needed a little bit more familiar a little bit more nuance or feather

[00:46:56] in the delivery of that really dull boring line which is meant to be that way but sometimes

[00:47:02] it comes off as like you're phoning it in not that you were reflecting like an error of

[00:47:09] emotion but maybe emotionless is what he was asked to deliver I don't know that would be my assumption

[00:47:14] but I think we'll just have to disagree a little bit here but camera before we move on

[00:47:19] I have to ask you this one question has your opinion towards any of the main party members

[00:47:25] changed after seeing them in rebirth versus the original game

[00:47:30] I mean Yuffie obviously for obvious reasons she's not as annoying

[00:47:37] like she's still annoying but like not as annoying it's and she's really good in combat dude her

[00:47:42] combat is amazing like the ninjutsu stuff which we'll talk about in a sec uh yeah and I also like

[00:47:52] Tifa is just like a dope character and she's like probably do we have the most attractive video

[00:47:58] game characters should we have that ranking we don't she's got to be up there right I think she is

[00:48:04] like she's in like the top three yeah easily easily I mean you know it's a it's a 3d model but

[00:48:12] it's a good one but it's a good one oh that's hilarious um no but it's not it's not just

[00:48:18] like it's isn't like the like personality and history and background and like all that

[00:48:26] that's the combination of everything right that's what it is yeah I agree I feel like probably one

[00:48:32] of the best things about Tifa and rebirth is that she is the most tactful and like emotionally aware

[00:48:39] character on the squad like she knows cloud is tripping and he's got some serious issues

[00:48:46] that he's not willing to talk through but she's always super tactful and aware of how to handle

[00:48:52] when he is bugging out which there's this actually one boss fight that I was screaming at the tv not

[00:48:59] literally but in my mind I was because like oh my gosh cloud I know what you're talking about and I thought

[00:49:04] her reaction to that was like not sufficiently correct correct that I think yeah that's that

[00:49:09] was a miss there for me that was probably the one miss uh probably the biggest maybe miss I think

[00:49:15] when it comes to character development because I was like I cannot believe that this was handled

[00:49:19] is tactful and emotionally aware of she is it's okay to be pissed off also right um yeah absolutely

[00:49:28] I would I also agree on Yuffie she is still annoying but it is so much better contextualized why she

[00:49:35] is the way that she is and one of my favorite things is probably her and Barrett's back and

[00:49:41] forth Barrett is very much like imagine like a big age gap between siblings in a family and the oldest

[00:49:50] sibling to the very youngest sibling just has zero hoots to give and it's just like Barrett like very

[00:49:58] often it's just like Yuffie just shut up and Yuffie will just sit there and let you know like

[00:50:04] clench her fist and be mad about it but at the same time there is a moment um I want to say

[00:50:10] around chapter five or six where Yuffie kind of wants to back up Barrett and and just kind of season

[00:50:17] injustice and responds in his favor to defend him and in that moment too I was like you know what

[00:50:23] she very much feels like an adolescent who's extremely capable but not necessarily um

[00:50:32] keeping track of other people's needs and so I just felt like their dynamic for example

[00:50:36] was was super improved and then finally I'll say obviously I can say a lot about narrative here in

[00:50:40] the characters um and finally I think the the many moments that that red 13 is just like by the way

[00:50:48] please don't just treat me like a dog I thought those were all well done yeah there's so many

[00:50:56] like subtle moments that are just make it super fun right like that's just they're just there's

[00:51:01] a lot of fun they have a lot of fun with it and they have a lot of nuance and like

[00:51:05] interactions like Tief and Arith you know let's go talk about boys and like you know and uh like

[00:51:14] clouds interactions with red 13 and like the whole card battling thing on that was great only yacht

[00:51:20] when like red 13 gets you know and like all these just sort of little mini interactions

[00:51:25] and then the side quests with each of the characters and it all just accumulates

[00:51:29] into overall so it's not perfect but it's just really solid it just does so many things

[00:51:36] really well but it is the middle right but anyway yeah let's move on to mechanics because we're

[00:51:41] already so long but this is there's a lot of games so this is going to be a longer episode

[00:51:45] there's so much game here and especially oh my goodness the mechanics holy cow um predominantly

[00:51:53] so we'll talk about the other mechanics in the game but predominantly this is a game about

[00:51:57] combat yes right it's about fighting it takes the system the amazing combat system which we talk

[00:52:02] about all the time on this show from Final Fantasy 7 remake and ramps it up a couple notches

[00:52:11] so you still have three party characters that you're controlling at any given time

[00:52:16] and what they've added the major thing that they've added they still have like the the

[00:52:21] action turn-based mix where you're doing an active pause to select abilities which you can use after

[00:52:28] you've charged up atb but then what they've added now is these synergy techniques so you have synergy

[00:52:37] abilities which you can use at like any given time which you unlock through a skill tree like a

[00:52:43] party skill tree that unlocks abilities for all the characters um and then you can use those and

[00:52:53] what they'll be is like uh you know if cloud and barrett can like throw these sort of magic

[00:52:59] bullets at enemies or like tifa can launch or cloud can launch tifa in the air with his sword

[00:53:05] and then she can fly up in the air and then you can use that to use to combo with one of tifa's

[00:53:10] like ground pound attacks from the air which you can use from the air and so you have these

[00:53:15] various ways now that you can use uh these synergies and if you build that up you'll get

[00:53:22] like a synergy ability that's like a special ability that you can use that's a super powerful

[00:53:28] ability that will give you a bonus whether that's extended stagger or getting a third atb bar

[00:53:37] or just you know making stagger go super high like a couple different things that you can do

[00:53:44] and so they've added this whole other component and i just i freaking love this combat this it's

[00:53:50] so good it's so good it's still at its core rock paper scissors combat right but it but it's mixed

[00:53:58] with all the synergies of like okay how do i use different characters uh how do i combine

[00:54:06] you know different types of attacks how do i time uh you know using power attacks powerful attacks

[00:54:14] on enemies and use the right materia to take you know to stagger them uh or pressure them and then

[00:54:22] stagger them and like do that all in sync and just all of that melts together and just amazingly

[00:54:28] well this is like still one of the best combat systems in video games i freaking love it it

[00:54:33] is remarkable to me because the depth and the width of the skill trees the abilities the build crafting

[00:54:41] is immense you can go deep you can go far and you can really between the different like primary

[00:54:48] weapons you select the different materia that you have as you get better uh armor the the

[00:54:53] what do they call the bracers right as you get better bracers um and you can equip more materia

[00:54:59] and your as your stats improve there is a whole lot that you can do to fine tune how you want to play

[00:55:07] each of these characters and uh and so for example like in my mind i have okay cloud is my all-rounder

[00:55:14] tifa is my stagger uh barrett is my stagger slash tank erith is my support slash magic

[00:55:22] bangle bangle thank you thank you um yes file fancy seven exclusive term there okay there you go

[00:55:29] bangle um you know i just have them all sort of set up like okay this is how i want to use them and

[00:55:35] then i'll mix and match them the way that i sort of want to or the play style that works best for me

[00:55:40] but also if you just want to button mash square and then use your abilities every now and then

[00:55:45] you can do that you know and so i feel like the the combat is super fun it's really engaging

[00:55:51] there's a whole lot of different ways that you can kind of approach different scenarios and

[00:55:54] different synergies between players but also if you kind of just want to turn off your brain

[00:55:58] and grind for a little bit or you want to turn off your brain and just kind of get through some

[00:56:01] encounters that's also possible it accommodates most types of players i would say in that regard

[00:56:09] you you absolutely can't do that i'm playing on dynamic and i will say that they're a

[00:56:16] i breeze through like the first half of the game and then i started to hit some bosses that like

[00:56:23] ratcheted up the difficulty a lot where the game was basically like hey we've let you kind of

[00:56:30] feel like you're good at this game for a long time and now we're going to show you what's up

[00:56:34] and it forced me which i appreciated like i've learned to kind of appreciate that in games

[00:56:40] it was like there's a specific fight in gungaga for example yeah

[00:56:46] which we could talk about gungaga in a minute oh my goodness um there's a specific fight there that

[00:56:53] that was i actually ended up i actually wiped three times before i like figured out how to do

[00:56:58] and then once i kind of figured it out it was like okay it's fine but it the game did push me

[00:57:02] about limit at times and i guess to clarify on my end i'm playing on normal difficulty um

[00:57:07] and i think i'm playing on just normal not normal classic i can't remember it's one of those

[00:57:13] two difficulties i haven't had to touch it um yet but i have similarly run into some bottlenecks or

[00:57:19] some bosses where it's like hold up hold up i need to rethink who i'm bringing into this battle

[00:57:23] and how i'm using their abilities and i also agree i like having those checkpoints in this game

[00:57:28] one because it's not like every single boss i'm just smashing my head into a wall

[00:57:33] but at the same time the game like kind of expects you to get used to its systems and its systems are

[00:57:38] not friendly i would say to to figure out um and i think typically i would complain that this is

[00:57:48] too much happening at once because you have the skill trees for all of the synergies and

[00:57:53] which is kind of combined with some individual stats that you can boost and then you have

[00:58:00] your weapon upgrades which took me way too long to figure out but essentially

[00:58:05] your level you have like a weapon level that increases and then it gives you a specific

[00:58:10] currency that you can spend on that one specific skill tree that also has your synergy abilities

[00:58:20] not well explained at all i'll be honest um it was extremely helpful that i played remake

[00:58:25] before i played this yeah i think they so you your weapon you can pick you can either pick the skills

[00:58:35] like the weapon skills which are basically like stat modifiers for attack defense magic yeah you

[00:58:42] can pick them if you want or you can tell the game to automatically do it and prioritize

[00:58:47] either balanced attack defense and so on which i did it automated because i was like yeah this is

[00:58:55] one system too far that i don't want to like dive deep into so i just automated it but i think

[00:59:00] that's a great way to do that with the weapons just just kind of pick the play style for that

[00:59:04] character and then just pick the automated upgrades that makes sense yeah it's it's

[00:59:11] fascinating like the comment it is like it's it's totally unique as well i think right because

[00:59:15] you have three characters that's at a time you control you have the atb meter which you

[00:59:21] build up with basic attacks your goal is at any time is really to pressure and then stagger the enemy

[00:59:29] and then like unload on damage like during the stagger phase which is really satisfying by the

[00:59:34] way like getting a stagger oh my gosh one of the most satisfying combat things just like when

[00:59:39] you get that stagger every time it just feels great this is like they nailed that um but yeah

[00:59:46] it's it's a lot it's a lot to manage especially in like a challenging combat encounter when you're

[00:59:51] having to deal with okay i have defensive spells i have a i have elemental spells i have debuff spells

[00:59:59] materia but i can equip any of those material on any of my characters right so i can't isolate

[01:00:05] my thinking to just one character who has certain spells i have to think okay can this character

[01:00:10] use this materia in this way what are they good at do they have a higher attack higher magic

[01:00:15] attack what is this enemy uh what is this enemy um week two you're using the accessibility and basically

[01:00:25] every encounter to like look at the weaknesses so this is a every combat encounter you're gonna

[01:00:30] pop the accessibility look at the weaknesses and then figure out your strategy from there

[01:00:35] and then you're gonna and a lot of times it's it's pretty easy right oh there's susceptible

[01:00:39] to fire okay i'm gonna cast firah throw the fireball they're immediately pressured or staggered

[01:00:45] and then you just wail on them and you're gonna go some enemies though like they don't go that easy

[01:00:51] especially the bosses and then you have to think about dodging you have to think about blocking

[01:00:55] blocking is huge in this way bigger than you think it would be yes blocking is absolutely huge if

[01:01:00] you don't block correctly and you can actually invincible block where if you perfect parry

[01:01:08] you take no damage and so you have to factor that into your strategy especially on higher

[01:01:13] difficulties and harder enemies and for um certain certain of the characters perfect blocking and

[01:01:20] just blocking in general will build your atb meter and actually build like a ability meter like

[01:01:24] red 13 when he blocks he builds an ability so you you can see just me talking through it like

[01:01:30] so many possibilities it gets complicated it gets extremely complicated and i do not think

[01:01:35] it does a good job of introducing you to those systems so familiarity with final fantasy 7 remake

[01:01:41] which is somehow simpler than rebirth i think is almost required for a lot of things but the moment

[01:01:50] to moment combat is so much fun and i think that's what really shines and what i think is nice

[01:01:56] about this game rebirth is despite how complex the systems are the game is long enough and

[01:02:02] there are so many combat encounters that trial and error actually doesn't feel too painful when

[01:02:09] trying to figure out how you want to approach different combat scenarios i agree with camry

[01:02:14] though every time you come up to a new enemy you are using the assess ability i just have

[01:02:20] it equipped on cloud because cloud is in like you know 95 percent of all combat scenarios

[01:02:25] and it's just like okay i'm going to start this cloud i'm going to build up you know atb

[01:02:29] i'm going to utilize the assess and then from there i'm going to figure out what it is that i can do

[01:02:35] something that i actually really enjoyed and we're going to branch away from the combat mechanics in

[01:02:40] a second here but you play you have three active party members but the other party members are

[01:02:47] passive and so they're just kind of at the edge of the arena like if barrett's out there he's

[01:02:52] going to fire shots in there like and they'll take kind of like potshots every now and then and

[01:02:56] it feels like they're contributing the biggest way they actually do contribute is if you are in a

[01:03:02] dire situation and let's say there are two party members who are unconscious and you're down to one

[01:03:08] they have it's called like the back end or back row ability essentially you can trigger a synergy

[01:03:14] ability with whatever character still out on the field with one of the passive players

[01:03:20] and it just allows for you to have kind of like this this moment of breathing space

[01:03:27] in the middle of a really tough fight to just get in there maybe like some of the combat encounters

[01:03:32] i felt like i was getting overwhelmed by like there'd be six to eight enemies and they all

[01:03:36] like to stagger and i'm like crap if i could just get some of these knocked out and then

[01:03:41] you have this kind of back end ability come in you take out the two and then you regain

[01:03:46] control over the battlefield you resident people and you can keep going on and so i liked

[01:03:51] that mechanic quite a lot because when i needed the extra help i could get the extra help and i

[01:03:57] would restart fights much less often yeah and that's another layer of complexity because

[01:04:02] you can actually equip purple materia that auto materia that you have to have equipped for your

[01:04:12] other characters that you're not controlling to use their abilities

[01:04:16] and if you have it equipped like they'll use their abilities without you telling them to

[01:04:21] normally you have to switch between and so then there's like this is where that's all

[01:04:25] like the turn based strategy build crafting stuff but then there's like the action skill component

[01:04:30] which is the blocking the dodging the switching characters the timing like your attacks

[01:04:37] it's just it's masterfully this is a masterful combat system like the fact somebody created

[01:04:41] this is it's wild how much is like built into it i yeah i i can't stop saying it's praises

[01:04:48] and that brings us to my goodness there is so much gaming because they have that that whole

[01:04:54] combat system that's just insane and then they have literally like 900 mini games oh my gosh

[01:05:02] that are that some of which which we'll talk about queens blood in a second my goodness

[01:05:08] fleshed out like you wouldn't believe yeah like full games within this game queen's blood being the

[01:05:15] preeminent example of a really really solid in fact like amazing card game probably the best

[01:05:23] card game one of the best card games i personally ever but i freaking love it and if they don't

[01:05:28] release a standalone what are we doing if they do not release a standalone from mobile of queens

[01:05:32] blood they are not paying attention at all they're not they're not even putting effort they don't care

[01:05:39] they do not care because queens blood has taken i've seen this is almost embarrassing on social

[01:05:47] media i have spent time out of my day looking at people's threads of their windscreens and take

[01:05:54] in and there's whole conversations about like ooh what cards were you using there and in the

[01:06:01] game i spend whenever there is a new queens blood card available a card pack that is the first thing

[01:06:07] i'll spend i'll be down to my last gill and i'll have to decide am i buying potions or am i buying

[01:06:14] queens blood cards and it is queens bloods card every time and they do a good job of like when

[01:06:22] you every single town that you go to there's side quests and there's actually an overarching

[01:06:27] quest tied to queens blood with like a mystery behind it and every time you defeat a new enemy

[01:06:33] it like reveals a little bit more to it and there's like these unique personalities that you fight

[01:06:39] and it's so good yeah it's just so much fun it's just a great like grid based card game

[01:06:47] that's like pretty easy to understand yeah they use this like final fantasy seven characters

[01:06:52] and weird choke bows and like monsters and crap and it dude it's so good it's so good it's crazy

[01:06:59] that on top of everything that we just talked about there's this insane card game in the

[01:07:03] scam that's just so good and on top of that so many other mini mini games i don't even know

[01:07:12] where to begin to talk it's maybe not even worth talking about like all of them uh some personal

[01:07:18] highlight maybe that's what i'll do personal highlights for me mini games i think chocobo racing

[01:07:24] way more fleshed out than i could have possibly imagined absolutely i mean like you're talking

[01:07:30] like mario kart level near mario kart level like complexity here um there's a full on like

[01:07:41] galaga style like strafing shooter in golden saucer yeah there is a punch out mini game i didn't

[01:07:52] like that one but this is not which kind of sucked but the but i was like this is like punch out

[01:07:59] they're trying to punch out it was cool that was there i agree um i can't even think of the other

[01:08:06] ones jake what were your i mean chocobo racing was probably my favorite one um in part because uh

[01:08:14] my gosh a whole other system in there they have like in the open hub areas there's a different

[01:08:21] a bunch of different quests that you do and we'll get into that more detail when we talk about

[01:08:24] gameplay loop but essentially you can find these like chocobo bus stations these chocobo stations

[01:08:31] and if you restore them you get a golden plume which at first i was like why am i collecting these

[01:08:39] but as you go to different chocobo stables you can buy different gear for chocobo and that gear

[01:08:47] each of it corresponds to a bunch of different stats so if you equip it different gear on your

[01:08:53] chocobo for chocobo racing you're like oh my gosh i can actually kind of modify how i'm

[01:08:59] gonna run this race and so to me that's when i realized that i could buy gear and that it had

[01:09:07] stats and it would impact how i would perform in chocobo races i kind of lost my mind i was like

[01:09:14] all right i guess i guess i could spend another four hours doing this you know you told i mean

[01:09:20] you you could you could like run the chocobo circuit like it's yeah it's crazy on the flip side

[01:09:30] there's a lot of crap minigames here as well i mean basically any stealth related minigame in this

[01:09:37] game is an absolute nightmare it is so yeah grinds my gears to have the highest of highs in this

[01:09:44] game and then to have those stealth minigames you're just like you know what whoever whichever developer

[01:09:51] and game designer who has put on the stealth minigames should be fired from swery unix they were mad

[01:09:58] they were not fun they were not fun and the other one i didn't like was gears and gambit

[01:10:06] it and the moogle minigame oh just dude the stuff of nightmares to be honest you know what

[01:10:13] i have i think i've completed all but one moogle dude i don't know how i kept playing this game i have

[01:10:22] put listen and i think that sounds worse than i mean it to i really really really like this game

[01:10:28] this game like cambertide has some incredibly high like high highs right it's got some low lows

[01:10:34] and we're gonna get to that in gameplay loop especially but um the moogle stuff dude it just

[01:10:41] got annoying at some point and i'm like ah dude but here i am doing all of it and i think part of that

[01:10:47] is because there's relatively good incentivization to kind of do these things but i do want to touch

[01:10:52] on another mechanic point because mentally i feel myself going into gameplay loop the final one is

[01:10:57] that this game has crafting and i know crafting can be a little bit divisive on the whole

[01:11:05] i liked the crafting in this game because it was entirely like 95 optional and that

[01:11:14] yeah it didn't bother me which usually crafting can bother me and i was like uh kind of you know

[01:11:19] you level it up and yeah nearly everything you could get in the different crafting you could buy

[01:11:26] with gill there were a few things that i think were worth going out of your way for and that

[01:11:31] was when you got crafting recipes to create like enhanced bangles um i also i appreciated those i chased

[01:11:37] after those if you defeated some of the bosses and some of the side quest things they would might drop

[01:11:44] like a rare material that you can use to create cool accessories or to also just like further

[01:11:51] enhance gear and so i felt like there that was the best incentive for crafting was like you can

[01:11:56] unlock some really really cool recipes um i won't say which one because i got all this stuff pretty

[01:12:02] late into the game but i was i unlocked a really cool extremely useful accessory i have like i think

[01:12:08] maybe four or five useful ones that i got because i went out of my way to get the recipes

[01:12:12] and to defeat the bosses associated with those recipes in order to unlock them

[01:12:16] so the crafting listen it is straightforward i think it i think if it were more required it

[01:12:23] would become tedious quickly but because it is so optional like we were talking about the beginning

[01:12:28] of episode i didn't feel any snags and most of the time it was a boon and a plus to the activities

[01:12:34] that i was already doing the final thing i'll mention is the rhythm mini game uh didn't love

[01:12:43] but it's definitely a lot better than the original game oh my god and trying to like move your arms

[01:12:48] and squat and just remember that you know i'm talking about the no more thing that holds me back

[01:12:54] for me playing the original final fantasy seven is the marching parade in upper june on

[01:13:02] yeah that is to me the absolute worst part of the og final fantasy seven i hate that so much

[01:13:13] but yeah the rhythm is improved two other things i want to mention before we

[01:13:20] move to the gameplay loop that i failed to talk about a narrative was is i'll just briefly mention

[01:13:26] number one i think this game has the best music of any game of all time i'm gonna agree

[01:13:32] half arguably halfway i'll agree i think i think it has so many tracks so many different

[01:13:40] motifs and themes and variations of themes endless variations of themes my favorite part yeah

[01:13:46] and the themes are so incredible they all are bank they're all like top tier

[01:13:54] like cinematic level like beyond most films to be honest and then having the piano mini game

[01:14:03] where you're playing those things and that mini game is freaking hard i see the height also

[01:14:07] suck at it but dude like

[01:14:14] like it's just stuck in your head all day it's so it's so good and then the other thing like

[01:14:21] this game has incredible visuals there are times when it can look muddy and like weird in the

[01:14:27] open world but every time i go into an interior in this game for the most part like there's

[01:14:34] interiors in these little towns that just blew me away with the amount of detail

[01:14:39] just drenched in every corner of these like little buildings even like an upper june i'm like the shops

[01:14:47] did i just stopped and i've been just like walked around the shops and just like looked at all the

[01:14:51] little things and i was like man somebody like spent hundreds of hours putting these little

[01:14:57] 3d objects in here and it looks amazing anyway i just had to briefly mention them before we

[01:15:01] talk about one of the biggest maybe the part of the game that is probably the most divisive

[01:15:07] and will probably push the most amount of people to actually fall off this game perhaps myself

[01:15:12] included at times and that is the gameplay loop yeah so we've been pretty pretty high on final

[01:15:20] fantasy seven rebirth up until now um until now listen this game when it does its linear

[01:15:28] sections spot on love it fantastic it it has good pacing it has enough you know corners and

[01:15:37] little side hallways to check for items and to do things enough combat encounters but not too many

[01:15:44] just a progression of pacing when it is linear is fantastic and the open world hubs are so

[01:15:52] incredibly uneven in terms of like literally with the terrain but also in terms of quality

[01:16:02] so when you first come out of calm and you are able to kind of explore grasslands

[01:16:07] i thought to myself this is amazing this is dope but this game is not built for vertical

[01:16:15] traversal and when your terrain is a bunch of random jagged up and downs like you're going

[01:16:22] you have to like hop down in this super janky fashion three different steps and then you're in

[01:16:27] a riverbed and then you're doing a weird brush stroke to cross the river and then you have to hop

[01:16:32] up in these super weird ways jake is talking about a very specific section of this game

[01:16:37] and i'm just going to call it out this is a warning for players of this game

[01:16:41] when you get to the gun gaga open world just don't even do don't even just don't do it

[01:16:46] yeah it's i'm only talking about the grasslands and folks it is so unpleasant at times to go to just

[01:16:54] walk through the open world of this game despite how beautiful it is grasslands is not great

[01:17:01] gong gaga please for the love of all that is holy if you believe anything it's so bad it is so

[01:17:10] so frustrating to just get from point a to point b in gong gaga um it it really killed my hype i very

[01:17:21] willingly put the game down and moved on to something else because i was like getting through

[01:17:25] this section of the game literally getting even following the main road literally getting through

[01:17:32] it like moving the character is so unfun it is so janky it is so frustrating that i was i was so sick

[01:17:40] of the game i was so mad i was like how did this happen how did you do this my journey with this

[01:17:46] open world is this is a checklist style open world a la ubisoft assassins creed whatever right

[01:17:56] million different games with this like style of open world even breath of the wild to some

[01:18:00] extent is it i think breath of the wild is like a mix of checklist and discovery right elden ring

[01:18:06] would be like 100 discovery base right like there's no icons um this is a checklist open world in the

[01:18:13] grasslands i nearly 100 the first three that i did and then i got to gong gaga and then i was going

[01:18:22] into thinking like oh i'll probably do this one no nope i am out it it drops off a cliff so badly

[01:18:30] and i'll be honest like that really killed dude it killed my momentum to want to keep going to

[01:18:36] finish the game i'd probably be finished with this game by now if it weren't i'm gonna be

[01:18:40] frankly honest if it weren't for gong gaga i might be finished with the game by now

[01:18:46] but to jake's point like it killed my momentum so badly and i got through it and i got to

[01:18:50] the next part and it's like okay like we're good then you kind of hit some more story

[01:18:55] exploration stuff where like i mentioned the beginning it's like okay it's starting to

[01:18:59] feel like a little bit like i'm ready for something new to happen um it's like more character backstory

[01:19:04] which is good character backstory but it's like oh man this is like a lot i feel like i'm reading

[01:19:09] brandon sanderson novel like just get to the good stuff um but yeah i know this it's a checklist

[01:19:16] all over the world which it's good because the combat is really good and there's some stuff

[01:19:24] that's a little mixed like there's finding sniffing things out with the chocobo which

[01:19:28] can be annoying and there's like getting chests which can kind of be annoying and then

[01:19:32] there's like other things and then you have um oh my gosh you have who's the who's the ai

[01:19:39] dude chad the guy chadley oh my goodness you have this random and character who's like

[01:19:48] part of the plot kind of like a lot not really part of the plot but like a central figure in

[01:19:52] the game but like not part of the plot but follows you around the world and is like your open world

[01:19:59] checklist manager yeah and every time you finish one you have to like log into your final fantasy

[01:20:08] seven ipad and talk to him over facetime and be like hey i finished the quest and it just

[01:20:14] dude sometimes it just drove me up a freaking wall um yeah dude imagine if clippy was your boss

[01:20:24] and clippy is micromanaging your to-do list every time you log into work that is chadley

[01:20:33] that's the that's actually the future of work jake that's going to be microsoft solution to

[01:20:36] productivity clippy is just an ai that like monitors you hey i noticed you haven't worked for

[01:20:41] 20 minutes you've been on youtube hey can you type out a three paragraph reason as to why this is work

[01:20:49] related so we can get this checked off and no i mean yeah listen the gameplay loop is super

[01:20:56] uneven here and i mean essentially what it boils down to is that you have the main story quest

[01:21:01] line which is in a linear location and it's fantastic and it's it's really well done

[01:21:07] and then that will lead you into a new open world hub area and the open world hub area there is

[01:21:13] this is the problem i think is that some of the incentives to do some of these highly repetitive

[01:21:19] kind of open world checklist items are good so like the chocobo sniffing out treasure and stuff

[01:21:26] it unlocks pretty dang good recipes for the crafting so i did all of those in the regions

[01:21:32] because the reward right the reward was worth it but it was like okay let me just go sniff out this

[01:21:39] location and then you know for example when you go to like the materia springs right this isn't hard

[01:21:45] it essentially there'd be a lot of crafting items or you go there and it's like okay press

[01:21:51] triangle three times chadley's gonna talk to you and it was like okay i just kind of spent

[01:21:56] two minutes doing the most banal tenious yeah it's like it's like wasted it's like wasted space right

[01:22:03] because the combat related ones are because the combat's so good they're super fun i i think my

[01:22:10] favorite ones were is where you're tracking down like a the region boss right and then you you

[01:22:17] find the region boss and it's usually like a specialty they're actually like super cool

[01:22:21] they're all super cool bosses to be honest like the ones that i thought i didn't find the one

[01:22:25] i go gaga because that's the only one i didn't do either yeah um and then the cactus one dude i

[01:22:36] speaking of minigames that do not make any sense the cactus thing the cactuar what is this in the

[01:22:43] corral region cactuar i i tried the first one and i was like i was like hold on i'm supposed to

[01:22:50] hit what minimum score here i was like a fifth of the way there and i was like nah i'm done

[01:22:58] yeah the other part of the loop in this game is like you also hit mini game areas golden saucer

[01:23:08] being like the obvious example and by the way the presentation of the golden saucer 10 10

[01:23:12] saucer so great holy crap like they took that they took that way in like the original game

[01:23:17] was like you run into this like casino looking thing and it's like you know it's kind of fun and

[01:23:21] like kitchy dude they took it to like level 100 like they just big glow up they just yeah it was

[01:23:29] crazy and then you've got like you know the dating thing and you've got crazy minigames and just

[01:23:35] the whole thing looks insane and they have this opening sequence that's just this ridiculous

[01:23:40] dance sequence that is crazy and then you also have that in costa del mar same thing it's like

[01:23:48] they stop stop and take a break and you got to do mini games so you can go to the beach and like see

[01:23:54] you know the ladies and their bikinis and stuff and that's like the actual reason for that i'm

[01:23:58] pretty sure that's like yeah it's that's the whole reason anyway you have those sequences as well

[01:24:04] which again like i kind of found those sections like oh this is like a fun break between the stuff

[01:24:12] between like the main stuff like and the mini games were good enough that you're like okay let's

[01:24:16] let's do this but then yeah just not all of them but just some of those open world sections just

[01:24:22] sucked the air right out of the room out of my lungs dude oh my gosh that was dead um

[01:24:28] but if i had to if i had to like rank the open world areas i think my favorite ones would be

[01:24:36] like nibel nibelheim region um cosmo canyon dude cosmo canyon was always cool right um i actually

[01:24:44] really enjoyed cosmo canyon when i finally got to that i was like oh my gosh an open hub that i

[01:24:49] actually enjoy again um that brought life back into me kind of that open world hub i think those two

[01:24:57] were my favorites gong gaga is just so far down in the pits of hell and despair like if we're

[01:25:04] ranking it dude it's such it's so sad because it's such a low point in what and honestly like

[01:25:13] if you took out gong gaga like that would frankly that would have been really good

[01:25:22] and the pc version somebody mod out gong gaga please oh just keep the yeah you get to the village

[01:25:28] looks just keep like the linear section and just linear yourself right on through yeah and skip it

[01:25:34] yeah jake we're getting along in the tooth here let's talk about the impact on the industry

[01:25:41] ff7 rebirth and i can kind of kick us off i've already mentioned this briefly but i think

[01:25:47] could be wrong about this but i think that remake and rebirth and the next game in the series

[01:25:54] which productions already began on yeah um and i said that like it's hard it's super hard to

[01:26:02] make these but it's a lot easier because they basically have all the stuff in place to do it

[01:26:08] right engine wise and all that except the he didn't mention it every i think the director was like

[01:26:14] yeah we'd have to figure out like the high wind situation which is the airship so i think that's

[01:26:21] the biggest hurdle but anyway my commentary on this game is that you have essentially what was

[01:26:26] supposed to be one game split into three now pretty huge games especially rebirth being like

[01:26:33] just absolutely massive yeah ff7 remake being a 60 dollar title rebirth being a 70

[01:26:41] dollar tile and then the third game being uh you know likely a 70 dollar title and i think what this

[01:26:49] does in terms of impact on the industry greater than like you know it's the conversation around

[01:26:55] remakes in and of themselves which clearly that impact is already well and far underway with

[01:27:03] like every studio under the sun is figuring out how to do remakes and remasters and stuff right yeah

[01:27:10] the biggest glowing thing that i see is the idea of putting the resources time energy and investment

[01:27:16] in a massive triple a title by splitting it out over multiple games right and getting a lot more

[01:27:26] value out of asset creation engine upgrades and updates and content that you've built over

[01:27:36] multiple games but are really built on like the same ish engine with some small tweaks like maybe from

[01:27:43] game to game but you have a bedrock there right instead of okay now let's go to the next game

[01:27:48] we got to build everything from scratch you have sort of this three prong game and now

[01:27:54] the first game doesn't necessarily need to sell 25 30 40 million copies to be considered a success

[01:28:00] you can do seven million copies 10 million copies and eight million copies right which is still

[01:28:07] really good and like really strong numbers but then you look at it across uh you know across

[01:28:11] one title and then you've made revenue across those three that's high and you put the time

[01:28:19] energy investment resources that's what i think honestly is maybe like the under examined impacts

[01:28:25] of this game and maybe i'm wrong about that but i get the vibe that like that is a strategy that

[01:28:31] i think other teams especially a big triple a need to to potentially look at yeah i mean this is

[01:28:37] the premise of recycling right i mean and it's so funny because there tends to be a lot of

[01:28:44] backlash to the idea of reusing assets or reusing animations but in a game like this

[01:28:52] in a trilogy especially or any game that has a sequel why wouldn't you reuse what you have

[01:29:00] you know and i agree and i we've talked about this before and you're you're getting at it now

[01:29:06] but i think this can help pricing models so that you can recover costs in a way that makes

[01:29:12] a lot more sense and so i think just like reusing and then retaining the talent that has developed

[01:29:18] all those things for the first game so that they have a workflow that makes sense as you keep making

[01:29:23] games that are sequels or even not even games that are sequels necessarily i think of from

[01:29:29] software right where so much of what is an elden ring is just really smartly reused in uh tweaked

[01:29:38] assets and animations that were present in all of their games and from softwares games

[01:29:42] sort of leading up to elden ring and a team that is retained that is able to sort of

[01:29:48] create and produce new ideas but with the same tools and you know that's just simply not a

[01:29:54] problem and that is so much more sustainable for these triple a games you know but final fantasy

[01:29:59] seven rebirth and remake kind of make me wonder because in film we've talked about this before

[01:30:08] but i love this example of the lord of the rings you know the peter jackson trilogy where essentially

[01:30:13] they were all created all at once all done up front and then they were split up and parsed out

[01:30:20] and i've always thought especially with the state of the film industry right now that

[01:30:25] simply does not happen film industry is so risk adverse at this point that they'll never do something

[01:30:31] uh they'll never they'll never have that type of confidence or take that type of risk

[01:30:35] and listen in the gaming industry it's not that different but a part of me is

[01:30:39] kind of sickly curious what kind of classic game could you remake turn into several titles

[01:30:46] and make work following the final fantasy seven rebirth model we've talked about this in the

[01:30:52] past and in the past i myself have said it's impossible you can't really do it but after actually

[01:30:58] playing this much of rebirth and kind of knowing how or what's going to happen with the third of

[01:31:04] the trilogy i'm like maybe maybe other triple a studios actually could pull this off maybe they

[01:31:11] could do and it doesn't have to be take one game remake it into three games but what kind of ip

[01:31:17] or title could you be successful in doing what they're doing with final fantasy seven i don't

[01:31:23] know i'm starting to feel hope and i'm not sure why i mean night's a little old republic comes to mind

[01:31:28] which has been the development turmoil but we just saw a recent tweet that said that games alive

[01:31:32] and wow i thought it was dead yeah see but it's still saver interactive got out of the clutches

[01:31:38] of of embracer group and they're still holding on to i'm i'm really shocked honestly i mean

[01:31:43] it's good news so cotor that'd be one that could do it cotor could do it do you do it over multiple

[01:31:50] games i don't know i mean what could you flush out there i think you could probably do a lot right i

[01:31:55] mean that quite if you ask that question about final fantasy seven before you're like what could

[01:31:59] you do and they did it right they figured out the crazy ways to do it i think you could

[01:32:04] absolutely do that with a cotor or with you know i don't know chrono trigger final fantasy nine

[01:32:12] uh final fantasy six my goodness that's you know one of the craziest ones that's actually my next

[01:32:20] one of my next games that i'm gonna play earthbound i'll do the mother series i'm just looking at a

[01:32:26] list here there's a lot but i don't know if they'll do i mean if studios are looking for

[01:32:32] less risk still triple a huge potential for massive revenues that i mean i think what we're

[01:32:40] saying we're both saying right now that's probably like where you should be looking or

[01:32:45] you're just gonna look at live service which is what they're already doing so um but if you're not

[01:32:50] going to go live service like maybe this is where you should be looking maybe you should just be

[01:32:53] trying to follow this model and i think i think this model is working for them from what i can see

[01:32:58] from the financials right but maybe it's just not enough i don't know this is where we get into

[01:33:02] that this is where we get in that conversation maybe it's just not enough it's it's obviously

[01:33:07] enough because they keep making them and they're making the third one it's obviously like doing well

[01:33:11] enough for them right but you know for a lot of companies it's like unless it's just insane profits

[01:33:17] it's like not worth it which which brings me to so i didn't play hogwarts legacy you played a

[01:33:21] little bit of it which which i'm like that to me seems like a prime candidate for like okay

[01:33:28] well let's develop a sequel let's do hogwarts legacy too oh wait dude it's i was actually just

[01:33:33] talking to my brother-in-law the other day about this is like dude you've literally built the

[01:33:37] world of hogwarts extremely fleshed out with crazy high production values how much and it's sold 25

[01:33:47] million copies why not release a dlc or a sequel where you just build on top of the systems that

[01:33:54] you've already put in place and the engine and the world of harry potter hogwarts hogsmeade

[01:34:01] and like the outlying world there there's so much you could do so much you could do on top of

[01:34:05] the system you already have with less money less development time and make a crap ton of money but

[01:34:11] instead you're going to go live service it's crazy that blows my mind that to me seems like

[01:34:17] as i'm trying to think of games that could work in this final fantasy seven remake trilogy model

[01:34:22] that one to me seems like the most obvious candidate it's it's it's wild because

[01:34:28] like i'm thinking about like alan wake that series like remedy is not at the same level financially

[01:34:36] right as well avalanche and warner bros and square enix but i'm like they're they're kind of doing it

[01:34:43] right they're kind of doing that with alan wake and with control two that will be coming out

[01:34:50] but for me it feels like so much more of a risk for remedy to do it than like warner bros

[01:34:55] but yeah warner bros just wants to chase the bigger pie which absolutely blows my mind

[01:35:02] what are they like really high production games i guess actually to tie back into news that kind

[01:35:06] of came out today previews for help blade two have come out right and graphically looks like it is

[01:35:13] going to be phenomenal all the action is mocap right and a part of me is like okay all the tech

[01:35:20] and all that you've invested into help blade two there's got to be a help blade three right and i know

[01:35:26] this is super early but bear with me i'm dreaming a little bit here it just seems like it'd be another

[01:35:31] candidate to be like you have invested so much time talent production quality into a product

[01:35:37] please don't just toss that out the window i think studios have to be looking at that

[01:35:42] the map booties the world have to be looking at that and saying help way to use an incredible

[01:35:47] example like supposedly a 10 to 12 hour game or less than that like an eight hour game right

[01:35:52] i don't know but with an insane technical bedrock now go make another eight hour game on top of that

[01:36:01] same bedrock but instead probably what's going to happen is they're going to make a brand new game

[01:36:06] and actually like build everything from scratch and every game is now going to take six years

[01:36:10] to create and that's like the alarming conversation is like that's one of the big problems with

[01:36:16] getting the output that people like you and i want from these studios and having more stuff

[01:36:22] is it just takes too freaking long to make these things like it's taking

[01:36:26] indie developers six years to make a game six years dude that's too long it's just simply too long

[01:36:35] with a outlier being potentially

[01:36:38] i mean f of seven rebirth honestly for the amount of game it is not that long from 2019

[01:36:47] yeah to be honest i actually was expecting this game to come out sooner with much less content

[01:36:54] yeah and then the other outlier would be a jedi survivor right it was three years

[01:37:02] for a pretty massive sequel but again another example like they had the bedrock and they just

[01:37:07] built on top of it and i think that's what more studios got to do yeah feels obviously being armchair

[01:37:12] dev here and so there's things that i'm not considering spider-man 2 being the one that

[01:37:16] comes to mind is like a question mark is like how did that game cost so much freaking money

[01:37:21] yeah and honestly the all the news that came out from that you know awful attack but that the hack

[01:37:28] from insomniac but the news that came out from that that i agree it's a big question mark

[01:37:34] and it actually does make me a little worried about ghost asushima 2 i'm like that's another game

[01:37:39] like spider-man from insomniac that had a budget that kind of made sense that went really far and

[01:37:45] produced a really phenomenal game hopefully there isn't a huge budget bloat problem there at

[01:37:52] sucker punch with whatever it is they're trying to do when they're following up ghost asushima

[01:37:57] that would that would be an awful news right despite how i guess they're

[01:38:02] i guess there is but legends is now a full-blown life service thing and that's

[01:38:07] they're probably gonna bank on like there's gonna be like mx mtx and legends would be my guess

[01:38:13] to kind of help sustain whatever bloat is happening there i'd actually i'll be shocked if

[01:38:19] that's not what the next iteration of legends is just a full-blown life service with like

[01:38:25] plan continuous updates in micro transactions but would that be a model because this is a

[01:38:30] conversation that cameron and i feel like if you're new to the podcast 2024 a lot of our

[01:38:36] conversation has kind of been related to the unsustainability of just the games industry

[01:38:42] and layoffs and all that and we've been trying to tease out you know we're armchair economists

[01:38:47] here cameron maybe not so much arm chest he actually does data analytics but would that be

[01:38:53] a pricing model that kind of makes sense if you did let's say ghost asushima to retails at 60 bucks

[01:39:02] and it there's simultaneous launch it's a 20 dollar multiplayer experience or you could buy the bundle

[01:39:09] for 70 bucks you get the base game single player plus the multiplayer or what if the price were

[01:39:17] something a little closer to hellblade 2 which if i'm not mistaken is going to retail at 50 bucks

[01:39:22] right so imagine ghost asushima to base single player campaign retails for 50 bucks

[01:39:29] let's say the multiplayer base deluxe it's you know addition is 25 bucks or you get the package for

[01:39:35] 65 bucks right is that a better way to try to get more money in a sustainable way that is

[01:39:43] both friendly to consumers but also helps keep the studio afloat honestly i don't know but i

[01:39:50] but they're trying it for sure i mean you've seen with with hellblade is a great that's a great

[01:39:55] tests for it right yeah um principersia was another one that a test that didn't work out

[01:40:01] yeah that price point felt too high so that that's an incredible incredible game fantastic game

[01:40:09] didn't sell a lot of copies why is that is there a price perception oh it's $50 it must be like

[01:40:15] an indie game uh which that's a whole other conversation right is like indie games are

[01:40:22] like too cheap while at the same time like too expensive so it's yeah and the pricing is weird

[01:40:29] like behavioral economics right if you price your game at 50 bucks are you signaling to consumers

[01:40:35] that this game is of lesser quality do they associate it with lesser quality less fun

[01:40:40] or less amount of time that they have to invest in it right so if you think about it

[01:40:47] right all these things you want to play like okay if i charge a hundred dollars for this game does

[01:40:51] that signal to consumers that this is insane value which is a basically we already have a hundred

[01:40:56] dollar games with these crazy like deluxe editions but the way they build that in is

[01:41:01] is in crappy ways where it's like you get a weird cosmetic pack and you get to play it

[01:41:06] like two days early that's really the incentive that's all there is in those deluxe packs yeah instead

[01:41:12] of like it's a it's a weird behavioral economics thing where you could be like what have you just put

[01:41:17] out the game at 100 bucks what have you just did that and it's just the game like it's Breath of

[01:41:21] the Wild 2 or Breath of Wild 3 and it's a hundred dollars so you just put it out on the market

[01:41:25] it's 100 bucks like would it sell the same would it sell less you would think logically

[01:41:30] it sells less right does it i don't know is so is Hellblade gonna flop because people are like

[01:41:38] why is this game 50 but i'm not buying a $50 game when they're complaining about games being too

[01:41:42] expensive it's a weird thing man it's like there's no i don't i don't know yeah suddenly just got

[01:41:48] a little concerned about Hellblade 2 because $50 doesn't seem to be like a super favorable

[01:41:52] price point but it but also kind of to talk myself out of my hopelessness here um

[01:41:59] Prince of Persia is a Metroidvania and doesn't Hollow Knight retail for 15 bucks

[01:42:05] it's 15 or 20 bucks i can't remember until later what's Hollow Knight 2 gonna be 25 30

[01:42:12] it could be and it probably should be but we don't know and i wouldn't be surprised if it was

[01:42:17] like 20 bucks what if it's 60 oh man dude what if it's 60 let's see you got a whole lot of

[01:42:25] good will from the previous game they could risk raising the price point especially because the game

[01:42:31] has been in development for so long that you're like okay they need to cover those costs but most

[01:42:35] people don't think that way they think oh they're just getting greedy these are the types of

[01:42:40] questions though that like corporate entities and planning committees don't they don't take

[01:42:47] those kinds of risks right they just don't they don't take those kinds of risks because

[01:42:50] like we already talked about this is like a thing in behavioral economics if you take a risk that is

[01:42:57] backed by no data because you're testing a theory if you don't have data to back up your decision

[01:43:02] even if it's a bad decision if you have data to back it up you're not going to get fired

[01:43:07] but if you make a decision that is not backed by data you're definitely going to get fired if

[01:43:13] it goes south for sure right but even if it's successful they're going to chalk it up to luck

[01:43:18] and then they won't repeat it right because they're going to chalk it up to luck is that doesn't make

[01:43:24] sense because the even though it does make sense it's just the term for it is it's psychological

[01:43:32] meaning psychologically behaviorally makes sense even though maybe it doesn't analytically

[01:43:37] make sense but you know I don't know so that's the whole thing with help way too I don't know

[01:43:42] if it's right to be concerned because there's outliers in these things right does $50

[01:43:46] matter maybe not it really it depends a lot of things how good is the marketing campaign right

[01:43:51] honestly how good is the marketing campaign I haven't seen great marketing for help way to yet

[01:43:55] I don't think a lot of parents are going to buy their kids help way too I think I think you're

[01:43:59] absolutely right there yeah coming back to the conversation about help way too

[01:44:05] no parents aren't going to buy that for the kids because it's creepy and weird but

[01:44:09] but but is that why it exists or is it just to elevate game pass and be like a technical show

[01:44:17] piece for game what you just said maybe that's what I think it's the latter right it's to say hey game

[01:44:21] passes great value xbox has first party games xbox has exclusive games and look at how this is a

[01:44:28] graphical powerhouse hey consumers this is the best looking game I ever made it's 4k hdr

[01:44:35] just look at these insane graphics oh okay look at the value of game pass is incredible obviously

[01:44:41] yeah right so but people parents will buy Final Fantasy 7 for their kids because it looks like a

[01:44:48] giant adventure with a group of buddies yeah it's like an anime right or whatever it's not

[01:44:53] it's pretty harmless right they might see tiffus boobs and be alarmed but yeah that's the second

[01:44:59] time we said boobs on this family friendly show gosh we're getting fired um my nephew's listed this I

[01:45:05] apologize but it's just you know just being honest the chest we'll just call the chest area there's

[01:45:12] nothing there's nothing inappropriate and rebirth yeah it's it's safe not even not even remotely

[01:45:17] it's a very lot of insinuations although not nearly as bad as remake remake like jesse oh my goodness

[01:45:25] yeah bring a damp washcloth to pat your forehead whenever she is talking to cloud oh my goodness um

[01:45:35] but yeah but going back to this conversation right I mean Final Fantasy 7 rebirth is something that

[01:45:41] you know a parent is gonna buy for a kid absolutely help blade no didn't do well in japan though

[01:45:48] they don't like it anymore I don't know why it's wait they only sold like 250 000 copies

[01:45:53] is it a physical versus digital copy thing dude I don't know it's weird I'm like I don't know I think

[01:45:59] it did well and I think it did pretty well and internationally us but for some reason

[01:46:10] did not do well in Japan I don't know maybe they don't like Final Fantasy anymore in Japan

[01:46:14] are they just play Final Fantasy 14 endlessly does anybody like Final Fantasy actually though

[01:46:20] all I see is people complaining that's true well Jake any other comments on Final Fantasy 7

[01:46:28] rebirth we are almost at the two hour mark is this one of our longest ever maybe close to

[01:46:33] Elden Ring yeah Elden Ring's gotta be our longest one ever um final thoughts on Final Fantasy 7

[01:46:40] rebirth if you are in any shape or form remotely interested or a fan no matter how small a

[01:46:48] Final Fantasy 7 og or remake there's absolutely no reason for you to avoid this game you will love it

[01:46:55] you will live in it you will die in gaga but you will be resurrected in um Nebelheim uh but yeah

[01:47:02] it's honestly an awesome game I was looking at my play time about 53 hours and and and it's

[01:47:08] crazy I think how long to be is lying to you when they saying you could beat this game in like

[01:47:13] 30 hours mainlining because I feel like I've been mainlining mostly um but I've spent a lot of time

[01:47:20] in this game this is a really fantastic game I think if you just want a single player experience

[01:47:25] and you want to just soak in it and you want to spend a lot of time in it pick this one up

[01:47:32] this is the next one for you absolutely this is an epic AAA of AAA sort of almost

[01:47:43] old school and it's aesthetic and it's sort of grander and accomplishes so much has this has a

[01:47:52] lot of loads and has some warts but overall is just an amazing video game that is well worth your

[01:48:00] time and if you're and if you're someone who likes huge video games I mean this game has it

[01:48:05] literally all it has all of it it has everything okay I have to I have to ask one last question

[01:48:10] though and then I promise I'll be done is this your game of the year front runner

[01:48:15] uh yes

[01:48:20] dragon's dogma is nipping out its heels though potentially but I but I think well we'll see

[01:48:29] how dragon's dogma comes to a conclusion for me but I just think overall like as a package

[01:48:35] rebirth is probably going to take that spot man gangaga really took it down though and like I

[01:48:40] lost my momentum like I said I still haven't finished it I want to go finish it but for some

[01:48:46] reason it's just once I hit 40 hours it is like hard for me I really want to just be done with

[01:48:52] a game like when I hit that time and so it's it's a weird it's like my brain's broken that's why

[01:48:57] but um that being said I'm at 175 170 hours in bouldersgate 3 so maybe it's not broken I

[01:49:04] don't know that's a lot of hours good for you the last comment I'll make

[01:49:12] uh anyway did I answer your question yeah you did I wanted to make one more comment my last

[01:49:18] comment on f7 rebirth is the conversation that we didn't talk about in the news is that

[01:49:24] there's a rumblings going around that gta 6 is the most important game ever made

[01:49:29] interesting and the reason for that is because it is sort of what they believe is the last of a dying

[01:49:38] breed the massive triple a massive massive crazy budgeted triple a video game because there's no way

[01:49:49] I mean we're talking like 13 years since gta 5 yeah so you think about like does that mean we're like

[01:49:58] 15 to 20 years from from gta 7 if or is gta 6 just now just a game like on its own right so

[01:50:09] so there all eyes of the industry are on gta 6 because of that game doesn't make a bajillion

[01:50:18] dollars then it's going to have massive massive implications and I think by all accounts it's

[01:50:24] absolutely going to um but anyways my tie-knit to f7 rebirth is like I do think this is maybe

[01:50:36] the lot I keep saying this and they keep doing it but so maybe I'll eat my words and I hope I do

[01:50:41] but I feel like games like this are just going to become fewer and fewer and fewer

[01:50:45] and far between so you think this is like the beginning of the end maybe I think we're at

[01:50:50] that period of time I just think like with these layoffs and these industry shifts and

[01:50:55] the live service conversation and like the movings and happenings and like business considerations

[01:51:00] like all that thinking about gta 6 and like looking at the game like this like if you make a game

[01:51:05] like this and it doesn't make a billion dollars I just think companies don't even want to do it

[01:51:08] anymore um and so anyways I am so glad this game exists and I hope companies continue to make

[01:51:14] games like this um so go play it and go buy it and go support go support the stuff you love

[01:51:20] f7 rebirth great game okay there it is best game ever the game of the year um for me jerry's still

[01:51:29] out man I'm in the same boat as you dragon's dogma 2 is nipping out of teals I need a I haven't

[01:51:34] touched dragon dogma 2 in a while because I've been so busy with work but when I'm able to

[01:51:40] throw myself into that I'm super curious to see if it will overtake final fantasy 7 rebirth

[01:51:48] boulders gay 3 should just win it again

[01:51:54] is that allowed the dark urge play through dude oh yeah so that's what gets nominated for 2024

[01:52:01] you know game of the year from these different outlets is the dark man the dark urge point

[01:52:06] through is insane uh ladies and gentlemen this has been another episode of the pre-order bonus

[01:52:10] podcast talking final fantasy 7 rebirth thank you so much for listening to the show if you like it

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[01:52:38] content that we do trying it jakes been busy at school so we're gonna we got to ramp up the

[01:52:44] content this summer we gotta we gotta do more stuff we're gonna put out more stuff more value

[01:52:48] for you guys check out patreon you can see our extended edition episodes jake indy impression

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