Arco

[00:00:14] In the same week that a 8-year development cycle will go again.

[00:00:40] The game comes to market.

[00:00:44] Is taken behind Sony's garage and shot a new much smaller single-player game comes out

[00:00:55] to massively critical client, Astrobot.

[00:00:59] Just a weird week, just a super weird week, especially for a Playstation which I should

[00:01:09] have a lot of experience.

[00:01:10] I can't comment too much, but I just wanted to give my condolences to Concord.

[00:01:18] I did have a chance to play it.

[00:01:21] I thought it was fun.

[00:01:22] I thought it was fine.

[00:01:23] I'm not a hero shooter fan though and clearly something about it just didn't take

[00:01:27] in the marketplace which is super unfortunate.

[00:01:30] It's just feel terrible for developers that spent so much time and clearly put a lot of

[00:01:35] hard and effort into it trying to make something cool.

[00:01:41] It feels like the stakes are always that much higher these days.

[00:01:45] Things really got to work in your favor or your game shut down in a few weeks.

[00:01:52] Folks I got to apologize if you're a long time listener that I sound funny, because

[00:01:56] I came down with a nasty cold and now I am super congested but I am feeling much better

[00:02:01] today than it was earlier.

[00:02:02] But yeah, I don't know, Concord man.

[00:02:06] It's just like the game, I don't know, I didn't play it.

[00:02:11] It looked good.

[00:02:12] I thought it was not a bad concept by any means but I don't know if I felt like it

[00:02:20] just came too late.

[00:02:22] Having the game sit in development for eight years, it's just way too risky.

[00:02:27] The market trends have just changed too much and it just makes you wonder why did

[00:02:32] it take eight years?

[00:02:34] Did it have to take eight years?

[00:02:36] It's just like another mismanagement story or whatever but Cameron said he can't talk

[00:02:40] too much about it.

[00:02:41] So I'm kind of just thinking out loud asking these questions to you the listener.

[00:02:46] It's a sad moment.

[00:02:47] I don't think I am really not super happy with the social media kind of trend right now

[00:02:52] just totally spitting on their grave.

[00:02:55] I don't think that's the right way to approach this by any means.

[00:02:58] It just feels it sucks man because this may be firewalk, they were going to develop

[00:03:02] something else or maybe they the town that they were developing on a studio was going

[00:03:08] to be used for something even cooler but they just never got the chance.

[00:03:11] I don't know kind of rambling at this point.

[00:03:14] Yeah, it's you know, the market place is fickle and we have and it just as we had

[00:03:22] conversation about this last week on a special topics episode which is available to

[00:03:27] all collectors edition subscribers of the podcast up on Patreon where we go like pretty

[00:03:32] deep on the topic.

[00:03:34] So if that's like a specific topic that you're interested in, like why games fail and kind

[00:03:40] of how the marketplace works a little bit.

[00:03:43] We try and give a little bit of data and kind of go deep on that but anyway.

[00:03:49] Other than that, lots of games still coming out, AstroBot, Space Marine 2 is coming

[00:03:56] out soon.

[00:03:57] We have Jake and I are both playing Star Wars outlaws right now episode on that coming

[00:04:02] in the next few weeks.

[00:04:06] So we're in like the absolute throws of fall games but today we're talking about a game

[00:04:12] that you may have seen pop up in your feed if you're on the socials but if you're

[00:04:19] not it might not have.

[00:04:21] I think this is a hidden gem and not a lot of people know about it and so we're going

[00:04:26] to try and give some illumination to I think you'll find Jake and I really liked this

[00:04:34] game and I think we're going to talk about Arco.

[00:04:37] I am super excited to talk about Arco.

[00:04:40] This is the worst week for me to get sick or maybe the best week.

[00:04:42] Because I would talk forever about this game.

[00:04:46] It's very much has to do with a lot of the things that are in my background and literary

[00:04:49] studies so I'll keep it kind of brief, try to say my voice a little bit there and then

[00:04:55] before we really get into it I do want to say thank you the developers they did send

[00:04:59] us keys for this game.

[00:05:01] So we've actually been playing it for quite a while now.

[00:05:03] We've been playing it since a few days before launch.

[00:05:06] I played in finishes on Switch and then Cameron was playing this on Steam and honestly

[00:05:11] I don't think that makes too much of a difference rather than except for some performance

[00:05:15] things.

[00:05:16] I just want to caveat like I highly recommend playing this game on Switch after a performance

[00:05:21] patch has come out in the meantime I highly recommend this game but on Steam.

[00:05:28] Yep so Jake, we're going to do our classic analysis.

[00:05:31] Jake how are we going to break down Arco on today's show?

[00:05:33] We will be talking about Arco in three categories.

[00:05:36] The first one will be the narrative.

[00:05:38] There is a very compelling story here and it is told in a super cool way and that's

[00:05:43] part of the reason why this game works so well.

[00:05:46] So we'll talk about that in our first category.

[00:05:49] Secondly we'll be talking about game design.

[00:05:52] We'll be talking about like what makes this game kind of tick and how you interact with

[00:05:56] this game and what it does for a turn-based tactical games.

[00:06:02] I think a lot of people hear that they hear a turn-based tactical game and they're like

[00:06:05] oh that's not my thing.

[00:06:07] Well you know Arco kind of does something pretty new in here so it might be a game for

[00:06:13] you.

[00:06:13] Listen close how it's saying our game is on category and before we make a decision

[00:06:17] whether or not you want to play them.

[00:06:19] Then finally impact on the industry.

[00:06:22] There's a lot that we can say here this is an example I brought up in our special topics

[00:06:25] episode on why games fail and yeah just kind of the reality of marketing a video game in

[00:06:33] 2024 especially in indie game we'll touch on those topics at the end so buckle up

[00:06:37] it's gonna be a pretty exciting pretty exciting episode as we discuss Arco today.

[00:06:45] Alright well let's jump in talking about the narrative of Arco so this game is I don't

[00:06:55] want to say this is like a complicated narrative but it's doing a lot of stuff.

[00:07:01] There's a lot of like lifting going on and a lot of stuff happening.

[00:07:06] Jake this takes place in Mexico is that right or is it a fictional South American like

[00:07:13] South Central American Central American like area?

[00:07:18] Yes so it is as far as I can tell everything's fictionalized the indigenous groups

[00:07:24] the names and locations etc but it is very much I would say based off of like 19th century

[00:07:32] rural Latin America.

[00:07:34] I think Mexico pre- predominantly because of the way that indigenous languages are used in

[00:07:39] the specific space excuse me the specific spellings that are in there.

[00:07:43] Yeah right developers are from Mexico so it very much is drawing on Mexico specifically

[00:07:48] but for example you write a llama llama that's very much from the Andes not for

[00:07:53] a Mexico.

[00:07:55] Yes so there's like that's what I came across from me I was like oh cuz it started off

[00:07:58] and I was like okay this is like seems like Mexico flavor and then it was like wait is

[00:08:03] this like Peruvian flavor so like kind of combines like a bit.

[00:08:07] They call it this they describe it as a Meso American fantasy RPG which I think is

[00:08:12] as appropriate.

[00:08:13] This is a dream game for two individuals I I majored in Latin American studies in Jake obviously

[00:08:19] has a PhD and what's your PhD again Jake?

[00:08:22] Hispanic literature's in cultures.

[00:08:24] Hispanic so like this is this is like right in the sweet spot.

[00:08:29] Yeah for but yeah so so Arco I'll just kind of lay out what I think is kind of a broad

[00:08:40] strokes like story and kind of setting here and then Jake you can go deep on I know I

[00:08:46] know you're you're prepared to go super deep on this but yeah this is again described as Meso

[00:08:51] American takes place in three different chapters including a prologue that Chronicles sort like

[00:09:02] short stories within different sub cultures within within this sort of fictional South Central American

[00:09:15] nation country region whatever you want to describe it as and highlights the interaction between

[00:09:23] these different cultures talks a lot about colonialism talks a lot about like issues that are

[00:09:31] very very predominant conversation and topics of study when you talk about Latin America.

[00:09:38] And and they are siphoned into video game form which is just super fascinating like super fast

[00:09:44] and my dad extremely well executed yeah they just do an incredible job of making not only kind

[00:09:53] of the setting interesting but also pull on strings that are very central and kind of at the

[00:10:01] root of you know some of the larger issues and conversations as it concerns like Latin American history.

[00:10:09] Yeah absolutely I think what when we think of the wild west we think about obviously like and

[00:10:15] I'm speaking from the perspective of Americans and I would even say just kind of like the globalized

[00:10:18] notion over the wild west is we think about United States history and I think it's actually

[00:10:23] really fascinating to kind of look at the same time period you look at the 19th century in Latin America

[00:10:29] and there's something similar kind of happening but it has its own distinct flavor and if you've

[00:10:39] arco is the game for you and this is what I love so much about it it reminds me a lot of

[00:10:45] made to like late 20th century Latin American novelists during a literary period called the boom

[00:10:52] where there's a lot of historical fiction being written and produced that was highly critical

[00:10:57] of the contemporary political circumstances in which those novels were published and so I feel

[00:11:03] that there's something very much heartens to that tradition in that it's like a historical fiction

[00:11:09] setting they say it's like a Mesoamerican fantasy RPG which I think is true right like I don't

[00:11:13] want to discount on the way that they're writing about it but the way that I see it was like man it

[00:11:19] just kind of goes into I feel like that was that's almost the phrase that you need to describe it to

[00:11:24] people who aren't familiar with Latin American culture because there are like moments in magical realism

[00:11:31] in here and there are moments of like really popular characteristics from Latin American literature

[00:11:36] but um I don't know it's just this wonderful wild west with with mystery and there's a lot of

[00:11:42] different groups here that are you know attempting they're looking for survival in an everchaping

[00:11:50] jing landscape like physically and literally the landscape and how it's changing and also politically

[00:11:55] and I just think that is super telling of just like Latin American politics where um man

[00:12:02] it's like how do I put this when we talk about Latin America we're talking about 20 plus countries

[00:12:08] all at once and they are all so different and within those countries are all super different

[00:12:12] and almost doesn't make sense to talk about Latin America's a region because there is a ton of

[00:12:16] diversity in there and there are a lot of different competing voices looking for security and

[00:12:21] viability and a relatively hostile environment um and I just think arco doesn't really

[00:12:26] fantastic job of being like okay um you're not there's multiple protagonists and there are multiple

[00:12:31] stories that you're playing through and each protagonist has a different goal in mind and they have

[00:12:37] to work together and sometimes they butt heads as they're trying to achieve those goals and so I

[00:12:41] think it just has a remarkable job of illustrating how messy politics really are my especially

[00:12:46] we have a lot of voices speaking and they have different needs so they have a ramble there but I

[00:12:52] just thought it was really wonderfully done because it does harken to a lot of Latin American literature

[00:12:56] that does the same thing that's like you know there are a lot of different political voices in here

[00:13:00] and we can all agree that the main power structure is not really benefiting any of them yeah 100%

[00:13:08] some things I kind of popped out from me um this is not like this game doesn't really hold punches

[00:13:16] from a narrative standpoint like it's dark it's glory it's super violent but it's presented in

[00:13:24] this like sort of beautiful landscape ish pixel format which is something that you've probably

[00:13:30] never seen before I've never seen it like you don't like this before at all and so seeing

[00:13:35] something presented we're on the face of it like you show you show somebody a screenshot of this

[00:13:41] this is like the hardest thing with this game because there's so much depth but on the

[00:13:45] this is a really hard game to like I'm not surprised that the developers came on on Twitter and

[00:13:50] were like hey our game's getting like crazy critical acclaim but like no one's playing right yeah

[00:13:55] and I think this is just a game that's like incredibly hard to me to present to people

[00:13:59] and convince them to like hey come play this and it's unfortunate because I think what's there

[00:14:04] once you get in your expectations are are completely like blown away and for me you know what I

[00:14:14] some things that stood out was just I love the combination of like you already mentioned

[00:14:20] you mentioned magical realism there's like fantastical fantasy elements here but mixed with

[00:14:27] stuff that's like very rooted in you know historically accurate depictions of colonial

[00:14:33] you know colonizers coming and kidnapping and killing people and indigenous people fighting

[00:14:40] and racism and racism between sub cultures not just between like colonizers versus the indigenous

[00:14:47] population but racism and violence between the sub cultures within the population which is just super

[00:14:54] fascinating all those things there's there's like mystery and intrigue here like you're in some of

[00:15:01] these sub stories like your your kind of you're seeking revenge but then all these stories are

[00:15:09] connected and so you're looking as you're playing you're seeing how the stories are

[00:15:14] interconnected and sort of finding Easter eggs within the game from the previous chapters as you move

[00:15:21] through because there's like time jumps and and time jumps and then character jumps but they're

[00:15:27] interconnected and I think they just do a masterful job of like connecting this all and making it

[00:15:33] feel like one story but being able to have completely different characters and highlight like

[00:15:41] these different elements that they wanted to go after in these different sub cultures I think a good

[00:15:46] example another good example of kind of a game that tries to do this but I don't think does it as

[00:15:52] well is the octopath travel organs so octopath travel are two does it a lot better than

[00:15:58] what's about traveler one it's kind of connecting the stories but they do feel very isolated

[00:16:04] and sort of disconnected still in a way that I didn't super like whereas I think Arco does a

[00:16:10] much better job of like hey we're going to a new character now this is like a brand new story

[00:16:15] but they're still interconnected and they do that and like a really masterfully executed way.

[00:16:20] Yeah I can only imagine how difficult was this story board this entire game because

[00:16:25] there is a whole lot like he said we've already talked about like thematically what's happening

[00:16:29] but just as you're following the different characters you start with and again if you're new to the

[00:16:35] podcast we don't really do spoilers but we'll talk about like the first 20% or so of the story

[00:16:41] in the prologue you place tickle little tool which this is super like nautil kind of name

[00:16:48] and you are going with your family and you're going to this this important tree this like

[00:16:54] tree spirit and you're gonna offer like given offering it's like kind of just a way of life

[00:17:00] it's something that you do with your with your indigenous group part of their religious beliefs

[00:17:04] of their convictions and you go and it's mostly tutorial like how combat works you wake up in the

[00:17:11] middle of the night and you feel really anxious about getting to this tree to make this offering

[00:17:17] and so you kind of sneak out of the camp and then you go through some combat and then you make

[00:17:21] your offering to the tree and the game at the very beginning is like this offering you kind of

[00:17:27] found it last second you know and so it feels very much like you're playing as like an adolescent

[00:17:33] who is getting more and more capable but not necessarily super thoughtful and after you drop this

[00:17:39] offering off um you're under attack you realize that there's like a group of people that you

[00:17:45] have never seen before and they are shooting at you with weapons that you've never seen before

[00:17:51] and you go you escape and you go back to the village and you realize that you're the one who made it out

[00:17:57] so that's kind of the prologue and then so Tecco Lotto takes on the name Tso and when I love about

[00:18:05] this game this is where the game story really starts we start is playing as Tso so Tecco Lotto who's

[00:18:10] changed his name to something that's much less indigenous sounding and something that is very

[00:18:15] much like a type of a nickname that you would hear in Latin America and um you just it's what I love

[00:18:22] about this is that this prologue obviously it's supposed to totalize the mechanics of the game

[00:18:27] but in this I won't spoil but I will say that that prologue that personal history

[00:18:32] like becomes so emotionally important to the narrative oh yeah it's gonna weigh that I was not

[00:18:40] expecting um and so when I got to like the later parts of the game and when I got to the ending of

[00:18:46] the game you know and we've kind of lived several lives with different protagonists in their stories

[00:18:53] it really dawned on me like how masterfully all these stories and all these back histories and

[00:19:01] personal experiences of the characters you play us how they weave together and it gets quite emotional

[00:19:06] like it gets sing if it like it really tugs at your heartstrings pretty pretty hard and I just

[00:19:11] thought like wow this game just ensnared me like it felt like oh this is just gonna be a fun sort of

[00:19:17] revenge story but there's a lot of depth to what happens to each of the characters throughout the course

[00:19:23] of this game the amount of emotion that they're able to translate through text boxes and pixel graphics

[00:19:30] is insane like it's great it's like something that you could never and with very minimal

[00:19:37] text I mean it's not like they're throwing like a wall of text with you and he's giant like monologues

[00:19:42] it's literally it's just like tiny like it's so effective yeah like every little text box

[00:19:51] is just highly highly strategically I mean you can tell it's your point like I can't even imagine

[00:19:58] how much thought and like restraint went into developing the story because it's just so well

[00:20:04] executed and I respect I'm you just fascinated until your point like on the context of the prologue

[00:20:10] like going to the main it's so subtle that you don't even like when I started I was like I didn't even

[00:20:18] I wasn't even clear if like oh is this can is this the same person like is this connected

[00:20:23] and is but it's like it's so subtle they show so much restraint yeah in that where they're not just

[00:20:28] like and the story continue it's like it's very much restraint and it's very like hinted at

[00:20:34] but that just makes it so much more impactful and they they they deliver a lot of information

[00:20:40] and a lot of context by doing very very little which is just super super masterful yeah going off

[00:20:49] that point you were not baby at all there's like no sign posting in the story it's it's really

[00:20:54] not like and this is what's gonna happen next I'm sure there's like clean and tidy endings to each

[00:20:59] act of the game but it I don't know and I think it just treats the player as an intelligent

[00:21:07] reader which I think is super nice and I think kind of to your point I'm like this is a really

[00:21:12] hard game to explain and it's hard to do onboarding for this game but I would say like similar

[00:21:19] the novel that comes to mind from mexico from carlos funtis the death of our temio crews

[00:21:24] is is similar in the regard where I remember I was reading that for class and the first few chapters I was like

[00:21:31] why do why do I care about our temio crews you know but by the time I got to the end of the

[00:21:35] novel I was like oh I've seen and I've lived with our temio crews and so I under I have a lot

[00:21:41] of complicated emotions towards this character and towards other characters in the novel by the

[00:21:45] get to the end and I just think this is why I think it kind of works really well with boom novels

[00:21:50] in Latin American literature more broadly where the game up front just does not baby you it's like

[00:21:57] okay guys here's what it is here's what you need to know and I think the word you use is actually

[00:22:01] perfect for it there's a lot of restraint because some games they just want to info

[00:22:06] up then want to give you a ton of exposition so you don't have any questions and you know clearly

[00:22:11] what mystery it is that you're chasing and I just think that they took a huge risk in not doing

[00:22:17] any of that but it paid off in spades because I think it allowed the player to become much more

[00:22:23] emotionally attached to each of the characters rather than just watching the characters go through

[00:22:28] the story I felt like I was really with them alongside them throughout their journey.

[00:22:33] Absolutely check any other thoughts on arcos narrative I mean I think we could have a full podcast

[00:22:37] like on the narrative expertise and maybe maybe that will be a special episode but any other thoughts

[00:22:44] for this show. I'm gonna say I'm gonna I'm gonna do what the devs did I'm gonna restrain myself

[00:22:50] and I'm just gonna say guys you gotta play this game I think if you have really little knowledge

[00:22:57] about Latin American stories and voices and you love playing video games just play arco

[00:23:02] and you'll get a good taste of what literature has to offer. Yeah and don't let the presentation

[00:23:10] like give it a chance open it up and don't be like this is too indie for me like give it an

[00:23:18] hour if it doesn't hook you whatever but I think if you just give it a second it's like out of

[00:23:33] lots of talk about here but let's just start with I mean if it was just the narrative elements

[00:23:41] that would be one thing but they've got this this is a game that does something different yeah

[00:23:48] which is just what elevates it to getting up to that like really high level of execution

[00:23:56] so it executes it does this tactical turn based real time combat system that's also like

[00:24:10] point in click top down with 2D sprites yeah that like somehow works really really well

[00:24:21] and when you first play the prologue you're like this is fine and then as the game progresses

[00:24:26] you like wait a second there's like there's actually a lie here that is very very interesting so

[00:24:32] that's why to describe it is kind of like Final Fantasy 7 remake a little bit yeah yeah where

[00:24:40] it is turned so basically what happens there's turns quote on quote and you can see

[00:24:46] the actions that the enemies are going to do and then you have time to pick a new action or ability

[00:24:54] or movement within that turn and then when you you know when you execute that turn what it

[00:25:01] will you execute that that ability or move then the game continues and like unpause as essentially

[00:25:08] so it does like an automatic pause thing which keeps things moving like somewhat briskly

[00:25:12] but the turn based element sort of the semi turn based element of it allows you to make these

[00:25:19] really tactical decisions with your abilities and your primary ability your primary change is

[00:25:25] pro chapter chapter but you've got melee essentially melee attacks buffs and range attacks

[00:25:33] and the game does this really smart thing with a movement to get out of the way of attacks

[00:25:40] because some of the attacks come at you like a bullet health yeah and so that's another element

[00:25:45] comes into it where it's like there's a bullet health element where you're dodging stuff but

[00:25:49] in turn based and then there's the element of like aiming your shots where the character is going

[00:25:56] to be based off where they're gonna end up in the next turn and so it just combines all these things

[00:26:02] and it ends up turning into a combat system that is at once like pretty like chat pretty challenging

[00:26:09] like I was pretty challenged like I hit some point points in this game where I was getting frustrated

[00:26:15] and I had to like take a break because it is legitimately challenging but super satisfying when you're

[00:26:22] able to kind of get a hold of it and execute on kind of this really interesting system that they

[00:26:27] developed yeah it is it is wild in the most let's see the most common description I've seen of

[00:26:33] this is that's like 1.5 turn based because the game does pause and you select your actions

[00:26:41] but the movement the way that it happens is that like extra 0.5 like the movement the way that

[00:26:47] it happens between turns just feels quite different and what I love about this is actually

[00:26:52] really generous with information so you can hover over enemies you can see how much health they

[00:26:58] have left you can see their movement patterns you can you have a lot of information at your

[00:27:02] disposal and like Cameron said did some of these encounters get freaking tough they get really

[00:27:09] really challenging it's like a puzzle it's like a puzzle to solve where but also like tactical

[00:27:19] but also RPG because you can mix in match abilities and you level up as well and similar to like

[00:27:28] a bowl of G-3 or some of these other tactical it's like a tactical RPG turn based style combat

[00:27:36] the difference being to Jake's point that this is like 1.5 so when you execute your movement

[00:27:41] stuff starts to go on real time and so you have to factor that in yeah like an unplanned ahead

[00:27:49] with because it's not like you do your turn and you actually your action it's you pick what you're

[00:27:55] gonna do and then everything goes real time which adds this other element to your point where it

[00:28:00] like it gets freaking tough yeah and that's honestly I'm glad you brought up the bullet hell

[00:28:04] aspect because you I feel like it throughout this game you're almost always in a disadvantage like

[00:28:11] this advantageous situation where you're up against several waves of enemies they're firing

[00:28:18] sometimes just super hard hitting guns shotguns or bullets are moving quickly you have to be so smart

[00:28:25] with how you spend your dodges and you have to be extremely strategic in when you time your attacks

[00:28:31] and um there are a lot of elements here the most important attack I thought was like any attack

[00:28:38] that has interrupt if you can interrupt somebody else is attack that could give you a massive advantage

[00:28:43] and I felt like that telling one most of my battles was like all right if I can plan being in a specific

[00:28:49] position so they miss all these bullets and when they're finally done stop shooting I can get in

[00:28:53] or if I could get in an interrupt without getting hit and then even better if I could just swarm

[00:28:59] in take them all out yeah it really gets you thinking and then the RPG aspect is that there's

[00:29:06] actually a fairly robust like abilities upgrade screen per character and you've got to be super

[00:29:13] smart with that my probably my biggest criticism of arco is that there isn't a respec that

[00:29:18] I ever found yeah and um by the time I got to act five which is the final act of the game

[00:29:25] I was very well versed with my my characters except for the first one and I was like shoot

[00:29:32] I wish I could have gone back and fixed T-Sos abilities because now that I understand the game

[00:29:36] much better and understand how to use T-Sos with these other characters that I have come to know and play as

[00:29:43] would have been really nice to be able to respec at some point but yeah there is a huge host of

[00:29:50] abilities that you can unlock and the game highly incentivizes you to perform side quests

[00:29:55] to get more XP to get more abilities and more abilities slots I think reach your health

[00:30:00] to increase your magic so that you can perform different abilities and honestly it gets like I was

[00:30:07] super impressed with these skill trees and on top of that lots of interesting items that you can

[00:30:14] use lots of throbles I ended up getting a lot of throbles that could stun enemies I ended up adding

[00:30:19] poison to a lot of my weapons and just I was shocked really at the breadth of abilities that you

[00:30:28] can unlock as you go into different encounters so there's a lot of customization in here but not

[00:30:35] being able to respec I like I said it really hurt with one of my players just because I figured

[00:30:41] out how to be much more judicial about how I spent XP points but yeah I freaking love the skill

[00:30:47] trees in this game that was my biggest concern in our first impressions I was like this game

[00:30:51] had better hold up I hope combat doesn't get stale and it combats that by having you play as

[00:30:57] multiple protagonists who have very different skill trees and I thought excellent this is excellent

[00:31:02] pacing here combat's not getting stale because I am forced to have a new sort of kit as a progressive

[00:31:08] the game yeah you have to adjust your strategy like I found that I was heavily leaning on ranged

[00:31:16] yeah and I was like melee and I was that's maybe one small claw my head with the combat is that ranged

[00:31:23] felt OP compared to melee because of the bullet health aspect which can get tricky but I think

[00:31:32] the game kind of embraces that and it's just like whatever you're just going to have to deal with it

[00:31:35] and like figure out how to just get around it because a lot of that enemies that you'll fight will be

[00:31:40] these super powerful ranged characters that we'll just shoot a lot of bullets at you yeah and getting

[00:31:49] close gets very tough but that's part of the part of the fun of it I think and so it's not

[00:31:56] the balance isn't really like that big of a deal um it turns out the gameplay loop this follows

[00:32:04] basically you've got these little contained areas where you can go around talk to villagers

[00:32:13] you can come across like combat you can come across sorry not just villagers but people who you

[00:32:19] can have conversations with and then within that there are there's decisions in this game they

[00:32:25] can have impact on the I don't think the overall narrative but like I think you can choose

[00:32:34] how to engage in certain situations with violence or with not violence essentially and that

[00:32:41] can result in just things that happen like as you go throughout the game I know I tried to be

[00:32:49] peaceful I think I started out trying to be violent and then I realized that I got really difficult

[00:32:53] yeah and then I was like okay I'm going to switch to a more like peaceful approach and so you

[00:32:59] definitely have some like freedom of decisions there and those happen in sort of these little condensed

[00:33:03] areas that you can move back and forth on with your character and then to move to different areas

[00:33:09] it's an overworld map that you click through and in different points of interest we'll show

[00:33:16] our based off quests and missions you get until you have a main quest but then as you talk to

[00:33:22] individuals like in the world you will get side quests to get like kill enemies or gather certain

[00:33:27] resources and they're just small psych was all this is like very condensed right it's not

[00:33:32] overbearing there's not like a million side quests there's no like grinding at all there's nothing

[00:33:37] like that it's all just like very condensed and like well well thought out by the way so yeah

[00:33:42] the overworld map plays actually quite a bit like another excellent indie game road warden

[00:33:50] where you you go from point on the map to the next point on the map and sometimes depending on

[00:33:55] conversations that you've had like other like branches on the path will show up the game is relatively

[00:34:00] narrative it does introduce like hey there are several points of no return where if the instead of

[00:34:06] being a dotted line it's like arrows from one point to another you're not going to be able to go back

[00:34:12] to another area you will progress the story too much and so I like that um i just thought it was

[00:34:17] a super great like combination of well felt like old school like text based games um but with this

[00:34:25] really unique combat system and so I was really shocked at just like the pacing in the game like the

[00:34:31] game is constantly propelling you forward I did a whole lot of side content and then like Cameron says

[00:34:39] the side content like allows for little branches to kind of come off the main path with one

[00:34:45] exception so somebody in our discord um so uh slugcat stew what they've been playing this game and

[00:34:54] they mentioned something and I was like oh my gosh you're branching decision here actually

[00:34:59] resultant is something quite significant um I was I was really surprised um oh interesting so there

[00:35:06] was there is a lot because I you can't really tell the game doesn't like the game is not over again

[00:35:11] lots of restraints the game is not over it about like if you do this it will change the outcome

[00:35:17] it's just like yeah here's the thing i'm not sure it changed the ending on the game but it

[00:35:22] changed one of the acts quite significantly i think and so now i'm kind of like ooh like i'm

[00:35:29] wondering what other decisions were more important than other ones I don't think that there were

[00:35:34] that many to be honest um really just small ones it would like unlock different side stories

[00:35:39] and you resolve some things and you get more resources like i said i ended up doing the locks

[00:35:44] i wanted XP and so um i just wanted really what i did is i wanted more health like more

[00:35:50] magic or the mana system in this game and more slots for abilities and so you get that by doing

[00:35:57] XP i think somebody who's like a mastermind at tactical games could be this game really quickly

[00:36:03] but i think it took me about 12 hours or so to get through it like i said that was a lot of side

[00:36:08] content but yeah i just think the game sort of balance between the narrative aspects unlocking new

[00:36:14] areas doing kind of these side quests and the combat just made it really easy to stay in this game

[00:36:19] i think like otherwise i bring this all up to come to this point i think arco in any other

[00:36:25] iteration of this game would have felt too long as a 12 hour game but because you play like anthologies

[00:36:33] with different characters you have different abilities skill trees per character and because of

[00:36:39] the way the pacing is set between combat and exploration and like just opening up new areas in the map

[00:36:44] this game absolutely earned a 12 hour um play time and i would even argue that like

[00:36:51] they could have i'm not saying that they should have done this but it was saying they probably

[00:36:55] could have added an even one more character or one more act and gotten away with it so i was really

[00:37:01] really impressed with that 12 hours is a sweet runtime man that's like that is a money it is

[00:37:07] so good man yeah and arco fills all that 12 hours which i appreciate this game this is just some

[00:37:14] markable just remarkable i keep i'm showing praise on this game i've actually been sitting

[00:37:18] or thinking like what are my main critiques of this and i'm actually kind of having a hard time because

[00:37:24] i do think it really executes like what it sets out to do like really well um i mean if i had to say

[00:37:33] anything i think it goes back and this this kind of bleeds into our conversation on impact on the industry

[00:37:41] is it's not even like the art direction it's not any of that all out as i think is really great

[00:37:49] and again i don't really have an answer to this but it's just the presentation like how it

[00:37:53] shows to the public the presentation of how it presents itself like to the public and to the market

[00:37:58] to get people to play it i think just needs like something it just needs like something more

[00:38:03] and i don't know like how i don't know how to do that i don't know if that's

[00:38:08] you know you need like a trailer team or you need like there's something there that's like my

[00:38:13] one critique and it's not even really critique it's more just like a man i wish that was better

[00:38:17] so that more people could find this game because that's just a reality of like you have to present

[00:38:23] even if your game sucks if you present it really well and you trailer it super well

[00:38:29] way more people are gonna hit that button on steam which is going to make your game more successful

[00:38:34] especially like in an indie sense anyway we're bleeding into conversations did you have any other

[00:38:39] thoughts on the design jake before we go over no um yeah i maybe the very last thing i would say is

[00:38:46] that the little individual sprites are the most minimal pixels sprites have ever seen in my entire life

[00:38:51] oh yeah there's it's super minimalist it's insane because literally when people are walking they just

[00:38:56] bounce side to side now this isn't a problem i think in almost any other game it would have been

[00:39:01] a problem to me being like this looks really cheap but in in arco it works because you know

[00:39:08] that there's a ton of skill behind the art direction the landscapes the vistas and the character

[00:39:13] portraits right um just really elevate the game and so like it's same thing and this is also

[00:39:20] tying into this conversation like you present a clip of this game your lost in the landscape you love

[00:39:26] you see the tiniest sprout sprites kind of bouncing around and you're kind of just like

[00:39:31] dude i don't know like when the arco devs came out on on twitter and we're like our game is not

[00:39:38] selling like despite critical praise despite ton of wishlist despite huge like impression counts on on twitter

[00:39:45] and um all this stuff their game wasn't selling and they were just kind of like why not the game

[00:39:56] yeah it's just how do you present this game and i when they said this it started this really

[00:40:02] interesting conversation among all the indie devs that i follow and a bunch of people just kind

[00:40:08] of said like you could do everything right in a game instilled just not reach your goal because

[00:40:13] this market is so saturated and so to your point camera and i'm like man i think arco needed

[00:40:20] like because i think this is self-published they needed to publish her that new how to market this game

[00:40:26] because it is remarkable it's beautiful it's excellent but presenting this game it's the hardest

[00:40:34] sales pitch i think because it's unique it's a region of the world that doesn't get talked about

[00:40:39] or played very often it's an art style that for some people is going to be difficult but the game

[00:40:47] is so dang good it's like how how do you get this into people's hands i don't know yeah i have no

[00:40:55] idea and i think this this starts our conversation on impact on the industry uh i i think if i were

[00:41:01] this team i don't know how well is selling now but i would i would take every dollar that's coming in

[00:41:08] and i would think about how could we create like how could we create like a special audition

[00:41:14] or like a definitive edition and like i would just go beg devolver digital or raffiri

[00:41:21] or one of those teams to get you to like to jump on for like a special edition release or like a definitive

[00:41:27] edition or whatever and you do like a little bit of a re-brand and i'm not saying i don't even dislike

[00:41:34] like the brandings finding it's all fine it's good it's not and i'm not i'm no expert in this area

[00:41:41] so this is totally armchair but that's just like i think that's this game's biggest problem

[00:41:48] is it's just not very well presented and it needed more i needed somebody to

[00:41:55] i don't know like do something to create and needed somebody to highlight the sort of visceral

[00:42:01] to somehow display out to the public the visceral moments that this game offers from a story standpoint

[00:42:12] and a really cool and interesting way like in a trailer or in a Tikta or whatever it is right

[00:42:18] and there's gotta be a team like a publishing team out there that could have gotten that done yeah

[00:42:23] and a much better way so i don't know if that's even i think i mean is the game is released like can you get a

[00:42:30] publisher later i mean you like maybe you can you can i mean with with different things that you've

[00:42:36] described i've seen stuff like that i feel like um bleak sword was a game that came on apple arcade

[00:42:43] and then it launched to steam and switching to the bleak sword dex that's right yeah i just did a

[00:42:49] little bit of a rebrand yeah super high to huge difference super high king league this is another example

[00:42:53] super high king league dex was another kind of rebrand a um um modio added just like a few extra

[00:42:59] things to it like modes i think but yeah i don't know it's just it's such a shame that um and i

[00:43:10] this is the point i really want to make with arco like how many games like arco being buried in

[00:43:16] this super saturated market first time devs first time studios really seem just absolutely

[00:43:22] banger games that you would not expect as a debut and they're just so buried and how do you

[00:43:29] how do you fight that it's such an uphill battle for a lot of these indie games and like you

[00:43:34] have been talking man publishers like they're supposed to fill that niche there right they're supposed

[00:43:41] to that's their area of expertise they can do that marketing and they can like get your

[00:43:46] game out there otherwise you're relying on word of mouth which is like okay i think arco has

[00:43:50] developed like a cult following like critical reception is crazy high people are recommending it

[00:43:57] right but um it's just crazy to me that maybe in 2024 the viral word of mouth it's just simply

[00:44:06] not enough even for not enough for indie marketing for indie games right like 10 years ago

[00:44:13] the example that comes to mind because braid anniversary edition just came out um that what's

[00:44:19] a guy's name whatever that guy he said in his documentary like just make a really good game

[00:44:24] in it'll sell and a bunch of indie devs dogpiled him and we're like that was true 10 years ago

[00:44:30] yeah i think arco is the case in point well it's like arco's a super fantastic game why is

[00:44:35] in it selling well because look at all the indie games that are coming out like my list of games

[00:44:41] that I'm interested in in September alone i've got like four or five indie games that i want to play

[00:44:46] right and i'm crazy like i do this like way more i do it for a podcast like joe schmo average gamer

[00:44:54] how do you get them to see arco and then buy into it i just don't know i don't think there's a

[00:45:00] good answer there i know let's make it a goal of this podcast jake is in the next 10 years we

[00:45:08] will launch a publishing company and we will create a crack team we will be to where the next

[00:45:24] these incredible indie games that just fall because because they just didn't have a cool enough

[00:45:31] trailer that reach enough people unfortunately that's our new goal now that's that's our another

[00:45:38] long time put it in your list yeah 10 years from now we'll be uh go lines with our podcast name

[00:45:47] preer they need a more preer it about us is that's really what it was special outfits for Tso

[00:45:54] outfits for Tso yeah the need a cause of a cosmetics store start the game with uh seven

[00:46:03] poison bottles or something like resident evil yeah pay it pay it win my can't that's that's

[00:46:09] why that's what you need no uh yeah this is just this is just a tough one i think and obviously

[00:46:15] if you've listed our share before i think this is a topic that jaken air passion about is just

[00:46:21] you know there's just a lot of colloduddy bots out there and it's just unfortunate you know

[00:46:29] and it's just a reality it's just a reality that we all face it's just a lot of colloduddy bots

[00:46:34] even a game like astrobot which just came out which has uh you know 94 95 on medicory it gets

[00:46:41] you know like the best platformer in a decade or something besides from mario honestly yeah

[00:46:47] that game could still sell crappy because there's just a generation now that exists only to play

[00:46:56] fortnight league of legends roblox and colloduddy and madden and that and it's because every

[00:47:05] those games have developed into just forever games that release every year that have ongoing

[00:47:10] seasons and battle passes and so the colloduddy bots are the gamer bots as you want to call them

[00:47:16] to get on and they've got their one game it's like why would they invest their time

[00:47:22] into something else uh when they just have their game that they're just kind of play and

[00:47:28] it's just sitting there on their PlayStation and it's the next season of the colloduddy or it's

[00:47:33] the new release of the colloduddy or whatever and i'm not even calling this collodness people out

[00:47:38] are saying like you're now i will call you out if you're a streamer and saying there's no games

[00:47:43] yeah you're a moron there's literally like hundreds if not thousands of like amazing

[00:47:51] games and you need to explore but yeah i mean i would just it's it's frustrating but it's just one

[00:47:58] of the realities and i wish there was an easier way like a better way to kind of get people to dive

[00:48:04] into these experiences that are just phenomenal experiences that are artistic experiences that are

[00:48:12] beautiful and i i i arco i think files under all three of those categories and no like that

[00:48:18] just has fun gameplay yeah now does that mean it's gonna be for everybody no of course not but it

[00:48:23] doesn't have to be but it just has to be for enough people and i think i think that's one of the

[00:48:28] goals of our podcast jacers to highlight some of these games and some of these experiences that

[00:48:33] that are you know kind of outside of the you know kind of the the mainstream if you will

[00:48:43] came in it's just said something super beautiful about the state of indie marketing and i'm

[00:48:48] gonna just crush all that with a stupidest joke that i came up with which is please what if

[00:48:53] it's gotten way too serious in here what a fortnight just had the indie cosmetic battle pass

[00:49:00] you got the plucky squire in there you got t-so from arco you got the frog on girl you got

[00:49:08] one other like random indies have i been playing you get bow i mean you from the path that

[00:49:15] to the lotus you're saying something interesting there what if there was not a challenger but what

[00:49:21] there was an indie game subscription what if there was an indie game subscription that made deals

[00:49:31] with all of like the most interesting cool looking indie games and it was like i don't know 10 bucks

[00:49:37] a month or 15 bucks a month and all the indie titles were on that service see in a person

[00:49:42] that'd be good or bad for the independent developer fury no more robots pass yeah yeah the past the

[00:49:50] indie pass would that sell or would that just die i mean sorry i'm gonna say something very

[00:49:57] chill of me but that's kind of what game passes game pass gets a ton of really high quality

[00:50:02] high profile indie games and the closest no i'm glad that you bring this up though because like

[00:50:09] the closest thing i could think of to this is like humble bundles right where they're like okay

[00:50:13] you could pick three out of six games and you'll get them for i don't know 2015 bucks

[00:50:20] in support of good cause while you're doing it it's just yeah it's tough i mean wood that work

[00:50:28] i mean maybe but like i don't know our subscription service models really the future of gaming

[00:50:38] i think Microsoft is gonna throw so much money at game pass that it works but like

[00:50:44] it's tough i it and it's crazy i think it's just like those indie bundles now that i'm thinking

[00:50:50] about it i would love to know what that does for games visibility and sales because to me whenever i

[00:50:54] get like a humble bundle it's like due to spent 20 bucks i just got 30 games how does this how's

[00:50:59] actually helping anybody is it helping anybody i don't know i don't know probably i mean they get

[00:51:08] some money Microsoft gives out a certain amount of money that hopefully makes the developers happy

[00:51:14] and then people get a gold plate for free and it's like an exchange of value that takes place

[00:51:20] before so they don't have to have that they don't have to have the debate when they're browsing

[00:51:26] steam of like and this game's 20 bucks like but there's like a hundred other indie games like

[00:51:31] a buy like is this the one that one would buy and said you just going game pass and you avoid that

[00:51:36] the downside of that is do you just end up buried in game pass because if you're not on like the

[00:51:41] front page featured selection of game pass like you're probably not getting played very much that all right i

[00:51:47] think my i imagine that game pass if i were to guess this is a strong educated guess

[00:51:55] is that 97% of game pass play time is like four games like force a Minecraft

[00:52:05] quality of the

[00:52:08] it's going to be collided yeah exactly what you just said and then i think every six

[00:52:15] months they'll probably one that pops up and grabs like 10% but mostly it's just

[00:52:20] because that's just like the sad reality you know it's not it's not like some giant mix

[00:52:25] right it's not so i'd be interested to see the analytics on that but yeah that's not some of

[00:52:32] that does kind of relate to the other big problem that indies have which is wish lists um and

[00:52:37] out steam algorithm right there are few kind of like milestones that i feel like are really

[00:52:42] important tons of wishlets help get your game kind of in this team from page directory

[00:52:48] or into those discovery cues reviews right um the the two hour refund policy on indies

[00:52:57] i think on most like triple a game says fine on indies so people will i don't know man

[00:53:05] i feel like if your indie game takes five hours to complete somebody plays it for two hours

[00:53:09] and refunds it you know because they're like you know i actually really like this game

[00:53:14] but i just ran down a refund time so i'm just going to refund it and not end up spending money

[00:53:18] like it does hurt that policy can and does her indies um and even actually in the case of

[00:53:27] one that developers publish this or they took a screenshot of somebody on steam and

[00:53:34] i this is another can of worms we're gonna avoid it and we need to wrap up because you know

[00:53:38] i'm still sick and i need to rest in camera's got stuff to do but like the screenshot was

[00:53:43] is this game woke devs if you block or lock this comment i will buy your game leave it

[00:53:49] review and refund it and it's like holy crap you're holding you know that that is such a

[00:53:57] powerful chip that some people have to leave a negative review and refund your game on steam

[00:54:02] that it's like how do you respond to that like you're trying to sell copies of this game

[00:54:07] and people actually on steam have a really powerful system to tank your game's visibility

[00:54:12] and so like on top of like difficult marketing you can have hostile players who if they don't

[00:54:18] like an aspect of your game they can rally together and tank it and so i don't know i mean

[00:54:25] i guess we're ending with a lot of pessimism cynicism and despair but i guess just like

[00:54:30] there are systems that do work but there are things that need to be reworked it's not it's not ready

[00:54:37] now it's not complete i don't know where i'm looking for my brain is running on two cells

[00:54:42] two brain cells right now she explains the Friday ladies and gentlemen this has been another

[00:54:46] episode of the pre-order bonus podcast talking arco go play arco right now it's great

[00:54:52] unequivocal recommendation from jaken i go on steam gone switch by this game immediately

[00:54:57] support these developers this is a gym i won't be surprised if this appears in both of our

[00:55:04] game of the year conversations when it's all said and done yeah unequivocal recommend go grab

[00:55:09] this game uh in the meantime ball before you do that you can leave a review on for this podcast

[00:55:16] you can leave a five star review until i run how amazing it is that helps people find show

[00:55:20] some more people can listen to our podcast about amazing games like arco uh you can also support

[00:55:26] us on patreon.com slash prercast you can sign up at whatever level you want that suits the

[00:55:31] things that you want we're doing a lot of content these days uh early access to our regular episodes

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[00:55:43] so go check that out you can also join a join in on the conversation in our discord channel

[00:55:47] link to that is in the description finally you can follow us on twitter app here at our cast

[00:55:53] thank you so much for listening and have a great night