The 3DO Experience - Episode 54: Bullfrog Productions: Simulation, Action, Tactics, And Peter Molyneux!

[00:00:00] Have you experienced the awesome power of the Panasonic Real 3DO System? Obviously.

[00:00:06] Presenting 3DO, the most advanced home gaming system in the universe. It's time to put away your toys.

[00:00:17] 3DO from Panasonic, Gold Star, and Creative Labs. Anurou Peiss and 3DO.

[00:00:22] Hello, and graphics of Panasonic Real 3DO.

[00:00:29] 3DO.

[00:00:36] Greetings everybody and welcome back to the 3DO Experience, your number one area for all things 3D and O.

[00:00:44] I am your co-host Thrak and joining me as always is my co-host Bill. How you hanging in there Billy?

[00:00:50] Oh I'm hanging in wonderfully. It's been, this week's already off to a wonderful start.

[00:00:58] So yesterday I was out of work because the power was out at the building, allegedly, and we couldn't come in.

[00:01:06] Turns out we show up today and the power was on all day yesterday, they just neglected to call any of us and let us know, so we basically got screwed out of an entire day's pay.

[00:01:14] Oh, they didn't pay you for that?

[00:01:16] Nope.

[00:01:17] Oh, that's shitty.

[00:01:18] Oh yeah, we were thinking about filing a grievance with the union, but it doesn't look like we're gonna get very far.

[00:01:25] You might as well try.

[00:01:27] We're gonna try, but it's not looking great for us, so I had to use a vacation day, wonderful.

[00:01:34] That's some bullshit there.

[00:01:37] Yep, that's part of working in an industry sometimes.

[00:01:42] Yeah, yeah, it's pretty rough. So yeah, my week's going all right. It's pretty slow, but I feel like my work is just normally kind of slow.

[00:01:54] I finally put discord on my work computer, so that's helped. It makes me look busier because then I'm typing all the time.

[00:02:00] Yeah, but somebody I think was in Jalichon's discord said they're like hey, hey, the way to advance in life is get more money and do less work.

[00:02:09] That's basically what I'm doing. I'm getting more money and I'm not doing nearly as much so it's all good.

[00:02:15] I bring books. I occasionally bring a game, you know, so I kind of I get my work done, but usually if there's not a huge amount to do, I'll just sit there and just goof around.

[00:02:24] And as of right now, nobody seems to be worried about it. So that was me knocking on the wood if you get in the air.

[00:02:33] So we'll see. I tried buying a game gear everybody and yeah, I got it. It works, but the screen is busted.

[00:02:42] And then so I'm trying to get a hold of the guy to maybe like get my money back or whatever, but he's ghosting me for the moment.

[00:02:50] If he keeps but if he keeps doing that, I'll just I'll stick the eBay dogs on him and that'll probably fix it.

[00:02:57] So I did order one that does work like guaranteed to work. It did cost a little bit more, but not a huge amount more.

[00:03:05] So I'm just waiting on that guy and hopefully I can start collecting game gear games because that'd be fun because I have a complete blind spot to the game gear.

[00:03:12] I remember when I was I've had chances to get game gears in the past, but for some reason I just kind of thought, nah, I didn't really want that.

[00:03:20] But it was always in the back of my head like maybe I should mess around with the game gear.

[00:03:24] And even in this like hellscape that is like retro gaming collecting, the game gear surprisingly isn't all that bad.

[00:03:31] Like the most expensive game is like 300 bucks, but most games are like $10 or less.

[00:03:36] So yeah, like like a pricey game for the game gear is like 30 bucks, which is not bad at all.

[00:03:42] So I've bought what I did buy one game.

[00:03:44] I did buy columns because of course I did.

[00:03:47] I've played game gear columns and I do like game gear columns, but I didn't get to play it on this guy, unfortunately.

[00:03:54] But I will say for the game gear like holding it, it does feel nice in the hands like it feels nice and comfy.

[00:04:00] And hopefully I will actually when I get my proper one, get some some more game time out of it, because I'd like to try out like those Sonic games and Defenders of Oasis and even the ports of like Ristar and Echo the Dolphin and all this random shit that got game gear ports.

[00:04:17] Like there's there's a great shining force on there.

[00:04:20] Oh, sort of Higaya.

[00:04:22] Yeah, that one's a little pricey.

[00:04:24] I have it on the 3DS because I bought on the eShop before it closed down.

[00:04:28] So I have that.

[00:04:29] But there was also the two Gaiden games or there's technically three Gaiden games.

[00:04:33] And the first two got remade for Shining Force CD, which don't even bother looking up the price for that.

[00:04:39] And then there was Shining Force Gaiden Final Conflict, which is meant to sort of bridge the two together and then also directly connect Shining Force 1 and 2 because Max is in that.

[00:04:50] And he's going after I forget her name off the top of my head, but she's like the evil sorceress and one that you have a notable boss battle with around the midpoint of the game.

[00:04:59] So.

[00:05:01] But yeah, Game Gear, Game Gear, I'm excited to really like dive into this guy because the most I've played of Game Gear is those Sega compilations that have the Sonic Game Gear games.

[00:05:12] I play them for like 10 minutes and think, oh, that's cute.

[00:05:14] And then whatever.

[00:05:16] Right.

[00:05:16] Yeah.

[00:05:16] Yeah.

[00:05:17] It's really funny to me.

[00:05:18] Like the Game Gear, there is some hilarious like revisionist history when it comes to like the Game Gear in a lot of people's minds.

[00:05:25] Like my favorite is like everyone will always be like the Game Gear is ungodly huge.

[00:05:30] Like what the hell?

[00:05:31] And I'm always like, have you ever actually compared the size of a Game Gear next to an original Game Boy?

[00:05:35] They're not that much different in size.

[00:05:38] I mean, yeah, here's the Game Gear.

[00:05:39] And then where's my Game Boy?

[00:05:42] I have a Game Boy Pocket.

[00:05:44] Hold on.

[00:05:44] So that is smaller, I will say.

[00:05:54] For our video listeners, we'll compare.

[00:05:56] Like here's a Game Boy Pocket and then compare it to a Game Gear, right?

[00:06:02] Like the Game Boy Pocket is, yeah, it's smaller, but you know, it's okay.

[00:06:07] Now, the original Game Boy was a thick boy, though, and it was basically the same thickness as the Game Gear.

[00:06:14] Yeah.

[00:06:15] But I will say with especially getting older, like the Game Boy Pocket doesn't feel as comfortable as it used to.

[00:06:22] You know what I mean?

[00:06:22] Like my hand kind of, you know, they kind of, my fingers tend to tend to have like a middle school dance party behind me.

[00:06:29] So it's, it's, it's a bit of an issue.

[00:06:31] Whereas the Game Gear, I don't know, it's just, it's, it's solid.

[00:06:35] It's, it's, you think it's uncomfortable.

[00:06:37] It's like a Wii U game pad, right?

[00:06:39] You see it and you're like, I don't know about this.

[00:06:41] But then once you hold it, you're like, oh, this is actually, it's fine.

[00:06:44] It's pretty solid.

[00:06:45] It's because it's in widescreen and not orchard mode.

[00:06:49] Yeah.

[00:06:49] Like I guarantee you the GBA looked at this guy and said, we should do that.

[00:06:53] Like I still think the GBA, like the original GBA is the most comfortable GBA, but it's also the least functional.

[00:06:59] Yeah.

[00:07:00] Yeah.

[00:07:01] It's very nice, but I'm so used to the SP form factor.

[00:07:04] And yeah, I know that's, it cramps your hands a little bit, but it's not as bad as say this guy.

[00:07:10] So, and if you're curious, the game I have in here is Solar Striker.

[00:07:14] A cool game.

[00:07:17] Nice.

[00:07:17] Oh yeah.

[00:07:19] Yeah.

[00:07:19] That whole error of handhelds is like one of my favorites just because they were trying like some pretty unique things at the time.

[00:07:25] Oh, absolutely.

[00:07:26] Just like, like I've tried looking at like say an Atari Lynx, but those guys forget about it.

[00:07:32] I got lucky when I got mine, I got it like in the box and everything for like, I think I paid like 200 for it total.

[00:07:41] Yeah.

[00:07:42] I don't think Lynxes tend to break down the way Game Gears do though.

[00:07:45] They were, well, there's a lot less.

[00:07:47] So the original models, it's a bit more common just because they're so fucking huge.

[00:07:52] But the Lynx 2s, I've never really seen a lot of broken ones.

[00:07:56] Yeah.

[00:07:56] It's just, they're way too expensive.

[00:07:59] Like, like if you buy a recapped Game Gear, that'll probably set you back 100, 120 bucks, which is a lot for an old handheld.

[00:08:06] But you look at the prices of the games and it's like, you kind of make up on it on the backend.

[00:08:10] Whereas with the Lynx, it's just kind of expensive all across the board.

[00:08:14] Yeah.

[00:08:15] The Lynx was also really powerful for the time, but it like had no fucking games on it.

[00:08:19] And its battery life was worse than the Game Gears.

[00:08:22] Yeah.

[00:08:22] I mean, there's some great games on there, but.

[00:08:24] There are.

[00:08:27] Yeah.

[00:08:27] That's.

[00:08:28] We're not going to say any.

[00:08:30] We're just going to say it has some good games.

[00:08:32] It's got California games.

[00:08:34] Blue Lightning.

[00:08:35] Blue Lightning.

[00:08:36] Ninja Golf.

[00:08:37] Chips Challenge.

[00:08:39] Checkered Flag.

[00:08:40] The better version of Scrappy, our dog.

[00:08:44] The version of Miss Pac-Man on there is not bad.

[00:08:47] Pac-Land is very good.

[00:08:48] There's a really good version of Rampage.

[00:08:50] I'm surprised you didn't mention Klax.

[00:08:53] I have actually.

[00:08:54] Yeah.

[00:08:54] Speaking of that, Klax on Lynx is really cool because you play it portrait style like an arcade machine.

[00:09:00] That's pretty cool.

[00:09:01] And you can flip the Lynx, which is to me like one of those weird things that like it never caught on.

[00:09:07] But it was a cool idea, I guess.

[00:09:09] It was trying to be like, oh, we're lefty friendly.

[00:09:13] It's ambidextrous, but most people don't care.

[00:09:16] I mean, it's a cool idea.

[00:09:18] No, it is.

[00:09:19] It's one of those things where I'm like, this was a really interesting thought.

[00:09:22] But in reality, most people just adapted.

[00:09:25] Exactly.

[00:09:26] Exactly.

[00:09:26] So, but it is what it is.

[00:09:28] But yeah, hopefully by this time next week, I'll have the proper game gear and maybe I'll report back on some gaming on it.

[00:09:36] So I am still playing Echo, but I'm almost done with it.

[00:09:40] Done with Echo.

[00:09:41] And in fact, if you pay attention to the Superpod network, I will most likely be writing a blog about this game because I have some things I want to say about it.

[00:09:51] Nice.

[00:09:52] Speaking of collecting and stuff.

[00:09:55] I recently went to a retro gaming convention.

[00:09:58] And you'll hear more about it on GNC because me and Alex are going to do a full on deep dive into the convention in a few weeks.

[00:10:04] But I did find some 3DO games because I was particularly looking for them.

[00:10:09] There actually was a surprisingly good amount this year, but a lot of them were like absurdly expensive.

[00:10:13] Like I found the Casper game, but they wanted 300 bucks for it.

[00:10:15] And I was like, no.

[00:10:17] Oh, the 3DO one?

[00:10:19] Mm-hmm.

[00:10:20] I saw that.

[00:10:21] I saw a few other nice ones, but I did manage to find, I found a copy of Return Fire, the DLC, essentially expansion, which was cool.

[00:10:31] Nice.

[00:10:31] I got the Daedalus encounter.

[00:10:37] The Daedalus.

[00:10:38] Daedalus encounter.

[00:10:39] Yes.

[00:10:40] Starring Tina Carrere in the hottest role of her career.

[00:10:43] Yeah.

[00:10:44] I saw that one because there was a stack of games.

[00:10:47] It was like the ones that were worth it.

[00:10:49] It was either that or Super Wing Commander.

[00:10:52] They were that same price.

[00:10:52] And I was kind of like, you know, I'm like, this one looks dumb.

[00:10:55] I need it.

[00:10:56] So I bought that.

[00:10:59] I did find Wing Commander 3, just the jewel case, but it was in really good shape.

[00:11:02] So I grabbed that just to have.

[00:11:05] And then I found the Japanese Sailor Moon fighting game.

[00:11:09] Because I saw that and I was like, what the fuck is that?

[00:11:13] I was like, this is how we get Alex on the show.

[00:11:18] It's the only way.

[00:11:19] Does she even know this show exists?

[00:11:21] Oh, yeah.

[00:11:22] Okay.

[00:11:23] I question that.

[00:11:25] No, she was there when I was plotting it out way back when during the early days.

[00:11:32] But yeah, I found those.

[00:11:33] I also found some other stuff.

[00:11:34] Like I did a lot of Vita collecting because they had Vita games like fucking everywhere.

[00:11:40] Most of them are like the goofy anime ones.

[00:11:42] So like they're all like really dumb.

[00:11:44] Yeah.

[00:11:45] But I grabbed a bunch of those.

[00:11:46] And then I didn't buy it, but I saw one of these things.

[00:11:50] Like they had a bunch of Jaguars on sale.

[00:11:52] One booth had a Jaguar CD sealed in the box.

[00:11:55] They wanted $2,200 for it.

[00:11:58] That's for the CD, right?

[00:12:00] Yeah.

[00:12:00] Just the add-on.

[00:12:01] Yeah.

[00:12:01] Well, the CD, they didn't make a ton of those and they are prone to hardware failure.

[00:12:06] They are.

[00:12:07] So imagine how somebody feels if they bought that out of the box, take it home, and then

[00:12:15] they try to put it on their Jaguar and it just doesn't work.

[00:12:18] I was talking to the owner about that because the guy selling it.

[00:12:21] I was like, so this is sealed, never been opened, right?

[00:12:23] He's like, yeah.

[00:12:24] I'm like, what are the odds it works?

[00:12:26] He's like, you know, it's 50-50, but like that's what they're worth.

[00:12:29] So it's up to chance if anyone buys it.

[00:12:31] I was just like, I was like, at least he's honest about it.

[00:12:35] He's not trying to hide it.

[00:12:36] Well, I think if somebody buys a Jaguar CD, they know what they're in for.

[00:12:40] Yeah.

[00:12:40] It's just like he pointed out that because it was sealed, that's technically what it

[00:12:44] was worth.

[00:12:45] But he said, when you're buying a sealed Jaguar CD, you're kind of, you're taking that

[00:12:49] chance.

[00:12:50] Yeah.

[00:12:51] Roll them bones.

[00:12:52] Yeah.

[00:12:53] There was, I guess when Spoonie did the Highlander game on Jaguar CD.

[00:12:59] He did get it to work, but he kind of goes in detail about how that thing works basically

[00:13:05] or how he was able to get it.

[00:13:07] It has like so many different types of like failure points on it and all that.

[00:13:12] So I know James Rolp did eventually get one working on a James and Mike Monday.

[00:13:17] Yeah.

[00:13:18] Because they got stuck in the Highlander game and then they for each quit.

[00:13:21] I remember that vividly.

[00:13:22] Oh yeah.

[00:13:22] Because that game is a piece of shit.

[00:13:24] I found a copy of it.

[00:13:26] They only wanted 20 bucks for it.

[00:13:27] I was tempted, but I'm like, I'm never going to have a system to actually play this.

[00:13:30] So I passed.

[00:13:31] Yeah.

[00:13:31] Yeah.

[00:13:32] Yeah.

[00:13:32] That big P EMU Jaguar emulator also does Jaguar CD emulation.

[00:13:37] So just play it on that.

[00:13:39] Yeah.

[00:13:39] That's, that's the way to go.

[00:13:40] It was cool.

[00:13:42] I'll always regret that I could have got a Jaguar for 60 bucks and I didn't take it.

[00:13:47] I think that's what I paid for mine actually.

[00:13:50] Cause I bought mine years ago.

[00:13:51] Yeah.

[00:13:52] It was like 10 years ago.

[00:13:53] Now they're like $400 probably because of the novelty and that like, it has a very prominent

[00:13:58] homebrew scene on it.

[00:14:00] You know, it does.

[00:14:01] It's gotten very inflated though.

[00:14:02] It's also reached that point where it's kind of like 3DO where it's starting to get kind

[00:14:06] of a niche popularity to it.

[00:14:08] Yeah.

[00:14:09] Yeah.

[00:14:10] I think the Jaguar has more of a niche popularity than 3DO because of the Atari name attached

[00:14:14] to it.

[00:14:15] So the Atari name then it's very, it's very game looking.

[00:14:21] Like the one thing, the 3DO, like the FC 10, I think is the most game looking of all

[00:14:26] the 3DOs.

[00:14:27] Yeah.

[00:14:28] A lot of 3DOs have that VCR look to them, which I love, but it does kind of, um, people

[00:14:34] see it and they don't immediately think gaming.

[00:14:37] Yeah.

[00:14:37] Yeah.

[00:14:38] And I, I just think the 3DO didn't, it doesn't have that connection to modern day gaming,

[00:14:43] at least not like an outward connection to it.

[00:14:46] The way you say like an Atari does, cause Atari is still doing stuff, you know, they've

[00:14:49] never truly went away, you know, whereas 3DO is, is very much coming on.

[00:14:55] And even though there are remnants of it with like EA and need for speed and all that, like

[00:14:59] that's not what people think about.

[00:15:00] True.

[00:15:01] You know what I mean?

[00:15:01] It's also like the, uh, the Atari Jaguar does have a bit of that, like nostalgia, especially

[00:15:06] for like Americans.

[00:15:07] Cause it was technically the last truly American made console.

[00:15:11] Cause they were, they were actually manufactured in, uh, North Carolina, I think.

[00:15:17] Yeah.

[00:15:17] Yeah.

[00:15:18] Yeah.

[00:15:18] Well, all the modern systems are just made in China now.

[00:15:21] Yeah.

[00:15:22] Like the Jaguar was the last one that was actually made over here.

[00:15:25] Like they were chips and everything, like the shells, everything was made here.

[00:15:30] And it is actually interesting cause I've rarely seen Jaguars, original Jaguars with

[00:15:35] hardware issues.

[00:15:37] Yeah.

[00:15:37] Those things tend to work.

[00:15:38] I've never heard of like hardware failure rates on those guys.

[00:15:41] The worst they get is like the pins will corrode cause they have, there's a lot of exposed

[00:15:45] pins on the board for some reason.

[00:15:47] Cause there's, well, cause there's no flat, there's no door flap for the cartridge

[00:15:50] connector.

[00:15:51] Whereas like every other cartridge based console has like a, like a dust cover.

[00:15:56] Hmm.

[00:15:56] Um, it's the other really interesting thing too, is the, um, there's a myth that it only

[00:16:02] has RF.

[00:16:03] It does have AV.

[00:16:04] The AV connector is one of the weirdest fucking connectors I've ever seen in my life.

[00:16:09] It's pretty proprietary.

[00:16:10] I think the Jaguar CD is RF only though.

[00:16:14] Maybe.

[00:16:15] I'm not sure how that works.

[00:16:16] The thing with the, uh, the, um, the, uh, the, the Jaguar AV collect connector is it

[00:16:22] plugs directly to the board.

[00:16:25] Yeah.

[00:16:25] And doesn't it like have it weirdly flipped?

[00:16:28] Or whatever to where it's like on the back where like the plugs are, it's like exposed

[00:16:32] bits of the board.

[00:16:33] Yeah.

[00:16:33] It's plug right into, which is like, that's not safe, man.

[00:16:36] You straight up plug the AV into the board, which actually gives a really nice crisp signal

[00:16:42] for AV for like, if you're playing in a CRT, it looks fucking great.

[00:16:46] Yeah.

[00:16:46] But it's like, it feels like that's not safe.

[00:16:48] So I'm always, when I feel like it needs like, I mean, I'm no expert, but I feel like

[00:16:52] that should have some shielding or something.

[00:16:54] I don't know.

[00:16:55] I'm more worried that I'll plug it in and fucking snap the board, but that's.

[00:16:59] That too.

[00:17:00] That too.

[00:17:01] I mean, having exposed bits of a motherboard is not, not nice.

[00:17:06] I think the 3DO is fascinating.

[00:17:08] The Jaguar itself is a fucking fascinating piece of hardware.

[00:17:11] Yeah.

[00:17:12] Yeah.

[00:17:14] But yeah.

[00:17:16] So we are kind of loosely talking 3DO for this episode.

[00:17:21] We're doing another developer showcase.

[00:17:26] So we were kind of debating back and forward what developer to cover for this one.

[00:17:31] And we kind of, this one we kind of did as a stretch because there is a few games developed

[00:17:36] by this company on 3DO, but we chose it just because they're kind of relevant again, mostly

[00:17:43] for the one prominent figure that we'll be getting into.

[00:17:47] Yes.

[00:17:47] And that company is Bullfrog Productions.

[00:17:51] Yes.

[00:17:52] And for those of you who do not know, Bullfrog Productions was a, they were a British developer

[00:17:59] and they were founded when, like the late eighties, I think.

[00:18:02] 87.

[00:18:04] And we've already covered one of their games, Theme Park.

[00:18:08] And the other game they made for the 3DO is Syndicate, which we have not covered yet.

[00:18:13] But they were eventually acquired by EA.

[00:18:16] And then, of course, EA shut them down naturally.

[00:18:19] But why they are kind of relevant again is that the main man behind Bullfrog, or at least

[00:18:26] who people associate with, has resurfaced.

[00:18:30] One Mr. Peter Molyneux.

[00:18:32] Now, for those of you who don't know who Peter Molyneux is, he was a English game, or is an

[00:18:39] English game developer known for games like Theme Park.

[00:18:43] But most notably known for creating the Fable series for Xbox.

[00:18:49] And kind of becoming a meme around the Fable trilogy as being a guy who over promises.

[00:18:58] Yes.

[00:18:58] And would under deliver, I would say.

[00:19:00] Like, he's capable of making good games, but I think he goes overboard.

[00:19:06] Peter Molyneux to me is like, he is a very smart man who has very good ideas, but he is

[00:19:13] such a smug bastard that he'll, he like, he's one of those guys that thinks his shit doesn't

[00:19:19] stink.

[00:19:19] I'm convinced.

[00:19:20] I would agree with that.

[00:19:22] Like, he is.

[00:19:24] He definitely has that air of pretension where he legit, like, believes everything he does

[00:19:31] is perfect.

[00:19:32] But it rarely is.

[00:19:36] Which isn't saying that stuff he created was bad.

[00:19:38] It just, it was infamous for, it never met the full expectations of what he promised.

[00:19:43] Yeah.

[00:19:44] He's one of those guys that like, he knows he makes good games, which isn't necessarily

[00:19:48] a bad thing, but I think it prevents him from making better games.

[00:19:54] You know what I mean?

[00:19:55] Like, he's one of those guys that he works really well when he's in like a team, you know?

[00:20:00] Yeah.

[00:20:00] And when he has somebody, you know, telling him no, basically like say, like say during

[00:20:06] the bullfrog days, right?

[00:20:08] Like, like he had, like, he was still kind of young and hungry at that time.

[00:20:12] So I think it was a little bit different.

[00:20:14] But then when he formed Lionhead, the, the, the fable dev, like he had Microsoft basically

[00:20:20] to be like, Hey, maybe don't do this.

[00:20:22] Maybe don't do that.

[00:20:22] You know, that's back when people used to say Microsoft was, uh, was too hard on their

[00:20:27] dev studios.

[00:20:29] If you can believe that there was an arrow, like, I mean, ask Bungie about that.

[00:20:33] If anything, I think, I think people assume that because of Bungie, but then we've, we,

[00:20:37] over the years we've realized Bungie were just kind of difficult pricks.

[00:20:40] Oh yeah.

[00:20:41] Bungie have always been dicks.

[00:20:42] I think that's a safe thing to say.

[00:20:45] They've always kind of been dicks.

[00:20:47] I'm convinced these days that people will always say they ruined rare.

[00:20:52] I think rare ruined themselves.

[00:20:53] Um, that is something that I don't think Microsoft is responsible for what happened to rare.

[00:20:58] No.

[00:20:59] The slightest, um, Mojang, if anything, got bigger after they bought them.

[00:21:03] Oh yeah.

[00:21:04] Mojang are doing just fine.

[00:21:05] Yeah.

[00:21:06] I, I, I feel, I feel like if Mojang weren't bought by Microsoft, they probably would have

[00:21:10] done more riskier things and potentially damaged the Minecraft brand.

[00:21:15] Probably.

[00:21:16] Yeah.

[00:21:17] Um, cause honestly, when I think about it, the only dev that Microsoft really had problems

[00:21:22] with was Bungie, but I think that was more Bungie than Microsoft.

[00:21:26] Yeah.

[00:21:27] Yeah.

[00:21:28] I mean, nah, they were fine when it came to Epic.

[00:21:33] Yeah.

[00:21:34] They never owned Epic though.

[00:21:35] They just had a partnership.

[00:21:36] Yeah.

[00:21:37] Yeah.

[00:21:37] That's probably a little different.

[00:21:38] As far as I know, turn 10 and a playground are just fine.

[00:21:42] Yeah.

[00:21:42] They've never had issues.

[00:21:43] Uh, no issues with double fine or obsidian or.

[00:21:49] They're modern era.

[00:21:50] They've been pretty clean.

[00:21:51] Yeah.

[00:21:52] I mean, the, the only issues you see is like within the Bethesda and the Activision sections.

[00:21:59] And I don't even think that's Microsoft.

[00:22:01] I think that's more Microsoft is just kind of the background money bags and they kind of

[00:22:05] do their own thing.

[00:22:07] Sure.

[00:22:07] But like with the, the Bethesda studio closures that happened not that long ago, I mean, I'm

[00:22:12] sure Microsoft had the final say on that, but yeah, they probably looked at the numbers

[00:22:16] and just went, yeah, whatever.

[00:22:19] Yeah.

[00:22:19] Yeah.

[00:22:20] And then seeing the, and then seeing the crash five thing come out, which I believe that

[00:22:25] was well before Microsoft bought them.

[00:22:27] Yeah.

[00:22:28] It's just, it's just not shocking that like, you know, oh, crash four didn't sell as well

[00:22:32] as we wanted it to.

[00:22:33] So make more call of duty.

[00:22:35] You ass, you know, that kind of thing, which I'm glad Toys for Bob doesn't have to do that

[00:22:40] anymore.

[00:22:41] And I mean, Microsoft could revive that project, but I, I wouldn't bet on it.

[00:22:46] Yeah.

[00:22:46] I doubt it.

[00:22:47] Unfortunately.

[00:22:49] Um, Lionhead though, I feel like is a case where they bought, they bought the studio based

[00:22:53] off of Peter Molyneux reputation alone.

[00:22:55] And they kind of just let him do whatever.

[00:22:59] Basically.

[00:23:00] Cause they didn't just do fable.

[00:23:02] I compare it very much to Sony working with Kojima and just letting him do whatever the

[00:23:07] fuck he wanted.

[00:23:08] Yeah.

[00:23:09] Yeah.

[00:23:09] Which I, I have a feeling that's going to bite them in the ass.

[00:23:12] One of these days.

[00:23:12] The thing with coach.

[00:23:14] Well, just a little side tangent.

[00:23:15] The thing with Kojima is though.

[00:23:16] Kojima fans will buy anything that man creates.

[00:23:19] They're almost as bad as Pokemon fans.

[00:23:21] I'm guilty of it.

[00:23:22] Like I love Kojima shit because it's so fucking unhinged.

[00:23:27] Again, Kojima.

[00:23:27] I think is a lot similar to Peter Molyneux where he's a guy who he thinks his shit don't

[00:23:33] stink, you know?

[00:23:34] And he probably has a bit of a, a head about himself as a, as a creator.

[00:23:40] And I think death stranding is an example of a guy who doesn't have to, um, doesn't have

[00:23:47] to answer to anybody anymore.

[00:23:49] He can just kind of do what he wants.

[00:23:51] The one.

[00:23:52] And I know some people may crucify me when I say that, cause I think Kojima is still able

[00:23:56] of making a good video game, but at the same time, it, it's that thing.

[00:24:03] Like you can't be told you're like the greatest fucking thing ever for decades and have it

[00:24:10] not go to your head to some degree.

[00:24:11] True.

[00:24:12] You can't.

[00:24:13] The one difference I will say with Kojima over Molyneux is though, Kojima generally will

[00:24:18] deliver what he promises.

[00:24:20] Yes.

[00:24:21] The things he promises are so fucking outrageous sometimes.

[00:24:25] And I'm always like more power to you, I guess.

[00:24:28] But I think with Kojima, we know what to expect from him.

[00:24:33] Well, I mean like death stranding to me inherently is kind of a mess of a thing, but I love it because

[00:24:39] it is so fucking unhinged that it's like the most I've seen of death stranding is watching

[00:24:46] our friend Danny play it on stream last week and just being like, I feel like this game

[00:24:53] isn't that good.

[00:24:55] It's, it's an experience more than the game.

[00:24:57] It's kind of a thing where if you're in the mindset that this is Kojima just unhinged

[00:25:03] at his full potential and you're just into that, it's great.

[00:25:06] But if you're just trying to get a true gaming experience, it's probably not going to be for

[00:25:09] you.

[00:25:10] Yeah.

[00:25:11] And then people get mad when I say maybe Konami was right.

[00:25:14] Oh no, they might've been in all honesty.

[00:25:16] They might've been because I mean, those metal gear games, they're still pretty fucking good.

[00:25:20] They are.

[00:25:22] Honestly, death stranding, I feel like is death stranding is something that either you like

[00:25:27] or you don't.

[00:25:27] I think death stranding is one of those games that when we're like 10 plus years beyond it,

[00:25:34] it'll be curious to see what people actually think about it.

[00:25:37] Yeah.

[00:25:38] Honestly.

[00:25:38] You know, like when, like, I don't think Kojima like mania will ever really die because I think

[00:25:44] again, he's one of those guys that has like that cult fandom around him, which in some ways

[00:25:49] helps, but I think in some ways it hinders you because then it doesn't allow him to actually,

[00:25:53] you know, actually push the boundaries in the ways that he wants to.

[00:25:58] I mean, I'm very curious to that OD thing that he's doing with Xbox.

[00:26:02] Like, I'm very curious to what the heck is that going to be?

[00:26:05] Cause that seems like he's genuinely doing something very different and he's working with other

[00:26:10] people as well on that.

[00:26:12] So it's not just him.

[00:26:14] So we'll, we'll, we'll see how that goes.

[00:26:16] And I mean, I don't suspect Microsoft would just write him a blank check and say, do whatever

[00:26:19] you want.

[00:26:20] I don't think, I mean, who knows?

[00:26:22] It's Kojima.

[00:26:24] So sometimes you wonder, but he does have like, um, was it, um, Jordan Peele, he's working

[00:26:29] with him on it.

[00:26:30] So there is a bit of a collaboration there and collaborations can work.

[00:26:34] So I think, I think if, if Jordan Peele doesn't get enraptured in like the, the Kojima

[00:26:40] and this and actually like fights him on stuff, then I think you'll be all right.

[00:26:43] Cause again, like collaboration is usually the best outcome when it comes to anything creative,

[00:26:49] you know, like when people think of the Beatles, like what made them so work, Lennon McCartney.

[00:26:54] And, and they both talked about how they would go back and forth and, you know, and they would

[00:26:59] bounce ideas off of each other and they made each other better.

[00:27:02] You know?

[00:27:03] Whereas if it's just one guy at the helm doing everything, especially in this kind of medium,

[00:27:07] it might not work as well.

[00:27:09] So, you know, part of me, I'm curious to see that game.

[00:27:12] Cause there is a part of me that wonders if death stranding was just a one-off where he

[00:27:17] just had all his built up aggression and like, just like frustrations with Konami.

[00:27:23] He just wanted to finally just go nuts.

[00:27:26] And then that was his way of doing that.

[00:27:28] Well, we'll have to see what this next game I'm kind of under that impression just cause

[00:27:33] I feel like death stranding to me is literally just to me, like he threw everything at the wall

[00:27:38] just to see what would happen.

[00:27:39] Yeah.

[00:27:40] Yeah.

[00:27:40] It was one of those that like, when you're allowed to be creative on your own, you kind

[00:27:45] of like go overboard.

[00:27:47] Like, like George Harrison's all things was passed.

[00:27:49] He made a fucking triple album.

[00:27:50] Cause he was so.

[00:27:52] Yeah.

[00:27:52] But he like, cause he had so many songs.

[00:27:54] Right.

[00:27:54] But that album was amazing.

[00:27:56] Right.

[00:27:56] Well, where's like, where's death stranding?

[00:27:58] I think is just, it's a different beast entirely.

[00:28:02] You know?

[00:28:03] I think he just wanted to make something and that's what he came up with.

[00:28:08] Yeah, for sure.

[00:28:09] For sure.

[00:28:09] But, but I will say, I don't know, man.

[00:28:12] I just, again, I think having what, when you're doing something creative, I think having

[00:28:18] like peers or people you respect or even people you work with, like properly tell you what's

[00:28:24] like, not be afraid to tell you what's good, what's bad, what you need to fix or whatever

[00:28:28] genuinely makes your product better.

[00:28:30] You know?

[00:28:32] Yeah.

[00:28:32] That's why I say we'll, we'll have to wait and see on that next game.

[00:28:35] Well, he's doing death stranding too.

[00:28:38] True.

[00:28:39] Maybe, maybe death stranding is.

[00:28:40] That is what I'm not confident in at all.

[00:28:43] We'll have to see.

[00:28:45] Death stranding might just be that whole insanity series that just is what it is.

[00:28:50] And you either like it or don't.

[00:28:51] Yeah.

[00:28:51] I mean, death stranding too.

[00:28:52] It could be the straw that breaks the camel's back where people go, wait a minute.

[00:28:56] Maybe this is not good.

[00:28:58] You know?

[00:28:58] Cause I don't know.

[00:28:59] I just think people have this idea that Kojima can never miss.

[00:29:01] And it's like, no, he's a human.

[00:29:03] He's capable of missing.

[00:29:05] Yeah.

[00:29:06] I mean, I'm trying to think he hasn't yet, but.

[00:29:10] Well, he may have.

[00:29:12] I'm not sure.

[00:29:14] I'm trying to think.

[00:29:15] Cause I'm like all the metal gear games really.

[00:29:18] There isn't a bad one.

[00:29:20] I'm just looking through all this stuff here.

[00:29:27] I wouldn't, I wouldn't put the acid games on him.

[00:29:30] But he really, he's mostly a.

[00:29:32] He's on the, he's the metal gear guy.

[00:29:35] Yeah.

[00:29:36] I mean, I'm not a big MGS four guy.

[00:29:39] I'm not.

[00:29:40] I mean.

[00:29:41] Yeah.

[00:29:42] I mean, that's fair.

[00:29:42] I love it because it's the greatest movie I've ever played.

[00:29:48] Yeah.

[00:29:48] Fair enough.

[00:29:49] Fair enough.

[00:29:50] But yeah.

[00:29:50] Like, you know, police knots and snatcher.

[00:29:52] Those are great.

[00:29:53] Yeah.

[00:29:54] But that's.

[00:29:55] But that's.

[00:29:56] Zone of the Enders was pretty cool.

[00:29:57] Zone of the Enders is cool.

[00:29:58] For sure.

[00:29:58] The Voktai games are pretty cool.

[00:30:02] And yeah.

[00:30:03] All the other metal gears are.

[00:30:04] Are pretty solid.

[00:30:05] I mean, he, he was very likely going to make the greatest silent

[00:30:08] hell game ever made.

[00:30:10] Yeah.

[00:30:11] I don't know about that.

[00:30:12] I wanted to see it.

[00:30:14] Cause PT was fucking effective.

[00:30:16] Yeah.

[00:30:16] I mean, I would.

[00:30:17] Yeah.

[00:30:18] But like PT.

[00:30:20] It worked because it was such a.

[00:30:22] Like it came out of nowhere kind of thing.

[00:30:24] And was like, what the fuck is this kind of thing?

[00:30:27] It had that shock value to it.

[00:30:28] You know what I mean?

[00:30:30] But I mean, we'll never know what it actually could have been.

[00:30:33] If it could have been anything good or bad.

[00:30:34] But like, would it have been as good as say silent hill two or

[00:30:37] silent hill three?

[00:30:39] I don't know about that.

[00:30:40] Again.

[00:30:40] It's hard to say.

[00:30:41] Like, like again, team silent.

[00:30:43] That was a very lightning in a bottle situation that like Konami decided to

[00:30:48] fucking ruin for some reason.

[00:30:49] Cause I don't think they were done after the room.

[00:30:52] I don't think they were.

[00:30:53] I think they had more going, but.

[00:30:55] I think it's because Konami thought Americans could do it better.

[00:30:57] Well, actually not even Americans.

[00:30:58] The British could do it better.

[00:31:00] Yeah.

[00:31:00] The West.

[00:31:01] The West.

[00:31:02] Yeah.

[00:31:02] And that didn't really work out, but I think silent hill F is being done by a

[00:31:08] non-Western studio.

[00:31:10] So we'll see.

[00:31:13] Yeah.

[00:31:14] But on that note, back to Peter Molyneux.

[00:31:19] Yeah.

[00:31:20] He, the man was his own worst enemy at times.

[00:31:26] Yeah.

[00:31:28] But I will say his time at Bullfrog was probably the most strongest.

[00:31:34] He probably was as a creator.

[00:31:39] Potentially.

[00:31:40] I mean, I think it depends on what you rate the Fable games.

[00:31:43] You know, the, the trilogy.

[00:31:45] Fable two is definitely a world-class game.

[00:31:49] In my opinion.

[00:31:49] I mean, people love Fable one.

[00:31:51] Fable one is good.

[00:31:53] I know my buddy Matt is really big into it.

[00:31:56] But I, I felt like Fable one was very unf, not unfinished, but it felt like it was, the

[00:32:03] potential was there, but it just didn't reach it to like they hit the potential of what that

[00:32:07] kind of series could be.

[00:32:08] Yeah.

[00:32:09] I could see that.

[00:32:09] It was probably limited by the console at the time.

[00:32:12] And when I've played a Fable one, I don't hate the game, but it's definitely nowadays,

[00:32:17] I think more just a relic.

[00:32:19] It's a very, it's a very dry feeling game to me.

[00:32:22] Yeah.

[00:32:23] Whereas Fable two has aged very well.

[00:32:25] Yes.

[00:32:26] And then people hate Fable three for some reason, which I honestly don't understand

[00:32:31] because some, I don't get the vibe that Fable three is a bad game.

[00:32:34] But from what I've heard, you, the people that hate it, it's for very weird reasons.

[00:32:39] Cause most people I know do enjoy it.

[00:32:40] Like I know Matt said he really liked it.

[00:32:43] Yeah.

[00:32:43] Um, Matt's a huge Fable guy.

[00:32:45] So I take his word for it.

[00:32:47] That's fair.

[00:32:48] Um, interestingly enough, I always found the bullfrogs downfall.

[00:32:54] Wasn't the EA buyout.

[00:32:56] It was when Molyneux left.

[00:32:57] Cause Molyneux was kind of the guy that was keeping EA off their backs for the, for a while.

[00:33:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:04] Cause the second he left, that's when like, they really started going downhill.

[00:33:09] So he at least had some sort of sway at the time.

[00:33:14] Well, he was one of the founders, wasn't he?

[00:33:16] It was founded by him and, uh, Les Edgar.

[00:33:20] Yeah.

[00:33:21] Um.

[00:33:22] So, yeah.

[00:33:22] And they had like, and they had a decent pedigree at the time with the, some of the games that

[00:33:26] they had made.

[00:33:27] Um, I mean, hell, that's probably why EA bought them.

[00:33:30] You know what I mean?

[00:33:31] Oh yeah.

[00:33:32] I mean like it's similar to like why EA bought like Origin Systems, Maxis at the time they were

[00:33:36] making great games and EA was publishing them and they figured why not just get rid of the

[00:33:40] middleman and we'll just do every level to help out with everything.

[00:33:44] Yeah.

[00:33:44] Cause you can tell like Peter Molyneux left Bullfrog, I think it was in 97.

[00:33:48] Like the last game he made for them was Dungeon Keeper.

[00:33:51] And if you look through their gamography, you can kind of tell where the, like the cut is,

[00:33:56] you know?

[00:33:57] Cause then I feel, cause then after that, they're just kind of resorting to franchises that they've

[00:34:01] already done and just kind of rehashing them, you know?

[00:34:05] Yeah.

[00:34:06] Like Populous, the beginning theme aquarium, Dungeon Keeper 2.

[00:34:10] Theme Park World.

[00:34:12] Yeah.

[00:34:13] Theme Park Inc.

[00:34:15] Yeah.

[00:34:15] Which is so crazy that like theme park, we talked about in the theme park episode where

[00:34:19] it predated like Rollercoaster Tycoon and sort of like the, the management sim boom of the

[00:34:24] early 2000s with like SimCity kind of reaching its peak and then the Sims debuting and all that

[00:34:29] stuff.

[00:34:30] Like it was right there.

[00:34:32] Like theme park was right there, like kind of building the foundation and it wasn't able

[00:34:36] to like capitalize on setting that foundation.

[00:34:39] And I think that's because key figures left and EA just didn't really know when to jump

[00:34:46] on that trend.

[00:34:47] I mean, they tried making that theme park game for DS, but that, but by that point it was

[00:34:52] kind of gone, you know?

[00:34:53] And the theme park games that they did make say after Molineux left, they just, they're

[00:34:57] not as well regarded.

[00:34:59] Yeah.

[00:34:59] Like theme park world is very boring.

[00:35:03] I will say.

[00:35:04] Yeah.

[00:35:05] And theme park Inc.

[00:35:06] I've never even played.

[00:35:08] That being said though, I, one thing I find very interesting about like Bullfrog's like

[00:35:14] release history is like they, most people know them for like guide games, like God games

[00:35:20] and stuff, but they also had a lot of guide games.

[00:35:23] I said guide games at first.

[00:35:25] I was like, that's not right.

[00:35:28] God games.

[00:35:29] And, but they also made a lot of shoot them ups, like action games, platformers early on.

[00:35:35] Yeah.

[00:35:35] Yeah.

[00:35:36] It was a, what was the word?

[00:35:39] I like a hodgepodge of just kind of random shit.

[00:35:42] Like their first mega game was populous, which I actually have played a bit of populous.

[00:35:47] It is.

[00:35:47] It's very dated by nowadays standards, but like as an early, like isometric, like kind

[00:35:52] of like God Sim, it's not bad.

[00:35:55] It's interesting.

[00:35:56] I'll say that.

[00:35:58] I occasionally get interested in the God game, but then like the concept kind of scares me

[00:36:03] and I run away.

[00:36:04] Yeah.

[00:36:04] It can go self on you very quickly.

[00:36:06] I have it on the Genesis.

[00:36:08] It's not bad.

[00:36:09] Yeah.

[00:36:10] I mean like in a weird way, like Actraiser has elements of that, even though I'd say that's

[00:36:15] more of like a, like a, like a Sim City mixed with like an action game.

[00:36:19] Hmm.

[00:36:19] Yeah.

[00:36:20] But Actraiser is fucking awesome.

[00:36:21] Um, and then there's that one, I think it's released on like the 360.

[00:36:26] I can't think of its name, but that's kind of like, like a more modern example of a, of

[00:36:32] a God game that people, people kind of liked, I think.

[00:36:36] Um, I'd have to find the name of it.

[00:36:39] Was it made by Peter Molyneux or?

[00:36:42] No.

[00:36:44] At least I don't think it was.

[00:36:47] I'm trying to think.

[00:36:49] Cause I think I know what you're talking about.

[00:36:53] Oh, they also made this.

[00:36:54] This is just funny to me.

[00:36:55] They made a, uh, a puzzle game called bullfrogger.

[00:37:01] It was only available on them.

[00:37:03] It was only available on Amiga and it doesn't even have a Wikipedia page, but it exists.

[00:37:07] That's amazing.

[00:37:08] The game I was thinking that was from dust.

[00:37:10] From dust.

[00:37:11] I remember that one, which was done by the beyond good and evil guy or no, the, no, the

[00:37:17] another world, heart of darkness guy.

[00:37:19] Oh, I got to replay that.

[00:37:22] Cause I love his work.

[00:37:24] Yeah.

[00:37:24] Yeah.

[00:37:24] He, yeah.

[00:37:25] Another world or at this world, heart of darkness.

[00:37:27] And then like from dust was like, uh, the next major game he made after heart of darkness.

[00:37:33] It was a long time.

[00:37:35] I'll have to give that another shot.

[00:37:37] Yeah.

[00:37:37] That's why I wanted to check it out.

[00:37:38] Cause I was curious to it, but like, you know, I'd rather just play heart of darkness.

[00:37:42] Yeah.

[00:37:43] Um, I think another major game that a bullfrog made was syndicate, which we will be covering

[00:37:48] later on in the, uh, the show at some point.

[00:37:51] Yeah.

[00:37:51] That's, that's, that's going to be an interesting one.

[00:37:53] Cause I believe this game is, yeah, it's like a real time tactics strategy kind of thing

[00:37:59] with like shoot them up elements.

[00:38:01] Yeah.

[00:38:02] Yeah.

[00:38:02] It reminds me of shadow run a little bit.

[00:38:05] Very similar concept minus less RPG elements.

[00:38:09] I would say.

[00:38:10] Yeah.

[00:38:10] And syndicate and syndicate was on basically everything at the time.

[00:38:15] It's on the three deal and the Jaguar, which is always a very interesting thing to me.

[00:38:20] Yeah.

[00:38:21] It was on the shit.

[00:38:21] I got to play this for the Genesis stream eventually.

[00:38:24] Cause it was on there as well.

[00:38:26] We also had magic carpet, which was a.

[00:38:30] I'm going to ride games.

[00:38:34] Um, it was one of those early 3d, like kind of like flying around kind of games.

[00:38:39] This game surprises me.

[00:38:41] It didn't come to 3d.

[00:38:42] Oh, it feels like it would have fit right in.

[00:38:44] Honestly.

[00:38:45] Yeah.

[00:38:45] I feel like it was, I guess they just kind of gave up on 3d.

[00:38:48] Oh, but actually no, they couldn't have because theme park came out after it.

[00:38:51] Yeah.

[00:38:51] Like this came out in 94 on DOS and then 96 was when it got its console ports.

[00:38:56] So maybe by the time they were doing the console ports, they were like, eh, who cares?

[00:39:00] Yeah.

[00:39:00] 3d was already dead by then.

[00:39:02] Yeah.

[00:39:04] Uh, theme park though.

[00:39:05] That was another mega one.

[00:39:06] What's funny about the, the theme park game is they actually kind of had a rivalry with

[00:39:10] Maxis at the time.

[00:39:11] Cause they also did like theme hospital.

[00:39:14] Um, and to me theme hospital was actually like better than the, the sim Maxis's sim

[00:39:20] hospital.

[00:39:21] Cause like theme hospital was goofy as fuck.

[00:39:24] Uh, meanwhile, like sim hospital was like very sterile and trying to be a little sim game.

[00:39:29] Yeah.

[00:39:29] Yeah.

[00:39:30] Like theme hospital works with, yeah.

[00:39:33] By like not taking it so seriously, which I think is, yeah.

[00:39:37] Why you said why people really like it and why the series still kind of goes on today

[00:39:42] because a two point hospital was created as a spiritual successor to theme hospital.

[00:39:48] And of course EA being the smart people that they are, let, let this studio make this

[00:39:54] and let Sega publish it.

[00:39:56] Not them.

[00:39:57] Hmm.

[00:39:58] Um, cause you, cause you think it would have made easy sense.

[00:40:02] Like, I mean, I don't know if two point pitched to EA and maybe EA said, no, I don't know, but

[00:40:07] I could, I could, I couldn't imagine like working for EA.

[00:40:11] Right.

[00:40:11] And then seeing this game being made, that's like, Oh, this is very similar to, um, you

[00:40:17] know, like theme hospital.

[00:40:18] Why not, you know, take these guys, buy them up, just call this theme hospital and release

[00:40:23] it.

[00:40:25] You know what I mean?

[00:40:26] It was one of those cases where the funds just weren't available at the time and they

[00:40:30] figured they'd let it come out, but they wouldn't, they just didn't want to take the effort.

[00:40:35] I guess.

[00:40:36] My, my guess is EA just didn't care.

[00:40:38] Most likely.

[00:40:39] Cause EA, it's hard, it's hard for EA to care sometimes.

[00:40:43] Yeah.

[00:40:43] And then, I mean, there might be a chance they've seen the success of this game and then the

[00:40:48] subsequent sequels with two point campus and the upcoming two point museum.

[00:40:52] And maybe went, ah, shit, we probably should have did something with them.

[00:40:56] Maybe, you know, who knows?

[00:40:58] Cause apparently, oh, it was, it was a two point was founded by guys who worked on theme

[00:41:04] hospital, uh, Ben Hymers, Mark Webley and Gary Carr.

[00:41:09] Hmm.

[00:41:10] And they'd worked on those games and even the fucking fable games.

[00:41:13] Oh yeah.

[00:41:14] They were, so they were Molyneux guys, you know, which is, and so they had to have pitched

[00:41:19] to EA or maybe they were just like, fuck EA.

[00:41:21] Okay.

[00:41:22] And, uh, and when the, when into dealings with Sega and now Sega just owns them.

[00:41:28] You know, honestly, considering how poorly the EA split, what will EA's treatment of

[00:41:33] Bullfrog after Molyneux left was, I wouldn't have surprised me if they avoided EA like the

[00:41:37] plague now that I think about it.

[00:41:38] Yeah.

[00:41:38] And they're just like, Hey, let's just, you know, let's hitch our ride to Sonic.

[00:41:42] Yeah.

[00:41:43] I mean, especially at that point.

[00:41:45] Has Sonic made a cameo in any of these games?

[00:41:47] I feel like he's had to.

[00:41:48] Yeah.

[00:41:50] There's gotta be like some Sonic iconography in like two point hospital or whatever.

[00:41:54] Like you can wear a Sonic, like you can wear a Sonic hat, you know?

[00:42:00] Yeah.

[00:42:01] Um, looking at like the rest of like, um, the major releases from, uh, Bullfrog, like there

[00:42:07] was Dungeon Keeper, which was kind of like a top down strategy God game in its own right.

[00:42:12] Um, it looks like something that like you would have, it was definitely a PC only game at

[00:42:17] the time.

[00:42:18] Um, yeah.

[00:42:19] Molyneux is really into making God games for some reason.

[00:42:22] God games and like simulation games in a sense.

[00:42:27] Um, they were all very well received from what I've heard.

[00:42:30] They're just kind of, they haven't stood the test of time the same way.

[00:42:35] Like the Sid Meier stuff has, or even like SimCity.

[00:42:38] Yeah.

[00:42:39] Some of the Maxis stuff, like Maxis stuff has held up very well.

[00:42:43] I mean, even, even the old civilization games like hold that better than you'd think.

[00:42:47] Oh yeah.

[00:42:49] Yeah.

[00:42:50] It's funny how like, I'm looking at reception stuff and it's like the first game Molyneux

[00:42:54] was not involved with.

[00:42:56] Populous.

[00:42:56] The beginning actually was pretty well received.

[00:42:59] It got like 80%.

[00:43:00] So they probably, I assume they were still on somewhat stable ground, but then like the

[00:43:04] next game was like SimAquarium, which.

[00:43:08] SimAquarium.

[00:43:09] Yeah.

[00:43:10] Which sounds like a horrible idea.

[00:43:14] Yeah.

[00:43:15] What's funny though is like some of the games that they made because they were both owned

[00:43:19] by EA.

[00:43:20] I know ThemeParkWorld was actually released as SimThemepark or yeah, SimThemepark over

[00:43:26] here.

[00:43:27] Yeah.

[00:43:28] Just because they said fuck it and just kind of used both names.

[00:43:32] So bad.

[00:43:33] Yeah.

[00:43:34] Cause like ThemeAquarium, like I'm assuming it's not a game where you just stare at a

[00:43:38] fishbowl the whole time.

[00:43:40] Like there has to be more to it than that.

[00:43:42] This ain't Seaman over here.

[00:43:45] This is why, this is why I don't, didn't remember ThemePark Inc.

[00:43:50] So the reason why I couldn't remember ThemePark Inc.

[00:43:52] is because it was known as SimCoaster over here.

[00:43:56] That's why.

[00:43:57] That's gross.

[00:43:59] Well, the Sims brand was probably stronger at that point.

[00:44:03] Yeah.

[00:44:03] But like, but people knew the ThemePark brand.

[00:44:08] True.

[00:44:10] I don't know.

[00:44:11] I don't know.

[00:44:11] I just, again, EA being really dumb.

[00:44:14] Yeah.

[00:44:15] Bullfrog's interesting.

[00:44:17] Like they started off, they had a lot of games with great character.

[00:44:20] And then, but they're like legacy wise.

[00:44:23] Like a lot of their games kind of nowadays don't hold up nearly as well as they did back

[00:44:28] then.

[00:44:29] They're definitely a studio that laid a lot of groundwork that other studios have, you

[00:44:36] know, driven on since then.

[00:44:38] You know what I mean?

[00:44:38] Like Bullfrog are definitely one of those studios that if you're like a dev or if you're in the

[00:44:45] industry and you're making games like this, you probably grew up playing on playing these

[00:44:50] kind of games.

[00:44:51] And you're like, oh, these games are fucking great.

[00:44:53] Or you hold them in like really high regard.

[00:44:56] But if you're trying to play them nowadays, it just doesn't work.

[00:45:00] You know, like, like Bullfrog, I would say are very similar to Origin Systems who are also

[00:45:05] bought by EA, you know, like a like a studio that was known for some very groundbreaking stuff.

[00:45:13] But what you find in the gaming world is a lot of stuff that was groundbreaking and helped,

[00:45:21] you know, push us to where we are now.

[00:45:22] You try to go back and play it without sort of the modern quality of life features that

[00:45:26] we're so used to.

[00:45:28] And a lot of those games just don't hold up anymore, sadly.

[00:45:30] Like some old games hold up incredibly well or, you know, they kind of become their own

[00:45:35] beasts.

[00:45:36] But, you know, like old PC games, I find do not age well.

[00:45:41] No, some some do very well, but a lot do not.

[00:45:45] Yeah.

[00:45:46] Like the original Sims is still fun to play by today's statement because it's it's much

[00:45:50] simpler than the other Sims games, but it's still kind of like the same idea.

[00:45:54] Sims 2 also held up pretty well.

[00:45:57] Yeah.

[00:45:57] Sims 2 holds up pretty well.

[00:45:58] Like the old roller coaster tycoons, I love still playing those to this day.

[00:46:03] Even as I said, some of the older civilization games are still pretty solid.

[00:46:06] Like even if you want, say, an older experience on those.

[00:46:09] Right.

[00:46:10] Or say even the original SimCity or even say the Super Nintendo SimCity, which people kind

[00:46:16] of put on a pedestal because of the Nintendo branding.

[00:46:18] But, you know, Nintendo did put their charm into SimCity.

[00:46:21] So it's just pretty cool.

[00:46:23] But yeah, a lot of other PC games just do not hold up really well.

[00:46:28] And I've never played a Populous.

[00:46:29] It doesn't look like a game I would get any enjoyment out of.

[00:46:33] It's like a Minecraft where I'd mess around with it for a little bit and be like, OK, I'm done.

[00:46:39] I feel like it's a game that if you if you like got really into, it'd be really fun.

[00:46:44] But like, oh, yeah.

[00:46:45] I don't have the mindset for it.

[00:46:47] Yeah.

[00:46:47] Like those kind of games are like that becomes certain people's game.

[00:46:51] You know what I mean?

[00:46:52] Like like some like those dudes who put thousands of hours in the civilization.

[00:46:55] Like that's their shit.

[00:46:57] So yeah.

[00:46:58] And it's I respect that.

[00:47:00] That's awesome that you're able to devote that much time and attention to one very specific

[00:47:05] kind of game.

[00:47:07] But I think you and me are very different to where it's like we need variety.

[00:47:12] We need to play other things.

[00:47:13] Yeah.

[00:47:13] You know, so one thing I actually wanted to bring up was like the pedigree of Bullfrog's

[00:47:21] like the people that worked at Bullfrog.

[00:47:23] Like once Bullfrog went under basically all of those really good, talented people they had

[00:47:28] kind of split off into a whole bunch of different companies over the years.

[00:47:32] Like obviously Lionhead was the big one that we had mentioned earlier.

[00:47:37] We'll get into them a little bit more later.

[00:47:39] There's also Monkey Foot Productions.

[00:47:41] They went on to make like Urban Chaos, Startopia, Blade 2.

[00:47:45] They closed in 0-3 so they didn't last super long.

[00:47:49] Lost Toys.

[00:47:50] I don't really know much about Lost Toys, but the one that I know a lot about, Media Molecule,

[00:47:56] who famously made Little Big Planet, Tearaway Dreams, like very creative studio.

[00:48:05] And you can see a lot of like the pedigree of Bullfrog went there, but they stuck to more

[00:48:12] of the whole, they went to creation, but they tried to make like games around creation,

[00:48:16] which I think worked a lot better.

[00:48:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:48:21] Because like, I mean, I don't know if the Little Big Planet series has held up that well.

[00:48:26] I think, again, I think it depends on who you ask.

[00:48:29] Because I know people were clowning on those games at the time.

[00:48:32] Where they, where I remember some people with Little Big Planet saying like,

[00:48:35] oh, there's a lot of creation tools in here.

[00:48:37] That's cool.

[00:48:38] I just wish it was a good game.

[00:48:40] Like people were not a fan of the platforming in those games.

[00:48:43] You know, and maybe.

[00:48:45] I think they're fine.

[00:48:46] Yeah, I haven't played them, so I can't really say.

[00:48:48] And maybe it's like, again, when a dev that's not known for making those kind of games

[00:48:53] then starts making those kind of games, it can be kind of difficult.

[00:48:57] I mean, Tim Schafer talked about when he left LucasArts and Formed Double Fine,

[00:49:02] and the first game that they made was Psychonauts.

[00:49:05] And he's talked about how like making a platformer after years of making adventure games

[00:49:12] really was like the huge challenge.

[00:49:15] Because these guys didn't really understand like jump arcs and the physics

[00:49:18] and all that kind of stuff.

[00:49:19] They were able to craft a very good game out of it.

[00:49:21] But it took them a lot more effort than they were expecting.

[00:49:26] Yeah.

[00:49:27] You know, I imagine the Little Big Planet guys would tell you the exact same thing.

[00:49:29] They're like making a platformer for the first time.

[00:49:32] It's like, oh shit, this is way more harder than we thought it would be.

[00:49:36] I'll say Little Big Planet 1 is a little rough too,

[00:49:39] although I still find to be a really great game.

[00:49:42] I mean, they're still technically making them with that new Sackboy game.

[00:49:45] The Sackboy game's great, but it's also just Super Mario 3D World.

[00:49:50] Oh, okay.

[00:49:51] But not as good.

[00:49:54] Depends who you ask, because I thought it was just as good, honestly.

[00:49:57] Okay.

[00:49:58] Because I think 3D World's kind of underrated.

[00:50:01] I mean, 3D World definitely has the Mario edge to it,

[00:50:04] but like Sackboy was really good.

[00:50:07] Yeah, yeah.

[00:50:08] Then the other studios were like Big Blue Box Studios,

[00:50:11] who apparently just kind of merged into Lionhead very shortly after their founding.

[00:50:16] And 22 Cans, that's Molyneux.

[00:50:18] Ooh, oh boy.

[00:50:20] Her studio.

[00:50:21] We'll get to that.

[00:50:23] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:50:23] And then we had said earlier 2.0, who are now owned by Sega.

[00:50:28] Yep.

[00:50:28] So yeah, so Lionhead was, yeah, the big one that Molyneux moved on to

[00:50:32] and made the Fable games, and then the Black and White series.

[00:50:35] Black and White is a game that I feel like is really good,

[00:50:40] but it was the same thing.

[00:50:42] He promised so much shit, and it just didn't deliver.

[00:50:45] Yeah, and then I totally forgot they made the movies.

[00:50:49] Hmm.

[00:50:49] I totally forgot that they did that.

[00:50:52] Do you remember that weird Kinect demo that they made?

[00:50:57] Project Melo.

[00:50:59] That is still the weirdest fucking thing ever.

[00:51:02] It was very strange.

[00:51:05] It's, you know how people dog on people talking to AI these days?

[00:51:10] Yeah.

[00:51:11] They were saying the exact same shit about this.

[00:51:14] Wasn't it revealed that-

[00:51:15] It's like uncanny, and it's just kind of weird.

[00:51:18] And I remember people saying,

[00:51:19] there is no way that game responds as well to you

[00:51:24] as that kid does to that woman in that presentation.

[00:51:28] Yes, it was the-

[00:51:29] I don't think it was the Xbox One presentation.

[00:51:33] No, because this was going to be for the 360.

[00:51:35] This was when they unveiled the Kinect for the first time.

[00:51:38] That E3.

[00:51:39] It was like 2009, I think, when Microsoft decided to pivot towards Kinect.

[00:51:45] Like, way too hard.

[00:51:46] I think we can all agree now.

[00:51:48] Like, way too hard.

[00:51:49] Yeah.

[00:51:50] Because the whole thing is like, you have that awkward Kinectimals section.

[00:51:54] Virtual trip to Disneyland.

[00:51:56] I'll still never forget that one.

[00:51:58] Oh, what?

[00:51:59] Disneyland Adventure?

[00:52:00] Kinect Disneyland Adventure?

[00:52:01] Like, that game, I'm told, actually isn't that bad.

[00:52:04] And they've actually re-released it without Kinect.

[00:52:07] If you want to play it.

[00:52:09] There was, but there was that really cool, like, Sesame Street game

[00:52:14] that Tim Schafer made for it that people seem to really like.

[00:52:17] There's also Happy Action Theater.

[00:52:19] But, yeah, like, Project Milo.

[00:52:21] I think it was Milo.

[00:52:23] Yeah.

[00:52:23] Yeah, where they were like, oh, you can just, like,

[00:52:26] chat with this random kid about stuff.

[00:52:28] You know?

[00:52:29] It was basically Seaman.

[00:52:31] Kind of.

[00:52:31] Yeah.

[00:52:32] I've read rumors, though, that the entire thing was faked.

[00:52:35] Like, it didn't actually work.

[00:52:36] I would not be surprised one bit.

[00:52:39] Because.

[00:52:40] Because when we saw that, I remember all the reactions were

[00:52:43] there was no fucking way that thing works as well as it does

[00:52:47] in that demonstration.

[00:52:48] There was no shot.

[00:52:49] Especially in, like, in 2024, it wouldn't work that well.

[00:52:53] Imagine 2009.

[00:52:55] See, the thing I remember most from that year's E3 was, like,

[00:52:59] it was, like, both companies were going super hard on motion controls.

[00:53:04] PS3.

[00:53:04] Sony didn't go that hard on the move.

[00:53:06] Sony didn't go that hard, but they went super hard on that Harry Potter shit.

[00:53:10] Yeah.

[00:53:11] Basically, when they had the move, they just, like, showed it real quick

[00:53:14] to see if it would gain any steam.

[00:53:17] It gamed a little bit.

[00:53:18] But then when they knew it wasn't going to be a big thing,

[00:53:21] they were just like, okay, and they fell back.

[00:53:23] Whereas Microsoft tried way too hard.

[00:53:25] Yeah, they doubled down.

[00:53:26] I mean, to their credit, the Kinect sold really well

[00:53:29] and did keep Microsoft's console sales at a high point at that point.

[00:53:34] I mean, hell, the best-selling 360 game is a Kinect game.

[00:53:37] So it did really well for a while.

[00:53:41] I don't think it – it didn't ruin Microsoft's reputation,

[00:53:44] but it was kind of the beginning of them kind of hurting their reputation

[00:53:48] in gaming at that point.

[00:53:50] Because that's when they introduced, like, the Avatars,

[00:53:53] and it felt like they were trying too hard to make the 360 the Wii.

[00:53:56] Like, they thought they had conquered Sony.

[00:53:58] They thought they had beaten them.

[00:54:00] So they're like, all right, now let's try to beat Nintendo.

[00:54:03] And it just – it wasn't going to happen.

[00:54:05] And they hadn't even beaten Sony yet.

[00:54:08] Yeah.

[00:54:08] Like, Sony – they were ahead of Sony, but Sony wasn't.

[00:54:11] They were.

[00:54:11] They were ahead of them for most of that generation.

[00:54:14] Yeah.

[00:54:14] To me, like – which is hilarious, too,

[00:54:16] because, like, Nintendo was coasting at that point.

[00:54:20] Like, they had already kind of peaked out and, like –

[00:54:22] Yeah, by 2009, 2010, like, the Wii had already done what it did, right?

[00:54:28] Yeah.

[00:54:28] And it went from being that thing everybody wants

[00:54:31] to now you go into stores and it's just there everywhere

[00:54:34] and nothing's moving.

[00:54:35] I think what happened was –

[00:54:36] Because all the –

[00:54:37] Go ahead.

[00:54:38] I was going to say, I think what happened was, like,

[00:54:41] Sony and Microsoft jumped really hard into the motion stuff

[00:54:44] after the point where people kind of lost interest.

[00:54:47] Like, in that – because you could tell by that point,

[00:54:49] Nintendo was mostly coasting and the best Nintendo games

[00:54:52] were the ones that barely used motion controls.

[00:54:54] Yeah, like Mario Galaxy 2 and all that stuff.

[00:54:57] But, yeah, because –

[00:54:59] Because I think what happened with Nintendo was, like,

[00:55:02] they really hit the casual market at that right time.

[00:55:05] Like, right before smartphones took all the casual gamers, right?

[00:55:09] And I just remember so many people having Wiis

[00:55:14] and they would have maybe a game or two

[00:55:15] and it was just collecting dust.

[00:55:17] Like, I'm sure if you go into a random-ass Midwestern house,

[00:55:21] there is a –

[00:55:23] I would say at least a 75% chance they have a Wii

[00:55:26] somewhere in that house.

[00:55:27] You know, it might still be sitting next to the TV

[00:55:29] and they're like, oh, we booted up once in a while.

[00:55:33] Play some Wii tennis and then shut it off.

[00:55:35] Yeah, yeah.

[00:55:36] Like, it was very much a fad.

[00:55:38] And, like, the people who had them

[00:55:40] who really played games on them were few and far between.

[00:55:44] So I think that's what happened with the Wii.

[00:55:46] And by 2010, it feels like the games,

[00:55:50] they were trying harder to make games for that core audience.

[00:55:54] Oh, yeah.

[00:55:54] Because that's when you got, like, Other M, Galaxy 2,

[00:55:57] Skyward Sword and all that.

[00:55:58] But they still had that one-foot dragging in the motion stuff,

[00:56:02] you know?

[00:56:02] So I just think by that point they were cooked,

[00:56:07] but I don't think they realized they were cooked yet.

[00:56:09] That's also when the 3DS was happening.

[00:56:12] And we all remember the 3DS didn't have the best launch.

[00:56:17] No?

[00:56:18] I remember.

[00:56:18] I remember.

[00:56:19] I remember.

[00:56:20] Because Fire Emblem came out at just the right time,

[00:56:21] and it fucking saved two things at once.

[00:56:23] It was amazing.

[00:56:24] Well, the price drop saved the 3DS.

[00:56:26] The price drop and, like,

[00:56:28] because the biggest complaint was there was no games for the 3DS

[00:56:30] for the longest time.

[00:56:31] And then, like, Fire Emblem was, like,

[00:56:32] that one unique game that came out

[00:56:34] and not only helped the 3DS,

[00:56:36] but saved a franchise.

[00:56:38] So...

[00:56:38] Yeah, yeah.

[00:56:39] It was a perfect crossing.

[00:56:40] I remember when they first showed the 3DS,

[00:56:42] I played the, like, demo version of it at GameStop,

[00:56:46] and I remember playing Street Fighter 4 on that thing,

[00:56:49] which was, like, the main game to be like,

[00:56:51] oh, look how powerful this thing is.

[00:56:52] It can run Street Fighter 4.

[00:56:54] And I was like, yeah, this thing's cool,

[00:56:55] but, like, this 3DS isn't very comfortable.

[00:56:58] No, it really wasn't.

[00:56:59] No, the original 3DS model is fucking bad.

[00:57:02] Plus, to get the effect, you had to have it just right.

[00:57:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:57:06] Mm-hmm.

[00:57:06] Oh, man.

[00:57:07] Like, I have an old 3DS XL,

[00:57:09] and that thing, it's not as bad to get the 3D effect out of,

[00:57:13] but, you know, I usually just keep it off.

[00:57:16] That's why I use a 2DS more than anything these days.

[00:57:19] Fair enough, fair enough.

[00:57:20] I just, I don't want to shell out the money

[00:57:22] for, like, a new 3DS XL.

[00:57:24] Like, it's roughly Switch price,

[00:57:25] and I'm like, I'm not paying that for a 3DS,

[00:57:28] especially one that I can't connect to the internet now.

[00:57:31] Like, I would just have to buy, like, an S...

[00:57:32] I would have to mod it,

[00:57:33] and I already modded a 3DS.

[00:57:35] I don't want to mod another one.

[00:57:36] But I will say, like, to me,

[00:57:39] before we get back into, like, Peter Molyneux and stuff,

[00:57:42] the moment to me when Nintendo really, like,

[00:57:44] hit that low point was the infamous E3 Wii Music demonstration.

[00:57:50] Well, that was in 08,

[00:57:52] so they were still kind of riding high.

[00:57:54] They were still riding,

[00:57:55] but that was the point where I was like,

[00:57:56] yeah, this is where they've jumped the shark.

[00:57:58] I think that was, like, their...

[00:58:01] how inflated their ego was at the time,

[00:58:03] that they thought they could get away with just showing that.

[00:58:05] My favorite part about that is just watching Miyamoto and Reggie up there flailing around,

[00:58:11] and I'm just like,

[00:58:12] they have no idea what they're doing.

[00:58:13] No, I think the worst part was the first time they unveiled the Wii U.

[00:58:19] That was bad.

[00:58:19] It was so bad they had to do it again the next year,

[00:58:23] and it wasn't much better.

[00:58:24] They didn't show the console once in the...

[00:58:27] Well, they did.

[00:58:28] It was this tiny little thing that looked like a Wii.

[00:58:30] I remember seeing those articles of, like,

[00:58:33] they would zoom in and, like, put a circle around and be like,

[00:58:36] that looks...

[00:58:37] that doesn't look like a Wii,

[00:58:38] so that might be, like, a new console.

[00:58:40] You know, like, that rollout was fucking atrocious.

[00:58:44] Yeah.

[00:58:44] I just hope the Switch 2 isn't that.

[00:58:46] I hope they've learned their lesson.

[00:58:48] I think they have, honestly.

[00:58:51] Well, hopefully we'll find out soon.

[00:58:54] But, um...

[00:58:55] But yeah, Project Milo, that didn't work out.

[00:58:57] Like, Lionhead was a really cool studio,

[00:58:59] but I think...

[00:59:00] I mean, I'm not sure why they necessarily, like,

[00:59:04] closed down.

[00:59:05] I think it's because Molyneux left.

[00:59:08] Okay, yeah, because they were working on...

[00:59:09] What was it? Fable Legends?

[00:59:11] Fable Legends and Fable The Journey

[00:59:13] was kind of, like, the thing that killed them.

[00:59:16] Yeah, The Journey was that Kinect Fable game.

[00:59:20] Yeah, it's...

[00:59:21] I've played it.

[00:59:22] I've not heard good things.

[00:59:24] I've played it.

[00:59:25] It is...

[00:59:26] It's something.

[00:59:28] It's not...

[00:59:29] So, when it comes to Kinect games,

[00:59:31] I like to go into, like, two categories.

[00:59:33] You have something that really works,

[00:59:34] like Kinect Sports,

[00:59:36] and then you have something that doesn't work,

[00:59:38] like Sonic Free Riders.

[00:59:40] Oh, yeah.

[00:59:40] It is much closer to Free Riders

[00:59:42] than it is Kinect Sports.

[00:59:45] Yeah, because isn't Fable The Journey,

[00:59:48] isn't it basically, like,

[00:59:50] that Dragon Quest Swords?

[00:59:52] Kind of.

[00:59:52] It's like a first-person RPG on rails?

[00:59:55] Kind of.

[00:59:55] And you kind of punch and do dumb shit.

[00:59:58] It's...

[00:59:58] Yeah, because that Dragon Quest game,

[01:00:00] that's probably the worst Dragon Quest game ever made.

[01:00:03] Yeah.

[01:00:03] It's up there with, like,

[01:00:04] the Dragon Ball Kinect game,

[01:00:06] like, Kinect Star Wars,

[01:00:08] and, like, Sonic Free Riders.

[01:00:10] It's just like,

[01:00:10] this is why the system...

[01:00:11] The peripheral failed.

[01:00:13] Yeah, yeah.

[01:00:14] Because there's some cool stuff on there,

[01:00:16] like we mentioned,

[01:00:17] like Happy Action Theater

[01:00:17] and the Sesame Street game are pretty cool.

[01:00:21] But it's...

[01:00:22] In a lot of ways,

[01:00:24] the Kinect is just a better eye toy.

[01:00:27] Yeah.

[01:00:28] And the eye toy wasn't particularly good.

[01:00:30] No, no.

[01:00:31] Like, I think the Kinect is better than the eye toy,

[01:00:34] but that's not saying anything.

[01:00:37] It functions better,

[01:00:38] but it still doesn't, like...

[01:00:39] I still...

[01:00:40] Like, the Sonic Free Riders menus

[01:00:41] are still the funniest fucking things

[01:00:43] I've ever seen in my life.

[01:00:44] Oh, God.

[01:00:44] Yeah.

[01:00:45] Like, that might be the worst Sonic game ever made

[01:00:47] because it just doesn't work.

[01:00:49] No, not at all.

[01:00:50] At least Sonic 03 functions.

[01:00:53] Or Sonic 06, sorry.

[01:00:55] Functions.

[01:00:56] I mean, it does function.

[01:00:57] It just is...

[01:00:58] Bad.

[01:00:59] It's broken.

[01:01:00] Yes.

[01:01:01] In every way.

[01:01:01] Yes, but the game doesn't crash on you.

[01:01:05] No.

[01:01:06] Well, the PS3 version can.

[01:01:08] Okay.

[01:01:09] That's because the PS3 version is somehow worse.

[01:01:11] Yeah.

[01:01:12] But it's a shame that Fable Legends game never happened

[01:01:15] because Fable Legends could have been, like,

[01:01:18] one of those big Xbox One exclusives

[01:01:21] that helped kind of push it along at the time, but...

[01:01:24] Hmm.

[01:01:24] I have a feeling that we're going to see a lot of, like,

[01:01:29] what Legends was supposed to be in the new Fable, hopefully.

[01:01:33] Yeah, it's very possible.

[01:01:35] But I know the new Fable, at least from what I know of it,

[01:01:38] is like a complete reboot of the series.

[01:01:41] True.

[01:01:42] True.

[01:01:42] Like, I think we're going to see some ideas from Legends, hopefully,

[01:01:47] because I know some of the original Fable people are somewhat involved.

[01:01:51] Yeah, they got some of them back involved.

[01:01:54] But it's mostly, like, Playground doing it.

[01:01:56] Playground and Eidos helping out.

[01:01:59] Yes.

[01:01:59] I think Playground's doing the environments

[01:02:01] and, like, some of the story stuff,

[01:02:03] and I believe Eidos is really working on the gameplay.

[01:02:06] Like, it's in the Forza tech engine.

[01:02:08] I know.

[01:02:09] I've seen the clips.

[01:02:10] It looks really good.

[01:02:11] Yeah, it looks really good.

[01:02:12] Yeah, I imagine, yeah, the Playgrounds,

[01:02:14] they're doing the environments,

[01:02:16] and I think they're writing the story as well,

[01:02:18] like, handling all the stuff around it.

[01:02:20] But I think, yeah, the gameplay is going to be Eidos handling that.

[01:02:23] Yeah, which is good,

[01:02:24] because Eidos knows how to make RPGs.

[01:02:26] Yeah.

[01:02:26] And I'm excited to play the new Fable.

[01:02:28] I imagine it'll be very good.

[01:02:30] I might finally get a fucking Series X just to play that.

[01:02:33] Yeah.

[01:02:33] So I look forward to that, hopefully, next year.

[01:02:37] But yeah, Bowen Molyneux left,

[01:02:39] he formed another...

[01:02:41] 22 cans.

[01:02:42] What a fucking horrible name.

[01:02:45] I mean, that's up there with, like, CyberConnect 22,

[01:02:50] just, like, these weird, like, just names.

[01:02:53] But at least CyberConnect 22 makes good games.

[01:02:55] Yeah, like, you can tell he's just trying to do, like,

[01:02:58] weird experimental shit, which credit to him for doing.

[01:03:01] But it's, like...

[01:03:02] Or it's, like...

[01:03:03] Like, iPhone and, like, PC games that, like,

[01:03:06] nobody knows about.

[01:03:07] Like, Curiosity, what's inside this cube?

[01:03:10] Or, like...

[01:03:11] Or Goddess, which is probably just a Populous clone.

[01:03:14] It's funny, because when I think of, like,

[01:03:16] a company like 22 cans,

[01:03:18] for some reason, it's like whenever a guy goes off on their own,

[01:03:22] they kind of make their own studio,

[01:03:24] and it always has some goofy name.

[01:03:26] Like, Double Fine was a good name.

[01:03:27] I'll give Double Fine that.

[01:03:29] Oh, yeah.

[01:03:29] Like, you look at, like,

[01:03:32] Kenji Inafune.

[01:03:34] Omcept.

[01:03:35] Like...

[01:03:36] Like...

[01:03:37] Or, uh...

[01:03:38] Yuji Naka.

[01:03:40] Like, Rope.

[01:03:41] Or whatever.

[01:03:42] Like, these weird, goopy names.

[01:03:44] I mean...

[01:03:44] Or fuck, what's the name of that studio?

[01:03:48] Ion Storm.

[01:03:50] Well, Ion Storm was metal as fuck.

[01:03:53] Um...

[01:03:54] That's a very of its name, kind of...

[01:03:56] Or of its era, kind of name, though.

[01:03:58] Or even, um...

[01:04:00] Uh...

[01:04:02] 3DO found.

[01:04:02] Trip Hawkins, after 3DO,

[01:04:04] he made digital chocolate.

[01:04:06] Like...

[01:04:08] The Haunted Chocolatier?

[01:04:10] I don't even think digital chocolate exists anymore.

[01:04:12] Probably not.

[01:04:14] No.

[01:04:14] I don't even think...

[01:04:15] I don't think their games even exist anymore,

[01:04:17] because they were all mobile shit.

[01:04:18] Mm-hmm.

[01:04:20] But, um...

[01:04:21] Yeah, so 22 cans.

[01:04:23] Peter Molyneux.

[01:04:25] Peter Molyneux's back in the news.

[01:04:28] Well, um...

[01:04:29] Because...

[01:04:30] They're working on a new game.

[01:04:33] Um...

[01:04:34] Is it called Legacy?

[01:04:35] Is that the name of the game?

[01:04:37] Uh...

[01:04:37] Let's see here.

[01:04:38] Games Developed?

[01:04:39] Yes, Legacy.

[01:04:41] Okay.

[01:04:42] Yeah, was that the one shown at Gamescom?

[01:04:44] No, it wasn't.

[01:04:45] Was it?

[01:04:47] I don't think it was.

[01:04:49] Peter Molyneux.

[01:04:50] Oh, Gamescom.

[01:04:52] What did he show off at Gamescom?

[01:04:54] Masters of Albion.

[01:04:55] That's right.

[01:04:56] That's the game.

[01:04:57] Oh, that's not even listed on their page.

[01:04:59] Yeah, because I think it got unveiled at the Game Awards.

[01:05:02] Or not the Game Awards.

[01:05:03] At Gamescom, like the opening live.

[01:05:06] And I remember seeing the trailer for it.

[01:05:07] I'm like, oh, that looks kind of neat.

[01:05:09] You know?

[01:05:10] Again, I think it's probably like a God game thing or whatever.

[01:05:14] Right?

[01:05:14] Yeah.

[01:05:15] Oh, yeah.

[01:05:15] Masters of Albion.

[01:05:16] I see it there.

[01:05:17] Yeah, yeah.

[01:05:18] And the unveiling of it on YouTube has 261 likes and 233 dislikes.

[01:05:27] Yeah.

[01:05:28] Yeah.

[01:05:28] The OG Todd Howard.

[01:05:30] Hey, now.

[01:05:31] Hey, now.

[01:05:31] Well, what's...

[01:05:33] Todd is such...

[01:05:34] Todd is not as bad as Peter Molyneux.

[01:05:37] I'd actually like to do an episode on, like, Todd at some point, because Todd is such a fascinating guy.

[01:05:42] He's not as bad as Peter Molyneux, though.

[01:05:45] Todd, I feel like he promises things and he does try to deliver them.

[01:05:49] He's just a little too gung-ho sometimes.

[01:05:52] Like, I don't get the sense he's trying to fleece people.

[01:05:55] I think it's just he gets really excited about stuff and wants to...

[01:05:59] Yeah.

[01:05:59] Like, it's like a kid-like...

[01:06:00] A child-like glee that he has, which I think can kind of get in the way.

[01:06:04] Whereas Molyneux is just, you know, trying to pull the wool over your eyes to some degree.

[01:06:08] Because even, like, say the original Fable.

[01:06:10] Like, yeah, people like it.

[01:06:11] I wouldn't say it's a bad game.

[01:06:13] But, like, he would say stuff that's like...

[01:06:15] The famous, like, you plant an acorn, you come back in a tree.

[01:06:19] Which, the tech wasn't there for that.

[01:06:21] Like, you could do that now.

[01:06:22] But the tech wasn't really there yet, so.

[01:06:24] See, Todd is like that goofy guy in school that just, like, really tries hard and he's really trying to be cool.

[01:06:30] Yeah, Todd Howard is a try-hard.

[01:06:34] Molyneux, on the other hand, there's a reason why most of his pictures look like this.

[01:06:39] Like...

[01:06:39] Yeah, very stern.

[01:06:41] Like, very stern and smug.

[01:06:43] He's that guy at work that, like, talks himself up a little too much.

[01:06:49] He's trying to make himself look cool.

[01:06:51] And it's like, eh, I don't know about that.

[01:06:53] See, I love, too, the fact that, like, when Molyneux came out of hiding for this event, like, they hyped him up as, like, Peter Molyneux.

[01:07:00] Everyone likes him, right?

[01:07:01] And I'm like, oh, you're out of touch.

[01:07:02] Everyone's like...

[01:07:03] I'm going to punch you, buddy.

[01:07:03] Because, like, the last, the most notable thing, I think, at that point was Legacy.

[01:07:09] Yeah.

[01:07:10] Which was the NFT game that, I think, long story short, he basically scammed people through the blockchain on that game.

[01:07:18] Like most NFT projects.

[01:07:19] Apparently, the game generated over 50 million in, like, crypto revenue.

[01:07:25] And then, like, the game...

[01:07:28] I think it did release properly, but, like, not...

[01:07:32] I don't know.

[01:07:33] It's kind of vague.

[01:07:35] According to this, it did release.

[01:07:38] But it's...

[01:07:40] Oof.

[01:07:40] It's not a good look.

[01:07:41] I mean, Peter Molyneux is a guy who would get really into the blockchain.

[01:07:45] Like, you can just kind of tell.

[01:07:46] Oh, yeah.

[01:07:47] And the fact he scammed a lot of people out of it.

[01:07:50] Because I'm sure there are some people who still view him in high regard.

[01:07:55] But...

[01:07:55] Yeah.

[01:07:56] See, my first introduction to, like, Peter Molyneux as a person before...

[01:08:01] Because I didn't really know when I was playing his games back in the day.

[01:08:03] The first time I really knew of him as, like, who he is was, like, Guru Larry's videos.

[01:08:08] Because, like, Guru Larry would just shit on him constantly.

[01:08:10] Yeah, yeah.

[01:08:11] To the point where he actually stopped doing it because he was like, yeah, this joke's overplayed now.

[01:08:16] Maybe he's having a field day because Peter Molyneux came back and he went, oh, shit.

[01:08:20] I can bring him back out.

[01:08:22] Yeah.

[01:08:23] But...

[01:08:24] Oh, man.

[01:08:25] It's...

[01:08:26] There's not much left to say other than, like, it's amazing how, like, this guy can be so polarizing yet still kind of...

[01:08:34] He's such a prominent figure and people will probably still buy his games at the same time.

[01:08:39] Yeah, yeah.

[01:08:40] Yeah.

[01:08:41] He's just one of those guys that I think, yeah, he'll always have his devoted fan base, but he's not, like, worshipped the same way some other people are.

[01:08:50] Like, as I mentioned before, like a Kojima or...

[01:08:54] Maybe to a lesser extent, like a Miyamoto or something, you know?

[01:08:57] But Miyamoto doesn't really make games anymore.

[01:08:59] No.

[01:09:01] No.

[01:09:01] To me, I think Molyneux is a good, like, studio head, like, kind of, like, management guy, like, advisor.

[01:09:08] But I don't think he's the best game, like, leader.

[01:09:12] No.

[01:09:13] No.

[01:09:13] No.

[01:09:13] These days, because I'm pretty sure the reason...

[01:09:15] The reasons why, like, Fable and stuff became the classics they were were the people working on them.

[01:09:20] Not so much Molyneux himself.

[01:09:22] Yeah, yeah.

[01:09:24] Because I think to round...

[01:09:25] Kind of, like, finally, like, round it back to our top...

[01:09:28] Like, the topic at hand.

[01:09:29] Like, I think his strongest period of time was his Bullfrog days.

[01:09:35] And...

[01:09:35] I would say so.

[01:09:37] Like, some people would probably put the lion head hair on a pedestal because of the Fable games.

[01:09:41] And I totally understand that.

[01:09:43] But there is some...

[01:09:44] But, yeah, that Bullfrog era was probably, like, the best era.

[01:09:47] Because, again, it's, like, when you're a creative force and you're young and hungry,

[01:09:51] you typically make stuff that's a lot stronger or stuff that people maybe hold in a higher regard.

[01:09:58] You know?

[01:10:00] Whereas, you know, once you get more successful and people start, like, praising you more and more,

[01:10:04] it can be harder to genuinely follow that up and not just kind of coast, you know?

[01:10:10] Yeah.

[01:10:12] Not 100%.

[01:10:15] And, yeah.

[01:10:16] Other than that, there's not much left to say about Bullfrog.

[01:10:19] I...

[01:10:20] Usually, when it comes to, like, Dead Studios, I kind of miss them.

[01:10:23] Bullfrog's one that it's, like...

[01:10:25] I enjoyed them at the time, but I don't really miss Bullfrog as much as...

[01:10:28] Like, some other studios.

[01:10:30] Yeah, yeah.

[01:10:32] Apparently, what was it?

[01:10:33] In, like, 2009, IGN did, like, a top game creators list.

[01:10:39] And Peter Molyneux was in the top 20.

[01:10:42] That's not surprising.

[01:10:44] Yeah, let's see.

[01:10:45] Who's right below him at number 19?

[01:10:49] It is Warren Spector.

[01:10:52] Another somewhat interesting fellow.

[01:10:55] Yeah, yeah.

[01:10:56] And then right above Peter Molyneux, weirdly enough, are Dan and Sam Hauser.

[01:11:01] They put them together, which makes sense.

[01:11:03] Yeah.

[01:11:04] So, I feel like they would be...

[01:11:06] If they did this list now, those two guys would probably be a bit higher on the list.

[01:11:11] I'm surprised, like, Peter Molyneux wasn't higher, to be honest, because some of these magazines, like, love him.

[01:11:16] I mean, and it was 2009.

[01:11:18] So, it was, like, coming off of Fable 2.

[01:11:20] Hmm.

[01:11:21] So, I don't know.

[01:11:23] I don't know.

[01:11:23] I'm kind of looking through the list.

[01:11:25] Like, they have Gabe Newell at 16.

[01:11:28] Wow.

[01:11:29] Which feels weirdly low, but I don't know if Gabe was necessarily responsible for the success of the Valve games.

[01:11:37] Who's number one?

[01:11:39] I'll find out.

[01:11:40] I can't just click one.

[01:11:43] Oh, it's one of those lists.

[01:11:45] Yeah, yeah.

[01:11:46] Oh, there's a Tokaru Fujiwara at 13.

[01:11:50] Oh, nice.

[01:11:52] That's a good pick.

[01:11:54] Let's see.

[01:11:55] Number 12 is David Crane at number 12.

[01:11:59] I feel like he should be top 10 just for the historical value.

[01:12:02] Jason.

[01:12:04] Oh, no, not David Crane.

[01:12:06] Crane, not Cage.

[01:12:08] I don't think David Cage would be number 12, all right?

[01:12:11] I love David Cage, but he ain't that high.

[01:12:13] No, David Crane hit fall.

[01:12:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:12:16] He's pulling his blob, yeah.

[01:12:17] That's my bad.

[01:12:18] I forgot.

[01:12:19] David Crane's cool.

[01:12:21] No, he is.

[01:12:21] He's a much...

[01:12:22] Yeah, he was very much a creative stalwart at his era.

[01:12:27] David Cage is like the funny developer that people really like, but he's not very that great.

[01:12:31] He's not that great.

[01:12:33] What, David Crane or Cage?

[01:12:35] David Cage.

[01:12:37] Cage, he's not amazing, but I fucking love his shit.

[01:12:41] Just because it's so insane, I kind of love it.

[01:12:44] It's something that if you're a David Cage fan, it's not because it's good.

[01:12:48] It's because it's just so fucking memorable.

[01:12:50] Exactly, exactly.

[01:12:51] See, Carmack is 10.

[01:12:53] It's a good 10.

[01:12:54] Yeah, that's understandable.

[01:12:57] Number 9, Yu Suzuki.

[01:13:00] For 2009, that makes a lot of sense.

[01:13:02] Yeah.

[01:13:03] Shenmue, baby.

[01:13:06] I got Shenmue now.

[01:13:07] I got the Dreamcast copy.

[01:13:09] The fucker works.

[01:13:10] Did you get all four discs?

[01:13:11] Oh, yeah.

[01:13:13] Okay.

[01:13:13] And that jewel case, for some reason, is hard to open and shut.

[01:13:16] Yeah, some of those jewel cases, they expand and they just get weird like that.

[01:13:20] Yeah, yeah.

[01:13:21] So, let's see.

[01:13:22] Number 8, Ralph Baer.

[01:13:24] Oh, the creator.

[01:13:27] That's surely for historical value because...

[01:13:29] That has to be.

[01:13:30] He made the Odyssey.

[01:13:31] He also made the Simon.

[01:13:33] I think he's more famous for the Simon in all honesty.

[01:13:35] Yep, yep.

[01:13:37] Let's see.

[01:13:37] Number 7, Shinji Mikami.

[01:13:39] I feel like he should be higher.

[01:13:41] 2009, I guess.

[01:13:43] Nowadays, maybe his stock's a bit higher.

[01:13:45] Yeah, Kojima is 6.

[01:13:47] I think that's perfect.

[01:13:48] Yeah.

[01:13:50] Number 5, Gunpei Yokoi.

[01:13:52] Hell yes.

[01:13:55] Even legacy-wise, he still should be pretty high up because the man was a fucking genius.

[01:14:00] Absolutely.

[01:14:01] Number 4, Sakaguchi.

[01:14:04] Yeah, that makes sense.

[01:14:05] Number 3, Will Wright.

[01:14:09] Yeah, nowadays I'd lower him a bit.

[01:14:12] 2009, though.

[01:14:13] He deserves to be on the list, but number 3, I don't know.

[01:14:17] 2009, I can understand that because he was fucking at his peak then.

[01:14:21] Number 2, Sid Meier.

[01:14:23] You know what?

[01:14:24] I can live with that.

[01:14:26] 2009, yeah.

[01:14:27] Yeah.

[01:14:28] Hey, Sid Meier, man.

[01:14:29] He's great.

[01:14:30] I don't know if he'd be number...

[01:14:31] And then, number 1, take a wild fucking guess.

[01:14:35] Let me guess.

[01:14:36] Did he create Mario, Zelda?

[01:14:38] Maybe.

[01:14:40] Yeah.

[01:14:41] Shakira Miyamoto.

[01:14:42] Yeah.

[01:14:43] I love Miyamoto, but...

[01:14:44] If they did the list now, he would still be number 1.

[01:14:47] And I get it.

[01:14:48] Probably.

[01:14:48] He deserves it.

[01:14:49] He deserves it.

[01:14:50] Was there Wada on there?

[01:14:53] He's probably lower.

[01:14:55] Again, it's like, if I could zip through this list faster, I would.

[01:15:00] See, I kind of can't.

[01:15:02] Yeah.

[01:15:02] I always feel like Wada doesn't get the credit he deserves sometimes.

[01:15:05] Like, for his stuff he did before he was president.

[01:15:08] Yeah.

[01:15:09] And out of curiosity, who's number 100?

[01:15:13] Ed Boone.

[01:15:15] I kind of feel bad for Ed.

[01:15:17] I think that's too low.

[01:15:20] Well, 2009, Mortal Kombat was kind of rough.

[01:15:23] I'm not going to lie.

[01:15:23] That was between Armageddon and the reboot.

[01:15:28] So, Mortal Kombat versus DC Universe.

[01:15:31] Yay.

[01:15:32] That game ain't that bad, though.

[01:15:34] The gameplay is fine, but it's so...

[01:15:35] The violence neutered...

[01:15:36] The neutered violence is so fucking just weird.

[01:15:39] It was a case of...

[01:15:42] It was during that weird, like, Midway-Warner-Brothers mid-period.

[01:15:46] And I think that's why they couldn't really go as far as they wanted to.

[01:15:51] At least that's why they say the game was a teen at the time.

[01:15:54] They wanted to make it up, but...

[01:15:56] Well, yeah, they did.

[01:15:57] But then DC got cold feet.

[01:15:58] Yeah.

[01:15:59] Which I get it, because they don't want...

[01:16:01] They don't want us ripping Batman's head off.

[01:16:03] And then, of course, nowadays you got Batman getting shot on a bench, so...

[01:16:07] Yeah.

[01:16:07] So, like, if they did MK versus DC Universe now, they can get away with it.

[01:16:11] Nobody would care.

[01:16:13] Probably.

[01:16:14] Weirdly enough, number 99 is Toru Iwatani, who's the creator of Pac-Man.

[01:16:22] Yeah.

[01:16:23] It's a shame he's so low, but I kind of get it, because he's not, like, a big name.

[01:16:28] Yeah, I mean...

[01:16:29] But he made, like, a game everybody fucking knows.

[01:16:32] Like, I haven't met a single human in my entire life who doesn't know who Pac-Man is.

[01:16:38] Yeah.

[01:16:39] So, that should count for something.

[01:16:44] But, yeah, I figure we've pretty much reached the end of the line here on this one.

[01:16:49] We did say next week we were going to cover Demolition Man.

[01:16:52] My copy is on the way, so hopefully it'll be here in time to do that.

[01:16:57] I'm actually kind of looking forward to that one.

[01:16:59] I've heard really interesting things.

[01:17:01] Oh, yes.

[01:17:02] I've played this game before, so I will have things to say about it.

[01:17:07] Is there a three seashells reference?

[01:17:10] I'm not going to say.

[01:17:12] Okay.

[01:17:12] I've got to wait and see on that.

[01:17:15] But anyways, guys, once again, thanks for joining us on the 3DO Experience.

[01:17:19] You can find the 3DO Experience on all the major podcasting platforms.

[01:17:22] And be sure to check us out over at the SuperPod Network.

[01:17:25] That's superpodnetwork.com.

[01:17:27] You can find all sorts of awesome podcasts, videos, blogs, many great shows, including

[01:17:33] SuperPod Saga, Super Ghost Radio, Retro Rehab, Novel Console, Remember 64, Bar Silence,

[01:17:41] Tommy's Video Game Ride Along, Find Time, Gaming Together, Friday Night Gamecast, The Elder Trolls,

[01:17:47] and then the three GNC shows.

[01:17:50] I believe that's everybody.

[01:17:54] Also, Thrac will be streaming Thursday this week.

[01:17:57] Yes, sir.

[01:17:59] Nice.

[01:17:59] And then hopefully tomorrow we are doing a SuperPod Network special where we'll be discussing

[01:18:05] the indie slash partner showcase direct thing that happens on Tuesday, which was as we're

[01:18:14] recording this.

[01:18:15] So we're going to get a couple of the guys together and we're going to discuss it, talk

[01:18:19] about what we liked and what we didn't like, and maybe where we think Nintendo is heading

[01:18:24] for the rest of the year.

[01:18:26] Yeah.

[01:18:27] That'll be fun to talk about.

[01:18:28] But in the meantime, guys, once again, thank you for joining us and we will see you all later.

[01:18:35] Bye bye.

[01:18:36] Bye bye.