This Is Not Woke | The Big Deal

[00:00:04] Stepping to Video Game Land. Welcome to Fine Time.

[00:00:29] Hello, party people. It's your boy Dre. And Kevin, let's do it this way this time. It's my boy Kevin. Oh, suck it, Steve. Kevin's number one. Steve is number two in the toilet. I don't need to, you know, suck it up to be in the toilet or whatever. It's fine. I'll get by. Man said the toilet or whatever.

[00:01:01] That thing you call the toilet. He doesn't know what to say. He's just flabbergasted for not being your boy this week. I think I'm going to get by because it's a fine time for everybody. I'm going to talk about one first because I did not talk about one last time because I was just, my life was a disaster. Now my life is not a disaster anymore. And I've been picking at this for a few months.

[00:01:26] And I think it's finally time for me to talk about Octopath Traveler Zero. All right. Well, Steve, I'm sure you remember. I what was it? Was it a partner direct? Was that like one of the few good things in a partner direct? Do you remember how this was unveiled? It was definitely a Nintendo direct, right?

[00:01:56] It was a partner showcase last year. There was this and Adventures of Elliot. We were like, oh, boy, look at all this HD 2D. Right. Yeah. I mean, and I was just like, yeah, let's let's do it. And it came out last December, I think, or maybe November. I forget. But I bought it. I bought it for Christmas for myself. It was a Christmas present to myself because my mom never knows what to get me. So she always just gets me like a gift card to you.

[00:02:26] It was online for like 100 bucks or whatever. So I'm like, yeah, sure. Octopath Zero Traveler Zero rather for me, because why not? And I got it then and I played it a bit that day on Christmas. They put it down and I played it a few weeks later and I put it down and I was just like, yeah, I don't really, you know, it was partially like I didn't have time to play it. Also, it just wasn't grabbing me. I had to admit, I think that's where I have to start.

[00:02:56] I don't think this game is that good. Straight up. It really pains me to say that. And I even wanted to just Steve, I had so much fun a few years ago doing the Octopath Traveler 2 postgame show with you. We made it in two parts because we had so much to say about that game because it was fucking great. It's better than the first one. And it's one of my favorite RPGs. If I'm talking the last 10 years, I'd say there's that.

[00:03:26] There's Dragon Quest 11. There's Shin Megami Tensei 5. And there's Octopath Traveler 2, I think for me, I'd put it up there. Octopath Traveler 0 simply does not hit. I can't recommend anyone play it outside of diehard fans for the first two. And look, this is just a me thing.

[00:03:49] I'm not like, I mean, I would never implore every Octopath person out there, including you, Steve, who hasn't played it yet, will feel this way. Because as we know, I've said it before and it bears repeating now, RPGs, especially Japanese RPGs, are the most subjective thing we have going in this industry. There are so many things that have to go right, from graphics to characters to battle system to dialogue to characters to talents to everything.

[00:04:19] There's so much that go into them. And yeah, not every element is going to be necessarily good, even in your favorite ones, right? But enough of those things have to hit for you personally to make it a good game. This one just doesn't do it for me. And so I guess I'll try my best to explain why. I'm not going to spoil a thing. I promise for anyone out there who is listening to this and has not played it yet. I promise I won't spoil anything.

[00:04:48] Okay, I'm going to talk in generalities. That's me, because I already have a copy of this game that I was spending to start playing. Yeah, definitely. Hey, definitely do. Don't let me deter you, no matter what I say today. I'm not. No, I'm not gonna. But at the same time, I don't have time. That's why it's almost May, and I still haven't started it yet. I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on this. So please tell me all about it when you get there. But here's how I feel.

[00:05:16] So the game starts with your hometown being incinerated by three villains. And so your hometown is razed to the ground. And then you take on the task of rebuilding the town with the scattered survivors. And that's what we saw in that initial trailer, Steve, of them placing houses and trees and shit because you're literally rebuild the town.

[00:05:37] Which means, though, instead of following the stories of eight party members that you just gather up and you travel together, you follow the story of not just rebuilding the town, but the three villains that did that to the town.

[00:06:23] And that's cool. That's what they are. So they're the chapter one bosses of Octopath Traveler, not the end game chapter bosses of Octopath Traveler. Yeah, but they try to make them into like a thing. And I just in my opinion, you can't make a whole game around motherfuckers like these. Like you just you just can't like you can't you can't have Dr.

[00:06:52] Claw be the villain of your JRPG, you know, like that just doesn't work for me. And this is I can never say this word exacerbated, exacerbated, exacerbated, exacerbated. This is masturbated by the fact that the dialogue here is just not that good. It's really basic and it's pretty boring. Dialogue has never been Octopath strong suit. Let's be real, Steve.

[00:07:22] Like that's it's we've never went to this for its scintillating, zippy like script. Right. Well, no. I mean, maybe for the voice acting of said script, but. Yeah. But we're not we're not there because like it's like, oh, man, this just jumps off the page. We're there because we like the characters. But what happens when you don't like the characters?

[00:07:48] That dialogue sticks out like the biggest sore thumb in the world. And and the plot itself is also really predictable. Like, Steve, you know me, if even my ass knows what's going to happen very much ahead of time, then I can't imagine how someone like you might receive this who just rain man's the show. Oh, yeah, I knew that was going to happen 20 hours ago. You always come on the air and tell me you feel stupid.

[00:08:18] You know, I'll find out. Yeah, you'll find out. Yeah, again, like this was OK in the first two games because the characters were so good that it didn't matter. But now it really matters. Also, the town building stuff. Pretty underutilized to me. It's really basic. I was expecting something a lot more involved, like Dark Cloud. I can't imagine either of you have played a Dark Cloud, but like. The meaning to.

[00:08:45] Like, yeah, if you if you remember, I actually talked about playing Dark Cloud on this show, maybe like what, three years ago or so. And I put it down just because it was like I realized how long the game was going to be. And I put in like a good like 15 hours. I was enjoying myself, but I was like, oh, man, this seems to be dragging out. And then I looked it up and I was like, this game is like 40 hours. I'm like, nah, I'm cutting it off here. I've had enough Dark Cloud.

[00:09:10] But regardless of that, the town building stuff in Dark Cloud was really fascinating, not just because it was like a very, you know, early PS2 launch game attempt at it, just because it was actually like genuinely good. This is just very like, OK, put the house here. OK, put another house there. There's very little. I'm not I'm not saying I expect this to be Animal Crossing or something. At the same time, it just is a little too basic to capture my imagination.

[00:09:39] So for it to be sort of like a just like just for decorative. Yeah, not just decorative, but just like. The quest lines that go along with the town to, oh, we need to have crops again. Oh, we need to have a farm again so we can have meat. Right. Like all that kind of stuff. It's just very like. That's kind of probably tied to its origins of it being a mobile game they made for consoles.

[00:10:09] Yes. And let's you know what? I don't know where else I'm going to mention this or rather it doesn't matter where I mentioned this. So let's talk about that right now. This is a lot of reused content from a mobile game called. What is it? Champions of the Continent. Yes. I've never played this game. Have you, Steve? No, I did already look like way too much going into it. And I play Fire Emblem Heroes. And it's like, how many gotchas am I going to play? Yeah, exactly. So like I was never interested in trying that.

[00:10:38] And here's the thing. You guys like we've talked about it a lot on the show. I am all for the asset reuse sequel. I'm the one who keeps calling for this shit because games take too goddamn long to make. And we have all this stuff. Just use it again and make a new game. I think all sequels should be Fallout New Vegas. You know what I mean? Like, I think that should be what we should be doing going forward. And Octopath Traveler Zero tries to do that, however.

[00:11:07] But this takes a little too far. Like, right down to the fact, Steve, that like a lot of the music I heard, at least 75%, is from like other Octopath games. And I think that's where they lose me. I think they should have at least done an original soundtrack. Because that goes so far in making it feel like a new game, even if all the other assets are the same. I don't think they should have reused like so much music.

[00:11:36] Because again, music does a lot for me. It's one of those things, again, of all the ingredients that go into the JRPG stew, music is very high for me. So if they at least had that, that would have kept me going a bit. Well, you're revisiting the continent, right? I guess it would make some sense to reuse that music. Yeah, reuse some. Absolutely. I'm not saying it should have been 100% original music. In fact, I would have never expected that.

[00:12:01] But like, it took a while before I heard a song that I didn't recognize, Steve. So it was just not enough for my taste. Maybe some people won't mind. I definitely did. Voice acting. You mentioned voice acting, Steve. That's also something I think falls kind of flat here. There's no more flair. You know, there's no weird accents or anything. You're not getting like a Hannity or, you know, or whoever this time.

[00:12:31] Like everyone is just American. Or if you're a villain, theatrical American. You know, I know there are people out there who made fun of some of the more fanciful ways that they spoke in the first two games. And those people are wrong and will always be wrong. But now look what we got. Everyone is just an American millennial now. Okay. Hope you guys are happy because you got what you wanted. Okay. No flavor. No fun.

[00:13:01] Hope you like it now. Jesus. Jesus. So the scenario in general and, you know, Octopath really relies on its story and its, you know, its characters. That's really the main draw plus the battle system, which I'll get to in a second. The scenario in general doesn't really give you time to give a damn about anyone, even if they were interesting.

[00:13:28] Because things just it's the Mario Galaxy movie of JRPGs. Things just we're moving, man. But no time to know. Don't think about that anymore. Just keep on. Yeah, like we are almost rushing through this plot. It feels like sometimes. And as a result, people are like presumed dead. And then they reappear with like almost no drama to it because it happens so fast.

[00:13:56] Characters get amnesia and then they are like magically cured within the same chapter. Pivotal characters are killed with like zero chutzpah gravitas, if you will. Like one of the villain conclusions, Steve, was so stupid. I'm still shaking my head over it. It was like downright. No, that doesn't make any sense. I can't. That's one thing. When you play this game, I cannot wait.

[00:14:24] When you complete that villain, that arc, I cannot wait to talk about that with you because that was just like no way. No fucking way. And not in a way that obviously I'm not going to spoil Octopath 2 here on the air, but you remember the one of Octopath 2 with the primrose was the first game, right? The lady for the lady from the second one. The dancer lady. The dancer lady. You remember the conclusion to that thing?

[00:14:53] Nothing like that where you're like, what the fuck? Where it's like, oh my God, what the hell just happened? And it's like amazing. Not like that kind of like, what the fuck? This is like the bad kind of like, wait a second. You know, like, wait, wait a second. And then it's over. That's the kind of conclusion it comes to. And it's just unsatisfying. You know, it's just really unsatisfying.

[00:15:17] There's something else, though, that does a real number on the story in general. The main character is a creative character, which means that they are a silent protagonist. Ooh, not a good decision at all. And of course, I am by no means a silent protagonist hater. I am a Dragon Quest fan for fuck's sake, obviously.

[00:15:45] But there are games where I do feel like a silent protagonist holds the game back. And Octopath Traveler Zero is definitely one of those games. Secretly, Chrono Trigger is also one of those games. But we can talk about that another time, I think. Hey, it's still an A. It's still an A+. Shut your whore mouth about Chrono Trigger. You're talking about Octopath Traveler Zero right now. It's still an A+.

[00:16:14] It just would have been an A++. That's all. If Chrono could speak. But, you know, hey, we can talk about that another time. But yeah, dude, like I said, the game begins with your town being razed to the ground. And then, like, people are dying. And then your character can't even speak to them. It's just an exclamation mark and, like, a thought bubble. That doesn't bring home the drama, man. Like, I'm sorry. That's not going to cut it. I don't know. Throwing that behind. Throwing that excuse behind.

[00:16:43] Oh, he's a creative character. Sounds stupid, too. Because you couldn't come up with voices one through four or voices five through eight to do something. Yeah. Or just have a male presenting voice and a female presenting voice. A masculine one and a feminine one. And just you get to pick one. So what? I don't know, man. Or it's like you said, one, two, three, four. Just pitch shift them. I don't care. It's Octopath Traveler Zero.

[00:17:12] Xenoblade X has a whole lot of voices for your creative character. And you might say they go overboard there. But we're not talking about Xenoblade Chronicles X. Please continue, Andre. I think the only thing I really want to talk about still is something I haven't touched on yet. The battle system, which I forget how you feel, Steve.

[00:17:35] I think Octopath Traveler and two are like maybe the best JRPG battle system. That's not the goat Grandia two for me. I mean, it is way, way, way up there. And of course, in the span of a show like this, I don't really have time to get into why. But just trust me. It's way up there.

[00:17:58] Sadly, I regret to inform you that Octopath Traveler Zero breaks the formula for no real good reason. Here's why. You can have eight characters now in battle. Four in the front row, four in the back row. Eight characters.

[00:18:20] They just added double the amount of characters to the battle system for no particular gain that I can see. Guys, just do this thought experiment with anything else. A Final Fantasy. Anything else you want to think of that already has four characters and a party. A Tales game. Doesn't matter what it is. And then add four more. Make it eight people at once. Wouldn't you just be like, but why? Like, I don't. That's how I feel playing this.

[00:18:50] I just don't understand why. I do. Okay. There is one mechanic that kind of makes me understand why. Anyway, spells or any other sort of attacks now that take MP, everything takes a lot of MP and you don't have a lot of MP. So your MP is short and they're expensive now. But every turn that goes by, the people in the back row gain some HP and MP.

[00:19:16] So I think the idea is you blow your MP, then you put that person in the back row and then they regain their MP, I guess. But like that only works on bosses because every regular encounter in this game is a fucking joke because you have eight characters now. So it's just like, I don't understand what they're doing.

[00:19:39] Not to harp on this point, but this probably makes sense when you're playing this on your phone and there's some sort of cool down period. And it's like, and it's either that or you take out your credit card and you buy some Octopath bucks or whatever to recharge everybody right this fucking second. That does make a lot of sense. Yeah, maybe again, I maybe I should have done a little more research into how that works on mobile. I don't even know if it plays this way. Maybe it does. I actually don't know.

[00:20:09] But like here's you know what the shitty thing is, Steve? There's no cool like spells or really cool attacks. Like a lot of the things that you can do to spend in pee on are like do three random dagger attacks to foes or like do two sword attacks to one foe. Like there's no I remember remember Hikari had like a million different cool like fucking sword moves. There's nothing like that.

[00:20:39] Like so because you know how it was before. It's like, OK, we're going to break the boss now. I'm going to donate the BP from this person to the Hikari and then and then I'm going to have so and so buff him. And then next round, while he's still stunned, I'm going to have him do 10 retuzan and fuck him up for like 2000, you know, HP or whatever or 20,000 even depending on how powerful you get. Right. You that doesn't happen anymore in Octopath Traveler Zero. Well, that's because it's Octopath Traveler Zero.

[00:21:08] They didn't learn all these fancy limits. Andre, I got nothing for you. Yeah. So it's like you don't even have the cool attack. So it's like, man, it's just such a bummer. I don't hate it. It's not a bad battle system now, but it feels like they just added a bunch of stuff on when they could have just left it alone and it still would have been leagues ahead of like every other game. Anyway, I'll shut up.

[00:21:34] I guess I've talked about this long enough, but like if you're new to the series, if Octopath Zero is like your first one. This game might make you feel like you're missing something like you're the one who's fucked up. Kevin, historically, you haven't liked these, right? I remember you played the first one. You didn't really care. Well, I played the first one for like over 50 hours and I didn't I didn't not care for it. I think I just like got burned out on it after a certain point. I wish that was like a 40 hour game.

[00:22:03] Actually, that was my question. I was is this a shorter game than the real two? Yes, it is. But it's there's so there's so little resistance that it just feels kind of kind of boring. Sometimes it doesn't have the bite. I think they took a little resistance. Yeah, I was I wasn't asking because this is this would be on my playlist. It just doesn't really sound like this deserves to be a like 70 hour thing.

[00:22:31] No, it's not that long. Thank God. But it's it's not. I again, I can maybe recommend this. Steve, I would still recommend you play this. I know I've just talked a lot of shit. Definitely don't take my word. I mean, like I said, this is sitting right over there. I have to play it at some point. Definitely do. Definitely do. It runs great on Switch, too. By the way, it runs as good as Octopath 2 did on PS5. Basically, it's 60 frames a second. It loads at a snap like it's great stuff.

[00:23:01] Like it's this is the way to play now. But man, I don't know. I guess I guess I'll just leave it there. Octopath Zero. I'm sorry. I tried to like you, but I just can't get into you. It's not you. It's me. It sounds like it's it's them. I don't know if it's you. OK, you know what? I changed my mind. Octopath Zero. It's not me. It's you.

[00:23:39] Guys, the way you took to me pouring myself out on the air last week, lots of positive reception there. Thanks a lot. Really, I truly mean it. And so I prayed on it a little bit. And I figured because you're all so nice about all that, including the Jesus stuff that this time I would talk about leisure suit.

[00:24:09] Larry to looking for love in several wrong places for real. This time you may start rooting. You treat this this segment as it's like a follow up to the Jesus game. It could be two things. I'm sure Jesus has played leisure suit. Larry to. I mean, I already started this game however long ago and I used as the scapegoat last time and I got other things I got to work on soon.

[00:24:39] Anyway, brief refresh. I bought this set of perverted adventure games real cheap from Gog. They are unaltered aside from having a scum emulator attached to each one so you can just run them fuckers on whatever you got. This tragically means that unlike the first game that got a beautiful glow up in the form of a VGA upgrade mode, the second game would never see this officially.

[00:25:05] I know that there's been a number of fan projects that are, you know, people have tried over the years and some look very nice, but you know, various stages of completion. Fans only have so much time. I'm playing what I got. So it's EGA time. Do leisure suit Larry fans have a name for themselves? Are they like. Oh, I don't know. Are they like Larry sexuals or something? I mean, there's got to be something right. I'd be calling ourselves the laughers, but.

[00:25:35] Yeah. Okay. I'll look into this later. All right. So, you know, EGA that's got its own charms, but it's a big step back to not just graphically, you know, come on. I'm a gamer approaching a certain age. I've seen much worse looking games, but also in the way it plays the simpler all point and click interfaces out. We're doing a whole text parser here.

[00:26:03] And for those not in the know, that means while I can control Larry by pointing and clicking, if I want him to actually do anything, I need to type it out. Hmm. Beginning to type anything thankfully pulls up the parser, but understanding how it speaks is the secondary challenge of all of these games that work that way. We'll get to that in a minute.

[00:26:27] So the last time we were here, you might recall a whole night's worth of shenanigans and lost wages where Larry Laffer chronic loser just wants to get some and fall short time after time until the end where he hits the proverbial jackpot. And Eve, of course, if this was meant to last, there wouldn't be however many more games. So and what could be as early as the next morning or maybe a few more days, you know, nebulous typhoon. We open to Larry mowing Eve's lawn.

[00:26:57] No, really. He's really mowing her lawn outside her house. And I guess California. She pulls up, claims to have no idea who he is and kicks him the fuck out. The starting your new adventure. And you're basically trying to figure out what to do with your fairly broke self stranded in a place you've never been. I love that. He just like he's just at her house. Just mowing. There's like, wait, did I fuck you? Bye. And then the game begins. That's so weird.

[00:27:29] This is closer to other Sierra fair and that they don't really give you any real hint on how to progress beyond don't die. Because, you know, the first one was like, hey, I need to get fucked. This one is like, oh, we are lost in California. What the fuck do I do beyond, you know, survive? And that's something that's tougher to do. And, you know, even more so because there's this weird Russian spy that looks like you skulking around town, too.

[00:27:59] It is weird. Okay. But I'll tell you what you're generally supposed to do. You're supposed to find a dollar left around in the garage, buy a lotto ticket, realize there's a radio delay in announcing the numbers. Use that delay to take advantage of a nearsighted lady at the radio station. Model your way through a dating show to win a cruise, something I already feel like was anachronistic by the time this game came out in 1989. You remember that shit, those shits, Andre? Yes, I do.

[00:28:28] What would you do to me if you got me into a room alone? Well, you know, that shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. That was hot back then, kids. Just trust us. Yes. Trust your uncles. Yeah. You muddle your way through one of them. And then after they hand you a million dollar bill, you got to try and get some essentials before your cruise ship departs that you won from the dating show.

[00:28:57] And that part is timed in the background. So you better hurry the fuck up. Okay. So you really got to get there. It's not some. That's one of those. We got a timer in the background. So eventually that ship is going to leave. So Larry's not trying to get laid at all at this point. Is it he's only just trying to survive. There's not like a secondary. That's a great thing that you just brought up, Kevin. I know it's because the game likes to tease the tease.

[00:29:27] A lot of the time, the game starts with a simpler form of copy protection in the last match, the lady to the phone number and your little black book that came with your game. Okay. God didn't provide it. Well, actually they do. I found out earlier today that on the God galaxy launcher, if you right click the icon, if you look on other executables, they do include the black book in that. But my God, thanks for telling me, you guys. But you can look up. They didn't mail you one.

[00:29:56] You had just to get a PDF. It was nice of them to actually include the PDF, but you can easily look that shit up online. Of course. But, you know, I'd say that's an adult to an adult, a gateway to an adult situation. You can also type up look clerk wherever you see, you know, if you're, you know, in a store somewhere. And if there are women, you're a woman, a woman. You get a portrait as rendered an EGA along with a message.

[00:30:24] There's a sexy blonde brunette Italian woman, but across the counter. But then again, you find all women sexy. You could try flirting or whatever, too, but they don't really respond like in the first game. They're all just trying to do their jobs, which I guess is kind of more realistic in a way, but also a stark departure from the first game.

[00:30:47] You're probably better off not jerking around too much anyway, because like I just said about this game is strict. You better be doing every cryptic little thing it thinks you should be doing or at least saving a new slot every time you make some notable progress. Hey, I'm good at that. Everyone likes to know I'm a chronic saver because you can and will find yourself in a bunch of unwinnable states that you otherwise need to restart from.

[00:31:16] There's that cruise I mentioned, and boy, oh boy, those KGB guys sure want the uncle on Glary is carrying around for some reason because you wander in there after you win the lotto. And this nice Hispanic lady clerk just hands it to you. And you're like, oh, wow, I'm so charming. I go, no, it's a whole spy conspiracy this time because the 80s and the iron curtains about to fall. That's exactly what I was actually about to ask you. Is there any women of color in here? You just answer my question.

[00:31:45] They treated Italian as a woman of color, too, because I'm like, OK, I mean, you know, really count. I know they don't. OK, let me let's get right to right to what I want to say. Is there a black girl in this game? So does Larry make eyes at a black woman? Do indigenous natives count? Sure. Why not? I think that's as close. If you're asking, I think that's as close as we're going to get.

[00:32:14] Because we will get there. I promise. Because it takes a long time for us. It takes a relatively long time for us to get there. We go on the cruise. We got to hide this on cloak from KGB guys. You know, there's a microfilm in there. Oh, man. The 80s. We got to evade their capture and get in the lifeboat.

[00:32:37] So I sure hope that along the way you bought sunscreen and a huge ass soda before the cruise. Those weren't goofy things you could do with your million dollars. Those were required things you were supposed to do beforehand. Got your hair cut aboard the ship so you can get a wig to protect yourself from the sun. Stole the complimentary dip from the ship's bar and the sewing kit from your date's mother. Because if you forgot any of those things, you're going to die on the lifeboat. That is so wild.

[00:33:07] You have to do all those fucking things. Miss one of them and that's it. Oh, my God. Is this fun? Is this like fun to play or is it just interesting? It's interesting. Again, we're going to land on an island and we need to cross dress to pass more KGB guards to get to the airport. And man, oh, man. Miss one detail along the way. And they haul your ass in.

[00:33:37] Fall to take off to get up before you get to the airport while crossing the mountains. And the one second, the text dialogue they give you. Well, airport security will arrest you for more obvious cross dressing that they saw in the KGB ages. Didn't see. Game over. Fail to disarm the bomb in the airport. You get the idea. They arrest you for cross dressing. Yes. You feel you fool the KGB people. They think you're hot.

[00:34:05] The people at the airport. Come on. Don't be cross dressing. We're hauling your ass in. This is not woke. Okay. Can I say that right now? I don't think anyone was ever accusing Leisure Suit Larry Games of being woke. Oh, my God. This is really. Okay. The first one came out, what, 87 or something like that? 87. This is 89.

[00:34:35] 89. Okay. Yeah, you're really right. We really are right on top of the iron curtain. Huh? Jesus. But I know what you all are really asking out there. Steve, are there any boobies for us at all? Yes. You get to meet one native lady on none to night Island while her dad, not Kevin Williams, agrees to let you marry her. If you get rid of Dr.

[00:34:59] Dr. Nanuki, a sleazebag that's part Dr. Strangelove and part Hugh Hefner by, you guessed it, more point and click shenanigans that involve you blowing up a volcano with hairspray. What? And I'm sure this is a hen that won't come to roost until the third game because Larry does marry this woman at the end of the game as promised. But, you know, I got a bunch more games in the pile, so I'm sure this marriage does not last. We'll just need to see.

[00:35:29] But, yeah, Kevin, this game was very mean spirited overall. Even the game over screens insisted on ordering the guide. They fucking knew what they did. Yeah. Yeah. All of them were like, hey, you want to order the guide or you want to keep muddling around, you jackass? That's the thing, right? Because when it comes to old games like this, point and clicks, even easier stuff like Shadowgate.

[00:35:54] You know, people who are younger are like, well, how was anybody supposed to figure this out? And it's like, you weren't. You were not supposed to figure this out. We didn't have any more clue than you did. But someone had to tell you some wizard had to tell you some old pervert who had to tell you or like you had to buy the guide. That's it. So, yeah, Kevin, unless you were feeling super ambitious, like I've been with this whole project here, this side project where I come on here and tell you about the pervert games.

[00:36:24] Watch someone else play it online. Yeah, I'll just listen to you. How much do you spend on the Internet? Like just Googling how to do the next thing when you're playing this? Like it's got to be a considerable amount of time. After the first time I missed everything on the boat, I just pulled up a guide and had it on the side. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say there's no reason. I was going to say I took their advice to heart and I bought a guide on GameFAQs.

[00:36:52] Yeah, you just I just don't think there's any point in trying to like suffer your way through this kind of stuff blind anymore back then or now, especially not now. Just have fun with the jokes and just know how to progress and know what you need to get and like enjoy the game as is like almost like you would a telltale game nowadays. Like I just think that's like the best thing to do. If you ask me. Yeah, people online generally. I'm just going to keep calling them the laughers until they everyone.

[00:37:21] Someone corrects me. I generally agree. This is the worst one. It gets better from here. So after this, after this. So we'll find out together. You played when we were on the previous creative endeavor. You played the 360 era one or no? No, I played what it was at the time. The newest one on modern platforms. Okay. And I'll and I'll replay it again for this event when we get there. I hope you keep playing these as well until like October.

[00:37:50] I never want to stop hearing about Leisure Suit Larry, to be honest. Well, per usual, we just we just perverted it up. I think we need a shower, guys. We got to once again that because Leisure Suit Larry man, that gets me hot. What can I say? Need to cool off. I think anybody listening to that should take a shower even. Yeah. Sorry if you were in the car. Yeah. Sorry about that.

[00:38:15] But if you were listening to this, definitely hop in the shower with us right now. It's time to hit the showers. We'll be right back on fine time.

[00:39:26] Kevin, is that my towel or yours? I can't remember. So we both have a green towel. I just can't. Towel? Yeah. Oh, that towel. I haven't seen that thing in weeks. Yeah. Maybe Steve's been using it. No. Minor minogrammed. Okay. Mr. Fancy pants over here. Shit. He doesn't want anybody else wiping their butts with his towels, I guess.

[00:39:54] It doesn't stop any of you jerk wipes. You don't do it. So anyway, you don't think I don't notice the brown stains. You got fucking monogrammed towels. You're asking for it, buddy. Yeah, dude. I mean, come on. Everyone's going to look at that and it's like, I dare you to wipe your balls on his towel. Come on. You do it this time. I did it last time. Detergent is the cleanser. But, you know, okay. Like, serious question.

[00:40:20] I never know why people get weird about like towel stuff. Maybe I'm just gross. I don't fucking care. You're getting out of the shower. You're clean. I don't give a shit. Like, if either of you were my roommate, I don't give a fuck if you used my towel to dry off once. I'm not saying I want to share a towel all the time. But if you like forgot yours or something, I mean, like, you're out of the shower. You're fresh and clean. I mean, like, who gives a shit? I don't know.

[00:40:48] I mean, are we talking like a towel that somebody else had already used and just hung up to dry? Or like a fresh towel out of the laundry? No. Like the one that I've maybe used yesterday, like once or something. There. I mean, so and I know not everybody does this, but we are like one towel use people and then they get washed. The thought of and I realize you're clean.

[00:41:14] But the idea that like you got out of there and rub that towel on your gooch because I'm using the towel to dry off everything. Right. And then like just knowing that is on my face, even if you have properly cleaned your gooch, like that same section of towel could be on or around my mouth. And I don't like that. You literally just got out of the shower, though. You were 100% clean. So it's not worrying about my cleanliness.

[00:41:39] I'm worried that if you had already used that towel and it had touched your genitals and then is on my face, even if your genitals were clean. I don't like it. Yeah. If you use the towel already, I'd insist on, you know, okay, we use this towel time to it's laundry time for this one. Right. I'm again, I'm not saying I want to share a towel all the time.

[00:42:04] I'm just saying if I had to do it once or twice, I don't think that's like the end of the world. Some people think it's like, oh, my God, someone uses towel. I can't use it. It's like, I don't know, man. But you wouldn't second guess if me and you live together and there was only one towel around and I'd already used it earlier that day. And like, even if you are confident that I properly wash my butthole, you want to like put any part of that towel on any part of your body.

[00:42:33] I don't necessarily want to. But if I if that was the only towel around and I really wanted to dry off. Yes. If I look, if I'm taking a shower before bed and I'm just putting on my sweats and a shirt, whatever, I don't really need to dry off. That's fine. I don't really care that much. But like if I'm going to work or something, I really want to be dry before I put on my work clothes. Yeah, sure. I'll use the towel. I'm not going to do it like without telling you or like, you know, oh, I use this towel. I'm just going to hang it back up or some shit like that.

[00:43:03] But like, you know, I'm not going to be weird about it. It's just like, I don't know. I don't think the line. Yeah. Like some people think it's like the grossest thing on planet Earth or something. I was just like, I think there's a lot of other things are way worse. I just don't think that's that big a deal. Yeah. And I don't think it's maybe that bad. And it's not you. I don't think I want to. Maybe this is why I don't want to like use a towel that I have already used that has touched my butthole either. I don't know. We like we use the towel.

[00:43:32] It goes in the dirty laundry. It gets cleaned. And then it's in the it's in the cupboard. And that's like where you get the towel when you shower. Okay. I mean, I get you. I some people are some people are like that about it. That's fine. I understand. Sorry. I'm not trying to be hoity toity. No, I mean, like I've never I've never heard of anyone doing that. But I think everyone if we search long enough, I think all of us have our little quirks about stuff that we want to like not reuse or touch again or whatever. So, you know, I get it. I get it.

[00:44:02] Even though that's not one of mine. Anyway, Kevin, you got to explain to the audience. You made us. I know you you insist you didn't make us, but I'm going to point the finger and blame you. You made us play this Bubsy 4D demo. I feel like I casually suggested it and everybody was earnestly in agreeance is how I remember it. But maybe me, maybe not. I don't know. I don't know. I was curious.

[00:44:32] You know what? When I first seen the footage of it, I was like, I honestly was like, this doesn't look that bad. This is this would be like worth trying for interest sake. And I think it was worth trying. It just wasn't very good. I didn't think I thought it was okay. It was all right. But no, I wouldn't call it good. I wouldn't call it bad either, though. It was fine-ish. It's not like is it's definitely not unplayable.

[00:45:02] It's not like. See, even when we when Steve talked about Balan Wonder World, Wonder World or Wonderland, I still Wonderland, right? Wonder World. I don't know. Wonder World. Okay. Okay. Okay. Steve talked about that. That was like that's like fun bad. And this isn't really fun bad. I just thought it was like quite weak. The humor is not good. It's like trying so hard to be self-aware, but it's not self-aware of how its self-awareness is going. I thought the controls sucked.

[00:45:32] And it's not like I don't even know how to explain how the controls sucked. Like you can definitely play it. It just feels like you're so there's this like you've got like your double jump and then you've got your pounce and then you've got your float. And it's just like you're just kind of like mish mashing all of these things to get around the levels. Yeah.

[00:45:54] It feels like you have a lot of mechanics of movement and stuff, but you don't have the level design to warrant all these things. This isn't like Penny's big breakaway where you can do all these things and string them together to like have these cool like zippy moments in this momentum and shit. But Bubsy 4D is just making you do stuff, which I guess is I mean, it doesn't make it necessarily bad. It just is also like I don't know.

[00:46:23] Also, the humor. Yeah, the humor is pretty repellent. I skipped like every cut scene after I heard them talk for like 15 seconds. I'm like, I can't do this. If I have to listen to them talk, I'm not going to actually play the game. So I had to skip a lot of it. And I was just like, please just put me at a level and let me play. Please, God, please stop talking. I don't. But who who wants that from a Bubsy game?

[00:46:48] Even if you're the type of guy or gal or other to like, oh, yeah, I'm going to play Bubsy ironically. Ha ha. Here is this thing that came back that nobody liked in the first place. Do you really want to hear them talk like this? Because I don't think you do. I don't think so either. I don't know who this is for. Yeah, that's right. Who is this for? Maybe it's for Steve because he's played a lot of these. You know what, though?

[00:47:14] I will disagree with you on one thing. I did think the graphics were good. I thought the cell shading was very good. I thought the characters look cool and stuff and well animated. I mean, obviously, it doesn't have the biggest budget or anything, but like it looks good to me. And I thought like the world, like the yarn and stuff or whatever looked appealing to me. I did. I don't. I don't. Yeah, I don't think it's ugly.

[00:47:39] And like I said, when I first seen like I just I first seen this just on fucking blue sky or something, a clip of it. And I was like, oh, you know, this looks interesting and it's not ugly, but it's like the levels are like so fucking repetitive. Like there's so much reuse of the assets and not in an interesting way. So it just like, you know, you in the demo, you play three levels in this world and like none of them have any distinction really to them.

[00:48:05] One's got a pinker sky, but it's just it's like it really feels like it lacks any personality to me. I kind of agree. I mean, kind of like once you've seen it, you've seen it. And then from there, it's just the gameplay to carry you through. But the gameplay isn't interesting enough to really like carry you through, which doesn't again doesn't make it bad. It just makes it pretty bland. I think one thing I thought was strange.

[00:48:30] It was like well over two minutes before I encountered a single enemy in that first level. Like nothing was trying to kill me. And I feel like in a 3D platformer, that's not good. Like there's no resistance. I think that's what also made it boring. It's like nothing at all even really attacked me. Like that's weird.

[00:48:52] I think there's just nothing at least even like I'm not saying 3D platformers should rely on a whole bunch of things coming after you because, you know, that doesn't really navigate one of the 3D space. But even Mario 64 is like, OK, let's put like three Goombas right here. You know, get something right. Something to pitter patter after you. This game doesn't really have that. You know what? You know what Bubsy 4D reminded me of? And I know you guys will know what I'm talking about. You know how there's like Sonic fan games that try to do.

[00:49:22] OK, what if Green Hill Zone were real? What if it were a real 3D space and Sonic could run around in this huge 3D? And then like they try to do that and it always sucks. It's always boring as fuck because like that's not how Sonic should play. Yeah. Like I understand that fulfills a fantasy of yours, but that sucks as a video game because look at all this like unoccupied space doing absolutely nothing. Right.

[00:49:50] So you just run around it for 30 seconds. It's like now what do I do? Nothing. OK, that's what Bubsy 4D reminded me of a little bit because it was very spacious and no game. You just kind of walk through it and then that's it. But yeah, that Sonic thing you just described is like, you know, 40% of what you see when you try playing dreams levels online. Basically, I forgot you played that shit.

[00:50:17] Yeah, that's kind of like it's like, no, man, that is not level design. That is just your personal fantasy. I don't think that's a video game. Sometimes it is, but in this case, it's not. Steve is not talking to us apparently today. Look, I know you snooty types with, oh, I don't play bad video games. Oh, I only used towels one time.

[00:50:42] Oh, but I like to watch baseball on my TV instead of the cell phone telephones. OK, you know the fuck what you guys? I take it from me. I'm the one that has to. Well, I don't have to. I bring it upon myself. I play their garbage around here. More relevantly, I have endured a lot of fucking Bubsy in this past year. We played Bubsy 3D on the on the Superpod game club last August. I think it was August and I played it the real way.

[00:51:13] None of this. Oh, we stuck in a real analog stick mode for people that want. No, no, no. I played that shit the real way last year. And oh, my God, that was bad. And you know what? This, this, this is oh fucking K so far. It's not winning anyone's game of the year award anywhere. Let's be real. And I'm not expecting it to.

[00:51:39] But based on what I played so far, it's going to take a lot from this point for me to come back on here or anywhere else and tell you that this game was bad. This wasn't Balan Wonderworld bad. It's not even Bubsy 3D bad. The camera isn't even as obnoxious as certain Sonic 3D game outings. It's fine. A lot of people will probably get this for 10 bucks down the line and they'll like it. Okay.

[00:52:07] And that's going to be what people remember Bubsy 4D for. Are you one of those people? Oh, no. I'm buying this game like day one and I'm doing it for it. I have a project coming. Okay. So we said we don't know who this game is for and we just, we uncovered the mystery. I've been playing the other games on the collection and oh my God, they're bad. This is fine. I, you know what though?

[00:52:34] I will say about the camera. I do like that. It's completely 100% manual. This thing doesn't snap to any attention to anything you're doing. You have to manipulate that thing the whole time. And I don't mind that, you know, like I'm sure like people who are maybe younger or used to, you know, platformers kind of wrestling that away from you sometimes like we'll might kind of balk, but I don't really care. That's fine. If you're going down those half pipes and why, why can Bubsy turn into a ball by the way?

[00:53:04] That makes no sense. I guess I shouldn't be questioning this now, but it's like I'm doing half pipes as a ball. Yeah. They said it's a new thing. They did. We're just going to go with it for 4d. I guess whatever, man, whatever's fine. Bubsy is not exactly known for its rich lore. You know? I just don't know why it keeps coming back, man. I don't, I don't know.

[00:53:30] I don't disagree with your like camera perspective, but I also went like, because I think the controls are stupid here. And so when it is just like jump, pounce, jump, float, turn into the ball, which the ball is like entirely fucking unruly. I don't want to be like manipulating the camera on top of that. Like this demo takes like 15 minutes. If you are watching the cut scenes, maybe 20.

[00:53:58] And my hands like felt uncomfortable after playing it. Oh, your hands felt uncomfortable. Well, that's nice because remember in Ballin Wonder World where everything was one fucking button here, we're blessed where everything is its own fucking button. Isn't that fucking great? It's the opposite problem. It's the exact opposite problem. What problem? This is great. Everything works. It's a video game. Yeah, there's a lot of buttons you got to press. I don't want to press that many buttons for goddamn Bubsy.

[00:54:27] Okay. Like I don't want to. Oh, a bunch of babies on the show. Oh, my easily amused, Steven. I'm not easily, easily amused. No, come on. Yeah. I'm using your towel extra next time. I know. Jesus Christ. Monogram. I'll use it on my most sensitive spots. Jesus. Fuck. All right.

[00:54:54] It's another big deal, which means we have to talk about Xbox again. Guys, they just won't stop. They literally will not stop. I don't know why this. This has been our show statement ever since. If you've been with us a long time and thank you if you have, you know, the second show we've ever done was when Microsoft bought Activision Blizzard King. That was our second big deal ever.

[00:55:23] I feel like ever since then, guys, we have just been like, what is this company doing? And we're going to have to do it again. So there has been a number of things that has happened over the last two weeks since we talked about them last. But here are two things I want to zero in on right now. I want to ask you guys about.

[00:55:43] So last time we mentioned that the new CEO, Asha Sharma, she said Game Pass has become too expensive for players. And we're the ones who were like, yeah, they're probably going to add like a low cost tier. They didn't do that. They lowered the price of Game Pass across the board. Game Pass Ultimate has been lowered from $29.99 to $22.99 per month.

[00:56:10] And PC Game Pass has been lowered from $16.49 to $13.99. So it's back under $15. Again, this flies directly in the face of what we predicted last week. So I know this is going to sound like hyperbole. I know. But I legitimately think this is worth exploring. Is this the biggest gesture of goodwill Microsoft has done for their audience since we started this show, Kevin?

[00:56:39] I actually think it is. Man, it just doesn't really feel in any way, shape, or form like goodwill to me. It feels like just a reflection of how fucking messy things are there. It feels like backtracking. And they're just scrambling to figure out what the fuck to do because they know it feels messy for consumers. And we're going to talk about the Call of Duty thing. That price decrease also feels transactional in a way.

[00:57:11] I'm not sure that it does yet because I think it's indicative of the bigger trend. But again, we'll get there. Steve, I just I'm floored. I'm really floored. Like, I really thought they were going to be like, OK, here's a $10 tier where you can play these 22 games that aren't Hi-Fi Rush or Halo Infinite or you know what I mean? And just, you know, maybe you can play Outer Worlds 2, I guess, or something. Right. Well, they did kind of do that.

[00:57:40] Did you see the other week? If you get Discord Nitro, you get a form of Game Pass where it's like, here's Stardew Valley and Grounded. And I'm like, guys, it's like another machine that plays Stardew Valley. I mean, for real. Right. Like, I'm not even I love that game. Who sits and plays Stardew Valley at their computer? I want to know. I don't think people do that. Right. That game is almost switch coded.

[00:58:09] I mean, that's where I first played it. It's definitely best on switch. Yeah, it's got to be right. But yeah, I don't know, man. This feels so. Yeah, you're right, Kevin. It is a mess. But I think they have, I think for one time, I think what the signals is that they actually do have a direction. I don't think this is going to change again in six months. I don't think they are setting a precedent now.

[00:58:37] Obviously, they're in the position where it's like, y'all got to show us. We're tired of hearing the talk. Show us. Don't talk about it. Do it. I think they're doing it. I think this is actually going to be something. I think this is going to be pretty firm. Yeah, I think like when you say it's showing a direction, you're right. There's no fucking way that six months from now they're going to be like, oh, we're going to bump the price of game pass up like three bucks.

[00:59:03] But I just I think that like direction and goodwill are a different thing. I think it's like hard for most people to probably perceive it as goodwill. I understand. I get that. How can you at this point considering everything right? But I just you know what I'm going to miss. Do you remember that one?

[00:59:26] I don't know if it was like the disaster interview where after Redfall or where Phil Spencer had to go on that show and be like, hey, guys, here's what's going on. It may have been after that. I think I think after that, maybe it's after they can't. No, it's not after they canceled. Perfect Dark. I think it was before that point is there was one show where it's Phil Spencer and Sarah Bond was also there just giving away stuff. Do you guys remember this? She was like Phil Spencer would be talking and then Sarah Bond would come on. Oh, that's why today launching on Xbox.

[00:59:56] Everyone will have this on game pass or something. She kept like giving us stuff. I don't remember that part. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't remember that part. I just remember the Redfall stuff. Yeah, it was after that. She was there to just give us stuff. But I always that will be the lasting memory of her for some reason. Just like Phil Spencer doing the PR stuff, smoothing it over. And then she's like, hey, guys, how about this right now on game pass? Like it was just like so transparently like we know exactly what you guys are doing.

[01:00:26] Okay. As we alluded to, along with this announcement that game pass prices are dropping in the same press release, they said Call of Duty games will no longer be available day one in game pass. According to Bloomberg, Microsoft gave up more than $300 million in sales by sticking to their guns with game pass by putting Black Ops 7 on there.

[01:00:55] And it seems like they're not going to do that anymore for very obvious reasons. Guys, we've been talking about game pass and its profitability and how it doesn't make sense to us since the day the show started. Is this the way they finally fight back? Is this the way they finally put the genie back in the bottle, Steve? It starts with Call of Duty. Do you see other stuff in the future skipping day one on game pass?

[01:01:22] I think it's going to be an interesting year or so to look at here. It's like Kevin said before, we kind of got to actually keep it at this price for a bit. We can't. Firstly, they can't start increasing it again for starters. On its face, I think this was a good move, actually, because we saw what happened to Call of Duty. We should have been going to shoot the bed and even go on Ubisoft emergency sale after that. Like, okay, I get why this was the exchange.

[01:01:51] But I think if they quickly unpromise anything else already slated for day one game pass this whole time, like Fable, they lose a lot of much needed goodwill. And, you know, a time where we keep saying they don't have a lot of that right now. So maybe it's like how you keep saying sort of where certain future releases don't arrive on the service day and day with Project Helix.

[01:02:18] There's another elephant in the room that we're not talking about right this second, but, you know, we'll see. The answer is maybe. Kevin, I think part of. I don't think Call of Duty alone can like taking that away can drop the price of game pass ultimate this dramatically, I guess. I just don't feel like that can only be it.

[01:02:44] I know Call of Duty is a huge deal, but I don't see a world. Okay, I'll just say it straight up. I don't see like Elder Scrolls six being day one on game pass. I don't. Oh, yeah. I don't see it. I mean, I don't. I feel like pulling Call of Duty in the first place was a bad look. And as soon as they do have something else like that or Fable or whatever, and it's not going to be a day one game pass.

[01:03:13] Like it really like kills the idea of what they have sold game pass on all of these years. So if there is value in game pass, it kind of needs to be like play all of the big releases that we put out and you pay game pass and you don't pay anything else. And I feel like once it gets into a like wait and see if a big thing will be day one or not.

[01:03:33] Like I feel like there are too many eggs in the game pass basket at this point to like make it that because then like I really do think if all of a sudden if Elder Scrolls six is coming out and they're like, we're not doing this day one on game pass. Like they have they have like a fucking huge disaster on their hands that they have like no idea what that's going to look like. This is actually and I'm just kind of thinking about this now relevant for me.

[01:04:01] And Steve has made fun of me for this over the years. I've had game pass for the last like six years because for years you could get you could like pay for three years of Xbox Live Gold at like the old Xbox Live Gold price, which was like insanely cheaper. And then as soon as you got game pass in any way, shape or form, all of that, all of that like upfront subscription you had bought, you would like just have converted to game pass. And it's not like prorated.

[01:04:30] It's not like you paid for three years of gold. So you get one year of game pass. You get three years of game pass. So the first time that I got game pass, I paid for three years of gold and then I got the like one or like the like, you know, one month of game pass for $1 and then I had three years game pass. And then I didn't have that deal anymore. So the second time I did this, I literally bought three years of gold and then I went and I bought a box of pizza pops that had a fucking coupon inside of the box with a code for 14 days of game pass.

[01:04:59] And then I had three more years of game pass and that game pass, my three years is up like middle of May coming up here. And, and like thinking about keeping game pass is not even like remotely on my radar. Ironically, it runs out like four days after Forza Horizon 6 comes out, which I am very intent on playing. So I'm just going to buy Forza Horizon 6 and, and play it, you know? So like that's kind of a mark towards them.

[01:05:27] But on the flip side, like do, do I have like buying Project Helix is even like a fucking tiny little thought in my head at this point? No. Now we talked last show about, you know, Andre is saying that they could make Elder Scrolls 6, you know, day one exclusive on Microsoft hardware.

[01:05:45] Maybe that changes things, but I think there's like so many pieces that fall into this that, that there's too many variables to like even try and figure out what makes sense. Cause they've got such a fucking mess of their own making on their hands. I think it's, it's tough to navigate this Steve.

[01:06:04] When you have a console that nobody cares about, like if Xbox was at least kind of hot right now, like obviously like PlayStation is weathering the storm with the Jim Ryan stuff and their shitty first party output this generation. Because everyone's buying a PS5. The hardware is very good. And it's like a brand that means like you can tank some of that, right? Nintendo couldn't with Wii U because that was not an audience that was going to stick around. That was a casual, that was like grandmas and stuff, right? You can't, you can't do that.

[01:06:34] You can do that this generation with PS5. When you're, when you're, when you're basically what I'm saying is when you are coming from a position of weakness and not a position of strength, it's, it's very hard to pull that off. I think. Honestly, I'm just looking ahead because I feel like everyone's kind of lodged in where they are right now. I mean, we, those systems came out in 2020. I mean, I don't think anyone else is buying a system right now.

[01:07:00] I think everyone's got to be looking towards what's next project Helix, PlayStation six and what, but all that really means. Kevin, I only really made fun of you because they, where you got them from the toast, you know, pizza pockets for whatever. I mean, let's be real, but I mean, it's like you just said, it's only really bad for Xbox because they are where they are. They already promised fable day one on Xbox. If they get, if they slide back on that now, that's bad.

[01:07:28] But everyone's going to jump on that forever. They haven't made such a promise for Elder Scrolls six because that game hasn't existed outside of some Brown mountains, however many years ago. So yeah, that is not a real game yet. If you ask me. So when that game finally does exist, they could say, and we're not putting it on game pass for at least six months and have some credibility left.

[01:07:53] They haven't promised that in the sense of saying, you know, all of the Bethesda games are going to be day one on game pass. I feel like they've promised that in the way that they have marketed game pass, you know, and, and they're like these giant fucking purchases they've made over the last number of years. They, they, it has been an implied promise. It has. I think the implication is that like for now and future, even if they didn't say so explicitly, right.

[01:08:23] But again, that can call a duty is the biggest thing they can pull, right? And they pulled it and they made a point of pulling it. They could have just waited until it came out and it's just not on game pass and be like, oh yeah, we're not doing that. Right? No, they said so ahead of time. I think that's for a reason. I think there's going to be a lot of looking at what all this does for a bit and then seeing what happens from there. Yeah.

[01:08:52] I would love to, I mean, obviously we'll never know the actual numbers. I would love to know besides what they lost on call of duty. I would just love to know how much the subscriber base for game pass dropped when they raised the price. It must've been significant, right? Cause I feel like this isn't just about call of duty. I feel like they actually lost a lot of subscribers because of that price hike, especially cause you can't do that when you're not again, you, when you're not dealing from a position of strength, you can't do shit like that.

[01:09:22] It's going to catch up to you. People aren't just going to pay that for a brand and for a library. That doesn't mean a whole lot right now. Again, again, we'll never know the real numbers on that, but I would love, I would love to know what they are. All right, guys, let's talk about Xbox more. We've got a little peek behind the curtain.

[01:09:51] We've been sitting on this story for a few weeks. Yeah. For a while. Yeah. Oops. We, but other stuff happened, but yeah, we've been sitting on this one. Get to, yeah. Let's, let's read this one. I'll phrase it this way. When I first wrote this out, I've got Microsoft recently teased Project Helix, which is not as recent anymore. And, you know, talked about it playing Xbox console and PC games.

[01:10:16] And a further quote from Xbox rep, Jason Ronald says, as part of our 25th anniversary later this year, the game preservation team will release some iconic games from the past that are now going to be able to be played in entirely new ways. And then Nate the hate, who we've talked about on this show before built on this in a reset era forum post and said, this has been their goal for over a year.

[01:10:39] I think I made a comment about it before, but Microsoft back combat team has wanted to bring and make your OG Xbox and Xbox 360 digital library playable on PC, which doesn't seem like a stretch to me. Like given the context of, of that, that previous quote, you know, and it makes me wonder too, is this, is this going to be entirely reliant on game pass?

[01:11:05] Um, and I don't know, you know, it's hard the way that the, this quote was articulated, uh, to know, but I'm not really sure even what your quote unquote Xbox digital library is supposed to reference outside of a game pass sub as far as like original Xbox games specifically. I think if they did this, this would be the most exciting thing.

[01:11:31] Microsoft has done for me in, I don't know how long since the three 60 era, I think they know because like with all this back compat stuff that they'd been so good at over time. I think they know this is where their real strength lies. I think they know people love playing their Xbox games and they're so enhanced even with like frame rates and shit enhanced. On Xbox series X and stuff. And I think that is so fucking cool. And I always thought it sucks. You can't do that on PC.

[01:12:00] I saw a post from Mario 64 yesterday. Hey, the lost planet trilogy is on sale on Xbox or two 99 each. I can't buy them because I don't have an Xbox because that doesn't work on PC. Right. Cause they're like some sort of Xbox 360 back compat thing. If that came to PC. Oh my fucking God. Like I would be over the moon. That would legitimately excite the hell out of me. I would love that guys. Also.

[01:12:30] As Kevin to your question of like how that's going to work. I think we could look to like. The like PlayStation or Iowa cheese. What is it? Like essentials or something like the, the, the, the classics, right? The PS one and PS two classics. So like when those first went up, yes, I had like PlayStation Royale with cheese. However, if you don't, you can just buy them for 10 bucks or something.

[01:12:53] I remember at some, at some point I let them lapse and like, I still had access to the games that I bought. Like, cause remember they had like PS one classics on like PS three and Vita and shit. I, cause I bought like jumping flash and I bought like a couple other things. I can just play those on PS five. They grandfathered me into those versions. So I think you can do that on PC. If I log in with my Xbox account on, on here on PC. And like I said, the three 60 is the only Xbox I ever had.

[01:13:22] So I have many digital games on there. Tons of XBLA games, tons of shit on there. And like retail games that I bought digitally. Like, I don't know. I can't remember at this point. Doesn't matter. But like, I'm sure they can grandfather those things forward. Even if I don't have game pass, I can't imagine that's going to be tied to game pass. I think that would be a disaster. Kevin. If you're someone like friend of the show, Thrak, who's been Xbox this whole time, you're, I think you'll be in a good place for whatever this initiative is.

[01:13:53] Yeah. It's interesting too, especially like, you know, talking about three 60, I don't, I do not know anybody. I don't think, you know, at the time that was like primarily buying any of those games digitally. Right. And I'm sure there's definitely been some of that since then you can go and buy the, but I, I don't, you know, this almost goes back. We were just talking about like that red fall interview. You know, that, that, that interview was when Phil Spencer was like, well, we lost the last

[01:14:21] generation or, you know, the last generation was the worst one to lose because that's when everybody built up their digital library. And there definitely is a thing, I think like in the three 60 era, like there's, I don't think there's a lot of people that have like current digital ownership of those games other than Andre. Um, you know, because by the time that got to be a thing, that's more when like, like Xbox was pushing subscription forward stuff more. So I don't know.

[01:14:51] It's just, but, but I also, you know, would they, would they talk about this digital library as being its own subscription classic service? And that just, that just like muddies the water even worse. And furthermore, you know, when we last talked about Xbox two, Andre, you were talking about like the need for them to isolate the console from PC even. And then, you know, if we're talking about PC emulation and tying it to your library, that gets muddy too.

[01:15:19] There's, there's again, there's so many fucking variables to try and like figure out, you know, how, how do you like make a unified like path forward that consumers can easily understand and get on board with? Yeah, that's, that's what, that's why I also wish they would do besides everything else I said about it is make console, make games. If you try to do all this other stuff, it gets so fucking, you know, one of the smartest

[01:15:48] things, obviously after the Wii U marketing disaster is not the only reason why it failed, but you know, the marketing sucked on that thing. People didn't even realize it's an accessory for Wii, the whole bit, we all know. I remember when they first, Reggie's first interview about Switch before it came out, what, what is Nintendo Switch? Which I forget what this was on. He said, Nintendo Switch is a home console you can take with you. He didn't say it's a, it's a hybrid console.

[01:16:18] He didn't even use that word. He didn't say it's a portable, but you played on the TV. You can play. No, no, no, no. It is a home console that you can also take with you. That's it. So, and I don't think Mike, I don't know how they say, what did they say about Project Helix, right? It is an Xbox PC. Like they have to find a way to like make that very communicable to people. It's not even communicable to us. And we like pay attention to this shit. Right.

[01:16:46] So I don't know what chance, you know, my mom has of like understanding what's going on here. Right. And that's who you have to worry about. Not us. All right, guys, I have a question for relief. Just one quick one. I don't know how long we can talk about this because the answer just might be no. And then we'll be like, okay, good night, everybody. But I want to ask you guys both this. We know what's going on right now with RAM prices, parts prices in general, graphics cards,

[01:17:17] all technology prices are through the roof in a way that's insane and basically not affordable for any regular person right now. So here's what I want to ask. Let's say everyone sticks to their guns and PS6 comes out next year. Project Helix comes out next year. You know what? Forget about Project Helix for now. Let's just make this about PlayStation. PlayStation. PS6 comes out.

[01:17:47] It's $1,000. It's a G. Is there anything? I know I always make jokes. The console better blow me for that price. Whatever. Steve, is there anything they can do? Is there anything they can offer you? Is there anything they can say to you? Is there any games they can show you that will make you drop a G on a console? No. Nothing that PlayStation offers me, no.

[01:18:20] I can't even fathom spending $1,000 on a console. Even in Nintendo land, I'd have to wait. Well, if you wait, it'll be $1,200 in 2013. That's the other fucking problem right now. I know we're the Nintendo Forward podcast, but if Kevin was going to offer me some money right fucking now, that Switch 2 is going up in price in June. Oh, yeah. It is. I'm telling you right fucking now.

[01:18:46] They're keeping it where it is until June so they can say, guys, we kept it there for a year. We tried. Oh, well. Kevin, I think. Well, actually, I want to hear what you think first. Is there anything they can do? A game? A technology? A graphics that blow you away? Is there a controller innovation? Is there anything they can do at all to make you drop a G on a PlayStation 6? Man, I know.

[01:19:15] And I've got a very similar answer to Steve, honestly. I think, you know what? Regardless of what it is, just knowing. If it was Nintendo, I can see me, regardless of what the technology is and what it should cost. I think that would be where I'm like, you know, I know I need to get a Switch 2 at some point. This is just like a thing I need to have in my life during this period of time.

[01:19:44] And even if that's like a wildly unreasonable cost, I would do that for Nintendo. I cannot think for PlayStation 6 of a scenario that would be like, I just can't fucking say no to this. I think I would have a similar answer at $800 American dollars. You know, we're still well over a thousand Canadian. But what's really frustrating about that, too. And I remember you guys giving me shit for this years ago.

[01:20:08] Like when current gen stuff was coming out, you know, PS5 and Xbox, you know, and like I've said this for a long time, like it's hard for me to like get that excited, you know, about these new consoles because it's such like I always feel like it's like an incremental upgrade. And I did eat my words a little bit and said, yeah, that's SSDs. Now, you know, really, that was the upgrade. But I think at this point, I'm like really ready for PlayStation 6.

[01:20:35] I'm really ready to like feel like I've got something like, you know, that's like it feels like it's time. I want like something that's like fucking super powerful and that looks like really slick and and that, you know, like makes 120 frames a second, like a standard thing and not like, hey, maybe you can have this once in a while if it's like a fucking, you know, jimmied enough experience or whatever, you know, so I am ready for that.

[01:21:03] But yeah, like that's just like two cost prohibitive to justify at $800. I mean, it's tough for me because like would I drop $1,000 on a console or PS6 in particular? Yes, they would. They would have to get me, though. They would have to. I don't know what that would be.

[01:21:32] See, that's the tough part. If you ask me, well, what could they do? I don't know. So I don't even know how to answer my own question. I'm willing to spend the money and don't get me wrong. I can't just drop $1,000 on fucking anything anytime I want. I don't have it like that. So I'd have to really plan. However, I would be willing to. My other problem is I'm looking at my year of PlayStation 5 so far as dictated by my butler. That's why I affectionately call the app.

[01:22:01] And so far it's been, well, Steve, so far you played a bit more Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth and you played a few demos and you played through Bubsy the Woolies Revenge recently. That's pretty neat, huh? And not much else. I mean, I've been using. I mean, I played. What have I done this year? Romeo was a dead man. I have. No, no, no. That's what came out. Yeah. I have sorrows waiting to unlock. Yeah. Marvel rivals a lot.

[01:22:30] I have sorrows waiting to unlock on my PS5 as of this recording, like maybe like a few hours from now, which I can't do because I'm going to be editing this stupid ass show. So I can't be playing that. It's not that they don't have games. It's that I don't have time and I'm definitely not going to spend $1,000. I don't have or even plan out to have to maybe play a handful of games that I can't do. So I'm just saying, let me like, go ahead, flip this.

[01:22:59] Let me flip this question around to you, Andre, because you're the only one who's like willing to bite in turn. If they come out and announce PS6 tomorrow and they say like, we're not, you know, it's going to have great games. You don't know what they are yet. And it's going to be $1,000 or you can trade your Switch 2 for it and you can't get another Switch 2. For a PS6? No, I don't think I can do that.

[01:23:27] I would not give up Switch 2 for PS6. There's no way I can do that. Even though, I mean, right now we don't know a whole lot of what's going on this year with Switch 2 past like Yoshi or whatever, which obviously will, you know, the next direct will fix that. But like, no, I can't do that. It's not, I'm not that gung ho about it. I don't trust Sony like that to give up Nintendo. Nah. No, I can't do it. You're becoming one of us more and more every fucking day. I can feel it.

[01:23:56] I can't do that. That just seems to, again, I don't think there's anything they could offer me on that system to make me give that up. That's not, that's not happening. But I don't know. Well, okay.

[01:24:12] I guess the reason why I'm willing to do it is because like if I were an adult in the 90s, I might have been that dumb shit to drop like 700, 800 on like a Neo Geo or a 3DO or something just because, ooh, it's expensive. And here's the hot new technology, right? Like I might have been that person. I'm not saying I definitely would have. But we always think like who was the dumbasses back then to actually buy a few of these that may have been me because I'm kind of, I'm that kind of enthusiast.

[01:24:42] I just did not have the income back then because I was a child. So, you know, I'm willing to put money into video games like that. If it's the most top shelf shit, coolest shit you've seen technology wise, I can do it. But I don't know if Sony can do that.

[01:25:04] I maybe would have had a different answer like three years ago because I just feel like my confidence in PlayStation overall has like steadily trended downwards over the last three years. Everyone's has and with good reason. I mean, look what's happened over the last few years. Not a whole lot. What can we say, right? Are we getting a Horizon 3 anytime soon? I don't know. Right? Like who fucking knows what's going on there. Horizon online, buddy. Oh, can't wait.

[01:25:34] Wow. Did you see they sued the shit out of that company making the Horizon ripoff and it like completely disappeared from like everything? It's like, how are they getting away with this? Oh, they're not getting away with it at all. That shit is gone. Speaking of gone, because I don't know how to make this a big question. The Ginga Dragon situation. Absolutely fucking criminal.

[01:26:01] If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, Ginga Dragon, the game being made by Nagoshi Studios, a guy who left. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The Yakuza team to go do that. The guy from Sega to begin with. He was making a game. The funding got pulled from NetEase. I don't even know who from. Doesn't matter. That shit is not coming out. It had a big old showing at what? The Game Awards or something. One old trailer. Yeah. Featuring real life actor. I can't think of his name right now.

[01:26:31] Dude, just gone off the face of the planet. They deleted like the YouTube trailers and shit from the I mean, nothing's ever really gone from the Internet, but just like official references to it are gone. Unbelievable. What a crime, man. What just what is happening in this industry? Anyway, I'm sorry to leave on that bummer note, but that's that's all we got today. All right. Thanks. Almost said thanks for joining me, you guys, as if like you're my fucking guests or something. Jesus Christ.

[01:27:00] Thanks for joining me, Kevin, on fine time. And thank you, Steve, for joining me today on fine time. Yeah, thanks. I managed to squeeze this in right before going into the much better. No, I'm just kidding. OK. Going to record virtual boy. Go. Right. Yeah. More like virtual boy stuff. Ooh. Thanks for joining me, guys. My guests on fine time today. I hope you can join me next in a couple of weeks for another big deal.

[01:27:29] Check the description of this podcast to find our links on social media. And we'll see you next time. Bye. You've been listening to fine.