Vampire Crawlers

[00:00:09] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of The Pre-Order Bonus Podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Cameron Warren and I'm joined, as always, by the pixel professor, Jacob Price. It's May 21st, 2026 and we're back to talk about video games. Jake, I got a bone to pick with you, sir.

[00:00:29] I've been waiting for it. I don't have many bones to pick with my co-host. I know we get along pretty well. Almost never. We probably do better if we were meaner, but we kind of don't typically have it in us. Do we have... We need some sort of ongoing tension over some subject that we just keep bringing up that causes a rift.

[00:00:56] No, but maybe it's this one. So, War Horse, the creator of Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, which was my number one game of last year, highly critically acclaimed, robbed even for the game of the year by some low stakes indie game that shall not be named.

[00:01:21] Now, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 studio is working officially on an open world Lord of the Rings game. And Jake, you're not really excited about this. That's right. I'm not. Man, dude, I don't think I could be more excited about a studio making a game. Jake, tell me why. I think I actually know why. So, I don't think it's actually that controversial. Let's say I think I know why.

[00:01:49] But tell me, what don't you like about this? And I'll see if I can maybe sway your thinking. Sorry. Now, you said tell me why like twice in a row. So, now I have that boy band song. Is that NSYNC or Backstreet Boys? Tell me why. Yep, there it is. It's Backstreet Boys for sure. Yeah. As you can tell, I was deeply invested in the boy band wars of the early 2000s. Okay. Okay. 98 degrees, underrated.

[00:02:19] 98 degrees, underrated. You heard it here first. S Club 7. S Club 7, dude. Not a boy band. Just a band. But, do yourself a favor. If you're a millennial, Google, go on YouTube, S Club 7, blast from the past. Anyway, continue. Okay. Warhorse is in charge and they've officially announced slash confirmed that they are doing an open world Lord of the Rings RPG.

[00:02:45] And, the reason why I am not excited for this, as I should be, or as I don't know, I don't think I should be all that excited, is because Warhorse is a master class in hyper realism. And, that's kind of their game design ethos in video games. Okay. I have my concerns that they will be able to pull off fantasy.

[00:03:11] Something that's not as systems heavy and something that is more fantastical than it is realistic. I also think that open world Lord of the Rings game, I think, listen, I'm not opposed to that idea. I'm not opposed to it being open world. However, as Lord of the Rings snob, man, they got to pick the correct story for that one to work.

[00:03:37] That, however, I feel like maybe I'm less hesitant there. I think that they could probably pick the right story of Middle Earth to do. But, if they did like the fellowship, like Frodo's journey, I'm like, and you make in the open world, you've lost me. You know what I mean? But, those are my initial reservations. Talk me down, Cameron. No, you know what? Like, honestly, it's not that controversial. I think you're right.

[00:04:04] I think, yes, that is like the calling card of the Kingdom Come games is this hyper-realistic medieval life simulator. Which, probably not what we want from the Lord of the Rings game. That being said, I don't even know if we know what we want from a Lord of the Rings game. Because I don't know that we've gotten that many incredible ones. You know. Right? Like, we got. Yeah. We got Shadow of War. We got Shadows of Mordor. Great.

[00:04:33] But, maybe leaning a bit to video game-y, video game, super, you know, like video game. The most video gamers game of all time. Right? Yeah. The Shadow of Mordor games. Obviously, like, the old school Lord of the Rings. Like, Return of the King and the Two Towers. Like, PlayStation. Literally, like, beat-em-up game with, like, the scores going on the screen. I mean, those are some of the best ones.

[00:05:02] And then, you know, the Battle for Middle Earth RTS games. I don't know that we've gotten this take on a Lord of the Rings game. And so, to me, I'm just excited at the idea, I think, of clearly a very talented studio who has very talented production jobs. Yeah. I think they made a lot of upgrades into how they handle combat. And I do think that they'll approach...

[00:05:27] I think they're smart enough and they're a good enough studio to approach this not from the angle of, like, deep medieval simulator, but, like, give it the, you know, sort of the fantastical element. I agree. If they made... If it was, like, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 but set in Middle Earth, that would not work. Yeah. Obviously, I don't think that's what they're going to go for, but that is what they're really good at.

[00:05:52] So, the question is, like, can they do something maybe a little bit different that pulls it off? But, up to that end, I am just genuinely excited that, like, this team executing this concept, I think the possibilities of having something super-duper cool are very high. Yeah. Yeah. Some things I think... Some good points you bring up. One would be, do we know what kind of Lord of the Rings game we want? Because they had... What was the name of that game? It was a farming...

[00:06:21] Cozy farming sim in the Shire. And it... Oh, the... Tales from the Shire. Maybe. Tales from the Shire. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, that was a stinker. Like, I'm sorry. And that seemed... That was not good. And it was reviewed pretty poorly. I watched some streams of it. And it just didn't seem to really do anything all that exciting with the Shire, right? And that, to me, seemed like a slam dunk. I was like, oh, that seems...

[00:06:50] It seemed obvious to me as a player, right? Take Cozy Farming Sims, which are really in. Combine it with the Shire, which is like this super gardening culture in this fantasy setting. And make something really cool. And, yeah, that one did not really pan out. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I agree with you. And this is where I could probably have a little more faith as a player. And not just believe that War Horse is going to make, you know, Medieval Simulator and Lord of the Rings. That's my biggest fear.

[00:07:19] My biggest fear is that it's like, okay, we're going to play as, I don't know, Boromir. And we're going to run Minas Tirith. And we're going to fight losing battles in Asgiliath and Ithilien or whatever. And that to me is like, yeah, you could do that. But I don't know. It seems like kind of a waste of the IP. Do you think the systems would work if they went the Hobbit route?

[00:07:45] In the sense that if you remember the Kingdom Come games, you start off as like sort of a bumbling fool. And then eventually you become like a, you know, like a very capable knight. But the game system like enforces that feeling of like, man, you are really just like bumbling around and I can't do much. You imagine like sort of the Hobbits like at the beginning of Lord of the Rings. Like they're kind of, you know, they want to make pastries and read books.

[00:08:14] And then by the end, you know, they're like pretty accomplished warriors, right? I wonder if there's an angle there with like the systems heavy approach. But I just think that just I just I don't know if that's the route that they're going to go down. I don't think that they'll put as much heaviness on that side of things. Although it would be interesting again, like if they could pull that off and actually make it fun. Like the systems heavy approach, that is sort of a fascinating idea. I just not. I'm sure how you'd execute it.

[00:08:41] I mean, there is thinking specifically about the Hobbits. There is a story, man, and I'm blanking on his name. So I'm not that much, I guess, of a Lord of the Rings snob because I can't remember their name. Tom Bombadil. It's not Tom. Oh my gosh. I'm not thinking of Tom Bombadil.

[00:08:59] I'm thinking of a Took, one of the Tooks who became a warrior and fought one of the first and only battles of the in the Shire. But anyway, that's what came to mind to me. Like you were just kind of this bumbling hobbit and then you become like a warrior, right? No, I think they're probably going to leave the Hobbits behind. It's hard for me to envision Warhorse making a Lord of the Rings game where you're not playing.

[00:09:29] It's just like one of the warriors of men, right? Of one of the kingdoms of men. I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, it seems like the obvious. Yeah, it seems like the obvious route to do something like that. I wouldn't be surprised if they went kind of rings of power route and they started going back to like the Numenorean men, like really classic. And that to me feels like maybe it's a little more in the scope of what we know from Warhorse where it's like it's still grounded in this like medieval setting.

[00:09:58] But there are some fantastical elements, but maybe you're not engaging with them in the same way. I just really don't know. And that's the thing that the other thing that catches me here is the open world aspect, right? Like, okay, if it's just a retelling of one of the many, many, many folk tales or stories of Middle Earth, how do you make that open world and feel significant? Right. So I don't know.

[00:10:23] Like, is there obviously any studio is capable of making a game outside of their wheelhouse of what they're known for and iterating on systems that they already have to create something, you know, different for them. But still is a really good product. I think my hesitation here is like as a player, I cannot envision what Warhorse will do. And of course, this is me kind of armchair debbing a little bit, but I'm like, I don't know.

[00:10:51] To me, I just don't see an obvious connection. But as you pointed out, obvious connections don't always work. Tales from the Shire do not work. Yeah. I mean, I think they're good hands to hold it. But Jake, what would be the studio where you would be like, oh gosh, that's a slam dunk. Honestly, Cameron, you are going to love this answer.

[00:11:13] I know we had talked about this previously and I said Obsidian because I really liked how they did fantasy combat in Avowed, which I think that's actually my second pick. But just to say, I think Obsidian would be a really good pick just because they would absolutely master the power fantasy in combat, wherever there is combat. And you could play, it is open, like they have the track record where it would be open enough where it's like, okay, are you going to be like a dwarf or an elf or a man?

[00:11:43] Or are you totally role-playing as a specifically created character or whatever? I do see a lot of flexibility in there. I actually think a team that could really pull this off would be Larian Studios, man. I actually think they would be the best for a Lord of the Rings game. You already knew that was going to be me. Yeah. My pick. I knew that was going to be your pick.

[00:12:04] But honestly, I was thinking about it and I was thinking about Baldur's Gate 3 and I was thinking, I mean, there is a little, I mean, I think you can make like a really good tactics Lord of the Rings game. And I'm sure that that's already existed in the, you know, there are many Lord of the Rings games, but I feel like that they could really do it. There's an interesting thing with Lord of the Rings in terms of the tone that I think is going to be tricky to figure out.

[00:12:30] Like there's not like the, it's, it's like medieval, but it's almost like safe medieval, right? Like there's not a lot of gnarly, nasty medieval stuff. And I feel like KCD2 really goes deep on that side of it where they get into like the nitty gritty of like medieval times where it's like Lord of the Rings is sort of this polished, like obviously fantastical view of kind of what medieval,

[00:13:00] medieval setting kind of looks like it's an interesting, it's more of a traditional, like good versus evil story as well. Right. So there's not as much like nuance, but they may have a lot of licensing. And I was, you know, thinking about like Larian, if they had this franchise, I'm sure they would have a license to create sort of a new story and whatever time period they're given. Right. Um, I'm actually Jake, my actual dream video game.

[00:13:26] Number one, if I was like putting together potions in a pot, would be a Larian Star Wars game. They would crush a Larian Star Wars game. Oh my gosh, bro. Absolutely knock that out of the park. Once they get divinity out, Lucas, Lucas, Lucas Arts, Disney people, just throwing it out there. Just give them that back. You know what I'm saying? Of course. And Lord of the Rings.

[00:13:53] Um, yeah, my, my initial knee jerk reaction is like there, I don't see how they're going to handle fantastical. And that makes me concerned. Um, I'm a little, I'm a little tempered now. Like, okay, let's see what they do. And again, just in some, my second red flag here is how are they going to make a Lord of the Rings game? That's open world and make it feel pretty meaningful to, to what middle earth, what middle earth history is. So, I don't know. It's a big challenge that got ahead of them.

[00:14:20] There's an opportunity there to make an absolutely fantastic game that sells, you know, millions and millions of copies. Um, and it's been a hot minute since Lord of the Rings has been able to do that. So, I would, I would argue, Jake, here's my prediction. Okay.

[00:14:42] Uh, War Horse's Lord of the Rings game will be the equivalent of Larian making Baldur's Gate 3 for that studio. Oh, for that studio. Okay. I'm like, dang. Does that make sense? Yeah. Meaning it's critically claimed. It sells really well. It will be their, like, universal recognition moment, like, breakout.

[00:15:07] Because, like, KCD2 did, it was very popular and, like, critically acclaimed, but it didn't reach the same mainstream level as, like, Claire Obscure, for example. Or, like, a BG3. Right. BG3 and Claire Obscure are, like, mainstream video games. Right? Yeah. Like, straight up. At this point, this is going to be their shot. Okay. I think they're going to pull it off. Well, prove me wrong, War Horse. I would love to be proved wrong here. Prove him wrong.

[00:15:33] They're also working on KCD3 right now, which I think will come out before this Lord of the Rings game, I guess, is in pre-production. They're having two different studios. So, yeah. That's wild. We'll see how they do it. It'd be interesting to, so, if there's two studios who they partnered with. Because that could make all the difference for me, too. Yeah. Yeah. There was announcements around. So, the new holding group in Embracer is called Fellowship Games. Okay.

[00:16:01] Which they've taken their, like, numerous, numerous studios and combined them into a single company under one umbrella instead of having, like, a whole bunch of splintered studios. So, like, I think War Horse is part of that. Where, like, they're going to be part of this bigger single company with, like, sort of these teams inside of it. And War Horse is going to be one of those teams. But, anyways. All right. Let's see. Well, Jake.

[00:16:30] Enough about that. Let's talk about Destiny 2 is finally over. Yeah. It's over. It's over. It's over, man. It's weird. End of an era. Yeah. End of an era. This is momentous.

[00:16:49] I think people, maybe right now in the moment, man, I bet you anything, by the end of this year, people all over are just understanding how monumental Destiny 2 ending is. And, people, you're going to see a lot of rose-tinted glasses about this game. There's going to be a whole lot of nostalgia. And I don't necessarily think that this is, like, a bad thing.

[00:17:13] My opinion, and, you know, this is somebody, and Cameron knows this quite well, Cameron and I have both put in many, many, many hours into Destiny and Destiny 2. Yes. So, this is a game that we have, you know, laughed with. We have cried with. We've had victories with. And we've had big defeats with. So, it feels monumental, probably, you know, to both of us. This is the end of an era. But also, this is, I don't know, Destiny 2, Warframe.

[00:17:41] There are these games that just managed to pull off this new kind of live service that was kind of lightning in a bottle, I feel like. And the fact that either of those games, for example, have been around for 10 or more years is kind of mind-blowing. That they were actually able to pull this off and be that successful.

[00:17:59] And we've come across many games that have tried to take on this kind of mantle of this, like, console-based, console group player demographic MMO adjacent thing. And many of them have failed. So, it's kind of wild to kind of see Destiny 2 go. So, it's a shame that we're seeing it go in the current state that it is in.

[00:18:26] And that this doesn't feel like a loud hurrah going out with a bang. It feels like it's petered out. And that stings a bit. Yeah. Obviously, I have to speak carefully because I worked at Bungie during when a lot of things were happening. I don't have a lot of insider knowledge. I do have a perspective on what I think actually happened and why we've reached the place that we are.

[00:18:56] Which I, most of which I probably can't say publicly on this podcast. If you ever want to know, reach out to me individually. We can have a private conversation. And I can share some insight. But, no, I'm just, like, incredibly sad. I mean, this is a game that literally, quite literally brought, you know, a group of close friends. Like, our close friends. Jake and I have a close friend group. Get together once a year. Have a, you know, message thread.

[00:19:25] Like, rekindled literal real relationships. Right? Like, this game. I mean, this game got you, Jake, back into video games. Like, you would not be here now if it wasn't for Destiny 2. Like, on this podcast. It's true. Yeah. So, yeah. Super sad to see that end. And, you know, the TLDR is that I think it ultimately comes down to greed.

[00:19:54] It's why we're not getting what maybe we should be getting from Destiny and from Bungie and from that franchise without sharing too much. That's basically all I can say on that. But, yeah, man. End of an era. Super sad. But, I mean, Destiny created, you know, one of the most successful live service franchise franchises. And, you know, they were the game that really did it. And now they're the game that's not doing it. Yeah.

[00:20:24] And it seems like really nobody can do it. And, in fact, the end of this is I think what's even more interesting about this. Because I feel like the end of Destiny 2, looking back on history, will mark the end of the live service era for video games as a whole. I think the live service experiment is coming to an end.

[00:20:48] And I think Destiny 2 shutting its doors is a significant milestone on that journey. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's got to be super interesting to see that. Just because we're seeing shakes up. You know, things are being shaken up is what I want to say. Just in the industry. You know, PlayStation announced that. Or they made an announcement. Maybe it was an internal memo that got leaked. I can't remember exactly at this point.

[00:21:15] But recently that all of their single player games will go back to being PlayStation exclusive. Right? We're seeing sort of an era of experimentation definitely fading away. I think part of that, I agree with you, is kind of how trying to adapt the live service model to a greater public. Now, games like Roblox, Minecraft, Fortnite, they're not going away.

[00:21:38] But I think seeing Destiny 2 close its doors, yeah, tells us that this era of kind of live service experimentation is gone. And it's no longer feasible to try to risk a project like that. I mean, like I said, I mean, actually, I've been thinking about the game Anthem today. Right? I remember when Anthem was being showcased, people were like, this is the Destiny killer.

[00:22:02] And what people really think, I think, meant by that is like, Destiny will finally get some competition in this space with a game that's similar. And then Anthem didn't work, you know? I seriously think, like, that's why I mentioned Warframe. Warframe and Destiny and Destiny 2 are like two games that have similar models that have managed to figure it out. And to see one of those go away is, like, pretty stunning. So, it's really strange.

[00:22:31] I can only imagine what the conversations at Bungie are right now. I know that Jason Schreier already published something and Bloomberg saying that Bungie is looking like it's going to tighten its belt pretty hard here. And that Sony is really unhappy kind of with how that purchase turned out. So, I don't know. It's a little scary, I'm sure, over there. I posted this.

[00:22:57] This is kind of selfish of me because, of course, I feel bad for all the people over there who are, you know, biting their nails. But I was like, man, whatever your opinions were on Destiny, Destiny 2, Bungie is a master class in gunplay. And I would hate to see all that talent go away because, yeah, they were top tier. That was creme de la creme. I mean, what I can say is I believe that Marathon is not going away anytime soon.

[00:23:28] That one's going to cook for a while. So, who knows? Maybe if they're going to get a second crack at trying to get the Marathon player base. This is my opinion. I have no knowledge of anything related to what's happening internally. This is all public knowledge.

[00:23:48] My guess is based on public knowledge of the Marathon situation is that they'll probably get another crack at trying to, you know, make that thing sing from a player base standpoint. And then after that, who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Strange future over there.

[00:24:11] The last thing I'll probably say about this is when Bungie had teased, I think I'm pretty sure it was called Destiny Frontiers. That was something that was supposed to come out near the end of the Destiny 2, the final shape expansion. To me, that really looks like an awesome handoff for the end of Destiny 2 into something Destiny adjacent where you could still keep going with that space power fantasy.

[00:24:39] And man, I'm bummed that that pass was fumbled. Yep. Fumble the bag, as they say, unfortunately. Well, I think that's about it for news. There has been some more shuffling around at Xbox. Some games have come out. We have Force of Horizon 6.

[00:25:08] Jake and I are both playing that one. We'll have an episode on that one for you next week. And then we'll be off after that for our annual man get together. Should we do another Patreon-only episode to spoil all the tea that happens at Man Week 2026? Maybe we will. Probably will. We'll talk about the games that we play. I'm not even sure what game.

[00:25:36] We haven't selected, I think, as a group what game we will be playing. Yeah. Not quite. Maybe it'll be Battlefront. Dude, it might be. I'd be totally okay with that, actually. Yeah. Might be a good pick. Apparently, Battlefront 2 servers pop off every year around May. And then they kind of shrink back down again. But during the month of May, they're pretty packed. Just for Star Wars Day? Yeah. Just multiplayer people want. Dude, if EA is not working on a Battlefront 3, missed opportunity, bro.

[00:26:06] Like, seriously, it's crazy. I don't even know. No one knows. Do they know? I don't even know if they know. They definitely don't know. I mean, they... What does EA know? What does Ubisoft know? Nothing. Nothing. Oh, that was another piece of news that Ubisoft said that this year is not going to be very strong. Yeah. And I'm like, wait. I feel like a lot of years have not been strong.

[00:26:36] Which they have what? But that they're... They have Black Flag Resync coming out. And that's all we know about? Black Flag Resync, which I am excited about. And that is getting great previews and looks gorgeous. And I'm super excited to play that game again. Because I... It's one of my... It's actually one of my favorite games ever. But yeah, we're not getting the next, like, Assassin's Creed... I think the next thing we're getting from them majorly is Assassin's Creed Hexy.

[00:27:05] Which is an Assassin's Creed that's taking place in sort of medieval Eastern Europe. And there's, like, vampires and maybe witches and stuff like that. That sounds right. So that's kind of what they're going for with that one. Which could be cool. Could be definitely an interesting thing. So, um... But other than that... Yeah. That's where we're at.

[00:27:33] With that, ladies and gentlemen, let's dive into the topic of today's show. Which is an indie game from the acclaimed creator of Vampire Survivors. This released just a couple weeks ago. New title from them. Their take on... What? A card battler? A deck builder game. Vampire Crawlers. Jake, how are we going to break this one down?

[00:28:03] Well, this one is going to be a little odd. It doesn't quite fit into our categories really well. So I imagine that it'll all kind of get mashed together at some point. But typically, we break things down by narrative, game design, and then impact on the industry. This is a really unique game, right? In that it is from the studio that made Vampire Survivors. Which was this massive, you know, smash hit. That many... I would almost venture to say this is...

[00:28:30] This breach containment of people who are just interested in video games as a hobby. Like, intensely. A lot of people know about Vampire Survivors. And so Vampire Crawlers is the first thing to come from that. So yeah, we'll be talking... Primarily game design and impact on the industry. In my experience with Vampire Crawlers, I did not really see much of a narrative except kill the bad guys because you're the good guy. I don't know if I have much to say beyond that as well.

[00:28:57] But that's essentially how we'll talk about the game tonight. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know what to say here. There's like an Italian villa with, you know, and you can unlock stuff in it. Jake, I don't think there's any narrative here. There's no narrative. Like, there's no narrative. I tried.

[00:29:24] And you know, whenever we do episodes on games like this, I always try to give it a good effort to see if I can pull something out of this. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. I don't know, man. You're killing vampires. You're still looking for Dracula to kill him. You're killing vampires. You're killing monsters. You're a monster hunter. Does this game need a story that's, you know, making me question my morality and existence? No.

[00:29:50] And I'm kind of okay with it not having anything super impactful to say. Yeah, I think it doesn't do anything narratively, which again, that's not what it's meant to do.

[00:30:02] Although I do think that vampire survivors did a better job of having sort of interesting, semi-interesting or somewhat like background-ish narrative stuff going on, right? Like, it doesn't really have a cohesive narrative, but it like has characters that are tied to like some of the levels that have their secrets tied to them.

[00:30:32] And there's like sort of a little bit of environmental storytelling and sort of some vague things going on with like the different levels that you play through. There's much more of that in like in vampire survivals. I feel like there's like almost none of it here. Yeah, I think they just kind of knew what people would be interested in. And that's like quick snappy gameplay that number go big, you know, number go up. Lots of flair on screen. So that's what they went for. Yeah.

[00:31:02] I mean, I don't know what else there is to say. There's not a narrative here. This is purely. This is essentially like solitaire. Yeah. So with that, we could talk about the gameplay, which is they basically taken the vampire survivors formula and straight up converted it to a deck builder.

[00:31:30] I mean, like it's really is the best way to describe what this game is. Like I was thinking when I was going to play, I was like, oh, they're going to like have some of like the assets. And, you know, it's going to like but it's going to be like its own thing. I think the way that it felt like to me was like they took vampire survivors and literally just jammed it in to the to like a deck builder template.

[00:31:52] Almost was sort of the feeling that I got like when I played this and I think it just right off the bat. This is not a very analytical statement, but it just lacked. The I mean, what makes a deck builder satisfying, right? It's finding fun and interesting combinations of cars that do that makes a lot of people die on the screen, right?

[00:32:20] I mean, that's really what it like comes down to like the satisfying loop of a deck builder. There's some of that here, but like I just it just does not hit in nearly the same way as like a lot of superior deck builders do. And the thing is like there's so many of these for this one to come out and not really do anything to sort of push or bend that genre in any interesting way.

[00:32:44] I think that was just disappointing because coming from the team that made vampire survivors, which is, you know, one of the best games. And its category or is really is the category. Yeah. I mean, people are saying survivors like now because of games that are utilizing that game design at this point. Yeah, it's interesting because they can they combine like deck builder roguelike with I mean really old school dungeon like the controls themselves. Right.

[00:33:14] As you're kind of moving through these different grids on the different maps of the dungeons like you move to a space and you then have to like change the directing that you're facing and then kind of work your way around the different maps that way. Yeah, I walked away. Similarly, like listen, I don't think the game has any like glaring flaws like in terms of what the deck building is like or just doing the dungeon crawling and fighting enemies and and all that jazz. No, no. No, no. Yeah, it has tight game design.

[00:33:44] But man, I just was like, I didn't feel anything from it, which I was really shocked by. And so here I'm kind of echoing what you're just saying. But I was like, this is a studio that made vampire survivors. I kind of thought that there would be something else in here other than just like, I don't know, throwing cards at the enemies. I'll be honest, I felt really old playing this game. So I was like, there's too much on screen and it's too loud.

[00:34:11] And that was kind of my grumpy way attitude of playing the game. So the game design is fine. It's a deck builder. You get cards. You have energy to spend those cards. You spend those cards and that energy and smart ways to stack combos, to do more damage, to progress through the dungeons. You level up, you get better items, you level up different things and you fight more enemies until you can't anymore. It's a formula that works, obviously. But man, I just was playing through it and I just didn't, it didn't reach me.

[00:34:40] Yeah, I kind of felt the same way. Like the loop is you're kind of, you're, you know, pressing the arrow keys. I was on PC. So you're just like, you're moving through sort of a static pathway. You can kind of turn left or right and then you run into different enemy types. But even that, like, it just felt like, I don't know, this is going to sound so negative, but it just felt like uninspired. Like you'd even get to sort of the end mini boss of the stage.

[00:35:10] And like that wasn't anything sort of interesting either. Like it didn't add anything to the mechanics. It didn't really like change up anything. There just wasn't enough going on. I feel like with like a card battle or like you have to have more stuff going on. You have to be introducing like different interesting combos or have like different bonuses. And obviously, obviously that evolves as like you get deeper into the game. But I just don't think it hit on the same level.

[00:35:34] I feel like in Vampire Survivors, you immediately are getting to the satisfying, the satisfaction of the loop where this game was just taking way too long. Yeah. I mean, in Vampire Survivors, it's awesome. And when you got like your first combined artifacts or items or whatever, and you started seeing the abilities really go wild. That was for me one of the biggest incentives was like, well, let's start combining stuff. Like, let's see what's baked into the game. Let's see. Let's peel back some layers. What's hidden here?

[00:36:02] And then I just remember at the time being really taken aback by the kind of minimalist approach to gameplay, you know? And I was like, oh, this is actually really cool, you know? And it was considered a success if you could have a build that was so powerful that you could set your controller down, right? And so like, I remember like even playing this game with my kids. That's what we would do. We would like play before bedtime. And I'm like, all right, guys, this is the big test.

[00:36:29] You guys got to go run upstairs, you know, brush your teeth, you know, do your nighttime routine and come back and see if your character is still alive. Like that was part of the fun of that game. Um, but here, yeah, I'm, I'm with you in this sounds really harsh. It just felt a little lifeless going through the dungeons and using cards. Like, I don't know. Maybe it's caught in this weird space between like vampire survivors.

[00:36:55] We don't have to use your brain all that much and you're just getting pure dopamine versus like a deck building system that, and I'll be honest, I struggled to play this game more than like two or three hours because I was bored. Um, I didn't see the depth or the interest or any hooks like I did in vampire survivor. So yeah, I hit my max pretty dang quickly with this one. Yeah. I, I think I'm right there with you.

[00:37:22] It was, uh, yeah, it just, I mean, look, that doesn't sound like a lot of game time, but like, I just think you have to get there quicker. Yeah. Like in any game, but especially I feel like a cart, uh, a deck builder, like you just have to get there quicker. You have to, you have to show me like what makes it fun and satisfying.

[00:37:46] Um, you know, I think, um, slay the spire and slay the spire to are like a direct competitor that came out like close to when this came out and just, I mean, good grief. That game had like 250,000 concurrence. Um, just because it has such a satisfying loop in terms of what it does, uh, for, for deck building. Yeah. Um, I felt similar.

[00:38:09] I'm, and this game is a little unfair because it also had like a really interesting story component, but the reason it was sort of a masterpiece and got elevated to the status it did was because the deck building was so much, so satisfying and so much fun. And that's, um, oh my gosh, I forgot the name of the game. Uh, what's the card spooky card game? Inscription? Mystery. Inscription. Yes. Insatisfying.

[00:38:38] Like right off the get go. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, inscription to me is pro I'm not like a big fan of deck builders usually. Um, so if you're listening to this and you're mad that I didn't like vampire crawlers, you can, you know, keep that in mind. I'm not, I don't really love deck builders as much as most people do. Um, but dude, inscription. Yeah. And I mean, inscription is probably my favorite deck building game one, because those mechanics got really interesting really quickly. Like you're saying. Super.

[00:39:05] And then two, it was baked into this extremely wild horror story. Yes. That had a really great hook. Right. And for me, like, I feel like, um, that is something that deck builders are totally capable of, of like having a really interesting story to kind of accompany what it is that you're doing as you're battling. Um, but yeah, as we said, vampire crawlers, they, they didn't make a, um, like, that's not the point. The point here is not to make like a super gripping narrative.

[00:39:34] Um, it's for you to just kind of keep going into this loop and find it interesting. But yeah, I'll say it again. It's not looped and not catch me. Let's talk about industry impact for this one. Um, this is interesting because it's the second game from a studio that made vampire survivors, which is renowned, critically acclaimed, maybe one of the most popular games. Period.

[00:40:03] I feel like a lot of people know about this game and love this game, even like sort of gamer adjacent people. So this being kind of their second outing, you think that they were going to bring some of that? Like, yes, we realize it's a bunch of like sort of public domain assets from Castlevania. Yeah. And it's, it's such a simple, simple concept, but the execution like was so, so top tier in terms of like the satisfying gameplay loop.

[00:40:32] I thought that that's what I would see here. I admit that I didn't. So that's interesting, right? Because it has come from the studio that has like, has a bag of money and just did something, you know, that, that became so popular to now see a, their next game fall so flat. That a little bit jarring, honestly. Right. It's so strange because, you know, I have open right now, just like some review scores. This game reviewed really well, like eighties and nineties, you know?

[00:41:04] And I, I could understand that. Like if you got hooked by this gameplay loop that, yeah, you'd sit down and, you know, churn out a ton of hours about it, but you're right. It's odd. This game. I mean, how do you follow up vampire survivors and remain, remain as relevant in the video game conversation as vampire survivors does and did? Cause people are still talking about it.

[00:41:26] Every time you call a game of survivors, like you were paying some sort of, you know, uh, homage or you're making reference to vampire survivors. Right. And so it's, if it's enough to make people utilize the term, that's pretty, pretty wild. I just, I just checked open critic. The top critic review is PC gamer.

[00:41:48] Abby stone gave it a 50 out of a hundred and said, there are moments of fun, especially towards the end, but too often. I just wanted to ram a garlic flavored steak through vampire crawlers, repetitive, grindy heart. What a great line. That is a, that is some, that is a burn. If I've ever seen it. I agree with that too. And I bet that they ended up playing a lot more than I did. Oh, glad I could get out of that. Yeah.

[00:42:16] But yeah, I mean, I don't know, but you're right. It does have an 84. 84 is good, right? I mean, that's great. It's solid. Um, yep. But no one's talking about, I swear, no one's talking about this game anymore. And it came out a month ago, you know? Um, there are several reasons for that, but I just, what I kind of want to get to is this is a great, wonderful, successful game for Ponkel studios, or I think it's just called Ponkel.

[00:42:41] Um, they are in the position where they can make a game like vampire survivors financially and then make a game like vampire crawlers. And it really doesn't matter what the reception is like because that studio will keep going. It's totally fine. And this is, I've talked about this ad nauseum, but these indie studios that have massive viral hits that break containment that become like known within just like popular conversations of video games. Um, yeah, they're set for life.

[00:43:10] Ponkel can make seven of these and there's still going to be a studio that's got their doors open and they're going to be making more games. And so, um, this is a unicorn. This is not something that's easy to repeat, but I kind of see this as a moment for Ponkel specifically where they are experimenting. And I would like to think that, you know, they've got the time and energy and talent to cook something up. That's going to be, uh, that's going to blow our minds all over again and get us totally hooked in talking about it for years to come. But vampire crawlers is not that game.

[00:43:42] No, it is not. Um, yeah, that's tough. That's tough. It's tough, especially to release this when you have, like I already mentioned, uh, like Slay the Spire 2, which was just ridiculously, um, popped off what had like 500,000 concurrence or something stupid for like a 2d deck builder in early access, no less, not even the full one.o version.

[00:44:12] Um, but yeah, but you know what? The studio is talented. The studio has a lot of money. I'm sure they'll continue to up to upgrade this game. Like, like you said, like it got great reviews. Um, and look, the studio is also not done making stuff. They're going to continue to juice the ever living crap out of this. Uh, yeah. How did this, I don't even know if you call it an IP at this point, I guess it is. Vampires. Is that, I don't know. Um, who knows? But they're fine.

[00:44:42] They're set. You know, they're, they're, they're just fine. So yep. Let them keep cooking. Um, yeah. Let us know, uh, in the comments, let us know in the YouTube comments and, uh, um, in the discord and Patreon, if we're wrong. Do we need to give this game some more time? I'll be honest. You got to convince me harder than cameras. Got to convince me that war horse is going to make a good Lord of the Rings game to put more time. You're going to have to pay me. I'll be honest.

[00:45:09] You're going to have to pay me by subscribing at patreon.com slash pre-ordercast and signing up for the deluxe edition and then sending me a direct message. And if you do, I will give the game an additional hour. Nice. How about that? Love this. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cheap, right? Uh, cheaper than a cup of coffee. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for listening to the period of bonus podcast. If you'd like the show, leave a review on your podcast platform of choice helps people find the show helps the show to grow.

[00:45:38] If you want to support us directly, do so patreon.com slash pre-ordercast. Like I already mentioned, get the deluxe edition of the show. We just got one subscription now, pretty much, uh, some news coming in on that front very soon. But for now you can go there. Deluxe edition five bucks a month gets you extended editions of a regular episodes and special topics episode at least once a month. That's, that's the goal. Um, sometimes they don't happen in the same month.

[00:46:05] We've been a little bit delayed on some of those, but we try and get at least 12 of those per year, extended edition, uh, and special topics. Um, and yes, also, uh, watch Jake stream twitch.tv slash chip tip 18. He's streaming pretty heavy schedule, pretty decent, solid schedule lately. He was streaming this morning. Go check him out, go follow him, support him on Twitch. And finally join us, uh, the conversation in the discord link to that is in the description.

[00:46:34] Thank you so much for listening and have a great night.