Super Mario Bros. Wonder

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: The ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of The Pre-Order Bonus podcast.

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm one of your host, Cameron Warren and I'm joined as always by Jacob Price.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Jake, it's November 2nd, 2023. Halloween is now behind us.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Video games believe it or not are still coming out. It's not over.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not over. Alan Wake, two hit last week.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been playing a little bit of that and then the biggest release of the year is still to come.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Next week, time's right.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Next week, stronghold definitive edition. Don't forget it.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what? I just want to say for the record that I've been listening to all these podcasts

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and I've been reading all these articles and they're all saying the same thing.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody saw bouldersgate to re-coming. Nobody saw that coming. Nobody even knew what that was.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me just tell you, I knew what that was.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say except Cameron from the Pooh Error Bonus podcast because if you listen to

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: some of those early episodes from this year, you are all over that game.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: 100% 100% I knew in my heart of hearts and I told you, I told the world and now I think it's

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_00]: gonna win game of the year. And if it doesn't then I will strip naked and run through my town.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, I was taking the two fire. I'm sorry. I'll be all bad.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean Zelda will probably still win because I don't know.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. Listen, listen, hear me out. Hear me out.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay. I kind of think the case is being made that Zelda

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_01]: tears of the kingdom does not win game of the year at some of the biggest outlets.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It's obviously, I mean we've got like a batch of games that are going to win game of the year

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: at different outlets, you know. But like what will be defined as the game of the year?

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of wonder if Zelda tears of the kingdom won't because it's narrative despite it being

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I think better than breath of the wilds. It is still, it's just two empty compared to narratives

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: that we're seeing in other game of the year contenders. You know what I mean? Did you see this

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: meme? Somebody posted a meme because like after she spoilers I guess. But you have to,

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: after you do some of their like main quest steps there's a cutscene that sort of gives a little

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_01]: context to how that main quest ties into the main story and it's almost identical in order

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: to accommodate the fact that the game is open world and you can do these main quest, like Dungeons

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: or missions and any other. Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. You see that like and

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: a people are kind of agreeing with that where it's like this narrative was a little too shallow.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Despite like having the coolest physics and like viral clips of all the wacky stuff that

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: people have done in a game that are still going by, or even these many months afterwards.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that might prove to be a thorn in its side when it comes to game of the year.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe so. I mean maybe so. I think mechanically that game is still pretty wild and crazy and I

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: mean it's still one of my top games of the year. I think it's, it's been overshadowed by

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: at least one game for me. I will say that our Spider-Man 2 prediction I think is not going to

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: come true. At least for me personally. Not that it's bad by any means but I don't think it's,

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it stands toe to toe with the the jigger, not the other jigger, not so this year.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and be on the watch out because or be on the lookout is what I mean to say because our

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_01]: episode in Spider-Man 2 is coming out and if you've been a long time listener for us at least from

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: 2020-3 you know how hyped we were about this game. In Cameron and I have a lot of praise but I think

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_01]: we've got more criticisms there than we anticipated. Fantastic game still but that episode is coming

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: within the next few weeks and it'll be, it'll be a good one to listen to. Yeah so well we'll

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_00]: what have you been playing over the Halloween time and last week or so?

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Well I've gained some confidence after finally being, I finally playing and beating

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: resin evil to remake where I started playing Alan Wake remastered because I was like oh I'm going

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_01]: to try to beat the first game before the sequel or not before the sequel comes out but before

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to start the sequel. So I've been playing a little bit of Alan Wake remastered

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: you and I hopped in with a friend of ours shout out to Robzoor we played some deep rock

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_01]: galactic which I had a really great time playing. Did you did you not play that when we

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: played that like last year around the time? I played it. No I played it or did you? Okay and I thought

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: it was like fine I don't know this time around though like something is clicked with that game in me

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: probably because the last time I tried to play it was after we had played it about a year ago

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and I tried playing it solo and that game is just not nearly as exciting solo as it is in a group.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_01]: No that is a game that I think you need at least one other person to be playing with.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah but yeah we played that I've been playing a ton of super Mario Bros Wonder obviously

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been playing a ton of Spider-Man 2. I just be solar ash and I just started

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_01]: freaking my French because I can't pronounce this word juosont juosont? I don't know however the

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: French would say it. Justant. How else Americans would say it but that game juosont.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Justant. Something like that. Juosont. I don't know but I've been playing that and

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that game has been a massive surprise. I played through the first chapter of it and

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I love it man. That game was I have a beat at you obviously but that game is really good.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I really like it. Yeah it's very cool. I played juosont obviously juox that we played some

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_00]: more deep rock galactic. That game was just great. It's super solid. Just multiplayer fun.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_00]: ton of variety in the game modes. Great art style with shockingly great lighting.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. That makes everything really look greater than I think it, I don't know. It kind of

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: beats your expectations a little bit. I don't know how to explain it but it's

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: now super fun. It's got a great loop to it and just fun multiplayer.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Also I've been playing Alan Wake 2 which is I mean Alan Wake 2 is

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Alan Wake 2 is wild. Did I miss close to you? Alan Wake 2 is one of those games that

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: as an experience will probably stand potentially above the rest. As just like a media experience

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: that's doing a lot of really weird stuff, like really weird stuff and it's doing it really well

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and it has just these sort of interesting mechanics in it that I feel like you just are not

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: really doing in many other games that also. It's just a really unique cool experience.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really enjoying it. I don't know if it's going to be like my favorite of the year,

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: binding means but but it's pretty dope. Yeah so I'll be honest if you had asked me about Alan Wake 2

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: probably two months ago I would have said yeah I'm probably going to skip this and then

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: our discord we asked them like hey what games do you want us to cover before the year ends?

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: People voted on Alan Wake 2 and then I was like okay fine we'll get it but man I am feeling

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01]: formal real bad. I'm very close to dropping most every game I'm playing will be like

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: alright what is the deal? I have it I own it it's I see every single time I boot on my xbox

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: but I've been holding out and I think my my patients or my wheel powers run and out

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: to just not figure out what all the hype is about. Yeah I feel like you're going to have to play

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: this Jake and yeah you're definitely going to have to play it before the end of the year.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah still lots of good stuff out. Looking forward obviously to stronghold next week

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I think and then Mario Super Mario RPG later this month.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Avatar game could surprise us I don't know the previous look pretty dang good I got to be honest.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah we've got the avatar game as far as Indies go spirit T finally got a release date that's November 13

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah spirit T so that is coming out man I don't know but we've got we've got a whole lot going on

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know I'm excited but I'm also excited to get towards the game of the year conversation

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_01]: we haven't quite started pinning down that episode because it is going to be a doozy for sure

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_01]: but yeah my mind just kind of headed towards as soon as I hit November I was like alright it's time

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: to start thinking about what were the best games of the year and what were my favorite games

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that I played this year as well some people in our discord were sort of asking hey what games you

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: guys are like kind of the top of your list so far and so I've really been thinking about it and

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's obviously that episode is going to be a lot of fun but it's going to be pretty tough coming

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: up with winners in my opinion yeah that will be there's just there's a big list there's definitely a

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: brand news which as all of you if you listen to the show probably heard a bungee company I

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: work for has had some very unfortunate layoffs this week and I can't comment on the why's or

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_00]: the what's or anything other than to say that I did not get laid off yay so I have a little bit

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: survivor guilt so I can I can say that much you know what I think I can say is that this I think

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I have to at least somewhat agree with Parasallelie who tweeted a few days ago that

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_00]: 2023 is no longer the greatest year in video games right because of despite all the the amazing

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: titles that we've had a lot of people at a lot of different companies have lost their livelihoods

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_00]: because of this industry so I don't know if and I don't really know the reason for it I think one

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_00]: of the one of the guesses that I have and it's not really a guess but it's maybe it's obvious

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: as that the market is incredibly crowded and maybe a crowded market is bad for the big boys

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: in the ring yeah you know what I'm saying and especially the big boys who have been dominating

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: the ring for so long at least the past four or five years right where it's been sort of the

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: one to punch of the fortnight and the war zones and the apexes and the roblox and the minecraft right

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: where they're kind of just sitting at the top GTA online they're just kind of said at the top

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and kind of everyone sort of rides away below them and when you suddenly have this influx of incredible

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: games from all across the industry from all these different genres suddenly people have a lot

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: stuff to play yeah and I think it just makes it it's this year it's sort of come to a head where

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: it's come to a head with like the live service games where I think the industry really really

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: showed up this year and so for those games it's been a struggle and then you have obviously

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: the pandemic where nobody was doing anything else but play these types of games that they can

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_00]: play every single day and so you have these massive boost of numbers and how does capitalism work right

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_00]: you look at fortnight where they got you look at epic where they got all this money coming

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_00]: during COVID all this investment money bottle these companies and then they all flopped

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: because they couldn't maintain the momentum so yeah anyway it's tough and and I'll just say

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_01]: just somebody who speak it for my own experience when you kind of wien yourself off of any type

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: of MMO or any type of live service game and you discover that there are lots of good games out

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: there it is really hard to go back to that live service model because while it's fulfilling

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_01]: you might realize you happen all these other games are also fulfilling too and it's fun playing

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_01]: something that is different and you know that's kind of the trap of live service games is that

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_01]: you're kind of stuck playing one type of game and what happened in my case is as soon as I kind

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_01]: of started branching out to other games I realized oh my gosh I have all these itches that are

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_01]: being scratched because I've been playing this one game and I've kind of become number immune to those

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: itches and as soon as I let myself play all these other games it is extremely difficult to get

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: drawn back into live service games so I don't know I think that's part of it because of the

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: people are playing a lot of games they're playing a lot more games 2022 comes around and there's

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_01]: this massive variety of games that are scoring they're coming out of the gate was like a minimum

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: of 90 a Metacritic you know and when that happens and if you're paying attention to gaming

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_01]: social media at all and you're like oh my gosh this game everybody loves it like let me check it out

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_01]: you know it's it's really hard to go back to that sort of giant live service game that

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: you had sunk so many hours and in money and too that's hard yeah so I mean I think the good part of this

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: the if there is something good to say is that this will push companies and teams and individuals

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_00]: to go harder to figure to to make better stuff inevitably it's not the way that you want

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_00]: it to happen I think especially if you're you're someone working in one of these companies

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: but ultimately it's going to push people to make better products and it's going to result in

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: better stuff and that's just the reality because if you survive it's going to result in better stuff

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah right because you're forcing yourself to kind of dig deep and figure out how do I

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: make the game better so I can keep it alive speaking broadly and speaking generally

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_00]: this is not commentary on my such you know on my come right such a wish on just kind of general gas

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_01]: service games yeah so yeah I mean I'm I'm with you that is the one thing that's coming out of

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: this in the dream scenario is that you have that type of mentality coming forward but with the employee

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: retention right that's the dream scenario is is how do you keep all that talent on board and

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: there are so many examples actually in the industry despite all this bad news that we're hearing

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_01]: about from epic and from other studios right where like having that sort of talent retention

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_01]: just allows for I think a more streamlined or maybe cohesive process in developing games

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and the example that I'm going to is from software now of course we don't really know very much or

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know very much if there's like a crunch culture or there's some downsides there but from what I

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: understand there's high retention there they make a specific type of game and they make it extremely well right

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and I would love for that to be sort of the scenario going forward um after 2023

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: where studios figure out hey this is the type of gave me awake it's really we're really good at it

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_01]: now let's have people stick around so that they have the expertise that the studio has collectively

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_01]: so that they can like build into that and just become like top-notch experts in the gaming industry

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_01]: at what that studio produces right that's the dream we've got we've 2023 I think has shown

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_01]: if anything that like the games industry is not nearly exhausted with ideas and creativity

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and quality but that can be pushed even further we just need to figure out this retention aspect of

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_01]: it so we don't have to wake up to another week of hey hundreds of people just got laid off because some

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_01]: people didn't figure out how to deal with the pandemic you know wave which I'm generalizing and of

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: course I don't want to like compromise camera at all I'm not saying that about any company specifically

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_01]: but that is part of the tendency that we're seeing with a lot of these layoffs

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: yes it is unfortunate but hopefully hopefully this leads to good things and you know I hope

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_00]: the individuals who got laid off um you know these are super talented folks I hope they quickly find

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: new employment because there should be money in these companies to hire people there's at least

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: in theory if it's not the one that you just got laid off from it yeah it's somebody else right

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I know it doesn't work like this but in my brain as soon as I heard about I think it was the epic layoffs

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought hey didn't activate and Blizzard just get 69 billion dollars any chance that they could

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: hire on 900 folks without money um I think obviously I'm speaking out of ignorance because I don't

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_01]: know exactly how that money gets spent or how it gets used but the other part of me just looking

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_01]: at it face values like okay there's there's money in this industry why are people being laid off you

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_01]: know what what is the disconnect happening there but obviously we could talk about this forever

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_01]: but we've got to talk enough money yeah that's okay yeah you're probably right

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: we'll take with that we can transition to our game for this episode which is speaking in

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Tando another big Nintendo hit of the year super Mario Wonder JK we're gonna break this one down

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_01]: we will be talking about super Mario Bros Wonder in our classic four categories if this is your first

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_01]: time listening to the podcast sort of buckle up this is how a lot of these episodes go

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: first one category is narrative so we'll be talking about the story theme storytelling I mean folks

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a Mario game so this might be one of our shortest categories tonight but that's what we do first

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and then secondly we'll be talking about mechanics so this is how you're interacting with the game

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: this is the first 2D Mario and forever and so we're gonna be talking about this game and obviously

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_01]: the legacy that Mario has in gaming but we're gonna be talking about the mechanics and how this game

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: does more than just jump from platform to platform uh next we'll be talking about the gameplay loop

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and so this is sort of the patterns baked into the game that help you progress forward into the

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_01]: game that keep you engaged that keep you excited about playing and then finally impact on the

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_01]: industry um with a game of this caliber from this high profile of a studio we tend to sort of

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_01]: talk about what it's doing with trends very broadly although obviously here we'll be talking about

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe maybe briefly the state of 2D platformers and other things that Mario is doing

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: how Mario is still sticking around but yeah this is this is always a fun category for us

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: we tend to speculate a little bit see who and how different people are taking notes on the game

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_01]: that we're covering so in this case tonight Super Mario Bros Wonder so that is how we will be

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_00]: breaking down this game on tonight's episode. Well Jake Super Mario story um you know that's your

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: basic girlfriend go to different world and get taken but actually that doesn't happen in this game

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_01]: that actually is a little different we have we have so they different in this game

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Peach is not lost in the game. The Mario the Mario college friend group you know it's Luigi it's

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: the Toads it's it's Peach it's uh what's the orange princess's name I can't remember. Daisy

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Daisy they head off to this little uh flower world and they meet with the king and they're

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_00]: having like a good old time kind of cruising the Mario multiverse and Bowser shows up

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: he eats a Wonder seed and then he like turns into an evil castle and then you gotta go help

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: this king of the new world that you're in take down Bowser which is what you do and you do that by

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: getting super high on Wonder seeds now. Grabbing Wonder Seeds and making crazy stuff happen

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean I don't think there's any more else to say about the narrative than that. It isn't that

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean Mario finally embraces in the 21st century how insane the idea of Mario was you know 40 years ago

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: hey let's just take let's just take this random plumber right and throw them into the mushroom

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: kingdom and have them jump on dudes um and eat mushrooms like that's it right and I feel like they're like

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: okay super Mario Bros Wonder uh Wonder might be some type of I don't know in situation here

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe the PG way of saying super Mario Bros get high. But yeah the narrative here there are

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_01]: there's Prince Florian who's some I don't know Prince Florian that's what I meant by the king. You

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: don't you know sorry. Oh yeah what's his he I don't know he's like a a slug caterpillar man

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: with a flower. His citizens seem to be little flower pods. Yeah but he's like a

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes of some kind that rides on Mario's back

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah he rules with an iron fist because as a caterpillar he could just eat a bunch of flowers if he was up to

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So he's he rules this brutal dictator rules by fear yeah

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_01]: there's no agency or freedom amongst his citizenry. No okay

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know we're making stuff up because this is a Mario game and I mean no fence Mario games with the story

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: matter Mario. It doesn't matter guys yeah yeah dude it the story doesn't matter all you need to know

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: all's you need to know as I heard people saying New Jersey all the time is uh that Mario is just going

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: around trying to save the flower kingdom. Mario that's how you say on the East Coast it is Mario

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_00]: um Mario with Luigi. That's horrible I apologize to anyone from New Jersey if you're

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_01]: they're not offended they're fine now you want to fence a new from New Jersey

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: you you ask for a scoop to bagel do you know that is a scoop to bagel no okay sorry guys we got a

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: DV8 because we're feeling time because Mario Superpose Wonder has no memory. This is this is

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: tracks right because it's a Mario from like okay he's not from New Jersey but he's from Brooklyn

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: right. It's not a clean right from the movie like from my Mario Lord yeah my Mario Lord people

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: you know practice if you want to he's from New York right and this is true of people people

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: New Jersey New York are really protective of their bagels and I got a mint best bagel I ever had

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: on this planet was from Morris Town New Jersey so the way to offend these people is to ask for

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: scooped bagel and what a scooped bagel is is you have your bagel it's kind of half and then you

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: literally like go around the ring of each half and you scoop out like all the bready parts which is

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_01]: the bagel shell and why would you do that if you are insane I think that's what you like I don't even

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: know what that is to ask to offend someone. I don't get it um but yeah anyway

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Mario only serves you know sorry my New Jersey accent's bad I haven't practiced it in a

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: while but Mario only Mary y'all. The only serves bagels not scoop bagels. Bagels. That's bad oh my gosh

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_01]: New Jersey folks you're offended it's okay you're allowed to throw stuff at us but I don't think anyone

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_00]: the analytics says no one from the east guy is listening so. shower now. This is going to be like

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_01]: a hate viral episode and people on these coasts can be like these dudes talking about scoop bagels

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and doing bad accents man. Anyway Mario yeah what happens um you run around all these different

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: kingdoms Bowser juniors in there they're all like doing crazy psychedelics with these wonder seeds

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and you you want to set things right and help Prince Florian get the flower kingdom back in order

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and um let me tell let me ask you something about the wonder seed right so if it's a seed

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_00]: then by nature it plant it gets planted and turns into some sort of plant is that but I feel like

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_01]: there are no wonder plants in the game right that is the assumption is that they return into wonder

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_01]: plants now uh to be totally honest and in transparent with our listeners I am oh I'm like

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_01]: a third of the way into world six which is the last world so who knows maybe there's a wonder plant

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_01]: with the Bowser castle spawns maybe that's that's pure speculation though but honestly uh there's

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_01]: no indication there's been zero foreshadowing that perhaps the wonder seed would become a wonder

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_01]: plant because after you be each world you get a royal seed so a part of me thinks that these seeds

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: just become bigger seeds and they don't actually germinate but interesting my gosh it's yeah

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: but get back look at what's so much of no one cares about the story it's it's fun

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: my kids my kids actually what they do they didn't really get into Mario into the Mario movie so

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Mario movie you did your job they're all like oh it's they just transplant the personalities

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_01]: from the movie onto the characters sweet I'm gonna play as Luigi because Luigi's silly because he's

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: afraid of everything or I'm gonna play as Toad because Toad was hilarious in the movie and that's

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_00]: that's about as deep as everything gets let's talk about the mechanics which is the most important part

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_00]: super Mario wonder uh I mean look it's a Mario game so it's a plot farmer but they

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_00]: went all out here I think this is like this is the next level next generation

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_00]: you know handcrafted step up in the Mario Toadie pantheon like they went all out like they did the

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_00]: thing on this um yeah I think they treated this like you know like a 3D Mario almost in the

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of zaininess and like how they advanced the formula from older 2D titles which most recently

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_00]: was like the Super Mario Bros you what's then they put on the switch I'm not forgetting any other 2D

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Mario's in my no that's all that's that's reported they they reported that Super Mario Brothers

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you to the switch which was actually originally I think a 3DS game I want to say I think it was

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: like a Super Mario Bros yeah something like that it was that was a port the Wii U game was a

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_00]: port of the 3DS game and the switch was the port of the Wii U version yes okay there was nobody

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00]: plays because nobody bought a Wii U but but anyways yeah they took that and they just kind of went

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_00]: all out and so I think mechanically some of the interesting things that they've done

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_00]: is the whole feel of the game I think has been overhauled and that's in like the animations

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and how everything looks and feels and let me just tell you they went all out with the animations

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: like they are bonkers just the the amount of quality in these animations is stunning like just

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_00]: really stunning and they do stuff where they'll use an animation once and they'll just do a

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_00]: thing once because of the wonder things that happen which is like the big mechanic here is like

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: you run it through the level your jump in your doing your thing you're not gonna goomba's and then

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_00]: you'll come across a wonder state and then that will add some crazy zany trans-dimensional powers to

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_00]: the level yeah that kind of just blow it up and it's different every single time it's different I

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_00]: have not seen anything repeated like in these you grab a wonder seat and you don't know what you're

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: it's wild the amount of creativity and variety and that's sort of the basis of like

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: the new mechanics there's a lot more stuff there's like there's interesting and Jake

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_00]: will go into some of that but right off the bat those two things just advance to this title

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I think to the next level yeah I mean it's at its core it is what you would expect from a 2D Mario

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a bunch of platforms you're going from left to right and you just want to get to the flag at

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_01]: end and you want to hit the top of the flag pole so you know it does it says wonderful and you slide

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_01]: down it and then you get a wonder seat and move on but yeah there are two wonder seats per level

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_01]: for most levels for I would say for every standard level there are two wonder seeds and getting

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_01]: the one that's in the middle of the course like Cameron said drastically shakes things up where

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_01]: suddenly the platforming is going to be different and so mechanically yeah you're just trying to get

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_01]: to the right side of the level after starting up the left side at the level but I have to say

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean this might just be a generational thing I don't know exactly I typically have not been

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_01]: the biggest 2D Mario fan because a lot of times it felt like they're just brutal as heck especially

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: those older games man holy crap you can and hey older gamers out there you can call me a little baby

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: it's fine because those original Mario games are tough as nails but the part of the reason I

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_01]: didn't really like them is because I felt like they were really floaty and that every single level

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_01]: felt like you were in an ice level where you would slide a bunch so timing was always hard for me

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_01]: to just get comfortable with I don't know what they did in Super Mario Bros. Wonder or maybe

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I just it finally clicked with me but the platforming has never felt tighter in my opinion here

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: it's the best it's to me the best feeling platformer I've ever pointed it feels incredible

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's I think it's like in assertion of dominance Nintendo's like by the way Mario is the

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_01]: King of 2D platformers I don't know if you've all forgotten this but yeah just case you forgot

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: no one can touch how this feels so yes your your cancel you're done you're done it's over

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: don't even try to attain this level the other thing I want to mention mechanically is that you

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: yes this is another huge addition this is a huge addition and I love this addition where

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_01]: they're kind of divided up into two camps one I feel like there are orange ones and blue ones and the

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_01]: orange ones will add or enhance some type of basic ability so for example one that you can

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: unlock as you can get like this crouch jump where if you crouch and you hold it down long enough

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_01]: you'll jump vertically much higher than you would normally and a lot of these sort of movement

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: mechanics are just classic and old school like if you dash and then jump you'll be able to generate

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: a little more momentum and get a little more height than if you were just walking or if you're

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: standing still and so getting a bunch of these orange badges are going to manipulate that the one

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_01]: that I use a lot I ironically enough for somebody who dislikes 2D Mario's floating this is one that

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_01]: adds a little bit of floatingness and height at every single one of your jumps

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_01]: yes I use that badge quite a lot there's another one that just like increases your dash speed

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and it makes it so that you can dash better on certain you know terrain and so those things I love

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_01]: that because you can kind of customize your play a little bit in there as well if you're like

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_01]: man I struggle with this aspect of Mario platformers hey there's an ability here that probably shakes

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: up or completely adds a brand new ability so that you can get through levels more comfortably

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and then the blue ones I feel like are more um more power up based and less movement based

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and I haven't used the blue badges that much but for example one is like automatically start with

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: mushroom power up so you're never playing as like I've been playing as Luigi so you know you're

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: never playing as low Luigi you're always playing as big Luigi as you go through the levels and

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: then there are other ones that are much more along like those lines one is like a if you fall into a

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_01]: pit or lava you get one free bounce out of that pit with this badge per level and so it's basically

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_01]: like a quick little safeguard you know for for people my kids actually really air into this they're

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_01]: not huge Mario fans they like super Mario Odyssey and they love this because they get a customized

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_01]: with the badges and in changing them up if they're having issues with the level but like you know

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna put on a blue badge and this will help me out here I love the badges I think they're

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00]: an amazing addition yeah super great um it's cool to have those and as replayability right

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_00]: because like you can go back to different levels and switch your badges out which for like the

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_00]: the completionists out there that's gonna be key I'm sure like going back through these levels

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to get all the secrets and all the coins and you know make sure you land every single thing

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and get that 100% like I'm sure you're but you can already see situations where like you need

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_00]: to have a certain badge activated in order to hit certain parts which is great and like adds

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_00]: replayability the other big mechanic here I think is to talk about is is obviously low-hole multiplayer

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_00]: which works fantastic you can play four players and they have this whole roster of characters

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: there right so you can play as Mara Luigi, Daisy, Peach and then the Toads

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_00]: but then what they also add is you can play as Yoshi since sort of writing Yoshi you can play

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_00]: as a Yoshi and the clutch this is why this is the clutch family game because the Yoshi is

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_00]: invincible and other players can ride on top of you when you play as Yoshi so if you're like

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_00]: going through a level with your kids and it's frustrating because they're you know five

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and want to run ahead and die or they're like getting frustrated apart they can't get through

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_00]: like some platforming session but it's like just like jump on top of me and then you can just

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00]: run them for it which is a mate like quality of life is like out of this world from that

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_01]: standpoint but that also reminds me have you tinkered with the online stuff?

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_00]: No as is about to mention is there's also you can enable online play and then what happens is

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_00]: when you play the level you're getting like almost like a dark souls like from soft style

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_00]: shadow players who are also playing the level at the same time as you you will see them on

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the screen and so it's this like sort of you know almost like massively multiplayer where

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_00]: you're playing with other people even though that you're not technically playing with them but

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_00]: you play the level you can see what they're doing and it helps for discovering secrets

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's just kind of fun to like see other people playing the level on like yeah it's a

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_01]: cool addition for yeah I've mostly been playing online actually I've been playing almost the entire

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_01]: game single player and online I I freaking love the asynchronous multiplayer here and it's

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: some degree it's like not even asynchronous but for the most part it is I would say

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and I love that type of creativity that comes with asynchronous multiplayer and so

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: part of what happens is like if you die you'll be a ghost for five seconds and if you can quickly

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_01]: speed either to a fellow player who's in the mission or in the in the level or to like there's

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_01]: these little like cardboard cutout like flip things I can't think of the name that they have

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_01]: in the game or if you run into one of those then you'll kind of like be resurrected but with like

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_01]: base health like with one life and I like this a ton because it allows you to be really helpful

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_01]: if you see a ghost speeding towards you typically you can just stop they could run into you

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and then they're back into the level and you can feel like you help somebody out by leaving the little

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_01]: cardboard cutouts around they're essentially a signal for like where secrets are or a lot of

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_01]: people tend to play some and where where people die really often and so if they die as a ghost

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and maybe it's something that's unexpected maybe the levels is just trolling you really hard at this

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: one point here there's typically some sort of work around thanks to somebody else who's been

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_01]: playing the game I just love this type of interaction I think it's so much fun and if you're playing

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_01]: single player so what you can do is there's if there's a part where you die maybe often there's a

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_01]: difficult platforming section for you you can kind of just get to that section wait and if other

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_01]: players are around you make your attempt and if you die you can essentially just get a free check point

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_01]: by running into other players at the same spot until you figure out how to get through the platforming

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_01]: or if one of their fellow players is way ahead of you in a level you can just spam through

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_01]: because as a ghost you can fly through everything without taking damage spam through the tough

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_01]: section until you reach the other person and then you'll just kind of resurrect past the difficult

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_01]: section so maybe that sounds like cheating easy baby mode I don't really care I think it's cool

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's a fun way to interact with other players and it is immensely satisfying to

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_01]: help somebody find a secret or when somebody helps you find a secret that you were just going

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_01]: to blow past I love it I think it's an amazing addition let's talk about the gameplay loop

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_00]: this part of the game is pretty similar to other games I think made differences that instead of

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_00]: progressing through the different worlds and then like the end world will have the final boss

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that you have Bowser is a castle like literally turns into a castle goes and floats like in the

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_00]: middle of the world and that way you're doing is your goal is to gather oh my gosh what are

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the big seeds called Jake like the big ones royal seeds you're gathering these royal seeds

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: which come from doing these like challenging levels in the different parts of the world

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and when you get them you will eliminate one of Bowser castle's giants

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_00]: man my Mario terminology is not what are the chompers big chompers right cloud prontas

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: the cloud pronta oh my gosh pronta cheese um yeah so then when you get one you can eliminate

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_00]: one of those and so you progress through the worlds that you continue to eliminate those until

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_00]: you get all of them and then you'll do the end of the game but um a couple little flashes they

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_00]: added is like when you go to different parts of the world it's not just um it's not always just

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_00]: like linear pathways like you'll reach these little sort of open things where you can choose the

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_00]: level that you want to do and like what order you want to do them in which I think is just that's a

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_00]: like flourish to it yeah and then I mean yeah that's pretty much it right that's it I mean I think

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_01]: levels are really only gonna take you five minutes to get through um most levels like I said every

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_01]: standard level is gonna have two one-to-seeds there are some sort of quote unquote bonus levels

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_01]: that will award one seed or will award a badge in one one-to-seed and you typically need about

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a minimum of like 15 to get through a world and there will be some like

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_01]: checkpoints where it's okay in order to access the the rest of this world you need a minimum of

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_01]: seven one-to-seeds or 11 one-to-seeds at this point to get through to to the boss or to the just

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_01]: next section so yeah I like that I've been making significant progress in this game and I don't play

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_01]: more than I don't play more than like 30 minutes at a time and I feel like I get a lot done in a play session

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_00]: right um I really like that I enjoy this I just played with my son for you know probably 45 minutes

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_00]: tonight and I mean we did probably six or eight levels maybe yeah I mean we just we just did a

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_00]: hang like it wasn't super frustrating it's you know he dies but it has a very forgiving like death

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_00]: mechanic where you just appears a ghost and you can kind of run back to your uh ticket revived

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's you know it's really easy yeah it's just it's just really smooth everything is just really

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_00]: smooth I just I haven't run into anything like in the loop that just like it's causing any frustration

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_00]: now that being said not at the very end of the game just being candid right and um have not reached

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_00]: like the end game and I really and I know that there are specific challenges that are super

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_00]: challenging but they come later on and are like not gonna interrupt like the flow of the game

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_01]: in any way from what I understand yeah I would say that's absolutely the case levels are ranks from

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_01]: like a one to five star difficulty where I'm at the at the game which is you know the the last part

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_01]: of the game that end game um you get into every world and the first levels are always like two

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_01]: stars of difficulty and by the time you get to the last part the final level might be four stars right

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and so I feel like the pacing is is established to the point where hey like let's get people through

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_01]: this game you know and like you mentioned with um you you don't have to complete the the game isn't

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_01]: like entirely linear where you have like these sort of open areas where you can pick maybe you only

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_01]: want to do four out of five levels there or even like three out of five but you really comfortable

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_01]: with them and you can easily get both one proceeds in a in a level so you don't need to do all five

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and so you kind of just pick and choose which ones you want to do if one is just frustrating you

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_01]: just kind of pick something else and move on so yeah the the gameplay loop here like you said it's

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_01]: buttery smooth they're really really very few snags if any as you're trying to progress from one

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_01]: world to the next I'm all like like I said I've never had a play session where I get into it and I'm like

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_01]: no progress here unlike Elden Ring where I was stuck three nights on on a boss you know where

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like crap tonight in this game session I managed to go from dying consistently on one like

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_01]: three fours health to one half health that and that's tiny the tiniest measurable progress ever

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_01]: super Mario Bros. wanted us to complete opposite you're always moving forward.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Jake any other thoughts on the gameplay loop or mechanics here? I would say to just throw

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: one criticism in I've played a little bit of two player and I don't like how the camera operates

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_00]: in multiplayer that is a great call out yes this is that's like my one big flaw yeah this is the

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_01]: flaw so I was actually playing with my wife once you know we were doing multiplayer and we had hit

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_01]: midway through level we found a wonder seed and it gave us a ability to jump vertically like really high

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and so to accomplish that segment you needed to move vertically through the level and we covered quite

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of distance this was a problem because in multiplayer the camera follows one person and it's

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_01]: hard to tell when it follows one person so frequently because we weren't timing or jumps at the

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_01]: exact same time one person would be way off screen and in fact so off screen that they would automatically

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_01]: die and so yeah so like I know this is like a fringe case like hyper-specific scenario it was a

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_01]: home the point that like hold up this camera actually does not function in all scenarios like an

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_01]: all multiplayer scenarios and then just like in a more regular level every now and then just having

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_01]: the camera jerk to away from your character just doesn't help yes and also so the way the camera works

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_00]: is it picks the leader depending on either who just died or who's like leading and points or

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_00]: the last person to get the higher point on the flag okay and it switches off but this is especially

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_00]: problematic when you're playing with a kid and he's like running way far ahead of you and you're

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_00]: just like I can't keep up and he's gonna die and then you die yeah yeah and I don't know what the

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_00]: solution is for this I'm trying to think back to the other games I think maybe the screen

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_00]: gets wider and then it reaches like a lock point I don't know exactly but yeah like the level you

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_00]: just mentioned we actually just recently and I was thinking to myself like how is my kid gonna like

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_00]: stay with me on this like it's impossible he just dead yeah yeah because in that level and I know

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_01]: this is I'm saying it again it's a very specific case it like just automatically kills the second player

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_01]: like if you are not the one who's in-screen you just die that's it at the same time one of those

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_00]: one received a vise where you're like what the crap is going on right now this is like really cool

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and weird and like I don't understand this game but yeah this game definitely takes Mario to its

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_00]: weirdest to its very weirdest and it's great let's talk about impact on the industry um yeah I'm not

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_00]: sure I mean look this is Nintendo in their bag like nobody does it like Nintendo like they just

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_00]: don't like they they are the kings of create they it's weird because they don't make anything new

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_00]: but simultaneously they make the most new stuff ever like they they just take their franchises

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and they constantly find ways to evolve them while still maintaining like the core

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_00]: aspects that make them all time like generational hits but then continue to evolve them in ways

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_00]: that like surprise and delight you and it is just they just operate on a different level and one

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_00]: quick stat all throughout which is absolutely wild listen this four of the five people

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_00]: who worked on super Mario world for the Nintendo super Nintendo worked on super Mario Brothers wonder

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_00]: talking about employee retention apparently the status that Nintendo has 98.8%

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_00]: British cow so essentially if you go to work for Nintendo you will never leave

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_01]: you'll never lose your job oh my gosh um obviously I don't know I mean there were stuff coming

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_01]: out I think was it year or two ago about people not being very content at their work in Nintendo

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_01]: but I kind of feel like going back to a conversation at the beginning of that episode

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_01]: they're definitely lesser there's a lesser evil there right um is your company consistently like

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_01]: laying off people or is your company retaining people but you need to just be better

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_01]: with the people that you have that you're keeping I do think there's a lesser evil between

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_01]: those two but anyway getting back to this conversation about like Nintendo broadly holy cow

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_01]: it's funny because I feel like for maybe not our generation but maybe for our kids right

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_01]: it would be easy for them to look at something like Mario and be like yeah Mario is the game

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_01]: that my dad played when he was a kid but I'm in the Roblox you know and then Nintendo releases

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_01]: super Mario Bros Wonder and it's like no this this is you know this is a franchise that has

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_01]: its own legs that's not living exclusively on reputation or its classic status or its history

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_01]: but this is a franchise that deserves to continue to be around because it's still good like

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_00]: you know what I mean does that make sense? No it totally does it's like pan generational like so many

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_00]: generations all have been surprised and delighted by Mario and they keep doing it right it's never

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_00]: never get stale it never fails right uh surprise like my son loves Mario it's this like favorite thing

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_00]: that's crazy you know he's five years old this is the franchise it's been around for

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_00]: decades and decades at this point and it keeps reinventing itself um and it's literally like his

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_00]: favorite thing like he was Mario for Halloween and you know seen the movie like 500 times so

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_00]: it's just wild and then like to piggyback that on the fact like you would think especially in

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_00]: a technical field like game dev you think like well you want new people to come in kind of shake things

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_00]: up and like bring new ideas but it's the same people yeah it's the same people that's wild

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_00]: right like that they can get this creative in this wild with these franchises it Zelda being another

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_00]: example I think the game director for that I'm trying to think of the story there but he

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember when he took over it was either awkward enough time or win-win-aker I can't remember

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_00]: like they've had the same people working on this on these games like forever and they continue to find

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_00]: ways to reinvent and there's something just in the lifeblood of Nintendo that just keeps these things

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_00]: so fresh I think Mario wonders one of the best games of the year for sure and it's definitely the best

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_00]: family game of the year which you know it is a big deal yeah okay I had to pull this out um

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_01]: the uh I don't know how to say his first name Aji Awanuma the director of the yeah this is all

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_01]: like that yeah yeah I'm just kind of I pulled up his Wikipedia page real quickly legends

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_01]: all the Aquarine of Time was director slash dungeon design and since then has been director

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_01]: supervisor or producer that's pretty much every single Zelda so all the main lines from Nintendo right

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_01]: he's been a director I think or in that type of position producer it looks like here for

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Skyward Sword HD tears of the kingdom um and then it says producer or like supervisor for

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_01]: let's see the Capcom Zelda games and some of these sort of offshoots all the games but yeah

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_01]: to your point I I 100% agree like I think that game dev right it is it is it is it is a

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_01]: technical field and the technology is constantly evolving and we see lots of conversations about that

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_01]: but what I love about Nintendo is that they trust so much in the human in the human creativity

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_01]: behind video games right and we see this with the switch which by and large is considered to be

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_01]: like almost obsolete game hardware at this point right but within the bounds of that game hardware

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_01]: because they have such powerhouse experts when it comes to game design they're still able to produce

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_01]: the legends all the tears of the kingdom and Super Mario Bros Wonder and have them come out in

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_01]: same year you know what I mean and this reminds me a whole lot of 2017 when the legend is all the

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey came out in the same year and those were both hallmark games

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_01]: for those franchises and for Zelda or excuse me, Emperor Nintendo and for the switch and so if we want

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_01]: this is what I think it's like if we want to look at Nintendo and draw something from them it is that

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_01]: allowing employee retention does not diminish creativity necessarily of course you need new people

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and need new blood in there to shake things up but these people are creative people and if you give

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_01]: them time and resources they'll keep creating new things you know what I mean to me there's just

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_01]: like a level of trust I almost feel like with having these people on for so long that they're able

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_01]: to continually reinvent something like Mario and have it still be relevant and not feel like oh well

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_01]: they took a shot in the dark in its sucks you know what I mean but to keep those franchises alive

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah you get the obvious this talent that's been there for so long which like you're working on

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of making these games and making the next one and making the next one and making the next one

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_00]: are just getting better and better and better with you know obviously some inside exceptions you can't

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_00]: bat a thousand right but you know they're probably bat nine nine hundred which is kind of wild

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and they also have a financial model that is super successful like every first party Nintendo

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_00]: title is going to sell between like 10 and 30 million copies which is just insane right just in

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_00]: levels of success and it just works really well for them they just have this niche that kind

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_00]: of nobody else has nobody does like them and I don't think really anyone else can and that's the

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_00]: problem with like going too deep into it is that it cannot be replicated it's impossible you can't do

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_00]: what Nintendo does you cannot replicate it it's its own thing it can never like you can't adopt it

[00:56:45] [SPEAKER_00]: you can't like take still their model like whatever it is like you can't do it so yeah it's the magic

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_00]: of Nintendo for sure and you see it in spades and let's go yeah I totally agree and I feel like

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_01]: we're kind of repeating what we said in the impact of the industry category for tiers of the

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_01]: kingdom Nintendo's been around forever they have tons of money and they with that money they use it

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_01]: to give developers time right so what we learned about legends all the twos of the kingdom

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_01]: is that it was like feature complete playable like a year before it launched and they just were

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_01]: allow they had the time and resources to give that team a whole extra 12 months to just polish

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_01]: the game which that game mechanically probably needed it because that game mechanically is a marvel

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_01]: right but but imagine like that game just came out so beautifully right and what's the biggest

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_01]: game to me I think is that like you said Nintendo was kind of unreachable when it comes to this

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_01]: but it shouldn't be and I'm looking at you the Pokemon company right like if we're going to talk

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_01]: about like other companies that have like established history and they have lots of money

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_01]: that I just don't understand though like why is it that Nintendo is willing to give the legends

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_01]: all the twos of the kingdom another year when you have people who are in that weight class who are

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_01]: not and the Pokemon company definitely comes to mind right like how I mean listen I we did an episode

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_01]: on Pokemon um Scarlet and Violet I liked Pokemon Scarlet but I cannot ignore the criticisms that

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it really valid about how unpolished that game was compared to something like

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_01]: the legend as all the twos of the kingdom right or even something like I know they're different

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_01]: but like super Mario Bros. Wonder is beautifully polished so game is smooth as heck right like

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_01]: how come a company like the Pokemon company that has tons of money how come they don't have

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_01]: time to give resources for polish right on on some of their games um and I don't know

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to drag other other game companies maybe because they don't need to give a time

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_00]: because every time they put a game out it sells like fifty nine copies okay are you wrong no but

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I do feel like Nintendo's but they should and Nintendo's in a position to do that with some of

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_01]: their games shoot like even Pikmin 4 which I played this year which is probably the triple A

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_01]: underrated game of the year for me because I loved I think it's really wonderful but that game for

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_01]: smooth as heck polished as heck you know and it's a smaller franchise like no offense Pikmin and I love

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Pikmin 4 but are there how many Pikmin fans are there like especially if you're comparing it to Mario's

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_01]: all that or Pokemon sorry Pikmin fans you can shut off the episode now you have my permission

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I've insulted you right but and I think when I'm trying to get across it's just sort of my frustration

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_01]: with how is it that this game industry can make so so much money and how is it that these big big

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: companies these big game companies I'm specifically talking about them like what is happening

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_01]: with the disconnect between the amount of money you have like employee retention and allowing

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_01]: time for polishing games and of course I'm very much being an armchair dev in an armchair like financial

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: advisor right now and I recognize that but I would love more transparency like epic especially

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_01]: you run Fortnite like you run Fortnite you know you're making a ton of money why did 900 people

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_01]: have to go really like what exactly led to that I want that transparency because if not I'm just going

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_00]: to speculate about it I mean we know we pretty much know the the epic situation is that they over

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: rot they overreached when it came to acquisitions all almost all of which like didn't pan out

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_00]: in areas including like NFTs and VR and stuff that just dead NFTs man yeah I had forgot about this

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah so yeah I mean in other cases I think it's it's a question of risk like boulders gate 3 is

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: the other one was fan I don't know I never noticed as names fan week spent winky was

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: sorry we weren't Americans we could pronounce things in Spanish but not any other language

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: anyways point being they they took every dime and there it's funny actually I think I can say

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: this on a call today somebody called laryan and indie studio which laryan is no longer in

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: indie studio like I don't know how like they delineated these definitions but

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: boulders gate 3 had a 300 million dollar budget but that was not like external investment it was

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_00]: they literally bet the house on boulders gate yeah which is if the game does not do

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: phenomenally incredibly well like very very well the studio goes down it goes under

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: so it was that kind of project and so it's a question I think a lot of times of

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_00]: as a studio willing to put keep pumping the money in like keep hanging on and like

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not quite looking good enough we got to give it another year we got to give it another 18

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: months and that all is millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars and it's

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: a question of like putting good money after bad right at that point all right do we just like put it

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: out there and sort of recoup hope we recoup some cost and just call it a day or did we let it

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_00]: brew and at the risk of like well maybe it doesn't pan out at all anyways and then you've like

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: not another year of development so I think those are the things that happen but you know again that's

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: to your point that's me armchairing yeah i think you have a good point there though right i mean

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_01]: we in that's where there's definitely lack of transparency is like what exactly is the risk right

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and i get why studios don't want to tell the public that but but they are telling their investors

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_01]: that and the real shame right is that um what happens to their employees when it comes to dealing

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_01]: with risk and how they decide to deal with or not deal with risk right in in developing or excuse me

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: delaying games and i guess just game development broadly okay but coming back the the last final thoughts

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I have about super Mario Bros. Wonder in terms of impact on the industry is folks there's a

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_01]: opportunity here i believe indies make the weirdest 2d platformer of your dreams because there's

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_01]: a market for it man i know that super Mario Bros. Wonder doesn't like they they'll throw in a weird

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_01]: mechanic for one level and never touch it ever again but it pardon me is like like indie devs you

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: know I love you and if you have the weirdest mechanic idea for your 2d platformer it just might work

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_01]: like it just might be the hit that you want i would love for for more weird mechanics in 2d

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_01]: platformers and this isn't so much a criticism of super Mario Bros. Wonder i think it is a very good

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: thing that they just have like one off mechanics and all these levels with the wonder seeds but

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: like from super Mario Bros. Wonder i feel like there was the potential to create a dozen different

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: 2d Mario platformers that focused on just one of these weird mechanics and that's where i feel like

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: like the india arena the indie part of this industry could be like hey what is our one weird 2d

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: platforming mechanic that that kind of works we can make a game around that and we could sell it to

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: people like that i think people are really enjoying that part of this game and with that ladies and gentlemen

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: this has been another episode of the pre-order bonus podcast talking super Mario Bros. Wonder

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_00]: on switch a fantastic game if you have kids you must buy law by international gaming law united

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_00]: international gaming decree you must own this video game yes it's perfect family game it's fantastic

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: if you've been on the fats do hesitate yeah this is this is a big recommendation from two

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_01]: dad gamers right uh two thumbs up hundred from from jaken gamer from the pre-order bonus podcast

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_01]: if you have kids that are interested in gaming and you want to game to play with them this is it

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and play as Yoshi and just never die and that's perfect plays Yoshi and never die

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah leave us if you like the show you made it this far please leave us a review if you

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: have this listening for a while and you haven't left a review please just quickly go on there

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[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_00]: even if I meet at mass generic and jake at jake up underscore chippedip

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_00]: eight teen thank you so much for listening and have a great night