Senua's Saga: Hellblade II + Xbox Show Predictions

[00:00:00] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Pre-Order Bonus podcast. I'm

[00:00:14] one of your hosts Cameron Warren and I'm joined once again by the Pixel Professor Jacob Price.

[00:00:20] Jake, it's June 7th, 2024. Today is Summer Games Fest.

[00:00:27] Oh boy.

[00:00:28] Are you excited?

[00:00:29] You know, I am excited. I know Jeff Keely is kind of hot and cold with people,

[00:00:35] but he came out and he was like, hey everybody, we're mostly going to be talking about it's

[00:00:40] mostly going to be updates on games that have already been announced. There will be

[00:00:43] new things. And then he rattled off a list of a few games that wouldn't be shown.

[00:00:50] Some of them were some of these are these like big titles that we know aren't coming

[00:00:52] for years. So like Kingdom Hearts 4, he was like, folks, it's not going to show

[00:00:55] up here, stuff like that. And I'm like, you know what? Good on him for kind of

[00:00:59] setting expectations. And then listen, if they don't have a full gameplay trailer

[00:01:03] for The Elder Scrolls 6, then it's a failure in my mind. Like it's just, it's a waste of time.

[00:01:07] Then it's an F tier showcase, right?

[00:01:12] Yeah.

[00:01:13] He's doing he does a good job about managing the expectations on this stuff because

[00:01:17] the gamers are so stupid that you have to do that.

[00:01:22] And volatile. Just.

[00:01:24] And volatile because it's like, oh, he didn't show was a D tier because he didn't

[00:01:29] like announce.

[00:01:32] I don't even know.

[00:01:34] Like, I don't even follow on five.

[00:01:36] Follow. Yeah. Like a new Metal Gear or something, you know, Metal Gear Solid 6 made by.

[00:01:42] Yeah. Made by Hideyoko Jima.

[00:01:46] Yeah. Shadow Drop.

[00:01:47] Death Stranding 2.

[00:01:49] I mean, I know that he's gotten a lot of attention because, I mean,

[00:01:54] he managed to secure pretty much all the major Elden Ring marketing trailers

[00:01:58] and that kind of hype.

[00:02:00] But but yeah, I think I think him managing expectations is fine.

[00:02:05] The other sort of reason people are in a tizzy right now with Summer Games Fest

[00:02:09] is because, let's see, Kotaku reported on the price

[00:02:15] for running game trailers for Summer Game Fest.

[00:02:19] And I think they're supposed to be the same prices for the game awards.

[00:02:23] And they're crazy expensive.

[00:02:24] I think like one minute is of ad time is two hundred and fifty K.

[00:02:29] Two minutes is four hundred fifty K.

[00:02:31] Two and a half minutes is five hundred and fifty K.

[00:02:33] Those are outrageously big prices.

[00:02:36] I did see actually right before recording the show that

[00:02:40] Jeff Keighley sometimes will offer.

[00:02:42] They put it in quotes. I'm not sure why, but quote, free

[00:02:46] ad to specific smaller devs occasionally.

[00:02:52] So I don't know.

[00:02:53] But then I've been seeing a lot about this, but I've also seen that

[00:02:58] I think Gene Park posted that to run a full page ad in the New York Times

[00:03:03] for one day, it's like five hundred K.

[00:03:07] So yeah, those sound actually like pretty market,

[00:03:11] especially for the audience size that he gets, which I don't know

[00:03:14] about for Summer Games Fest, but for Game Awards,

[00:03:17] he has a significant audience size.

[00:03:19] So like that's that's very in line with

[00:03:22] just how much that stuff costs.

[00:03:24] Right. You can kind of compare against the Super Bowl, where. Right.

[00:03:27] I think 30 seconds is like five million.

[00:03:31] Yeah, I think you're right.

[00:03:33] So like something around the around that number.

[00:03:37] So with I mean, he gets a lot of viewers on it.

[00:03:40] You know? Yeah.

[00:03:41] So and at the end of the day, this is what we talk about a lot.

[00:03:44] But that's what this thing is.

[00:03:45] This is a money generating

[00:03:50] ad vehicle for video games.

[00:03:52] Right. It's and that's

[00:03:55] and frankly, I'm glad he does it and he does a pretty good job

[00:03:58] because nobody else is doing it.

[00:04:00] And he threw his dead.

[00:04:03] And it's exciting.

[00:04:04] I honestly, I've said this before, but sometimes

[00:04:09] game trailers and announcements and like the hype around that.

[00:04:11] Sometimes that's even more fun than the actual games themselves for me.

[00:04:14] I know that's weird to say, but sometimes the hype is fun

[00:04:17] and he does a good job of hype.

[00:04:18] I don't think we can fault him that.

[00:04:20] OK, I looked up some quick numbers.

[00:04:23] Let's see the Game Awards.

[00:04:23] Two thousand twenty three had a viewership of one hundred and eighteen million.

[00:04:28] So pretty big war.

[00:04:30] So that's so it's so then two and fifty K is actually pretty cheap

[00:04:34] for those kind of right.

[00:04:35] I mean, you just obviously you just need the budget to be able to spend

[00:04:38] that, which I think the big tizzy, I think that's the word I use.

[00:04:42] I'm going to go back to it is that smaller devs can't afford that.

[00:04:45] You're right. They can't.

[00:04:46] And this is

[00:04:49] I don't want to go to bat for any of the big companies.

[00:04:52] It's also the reality of indie marketing.

[00:04:54] It is a huge pain in the butt.

[00:04:56] I mean, it is incredibly difficult and something that I kind of believe now

[00:05:01] is that, you know, indie gaming is so accessible.

[00:05:05] And what I mean and not in terms of abilities,

[00:05:07] but in terms of people have access to the Internet

[00:05:09] and a lot of people have access to games.

[00:05:13] And the big problem is just finding the right people

[00:05:17] to see your game trailer so that they buy it. Right.

[00:05:22] Because the world is big enough, there are enough gamers out there

[00:05:25] that you make your niche indie game.

[00:05:27] And there are potentially 100000 people in on this planet

[00:05:31] who are interested in that game.

[00:05:33] It's just you are fighting the algorithm.

[00:05:35] You're fighting the crowd to get your game trailer

[00:05:38] in front of the eyeballs of the people who are likely to buy that game.

[00:05:41] And it's interesting.

[00:05:43] It's like, well, is the summer is the game awards the place to do it?

[00:05:46] Well, you get one hundred eighteen million.

[00:05:48] And for contrast, the Super Bowl in 2023 reached

[00:05:51] approximately 210 million viewers.

[00:05:54] So the Game Awards is netting half of what the Super Bowl is getting.

[00:05:58] That's wild. I didn't think it'd be that close.

[00:06:02] Yeah, no, that's that as well.

[00:06:04] I mean, and the honest truth is people don't tune in for indie games.

[00:06:10] That's just the reality.

[00:06:11] I hate this. And it's it's it's a really difficult reality to swallow,

[00:06:15] especially if you're somebody like me who loves indie games, is that indie games?

[00:06:19] I think percentage wise, if you if we had a pie chart

[00:06:22] of how many games are indie versus not in the market,

[00:06:25] they are by far the majority.

[00:06:27] But when it comes to pushing numbers, when it comes to making dollars,

[00:06:32] the pie chart is totally inverted.

[00:06:34] Indie games just simply don't generate the same revenue that triple A's do.

[00:06:40] No, they don't. And it's it's just a reality.

[00:06:43] It sucks. But it is you know, it's kind of like women's sports.

[00:06:49] It's just like it sucks because women's

[00:06:53] sports is great and super entertaining and there's incredible athletes.

[00:06:56] But people don't do that.

[00:06:58] They just they watch the other they watch.

[00:07:00] I actually think that's a and maybe that's like network deals and other things.

[00:07:04] Anyway, we don't need to get into that messier

[00:07:07] brave of you to bring it up, although I do see the fairness.

[00:07:10] And I just I've seen a lot of tweets because of Caitlin Clark.

[00:07:13] And so it was on my mind about NBA at WNBA.

[00:07:17] I am very close to kind of do the deep dive and OK, why?

[00:07:20] What is happening behind that?

[00:07:22] I'm super curious. But so a ton of people tune into March Madness

[00:07:27] because Caitlin Clark was like a really phenomenal

[00:07:31] had a really phenomenal performance.

[00:07:32] It was like really incredible

[00:07:35] women's basketball athlete and then went to the WNBA.

[00:07:37] And so now like the WNBA has got more eyeballs on it because they have the star.

[00:07:41] There's this like controversy

[00:07:43] because it's like, well, why is she getting all the attention?

[00:07:46] Like we've already been here.

[00:07:47] And it's like, well, that's just kind of how this works, right?

[00:07:49] Like the game is built off like people tune in to watch personalities, right?

[00:07:53] It's like watch the brawn and you know what I'm saying?

[00:07:56] And I actually think that the comparison here is extends to the fact that

[00:08:01] right sports entertainment like broadly thrives off of stars, right?

[00:08:07] It thrives off of having stars, whether they be actors, musicians, athletes.

[00:08:13] And in the case of games, it could be a specific game or a studio, right?

[00:08:17] We think about studios that have high reputations.

[00:08:19] We think about gaming outers that we always tune into and think about.

[00:08:24] Yeah, the entertainment, 100 percent entertainment thrives off of stars.

[00:08:28] Totally agree with that.

[00:08:30] If Hideo Kojima decided to make a.

[00:08:33] Pixel indie title, broke like with like

[00:08:37] Roke, like with a 10 person team, that game would be,

[00:08:41] you know, like a premier trailer at the Game Awards, right? Even though.

[00:08:46] Anyway, I mean, games are games are big and games are not big until they are big.

[00:08:51] Hollow Knight being the greatest example of like essentially

[00:08:54] that game has entered the.

[00:08:57] Mega hype stratosphere, where it is a marquee

[00:09:02] title to be shown at one of these events.

[00:09:05] And that brings us into this section of the show, which we're going to do

[00:09:08] before we do our breakdown of Hellblade 2.

[00:09:13] We are we're actually on the day of Summer Games Fest.

[00:09:15] So by the time this goes live,

[00:09:17] Summer Games Fest will already be live.

[00:09:20] But just for fun.

[00:09:23] Jake, any quick predictions?

[00:09:25] We'll do some predictions for Xbox, which you guys can hear before the show on Sunday.

[00:09:28] But you will miss these won't get up live before the actual Summer Games Fest show.

[00:09:33] But Jake, any quick predictions for Summer Games Fest that have been on your mind? OK.

[00:09:39] I'm getting really I've got one major prediction.

[00:09:42] And I think that Skate 4.

[00:09:47] Is going to get at minimum a release window,

[00:09:50] but I think it might get a release date.

[00:09:53] Whoa, I think that release date is going to be like early 2025.

[00:10:00] But Skate 4.

[00:10:02] So I don't think a lot of our listeners maybe know this or only the people who know

[00:10:06] the deep lore, but I'm a huge fan of skating games, huge fan of skating games.

[00:10:11] I grew up skating, played a lot of Tony Hawk Pro Skater.

[00:10:14] But as soon as Skate came out, I converted.

[00:10:18] I left Tony Hawk behind and I played the skate games religiously for a long time.

[00:10:23] And I have been just jumping out of the bit

[00:10:27] whenever there's a tiny bit of news about Skate 4, which I think they're just calling Skate.

[00:10:32] But it's going to be a live service game,

[00:10:34] which I think that can make work in a really cool way.

[00:10:37] So I'm being optimistic.

[00:10:40] But they have been doing a ton of alpha play testing

[00:10:43] with just like watered down assets, meaning that they're really just testing gameplay.

[00:10:47] There's not like a whole lot of the art in there.

[00:10:51] Everything's like polygons.

[00:10:52] But, dude, they said I can't remember the name of the studio making it, but

[00:10:59] they said that they're going to be showing something.

[00:11:01] And I think that game is much further along than we think.

[00:11:05] So my prediction is that if we don't at minimum get a release window

[00:11:08] or a release release window, we get a release date and it's early 2025.

[00:11:15] Yeah, EA should have a pretty good presence here.

[00:11:17] I like that one.

[00:11:19] That would be dope. Skate 4.

[00:11:20] That's cool.

[00:11:24] EA should have a pretty big presence here.

[00:11:25] I don't have like a ton for Summer Game Pass.

[00:11:28] I'm honestly not expecting much, to be honest.

[00:11:31] I think I have really tempered expectations for the show,

[00:11:34] but I always enjoy watching it and it's like fun to kind of see what's coming.

[00:11:38] I think if I had to.

[00:11:40] So the rumors that are already out there is that we're going to get

[00:11:43] some significant stuff for Dragon Age.

[00:11:46] Dreadwolf, which is now called Dragon Age, Veilheart.

[00:11:50] Veilguard. Change the name.

[00:11:52] Veilshard. Veilheart. Veilshard.

[00:11:54] OK. Dreadwolf was a cooler name, but it's a cool name.

[00:12:01] I'm not sure who made that decision, but.

[00:12:05] So we should see that.

[00:12:08] I think we will see

[00:12:11] a gameplay trailer and potentially an early access

[00:12:15] release date for Light No Fire. Oh, please, dude.

[00:12:19] I love that.

[00:12:21] I think that actually makes a lot of sense, to be honest.

[00:12:26] Dude, yeah, because we're halfway through the year, right?

[00:12:28] And we got the full announcement at the Game Awards.

[00:12:32] It seems like Jeff and what's his name have like a good relationship.

[00:12:35] Sean Murray. We got to be getting close, right?

[00:12:38] I you know what?

[00:12:39] Cameron, I talked about this after

[00:12:42] when we did our summer games kind of game of the year, whatever episode.

[00:12:47] Yeah, they Sean Murray said that that game had started production five years ago,

[00:12:51] which means not full production, but starts like pre production

[00:12:55] five years ago, Light No Fire.

[00:12:56] And Cameron, I think we both predicted or at least one of us

[00:13:00] predicted in our predictions episode for 2024 that that game was going

[00:13:03] to enter early access in this year.

[00:13:04] And Cameron, I think you're right.

[00:13:05] I think Summer Games Fest is the place to be like

[00:13:09] early access or beta or something coming fall 2024.

[00:13:16] Yeah. And then the other thing, this is sort of a like a light prediction.

[00:13:22] But I do think we get some relatively thick

[00:13:25] and juicy from PlayStation Studios, potentially.

[00:13:30] And I say that with a massive grain of salt because I have to remember

[00:13:35] I work for PlayStation Studios.

[00:13:36] All right. Technically.

[00:13:39] But I have no knowledge of anything, just to be clear.

[00:13:42] Literally no knowledge of anything.

[00:13:44] I have no access to any docs or anything.

[00:13:46] Yeah, just just for listeners.

[00:13:47] No, Cameron doesn't know squat about what's happening at Sony.

[00:13:50] I've tried. He does.

[00:13:52] If I did, Jake would already.

[00:13:54] Cameron doesn't know anything.

[00:13:58] Speaking of which, Final Shape is out, Jake,

[00:14:01] and it's pretty dope.

[00:14:04] I got to say, it's one of the best expansions.

[00:14:08] And I mean, I'm biased, obviously. But yeah, if you're lapsed.

[00:14:11] So this is Cameron didn't pay me to say this, but if you're lapsed,

[00:14:14] Destiny 2 player, I think you got to come back for the finale.

[00:14:19] I think you got to.

[00:14:20] I played about half of the campaign and.

[00:14:24] Yeah, at least do a good send off.

[00:14:26] It's solid. It's a campaign is really solid so far.

[00:14:33] Sorry. Quick side there.

[00:14:33] Yeah, that's pretty much my only produce for Summer Game Fest.

[00:14:37] Jake, what's like the big titles coming in fall

[00:14:40] that are for sure that we know about that are not Ubisoft games?

[00:14:43] Because we're obviously getting Assassin's Creed.

[00:14:46] We're getting outlaws.

[00:14:47] So those will both be like Ubisoft forward stuff, right?

[00:14:51] What else is coming fall?

[00:14:52] So Dragon Age, that was the other one I already mentioned.

[00:14:55] So some big gameplay walkthrough slash trailer

[00:14:59] for a fall game, right?

[00:15:01] But what are those?

[00:15:02] Dude, that aren't Xbox, that aren't Ubisoft.

[00:15:10] Dude, I don't know.

[00:15:11] I mean, Astro Bot, right?

[00:15:12] I mean that.

[00:15:14] OK, so that is gearing up to be

[00:15:18] PlayStation's big game this fall, which frankly,

[00:15:22] I'm kind of OK with because that trailer at the end of the state of play,

[00:15:26] dude, it got me way hyped.

[00:15:27] I think that game looks on par with Super Mario Odyssey, like

[00:15:32] just just from what they showed off there.

[00:15:35] But let's see you.

[00:15:37] I had answers to that question and then you said not Ubisoft.

[00:15:40] And I now I don't know, man.

[00:15:43] I'm kind of racking my brain.

[00:15:45] What is coming out in fall

[00:15:48] 2024? And let's see.

[00:15:51] We Xbox, I think on Sunday is going to give us a lot of release dates

[00:15:55] for games that we know are coming.

[00:15:57] So I think like about

[00:16:00] Microsoft lights in 2024.

[00:16:02] Sorry, I'm kind of blending the two predictions, although

[00:16:07] just to squeeze it in there, I do think if there's a shadow drop

[00:16:11] for Xbox, I think it's Microsoft flights in 2024 or replaced.

[00:16:17] I think that's one of those two.

[00:16:18] Oh, I like that.

[00:16:21] But yeah, let's see.

[00:16:21] Stalker 2 is another big one that's coming.

[00:16:25] The Silent Hill 2 remake

[00:16:28] is coming.

[00:16:30] And now I have a list pulled up and I am blinking

[00:16:35] on like big major games coming.

[00:16:37] See that? See, that's what's super interesting to me, because like

[00:16:40] if he said it's stuff that we already know about

[00:16:43] and all the big stuff is basically Xbox or Sony or

[00:16:48] Xbox or Ubisoft.

[00:16:51] So I'm guessing there's going to have to be some crossover.

[00:16:55] Like Xbox is what is going to have to have given

[00:16:59] Keely something like meaty to show.

[00:17:03] If it's stuff that's like already announced so that he has

[00:17:06] some like thicker gameplay stuff that he can show for fall games.

[00:17:10] Yeah, yeah, I mean.

[00:17:13] Let's see.

[00:17:14] I don't know, maybe maybe doom, but why wouldn't you save that

[00:17:17] for the Xbox show?

[00:17:18] I know. I think if what would Xbox give summer games fast, right?

[00:17:23] I think that's the question that that is at the root of what you're saying.

[00:17:27] Maybe replaced, right?

[00:17:29] Maybe replaced because that is technically third party.

[00:17:36] They don't get silk song because Xbox will.

[00:17:38] Yeah, folks, I don't think silk song is showing up a summer games fest.

[00:17:42] But I do think that there is a chance.

[00:17:44] Cameron, you're more optimistic than I am about silk song showing up.

[00:17:49] Right. All right.

[00:17:50] Well, I think it's sort of a big black box.

[00:17:53] I guess we'll see. So let's move into.

[00:17:55] OK, so these are actual predictions that people will hear before the Xbox show,

[00:17:59] hopefully on Sunday, because we'll get this episode up.

[00:18:02] Xbox predictions.

[00:18:04] Let's start off with the big one.

[00:18:06] It's rumored that there's going to be a shadow drop.

[00:18:08] Jake, you just said you think it's flight sim or replaced.

[00:18:15] I think I'm leaning towards.

[00:18:17] I like flights and I'm leaning towards.

[00:18:18] We don't have a release date on that.

[00:18:19] We don't. We know that it's supposed to come.

[00:18:21] Well, it's titled 2024, right?

[00:18:24] It's supposed to come this year.

[00:18:25] Microsoft flights and I think is one of those games that does fall into the camp

[00:18:29] of like doesn't need a whole lot of marketing.

[00:18:32] It's kind of a niche title as it is.

[00:18:34] We know that it's it's kind of a weird simulation game because

[00:18:40] I actually know several people who own an Xbox specifically to play

[00:18:44] Microsoft Flight Sim because they don't feel like they're playing a game.

[00:18:48] They want it for the real simulator aspect of it.

[00:18:50] Anyway, I don't think this is a game that Xbox has a ton of poor

[00:18:53] ton of marketing into just because of the weird state of what the game is.

[00:18:58] And Microsoft flights in 2024 is looking to be a little more

[00:19:02] like almost mission based in the different things that you can do.

[00:19:06] So I do think that it will have it'll make a pretty big splash.

[00:19:11] But yeah, I think it's a safe shadow drop.

[00:19:14] Just for Microsoft.

[00:19:16] I think that's the right one.

[00:19:17] I think that's the right pick for the shadow drop, for sure.

[00:19:21] I can't see it being anything else.

[00:19:23] It's not going to be silk song.

[00:19:24] It's not going to be I don't.

[00:19:26] I think it's replace needs to be shown again.

[00:19:29] It's practically forgotten about at this point.

[00:19:31] I feel like we're almost repeating last year exactly with replaced,

[00:19:35] which is it was shown at the June showcase.

[00:19:39] And we all got hyped about it again because that game looks just phenomenal.

[00:19:43] But as we all know at this point, too,

[00:19:45] that the game's development has drastically slowed

[00:19:48] and become more complicated because of the conflict in Ukraine

[00:19:51] and the Russian invasion, whatever.

[00:19:53] And I don't know, that game has been postponed.

[00:19:56] I feel like what, two plus years at this point.

[00:19:59] But I agree with you, Cameron.

[00:20:01] People need to be reminded about it.

[00:20:03] And then it needs to come out.

[00:20:04] And so I think getting a release date is a little more likely than a shadow drop.

[00:20:09] But that's the only other game I could think of that could fit that rumor.

[00:20:14] Yeah, I think that's the right pick.

[00:20:18] Some big predictions for me for Xbox show.

[00:20:22] I think we get gear six something.

[00:20:27] Probably teaser.

[00:20:29] I think it's just, hey, coalition's working on gear six.

[00:20:32] It's an unreal engine five.

[00:20:35] Maybe at the most like a cinematic that gives a hint as to like the timeline.

[00:20:39] Yeah. If it's like moving things forward, if it's like more of a prequel or whatever.

[00:20:47] I also think so we already know doom is going to be there.

[00:20:51] Kind of a shame. Kind of a shame that got leaked because that would have been a

[00:20:55] dope title to just see.

[00:20:59] Yeah, leaks. Leaks suck. Yeah.

[00:21:03] Yeah. So we already know Doom is going to be there.

[00:21:04] Definitely Indiana Jones.

[00:21:07] Definitely avowed.

[00:21:10] Stalker two, I think is probably a definite right.

[00:21:16] I mean, they have 30 games apparently that they're showing.

[00:21:19] Wait, really? I did not see that number.

[00:21:23] Yeah. Just to caveat that I bet you more than anything that

[00:21:28] we are 31st party games now, 30 games total.

[00:21:32] No, no, just part of that is going to be an idea.

[00:21:34] Xbox or game coming to game past day one montage. Right.

[00:21:39] That will definitely be part of that.

[00:21:40] But I mean, 30 is still like a freaking large number.

[00:21:43] And I think just to kind of mimic what you said,

[00:21:46] I think pretty much everything we saw the Xbox showcase for this year

[00:21:50] early this year was that February where we saw a bunch of games

[00:21:54] are supposed to come out in 2024.

[00:21:55] We're going to get narrowed down, released dates or windows for all of those titles.

[00:22:00] I think Xbox is you.

[00:22:02] I think so. I think about I think Indiana Jones is the only one

[00:22:06] that I'm worried about getting delayed out of 2025.

[00:22:10] Avowed for sure.

[00:22:11] I doubt it's getting a release date like I'm fairly confident in saying that.

[00:22:14] I would be really shocked if we did.

[00:22:15] That's coming in the fall.

[00:22:16] Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.

[00:22:18] I'm actually going to just pick a date, folks.

[00:22:21] Let's just let's just get into this September.

[00:22:25] I would say honestly, like September 13th or like September 6th, maybe even.

[00:22:33] You heard it here first, September 6th, September 6th.

[00:22:36] Oh, that'd be juicy, man.

[00:22:38] If you get that right, I'll buy you lunch.

[00:22:41] Finger grass, folks.

[00:22:45] Yeah, about Indiana Jones.

[00:22:47] Do we get anything?

[00:22:50] From. Fable South of Midnight Clockwork Revolution,

[00:22:55] Clockwork Revolution is high on my list.

[00:22:58] I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more.

[00:23:01] They're starting to tease, I feel like a little bit more

[00:23:05] on social media about Clockwork Revolution South of Midnight.

[00:23:08] I would love to see more.

[00:23:11] There have been a lot of rumors that that game is actually really far

[00:23:14] into development, and I just don't know.

[00:23:17] I have my doubts there, but I think Clockwork Revolution

[00:23:20] and then actually think this game that we barely heard about Contraband.

[00:23:24] I think we're going to get a lot more info on that one

[00:23:26] that was first announced.

[00:23:27] Is that another hero shooter?

[00:23:31] Does anybody even know what Contraband is?

[00:23:34] It was just like it had some weird teaser trailer.

[00:23:37] Codren is like the heist adventure game, right?

[00:23:42] I'm confusing it with the thing they just showed at the PlayStation,

[00:23:45] which is another hero shooter.

[00:23:46] Concord, yes. Oh my gosh.

[00:23:48] Oh, you're right. OK, so I pulled up the contraband.

[00:23:50] It's a co-op smugglers paradise.

[00:23:54] Yeah, so I think that we're going to get info on this game.

[00:23:57] I think.

[00:23:59] Well, yeah, South of Midnight, not super confident on that one.

[00:24:02] Clockwork Revolution, I think we're going to get a lot more

[00:24:04] on that info on that one as well.

[00:24:06] Listen, if Xbox plays their cards right,

[00:24:09] they're going to finally get their hype train and release dates rolling.

[00:24:13] The stuff that they've been trying to do for the past two years, you know.

[00:24:17] They got enough titles sitting there.

[00:24:19] We just need the updates.

[00:24:22] I'm guessing Clockwork Revolution doesn't come out till next year.

[00:24:24] I agree.

[00:24:25] Wasteland 3 came out in 2020 and they had two DLCs

[00:24:30] and then in Excel, I think ramped up after that.

[00:24:33] It's now mid 2024.

[00:24:36] I could see an early 2025 release date for Clockwork Revolution.

[00:24:40] I mean, I could see that.

[00:24:41] I agree with you. I think that's 2025.

[00:24:43] I think we're probably going to get that information at the showcase.

[00:24:47] It's like coming.

[00:24:48] Fable, I think, is further away than we think.

[00:24:50] Unfortunately, I think that's maybe even 2026 TBH.

[00:24:57] So I don't even know if we see that at all, to be honest.

[00:24:59] Cameron, can I ask you about

[00:25:02] is Rare still making Everwild?

[00:25:07] Everwild is dead, I think, in my view.

[00:25:10] Do you think they just stopped or complete?

[00:25:14] Like, I know it got massive overhaul.

[00:25:19] Basically, it was weird because Everwild comes from like this period

[00:25:23] in Xbox history after a big acquisition.

[00:25:26] There's a lot of their flush with cash from investment during the pandemic.

[00:25:30] And they kind of just like greenlit.

[00:25:32] I feel like something that Rare was prototyping

[00:25:35] just so they can show off that Xbox has games.

[00:25:38] And then since then.

[00:25:41] Squat, so yeah, I'm not.

[00:25:46] I'm also not optimistic.

[00:25:49] No, I just I think that they couldn't figure out what the game actually was.

[00:25:53] I think they had an interesting idea and some like cool art assets,

[00:25:56] but they probably just couldn't find the fun.

[00:25:58] That's my guess. They just couldn't do it.

[00:26:00] And they just canned it.

[00:26:04] Let's see here.

[00:26:04] Other predictions and stuffs.

[00:26:08] Hollow Knight, Silksong trailer release date.

[00:26:11] They want a game pass.

[00:26:13] I'm calling it right now. This is coming.

[00:26:15] This is this is ace in the hole Xbox.

[00:26:17] Do you think Xbox would close the show with that?

[00:26:20] Do you think they would close the show with so soft?

[00:26:23] I honestly think it's big enough that you absolutely could if you wanted to.

[00:26:28] But does that take away from like your first part?

[00:26:31] I don't know. Does that matter?

[00:26:32] I don't know.

[00:26:33] Xbox is weird sometimes.

[00:26:34] I don't know. Yeah.

[00:26:36] Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it takes.

[00:26:37] Like if it's not at the Xbox show,

[00:26:39] if Hollow Knight, Silksong is not at the Xbox show or if it gives another trailer

[00:26:44] with no release date, that isn't that's just wild.

[00:26:47] That's wild. That's wild to me.

[00:26:50] Because if I'm Team Cherry, just I'm just just don't show anything.

[00:26:56] You don't need to show anything.

[00:26:57] You don't need to put time and effort into creating a trailer.

[00:27:02] Like just finish.

[00:27:03] I would just work on finishing the game

[00:27:05] and then just drop it sometime like in the fall.

[00:27:08] But if I'm like, OK, I got one more hype cycle here where Xbox is reaching out

[00:27:14] and we're going to release it, we're finally ready to release it

[00:27:16] and it's going to come in October.

[00:27:19] I don't know. That's my thinking.

[00:27:21] I mean, I think they to a degree know that.

[00:27:23] I think they know that they don't need to do anything.

[00:27:26] I also feel immense sympathy towards that dev team because.

[00:27:30] It's it's a shame that every single showcases

[00:27:34] like chat feed is just Silksong, Silksong.

[00:27:38] Like it's become so memeified in the gaming culture

[00:27:43] that I feel like it's a lose lose scenario for them kind of no matter what they do.

[00:27:47] And I imagine they're feeling an immense amount of pressure from Xbox.

[00:27:53] Who Team Stray slided last year by promising to come up by the end of 2023

[00:27:58] and folks, we are halfway through 2024 and we haven't heard a peep about it.

[00:28:03] So I can only imagine that the the devs at Team Cherry probably go to therapy

[00:28:08] 40 hours a week and work on the game 20 hours a week at this point.

[00:28:15] They probably they probably should.

[00:28:18] All right. Last South of midnight.

[00:28:20] Oh, sorry. We're going to say South of midnight.

[00:28:21] And then I got one last. No, South of midnight.

[00:28:24] To your point, I also have heard the same thing that rumor

[00:28:27] I could easily see a gameplay trailer and release window here.

[00:28:32] Since they

[00:28:35] Clockwork Revolution.

[00:28:37] That's more iffy to me, I think you either see nothing

[00:28:41] or you get another trailer in a release window.

[00:28:44] You probably see nothing fable.

[00:28:46] I definitely think we see nothing.

[00:28:47] I think no shot away.

[00:28:49] I think that game looks like really technically

[00:28:53] like, I feel like that game is going to be tough to develop.

[00:28:56] I mean, all games are tough to develop, but that game,

[00:28:58] especially just from that one initial look we got, just looks like it's going to be

[00:29:02] just rough, super rough.

[00:29:05] Yeah. And it's crazy because from that trailer, there was, from what I understand,

[00:29:09] moments of gameplay footage and it looked phenomenal.

[00:29:13] And we're going to talk about technical things when we talk about Hellblade 2 shortly.

[00:29:18] But I agree with you.

[00:29:19] I think that game is way, way far out.

[00:29:23] I would say I think 2026 is a good bet on that one for sure.

[00:29:28] Really not confident about it.

[00:29:29] And then this last one, there's been a whiplash of rumors about it.

[00:29:33] And this is what I want to ask you.

[00:29:34] And then that's all I've kind of got to talk about the Xbox showcase.

[00:29:37] Yep.

[00:29:38] Perfect Dark.

[00:29:41] So there were rumors that came out maybe two months ago that Perfect Dark

[00:29:45] was in development.

[00:29:46] Hell, they've got Crystal Dynamics, I think, right?

[00:29:49] Xbox is contracted to assist with the initiatives development there.

[00:29:56] But the whiplash comes, I feel like a few days after those rumors came out,

[00:30:00] there are other rumors that were just total 180.

[00:30:03] It was no, Perfect Dark is fine and we're going to see it at the Xbox

[00:30:06] showcase.

[00:30:08] And I don't know who to believe, Cameron.

[00:30:12] Do you?

[00:30:13] I don't know who to believe, Cameron.

[00:30:15] Do you believe either of those sides to that story?

[00:30:19] I think when people say it's development hell,

[00:30:22] that that could literally just be any game, right?

[00:30:27] Because I think at a certain point, any triple A, especially triple A,

[00:30:31] but even indie, probably even indie too, mostly indie.

[00:30:36] Every game is going to be in development hell at some point.

[00:30:38] And then things like come together at the very end, right?

[00:30:41] So it's like, it's hard to say.

[00:30:43] I don't know.

[00:30:46] It's hard to say, like, what does that even mean?

[00:30:49] So I would lean towards.

[00:30:53] We see something.

[00:30:54] OK, yeah, I think we will.

[00:30:56] So I like this is interesting what you're saying about development hell.

[00:30:59] Do you think that the term development hell has become such like a click

[00:31:04] baby buzzword that it's just too vague to mean anything anymore?

[00:31:08] Yeah, because I think you could say Boulder's Gate 3 was in development hell

[00:31:12] because because Sven tweeted that thing.

[00:31:16] It's like, hey, we crunched on this.

[00:31:18] If I like it, what?

[00:31:20] But it wasn't as bad as other games.

[00:31:22] Right.

[00:31:24] So is crunch development hell, though, or is that like a bunch of people

[00:31:28] who are like who actually get excited and then they just really grind

[00:31:32] on something because they're passionate about it?

[00:31:35] There's a difference.

[00:31:36] There's a difference.

[00:31:37] Like, it's hell when you hate the work.

[00:31:40] It's exciting and like you're driven like when you're kind of passionate.

[00:31:44] It's still hard, obviously, and it's still like a crazy grind.

[00:31:48] But those are kind of two different things.

[00:31:51] But man, it is a like really almost invisible line between those

[00:31:56] and it's hard to tell when was this like corporate mandate

[00:32:01] driven slave driving finish the game?

[00:32:04] And when was it like, hey, as a collective unit, we are proud

[00:32:07] of this thing and we're going hard to finish it.

[00:32:09] Right.

[00:32:11] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:32:12] I just I think that's an interesting point.

[00:32:15] Development hell might get lost in translation when it goes

[00:32:19] from an employee who's saying, oh, we're in development hell right now

[00:32:23] versus when it gets published in an article saying, hey,

[00:32:26] the studio is currently experiencing development hell in this game.

[00:32:29] Everybody sucks.

[00:32:30] We all hate it.

[00:32:31] Life is over.

[00:32:32] That does remind me that maybe the last bit of news, we're already

[00:32:35] spending a lot of time before we get in hell blade two.

[00:32:38] But did you see the Jason Schreier article on suicide squad

[00:32:42] kill the Justice League?

[00:32:44] Uh, I did not, but I'm guessing I could summarize it actually.

[00:32:50] OK, I read it.

[00:32:51] We're doing a quick pop quiz.

[00:32:53] Let's see how well Cameron does.

[00:32:56] What did it say?

[00:32:57] What do you think it said?

[00:33:00] I think that they started with a cool idea for a suicide squad project.

[00:33:07] They worked on it and everyone was excited about it, but then

[00:33:12] they had pressure to morph it into a more of a revenue, like

[00:33:18] a better a live service title so that they could take advantage

[00:33:22] of live service revenue and add micro transactions of the game.

[00:33:25] And that created scope creep, which then made it easier

[00:33:30] to create scope creep, which then pushed the development team

[00:33:33] and the budget super high and the project.

[00:33:35] OK, this is pretty good.

[00:33:37] That is, I would say 60 percent of what the Jason Schreier

[00:33:41] investigation revealed.

[00:33:45] It sounds like, according to his article, that the creative

[00:33:48] director, what's his name?

[00:33:51] Sefton Sultan.

[00:33:53] I don't know.

[00:33:54] Sounds like the creative director was very difficult to work

[00:33:57] with and was constantly scope problems.

[00:34:00] There was one moment where they pushed to have vehicles

[00:34:04] to be a really big part of the game, which everybody grumbled

[00:34:09] about.

[00:34:10] And it looks like Warner Bros is posting a two hundred

[00:34:15] million dollar loss on Suicide Squad, which is a big number.

[00:34:22] So, folks, brace yourselves for more news related to layoffs.

[00:34:27] Massively officer rocks.

[00:34:30] That is a big, big, big, big number.

[00:34:33] If you work at Rocksteady, look around.

[00:34:36] Yeah, our hearts go out to you.

[00:34:38] That is you're in trouble and it wasn't it wasn't your fault.

[00:34:42] It wasn't. Yeah.

[00:34:43] According to reading this article, it sounds like I mean

[00:34:47] people up above taking an idea, trying to make a live

[00:34:49] service, trying to turn it into I think Jason Schreier

[00:34:52] puts in here that yeah, here it is.

[00:34:53] OK.

[00:34:55] Despite the internal concerns among frontline workers,

[00:34:58] executives from Warner Bros kept reviewing demonstrations

[00:35:01] of the game and sending laudatory feedback, praising

[00:35:03] the graphics and saying that they expected Suicide Squad

[00:35:05] to become a billion dollar franchise.

[00:35:08] Nice.

[00:35:11] I mean, what else would you say?

[00:35:15] This game sucks.

[00:35:16] I mean, I don't think they have most corporate cultures

[00:35:19] or that's not going to happen.

[00:35:21] They're not going to say that it sucks, but to say like

[00:35:24] hey, this is going to be a billion dollar franchise

[00:35:27] and your workers are like we got serious problems.

[00:35:30] But if the creative director is hard to work with

[00:35:33] and that tells you like that person is not open to

[00:35:36] feedback.

[00:35:37] Yeah.

[00:35:38] Yeah.

[00:35:39] And that means, you know, by the way, no one wanted

[00:35:46] to Suicide Squad.

[00:35:49] Cameron has been nobody wanted this.

[00:35:51] We wanted this.

[00:35:52] We wanted either more Batman or the Justice League.

[00:35:56] Nobody wanted Suicide Squad.

[00:35:58] OK, some people wanted the Suicide Squad,

[00:36:01] a tiny little audience.

[00:36:03] I'm getting visions, memories of past conversations

[00:36:06] we had about this.

[00:36:07] Folks, if you're new to the show, you're listening

[00:36:10] to this episode, Cameron for years has been saying

[00:36:13] this and it has been every time he says it,

[00:36:16] the laugh that I give hurts a little more because

[00:36:19] of the reality that sets in.

[00:36:21] Right.

[00:36:22] Especially now we're like, OK, Rock City is kind

[00:36:24] of screwed and Warner Bros is posting this huge loss.

[00:36:27] And I'm going to say something that I said probably

[00:36:30] two years ago about this.

[00:36:31] Aren't we aren't we late on a Suicide Squad game

[00:36:35] like Birds of Prey?

[00:36:37] Like that's like when people were excited ish

[00:36:40] about Suicide Squad.

[00:36:41] I think there's a Suicide Squad movie.

[00:36:43] Is that right?

[00:36:44] We're not even not only are we late, there was

[00:36:46] never an appointment.

[00:36:47] No, like there wasn't.

[00:36:50] I'm like there maybe was an appointment.

[00:36:52] Cameron's like, no, there is no appointment.

[00:36:54] There was no.

[00:36:55] I don't even think that movie that was there

[00:36:58] was a movie, right?

[00:36:59] Like there's two movies.

[00:37:01] Oh, the James Gunn movie, which I think

[00:37:05] actually did pretty well.

[00:37:06] You're telling me there was another movie.

[00:37:09] Yeah, James Gunn made a Suicide Squad.

[00:37:10] OK, but was there another one besides that one?

[00:37:13] No, there is just the one before that with like

[00:37:16] Deadshot.

[00:37:17] And then there's the Birds of Prey, which was like

[00:37:22] the follow on ish to that one with Margot Robbie.

[00:37:25] Just throwing my hands in the air.

[00:37:26] The Birds of Prey is the only one that I do.

[00:37:28] Anyway, yeah, Suicide Squad.

[00:37:31] That sucks.

[00:37:32] Xbox Show.

[00:37:33] I think we said we gave all our predictions

[00:37:35] and thoughts.

[00:37:36] I don't.

[00:37:37] I think we're going to see some new stuff.

[00:37:39] I wouldn't expect anything wild and crazy.

[00:37:42] We're going to get a lot of Game Pass

[00:37:44] Activision drops.

[00:37:45] And then there'll be a ton of times when I'm black ops

[00:37:48] six, which I'll tune out.

[00:37:51] You know, it makes sense like there's some bajillion

[00:37:54] people who play Call of Duty.

[00:37:55] So you got to do it.

[00:37:57] Yeah.

[00:37:58] And with that, let's get into it, Jake.

[00:38:05] Talking Hellblade to Senua's.

[00:38:09] Sacrifice.

[00:38:10] Wait, is it Saga or Sacrifice?

[00:38:12] I always mix the two.

[00:38:13] It's Saga.

[00:38:14] Senua's Sacrifice.

[00:38:15] It's Saga.

[00:38:16] Senua's Saga came out first party Xbox game.

[00:38:21] Been looking forward to this one for a long time.

[00:38:24] It's been a premiere.

[00:38:25] Speaking of Xbox shows, this has been a premier

[00:38:29] Xbox show title for like five years, six years, right?

[00:38:35] And it's finally out.

[00:38:36] Jake and I both played it.

[00:38:37] How are we going to break it down?

[00:38:39] All right.

[00:38:40] We will be talking about Hellblade to wait,

[00:38:43] Senua's Saga, Hellblade to.

[00:38:44] Hellblade to is what we're going to call it the rest of this

[00:38:47] episode.

[00:38:48] We'll be talking about it in four categories,

[00:38:51] and this is going to change.

[00:38:52] So stay tuned for future episodes.

[00:38:55] That's just a little teaser.

[00:38:56] But the first category will be talking about the narrative.

[00:38:58] So here we're talking about themes.

[00:39:00] We're talking about essentially how the video game

[00:39:03] Hellblade to utilize its you know, it's a unique

[00:39:07] artistic medium as a video game to tell a story.

[00:39:10] Next, we'll be talking about the mechanics.

[00:39:12] So this is I mean, the nitty gritty, how you're

[00:39:15] interacting with the game.

[00:39:16] I think part of the conversation today will be like

[00:39:19] the level of interaction that is actually present in

[00:39:22] the Hellblade to which has been a huge talking point

[00:39:25] about this game since it released.

[00:39:26] Third, we'll be talking about the gameplay loop.

[00:39:28] So this is essentially what keeps you engaged.

[00:39:31] What are the patterns and how they interact and are

[00:39:34] linked as you progress through the game?

[00:39:36] And then finally impact on the industry.

[00:39:38] So here we're going to be talking about, OK, what kind

[00:39:41] of notes are people taking about this game?

[00:39:43] How did people react?

[00:39:44] Do we think we'll be talking about this game in the

[00:39:46] future? Why or why not?

[00:39:48] So first up narrative of Hellblade to help to the

[00:39:58] narrative.

[00:39:59] We have Senua who at the end of the last game,

[00:40:04] if I remember correctly, Jake killed a god.

[00:40:07] Oh, yeah.

[00:40:08] And what it seemed like she had finally conquered her

[00:40:17] psychological and literal demons, although it's not

[00:40:22] really clear if everything that happened in the first

[00:40:26] game was actually just in her head or actually

[00:40:29] happened in a fantastical world.

[00:40:31] Maybe that doesn't matter.

[00:40:35] That's kind of part of the point.

[00:40:36] But Game 2 starts off where she sort of it felt

[00:40:42] like Game 1 was sort of the end and like they

[00:40:45] resolved a lot.

[00:40:46] But then it looks like in Game 2 that it's like,

[00:40:49] no, actually she still got demons to fight and she

[00:40:51] still got like, help me out Jake.

[00:40:56] She gets herself on a slave ship going to Iceland

[00:41:01] so that she can find essentially like the slave

[00:41:06] owner who was responsible for sending the people

[00:41:13] to kill her husband.

[00:41:14] Is that right?

[00:41:15] Or am I mixing two things?

[00:41:16] No, you're right.

[00:41:17] So we're kind of going into probably what's my

[00:41:20] biggest criticism of the narrative of the game,

[00:41:22] which just to echo what Cameron says,

[00:41:24] Hellblade 1 kind of had a pretty neat and tidy

[00:41:29] resolution.

[00:41:30] And so to have a sequel is kind of difficult.

[00:41:34] And I do think Hellblade 2 does overcome this

[00:41:38] obstacle, but in a very messy way.

[00:41:40] But you're right.

[00:41:41] So the game starts with essentially Senua.

[00:41:44] She decides that she is going to continue her

[00:41:47] revenge and avenge her lover husband who was

[00:41:51] killed by boarding a slave ship.

[00:41:55] And so sort of like willingly being captured

[00:41:58] with the idea to escape and then overthrow

[00:42:02] this enemy group that essentially enslaves her

[00:42:06] people.

[00:42:07] And so you start the game, you know,

[00:42:10] this beautiful, beautiful,

[00:42:11] we'll talk about this.

[00:42:12] It'll come up a lot.

[00:42:13] It's a beautiful, you know,

[00:42:14] technically impressive moment cut scene.

[00:42:18] You're in a boat and then you wash up on

[00:42:20] the rocky shores of I don't know if it's

[00:42:22] supposed to be Iceland specifically,

[00:42:24] but it's very obviously in the devs that

[00:42:26] said it's inspired by Iceland.

[00:42:29] And yeah, that's it.

[00:42:31] And so you kind of start with this idea

[00:42:33] that, OK, you're going to take on

[00:42:36] this whole faction.

[00:42:37] And so it's it's an uncomfortable,

[00:42:40] uncomfortable.

[00:42:41] It's a messy transition,

[00:42:42] I think, from a game that was so focused

[00:42:45] on the interior, the psychological

[00:42:48] to suddenly Senua is like, OK,

[00:42:50] I'm going to be the liberator of my

[00:42:52] people.

[00:42:53] And Senua is not a typical heroine

[00:42:58] in that sense.

[00:42:59] And so I feel like this is why it's

[00:43:01] a little strange because Senua has just

[00:43:04] come to terms with herself and with

[00:43:07] the psychosis that she is that she

[00:43:09] lives with.

[00:43:10] And there's some sort of like

[00:43:12] stability in her life.

[00:43:14] She's learned to live with the voices

[00:43:16] in her head, psychosis in a much

[00:43:18] healthier way.

[00:43:19] She's kind of overcome some trauma

[00:43:21] that has shaped to who she is.

[00:43:24] And so it just feels a little weird

[00:43:26] that it's like, OK, now suddenly

[00:43:28] she's taking on a role that's

[00:43:30] historically ascribed to people

[00:43:32] who are like extroverted leaders,

[00:43:34] which is not who Senua really is.

[00:43:36] Senua is extremely capable,

[00:43:38] but from my recollection of the

[00:43:41] first game doesn't show like

[00:43:42] leadership skills or like the kind

[00:43:44] of initiative to like be a pillar

[00:43:46] for a community when she was

[00:43:48] ostracized for her entire life.

[00:43:50] And so the game opens with

[00:43:53] this sort of idea.

[00:43:54] And I was immediately conflicted.

[00:43:56] I was like, how does this

[00:43:58] character grow in this way?

[00:44:00] And I'm like, well, I have to

[00:44:01] play the game to find out,

[00:44:02] right, like how she becomes

[00:44:04] somebody who would do this.

[00:44:07] So, yeah, initially, you know,

[00:44:09] Cameron, you're spot on.

[00:44:10] I think your summary is right.

[00:44:11] But initially I was conflicted.

[00:44:13] I was like, does this really

[00:44:15] make sense or are we just kind

[00:44:16] of stretching in order to

[00:44:18] explain a sequel?

[00:44:20] Yeah, it does feel that way a

[00:44:25] little bit like some of the

[00:44:27] motivations are somewhat unclear.

[00:44:33] I mean, I guess they kind of

[00:44:35] make sense.

[00:44:37] Senua is also, it doesn't really

[00:44:39] explain like why she's

[00:44:43] essentially like a superhero a

[00:44:45] little bit, which doesn't really

[00:44:47] matter that much, but was just

[00:44:49] kind of a little bit like how

[00:44:51] can she face off against these

[00:44:52] like crazy Viking warriors?

[00:44:56] And it seems like she has

[00:44:58] superpowers sort of given to

[00:45:00] her, not necessarily clear by

[00:45:02] the gods or maybe

[00:45:05] by like the demons that she

[00:45:06] faces somehow.

[00:45:08] Like she kind of funnels that

[00:45:10] energy anyway.

[00:45:11] I'm not sure on like the clear

[00:45:13] the clear lore of it.

[00:45:17] What I did appreciate this

[00:45:19] this video game reminded me a

[00:45:21] lot of the Northmen movie.

[00:45:23] Oh, the movie.

[00:45:24] OK, which which also has a

[00:45:27] situation where people get

[00:45:29] enslaved and get taken to

[00:45:30] Iceland.

[00:45:33] And there's a lot of lava

[00:45:34] and stuff like that.

[00:45:36] And like nasty, you know,

[00:45:38] slave drivers and stuff like

[00:45:39] that.

[00:45:41] So it just echoed.

[00:45:44] I mean, that's the game kind

[00:45:48] of made me brought those

[00:45:49] feelings back of like in

[00:45:50] remembrance of kind of that

[00:45:51] movie, which is a I don't

[00:45:53] want to say a fun movie,

[00:45:55] which is a good movie,

[00:45:56] which is it's good.

[00:45:58] It is really dark and like

[00:46:00] really intense, but definitely

[00:46:02] worth worth watching.

[00:46:03] It's Robert Eagers,

[00:46:07] who became famous for doing

[00:46:09] the Vavitch.

[00:46:11] If you're not familiar.

[00:46:12] Yeah.

[00:46:13] Go watch the trailer for that

[00:46:14] one and then try and get

[00:46:15] through the rest of your day

[00:46:16] without the heebie jeebies.

[00:46:20] Jake and I watched the

[00:46:21] trailer for that one once

[00:46:22] where we were like, should we

[00:46:23] watch this?

[00:46:24] We watched the trailer.

[00:46:25] No, no, no.

[00:46:28] We're good as Anya Taylor

[00:46:29] join in.

[00:46:30] Yeah, I.

[00:46:32] This is a journey

[00:46:36] for Senua again, sort of.

[00:46:39] It feels like a little bit

[00:46:40] of a rehash.

[00:46:41] She's confronting her demons.

[00:46:43] She's trying to track down

[00:46:44] this like slave owner person

[00:46:48] by kind of going after this

[00:46:49] and then in between like

[00:46:50] there's monsters that show up

[00:46:52] that are attacking people

[00:46:53] and she's got to kind of

[00:46:54] take them down and then

[00:46:55] she's dealing with

[00:46:57] the kind of the kind of

[00:46:58] she's dealing with

[00:46:59] she's still kind of

[00:47:00] continuing to deal with

[00:47:01] the psychosis in her mind,

[00:47:04] which is communicate through

[00:47:05] the game through

[00:47:06] really excellent.

[00:47:08] However, sometimes annoying,

[00:47:10] which is kind of the point.

[00:47:11] Yeah.

[00:47:12] And this is one thing

[00:47:13] that this game

[00:47:14] that I think is going to be

[00:47:15] a big discussion point

[00:47:16] on this game is this game

[00:47:17] is definitely

[00:47:19] I'm trying to find the

[00:47:20] right words.

[00:47:21] This is

[00:47:23] an artistic vision

[00:47:25] like fulfilled

[00:47:28] sometimes at the expense

[00:47:30] of the gamer.

[00:47:31] Yeah, which I really

[00:47:32] respect and appreciate.

[00:47:33] And I think that they do

[00:47:35] some really great things

[00:47:36] because they're willing

[00:47:37] to cross that line.

[00:47:39] They're they're able

[00:47:40] to do some really cool stuff,

[00:47:43] but I'm not sure

[00:47:44] if that makes it a good

[00:47:45] video game

[00:47:47] or makes it like

[00:47:49] but but maybe makes it

[00:47:50] a better audio visual

[00:47:53] interactive experience

[00:47:54] and they're sort of

[00:47:55] a line crossed right.

[00:47:56] And it's like, I think

[00:47:57] we define video games

[00:47:58] very broadly like

[00:47:59] on our show.

[00:48:00] So it's definitely

[00:48:01] a video game, but

[00:48:03] it helps it.

[00:48:05] I think that context

[00:48:06] helps to understand why

[00:48:07] the reviews on this

[00:48:08] were so divisive

[00:48:09] and so like

[00:48:11] fives out of tens

[00:48:12] fours out of tens

[00:48:13] and then eight and

[00:48:14] nines out of tens

[00:48:15] like across the board.

[00:48:16] Yeah,

[00:48:17] it's

[00:48:18] I don't know.

[00:48:19] It's so interesting

[00:48:20] because

[00:48:22] there are other video games

[00:48:23] I feel like we don't

[00:48:24] really question

[00:48:25] that they're video games

[00:48:26] and they have the same

[00:48:27] level of interaction

[00:48:28] in them

[00:48:30] like point and click games

[00:48:31] for example.

[00:48:32] And you could argue

[00:48:33] that there maybe

[00:48:34] even is less

[00:48:35] because there's not

[00:48:36] like a real time

[00:48:37] component in those games

[00:48:40] so for me

[00:48:42] to me like

[00:48:43] Hellblade 2

[00:48:44] is absolutely

[00:48:45] a video game

[00:48:46] but I agree with

[00:48:47] what your

[00:48:48] assessment is here

[00:48:49] that like

[00:48:50] the artistic vision

[00:48:52] was by far

[00:48:53] the priority

[00:48:54] over the

[00:48:55] gamer's experience

[00:48:57] is that a problem?

[00:48:59] No, I think that's fine

[00:49:00] right?

[00:49:01] But

[00:49:02] there is a reality

[00:49:03] that comes with that

[00:49:04] which is you're gonna

[00:49:05] have a really divided

[00:49:06] response.

[00:49:07] If people were looking

[00:49:08] to play

[00:49:09] I saw people comparing

[00:49:10] this to God of War

[00:49:11] which I think is

[00:49:12] frankly just flat out

[00:49:13] apples and oranges

[00:49:15] No,

[00:49:16] yeah,

[00:49:17] that's dumb.

[00:49:18] I don't think

[00:49:19] they belong in the same genre

[00:49:20] and I was talking

[00:49:21] to a friend about this

[00:49:22] actually

[00:49:23] long time listener

[00:49:24] and he was like

[00:49:25] I'm a Hellblade fan

[00:49:26] I was like

[00:49:27] a better comparison

[00:49:28] would probably have been

[00:49:29] Hellblade and

[00:49:30] a Plague Tale

[00:49:31] but even then

[00:49:32] it's still like

[00:49:33] apples and oranges

[00:49:34] right?

[00:49:36] And so

[00:49:37] I actually don't think

[00:49:38] that this was

[00:49:39] an expectation

[00:49:40] issue

[00:49:41] of like

[00:49:42] the gamer's part

[00:49:43] but yeah

[00:49:44] I mean I think the reality

[00:49:45] of something like

[00:49:46] Hellblade 2

[00:49:47] in the way that

[00:49:48] it's presented

[00:49:49] and that the interaction

[00:49:50] is relatively minimal

[00:49:51] although there are moments

[00:49:52] where the interaction

[00:49:53] is really minimal

[00:49:54] and I think

[00:49:55] if you're going to

[00:49:56] have a lot of

[00:49:57] simplified moments

[00:49:58] in the game

[00:50:01] I don't know

[00:50:02] you're just gonna lose

[00:50:03] people

[00:50:04] people are not gonna be

[00:50:05] excited

[00:50:06] people are gonna be upset

[00:50:07] people are gonna be annoyed

[00:50:08] and so I kind of

[00:50:09] think Ninja Theory

[00:50:10] probably brace themselves

[00:50:11] for that kind of

[00:50:12] reaction

[00:50:13] and I just think

[00:50:14] like

[00:50:15] just to repeat myself

[00:50:16] that's the reality

[00:50:17] of putting the

[00:50:18] artist experience

[00:50:22] before anything else

[00:50:23] is that you are gonna

[00:50:24] get a divided reaction

[00:50:25] and I think

[00:50:26] that's a little bit

[00:50:27] of a better job

[00:50:28] in Hellblade 2

[00:50:29] on kind of

[00:50:30] moving things along

[00:50:31] a little bit better

[00:50:32] and making it

[00:50:33] a teeny bit clear

[00:50:34] like what you're

[00:50:35] doing at any given time

[00:50:36] although that

[00:50:37] still can get very

[00:50:38] muddied because

[00:50:39] again the artistic vision

[00:50:40] this game

[00:50:41] is very much

[00:50:42] about like

[00:50:43] psychosis

[00:50:44] and like

[00:50:45] dealing with

[00:50:46] like severe

[00:50:47] like mental health

[00:50:48] challenges

[00:50:49] but in like

[00:50:50] a fantastical

[00:50:51] Viking setting

[00:50:52] right where you're

[00:50:53] in the midst

[00:50:54] of this crazy

[00:50:55] traumatic like

[00:50:56] PTSD driven experience

[00:50:57] of slavery

[00:50:58] and guts

[00:50:59] and like

[00:51:00] you know

[00:51:01] limbs getting cut off

[00:51:02] and like

[00:51:03] demons and

[00:51:04] and crazy stuff

[00:51:05] and zombies

[00:51:06] and stuff

[00:51:07] so that being said

[00:51:12] I do think

[00:51:13] they do a much better

[00:51:14] job of kind of

[00:51:15] keeping the plot

[00:51:16] moving

[00:51:17] I think they add

[00:51:18] elements to the story

[00:51:19] that give

[00:51:20] and I'm referring to

[00:51:23] kind of when you reach

[00:51:24] the middle

[00:51:25] and then they

[00:51:26] they kind of introduce

[00:51:27] this

[00:51:28] this city

[00:51:29] and like this people

[00:51:30] that have been like

[00:51:31] kind of stranded

[00:51:32] in this

[00:51:33] you know different

[00:51:34] whatever

[00:51:35] whatever we're calling it

[00:51:36] this version of Iceland

[00:51:39] which I think gives

[00:51:40] a little bit of

[00:51:41] investment

[00:51:42] it kind of gives

[00:51:43] a little bit more

[00:51:44] of a heroic

[00:51:45] gives a little bit more

[00:51:46] of a

[00:51:47] of a

[00:51:49] of a

[00:51:50] gives a little bit more

[00:51:51] I don't know

[00:51:52] I can't think of the right word

[00:51:55] buoyancy to like

[00:51:56] the idea that

[00:51:57] that Senna was kind of

[00:51:58] a hero

[00:51:59] right like she's like

[00:52:00] a sort of a hero

[00:52:03] which I which I liked

[00:52:04] and I kind of gave

[00:52:06] even though it's like super dark

[00:52:07] and depressing

[00:52:08] it did give a little bit

[00:52:09] of like okay

[00:52:10] she's out to like

[00:52:11] she's gonna go help some people

[00:52:12] and like kind of save

[00:52:13] some people right

[00:52:14] it wasn't necessarily

[00:52:15] a hundred percent about

[00:52:17] kind of that

[00:52:18] psychological journey

[00:52:19] that she's either

[00:52:20] going through in real life

[00:52:21] or not going through

[00:52:22] in her mind

[00:52:23] which again is still

[00:52:24] kind of unclear

[00:52:25] but I think that

[00:52:26] that's the point

[00:52:27] right

[00:52:28] yeah

[00:52:29] yeah

[00:52:30] it it's solid

[00:52:31] it is good

[00:52:32] it's solid

[00:52:33] I do think there might be

[00:52:37] something missing

[00:52:38] because they go so hard

[00:52:41] on the psychological stuff

[00:52:43] that sometimes like

[00:52:44] you get lost

[00:52:45] and what's happening

[00:52:46] and it's hard to keep

[00:52:48] track of it

[00:52:49] and it requires

[00:52:50] like a bit more

[00:52:51] energy and focus

[00:52:52] to kind of really

[00:52:53] capture everything

[00:52:54] that's going on

[00:52:55] because I think there's just

[00:52:56] a lot going on

[00:52:57] in terms of audio

[00:52:58] visual experience

[00:52:59] yeah

[00:53:00] yeah

[00:53:01] I I largely

[00:53:02] agree with this

[00:53:03] I would say

[00:53:04] that

[00:53:05] I mean

[00:53:06] she's dealing with

[00:53:07] psychosis

[00:53:08] and sometimes she's

[00:53:09] in the middle of a

[00:53:10] conversation with like

[00:53:11] two or three other people

[00:53:12] and so typically

[00:53:13] in not just in video games

[00:53:14] but in like a movie

[00:53:15] too

[00:53:16] if there's a conversation

[00:53:17] of three people

[00:53:18] you know they take turns

[00:53:19] they interrupt

[00:53:20] but you can follow

[00:53:21] essentially what's going on

[00:53:22] but imagine

[00:53:23] Senua

[00:53:24] right

[00:53:25] in the player you

[00:53:26] trying to have a

[00:53:27] conversation about

[00:53:28] important narrative details

[00:53:29] but the psychosis voices

[00:53:30] are also

[00:53:31] just a peanut gallery

[00:53:33] constantly chipping in

[00:53:35] and chipping away

[00:53:36] at Senua's confidence

[00:53:37] and sort of

[00:53:38] what's happening

[00:53:39] and the sort of

[00:53:40] the political discussions

[00:53:41] that are occurring

[00:53:42] in that conversation

[00:53:43] and so for the player

[00:53:44] it is immensely difficult

[00:53:45] to focus on

[00:53:46] the concrete details

[00:53:47] of what is happening

[00:53:48] why it's happening

[00:53:49] and what you are going

[00:53:50] to do about it

[00:53:51] right

[00:53:52] and so I think

[00:53:53] this is another moment

[00:53:54] like for the gamer

[00:53:55] you have

[00:53:56] you lose

[00:53:57] it requires a type of concentration

[00:53:58] that you are not accustomed

[00:53:59] to having

[00:54:00] now it's a huge

[00:54:01] artistic win

[00:54:02] because it forces

[00:54:03] the player to empathize

[00:54:04] with the person

[00:54:05] with psychosis

[00:54:06] right

[00:54:07] I kept thinking to myself

[00:54:08] as I was playing this game

[00:54:09] I was like

[00:54:10] oh my gosh

[00:54:11] if you suffered from this

[00:54:13] it would

[00:54:14] having a basic conversation

[00:54:16] would be so

[00:54:17] difficult

[00:54:18] with somebody else

[00:54:19] how could you

[00:54:20] pay attention

[00:54:21] to what somebody

[00:54:22] was telling you

[00:54:23] if somebody was trying

[00:54:24] to explain something

[00:54:25] to you

[00:54:26] and it took them

[00:54:27] four paragraphs

[00:54:28] of oral explanation

[00:54:29] and you had voices

[00:54:30] in your head

[00:54:31] constantly

[00:54:32] berating you

[00:54:33] or the person

[00:54:34] or commenting

[00:54:35] on what's being said

[00:54:36] you couldn't follow squat

[00:54:37] and so

[00:54:38] this I think

[00:54:39] this is a clear example

[00:54:40] like

[00:54:41] it's a very

[00:54:42] interesting narrative

[00:54:43] storytelling

[00:54:44] technique

[00:54:45] fascinating

[00:54:46] it's executed

[00:54:47] beautifully

[00:54:48] but again

[00:54:49] the artistic vision

[00:54:50] wins here

[00:54:51] and I think that's a win

[00:54:52] but the gamer

[00:54:53] you're gonna lose

[00:54:54] the attention

[00:54:55] of a lot of gamers

[00:54:56] by doing something like this

[00:54:57] and so

[00:54:58] the first part

[00:54:59] and I would

[00:55:00] to be totally frank

[00:55:01] I would say actually

[00:55:02] throughout the entirety

[00:55:03] of the game

[00:55:04] really figuring out

[00:55:05] what the politics

[00:55:06] are what they are

[00:55:07] between the different

[00:55:08] factions on the island

[00:55:09] is difficult

[00:55:10] you have to sit there

[00:55:11] and really pay attention

[00:55:12] you have to think about it

[00:55:13] right

[00:55:14] but

[00:55:15] the second part

[00:55:16] is

[00:55:17] it's not until

[00:55:18] chapter three of six

[00:55:19] that you really start

[00:55:20] getting into this stuff

[00:55:21] and upon reflection

[00:55:23] chapters one and two

[00:55:24] feel really

[00:55:25] just too vague

[00:55:26] take the psychosis

[00:55:27] cool artistic

[00:55:28] storytelling shell

[00:55:29] off of it

[00:55:30] I think that the

[00:55:31] game's narrative

[00:55:32] is just far too vague

[00:55:33] and doesn't get

[00:55:34] into things

[00:55:35] early enough

[00:55:36] it's too slow

[00:55:37] to kind of get

[00:55:38] where it wants to go

[00:55:39] and then

[00:55:40] the last thing

[00:55:41] I have to say about

[00:55:42] narrative is

[00:55:43] the second half

[00:55:44] of this game though

[00:55:45] narratively

[00:55:46] oh man

[00:55:47] it is so good

[00:55:48] I really enjoyed it

[00:55:50] I really enjoyed

[00:55:51] like okay Sen was

[00:55:52] sort of in a position

[00:55:53] where people are

[00:55:54] depending on her now

[00:55:55] because she's incredibly capable

[00:55:56] how does she handle that

[00:55:58] how does she handle

[00:55:59] that kind of responsibility

[00:56:00] and then this is where

[00:56:02] the game starts

[00:56:03] really leaning into

[00:56:04] like the mythological

[00:56:05] and fantastical elements

[00:56:06] of the game

[00:56:07] and of the world

[00:56:08] this is where like

[00:56:09] instead of the environments

[00:56:10] just looking like

[00:56:11] something beautiful

[00:56:12] the environments are like

[00:56:13] they start telling

[00:56:14] the story as well

[00:56:15] through like

[00:56:16] mythological beings

[00:56:17] through fantastical elements

[00:56:19] and that's to me

[00:56:21] where all came together

[00:56:22] and so like

[00:56:23] narratively I feel like

[00:56:24] if you fell off this game

[00:56:25] in the first three chapters

[00:56:26] I couldn't blame you

[00:56:27] but if you finished the game

[00:56:29] there's stuff to talk about

[00:56:30] yeah 100% agree

[00:56:34] when it goes into

[00:56:35] that part of the game

[00:56:36] which I was just

[00:56:37] kind of mentioning

[00:56:38] when she kind of gets

[00:56:39] into her hero camp

[00:56:40] a little bit

[00:56:42] that's when it gets

[00:56:43] it just gets a lot better

[00:56:45] you know I don't know

[00:56:46] like I don't know

[00:56:47] what it is

[00:56:48] it's just better

[00:56:50] it's more satisfying

[00:56:51] to kind of watch

[00:56:52] things unfold

[00:56:53] and it's nice

[00:56:54] to see Senua

[00:56:55] kind of dealing with

[00:56:56] somebody else's problems

[00:56:57] I'll be honest

[00:56:58] it is and I think

[00:57:00] like that's where

[00:57:01] the sequel

[00:57:02] felt like an organic

[00:57:03] sequel to me

[00:57:04] where it's like

[00:57:05] okay how does Senua

[00:57:07] deal with somebody

[00:57:08] else's problems

[00:57:09] right in the first

[00:57:10] two chapters of the game

[00:57:11] you get to

[00:57:12] the chapters of the game

[00:57:13] you don't get that

[00:57:14] but then when

[00:57:15] you do get that

[00:57:16] you're like oh dude

[00:57:17] okay now I'm

[00:57:18] now I'm interested

[00:57:19] and maybe that's

[00:57:20] the message Jake

[00:57:21] is when

[00:57:22] you're struggling

[00:57:23] with your own problems

[00:57:24] you can go

[00:57:25] work on someone else's

[00:57:26] and that's a wrap

[00:57:27] no

[00:57:28] let's talk about mechanics

[00:57:31] I think this is the most

[00:57:32] divisive part of this game

[00:57:33] there's essentially

[00:57:34] two elements here

[00:57:35] you basically have

[00:57:37] puzzle solving

[00:57:40] and combat

[00:57:42] and otherwise

[00:57:44] you're kind of just

[00:57:46] walking

[00:57:47] listen you are

[00:57:50] you are

[00:57:51] what's a word

[00:57:53] for movement that's

[00:57:54] slower than walking

[00:57:55] you're ambling

[00:57:56] and then the run button

[00:57:58] is when you start walking

[00:58:01] dude I tell you what

[00:58:02] to all the game

[00:58:03] developers out there

[00:58:04] if you want someone

[00:58:05] to quit your game

[00:58:06] make the character too slow

[00:58:09] I'm just saying

[00:58:10] you're just asking

[00:58:13] a lot from people

[00:58:14] to push up on the stick

[00:58:15] and have it feel like

[00:58:17] you're just wading

[00:58:18] through a bowl of molasses

[00:58:20] which I feel like

[00:58:21] is almost literal

[00:58:22] in some points of Senua

[00:58:26] it's like if you're

[00:58:27] gonna make it that slow

[00:58:28] just do it for me

[00:58:29] I don't want to

[00:58:30] push up on the stick

[00:58:31] I just don't want to do it

[00:58:33] it feels like work

[00:58:36] and that happens

[00:58:37] that happens a lot

[00:58:38] this is speaking to my

[00:58:39] aging body

[00:58:40] but at one point

[00:58:41] so sprint is on the left button

[00:58:43] at one point

[00:58:44] my left pointer finger

[00:58:46] got tired of holding down that button

[00:58:48] and so I kid you not

[00:58:50] I don't know if there's a cool name

[00:58:52] for this grip

[00:58:53] but I was pushing up

[00:58:54] on the thumb stick

[00:58:55] and reaching over

[00:58:56] with my right hand

[00:58:57] to hold in left button

[00:58:59] to move faster in the game

[00:59:02] and again I think

[00:59:03] Ninja Theory doesn't really

[00:59:05] care what you think

[00:59:06] what I think

[00:59:07] and they just do

[00:59:08] what they want to do

[00:59:10] and that's the bottom line

[00:59:12] and that's sort of

[00:59:13] and if you look at

[00:59:14] their past games

[00:59:16] and you look at

[00:59:17] the history of this studio

[00:59:18] this studio is barely

[00:59:20] financially viable

[00:59:21] oh interesting

[00:59:24] so I took some time

[00:59:25] to kind of look back

[00:59:26] at their like older titles

[00:59:27] and they all have these

[00:59:29] very very strong

[00:59:31] very defined like artistic

[00:59:33] vision and position

[00:59:34] with very kind of unique offerings

[00:59:36] and what they offer

[00:59:37] like with their games

[00:59:39] but they're just not

[00:59:40] a very financially successful studio

[00:59:43] because they go hard on

[00:59:46] these artistic visions

[00:59:48] that just like most of the time

[00:59:50] are just not hitting

[00:59:51] with most people

[00:59:53] interesting

[00:59:54] and are not like broadly appeal

[00:59:55] so we'll get into that

[00:59:57] when we talk about impact

[00:59:58] on the industry

[00:59:59] but that brings us to

[01:00:00] so you've got combat

[01:00:02] puzzle solving is largely

[01:00:03] similar to the first game

[01:00:04] it's a lot of like visual

[01:00:06] puzzle solving

[01:00:07] by aligning

[01:00:10] items in the environment

[01:00:13] against each other

[01:00:14] to line up with different

[01:00:16] with symbols in the world

[01:00:18] that then kind of unlock

[01:00:21] things

[01:00:23] so that you can see them

[01:00:24] and then you can kind of

[01:00:25] move on to the next area

[01:00:27] this is the same

[01:00:28] kind of as in the first game

[01:00:29] but I think they made it

[01:00:31] slightly easier

[01:00:33] in this game

[01:00:34] which some people didn't like

[01:00:35] I actually did appreciate that

[01:00:36] because I didn't really love

[01:00:38] those puzzles to be honest

[01:00:40] and so they just basically

[01:00:41] made them shorter

[01:00:43] and like a little bit easier

[01:00:46] which I'm not a massive

[01:00:47] puzzle guy

[01:00:48] so I kind of appreciate

[01:00:49] because I'm kind of dumb

[01:00:50] and so I was like

[01:00:52] yeah this is fine

[01:00:54] you know I actually think

[01:00:55] I mostly agree with you

[01:00:58] again the puzzles

[01:00:59] in the first two

[01:01:00] or so chapters of the game

[01:01:01] were just way too

[01:01:02] basic way too slow for me

[01:01:04] and then they finally got

[01:01:05] interesting again

[01:01:07] and I agree

[01:01:08] yeah you explained it

[01:01:10] beautifully I was struggling

[01:01:11] to think of how to explain

[01:01:12] the puzzles are just aligning

[01:01:13] things to make symbols right

[01:01:15] but yeah

[01:01:17] the mechanics that get added

[01:01:18] to these puzzles is like

[01:01:19] you have a way to

[01:01:21] manipulate the environment

[01:01:22] so you can access

[01:01:24] the viewing point

[01:01:25] to align the items

[01:01:27] it's pretty bare bones

[01:01:29] I would say that

[01:01:30] there were probably two

[01:01:32] puzzle sequences that

[01:01:33] stood out to me

[01:01:35] as interesting the rest

[01:01:36] seem pretty

[01:01:38] I don't know

[01:01:39] fine

[01:01:40] existing

[01:01:42] but I'm with you

[01:01:43] I was like okay

[01:01:44] they're there

[01:01:45] so for gameplay pacing

[01:01:46] sure

[01:01:47] it's all fine and stuff

[01:01:49] but when they actually

[01:01:50] tied the puzzles into like

[01:01:52] there's like one moment

[01:01:53] without spoiling where

[01:01:54] you're kind of like

[01:01:55] following something

[01:01:56] to get information

[01:01:58] and then you can

[01:01:59] get information

[01:02:01] give me the carrot

[01:02:02] at the end of the stick

[01:02:03] when I'm doing some

[01:02:04] of these puzzle sequences

[01:02:05] that will engage me

[01:02:06] infinitely more than

[01:02:07] just be like

[01:02:08] I don't know

[01:02:09] how do you get around

[01:02:10] this thing

[01:02:11] that's in the way

[01:02:12] figure it out

[01:02:13] you know

[01:02:14] yeah 100%

[01:02:16] so the other element

[01:02:17] is combat

[01:02:19] and combat takes place

[01:02:20] usually like in arenas

[01:02:22] and

[01:02:24] you'll have kind of one

[01:02:25] enemy come to you at a time

[01:02:28] and then you have a light attack

[01:02:29] and a heavy attack

[01:02:30] and a dodge

[01:02:31] and a block

[01:02:34] and it's pretty straightforward

[01:02:35] I found it fine

[01:02:38] I think the thing

[01:02:39] that we haven't mentioned yet

[01:02:40] that

[01:02:42] we'll get into I think

[01:02:43] a bit more on the impact

[01:02:44] on the industry part but

[01:02:46] I'm

[01:02:47] fairly certain

[01:02:48] this is the visually

[01:02:50] the best

[01:02:51] most graphically

[01:02:52] impressive game I've ever played

[01:02:53] hands down

[01:02:54] yeah

[01:02:55] like it is pushing

[01:02:56] the envelope of graphics

[01:02:58] for sure

[01:03:00] like no question

[01:03:02] it's doing things that

[01:03:03] no other game is doing

[01:03:04] like from a graphics perspective

[01:03:05] from a technical standpoint

[01:03:07] so those combat

[01:03:08] sequences while

[01:03:09] they are a little bit

[01:03:10] like combat light

[01:03:12] and

[01:03:14] not particularly strategic

[01:03:15] and not particularly like

[01:03:18] I don't know

[01:03:20] involved

[01:03:22] they look fricking amazing

[01:03:23] they look just

[01:03:24] like the movement

[01:03:26] the fluidity of movement

[01:03:27] the animations

[01:03:28] like the realistic

[01:03:30] faces and facial animation

[01:03:33] the lighting

[01:03:34] like the swords

[01:03:35] clanking off each other

[01:03:36] and like the sparks flying

[01:03:38] and giving like individual

[01:03:40] lit

[01:03:41] you know sparks

[01:03:42] pixels on the screen

[01:03:43] like it's wild

[01:03:45] like it looks fricking wild

[01:03:47] so

[01:03:49] while the combat did feel

[01:03:50] like combat

[01:03:51] light

[01:03:52] like those sequences were still

[01:03:53] for me

[01:03:54] I like kind of

[01:03:56] like I was into them

[01:03:57] because

[01:03:58] it was sort of like a visual

[01:03:59] spectacle

[01:04:00] where I got to push some buttons

[01:04:01] and kind of be involved with it

[01:04:03] yeah

[01:04:04] yeah I would agree that like

[01:04:06] combat itself

[01:04:07] like you said

[01:04:08] you mentioned the button layout

[01:04:09] there's not much more beyond

[01:04:11] those buttons

[01:04:12] it looks good

[01:04:13] and it feels so good

[01:04:14] like

[01:04:16] they did something

[01:04:17] with like the way that

[01:04:18] the camera angles position

[01:04:19] and

[01:04:20] the 1v1

[01:04:21] I've

[01:04:22] been struggling to sort of

[01:04:23] articulate

[01:04:24] or come out

[01:04:25] how to articulate this

[01:04:26] it almost feels like a fighting game

[01:04:28] but it's like dueling

[01:04:29] 1v1

[01:04:30] scenarios

[01:04:32] sometimes it's a gauntlet

[01:04:33] where if you want to get through

[01:04:34] combat challenge

[01:04:35] you have to 1v1

[01:04:36] like 7 plus enemies

[01:04:38] sometimes it's a boss fight

[01:04:41] very cool stuff

[01:04:42] and then the one mechanic

[01:04:44] in addition to just like

[01:04:45] your basic combat buttons

[01:04:46] would be the focus

[01:04:48] that you get

[01:04:49] essentially when you have

[01:04:51] I think it's through evasions

[01:04:52] and parries

[01:04:53] you can build up

[01:04:54] a focus meter

[01:04:55] and then this will be on your left trigger

[01:04:58] and essentially you can use that

[01:05:00] in a variety of different ways

[01:05:01] and so the game doesn't

[01:05:02] explain this to you

[01:05:03] but I stumbled across it

[01:05:05] based on my own experience

[01:05:06] using the focus

[01:05:07] and some things that I saw

[01:05:08] on social media

[01:05:09] where

[01:05:11] just like the first game

[01:05:12] if you have focus meter

[01:05:13] you click that

[01:05:14] you kind of regenerate

[01:05:15] your health

[01:05:17] and then you go back into

[01:05:18] the fight

[01:05:20] it also slows down time

[01:05:22] so if there's a particularly

[01:05:23] tough enemy

[01:05:24] the flamethrower enemies

[01:05:25] were a huge pain in the butt

[01:05:26] I felt like

[01:05:27] and so often times

[01:05:28] I'd use a focus

[01:05:29] so I could close a gap

[01:05:30] and just like take them out

[01:05:31] before they did their

[01:05:32] flamethrower attack

[01:05:34] but the cool thing about the focus

[01:05:37] that I think is new actually

[01:05:38] from the first game

[01:05:39] and I saw this on social media

[01:05:41] is that for certain attacks

[01:05:43] you could use the focus button

[01:05:44] like a parry

[01:05:46] and

[01:05:47] it would parry and counter attack

[01:05:49] so for example

[01:05:50] there's an enemy that throws spears

[01:05:52] and if you hit

[01:05:53] if you have focus

[01:05:54] and you hit the focus

[01:05:55] when you would normally do

[01:05:57] for a perfect parry

[01:05:58] you catch the spear

[01:06:00] and you do this cool spin animation

[01:06:01] and you hook it back at the enemy

[01:06:04] and I was like

[01:06:05] why was this not tutorialized?

[01:06:07] because this is dope as heck

[01:06:09] like

[01:06:10] I had to

[01:06:11] somebody stumbled across this

[01:06:13] oh yeah yeah yeah

[01:06:14] I know I saw this

[01:06:15] and now I'm starting to do it

[01:06:17] I was like

[01:06:18] so combat I felt like

[01:06:20] totally agree with you

[01:06:21] super visually spectacular

[01:06:22] I really enjoyed it

[01:06:23] and I actually think

[01:06:25] it got better and better

[01:06:26] towards the end of the game

[01:06:27] like I really enjoyed the final boss

[01:06:30] but I was like

[01:06:31] dude

[01:06:32] and I'm gonna talk about this

[01:06:33] in Impact on the Industry

[01:06:34] but Hellblade 3

[01:06:36] tutorialize

[01:06:37] the dopeness

[01:06:38] of your combat

[01:06:39] and give us

[01:06:40] a little more

[01:06:41] when it comes to those

[01:06:42] combat mechanics

[01:06:43] and you got something

[01:06:44] that people will be sharing

[01:06:46] you know

[01:06:47] 30 second clips of on social media

[01:06:49] this game is so close

[01:06:51] I feel like to like hitting

[01:06:53] a really interesting and fun

[01:06:55] and

[01:06:56] but to be honest

[01:06:57] I thought it was interesting and fun

[01:06:58] I really enjoyed it

[01:06:59] but I think in terms of more mass appeal

[01:07:02] Hellblade 2 was so close

[01:07:03] to hitting something

[01:07:04] with greater mass appeal

[01:07:05] with

[01:07:06] interesting and fun combat

[01:07:07] it was so close

[01:07:09] but it just fell

[01:07:10] a little short for me

[01:07:11] yeah it just

[01:07:14] it needed more video game

[01:07:16] and I

[01:07:17] I know this is a video game

[01:07:18] I'm not saying this is not a video game

[01:07:19] but it needed more

[01:07:23] it's a

[01:07:24] that term we use

[01:07:25] the video gaminess

[01:07:26] of the game

[01:07:27] yeah

[01:07:28] right

[01:07:29] like God of War

[01:07:30] is sort of the

[01:07:32] exact opposite

[01:07:33] of Hellblade

[01:07:34] in many ways

[01:07:36] because it very much leans into

[01:07:37] like the video gaminess of it

[01:07:39] right

[01:07:40] right

[01:07:42] Hellblade doesn't do that

[01:07:44] it sticks to its artistic

[01:07:46] vision

[01:07:47] maybe to a fault

[01:07:50] but

[01:07:52] again like it's kind of comparing apples

[01:07:54] to oranges

[01:07:56] a little bit

[01:07:57] yeah I mean I think

[01:07:58] Hellblade 2 doesn't need a skill tree

[01:08:00] it doesn't need

[01:08:02] weapon crafting

[01:08:03] it doesn't need stats

[01:08:05] it's got the flash

[01:08:07] but I do think you need more tools

[01:08:09] in your arsenal

[01:08:10] to give combat a bit more variety

[01:08:13] because a lot of the variety in this game

[01:08:15] comes from the different enemy types

[01:08:16] and how you're going to just encounter them

[01:08:18] and maybe we disagree here

[01:08:20] I just think Hellblade needed

[01:08:21] just a touch more gaminess

[01:08:23] and I don't think Cameron's saying that

[01:08:24] it needs to be God of War right

[01:08:26] I think that would actually

[01:08:27] detract from the game

[01:08:28] but it definitely needed more gaminess

[01:08:31] more gaminess

[01:08:32] more designed

[01:08:34] more

[01:08:37] more challenge

[01:08:41] and more like designed

[01:08:43] and challenge

[01:08:44] I don't know a better way to say it

[01:08:46] than that right

[01:08:47] like I don't know

[01:08:48] make combat more punishing

[01:08:50] and make it more rock paper scissors

[01:08:52] where you have to

[01:08:54] like I could almost see like a

[01:08:56] I can almost see like a punch out style situation

[01:08:58] but with swords

[01:09:00] right that's kind of what it reminds me of

[01:09:02] but it's easy right

[01:09:03] it's way easier

[01:09:04] make Hellblade a fighting game

[01:09:07] like in terms of combat

[01:09:08] like I think it's almost there

[01:09:11] yeah like seriously

[01:09:13] like I could see absolutely see

[01:09:15] you could make that combat that's in there

[01:09:17] almost like

[01:09:19] Super Nintendo punch out style

[01:09:21] in it's difficulty and challenge

[01:09:23] and that would make it

[01:09:25] a more like satisfying experience

[01:09:28] but again that doesn't fit with the artistic vision of

[01:09:30] of the developers

[01:09:32] which they obviously are extremely committed

[01:09:34] yeah so it won't happen

[01:09:35] but it would be nice

[01:09:37] but it's like

[01:09:40] it would make it more gamey

[01:09:41] it would

[01:09:43] but does it need to be

[01:09:45] I think that brings us straight into

[01:09:47] talking about impact on the industry

[01:09:49] or sorry we talked

[01:09:51] we talked about that is the gameplay loop

[01:09:53] you just go through the game and you do those encounters

[01:09:55] yeah the game is divided into

[01:09:57] six chapters

[01:09:59] do them

[01:10:01] six chapters linear

[01:10:03] you literally push forward

[01:10:05] fight people and do puzzles

[01:10:09] that explains the gameplay loop

[01:10:11] into the impact on the industry

[01:10:13] because I think this is the most impactful

[01:10:15] part of this conversation

[01:10:17] so looking at Ninja

[01:10:19] Theory's history

[01:10:21] their history is fraught with

[01:10:23] doing a lot of games just like

[01:10:25] this

[01:10:29] and

[01:10:34] none of them have been

[01:10:38] particularly financially viable

[01:10:40] to the point that

[01:10:42] I believe it's in 2000 I would have to go

[01:10:44] look up the exact reference but sometime in

[01:10:46] the late 2000s

[01:10:48] they had to sell

[01:10:50] their technology

[01:10:52] they had to sell their technology

[01:10:54] that they had invented at the studio in order to keep the studio alive

[01:10:56] oh interesting

[01:10:58] yeah

[01:11:00] and this team is incredibly

[01:11:02] technically talented

[01:11:04] yes like they invent

[01:11:06] technologies literally

[01:11:08] like they invent

[01:11:10] graphical stuff

[01:11:12] like they're crazy talented

[01:11:14] they make like cool artistic games

[01:11:16] that's what the studio does

[01:11:18] is this studio going to get shut down?

[01:11:24] okay

[01:11:26] because we live in a different era now

[01:11:28] when Xbox bought Ninja Theory

[01:11:30] it was like cool studio

[01:11:32] that makes artistic games and we can put them on

[01:11:34] Game Pass

[01:11:36] well the strategy has changed now

[01:11:38] the strategy has changed we don't live in the nice

[01:11:40] play nice gaming

[01:11:42] fun gaming world anymore we live in the

[01:11:44] game pass must make incredible profit

[01:11:46] or

[01:11:48] Phil Spencer you're fired

[01:11:50] so like

[01:11:52] what happens to Ninja Theory?

[01:11:54] what do they do? like what's their role

[01:11:56] in the Microsoft Studio?

[01:11:58] yeah

[01:12:00] I think this is an excellent question

[01:12:02] and I was really worried

[01:12:04] until this thought

[01:12:06] came to my mind and it was based off of

[01:12:08] I can't remember somebody had tweeted something

[01:12:10] similar out

[01:12:12] I said it too because it is such a visual

[01:12:14] masterpiece and I promised my wife I would throw

[01:12:16] in her quote here she said that this game

[01:12:18] has the best and most realistic

[01:12:20] ponytail physics I have ever seen

[01:12:22] right? it was incredible

[01:12:24] ponytail physics

[01:12:26] she was in awe watching

[01:12:28] Senwa's ponytail this entire game

[01:12:30] and folks you should be in awe

[01:12:32] of watching Senwa's ponytail because this game

[01:12:34] is a technical marvel

[01:12:36] it is beautiful

[01:12:38] I

[01:12:40] think this is a compliment

[01:12:42] playing this game sometimes I didn't know if I was

[01:12:44] in gameplay or in cutscenes

[01:12:46] because the transition was so

[01:12:48] smooth and because the game looked

[01:12:50] identical whether it was a cutscene

[01:12:52] or you were actually just playing the

[01:12:54] game so we've made it

[01:12:56] folks like we've made it like this

[01:12:58] is to me I'm like I've reached one

[01:13:00] of those moments in my life I'm like can graphics

[01:13:02] get any better than Hellblade 2? like it

[01:13:04] is so so good

[01:13:06] now if Microsoft

[01:13:08] and if you're listening Microsoft executives

[01:13:10] if you close the studio

[01:13:12] and you disperse the knowledge of the

[01:13:14] team and all the technology

[01:13:16] that you invested in this team

[01:13:18] with state of the art mocap and everything

[01:13:20] to create something

[01:13:22] at this technical level

[01:13:24] that is the biggest shot in the foot

[01:13:26] that you could give yourself you have a team

[01:13:28] of experts in Unreal Engine 5 right now

[01:13:30] and to me

[01:13:32] I don't think

[01:13:34] this studio gets disbanded because

[01:13:36] I think that they will be assigned

[01:13:38] to help coach and train other

[01:13:40] developers at other Xbox first party

[01:13:42] studios to be proficient

[01:13:44] in Unreal Engine 5

[01:13:47] there was a rumor or theory thrown

[01:13:49] out that this team is supporting

[01:13:53] potential somebody had

[01:13:55] dropped I don't know if this is true at all

[01:13:57] it's probably not 100% speculation warning

[01:13:59] 100% speculation

[01:14:01] that they're supporting like the gear 6 team

[01:14:03] with Unreal 5

[01:14:05] stuff

[01:14:07] but the coalition is like

[01:14:09] Unreal experts so they also

[01:14:11] support a lot of other teams at Xbox

[01:14:13] which is kind of interesting so that doesn't seem

[01:14:15] right to me

[01:14:17] but can you imagine like a gear 6

[01:14:19] with this level of visual fidelity

[01:14:21] oh dude yeah

[01:14:23] it'd be amazing

[01:14:25] that'd be insane

[01:14:27] and way more like mass appeal

[01:14:29] so then

[01:14:31] I get into my business head and I'm like

[01:14:33] does Ninja Theory just become

[01:14:35] primarily like a support studio that we let

[01:14:37] work on artistic projects

[01:14:39] so

[01:14:41] because otherwise

[01:14:43] how are you you're not financially viable

[01:14:45] right nobody played this dude

[01:14:47] nobody played this and nobody will play this

[01:14:49] Hellblade 2 I think

[01:14:51] is the perfect example

[01:14:53] of what feels like the

[01:14:55] old guards philosophy of

[01:14:57] game pass

[01:14:59] it generates so much revenue in theory

[01:15:01] from your AAA first party

[01:15:03] studios making a ton of money

[01:15:05] that you get to fund and

[01:15:07] constantly beef up game

[01:15:09] pass with very cool double A

[01:15:11] and indie experiences which

[01:15:13] Xbox I would say up into 2024

[01:15:15] has been able to do

[01:15:17] with their own first and third party

[01:15:19] title games listen you will always

[01:15:21] hear us sing praises of games like

[01:15:23] Pentament and Grounded for example

[01:15:25] and Hi-Fi Rush

[01:15:27] which you know sad story

[01:15:29] and we've talked about that in another episode

[01:15:31] games that were first

[01:15:33] party Xbox studio that made

[01:15:35] game pass so awesome

[01:15:37] to have right

[01:15:39] now Ninja Theory

[01:15:41] has been working on project Mara

[01:15:43] which has been announced since 2020

[01:15:45] and Windows

[01:15:47] Central has said

[01:15:49] that another project has been

[01:15:51] greenlit already now

[01:15:53] because that project has been

[01:15:55] greenlit I don't think that's safe

[01:15:57] in today's gaming environment

[01:15:59] but let me tell you

[01:16:01] project Mara which is supposed to be

[01:16:03] just you know more of a classically

[01:16:05] horror type game

[01:16:07] is going to scare the crap out

[01:16:09] of anybody if it looks half

[01:16:11] as good as Hellblade 2

[01:16:13] I won't be playing it because I'm a scaredy cat

[01:16:15] but if you are a horror fan

[01:16:17] Hellblade 2 is going to put out an amazing

[01:16:19] super weird short game

[01:16:21] in project Mara and it's going to look

[01:16:23] phenomenal and so I agree with you Cameron

[01:16:25] I think that this studio puts out

[01:16:27] games like project Mara

[01:16:29] which folks

[01:16:31] I'm also speculating here I don't have

[01:16:33] any insider info that project Mara

[01:16:35] will be short or whatever

[01:16:37] but I'm just kind of speculating

[01:16:39] based off of what we've seen from Hellblade 2

[01:16:41] that this project Mara

[01:16:43] is probably going to be another fantastic

[01:16:45] super niche experience

[01:16:47] but like you

[01:16:49] say Cameron I think Microsoft is trying

[01:16:51] to think how do we get our money's

[01:16:53] worth out of the investment in Ninja Theory

[01:16:55] and have them be a support studio too

[01:16:59] Yeah they bought Activision and we

[01:17:01] talked about this, Xbox has

[01:17:03] a bullseye on them now like

[01:17:05] nobody even cared about Xbox until

[01:17:07] the Activision acquisition went through

[01:17:09] and now in those

[01:17:11] executive meetings with

[01:17:13] Satya Nadella

[01:17:15] they're looking over at Xbox and being like hey

[01:17:17] what are we doing

[01:17:19] over here? We just made

[01:17:21] a big acquisition. Pre-acquisition

[01:17:23] it was like it was almost

[01:17:25] like it was like a side project at Microsoft

[01:17:27] Yeah Xbox, like that's how small

[01:17:29] it was. Xbox was nothing compared to

[01:17:31] Windows right?

[01:17:33] So it was like you could kind of live in this

[01:17:35] space of like we can

[01:17:37] just kind of chill and like

[01:17:39] we can buy game studios

[01:17:41] and we got our little game thing and then you

[01:17:43] bought Activision and now it's like

[01:17:45] okay it's time to game

[01:17:47] Right? And I don't know if that's good or

[01:17:49] if that's bad to be honest. Yeah

[01:17:51] That's funny. You already answered the question I was just

[01:17:53] going to ask you. In that regard

[01:17:55] is the Activision Blizzard

[01:17:57] acquisition a good thing? For consumers

[01:17:59] for gamers, folks

[01:18:01] we don't have to like I wish

[01:18:03] people could understand this. You

[01:18:05] as a gamer you don't have to care

[01:18:07] about how Xbox does financially

[01:18:09] If they are put in all

[01:18:11] sorts of stuff on Game Pass which is still

[01:18:13] the best value in gaming for the consumer

[01:18:15] I

[01:18:17] don't care if they go under because

[01:18:19] I'm getting such a freaking great deal out of it right?

[01:18:21] Oh no like it's that's not

[01:18:23] our responsibility. It's not. Well

[01:18:25] it's not our responsibility

[01:18:29] and we really don't have any

[01:18:31] control over it except what you buy

[01:18:33] with your expect if you buy Game Pass

[01:18:35] or not. Right but the point I'm trying to get

[01:18:37] to is like did they bite

[01:18:39] off more than they can chew when it comes to

[01:18:41] Microsoft oversight

[01:18:43] in the

[01:18:45] Activision Blizzard acquisition

[01:18:47] I don't know. I mean that's

[01:18:49] they've changed the stride. They've made a drastic

[01:18:51] strategic change now and we're going to see

[01:18:53] it's going to be really interesting to see what they talk about

[01:18:55] that was the other thing we didn't mention for the Xbox

[01:18:57] show. It's rumored they're going to show

[01:18:59] a handheld.

[01:19:01] Oh man that would be dope.

[01:19:03] A first party Xbox handheld.

[01:19:05] Yeah. So if you've got

[01:19:07] a handheld with Game Pass

[01:19:09] built into it right

[01:19:11] and it's got this cool like

[01:19:13] Xbox gaming UI right? Yeah.

[01:19:17] Does that do well?

[01:19:19] I don't know. You know can

[01:19:21] you I don't know. The strategy

[01:19:23] shifted now. It's a different

[01:19:25] ball game

[01:19:27] and it's going to be

[01:19:29] really interesting to see kind of what happens

[01:19:31] I'm worried about these studios like Ninja

[01:19:33] Theory. I'm really worried about them because I

[01:19:35] like that they exist. I love

[01:19:37] that experiences like this exist

[01:19:39] and we always thought like this is why

[01:19:41] Game Pass is for. It's for

[01:19:43] the Hi-Fi rushes and it's for the

[01:19:45] Hellblade 2. So people

[01:19:47] can open up their Game Pass and be like oh what's this

[01:19:49] cool game that's on the front page? Like this

[01:19:51] looks dope. I'm going to download it and play it for

[01:19:53] three hours. And that was like the whole point

[01:19:55] of making these games exist. And

[01:19:57] now it looks like maybe

[01:19:59] that's not the whole point anymore because you

[01:20:01] can't get away with it anymore.

[01:20:03] I think that's really well stated. I think

[01:20:05] that's super well stated. I don't know if I have much to add

[01:20:07] on top of that. Trying

[01:20:09] to think about other things for impact to the industry.

[01:20:11] Folks, yeah,

[01:20:13] like I said, this is

[01:20:15] the best looking game ever and that's

[01:20:17] relatively undisputed

[01:20:19] which I think is really cool.

[01:20:21] It's rare that you have something on

[01:20:23] gaming social media that's so undisputed.

[01:20:25] People stop arguing about the visuals because

[01:20:27] there's nothing to argue. It looks so amazing.

[01:20:29] And I

[01:20:31] hope

[01:20:33] listen, I don't expect

[01:20:35] every single studio to go hyper

[01:20:37] fidelity, best graphics, super photo realistic

[01:20:39] like in the art direction, not at all.

[01:20:41] But the studios who do have that goal,

[01:20:43] I hope that Helbally2 is a source

[01:20:45] of inspiration because it just looks

[01:20:47] so freaking good. I would love to see other

[01:20:49] games at this level of

[01:20:51] visual appeal.

[01:20:53] Yeah, 100 percent.

[01:20:55] I love this team to be working with other teams

[01:20:57] and helping them make

[01:20:59] the more

[01:21:01] video gaming games

[01:21:03] kind of have some of these bells

[01:21:05] and whistles in them and like make them look this good.

[01:21:07] Because it just looks

[01:21:09] insane.

[01:21:11] That being said, it only runs

[01:21:13] at 30 frames and it's pretty linear.

[01:21:15] So I don't know what that means

[01:21:17] if it's a bigger scope, right?

[01:21:19] Right. It's funny though because

[01:21:21] I didn't even notice

[01:21:23] actually for a while that it was 30

[01:21:25] FPS. I don't know if I was

[01:21:27] too distracted by the visuals or the game

[01:21:29] is slow enough.

[01:21:31] The game is just slow.

[01:21:33] Yeah, it's so slow.

[01:21:35] Well, ladies and gentlemen,

[01:21:39] this has been

[01:21:41] another episode of the Pre-Order

[01:21:43] Bonus Podcast talking Helbally2

[01:21:45] and some Xbox showcase

[01:21:47] predictions coming

[01:21:49] in just two days on Sunday.

[01:21:51] Today we'll have the Summer Games

[01:21:53] Fest later this

[01:21:55] afternoon. Jake and I will be watching that.

[01:21:57] We'll watch the Xbox show. So hopefully

[01:21:59] you heard some of our predictions there.

[01:22:01] Some interesting conversation.

[01:22:03] Hopefully we get some of those.

[01:22:05] Especially

[01:22:07] Silksong looking at you.

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