Palworld

[00:00:00] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of The Pre-Order Bonus podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Cameron Warren, and I'm joined, as always, by Professor Jacob Price. Jake, it's January 23rd, 2024, and we are coming in hot with a quick off the draw gunslinging episode.

[00:00:33] The wordplay is intended, right? The wordplay here has to be intended. Or your subconscious was just thinking, working overtime. It's all subconscious. On... Palworld. Imagine a world where you kill Pokemon for fun. In a world filled with pals.

[00:00:56] Yeah, I mean, Jake and I got together. We played some Palworld over the weekend. And you know, we felt like we had to jump on the hype bandwagon before it dies, you know?

[00:01:09] In a world of increasingly bad takes, we thought, why not throw ours onto the top of the pile? These are the freshest bad takes that you're going to hear all day. There's so many takes. Why not have an additional take that you can have from us?

[00:01:26] You know what's wild, though? There's always gaming discourse in social media, and it comes up, and it blows up, and it tends to be sort of just like recycled. And some sort of iteration is something we've heard before, whether it be difficulty settings, whether

[00:01:41] it be accessibility, blah, blah, blah, blah. Palworld manages to be the absolute... Maybe this is just a beautiful analogy of what Palworld is. The discourse around Palworld has somehow become an agglomeration of every single discourse, I feel like imaginable, into one giant blob. And that is Palworld.

[00:02:10] Thank you for joining us this episode. Good night. That's it. Thanks a lot for joining. Yeah. No. Yeah, I mean, Jake and I, we felt like we had to talk about this game. We've actually played quite a lot of it because, believe it or not, it's pretty

[00:02:29] addicting. So we jumped in with the buds. We've been playing pretty much every night, it feels like. I mean, that's really the hot news. I think we can let's start with the news angle of it.

[00:02:42] And then we can get into our normal analysis that you'll hear from us and we'll give it to Palworld. But the news is this game has sold 6 million copies. Now, that's 6 million copies dropped on Friday. That's 6 million copies on Steam alone.

[00:02:57] This is not including game preview on Game Pass subs, correct? Yes, that does not include Game Pass of any kind. That is purely on Steam and it has surpassed as of today, Counter Strike. Current concurrent player record of like one and a half million

[00:03:21] concurrence of all the random games to go viral to take on Counter Strike and like day after day, it is just knocking people down as it is climbing the ladder. I did not have it in my bingo card that Palworld would be the one to do it.

[00:03:39] I mean, we saw previews for this game. I feel like maybe two summer games Fest ago. Yeah. And you know, you see this trailer on the screen of like and your initial thought is like, oh, this is going to get sued.

[00:03:54] Like this game's never coming out right because it's just straight up Pokemon but with machine guns and you're like, what in the world is this thing? And then it drops and like the fervor was like, oh, this game's actually really fun.

[00:04:08] And then you know, we open it up and like turns out this game actually has incredible like fantastic mechanics and it's super fun and it's got this really addictive gameplay loop. But it's also, you know, the controversy. There's been a few different controversies around it.

[00:04:27] One has been that there's a lot of angry Pokemon fans, which is kind of weird because like it's Pokemon fans getting mad that their games are not as maybe as cool as I like it's a combination of well this game can exist because you just ripped off

[00:04:51] the power world along with like this is sort of an abomination against Pokemon because it's stealing the idea of Pokemon which we hold sacred in our hearts for this like multi-billion dollar company, right? And then the other

[00:05:09] angle of it is like did this company use AI to make power world? Take comment. Dude, I don't even know where to begin. Yeah, the discourse is evolving faster than the thing from the cult classic, the thing right? It's just it's just getting

[00:05:24] out of hand and yeah, it started with the obvious similarities between power world monsters and Pokemon and social media is just just bursting out the seams with all sorts of comparisons and people making all sorts of claims that AI was used to

[00:05:41] sort of generate these things and that's how they sort of rip the Pokemon designs and then people are saying no, they just straight up took the 3D character models and modify them slightly or combine different Pokemon and their threads upon threads upon threads of just these comparisons

[00:05:57] and listen folks to a certain degree we don't need these threads because everybody in their mom knows how much the power world pals look like Pokemon. Yeah, we don't it is so these are Pokemon is a derivative of Pokemon.

[00:06:12] It is so blatant right and I think what's probably the most interesting things to sort of surface from these conversations is a comment from a current Nintendo lawyer and I got this from a Gene Park tweet and then a comment from I think this

[00:06:28] is from a Paul Tassie article from a former head of Nintendo legal defense in the former head will start there of legal defense says I'm really surprised that Nintendo lawyers haven't tackled this yet because some of these things are

[00:06:43] so blatantly taken from Pokemon right whereas the other current Nintendo lawyer said that they played 10 hours of power world looking at the character designs and they think I don't know if there's enough of a case here right and so what it

[00:06:58] really what this does come down to in the legal sense is copyright law and I remember from sorry this is sort of a giant hodgepodge of names and references here but I remember reading from one of the devs at Insomniac talking

[00:07:13] about when they made their sort of high top converse shoes for spider punk they couldn't use converse and so the copyright law said we had to make something identifiable but there needed to be eight points of difference in order to avoid a

[00:07:27] lawsuit and so it's it's interesting to me to think okay when you look at some of these Pokemon designs are there eight points of difference right like could you look at the the one that is so obviously inspired by the Pokemon Lux

[00:07:40] Ray and be like are there actually eight identifiable characteristics here that are different and in the legal sense then it becomes safe right and then it's like okay it's different enough and I wonder if that's kind of what the current Nintendo legal team was looking at now that's

[00:07:57] from a legal perspective and most people online aren't thinking that deeply about it. They see a comparison and they're getting angry and folks yeah it does feel I agree with you. I think it does feel a little scummy that it's like

[00:08:11] dude instead of creating your own art direction here with your own monsters you just took what's super popular changed it enough to bypass the legal you know system and the legal sort of x-ray scan and then you kind of produce

[00:08:25] something but at the end of the day all of this to say that I don't think pow pow world really is a Pokemon like there's monster catching but to me it's so hardly like in gameplay and what the game is trying to accomplish has so

[00:08:42] little in common with Pokemon that I think Pokemon's okay like in terms of what it is as a game art stuff obviously that I don't think it feels very good even if it turns out to be totally legal. Yeah the other component of this

[00:08:59] is the AI component which there's been some fervor around like well this game uses like generative AI so that's it so like let's not play it. I don't think there's any evidence that that is the case and the other thing is is like generative

[00:09:19] AI is not this good like the best they could have done with generative AI is put 111 which is the number of pals like pictures of Pokemon in a thing and then get some concept art but that's like as far as they could and that concept

[00:09:40] art is not going to be that great you're gonna have to like by the time you put in the work to refine the prompt enough to get what you want out of it as like a gaming

[00:09:50] team at the team at a pocket pair I think what I call pocket pocket the team at pocket bear like you might as well just have the artist look at pictures of Pokemon find the eight points of difference to your point and then make

[00:10:04] like another version of it right and that's pretty much what it looks like they did. Yeah. Yeah the AI stuff as of now as of this recording nothing definitive has gone to show that they were using generative AI and like you kind

[00:10:18] of explained I've seen in different threads from different game developers right we're like yeah AI isn't this good quite yet especially with like 3D models and like you're saying with concept art sure maybe and folks this has actually been around I don't know if you've seen there's a

[00:10:32] few websites that kind of do Pokemon mashups and I don't know if Jen AI has really gotten past Pokemon mashups right and even though it's Pokemon mashups we laugh at them because the mashups are so silly right. So where

[00:10:47] does this sort of fit in with everything it's I don't know it's it's kind of outrageous that I think that this game and I outrageous what I really mean by that is like a astonishing it's mind blowing it's it inspires all that the

[00:11:00] fact that this game has gotten so many players so quickly and folks I just in my personal opinion the game doesn't get that many people on being a Pokemon with guns alone you know what I mean because pretty much any anybody

[00:11:17] could put out cute monsters with guns shooting things as a game there's got to be something else of substance to amass that many players to spend 27 bucks on steam to figure out like okay what exactly is the hype with this game. So

[00:11:32] you know there is something else there and we will get into that as we get into the episode but to sort of just like address the stuff up front like this game is a giant mess and I think it illustrates several things

[00:11:44] that illustrates the disconnect between the average gamer and the game developer game developers have way more insight on how this stuff kind of works right whereas gamers we tend to sit back in our arm chairs and assume how a bunch

[00:11:59] of this stuff works and so you know this is one of those moments is like hey let's take a seat and let's let the experts do the talking right and then we learned from the experts exactly what's happening with power

[00:12:10] world and then Cameron pointed this out so I want him to talk about this more because it's his idea but I mean how long is this going to last how long is power world going to last are we going to be talking about this in a

[00:12:23] month. No I don't think we are I think my take on this is that it this is awesome like I think it's the game is super fun has great mechanics it's but and it's obviously it's getting this astounding level of success

[00:12:43] unprecedented mind boggling level of success like no one could have ever predicted this in a million billion years and if you were sitting there saying if you're sitting there saying to yourself that like oh yeah like I knew this was coming. No you did. You didn't.

[00:13:05] That being said like it does beg the question what is it that's pushing this game to the highs that it's going because it's not just to your point Jake the fact that it's Pokemon with guns or the fact that it's like pre

[00:13:18] like not even really reviewing well because it's not getting review scores because it's in early access. And it has like positive sentiment so that's kind of wild in of itself but my take on is like this will die

[00:13:30] down significantly in about a month is my guess and the reason for that is and I think it's going to it'll come back later but the reason for that is because this game is in early access. This is a small ish team.

[00:13:48] There's no content pipeline to speak of at least within the next nine months to a year like there's going to be updates and bug fixes but not like major content drops and even if you're saying to self well they have all

[00:14:02] this money now because they've sold all these copies and steam like yeah that's true but it takes time to ramp up and say okay we're going to go hire 25 more devs and artists now to like work on content for this game.

[00:14:15] That's going to take a year to get that many people in the door and ramped up to be able to work on content. So you're basically looking at like a two two years maybe 18 months if they're really fast before you're going to have any significant type of content

[00:14:32] updates and we know that like no matter how great a game is at launch the bottom line is a game like this if it doesn't keep the content coming like the fervor is just going to die down but the thing is it's already

[00:14:44] had such a high level of success that that doesn't really matter. Yeah but yeah it doesn't really especially for the developers like these guys have just wrapped in you know raked in excuse me 200 million in revenue right in a span of like a couple days and that

[00:15:02] tail is just going to continue to grow and honestly that is probably my biggest problem with this scenario because pocket pair has launched paid early access games in the past and dump them and for example craftopia it took me a while to connect that pocket

[00:15:19] pair also made craftopia craftopia had cool trailers but that game promised a lot and delivered very little and it was janky as heck and that game is never going to see a 1.0 especially with the success of pow world

[00:15:33] and so a part of me is concerned that pocket pair is just going to cash like take this cash pocket it and peace out like you just banked 200 million dollars right and they might even be fully aware of the fact that there's no way

[00:15:49] they can keep up with this like this is a totally unsustainable unprecedented like player base that has suddenly come into the game and folks if you haven't been on the Internet let me remind you that gamers can be kind of mean right and when in six months

[00:16:03] we haven't heard a peep from pocket pair because they're scrambling let's let's give them let's assume that that we've got the best intentions they want to make pow world 1.0 the greatest game that they could possibly make it's been six months in early access

[00:16:16] hardly any content has entered the game only patch only patches here and there people are going to get livid people are going to just peace out and they're going to be done with this game like I just simply do not believe that the model going forward is

[00:16:30] sustainable and I'm not trying to give them a cop out but I think given the track record of this company I wouldn't be surprised if they're like thanks for the memories see you later. Yeah it is a little weirdism with craftopia although

[00:16:47] I don't think that craftopia had anywhere close to the level of success I think it had a moment I think they're on streaming but if I'm smart and I'm the head of the studio my thought right now is when can we get

[00:17:02] the DLC released like paid DLC I want paid DLC for this like now right because if you think you have this massive insurance player base and you're on Game Pass and so as soon as you can get paid DLC out it's like you just you're adding you know

[00:17:22] net revenue on top of that number but that's going to take a long time and I doubt I seriously seriously doubt like I said that they had any inkling of like we need to really rush to get this out it was

[00:17:34] all about putting early access fix the bugs get to one dot over a year and then maybe we'll think about expansions 90 to 120 days after that. I don't know if you can condense that timeline that much now with the money they have maybe

[00:17:51] but they're going to be crunching their brains out to do that if that's the case. Yeah and I mean we're seeing this now with with all the layoffs that are coming from the huge pandemic hiring right where to what degree are these people

[00:18:05] actually going to be able to break the mold and have sustainable you know development with this huge influx of cash. I don't really know you know I think maybe I just have a really overly pessimistic and bleak outlook sort of when it comes to power world

[00:18:21] but a part of me is just like how do you get the reins on something that is just absolutely enormous all of a sudden can you you know I think I have my doubts right and maybe they'll do a Valheim or they'll do

[00:18:35] a No Man's Sky where you just have free content updates for the next two three four years and because you're you just sell the game at full price on steam and you have this incredibly long tail that just sustains your studio and you

[00:18:50] just make all this money over the long haul. That's the best case scenario that's what you hope for. Yeah I think I'm just keeps going it's No Man's Sky style free chunky chunky updates you know over the next two years and yeah.

[00:19:06] Well with that Jake let's get it let's get into it to break down power like like we mentioned Jake and I have been playing a lot of this game we've got you know pretty well flushed out like the systems obviously far from you

[00:19:20] know fully exploring everything this game has to offer but enough so that we wanted to get give or take and do our analysis of it. Jake how are we going to break it down. All right we are going to give power world even

[00:19:31] though it's an early access and we it's only been out for a few days we're going to give it kind of the full treatment here and we're going to analyze it in our four categories. So the first one will be narrative we're

[00:19:41] going to talk about narrative themes essentially what kind of story is being told and how that story is being told next we'll move on to mechanics this is a survival crafting game you know and so we'll be talking about those

[00:19:56] mechanics and sort of what it is that you do how monster catching as mechanic plays into that and then thirdly we'll be talking about gameplay loop and this is obviously a massive component to survival games what is going to propel players forward why players are going

[00:20:12] to keep grinding and keep progressing towards the games and goals and then finally impact on the industry obviously this is really fresh and we've kind of been talking about this already a sort of the preface to this episode but we're going to finish finish here

[00:20:26] sort of talking about what we you know a little bit more about what we think is going to happen in the future of power world and the wake that it is certainly starting to create. Okay power world narrative this is going to be

[00:20:42] the lightest and shortest section because the narrative is essentially non-existent but there's a few kind of sprinkly things that honestly carry like they do a lot of legwork for this narrative even though they're pretty much is done okay there's an opening cutscene when you hit the

[00:21:05] aisle this isn't a spoiler it's the very first thing that happens you see that you have crash landed or you know your ship ran aground on the Powell Island right yeah and then you find this little data pad that has a message I'm trying

[00:21:22] to remember exactly what the message is do you remember Jake it's like the key is in the tree or something what is it? Yeah it's like find the towers find the tree super helpful let me tell you and that's it that's literally the span of this

[00:21:37] narrative yeah and even like the first tutorial boss is like this themed tutorial boss and obviously a lot of this is likely because the game is an early axis so I'm sure a lot of this is going to be flushed

[00:21:50] out by the time you get to 1.0 but this is the early access version so yeah you get to these like first boss and it's this like themed boss and you're like I'm not really sure what the theme like why is there a thing anyway point being

[00:22:03] like that's enough from like I kind of want to see like what's at the other end of the rainbow even though I'm guessing it's not very much no I think there's so little substance to then obviously what they have present and yes I'm going

[00:22:15] to give them extended the courtesy that it's early access but a few things I've got a lot to say here but the few things I'm going to say right now or that I do not think that players frankly care

[00:22:28] if there's a narrative here oh yeah no and I do not anticipate that pocket pair is going to try to make players care and so drawing a few comparisons to craftopia craftopia had this weird sort of mystery

[00:22:44] that they're trying to get at and you are kind of coming in if I remember correctly like another dimension or another world into this planet and you're trying to like this landscape and you're trying to save it that is it is so watered down even from that

[00:22:57] into power that basically you're here and hey let's teach you how to make pow balls and catch these monsters and that's it this is what I really want to say about this narrative and we're going to start with Pokemon when Pokemon first came out

[00:23:13] in the 90s there was this big hubbub and concern that Pokemon was teaching children animal cruelty and that it was about enslavement of animals and animal rights activists were up in arms and they were really really mad and so Pokemon had

[00:23:30] the luxury of being so popular that it created an anime TV series alongside it you've all seen some of these episodes over the course of years this anime has gone to flesh out this world and to to highly moralize what Pokemon is that

[00:23:45] Pokemon are partners that their friends that they're the love and bond between trainer and Pokemon is more important than anything else and that anybody who sort of opposes that lovey-dovey relationship is bad and they're condemned and so over the course of years and

[00:24:02] decades at this point Pokemon has been able to establish and sort of combat the super knee jerk reaction that Pokemon is about like enslavement animal cruelty and dog fighting and then comes in power world and it says everything you were afraid of about

[00:24:18] Pokemon's narrative is really fun and really cool you are here to beat the snot out of all these monsters you're here to capture them and not only will you enslave them but you will put them to work now don't and so a lot of this this narrative

[00:24:35] is not like explicitly present in the game but it's what you draw on from the mechanics and so I just the first 30 minutes of playing power world I could not help but think to myself hey do you remember when Peter put out the anti-Pokemon

[00:24:50] campaign and it was like this immensely gory in disturbing like web browser game do you I do not okay folks look it up it is awful and terrifying right that sounds good it was it was brutal it was a message about anti-animal testing and it has like Pokemon

[00:25:07] breaking out of a lab and they're like bleeding and missing limbs and stuff it was it was immensely graphic but anyway. Pita is seething right now and they are going to come out with some super tone deaf and graphic campaign against power I'm just certain of it because

[00:25:23] power world actually does what everybody thought Pokemon was doing right so in terms of narrative I would say power world just does not care at all about any sort of themes that are you know about what am I trying to say really does not care

[00:25:45] is the narrative is fully in service to the mechanics in the gameplay loop there is no attempt to sort of polish any type of interesting themes about what it is that you're doing in the game they really don't care and this is why I don't think that we're

[00:26:01] going to see much more out of this just more that sort of is like hey by the way Pokemon with guns is super cool shoot them down it's a lot of fun collect those resources get that XP and let's move on to the next boss.

[00:26:17] Yeah this game basically I saw take I don't I don't love let me rephrase this this game proves that nothing really matters except is game fun like that's it at least for 6 million people right I would say yeah it doesn't like

[00:26:38] it doesn't matter it's the contents generated by AI it has like basically no art direction the characters look like they're out of fortnight yeah the world is like copy paste from like Elden Ring and five other games and Pokemon right it's like it's this incoherent mess.

[00:26:58] But this is moving us into the mechanics portion of the conversation the mechanics are so like the core mechanics are so strong and so much fun that it doesn't matter like they just go wild with it they

[00:27:09] don't care I know I mean you can throw a Pokéball to human and catch them I don't yet nothing problematic there right. You can shoot you can catch a tiny penguin bird Pokemon and its special ability is sticking it into a

[00:27:23] rocket launcher and shooting at a people and it literally blows up you can grab your Firefox Pokemon and use it as a flamethrower I mean this is unhinged stuff but it's so like it's so unhinged that it makes it fun where it's just like pure video game there's

[00:27:40] no ethos there's no like let's think through this like what is the back story behind this world and how does it all blend together and what are like the rules there's no rules there's literally no rules it doesn't

[00:27:54] matter and I don't know if that's if that is even the thing that make that is making this game reach like the level of popularity that it has I mean it's certainly social media friendly I can tell you that much like it's popping off because because of the

[00:28:11] wild crazy crap that you can do right. It's just fun to watch it's fun to look at and it's fun to play yeah I absolutely agree I feel like so much when it comes to narrative artistic side of this game is just frankly lacking or simply absent

[00:28:26] but this game I think very much functions like I mentioned earlier the Pokemon mashups in that it's like hey if we mash all the stuff up together we can get some really fun results but talking about mechanics of this game I mean it's a survival

[00:28:40] game this is not a Pokemon like there's no turn based battling sure you can raise your Pokemon yes they have attacks and things like that but you really aren't I feel like aside from the breeding aspect you just kind of catch them and put them to work

[00:28:54] you know I think that's the biggest misconception out of the gate that like the anti and again this is like a small loud internet crowd that's like Pokemon is in danger right it's like no this is way more survival crafting game with Monter monster

[00:29:12] catching elements with some decent looking like modern graphics then it is a Pokemon like right like there's no gym to your point Jake there's no gyms there's no like turn based battles there's none of that yeah Pokemon has nothing to really worry about right

[00:29:30] because this this is not going to dethrone Pokemon in any way shape or form it's not attempting to do what Pokemon is attempting to do it wants to borrow the charm and you know the instantly recognizable nature of Pokemon characters to get you to play

[00:29:47] it right but aside I mean there it's sure there is a monster catching component to this game but it really does not feel like playing Pokemon in any way. No I mean this is through and through survival crafting but it's and survival crafting just to like

[00:30:03] be clear on what that is this is a this is a huge genre of games if you haven't played something like grounded or Valheim or rust or I mean there's there's a million subnautica like it's it's pretty much the same gameplay loop and we can get into

[00:30:22] that in the next section it's pretty much the same gameplay loop where you have you punch tree you get resources from tree you take it back you build the thing that gives you access to the next thing which allows you to go get different kind of

[00:30:36] resource you bring that resource back and then you can build the next thing and then you kind of keep upgrading this tree and it has this addictive quality where as soon as you unlock one thing that then kind of opens up another layer of cool

[00:30:50] stuff that you can get right so in this game that happens to be you know stuff that helps you fight pals helps you like build pokeballs excuse me I want to DMCA by Nintendo pal balls it helps you build better weapons like better armor

[00:31:12] and then that's mixed with so you have all that and that's like pretty deep that's like a relatively deep like pretty flushed out survival crafting component similar to these up maybe not quite as deep as some of these other games but like

[00:31:26] almost right where you're building like huge you have the ability to build these huge beautiful looking villages yeah but then the cool thing is is like when you got and catch pals you bring them back to your base and then they work on

[00:31:39] your base yeah they collect resources for you they will help you build stuff and then you can buy that with like going down to the world catching new pals fighting other ones finding like mini boss pals that are out in the world

[00:31:53] and like using your pals to fight them and just that combination of stuff just is it's just super fun and I think just a comment on like the survival crafting element of it one thing that power world does it's like

[00:32:09] really exceptional to me is I feel like they have stripped out a little bit of the grind that I usually feel yeah and these types of games yeah and this is one of the I think the secret sauces of power world that's maybe not being talked about enough

[00:32:25] that I think we should like dig into on this episode is the survival crafting elements in this game like they just feel just a teeny bit just enough more streamlined and like quicker things just feel like they're moving at a much more

[00:32:41] comfortable pace than I think these other games you know do a lot of the time because I don't know there's just like these huge road there's these pacing roadblocks that happen to the survival crafting games and I haven't felt that a single time in you know the 15

[00:32:58] hours I played this game already which I think is a crazy achievement yeah so I absolutely agree here I'm very good at playing the first fourth or third of a survival crafting game like I'm very good at playing that much of the

[00:33:12] game because and like you said beyond that the grind becomes a little too much I start to get a little impatient I start to even get impatient with like one and a half second animations because I'm like I'm like you know

[00:33:24] this needs to speed up I just need to get 200 of this resource and I'm just like you know what why sit here and get 200 of this resource I don't want to do this you know and then that's when I'll fall off and I agree

[00:33:35] that the chief difference between power world and other games of the same genre are the monsters because the monsters can be used from the get go to accumulate more resources I feel like in most survival crafting games if you were to get little

[00:33:50] minions to kind of do your well and I'm thinking of like like graveyard keeper eventually you can kind of get zombies to get resources for you a lot of that stuff happens very late in the cycle like in the ability up yeah it happens

[00:34:02] super late and so I agree with you Cameron I think that being able to put your pals to work quite early on you know from the get go just allows you to accumulate way more resources up front and these are resources that don't necessarily die off or become

[00:34:19] obsolete very quickly and so because you're able to stockpile quickly and a lot then you can just keep moving forward and those snags that are typically there when it comes to grinding or getting more resources simply just aren't especially because these pals will just like continue

[00:34:37] to work while you're trying to accomplish other things now so yeah I think that's I think that explains why progression in this game feels so smooth otherwise I would say everything else feels like what you would find in other survival games right yeah upgrading

[00:34:55] armor you're getting different types of armor you can eventually you have this whole technology tree you're going to get better weapons you're going to get better gear and that's going to allow you to enter you know different areas with more with higher level pals and

[00:35:09] take them on and get more XP and etc and you can keep progressing right but I just feel like the resource grind like you said has been streamlined so much that it allows you to kind of keep doing the exploration part of the

[00:35:23] survival genre right because it becomes painful right when you're playing a survival game and it's like well I need to go back to my usual haunts get my lumber get my ore you know and then I have to spend half of my play

[00:35:37] session doing that and then I can continue to explore and then I can take on the next boss in here it just like it all is happening simultaneously so much more smoothly it's so that I think that's why it's addicting that's why

[00:35:50] it's easy to put so many hours in it because unlike other games of a genre you can keep going you can just keep going yeah and we're kind of blending these two categories here but I think this is so critical to the conversation

[00:36:03] of this game right like they've they've just nailed this gameplay loop and I think that's again just repeating that phrase that I use that's the secret sauce that's hooking people in super hard yeah that a lot of other games like really struggle to replicate to be

[00:36:19] honest and you said it nicely Jake like the progression just feels smooth it just feels smooth like there's not many interruptions if any there's fast travel points like all across the map yeah so they took that frustration away you unlock mounts like super early yeah super fast

[00:36:36] so they take that frustration away and they're fast right there's no like upgrade pathway and then they unlock you unlock flying mounts like at level 15 which is crazy early usually in games like like this or similar you're waiting till like the end game

[00:36:52] before you can fly around and just do whatever you want and this game kind of just says like whatever just like do it you know we don't care like blow things up fly around and then you have on top of all that which is already

[00:37:05] kind of addicting then you have obviously the monster catching element right where you're going out as the world you have four pals that you can carry with you at any time those four pals will have like passive traits and then they also have just

[00:37:21] like in Pokemon they usually have three to four abilities but it's not turn based like so when you throw them out they will just fight using some sort of rudimentary AI to just you know attack the palace. Yeah, there's no like I think the only

[00:37:40] real strategy to it that we found and this is like when we fought the first boss was the combination of like you doing damage as your person with arrows or spears or whatever and then there's types there's obviously like type bonuses for damage but like

[00:37:57] pulling your pal out of the combat when there's going to be like a big damage phase or whatever and then kind of putting back in that will add a little bit of strategic element to it but other than that it's really

[00:38:09] just you kind of throw them out and like let them go crazy. Yeah, and I think this is why comparisons to Pokemon really need to slow down because it's it's not nearly as engaging or strategic as Pokemon is right and I say that full

[00:38:24] well knowing that oftentimes in Pokemon you just pick your three favorites you over level them and then you squash everybody in you know the main part of the game. I understand that but I feel like in Pal world. Yeah, you collect them you use them

[00:38:41] and I don't know there's really no attachment to them right and like I was getting at earlier when I was talking about the narrative. Pokemon has made such a big effort for you as the player to become attached to your Pokemon as partners right and I think as

[00:38:55] children there's a huge opportunity for emergent narrative in there where it's highly successful right in power world the pals feel like an extension or another tool that you're utilizing in order to just get through a dungeon defeat a boss or whatever it is.

[00:39:10] So again Pokemon fans I think you can kind of sigh here sigh of relief you know because this this isn't at all approximating what Pokemon is trying to accomplish and in addition to sort of gameplay loop I would say other things that make exploration feel like

[00:39:26] you are doing more and more and progressing more and more as one as we've established very clearly right is that exploration is really opened up to you right cameras talked about getting mounts and air air mounts really quickly there and as you get to new areas or

[00:39:41] new pals you know they don't really hold back when it when it comes to just introducing the new pals into the world. There are dungeons now the dungeons are feel very early access and I think this is where the game feels most early access if

[00:39:57] you kind of go exploring into different caves into different dungeons into different mini bosses it just feels like it's a fresh coat of paint on something you've already seen before right and so while there's incentive to do so because you get XP and

[00:40:11] there's a chance that there's a brand new pal in there for you to catch or something along those lines resources etc. I don't think that's really the most engaging part of the game I do think the gameplay loop as we've said is so successful

[00:40:25] because it removes so many barriers for you to just keep moving forward in the game accessing new areas and being able to traverse and you know get to more and more of the map in Pal world. We've already sort of been discussing the gameplay loop a

[00:40:44] lot we've kind of melted these two categories it's hard to separate them when it comes to this type of game. It's like very core to the experience I mean it is the entirety of the experience right like we said like there's no narrative really to follow.

[00:40:58] It's really just progressing your it's really just seeing the numbers go up. Gearing out your guys making your base bigger and then fighting bosses right some of the things I'll mention is like there are procedural mini dungeons across the map which have sort of a

[00:41:19] weird mix of like caves mixed with like medieval design like the art direction is really strange because there's no there's no the art direction this game is just like non existence. No concurrency like there's no coherency. There's these medieval castles and Elden Ring like Church of

[00:41:37] America like across the map to me that are like don't get me started those are Elden Ring as the other I think Elden Ring maybe fans should be maybe even more upset than the Pokemon fans maybe you know I kind of I kind of agree right

[00:41:53] I think it's obvious that the creatures are heavily borrowing or heavily inspired by Pokemon just to phrase it that way but the world that you're in is absolutely trying to copy the what Elden Ring offered. Yeah so anyway like ultimately so you have that whole loop

[00:42:11] but then you have six towers spread out across the game world and each of those towers holds a boss that you go and fight and then something happens and I honestly don't know what happens and even if I did I wouldn't spoil it.

[00:42:25] I mean does the game gives you no reason to believe that you should care you know I don't know. Yeah other than that that one line of dialogue in the beginning or not even dialogue that one line of text in the meeting and that's

[00:42:37] like the towers hold the key. Yeah you're like okay cool. Yeah so who knows what it's going to unlock. I'm sure somebody's beaten it by now. Anyways it's yeah it's a lot of these survival crafting games have this thing. It's like what six bosses or

[00:42:56] all of them have this similar gameplay loop just the difference here is like you're doing it all with the pals. Obviously I mentioned the mini dungeons and then there's just random humanoids on the map with machine guns. Not really sure where those guys come from at all.

[00:43:11] There's no really explanation of that but they're just there and then every so often your base will get rated. Oh yeah and every single time we've been rated it's actually been like different combinations. So we had one where we had one where it was like

[00:43:28] just normal sort of Merc army dudes coming in and then we had one Jake you weren't here for this but we had the fangirls are invading. What? And it was a bunch of pals and this pal has been on social media because it has a really

[00:43:45] like risky description in the pal deck but it's the dragon like with a heart. Oh yeah yeah yeah okay I've seen this and it says the fangirls are going crazy and they're coming to your base and like six of these guys show up to

[00:44:01] like catch your base on fire. Anyway super random totally nonsensical doesn't make any sense. Oh yeah here we go I've got it in Pal world the 69th and thank you this is jiffery I guess on Twitter whatever. Yes and it happens to be pal 69 yeah the 69th deck

[00:44:18] entry is low vendor like lavender but love love ander maybe a tall lizard like pal with a carnal desire to mate they eventually moved on from pals into humans like excuse me like dude what this makes no whatever we're just going to leave it and you know I'm

[00:44:36] sure there's all sorts of rule 34 already created on the Internet about that. There's a whole subreddit with all the mystery yeah but yeah no I think this is there's nothing again there's nothing new here but it doesn't matter I think that's the whole point in

[00:44:54] this conversation I think that we're trying to get across is like this is all derivative stolen remixed traded whatever you want to call it like but it doesn't matter because it's fun like it literally isn't this is like and this is getting back to I don't

[00:45:10] really know why this game has popped off as hard as it has I honestly don't know some people are saying like oh it's because and we could talk about this when we talk about impact on the industry it's because there's this ravenous demand for a modern

[00:45:21] gen Pokemon open world type thing I don't even know if that's the case I mean maybe maybe maybe that's when people look at this they think like oh my gosh this is like the Pokemon of my dreams and in some moments it sort of is like

[00:45:37] it sort of does fulfill that fantasy like I'm thinking back to when we're perusing and we all had our pals out and we're like running through a dungeon and that was a really cool experience and I was like man what if Pokemon did this

[00:45:49] and they have it and maybe and so maybe that is the reason I still am not sure though I mean it has to be part of it but I can't be everything I don't know. Yeah, I think we are kind of moving to impact on the industry

[00:46:03] our final category and to me I think that's part of it but if you're a lapsed Pokemon fan looking for a more interesting Pokemon game you've been conned because Pal world isn't it and I agree with you that there are those moments in the dungeon where it's like

[00:46:21] hey you're rolling as a squad and you got your pals with you and that that feels cool because you're trying to accomplish something together in this dungeon whether it's take on one these random factions that are totally unexplained or whatever it is in the game

[00:46:34] there are glimpses of that but folks you don't need to go very hard in social media to find tons of other Pokemon likes that are much truer to the Pokemon formula that are just simply doing it better you know what I mean I just don't think that

[00:46:50] power world is the game for you if you're a lapsed Pokemon fan sort of trying to trying to find your love of Pokemon again. I do think that power world is what when you were 12 and you thought a cool adult gritty Pokemon game would be

[00:47:07] like this is definitely I think a kid's fantasy of one adult Pokemon game would look like and it's not Pokemon like at all. I would tell Pokemon fans also to like make sure you played Legends Archeus because yes I do think Legends Archeus is maybe the closest thing

[00:47:27] that they've gotten to like a breath of the wild moment like it wasn't quite there still but I liked Legends Archeus a lot more than I actually liked Skrull and Violet now it goes away from like the gym stomping journey that you normally do in these

[00:47:44] games right and kind of loses some of that but that game offers I think a lot of maybe what you're looking for it's just not an Unreal Engine 5 and it doesn't run at 60 frames okay so maybe that's what we want we want that super high 4k

[00:48:02] you know mega experience which admittedly would be pretty freaking cool if they'd like admittedly it would be but I just don't know if Game Freaks ever gonna do it because they don't have to yeah and I think that probably the closest like I agree with you

[00:48:17] I also agree Pokemon Legends Archeus is definitely one to go for but also I'd say Temtem dude Temtem is actually an MMO right like and you actually do run into people and like real world people and you can do things together and what I love about Temtem

[00:48:35] a good friend of ours and in front of the podcast Robzor right I played a fairly decent chunk of Temtem with him and it's a lot of fun to just like team up with somebody and go through a story and deal with nuanced narrative and interesting themes

[00:48:49] in a world that feels fully constructed and flushed out like Temtem has that right and this is kind of why despite Powell worlds astonishing success I agree with Cameron and the Powell world is cotton candy it looks it looks interesting you take a bite

[00:49:08] you get the sharp sweetness and then it dissolves instantly like I just simply don't think Powell world has the legs to last unlike these other games that really have a lot of meat on their bones right so like like Cameron when he's saying like all this stuff

[00:49:24] on an addition to really addicting survival mechanics don't matter they don't matter if you want a good time right and I and I don't I'm not speaking or covering up what Cameron said but I wanted I want us to draw attention to a game

[00:49:36] that Cameron and I both loved that we always advocate for and that's the game grounded which is another survival crafting game and it's kind of like imagine if this kind of it almost aches to say this Powell world I think would be an incredible game if it decided

[00:49:51] hey all these other things that we've kind of pushed to the side that we've replaced with like recycled and very obviously inspired or borrowed pieces if we actually came up with our own creativity and all those aspects we might have something that's a solid as grounded

[00:50:05] and grounded is a wonderful example of a survival crafting game that managed to have a compelling narrative right a compelling world and you know a good progression scheme so I just I'm just to repeat myself power to me is the cotton candy experience in my hope

[00:50:23] when it comes to impact on the industry is all these people who find out that power world isn't a Pokémon like but it's actually a survival game that they'll be like what other games are there that are like this and that they'll turn to

[00:50:35] a bunch of these survival games that have autonomy on the bones yeah it's interesting let's move into the impact on the industry because I do think I mean look the X factor and I just brought it up

[00:50:53] the X factors obviously the pals right like the monster catching element and having the pals right that's that's the X factor to Jake's point is grounded a better survival crafting game with like a more flushed out complete experience I absolutely think it is

[00:51:12] and I do actually and I think it's probably a better game probably but isn't a more fun game that's a more interesting question I don't know and how fun can be defined in many ways right and to your point Jake

[00:51:29] this game is very much like I'm eating a box of cookies and they taste really good and I'm like eating a lot of them really fast am I going to feel I'm gonna have to just stop suddenly because I feel super sick

[00:51:44] whereas is grounded like a more complete meal where I'm like super satisfied and really enjoying it but a sort of like last longer and kind of stays with me because it's much more high quality ingredients I don't know that's sort of the comparison I'm

[00:51:57] I'm like the analogy I'm making in my head I don't know if that's the right one but thinking about like the impact of power this is this is going to be the biggest story probably of the year I would imagine I mean we're

[00:52:10] man we're January 23 we're in the very beginning of the year holy crap yeah this this game though is going to this is going to be the one of the most impactful games on the industry probably that we've had in a long time oh I absolutely agree with you

[00:52:31] just one thought about the cookies versus meal analogy that you brought up I think it's a good analogy honestly sometimes you just want to eat a box of cookies sometimes when I hop on to play video games at night I just want to shoot aliens in the head

[00:52:43] you know and and I don't think there's anything wrong with having that desire in a game right and sometimes I want to really really solid meal and I'm getting you know this is why there are thousands and thousands of different games and different gaming interests etc. etc. right

[00:52:59] like you said fun suddenly becomes extremely subjective when it comes to who wants to play what game and why right but yeah getting on to this idea of how impactful this game is my gosh we are going to see in immense amount of shoddily hastily thrown together power

[00:53:18] oh that are going to totally miss the point that are going to think hey I should make a survival game with a bunch of really flamboyant you know monsters and people millions in droves are going to come and play my game

[00:53:34] and they're going to get to your game and then they're going to realize that you wanted them to stick around and buy a bunch of micro transactions and so the grind in your game is just awful and they're going to leave you know what I mean like

[00:53:45] I think a lot of this will game will be highly impactful but I think a lot of game developers are going to take the absolute wrong lessons from power world and try to create a survival game and just expect there to be this huge

[00:53:57] viral hit and probably not even just because of power world because when you look at like steam viral hits most of them are survival in nature v rising Valheim or two that come to mind rust right

[00:54:09] they have this is definitely a genre that has viral power but I just think that people are going to just do even worse than power world and just come up with the craziest combinations and assume that they're going to stick the landing.

[00:54:25] Yeah, it sort of reminds me of minecraft in a way. I mean minecraft maybe started this whole saga. I'm not sure what you point to as like the apex of the survival crafting genre. I mean, I guess it's minecraft probably probably yeah.

[00:54:44] But yeah, I mean that I think you're right. I mean this is always good. This is inevitable somebody they're going to chase the trends because that's what game companies do and then they chase someone and

[00:54:53] it takes them too long to make their thing and then the trends over. Yeah, which has happened to so many different games in the past like couple years and is going to continue to happen. Yeah, I mean this it the wild level of success. Obviously they're

[00:55:11] going to see it. I think one thing that it doesn't upset me about power world but it sort of makes me a bit disappointed is that so many people are going to play this because it just has wonky clips on tiktok and it has weird

[00:55:27] and it has basically like Pokemon lookalikes in it. But they're in the meanwhile, they're not going to play games like grounded and enshrouded and Valheim that I think arguably probably are better like survival crafting games and maybe even offer like better more fulfilling experiences over the long term

[00:55:49] right like again just just caveatting that right. I think short this isn't to say that power world is a very fun game like it's like it is a good game but that can have so many different meanings

[00:56:02] and definitions and it's just it's hard to like box this one in especially with like the amount and the variety and the different types of games like especially Jake and I play like we play these sort of wide variety of experiences. A game like power world is

[00:56:18] typically like not in my repertoire but because it's so fun and the mechanics are so like solid it's just you know it's like hitting the spot now will that go away super quick yeah but it doesn't that doesn't really matter and so because of that this is going

[00:56:32] to have a huge impact companies are going to be talking about this game for a long time trying to replicate its success. Yeah, yeah me being optimistic I've been relatively pessimistic and I think overall I am pessimistic towards power world

[00:56:48] even though I will say that obviously the core gameplay loop in the mechanics are fun they're generally fun and I do think that there was a lot of thought going into sort of designing those mechanics and gameplay loop right but yeah I think my

[00:57:02] biggest fears would be we just see this huge wave of games trying to replicate what power world was able to accomplish miraculously they're not going to be super exciting games and it's going to be bunch of studios with products that ultimately flop and I let's see.

[00:57:21] Jake let me ask this question to prompt you on this because I think you have the best probably take on this. Oh, thank you the biggest question when it comes to impact on the industry and power world is does does this do

[00:57:33] anything does this change anything for Nintendo and Game Freak and the Pokemon franchise. The gaming franchise. No, I actually don't think so and I don't I don't think so because of what I've seen when it comes to legal stuff that's

[00:57:52] been happening if Nintendo hasn't pushed a legal case towards power world already which we've seen them you predicted this actually in a group chat we're in less than 24 hours Nintendo lawyers went after the guy who modded Pokemon into power world.

[00:58:06] Yeah, no question the Nintendo legal team isn't isn't just sleeping during the release of power world. No, they're very attentive and they're seeing where they can strike because folks it's Nintendo right. And so the fact to me that like within a week they haven't

[00:58:23] issued any like huge case against power world makes me think that Pokemon is not actually worried about this game and if Pokemon and Game Freak and Game Freak are not worried about power world then I don't think the average consumer of Pokemon games should be worried either.

[00:58:41] I don't think Pokemon is going to go away. I don't think it's going to change. I don't even think Pokemon is going to try to merge you know break break into the survival genre after seeing power

[00:58:51] world and say oh look well we can do this and we'll do it legit with real Pokemon you know I think that that game would sell Bukubaks right like it would sell like a ton of money but like oh my gosh that was it would sell

[00:59:03] incredibly well but they're not going to do that because they have a formula that's tried and true and that functions right. If you're being honest with yourself as a Pokemon fan though when don't we don't doesn't every Pokemon fan

[00:59:15] including me don't we want like the 4k 60 frames multiplayer Pokemon game with like incredible fidelity and is don't we want that like we want that yeah right I think so I think we want that I think if people if I think

[00:59:33] that if you think people are finding that in power world then you're mistaken it simply isn't there right now. It's not there but it again I go back to that question of it definitely is not there you're not going to find it

[00:59:47] but is that is but it's that what's getting people to jump into this game is just the dream is that what it is. I'm not sure but I feel like it has to be part of it because like I don't know that there's another explanation

[00:59:59] it's part of it but yeah could 6 million people be like let's play power world because dude I don't know if somehow Nintendo got that data and was like oh 6 million people started to play this game that is a total ripoff of our

[01:00:13] you know creations because they want us to make a better game you would you would hope that somebody would make came over and then 10 no game freak now I think part of Nintendo game freaks problem is sort of their weird relationship that they have with the Pokemon company

[01:00:28] and like how much money and how much stakes and ownership they all have in the Pokemon IP and franchise those poor game freak employees are also being worked to the bone to try to pump out Pokemon games to sort of

[01:00:39] meet these outrageous demands which I think is in part why Scarlet and Violet just simply do not have the polish that they needed to in should have had upon release. I mean is 6 million copies. Let me look this up real quick Scarlett and Violet.

[01:00:55] Oh is it a flash in the pan compared to Pokemon sale is that we mean I mean. Okay so power out is only on day like day five so we have to grant so it's trending towards insane unit sales but Nintendo sold Pokemon Scarlet Violet sold 23 million

[01:01:19] units just on switch. Then which isn't that's you know that's not that's that game runs like a piece of paper like it is trash performance and it literally doesn't matter. So I mean why do people buy Pokemon games right. It's a highly nostalgic and long established franchise

[01:01:45] right it works for our family because I played Pokemon as a kid and now my kids play Pokemon and who's the one that's buying the games in the family so it's me you know so they've got sort of that generational demographic nailed down right I would say

[01:01:59] that's an advantage Pokemon has over something like power world. So why are we buying this game we it's because I'm coming back to this idea because Pokemon has made tireless efforts to to focus on the friendship love and partnership between you and your Pokemon it is

[01:02:17] super lovey-dovey it is a warm hug it is nice and cuddly you're not supposed to think about it much beyond that right narratively but it does elicit those feelings when you're playing that game and so yeah I don't I I honestly don't think Nintendo Game Freak

[01:02:32] the Pokemon company are that word with power world. But what I would like to see is that the next iteration of Pokemon Legends which hasn't been announced or anything it's just something that fans have been asking for does start to sort of venture

[01:02:51] into this more serious territory right where it sort of goes beyond this lovey-dovey these are my best friends these are my partners look at all the things that we've accomplished together we've gone through so many trials and gym battles and difficulty together and look at us come out

[01:03:05] on top I do think that that really is the opportunity that Nintendo the Pokemon company Game Freak have to do something a little more interesting with a little more depth to let those roots grow a little deeper right in terms

[01:03:17] of what the product can be and I really hope that delivers and this this is one of those things that makes me think that if a switch to gets announced recently please announce two different types of Pokemon games the mainline game

[01:03:32] that's going to get you millions upon millions in dollars and then some other game that is starting to pull that you know older demographic in those that lapsed Pokemon fan back in and like really taste something interesting that the Pokemon kitchen can offer.

[01:03:50] Yeah, I I think everybody wants that everybody wants Pokemon to have a breath of the wild moment. I know that's like kind of cliche to say that at this point but I think it's true. I think everybody wants that so who knows if Nintendo will ever do it.

[01:04:03] They're weird Game Freaks weird. They don't care they're raking in the cash so I'm sure it'll probably never happen but that's why we have power world to satisfy that means why we have power world in the interim. Right. Yeah, I'm trying to think other things impact on

[01:04:19] the industry. I just think that still I've been saying this for years if you are a very long time listener of the podcast every time something Pokemon comes up I say this Pokemon the Pokemon companies biggest challengers are coming from the indie scene.

[01:04:35] It's coming from games like Temtem Monster Sanctuary cassette Beasts Coromon. There's a developer that I really enjoy that their name is Sean Young and they released a game called Littlewood. They're working on sort of a monster collection game even like Slime Rancher right which is not

[01:04:52] exactly a Pokemon like I do think it's those companies that are still going to be taking Pokemon as as a game and as an IP to task and they're pushing in directions that Pokemon fans really like to see and so but then

[01:05:07] again we come back to the Pokemon companies and Behemoth man they're giant out there and do you think they really care right? I mean cassette Beasts a game that we love we've done an episode on it we interviewed Jay from a fantastic game this is our pitch

[01:05:21] this is my pitch go buy and play cassette Beasts this is a game that I think they recently announced that they sold 375,000 copies which is an awesome success and hats off to you guys over there who made that like that is to Bitten Studio awesome job

[01:05:37] congratulations the Pokemon company I want them to look at cassette Beasts and take what that game can offer and think about okay how can we revamp Pokemon? How can we make a look different play different etc but at the same time the Pokemon

[01:05:51] company loves money and they love numbers into them 375,000 isn't enough to make them push the needle. Six million might be though. Six million accounting that's it that's Six million accounting. Dude to be totally frank to be totally frank with Cameron with everybody listening

[01:06:10] when it was first announced that Power World had crossed like two million players in 24 hours or something. I was like are there bots buying this game because to me I was like that growth is unprecedented for a game like this

[01:06:24] but you know I put my conspiracy theory tinfoil hat aside and let's just a lot of players. I think they're just going to get a ton of players. Well ladies and gentlemen, this has been our episode on Power World breaking that down.

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