The 3DO Experience - Episode 20: 3DO Controllers Were Weird!

[00:00:00] Every week's experience there was a power of the Panasonic wheel 3DO system. Obviously.

[00:00:37] Hello everybody and welcome back to the 3DO Experience, The 3DO Retrospective podcast where we talk about the 3DO console, the company behind it and everything in between. I'm Bill and this is Thrak. Hey, dude. Thrak.

[00:00:47] Hello Bill, Happy New Year, Happy New Year audience. I'm doing okay. This morning I fucked up my elbow because you ever do that thing where you go to sit down on the toilet.

[00:01:03] You think the seats there and the seat isn't there. It's just the bowl and you try to catch yourself. And then as I was catching myself my elbow smacked the kitchen sink, which is right next to the toilet.

[00:01:14] And it's better than it was but it's still hurts. But other than that, I'm doing okay. Doing alright. How are you Bill? You have an IDCENT 24 so far. We're not very far in but how's it hanging?

[00:01:28] That's going fine. I got very drunk and you're as if Alex was an impressed and she just wanted to go to bed. You try to impress her by getting drunk? No, I wasn't trying to impress her. She just wasn't impressed by my like an

[00:01:43] session and again. It's like it's do vividly wasted laughing at game grumps or than I should have because we were just basically we decided not to do anything

[00:01:56] And we just hung out and watched a crappy movies and then once we ran out of crappy movies, we just put on YouTube and game grumps ended up being what we watched. And I thought it was game grumps, new game grumps, whatever we talking.

[00:02:08] Yeah, it was newer. They were playing some indie game called like Super Bunnyman and I thought they were playing through was hilarious. I'm not sure if Alex did or not but I thought it was great.

[00:02:19] So I feel like game grumps haven't been funny in a long time. I don't know. Just I try to rewatch it or like love the older stuff still hits, right?

[00:02:30] Especially like the early Dan Arrestum. But just now I don't know, it just it feels too much like a business if that makes any sense. Like it just I don't know, man.

[00:02:41] The game they were playing is like one of those like indie games that's like ultra frustrating like you're going to die a lot.

[00:02:46] So I was the shit that was happening to them in the game. I think like brought the funny out in them again because they'd be like points for like they were just getting exasperated trying to get through the level like they'd be like dude grid and one of them would just fuck up and die and they'd be like great.

[00:03:00] Thanks Dan or like thanks Aaron. I mean sometimes it's dependent on the game that they're playing for sure. Yeah, but it's like how many times would they done wheel of fortune? They keep milking that cow.

[00:03:13] You know as somebody who plays a lot of wheel of fortune games myself it feels like they've kind of milked the cow on that one you know like it's it's done.

[00:03:23] And then and then they do videos of them watching themselves or watching populations of that's like no, no. I don't want to see that so but I don't yeah, I don't really watch them. I only watch John Tron anymore.

[00:03:37] You know, I don't know overwatch John Tron like period so yeah, I mean the whole controversy with him a few years ago was rough and I'm not getting into that. But you know, it just it is what it is. What is flex and a seal videos are funny.

[00:03:54] See my favorite one of my favorite jokes is just because of all the recent events it was a picture of one of the normal boots panels and it was like peanut butter gamer.

[00:04:04] Progerid the completionist and then John Tron and it was just like it's like it's like a PBG has no idea what he's surrounded by right now. I love PBG. That man's still going. He just had a kid like he's just like super wholesome and just he is.

[00:04:22] I don't know the dumbest shit. This thing it's like I've never been a fan of PBG. I just I don't find his content on here engaging in anyway, but he seems like a really really nice sweet guy.

[00:04:35] So I'll give him that even though I just basically said his content is trash which I mean it is what it is. He's like such a lovely guy. He's like, there's going to be weird comparison. He's like he honoured Reeves.

[00:04:46] He's just kind of coasting on the fact that he's a good guy. The who cares what he does isn't really that good. I say that as I've been playing more of cyberpunk and the more I play if I'm like, yeah, he honoured Reeves is not a good actor.

[00:04:59] Like not at all like just so bad but he has such a presence about him that I think it's okay. Yeah. Now that's basically how my new years went.

[00:05:13] I recently, I think I might have alluded to it the last episode but I am recently acquired a 3D, another 3D, I know I have an FC 10 as well. Because American or Japanese.

[00:05:27] It's actually an American one. I was surprised when it came in because I was expecting to be an import. Yeah. Because my poor FC one, the disk drive has just been going for a while now and it's finally.

[00:05:39] It's getting to the point now where just a lot of it. Any game with how a lot of full motion video just isn't going to happen. Like it can't play. It refused to play crashing burn.

[00:05:50] Like can't play like any, it gets struggles to get through the opening cutscene. Just a whole bunch of stuff like that. And I was like, no, so I'm like, I'm going to retire this guy in the minimal use because there's certain games like road rash.

[00:06:03] I need an FC one to get the full effect with. But I decided to retire that one to special occasions and I got an FC 10 and it works perfectly.

[00:06:14] Yeah, even though the seller gave me a Sega Genesis controller with it, which I still thought was kind of funny. Does that work? No, but it has the same port so maybe he just grabbed it thinking it was a 3D controller and said,

[00:06:28] Did you try to plug in it in? Yeah, I didn't work. I was like, I was like, that's weird. And then I plugged it into a Genesis network so I was like, it was some weird third party Genesis control. They kind of looked like a 3D controller.

[00:06:41] Now what would be amazing is if you plugged in a Atari 20 600 controller and do a 3D, an at work? Yeah. That would be amazing. I also got a 78 hundred recently too.

[00:06:52] And the guy who bought it from forgot to give me the controller, but I wasn't too upset because I was like, I'm just going to use a Genesis controller anyways. Or you could try to hunt down that European one.

[00:07:02] That's my goal for eventually because I really don't care that much about the joystick because the 7800 joystick is horrendous, but Yeah, well, in plus the games that it hasn't really made for those, there are more D-pad's file games.

[00:07:16] Yeah, you know, at one point I downloaded the ROM set for the 7800 and played it on my computer. And kind of went through a good chunk of the games and I was like, Yeah, it is what it is.

[00:07:30] I feel like if it came out when it was supposed to come out, it wouldn't have been a hit, but after the NES and no one cared. Exactly. Though Ninja golf is pretty great. That is a solid game.

[00:07:42] And in fact, I believe that's on the Atari 50th anniversary collection thing. I think it is. Yeah, because what I like about that collection is it doesn't just do 2600, like just about every other Atari compilation. It does everything, even get jackware games and I love that.

[00:07:58] That's way to play Atari cards. I've played more of Atari cards than like, then I dare to mention, but it's a really good game. So I don't care. But yeah, good good stuff with that. I don't think I would ever bother getting an Atari 7800.

[00:08:16] I think if there was one retro console that I'd go out of my way to buy and collect everything. It'd probably be the master system. That's a good one. Yeah, I thought about it because you either can take Sega fanboy.

[00:08:30] So another console that the best way to use it is a Genesis controller. Oh, probably. And I have a bunch of Genesis controllers already. The master system controller is bad. They in a lot of ways. It's okay. The D-D-Lad is very mad.

[00:08:48] Yeah, but it's not as good as like an NES controller. But for all the NES clone controllers, it's not the worst one. No, it's more just kind of like the fact that the Genesis controller exists. Just retroactively makes it worse.

[00:09:04] Yeah, I mean, I think the worst thing the master system does is it's pods button is on the console. Yeah, that's the worst. That's probably the worst thing because they're like quite a lot of related. You have to program that and that's weird.

[00:09:17] Yeah, my favorite part of that is like the power based converter for the Genesis. Also has a start button, a positive not just because they had to for like compatibility. He's sick. Yeah, weird, weird choice but you know, is what it is.

[00:09:32] So speaking of weird choices, what's the topic for today, Bill? Well, before we get into that, I actually wanted to, we did a poll recently that I think we should have announced before we had. Oh yes. Yes, we do.

[00:09:47] So despite, so before I get into that, for our last episode, we'd mentioned that we wanted to have the fans pick our next game. We were going to play. So we gave a couple options this time around. Our choices. Yeah, our choices for the poll were.

[00:10:05] The incredible machine. Um, icebreaker. And then for laws, I threw in Shanghai triple threat. Yeah, fuck you air. Fuck you air. And despite Aaron's best efforts, I'm glad Tom is dead. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. tragic. All right, me.

[00:10:29] Um, but aside from that, despite a valiant sudden comeback from the incredible machine towards the end of their vote, icebreaker was the clear favorite from start to finish on this one. So for next week, we will be looking icebreaker and I have a couple of orders.

[00:10:46] Hopefully it'll be here by then. I already have my copy. I'm showing the camera because we're going to try to do video sometime in the future. Probably won't be this one, but we'll try in the future. I even bought a nice webcam for it.

[00:11:00] But yeah, as you, the front cover says blast them, smash them, trick them. You will loan can destroy all pyramids. You know, it's probably, you're probably destroying pyramid schemes with this game, I think. So you're doing, so you're doing a good service for the community.

[00:11:15] Um, I have played a fair amount of this game already. So I won't have to do too much research, but it'll be nice to actually sit down and play it more properly. So thank you everyone who voted. We greatly appreciate it.

[00:11:30] We, we thankfully didn't have to review a fucking Majon game and try to make that an hour. So hopefully there'll be enough material to talk about icebreaker. I imagine the people who voted on that were probably like the other 3DO content creators out there because

[00:11:46] Icebreaker is one of those more kind of notable 3DO games. That was a guess. It's one of the ones that you always see in the confulations of like gameplay for the castle. Yeah, because it looks cool.

[00:11:58] You know, I really wanted to get a long box for it, but it was too expensive. So I just wanted the jewel case. Yeah, same.

[00:12:06] And having the jewel case helps because you know, then because it has it on the back and nice like a diagram of all the different colors and everything. But we'll, we'll go into that next week everybody.

[00:12:17] I did also, if while I was purchasing that, I also found a long box copy of the incredible machines. So that will also be coming in eventually and we'll probably be covering that one shortly at some point as well. There it is. Look at that beat.

[00:12:35] Oh yeah, yeah, I have a lot of things to say about the incredible machine, but you guys didn't vote on it. So I'm not saying a word. Yeah, we'll get to it eventually.

[00:12:45] But yeah, for this episode though, we won't be covering a game per se for the console. Instead we're going to be talking about the 3DO's most interesting feature in the fact that

[00:12:59] as we've stated before, the 3DO was not standard in any way imaginable and you could pretty much make whatever you wanted for it. So the 3DO has a lot of different controllers that were available for it and There's a lot to say about them.

[00:13:17] Let's just say yes there is. So I don't, I kind of left this up to you to like kind of go through what controllers you wanted to discuss. I kind of found a bunch just by browsing the web that I felt like would be interesting to talk about.

[00:13:34] So I don't know if you wanted to like try like back and forth maybe or like just kind of go through some of the notable ones. Well, I think we can start with well the one I have actual experience with which is the standard Panasonic FZ10 controller that.

[00:13:49] Came with mine I have yet to buy another 3DO controller. So the basic 3DO controller that comes with the system is on on the surface quite simple really it's it's essentially a Sega Genesis controller with some SNES.

[00:14:10] Stuff on top and it was like the bastard love child of a super Nintendo and Genesis controller.

[00:14:16] In a weird way because it goes for that kind of curved look that like the Sega Genesis controller has it has the A B and C buttons kind of lined up in a line.

[00:14:26] Weirdly enough I find the buttons here more comfortable probably because they're smaller so you don't have to hop your thumb around and then the B button right in the middle has a nice divot in the center.

[00:14:37] So you can kind of keep track like if you've ever noticed with computer keyboards. J and F have that little that little raised line so you know where your hand should be which is a very cute.

[00:14:49] You know you got your D pad over here, which is it's no Sega Genesis D pad I can safely say that that thing is a thing of beauty this thing is okay nice thing I could say about it you have the P and X buttons down here.

[00:15:04] But on this version of the controller they're little rubber dots for some reason and you know they work like like TV remote buttons essentially and then you have L and R on the top.

[00:15:15] But you're okay but some games don't even really use them, but probably the most unique thing about the 3D O controller is this other little port that is on top of the controller.

[00:15:27] They see it in your thinking what the hell is that so the original 3D O or all models of the 3D O only have one controller port.

[00:15:34] I'm still not sure why they decided to do that, so they give you the second controller port on the on the controller so you can plug it in and then you can sort of daisy chain.

[00:15:45] But if I could do this correctly you can then like daisy chain all your controllers together which is up to 16 controllers I've heard.

[00:15:54] Yeah and it's like it seems like something that was like somebody threw that out in the board room is like that's an idea and it is an idea but I feel like it just it's a weird idea that they only pursued to give it something different because there's really no reason for it.

[00:16:14] You know what I mean? My theory is it was either a just a them trying to be innovative for no reason or it was part of the system's universal like standard design where they didn't want.

[00:16:27] They wanted every system despite manufacturer to be basically the same so they just kind of standardized it as the one controller port per console.

[00:16:36] And then they their way of getting around that was the daisy chain method in that that way like no matter what console you had like everything would still be compatible in a sense. But they could have standardized two controller ports.

[00:16:49] Yeah I feel like they were like you might also been a cost cutting method for all we know. Maybe because what old game console doesn't have two controller ports. Like only a story 2600 has two controller ports on it.

[00:17:04] The only other notable console I can think of off the top of my head is the turbo graphics 16 which also only had one controller port.

[00:17:11] You had to buy you would have to buy a what is essentially an early version of like the switch like game cube the the Wii U game cube controller adapter where you essentially plug it in it would give you like five slots.

[00:17:24] I don't know what's kind of the one not control or like the PlayStation multi tab. Yeah it was essentially you had to hear the NES 4 score.

[00:17:32] Yep or the Genesis have one as well basically it was just an adapter to get around the one controller port on the console. Yeah because very few games had more than two player multiplayer at that time. Yes.

[00:17:46] One fun quirk though about the DZ shaming is like I think we alluded to this in previous episodes but like it leads to some funny situations where like say you're playing a multiplayer game and you're player one and say player two pisses you off or something.

[00:18:02] You can just unplug him. Yeah. And in the process also screw over players 3, 4, 5. Up to 16. Yeah it just seems like just yeah it's like it's trying to be efficient and give it like a quirk.

[00:18:18] But people just always point to and think that's weird why they do that you know I'm sure it works just fine but.

[00:18:26] Yeah so my experience I've only played up to two players but like it works fine it's amazing that the 3D has enough power to power that many controllers out of one port. Yeah.

[00:18:38] Another thing that's interesting about the standard 3D O controller is it's the same controller that was also released for the FC one minus the headphone jack has been removed probably a cost saving measure.

[00:18:52] Oh yeah forgot the original had a headphone jack and I believe the P and X are starting to select were like little like lines like the NES controllers were.

[00:19:01] Yeah it was like that um and what was funny about the headphone jack was it didn't actually mute the game so you'd have to mute the TV separately to use the headphones properly.

[00:19:12] So weird like I've never used the headphone jack on the Sega Genesis for example like the model one. I remember as a kid thinking that was a weird feature to have but nowadays isn't a dull that's like oh that's actually kind of brilliant.

[00:19:26] Well yeah that's how you get stereo audio out of it true. But yeah and then I believe also the Sanio 3D O use the same controller it just said Sanio red actually I think I've read it said panasonic.

[00:19:41] Okay, I'm not 100% sure on that I've read I think I read somewhere that even the Sanios had a panasonic controller for some reason. So what is your thought on the usage like as you used it like what it was your opinion on the controller itself.

[00:19:58] So to me what makes a controller functional is that you never have to look down at it while playing a game to like. Figure out what you're doing and for the most part.

[00:20:11] The 3D O controller succeeds and pretty much everything it does like there's never been an occasion. Playing a game on 3D O where I got like I had to like.

[00:20:21] But now go with the controller to figure out what everything does you can pretty much figure it out just by using your hands and looking at the screen. The one exception is fighting games because of the inherent design flaw of.

[00:20:36] The system doesn't have enough buttons to properly play a fighting game exactly like there's a reason they made the six button Genesis controller for example.

[00:20:45] Yeah, the super Nintendo kind of gets away with it because it had enough buttons you just had to use them in a really weird way for the time but.

[00:20:53] Yeah, wasn't it street fighter to champion edition on the Genesis if you push the start button you'd swap between punches and kicks. It was just a work around how you'd get around it because the Genesis later released like.

[00:21:07] The prototype for what I still say is the greatest 2D controller of all time with the Saturn.

[00:21:13] Which was the the six button Genesis controller which essentially gave a second row of buttons on top which to me that was pretty ingenious for the time even though a lot of games don't really take advantage of it.

[00:21:29] One game that uses it really well that you wouldn't think is a comics own. Yes, no, it actually really does and yeah say saves me a lot of hassle even though I still die on the second level anyways. Yeah, I've made it to the third level once.

[00:21:46] The farthest I made it in comics own just go off topic for a minute is the level where. Mortius lights the fucking comic on fire and then like I jumped off screen died and I was like oh I guess that's it.

[00:21:59] Yeah, it's a really good game is just a shame it's so ridiculously difficult. Yeah, the best way to play that game is the invincibility code. I have no chance in it in that. Oh, God yeah. But going back now to the radio controllers.

[00:22:15] Yeah, but do you like how it feels? Oh yeah, it's perfectly comfortable. It's a little it feels like a super Nintendo controller and that's perfectly fine to me. Yeah, because for me, the biggest issue really is the deep had itself.

[00:22:29] I find the deep had to be too small. You know, it feels like it feels like the size of maybe like a more modern. Deep had, you know, like looking like comparing it to say my little apeto deep had their kind of similar in size.

[00:22:43] But if you think about back then the Genesis and super Nintendo deep had were fairly good size and they're very comfortable to use both of them. I think. And then even going into the Saturn like those especially the model two controller that deep had is is perfection.

[00:23:00] Yeah, literally. It's one it's just it's too small. So saying games like wolf and stine or whatever, like after a couple hours like my thumb actually does get fatigued and it gets kind of tired because it feels like you really have to.

[00:23:15] You know, just the the the way my thumb moves on the deep had is just really uncomfortable for me, you know, but the buttons I mean the buttons are okay often I have to look down to be like which ones P which ones X I can never remember.

[00:23:29] And it's and it's funny how the controller some of the buttons they have the like the play pause stop you know rewind thing, you know for the for the CD thing which is which is a cute little. Addition that most people these days wouldn't use it for.

[00:23:45] Yeah, like for fighting games the work around they usually did was they would make I think it's P would become the sixth button you just kind of have to awkwardly stretch your thumb over to. Have that one extra button. Yeah, though I hope those games hopefully let you.

[00:24:03] You know change the button configuration it would probably help a lot. Yeah, um speaking of control it so the fact you mentioned the deep had being small actually the next control I want to talk about I'm going to send it over to you in the discord chat.

[00:24:19] So this is the old star. Which is interestingly the they had gold star had decided to go for their own radical interpretation of the 3D. And it's hard to tell by pictures but that thing is huge like it is almost it's actually like slightly.

[00:24:42] Make her than a Genesis controller, but it's like slightly thinner I guess you could say like with wise. It looks like a third party Genesis controller. Yeah, it is massive the buttons are. Not as great the deep had is huge, but feels super cheap.

[00:25:03] And it looks as stiff as like a gas station button. Yeah, it's not great. I do actually one of these like should have grabbed it but it's in storage somewhere I forgot to dig it out.

[00:25:14] Yeah, and then those like shoulder buttons are like chalkers on the top of it. Yeah, ironically they're probably the least offensive part of this controller like they just kind of exist like they're not. They're not good but they're not like Saturn model one.

[00:25:28] Like where they just don't work. Yeah, and it's like why are the buttons angled like in like the worst way possible you know because the way you're holding it your thumb is going to naturally go you know to the bottom right up or left right.

[00:25:46] That's where your thumbs going to naturally lay on a controller. So who the fuck decided oh let's have the buttons face the opposite direction. Yeah, it was.

[00:25:57] It's like literally it's like it's like the name it's like here's my homework but change it just enough so you know can travel.

[00:26:04] It kind of because at least with the panasonic one you can rest your thumb on on B and then you could just kind of rock it over to C and A when you need it you know what I mean like there's not a huge amount of movement.

[00:26:16] Whereas with that one it just looks ridiculous like it feels like they were thinking oh if we put them in you know aligned with the thumb every time. Everyone just going to push all the buttons at once or something like that but no.

[00:26:30] Yeah, yeah gold start so one of my goals for eventually is I want to track down a gold start 3D because they're their pieces of shit but apparently they're kind of cool the same time as well.

[00:26:44] Yeah and I'd like to just like see because apparently everything about the console just feels cheap in comparison. I believe it. But there's a mad cats 3D. Oh, I'm sure there is. You're also in your picture of it.

[00:27:04] Well you do that I'm going to send you another controller this one's probably one of the most famous third party controllers. Oh yeah, I've seen that one. Yeah, it says mad cats right on there.

[00:27:15] Oh, I have that in my my selection so actually we'll talk about that one now. Is it mediocre like everything mad cats? It you know honestly it looks so I've obviously never used one of these personally but it looks fine. Probably feels really cheap.

[00:27:33] It's got a whole that's controller. It's got an array of six turbo buttons. Everybody is a turbo button. Excuse me everybody is a turbo button. So what I find really interesting is this controller is set up.

[00:27:49] So if anyone wants to like play along you can easily just look up mad cats 3D. I can show you'll find this thing. Or you can go to the website I'm using which is archive 3DO dot com slash controllers dash 2. Okay, that also works as well.

[00:28:05] Because then you can just use look at that. Am I trying to I might include that in the description for the video? Yeah, they have a flight stick. Oh yeah, we'll be talking about that. So one thing that's really interesting about this controller is it's.

[00:28:20] Layout is was there. So they did the six. They tried to do the fighting game configuration of six buttons and I noticed. They got A B and C down there they also have L r and P. But at the same time he is also. The pause button.

[00:28:37] And then it still has the bumpers so it's like they have like multiple buttons configured in different setting setups. Like it's a 10 but it says 8 button control pad though correct me if I'm wrong that's 10 buttons.

[00:28:52] So they even count right unless they're not counting the other X and P which them by that token why are you counting the other L and R. Yeah, I don't know they're probably not counting the starting select buttons or X and P.

[00:29:06] I can't imagine why they ran out of business rock band for that's why. What's funny to is it has literally the most useless thing ever in the form of slow mode, which I think certain games it worked but the majority of games it just was.

[00:29:24] So it basically all it did was make it the game go pause and start pause and start like over and over. Yeah, like as how it's yeah how it's set up it's just looks really annoying. Yeah, it's it's not great. I've never helped one though.

[00:29:41] I actually might want to track one of these down because I'm curious how it actually works as a fighting game controller. Yeah, there's one on here called the sidekick and it literally is a Genesis 6 button controller like it's the exact same shape.

[00:29:55] I've seen I think I know which one you're talking about the one I'm going to send you next though is actually designed for fighting games and it's one of the more well known and also. The Zaris looking controller is of all time.

[00:30:06] I think I know the one that is the Capcom fighting game controller because I really want to get this. I'm looking for one I have not ever seen one like cheap. I've seen him on eBay here and there and yeah they are pricey.

[00:30:21] So this that didn't Capcom make this. Yes, because they knew for a fact play so that's the biggest tragedy of all time is Street Fighter 2 on the 3Dio is. Well until the arcade perfect ports came out years later.

[00:30:36] This was notably the best version of Street Fighter 2 on a console for a long period of time. Yeah, the problem here is one from Japan. It's a 61 75 plus 20 bucks shipping and it's but it's from Japan. It says it works.

[00:30:57] I mean it's systems region free altogether so I bet it works, but. I'm I'm I'm I'm I grab this then. Go for it because I need the whole this thing in my hand because that it looks so bizarre.

[00:31:12] But yet from what I've heard from people it's actually like really comfortable. So the best described this controller it looks like they cut a game cube controller in half and then melted it in the sun. And then that's what was left.

[00:31:27] Honestly, it looks like like the D pad half looks like a flight stick. Like it's probably that's probably how you hold it. And then they just kind of put like a jelly bean with buttons right next to it.

[00:31:40] So it's like it looks like you're like how do I hold this thing? But I imagine when you have one in your hands it's like oh that actually makes sense. You know what it kind of reminds me of if there was like like the traditional arcade joystick.

[00:31:54] Sorry dinner it they only have one the sale ends in like four hours. So I think I need to if I want to do this thing to make the blunder.

[00:32:04] What I was going to say though is if you were to put like an arcade style joystick read the D pad is it actually kind of looks like in our kid cat.

[00:32:12] And it's like in our kid cabinet set up like those buttons remind me a lot of the ones you see on an old arcade. Like set up yeah yeah it does.

[00:32:20] It's from what I've heard it is extremely comfortable like Capcom actually designed this thing to play Street Fighter essentially. Yeah so it says I should get this by the end of the month. Because Japan so probably when I get it I'm never forget I get it but anyways.

[00:32:40] So yeah the Street Fighter 2 episode will be much later. Yeah we'll get to that. I might try to find one of these alternative options that supposedly also works. Yeah well it's also Street Fighter 2 turbo's expensive on here as well. Yeah it's shot up a lot recently.

[00:32:59] Yeah because it's like a really good version. Oh there's a retro store that has a copy. I'll go see how much it is and I'll let you know. Okay because checking on here a good copy of just the jewel case is like 90 bucks.

[00:33:15] This might have been disconely so I'll have to look but I swear I saw a copy of it recently. Yeah disconely are a little bit cheaper and it's like do I really need all the other stuff like it be nice but you know you know how it is.

[00:33:33] Yeah so this controller is probably the most famous alternative 3Dogentrol then mostly because the company that made it literally made it just because they knew for a fact that the main controller wasn't going to work for their game. Is it the only controller cap comes ever made?

[00:33:50] I think they've made other ones this is the most unique one I can think of there just because it was literally because the base controller the company made for their system doesn't work right for their game.

[00:34:02] Oh they made one for it says they made one for the Genesis and it's the it's the exact same one is the 3Dogentrol. Oh that's cool but it has the little Genesis port so obviously won't work on a 3Dogentrol.

[00:34:20] So what's fun though is there was another company that made 3Dogentrol technically and they were the creative labs 3Dogentrol. So this is the real thing that I think it was a really cool thing that I think it's a really cool thing.

[00:34:34] But it came stock with quite possibly the worst 3Dogentrol ever made debatable there's a lot of options for the category but I'll send it to you now. This thing is a bismal. That looks like.

[00:35:05] Looks like it's like a gadget you'd use in like Star Trek deep space nine. I thought I was like a model star galactic or something it just has that sci-fi look to it.

[00:35:22] So for those who don't know this thing looks uncomfortable to hold just visually like it has like sharp edges which is a weird design choice. The defense looks kind of reminds me of the original Xbox the Duke D-pad in a way. Although that's probably better than this thing.

[00:35:42] Yeah like the Duke D-pad looks worse than this but it's probably more functional. Yeah and then the buttons why are they lit lined up like that?

[00:35:52] And it's just they're a triangle if you're curious everybody be is on the top in the center and then below it is A and C like that which yeah like that's a maluminati shit and it just looks like just the worst idea.

[00:36:07] Like if there if there was a D at the bottom of it and it made the traditional diamond it would be fine.

[00:36:14] So the problem to with this is also the way this picture is angled I can't see the triggers or the bumpers so i'm not even sure if they're there I assume they are but let's see oh here's.

[00:36:33] Oh here's i found a on that archive 3DO there is a another picture of it from a different angle so you can get a better look at that awful D-pad but you can't see the shoulder buttons.

[00:36:46] They've got to be this oh oh oh oh oh there's a box and the box shows the thing here let me let me just show you see see what I mean. Because if that is what the shoulder button looks like oh my god.

[00:37:04] Like oh no we can't see it yeah so there's a youtuber named lazy game reviews he actually reviewed the the 3DO blaster and he used this controller during it and it's coming back to me now those that is the shoulder button and it's not good.

[00:37:20] It's just like a normal button that you put on the shoulder like they took that too seriously. I like how it's called the 3DO speed pad. What yeah yeah you have to do speed to like this. It took figure it out.

[00:37:37] Basically and I see some like more but anyways I see more like fighting sticks like traditional fighting sticks. There's one that oh my god it's um it has like it's a third party pad but it has like the little screw in joystick in the middle of a D-pad.

[00:37:55] You know yes I think I know which one you're talking about. Yeah and it's like why?

[00:38:03] That was the thing that companies like did for a while they're like I remember the um they're like it gives you the feel of a joystick and it's like no it does not it's it's a D-pad.

[00:38:13] There's like that one CDI controller that has that fucking stick sticking out of it and it's like this is terrible. Yeah but at least with this 3DO one it hopefully it's like a screw in one because it looks like but I have no idea.

[00:38:27] That's like the part of the feel of a joystick it's so stupid. That's what the Atari 7800 controller did it had the option to screw in one of those things. Oh oh like the weird European.

[00:38:40] Yeah had one yeah because the one they had was like an actual joystick with the two buttons on the side. And you hold it like it's like a like it's your dick or something. Yeah it's such a weird design choice.

[00:38:54] I sent you one of the the the fight sticks and it's not a bad design but it's also a fight it's a fight stick.

[00:39:02] Yeah things fucking massive like all flight fights they're there's one there's one here that it's smaller and I don't know if it's any better or not but. I think it's a third party one. It doesn't it doesn't look bad though.

[00:39:17] No that actually looks like other than the it not having the proper fighting set up it looks pretty good. Yeah yeah even has that phone jack which is nice. Oh yeah. It has the it has the 3DO logo on it so might have been officially sanctioned. Possibly.

[00:39:37] Honestly it's weird probably was. It's weird to think anything 3DO is like third party when it feels like they were so open to other companies doing stuff. They probably would have let any random make a third party controller or something but I think they honestly did because.

[00:39:54] Yeah because it's like. I believe literally anybody could like apply for a 3DO license like you didn't have to make the console I think you could just license like the hardware and then make controllers if you wanted.

[00:40:06] Yeah because a lot of these boxes for the 3DO controllers have the logo on it. Not all of them but a lot of them do like this thing that looks like that. Yeah that now that looks like the Batman logo apparently. Oh thick yeah.

[00:40:24] Yeah I'm sure you know this but apparently there was a 3DO mouse. Yes. Yeah and I'm trying to think what fucking game would use the 3DO mouse. Good question. I'll have to look into that.

[00:40:42] Honestly yeah like like there's no Mario paint on here well it'd be fair the incredible machine.

[00:40:49] I feel like that could that was also a PC game so and when I've played of it I'm like oh yeah this could work with a mouse no problem but is that version program to use the mouse I have no idea.

[00:41:00] Maybe some of the FMV games possibly maybe but but let's be honest the best controller for this for this console is I'm gonna send it to you. Is this guy right? Oh the revolver the bright orange revolver. Because what does it say on the chamber.

[00:41:23] Game American game good. Yeah American laser games game gun use this for mad dog McCree. And crime patrol that's a crime patrol.

[00:41:37] See this is after this is like post any yes so like all the guns are like painted bright orange and like look to look at nothing like a gun. But it still is shaped like a revolver. Yeah.

[00:41:51] Where since they did this now it wouldn't look like a gun it would just look like like it would look like a nerf gun. It looked like the Sega like phaser gun and that they had.

[00:41:59] Like like do you remember I forget which it was one of the cabellas for like the 360 it came with like a gun controller which was like honestly it was like really bad but it didn't look anywhere near like a gun it honestly just looked like a nerf gun.

[00:42:13] Yeah meanwhile like you go back to like the fucking Odyssey and it had a fucking rifle. I came with it all of that thing and then AVG and shoots his TV with it. Yeah brilliant.

[00:42:26] Well and all of those old like arcade things have like these fucking really realistic looking guns it's like wow it was like such a different time.

[00:42:34] Such a different time because even now with like arcade machines to have guns they don't try to make them realistic at all despite the fact that like it's in arcade like that guns not going anywhere but. Yeah it is what it is you know we've all played area 51.

[00:42:51] You know what's sad though is like those you can find the 3D or gun for each cheap I believe but you can't use it on a modern TV which sucks.

[00:43:00] Yeah yeah cause like a technology stuff yeah I can't use it on this guy behind me which is a shame because actually would play mad dog McCree on that but when we eventually do our mad dog McCree episode I'm going to.

[00:43:14] Spoiler alert I'm going to be playing the wee version because yeah some of you who don't know the mad dog McCree trilogy yes there were three of them got a wee port back in the day.

[00:43:28] In fact when a game grumps because we were talking about game grumps earlier when they were playing mad dog McCree they're playing the wee version.

[00:43:37] Which seems to be the way to go now it is if you want to play that kind of game yeah I said another fun.

[00:43:47] I love that all these third party controls they are kind of look the same you know it's like you know we have 3D oh at home and then they mix that with like they all have to have the turbo and like slow options and they're always just like these weird looking just switches in the middle.

[00:44:08] Like every third party controller from this era looks just like that. This one looks like it also has the option to put one of those annoying thumb sticks on the D-pad. Yeah the little screw hole yeah. D-pad's also recessed in this like concave circle which is a.

[00:44:26] I wonder how it looks because that looks like a pain in the ass to play I'm not going to lie.

[00:44:31] Yeah like it's it's so weird to think you would think we've come so much farther in game controller technology these days but it's weird like the third party controllers add a bit of arena slots in the switch era.

[00:44:46] You know because you think during ps4 xbox one nobody was talking about third party controllers like or even then the 360 ps3 era like not really you just kind of use the controllers that they came with because those were the better ones right.

[00:45:00] And then I mean the the we third party controllers oh those are who there's a lot of fun ones there and then the we you didn't really have any and then the switch there's been so many third party controls with the switch it's been ridiculous.

[00:45:14] Like I mean hell like 8 bit do you know if they're party controller company but these controllers are good. You know it feels like we've gone to that point where some third party controllers are genuinely really really good because they're made for like emulation essentially.

[00:45:30] Yeah but then you see some that are just just like old times they're just terrible like why does this exist you know. Yeah and then and then for me probably the best third party controller is the wireless larger tech ps2 controller.

[00:45:46] I don't have one with me but that thing was phenomenal I like to a lot more in the original.

[00:45:51] So what's funny too is like we you haven't brought this up but one thing that all of these third party controllers have other than the gun for obvious reasons is. They all include that controller for built into the controller. Well they had to.

[00:46:10] Yep and what's hilarious is they're all compatible with each other so you can create this long abomination chain of just madness and play it on the video. You ever see the human centipede it probably looks like that. Yeah the humans said to set you back.

[00:46:30] Do you think the um do you think the like the fight sticks have the the Daisy train on it. I don't know they're like maybe an exception I something tells me they probably do.

[00:46:45] I would I would love if the American laser games gun had it that would be amazing just like random like gun in the middle of the chain. Yeah and then like the controller port is like the little hole like the end of the barrel.

[00:46:59] You just plug it right into there that would be amazing but you know we're not allowed nice things like that. That would be too insane for the time. But yeah it's it's not.

[00:47:14] It's not as like crazy detailed as far as like third party controllers or controllers in general I say some of the other consoles of its era.

[00:47:22] But there are still some some weird oddities in there you know and it shows I think how much of a wild west gaming in the 90s kind of was.

[00:47:30] And that it was becoming a big deal but it's it wasn't standardized you know if I like once we hit the PS2 era it's like yeah gaming is kind of it's standardized now.

[00:47:41] You know yeah like not a lot of companies go out of their way to try to enter the market anymore because they know they know it's going to happen.

[00:47:50] I think we've learned to is when they do like I think Google learn that it's not as easy as they expected. Yeah, stadium is like I'm told stadium worked really well they just didn't really know what they were doing and then.

[00:48:05] And then I think Amazon's trying it with Luna and that's probably going to die as well though Apple Arcade seems to be doing really well.

[00:48:13] Is doing it the way that a company should because a lot of people always go why does an Apple make a console and I always say because they did in the 90s and it sucked. The Pico. Yeah, that's that's a whole thing.

[00:48:29] Steve Jobs hated it so much the second he came back to happily killed it off and got rid of it.

[00:48:34] I died really don't blame him because that thing looks like a absolute disaster the only thing I would ever want to play on the Pico is marathon and I'm pretty sure there's better ways to play marathon at this point.

[00:48:45] Oh the Pippin not the Pete why do I think it was the Pico it's the Pippin oh no the Pico is the Sega thing. That's right that was the the Pico was the the Genesis that was like a kids toy. The protolipad.

[00:48:58] Yeah, yeah, I've always wondered one of those. It's basically it's just a Genesis with the the weird cartridges and apparently it's surprisingly like pretty cool.

[00:49:08] Yeah, did they put Echo Junior on that thing because when I played Echo Junior it's like this is definitely a a Pico kind of game because I don't know if you played Echo Junior but it's actually my favorite of the Echo games.

[00:49:21] It's the end of the game like far. Yeah, and it's cool that when you like bump into like sea creatures it like it shows you a picture and it gives you a little description it's like oh I'm actually learning. I'm actually learning about the sea.

[00:49:32] I've played a bit of Echo Junior my favorite part about it is if you played on the Genesis the soundtrack is fucking terrifying for no reason. It is. Oh boy. Yeah, we have the apple Pippin that thing didn't really that that didn't take off.

[00:49:49] I mean why would it you know. It in partnership with Bandai. And then there's a gadget adventure and travel and adventure which has gotten ports.

[00:50:03] But let's have my phone oh there we go that's better but yeah with like Apple as I think we were trying to say with Apple is you know they have Apple Arcade which has been doing really well for them.

[00:50:14] And it's kind of I find it weird as far as I know they haven't made like a dedicated Apple Arcade box yet. Or like just a little one's use plug in the back here TV like a USB stick because I would buy that.

[00:50:26] You know what it is they've probably just seen all the other companies that have tried it and they've just kind of been like you know it's working for us right now why why bother jeopardizing it.

[00:50:36] I mean I feel like it just be so easy is just to make a little fire stick that's like oh you can you know use the app store to play Apple Arcade games they give you a fire stick and a controller.

[00:50:45] I think the issue would be the controller because this apple real like do I trust apple to design a good video game controller? No. Yes. I mean it we saw the point.

[00:50:57] Yeah, I mean even nowadays like I remember you know using my iPod trying to play games on that click wheel. That didn't really work out too well. Like if I could Bluetooth like my series X controller to it then I'd probably be just like.

[00:51:12] Yeah, like you can do on a phone kind of. Yeah exactly because that seems to be the biggest issue with gaming in a lot of ways is that like the controller seems to be the from what I've gathered the the the hurdle for like some casual people.

[00:51:29] You know that I'm sure you've had that scenario where you give somebody who doesn't really play video games you give them a controller right and then and then they look at it and they're like what is this.

[00:51:41] Yeah, it's like this just can glamour it of sticks and buttons and it's like what do I do with this thing but like for us we know this like this is nothing.

[00:51:50] Yeah, we've had this in our hands since we were tiny little babies so we know and it's always funny to see somebody hold it and not know what they're doing with it.

[00:51:59] See that's that's partially why the we was so successful is because that was such an easy thing for people to grasp.

[00:52:05] Yeah you just you take the edge I had my we might hear you just take it and you just you shake the thing you know you jerk you jerk the thing you push buttons occasionally you know. It is a well designed controller for what it is.

[00:52:19] I keep saying we mode even though it is technically we remote. Yeah, I think that people even in tendos just kind of accepted we mode at this point because it sounds like that's what they would have named it anyways. Yeah, the we mode and then.

[00:52:35] Rick from pixel pixel project referred to the nunchuck as the we chuck once and I can't I'm thinking of that now.

[00:52:42] The way he check I love that the number I love it like he said that I was like I can't on your that that's going to be it for now the we check. The we make a week back down after Rick by the way.

[00:52:55] Eric hey Rick how you doing go listen to the last out of see everybody. Yeah, I'm thinking about it though like that's basically a good schmorgasport of controllers for the three of it there's hundreds more of these things like.

[00:53:10] Yeah, but they're all kind of the same thing you know and it's yeah and it's sort of like third party controllers they. They do the job but it never feels right. I think N64 third party controllers that's fun.

[00:53:26] Those are funny looking the controller normal trying to I think and then some there just awful.

[00:53:35] Yeah, like the I find the standard 3D or controller like passable for what it is you know when you compare it to its two big brothers it just doesn't it's not nearly the same as far as the quality in my opinion.

[00:53:48] But it gets but it gets the job done it's far from the worst controller I've ever held I mean call me crazy, but I don't hate the Atari Jaguar controller for example. I mean aside from the telephone pad on it the controller itself is fine.

[00:54:01] Yeah, but like I'll say this one's better than the intelligent in the click of vision. Yeah, I get the same way that. It's better than the CDI control Earth's plural. Oh yeah, oh god. I'll think I've ever seen a CDI in person.

[00:54:21] I saw on an convention that was it wasn't even the the Philips one. It was the Magna Vox one that actually looks like a video game console. Oh yeah, I've seen that one this like the top loader. Yeah, I've seen that one.

[00:54:35] Yeah, it looks like like you had an AI generated video game console. Yeah, it's very basic standard. I've seen one of those in real life that's about it. I've never seen one of the fucking BCR looking CDI is ever the massive beast. Yeah, boy.

[00:54:56] I don't even think I'd want to collect CDI because like. It's way too expensive. I've seen the prices it is ridiculous. It's too expensive and there's like three four games that are worth playing on it. And that's that's a stretch that the term worth playing by the way.

[00:55:12] Yeah, yeah. Like the CDI probably has the one game I'd want to play on is it's version of Jeopardy. And it's because they actually got Alex Drabak to like do a bunch of like recorded footage of him and he also reads off every clue.

[00:55:30] And there's like hundreds of clues in that game. So it's like the most involved. Trabak has ever been in a Jeopardy video game which is kind of impressive actually. Because it's not like say the was it like the we 360 era where they had like that weird-diformed

[00:55:46] Trabak that almost looked like a me. Yeah, and then the modern ones are just like nothing like the Ubisoft Jeopardy. You know, it's just kind of... My favorite is the Super Nintendo. Jeopardy with the... Jeopardy was Trabak right? Yes.

[00:56:04] It's like his sprite pops up on screen and it like they animated the meltflapping and it looks horrible. Yeah, he absolutely met. Yeah, that's a classic one. Yeah, someone selling a CDI tested with games for 200 bucks. That's actually not that bad. That's about what we get.

[00:56:23] That's about what the 3D of us for. Well, the games they have with it are these some bangers. Ran McNally's America US Atlas. Peacows Bill, Comptains Interactive in Cyclopedia. Tell me why two textiles tell me why one and my personal favorite how the camel got his hump.

[00:56:46] I have no flowers of rubber maple thorns. I actually really like rubber maple thorns because like not to deviate from that but it's funny that he has that CDI game about flowers

[00:56:57] but if you actually look into his career he's more known for shooting like New York BDSM scene in like the 80s. You know? I just I like that dream.

[00:57:07] I just love the AVG and joke where he like he hype set up like every time he brings up the CDI And then he finally played it on one of his Christmas episodes and it's literally just flowers and he's just like

[00:57:18] He doesn't know how to react to it. It's pleasant. Yeah, it's pretty funny actually. Yeah, it's so weird to think that like that guy else that same guy who did all that did all that other kind of BDSM stuff. Yeah, but we're all multifaceted, aren't we?

[00:57:41] So I guess to wrap this up though, I did want to mention. So obviously like it's funny how there's so many options for 3Docantrolers but in reality the best option is the original one. Yes.

[00:57:55] The only exception I'd say is debatable the Capcom one just because of how apparently it's. Taylor made for fighting games so I'm very curious but aside from that one, most of the third party ones are. That. Just. Well, I did order one during the show.

[00:58:15] So when I get it, I'll let you all know how I feel about it. I'll probably just end up playing some games on it in general just to see how it is.

[00:58:22] And then when I eventually get Street Fighter for it, then we'll play it properly and who knows maybe I'll become a Street Fighter fan. Maybe it's I mean it's a very good port of Street Fighter. It's all I say. Oh for sure.

[00:58:34] Here it's just I'm more of a mortal combat guy when it comes to fighting game. That's great. Well, we'll be talking about a more combat clone at some point as well. That's for sure.

[00:58:43] If you're saying they secretly boarded mortal combat to this thing, I would have lost it. Well, I think they were. They were. They were coming at you. What are combat two is in the process right now? I believe they're actually it's pretty close. There's a home version.

[00:58:56] Well, I thought they were like legit trying to do it. I'll have to look into that because I know it's like I can like back in the day. I think so.

[00:59:06] I'll have to read the the project updates because they've been sharing them a lot lately on the 3D or edit. Nice. So. But yes, so next week we'll be like we said earlier we'll be covering icebreaker. Getting back into normal 3D content.

[00:59:24] It's fun to do like a little side episode every now and then just talking about how we're fucking weird the 3D is and why it's awesome. For real. But yes. So other than that guys once again, thanks for joining us for the 3D experience.

[00:59:38] You can find the 3D experience on all the major podcasting platforms. You can find all of our links at link tree slash the arbor who games and yeah other than that. You can join the GNC podcast network discord server to talk all things 3D,

[00:59:55] OG and C, you get X, talk anime gaming all that fun stuff. And. Thrackeve also got your can crimson podcast right. That's right.

[01:00:08] Yeah, I have the frame by frame podcast about kingdoms and we did we did the star list episode and we're in the works on the next episode which will be basically between star list and elephant talk.

[01:00:23] We'll talk about that whole the JJ Bennett stuff and health kitchen and exposure and all that crap there's a lot there to talk about and also.

[01:00:32] The me and Bill were just recently on an episode of super pod talk talking about Japanese exclusive games so y'all should listen to that it's a that was a fun time like I've actually really listened to that episode twice because it was it was so funny.

[01:00:46] All I can say is sucking the pants off monkeys you understand as you listen. Yeah, what I love about super pod is that it's so reform and that we're just can just kind of riff about whatever you know and yeah and just kind of goes with it.

[01:01:02] Yeah, it's that's why I love the best is when Aaron brings up brings together a big group and then he just struggles to keep control of said big group that it goes on exactly. It's great.

[01:01:13] You'll probably be hearing from us on super pod in the future at some point probably free. Oh yeah, almost likely we should get Aaron on here. Do you know what the 3DO even is? I do know what the 3DO is you tell us. I've invited him three times.

[01:01:29] What's just a you know. Aaron it'll happen. It'll happen someday come on buddy. Do you do want to be on the plumbers don't worry ties episode? That'll be a full house because Alex wants in on that too. I wish he coming on for that one.

[01:01:46] I think she might so we'll see. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah, I gotta remember we ate that work comes out and March right. Yes, that supposedly we'll see. I have a feeling it's going to stay. At least I hope.

[01:02:01] I'm more worried if if limited runs going to make it that far but. Oh, you think they're at. Are you think they're going to. Far for bankruptcy or something? I don't know there's been all those companies making those like limited edition games haven't been doing greatly.

[01:02:15] I know limited runs probably the healthiest on all of them but. You never know why. Well, I think it helps that they also publish a lot of games digitally as well.

[01:02:24] Yes, which is probably what I like about them most is that they don't restrict these to just the physical copies. So. But anyways, we're going over aren't we? Yeah. Once again though guys thank you all for listening and we'll see you all later. Bye bye.

[01:02:41] I'm not playing on a 3D O system you play with.