Press B 215: Greatest Real Time Strategy Games

[00:00:01] You got a J. Are you good? Wait am I hosting now? Okay. I thought you just said you just said you were going to Me apparently, you know what? I got a no you don't got shit Opening line Minerals depleted

[00:00:27] RTS is and which one's the best today on You Guys welcome one at all as you could see we totally have all of our shit together tonight today We are going to talk about real-time strategy games. That's right real-time strategy games

[00:01:04] that would include wonderful gems hidden gems such as Warcraft Starcraft Minecraft craft mac and cheese or blue box as they talk about that up in Canada and Other crafts up there. No Minecraft and blue box is not there. We're not talking about that

[00:01:22] But we are gathered today with some wonderful people here. I've got four No me. I'm not a friend. I've got three out of my four friends here tonight guys Citistar is

[00:01:36] Currently real-time strategy his way out of his house right now. He is gathering armies and getting resources so he can trek forth Through the rocky Colorado's and maybe go find some beer. I don't know

[00:01:50] I don't know what his motives are, but we wish him the best of luck And I hope he can go and conquer that that brewery that he's trying to take down But with me today again, of course are Three of the best people I know on the planet

[00:02:03] Well, Wolf, how are you doing sir? I'm doing all right But if I'm one of the three best people you know on the planet that doesn't say a lot for humanity Wow, I just agree You

[00:02:15] You bring that ray of hope that everybody needs so I'll go with that Speaking of rays of sunshine sick Jake. How are you? I thought you're gonna be last I'm good for the record chart. We do have Minecraft here, but we do not have blue box

[00:02:30] We have craft dinner it comes in blue box, but we don't refer to it as blue box. That's that's not proper That's just not how I do things in macaroni and cheese. No Minecraft these nuts Wow Speaking of blue boxes GP are you today?

[00:02:50] Segway now I thought I was doing okay minecraft is actually what they they call craft mac and cheese in Jeremy minecraft That's Mine my name crap. Okay. Anyway, listen. Yeah. No, that makes sense. No, I get it Someone recently told me that They found it

[00:03:11] Surprising how relatively well adjusted of a human being I am I given certain circumstances And I have thought about that for four days now and everyone should be terrified so, you know

[00:03:25] If you're not already you're behind craft see it's minecraft because in German mind craft. Yes, mine there it is See my turn just angry all the time. You know guys we're gonna get canceled We don't get off the German talk

[00:03:45] Anyways, we're gonna we're gonna us as far this conversation which is exit in Germany. Thank you very much Aspart is yeah, it's either I can't remember which one was on ramp or off ramp, but okay I thought

[00:04:03] The biggest city in the world because every time I would drive down the Alte of on if you would say alfard I'm like this town is everywhere. No, that's to get the hell off the road. There's so many questions. Yeah. Yeah, so

[00:04:15] Don't listen. I can talk about it. I live there for two and a half years. So it's fine I'm the resident German of the podcast speaking of residents RTS's guys Jake got a letter from the International Olympic Committee and

[00:04:32] He accidentally forwarded it to me because he thought it was junk mail for me and he was wrong. However, I don't have any of the selections

[00:04:40] So I have to go into a digital box here because I thought somebody else was going to host this so as you could see Excellently prepared for this episode. So what I'm going to do is I'm gonna reach deep down inside

[00:04:52] And I'm going to go into the order that we have here. No, no, no Don't do that. Yeah, I have the brackets. No, you can't get no, okay? No, I have I will defraud the brackets. I'm gone for three weeks

[00:05:08] They've been random I buy the machine algorithm charge. We don't fuck with the algorithm Machine, you know what it today. I'm fine with it, but don't I have a system of links set up in tabs And if you go out of order it fucks me up

[00:05:30] Yes, it does so I have Just defer to you sir. Oh, okay What's wrong with the society we live in I mean it wasn't a bad one I didn't think for Put together a group of friends doing a very professional gaming podcast that

[00:06:03] We're killing it this this week. This is a good one. There's a reason we're number 17 the the IOC Oh, well, those reached out to me Wolf is in we're number 17. I love to hear about rankings where we

[00:06:18] I don't know. We have to come in at like 15 to 17 on some good pods ranking You understand we're not even in the top five in my household I love yeah, same I asked my wife. Do you listen to my podcast? No You have a podcast

[00:06:38] I usually get who are you and why do you keep breaking in but you know, it's all good All right, uh, okay, so I have I have here an envelope Do me favor IOC Start with on the in the envelope Start with line six Okay

[00:06:57] Hold on let me what? All right. I'm looking at it line line six. Yes. I'm holding it for you. That's in bold Is that the bold one? That's the first bracket, please

[00:07:07] Do we not have an envelope budget? I'm sorry. I can spot us 40 cents if we need to buy a couple dozen Well Well Was it a jitter snaps bag? What was that?

[00:07:22] I was a little bit of a trouble bag, but don't worry about it. I get my stuff from high grade. All right This is they like to send me chocolates because we do so well Okay, is it important that I'm here for this? Yes

[00:07:35] Listen if this boat's going down we're all sitting on it tonight. All right All right, I will hold my hands up and surrender So I will go down with that shit. We've picked eight games, right eight games. There are

[00:07:49] Countless real-time strategy games. It was very difficult to narrow down to eight But we somehow managed to do it I think we asked we asked the community on discord got some some ideas there We all had ideas sinister had a bunch of ideas

[00:08:02] We will we'll do our best to just give them justice Be around and in addition to the eight games if for some reason we can't agree on something If there's a tie and we want to mix it up. I got four mystery envelopes

[00:08:15] Well q cards that were thrown at me this morning I don't know what's on them But they're there if you would like to use them and I promise this time They're good picks Not a truck to insight. Okay, they're but they're there if you want them

[00:08:32] If there's a circus charlie in there i'm quitting this podcast I just got an email from youtube letting me know we're the first channel in history to have a negative viewership. This is cool Live, I mean a live negative viewership. You can't even give this away

[00:08:49] They're trying to run the internet I'm being honest. This is the best thing on the internet You know, we only have eight games to pick from but it's still going to be a two hour episode Okay, so the first bracket

[00:09:00] Because we can't get out of our own ways Command and conquer red alert to yuri's revenge versus starcraft brood war Who wants to talk about this first? GP? Yeah, go ahead. I My vote is command and conquer red alert to yuri's revenge um

[00:09:26] I'm not huge as they say Into the rts community Uh and my i'll say it this way my relationship with my brother Has been kind of hit or miss But one thing we have and always will agree on is command and conquer red alert

[00:09:43] And its offshoots and sequels are fantastic um That that soundtrack to that I think it's the hell march I remember hearing that for the first time in like the late 90s And I was just blown away and it was cool and it was like

[00:09:59] Powerful and kind of scary and I just I ever since then Have been a big fan of command and conquer but specifically Uh the red alert series so my vote red alert All right, we got one for c and c

[00:10:17] Yeah, so this is this is a good pick or this is a good choice of games. This was when This is when westwood was starting to get really into the whole idea of live action cut scenes And that's why I wanted this one versus the original red alert

[00:10:31] So this is done by I think this came out in 2000 as westwood studios And at the same time of command and conquer they also did a dune 2000 I think it was and they really leaned into the live action casting

[00:10:42] And the casting choice in this game was was pretty decent a whole lot of like b level actors you'll recognize Not quite like tim curry famous like in red alert 3 But there's definitely a lot of b list actors I recognize and plus a feature is yuri

[00:10:55] Who is one of the most fucked up weird? Weird villains in a game I've seen and the fact that this is a video game and these were what they used as cut scenes. I thought it was just astounding So I really did I really do like red alert 2

[00:11:10] Um compared against starcraft brood war I have I I've played it. I've never been good at starcraft But I have you have to recognize how important starcraft brood war is Because basically the national sport of south korea

[00:11:27] It's like the esport before csgo, right? It was it was always starcraft as a big game So you got to respect starcraft. So i'm kind of kind of torn between the two I love the cut scenes in command and conquer. I love the acting

[00:11:39] I love the the put the um alternate future type thing with russia the cold war stuff But brood war is an institution in korea alone like there's millions of fans of that franchise Okay, I don't think that starcraft had gary oldman the way that urie's revenged it

[00:11:58] And uh while I don't have facts to back that up. I don't think anybody can really prove that gary oldman wasn't playing somebody In that game That's a strong argument That's a strong argument wolf um I am going to

[00:12:19] Not vote on this one because I have never played a command and conquer And uh If I were to vote it would be unfair because i've never played one and I can't stand the other There you go. Well, which one don't you you can't stand starcraft? No

[00:12:40] Okay, what don't you like about starcraft? I have never been able to enjoy it. It just feels like it's Every match lasts maybe 10 minutes and it's over like That's still a record in my house. That's that's not what

[00:12:57] That's not what real-time strategy is to me. That's too fast for a real-time strategy game. So I have never been a fan of starcraft. It's also a line. I hear a lot Yeah pretty mature Okay, pretty mature

[00:13:12] I don't know. This is interesting because like starcraft brought it. I mean starcraft was great because it had the three very distinct factions, right? Like the zergs Fast cheap units warm the enemy really quickly. You have the protoss which are very slow fewer units

[00:13:25] They have the um the pylon mechanic to get around and then the humans can I think can the humans move their bases in this game Oh, sorry the terren's my bad The uh the terrens I think can float their buildings and move them

[00:13:36] I think yes, they can relocate like their headquarters and a lot of their their major buildings can be uplifted and removed to a different location So that that was definitely very unique and cool. Um from my recall from red alert

[00:13:48] I think the units are a little bit different between the americans in the in the russian side But they don't feel nearly as distinct as they do in starcraft Plus starcraft does have a pretty decent campaign for what it is

[00:13:59] It's not as good as later entries that blizzard has done But it has a decent decent uh campaign although. I gotta say the the early blizzard cgi I mean this is not as bad as like warcraft 2 which we'll talk about i'm sure later

[00:14:12] But man, it's rough in terms of 3d animation I think I might prefer the enemy. I think I might prefer the live action and red alert I think i'm gonna pick red alert Just because it's very his gaze alone

[00:14:23] I think and I kind of like the setting more but I I definitely have a lot of respect for starcraft Word well, I lose this round because I'm going with starcraft Um starcraft was one of my favorite rts is growing up. Um obviously bridging the gap between

[00:14:39] Warcraft into starcraft was kind of this really cool, you know You do the old timey orcs versus a humans thing and then now you've got the futuristic of the three factions I like the differentiation like jake said about the three different factions

[00:14:53] I like that you had to form creep To be able to spawn more of the The zerg thank you, uh right and and and there were different There were penalties and then there were bonuses between each creature

[00:15:09] That made it a unique gameplay for whomever team or whatever faction you were playing the pylons You had to build stuff close to the pylons the taranties you can kind of go pretty much anywhere

[00:15:20] But you can uplift and move around they had a lot of really cool weapons like the siege tank that would have two different modes Where you can plant it and it turns into like a mortar You know cratering weapon that you can use um

[00:15:35] I played this a lot with a friend of mine growing up and uh, I used to run defense and he would form the Oppositions so he would create all of the battle cruisers

[00:15:45] And I'd have a wall of missile launchers and stuff and it would we would just rake people left to right I had a lot of fun growing up playing starcraft um I'm not I'm nowhere near to the level of what you know a lot of

[00:15:58] The institutions that they have out there in the world But it was just it's a lot of fun and and my wife when I'll say starcraft 2 because that it came out when her and I got together And I did the midnight purchase and all that stuff

[00:16:11] I'd be playing it late at night And whenever you run out of something it says minerals depleted and it moves on to the next thing Well, that is still a phrase used in this house And my wife hates it

[00:16:21] Hates it she'll be when she's annoyed. She goes minerals depleted Because you adhere it every five minutes after each location would start losing, you know, whatever you were grinding or farming out of there So um, I'm a big starcraft fan starcraft guy grind with me is is real

[00:16:38] I love command and conquer. I thought command and conquer was a cool game That was the one I think you can drop like you can get spies that could sneak in other people battle lions and drop

[00:16:46] Nukes on people and yeah, but you can do the same thing and starcraft with the terrans with certain levels of units that you can use for that too So but can command and conquer started that and then starcraft utilized it in their stuff too

[00:16:58] So it's you know, you know where it came from kind of thing and respect where respect your elders kind of thing um, I just really like the space Contour and the different the really different things about each faction you had to play as so

[00:17:13] Starcraft gets my vote although it loses. I'm still I'm still I still represent a problem. Hold on Now I think we move on we've got a long it's that We've all voted now and the way you're talking about

[00:17:25] The way you're talking about starcraft 2 now, I played a lot of it And we don't have starcraft 2 on this list Which I think we had a number of reasons why we didn't put it on here

[00:17:35] I think that there I think the reason that sister really didn't like this one was um Because they they tried to introduce you like a seasons aspect to Starcraft 2 and that kind of turned them off of the whole franchise So I think we leaned into starcraft brood war

[00:17:51] The more I think about it though chart is just like I think I think this was a big franchise for blizzard And underutilized one because they really only had the two entries

[00:18:00] There's no world of starcraft despite the rumors, right? There should be that would have been awesome. I would have been interesting yeah, I mean I do like the characters. I do like Yuri

[00:18:11] I like the cold war stuff. Back in this blizzard though should be reason enough to vote for command and conquer, right? well You know when shitty people make cool stuff you can ignore the shitty people but still but still like they're they weren't a shitty back then though

[00:18:25] So it's a scale of shit. They're okay back there. Well, they probably first shitty back then we just didn't know I think I changed my vote to starcraft uh starcraft. I think I have to the more

[00:18:36] I had to contribute to this entire episode was command and conquer and now that dream has been taken from me Your input is appreciated. We have a tie now Yeah, do we go to the hat?

[00:18:51] No, we gotta go to the wolf to wolf abstain unless you want to take a vote. I abstained Unless you want to vote. Oh, and we do have a tie and we can pull an envelope. It's up to you I mean

[00:19:01] I mean he said he didn't like starcraft at all. That's a that's a half vote, but I've never played A command and conquer. I hate this so much that even though I've never played it. I'd probably like it No

[00:19:16] I was experienced or lack of research ever stopped us before so you can still vote These are and the the worst thing is these are things I should have played because I have two and three on uh Origin or ea, whatever they call it now

[00:19:33] Do you own it? Yeah, I played it Nope, never played them and I have them Bro, you know how many games that I have that I've still never touched come on I at least I try them for five minutes at least

[00:19:45] No, there's a lot of them that I barely try and or don't try and they just sit in my library for ages I don't think I paid for them at least. I think they were free but still At least is that

[00:19:58] Well, if I think you should vote and if it's a tie, that's why we have envelopes. I made four this time I will vote for command and conquer Oh, yeah, all right. My man. Gosh So I pick a color

[00:20:10] Pick a color. Yeah, and you got to play along engage with the conversation Future Fuchsia that's pink, right? Sure Puse Magenta Magenta, thank you Brutal legend I'm into So well if you have to explain brutal legend to the rest of us and how it's an rts game

[00:20:33] If that changes, this was my contribution to these these uh little papers, um So the first half of brutal legend is not real-time strategy at all It's all like beat them up platformer Action game, you know Racing around also like it's all over the board

[00:20:56] And then you get to the second half of the game and all of a sudden it's like real-time strategy Everything you're flying around over the battlefield Constantly going to your troops and telling them where to go and what to do

[00:21:08] And so it's presented in a weird way because it's not like You know, you don't get that like super zoomed out overhead view instead. You're flying around area to area

[00:21:17] Telling your troops what to do where to go and you do engage in some of the combat a little bit But mostly it's your your uh soldiers doing the work and so it's It's kind of a joke that I mentioned this to begin with but uh

[00:21:33] Yeah, I hope Final Fantasy 7 is in there for their real-time strategy segment But I mean it is it's it is legitimately a real-time strategy game for the second half of the game the second half Does that change in my mind?

[00:21:50] It blew me off so bad when I got to the second half. I was just like what is this And it's even like the multiplayer mode is the real-time strategy game

[00:22:01] When you told me this wolf, I thought you're you're making a joke because as far as I know Like a tim Schaefer game. I thought it was like an action adventure like psycho knots

[00:22:09] I had no idea that this is the kind of game it was in the back half. That's so weird Yeah, it's it's very strange, but uh Yeah, I love this game and I like it like like I said, you know

[00:22:22] It's got so many things going for it as you're playing through. Yeah, rts is one of the tags on steam like I know it seems silly like it's tagged with our action adventure rpg

[00:22:37] It's got it all rts in there. What do you get the game that has everything you get at rts? That's what you get. Yeah, you had an rts mode. Yeah Does this change your vote? I guess No, I mean

[00:22:50] Maybe his but I mean it would it would change mine to brutal legend, but that's still two to one the one So the two would win I guess is I guess how we could yeah, I think starcraft wins either way Well, I tried to make it fair

[00:23:08] God you're wild I love the brutal legend actually made it in here and that gp and I both chose that color All right. Well looks like uh starcraft rude war moves on to the next round

[00:23:27] In the weirdest way possible in the absolute worst way possible, but I'll accept that most scientifically accurate measurements way possible books here Right there. There's the players guy for brood war by the way. There it is right there

[00:23:43] Let me let me point to my books right there bingoes Are we pointing at books? I got these guys right there That's my final fantasy anthology. Okay. Um I'm look I'm looking I am looking I am asking what's

[00:24:02] Any direction chart you any direction? Okay, it's all I go up and down left and right diagonal All right, let's go ahead and knock this guy out of the way Because I'm I'm not super confident about either one of these sins of a solar empire rebellion versus

[00:24:22] Dune 2 and we're not talking about the movies or the children of dune, but dune 2 as seen on the sega genesis the genesis and The dune and pc and and a bunch of different things. Um, that was the one where I wasn't

[00:24:38] So a real quick gp. I wasn't sure which one to put on there. I know some people in chat had mentioned dune 2000 or Yes, dune 2000 and there's another one that came out a couple years later But I kept going back to the original like we did talk about

[00:24:54] Was it hidden gems dune 2 or was just something And it's like how impactful it was it's one of the very first rts games how things like resource management and different factions All kind of came from this game. So I felt it appropriate to put dune 2 Instead of dune 2000

[00:25:07] But I liked the whole franchise to be honest with you and then when we want to talk about sins of a solar empire I can talk on that one because I have played that game a lot But sorry gp go ahead

[00:25:17] No, no, no, I was just gonna throw my my two sins in My vote is for dune 2 because of the previous episodes And I think it's the solid entry and absolutely deserves its place Uh, you're on the episode so dune 2 for for all gp

[00:25:34] Love it old gp. Yeah, tell you what I'll make mine short and sweet too Because I'm gonna probably share a very similar sentiment that gp says I've I've seen I've never played but I've watched some of the sins of the solar empire. It seems very very interesting

[00:25:49] It's like a galactic battlefield looking type thing. So you're you're fighting around planets as opposed to like on one Again very very brief view of it seems very vast and large. I love dune. I like dune stuff Um

[00:26:06] I I did watch a little bit of the playthrough and dune 2 I think it's pretty special for it to be an early rts that was shown and what I watched on the sega genesis

[00:26:15] And you know, you gotta have that farty base in there with the iraq is the iraqans and the and the worms and Shahalud and all that crap and christopher walken is fantastic um, so I

[00:26:28] The way the captors likeness on sega genesis is just it's just really good. I love that christ these worms Don't eat my god There's a lot of does Shahalud

[00:26:40] Every time every time my son falls down. We say one of two things either jesus christ is jason born or we all scream Nassan al-gayi that's I need children just for that that alone that made my night i'm going with dune 2 at total random but

[00:26:59] I like to do an rts. I like the newer one I think it's really cool And if it's has anything to do and it's a similar it similarities back in the old days of very

[00:27:07] You know resource management getting the spices and all that stuff. I uh, i'm a big fan of that So my my vote goes for dune 2 Even with my lack of distinct knowledge of sins of a solar empire so

[00:27:21] Gp you're killing me. Well, if you want me to go and talk about sins of the empire or Yeah, i'm gonna let you talk about sins of a solar empire All right, I don't think it's gonna win and that because I think nobody's really played it

[00:27:35] But I really wanted this one on the list. Um It's a it's a mix. It's a hybrid game and that's kind of tricky to get these lists of these games together We kind of debated offline You know what constitutes an rts game

[00:27:48] For example, it's something like total war Valid for this list and we kind of said that's more leans on the forex side of the strategy side and not necessarily the real time Side so that was admitted

[00:27:57] But this is a game that is more heavily on the real-time strategy side and the forex stuff is kind of like a side to it Even though you can pause it's still a very active game You're constantly creating ships and constantly sending them sending them across hyper lanes

[00:28:12] To other planets and invading and while it looks like A forex game the maps aren't that large. In fact, they're probably smaller than you realize Um, and you're not necessarily building on planets per se like you might think like in other games

[00:28:25] You're just fighting over them. Uh, when you're actually doing the combat and you're giving orders is very much hands-on There's like a huge awesome tech tree to customize your ships as they go there's

[00:28:36] Several different factions again very rts like but I really like the I just I really like the idea of like your The battlefields are on a planet and there's a good gravity well

[00:28:45] And how you're moving across like around the orbits of the planets to get the right spot to attack the enemy And it felt very tactical when your ish and commands just on a single planet

[00:28:53] And then you can do that across the entire solar system. I really thought it was a really great look I haven't seen any other game Do it like this right like I've played other games

[00:29:03] But they're too heavily on the forex side like games like stelaurus or galactic civilizations I mean, I think gcu can't even control your units. Um, but this is one where it's it's the best parts of forex I like

[00:29:14] But all the awesome real-time battles that I thought was really rad for the for for the uh the genre So I know this game is pretty solid. It got a sequel. I I heard it did not do nearly as good

[00:29:25] It's a very small team that makes this game. Uh, in fact when they released it They supported it for like I think really four years releasing multiple expansions and then the last one they released was start sends a solar empire rebellion

[00:29:37] Which is kind of like the ultimate gold edition and they added a crap ton of content Titan ships like one-of-a-kind factionships that are really powerful and all kinds of great stuff diplomacy and you know Espionage I think was part of it building more fortifications around planets

[00:29:52] It's just it's a really solid package of a game. Music's great graphics are good It's just a game that I wish was a franchise Instead of basically a one-off or I guess a two-off that didn't do so well

[00:30:04] What has the cooler title between the two? That is true Sins of a solar empire is pretty unique. Yes Yeah, uh, I will say because I've not played either of these watching the videos of them Um, I think I'd be more likely to play dune too Uh

[00:30:23] One the music is awesome. I like the little art style and the way the game is presented too Uh, when I play a a game that takes place that far zoomed out in space with like tactical and stuff because even uh

[00:30:36] Was it spore kind of hit a point where it was sort of tactical? strategy in you know Multiple solar systems and everything at the end and it kind of brings me down. It bums me out The vast emptiness of space

[00:30:53] Yes, you can zoom in you can zoom in I understand that but I mean it's just You think about it. It's like man all this is probably take a place over years and years, you know It's it's depressing This war is four thousand light years away

[00:31:12] It's already over. We're just watching it That's good I never thought of it that way It's hard because I do like dune too a lot like I love dune too I played the crap out of this game on the genesis

[00:31:27] And this is before the movies. This is before I even read the books Just the the concept of this desert planet that's in the future and they're fighting over over like salt and pepper

[00:31:36] In the sand I thought was pretty good. So I do like both of these games So I'm fine if you guys want to vote feb vote me on this one all right I guess that's three for dune and one for solar sin Yeah, dune is star wars for

[00:31:54] cool fans I think I like it was presented. I like it's very apt That is apt. I like it Okay, dune two moves on to the second round. Sorry sins of the solar empire, but you've sinned too much It's time to dip

[00:32:10] Jake has switched on me if as if he thinks I'm going to call him in a different level of row That's not going to trick you you will not bamboozle me sir

[00:32:18] I won't have it. Sorry when I left the room I screwed up the name. So I'm just just don't worry about it. It's It's fixed. I'm done moving things around wonderful. All right now that I'm Thoroughly dizzy

[00:32:32] Okay, we're going to move on to the next one. I'm going to save my favorite for last So we're going to move on to these two here Which is an interesting matchup We're going to go with war warcraft 2 tides of darkness versus warcraft 3

[00:32:51] The throes and fro the throes and fro there. Oh that algorithm throw Does anybody else here have any strong opinions on this matchup? Can we abstain is that allowable? Like no, I'll tell you what I'll go on my my my world of my my warcraft 2

[00:33:10] We're one of world warcraft 2 was kind of the first rts that I was like into Actually to the point of where there's a character in that that I originally got my first

[00:33:20] Internet name from grom hell scream was uh, I was a big fan of that name. I thought that was a cool name so I ran with hell scream for a long time before charred monk and Decided to change it because hell scream was hard to put on

[00:33:34] emails to people And it was awkward. So we we changed that up, but um, I uh, I really enjoyed warcraft I really like the aspect of the tool factions again looking back Probably hasn't aged well It's still warcraft, but it's still it was still really cool

[00:33:53] This was one of the first games that I was like wanting to get home from school To start playing and move the campaign forward and And figure out how to unlock the next faction because you start with the humans

[00:34:03] You know and then you have to like fight to get to the orcs and all that stuff It was neat. It had pretty cool little, you know FMV cgi cutscenes that were kind of new at the time for 1999, you know

[00:34:17] I don't know it it got me into the rts The little bit of rts that I play it got me into it. It was the gateway drug into my rts life, which is not It's not vast clearly from this episode so

[00:34:33] My vote is warcraft 2 because of what it did for me for the future of my rts love. So That's that's it Uh, just for the record warcraft 2 did come out in 95 originally 95 my bad. Yes. I thought I saw 99 Um, I read it wrong

[00:34:51] a little more like it it hit consoles at 97 but Mac and pc it was 95. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you for correcting me. So for me I was super excited for warcraft 3 because I absolutely love Warcraft 2 Absolutely love the damn game. I have it for the sadder

[00:35:16] That was my first real that was my first rts because I was playing Warcraft 2 uh in the computer lab with friends In freshman year. That's what I was interested in. Yeah, and uh

[00:35:30] You know, I I came in and my friends were teaching me how to play and all of a sudden I started kicking everyone's ass like These people were familiar with warcraft 1 and had played that and I come in and I was just stomping them

[00:35:43] You know, I lost my first round and then after that I was like I get this game now And just dominated and so I got the Saturn game so I could play it at home because I didn't have a pc

[00:35:53] I found it. I found out it was on saturday and I was like shit. Yeah, I'm gonna play this and so I picked it up and Absolutely loved it for the record the file size is bigger than the the memory that's in the Saturn

[00:36:07] You have to have a memory card to be able to save your file after a point But uh, I absolutely loved warcraft 2 the music the characters you click on them and they just

[00:36:20] They get annoyed with you if you click on them too many times. Yeah, it's I love that Warcraft 3 came along and I was so excited And then I started playing it and I was like What happened to naval combat? Why did they remove naval combat? It's just god

[00:36:38] Yeah, like naval combat was one of the best parts of warcraft 2 And then they were like all right instead you get heroes and I was like well that just feels like op Right, I understand the hero mechanic. It's interesting

[00:36:55] Uh, ultimately I do think it's what led to world of warcraft because I know warcraft 3 Our uh warcraft 3 was used as a beta engine for world of warcraft when they were initially planning it out

[00:37:08] You can see the artistic like similarities in that game with there's actually screenshots that you can find online And it looks ridiculous because it's warcraft 3 but um I don't think the trade-off was worth it. I don't think the hero system was worth the loss of naval combat

[00:37:28] I I do like the different factions that they have because they had more than two this time, which was great but I just I can't get behind the heroes over The naval combat the naval combat was like

[00:37:43] That's the second brand. That's the second round of a battle in warcraft 2 Right, right. Yep. Before you get to all the boats and sinking them when they go high in the water Yeah, and warcraft 3 was just like, all right. You could fly now right, right

[00:38:00] It's like your character's just walk over the water like because the water is never any deep body of water It's always just bottles and swamps and shit. So No, it's is warcraft 2 for me warcraft 2 wins this round Okay, love it

[00:38:16] So, I mean the thing for me in in warcraft 3 I thought there'd be more love for this game. Um The reason why I don't like it Front with it is it has it's the same thing what what starcraft 2 had as well

[00:38:29] Is that there's these there's occasionally these missions where you have to defend for a solid 30 minutes And as you go it gets worse and worse and harder and harder Floods of enemies come at you and you're kind of you're kind of hanging on

[00:38:41] And my problem with those is I'm not very good at these games And if you fail you have to start all over again, and it's another 30 goddamn minutes I kept getting to like minute 28 27 and dying and having to restart and I got really frustrated real fast

[00:38:54] Outside of the defense missions though. I loved warcraft 3. I played the hell out of it. I really love the factions. They are very much different I mean, I love that the night elves are great and the humans are awesome

[00:39:05] It's just the undead are cool like it's a really cool system This is this is the game. I think that really hammered home Blizzard's ability to tell a story where they're cinematics, right? I mean everybody loves world warcraft and the story of arthas and stuff

[00:39:20] But I mean this is the game where he turned right that the cinematic which is iconic where arthas walks in and kills his father That was this game, right? That was it was warcraft 3 The storytelling is awesome in this game. I can see the issue with

[00:39:34] Warcraft 2 is more about exploring a map And I did like how you could load people on a boat and you you bring them across to another land That was interesting

[00:39:43] And you lose that in this game if this game is more is more focused on squad tactics in a way smaller groups to the point where one the one of the great things about this game was its mod ability and

[00:39:56] One particular person took the idea of making a mod where you're exclusively based around the hero units And it's all about small squad tactics, right? And that's where we got dota from right defense of the ancients was a mod map for warcraft 3

[00:40:08] And that's that was a start of an entire freaking genre of games, right? One of the most popular games right now people play is league of legends, which is basically a spin-off for a reimagining or ripoff how we want to call it of of dota dota 2

[00:40:23] And of course that goes back to warcraft 3 so we have a whole genre of games because of warcraft 3 is modding And that's pretty fantastic. I mean I do like warcraft 2 a lot Much like you guys

[00:40:33] I think my first time playing it was also in the school computer lab On an old mac because I mean note who had a pc as a kid And I do have some fond memories of playing that game, but Warcraft 3 is music the story beats the the

[00:40:48] The graphics are great the character design. I think it's really good Say what you want about world of warcraft But I mean that game wouldn't exist that the designs and story that was started here in warcraft 3 So for me, it's warcraft 3 there's a there's an impact

[00:41:00] I think with warcraft 3 that you don't see what the first game or the other I mean I do I do agree story wise warcraft 3 is great, but Sometimes you don't want to like especially with this type of game where you're sinking so much time into it

[00:41:16] I don't want to suffer through mechanics to get a good story Yeah That's my issue with it is I've never even beaten warcraft 3 because I got fed up with the mechanics I've beaten warcraft 2 Since playing warcraft 3 With both factions So

[00:41:38] I just like the broader look. I like the I like the the the actual army style The actual the rts portion now i'm not saying 3 isn't but like you said it's more smaller squad tactics Well, this is more our moda sending out massive units to go and just

[00:41:55] You know raise buildings and plunder and destroy and and just get into those those all-out battles It's just a lot of fun and And wolf's mentioning of the the naval the naval battles are cool But I always was so mad when you'd wipe out an entire

[00:42:12] You know team and you're like Why haven't we ended this yet? There's nothing left and there's that little small section of fog of war And you float a scout over there and it clears it and it's like two goddamn peasant boats

[00:42:26] That they can't attack they just use it to get oil from the water But they ran down to the corner and you can't find them so until you kill them

[00:42:34] You can't move on to the next level. It was the only thing that irritated the hell out of me, but I I loved it I Yeah, this was this was a great Start I like I like the army foundation versus the squad squad tactic stuff so

[00:42:48] So yeah, that's that's two is a I think two is a fantastic Very cool. I'm assuming two wins. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I'll throw in my my vote here real quick and then do quick two quick little the sides

[00:43:01] But yes, uh warcraft 2 is going to win this one. That's that's where my vote goes Uh all respect to three Yeah, two. I think is iconic and Uh, you guys kind of covered everything. I'm not going to go too far into that

[00:43:15] One thing that wolf said that I wanted to point out you had said something about Uh fumbling through some mediocre mechanics to get to a good story Is the exact inverse of I'm sorry this game gets brought up so much funnel fantasy tactics

[00:43:30] You're meandering through a decent story to get to really great mechanics Right. Um, and then uh, the other thing I want to ask wolf real quick is in your background You have the the the logo on your wall with the lights. Yeah directly below that

[00:43:46] Is that an audio recording of steve martins born standing up? Uh, yeah, I believe that's the album it is. I also have let's get small but that's not on the wall right now

[00:43:58] Yeah, I I've got that book and I was looking at that trying to decide that I'm like that looks like the cover of the book So no, no, I think it's wild and crazy. Let me see now you've made him leave his chair

[00:44:12] He's brimming his office. He's losing his mind. That's my trope. Yeah, it's it's a wild and crazy guy not born standing up Okay, well if you haven't seen the cover of born standing up

[00:44:21] You will image that and then compare it because that is a very classic and very obvious steve martin stance That's all I got right uh long short short warcraft 2 That yes Danny carry is an amazing drummer warcraft 2-wits. Yeah, okay cool That's

[00:44:47] We have envelopes we could be doing envelopes instead of picking the wrong name Remember how how man in conquer lost We're using those. I don't know if we trust the envelopes after that one Oh boy after turd off the ioc is busy this current season right now. So

[00:45:05] In defense of jake my suggestion of brutal legend was like 70% joke The meme that made it. Yeah, the meme that made it The hawk twat of Oh no, don't go there

[00:45:22] That's you don't need that somebody money now for that never mind. Let's let's get on tiktok. All right, I like turtle That's owner her hats. That's that's what she's got juice. Um, all right so our last setup

[00:45:37] For tonight is one of my personal favorites versus one that I have unfortunately not played but wanted to play because I've seen some Really cool gameplay of it But this one for me is is tops in rts's

[00:45:51] And I still have it to this day and we'll still play it to this day Rise of nations versus age of empires 2 Now i'll go ahead and go on my little my little tirade here since we're we'll just fire it off here

[00:46:03] Rise of nations is an incredible rts game that basically starts you out at the at the stone age at the bottom of The drum you're building stuff out of wood You're throwing stones and sticks at people like it's legit bottom bottom rung

[00:46:18] You know starting out very neanderthalic as you progress you can advance your civilization And the idea of this game is to advance your civilization Faster than your enemy can advance your civilization

[00:46:31] So basically when you start shooting you start out with like bows and arrows and catapults and stuff And you move all the way up to tanks and f16s and nuclear weaponry and all kinds of stuff like that like it goes all the way up

[00:46:44] And if if you can get your Your you know your team up faster and more advanced Then you destroy the other team and there are times where you do it so quickly That you you literally have flying cars around your area

[00:46:56] And they're still throwing sticks and stones at you and you just drop a nuke on them and completely wipe out the entire team It's it's a lot of fun I play I played this religiously with co-workers when I was in Germany for a long long time

[00:47:10] I loved this game. This game was just so much fun. I thought I had a really unique you know system of advancement as you keep going it's like

[00:47:19] It's like sim city but dangerous, you know, it's it's just really really kind of cool and and I really thought it was Well thought out and I still have it and I still love playing it So my vote for this 100% from blunder buses to nuclear warheads

[00:47:35] Rise of nations is definitely my number one rts Should I defend age of empires they made it familiar with that one? I want to I am very familiar with age of empires. Okay charge. You remember how you were complaining about naval combat with warcraft 2

[00:47:54] Oh my god in age of empires My buddy and I used to play age of empires and then age of empires too later We would have like 14 hour sessions

[00:48:07] And I mean that's loose like it would be 14 hours from start to end like we'd break it up by like Going and getting dinner at Denny's and shit and come back and finish but He would play against each other in this game for like overnight

[00:48:23] We'd go to each other's plays hook up the computers and just play all night and oh my gosh He would get so pissed at me Because I would have planned bcdef I set up a dock

[00:48:42] And build a boat to like send some some of the little peasants out onto it and Ship them into the middle of the ocean where they would not be found and I would destroy my dock So that he would not know I did that there I know

[00:49:00] That's right And so then he'd like he'd have a particularly good match where he'd like destroy me He would be like How come I haven't won yet? What the hell you I don't see your guys anymore And I've got like three extra bases being built

[00:49:18] He thinks he's found my he found my starter base He has not found my other bases that are all building up trying to prepare And not only that like we we had a point where um it just went from You get as quickly as possible to priests

[00:49:37] And you just swarm your enemy with priests and convert everybody So much won alone. It was ridiculous. That's awesome. That's cool So I absolutely love Age of Empires too that said I've never played Rise of Nations

[00:49:53] But watching the videos of it. It does look absolutely awesome and like something I would love to play um Are there any units like priests? I don't think so. I don't recall no, I don't remember again

[00:50:09] I like the aspect of just advancing your your nation and sending in b-52 bombers When they're still building pyramids, you know, it's just kind of like

[00:50:20] When you when you when you blow someone back to the stone age you legit do it in this game like it's it's free I seem to remember you can build nuclear silos to shoot missiles if I remember right you can you can build silos and

[00:50:34] No matter which player but once players start using the nuclear missiles There's a counter doomsday counter and the game ends if you hit that doomsday counter because I remember I remember this now

[00:50:44] My buddies would build all the freaking missile silos and it would be a cold war standoff because the first person to use missiles You all start doing it and the game is over and I thought that was you all lose was freaking rad. Yeah, you all lose nobody

[00:50:56] Nobody You get like six missile silos and you just fire six off of them and you're just like I don't care what the world is You're going down with me. I give a shit like it's sacrifice the planet

[00:51:06] It's the last three hours of gameplay. No one nobody won nobody. What yeah, it's it's cool It's it's a lot of fun and and where Where my where some of my beef with like warcraft was you can only have like

[00:51:19] 12 units selected at a time this one you can have It seems like hundreds of people that you can move around at a time. So it's yeah Yeah, I don't know if it has priests. I think the priest conversion thing is a unique unique feature

[00:51:36] Age of Empires sounds freaking cool though Um, but I've always just been more into the like the whole like futuristic Being able to to grow your nation of that stuff. So But it sounds like we got one for one on this one so far. Yeah

[00:51:51] Yeah, I vote Age of Empires to you on this one. Um there I'll go empires Heartbreaker Yeah, I know you hate to see it and um I

[00:52:06] It's not an arbitrary thing, but really I don't remember the name of the other ones. So I'm going to go with empires If I told you would you change mine I'm I'm kidding. Um, yeah, this is one where I don't really have a ton of

[00:52:22] expertise or experienced outside of watching um, you know other people play but um That said I am more familiar with empires and um, well, I haven't played it It has been fun to watch and I understand the mechanics and it seems um,

[00:52:38] I don't say enthralling but like a good time. So I'm giving That one's to gb after this episode. Don't do it if you do I swear to god, I will send you a copy of getting over it Signed someone I don't even know who you have to be

[00:52:54] That's mean. I'm trying to be nice. I'm in I'm giving you something I enjoy You guys want me to get my penitent run going let's let's

[00:53:01] Let's put getting over it on the wheel of shame. You know lots of time gp. You got at least five months. You're good Already july this is Anyway, yeah, so empires Uh, sorry. I I know I'm kind of you're fine. Jake. Don't let me down

[00:53:17] Okay, so I like both these games a lot Um, whereas I didn't have as much experience with warcraft uh in starcraft I think as you guys might have for me and my friend group when I did have a pc

[00:53:28] It was a lot of age of empires and then resonations and um Age of empires too I mean, this is the game where you get that sound effect. Wo lo lo. Wo lo lo. Yeah, that's what I said so much

[00:53:40] Wo lo lo it's legendary right like I love that I love the sound effects that you were really good in it I like the big armies and the in the naval combat is really awesome

[00:53:50] There's a lot to love about age of empires. I played the hell out of this I used to play as I think it was a two tons I'm probably saying that wrong But they got a bonus to building structures and I used to be building walls

[00:54:00] I was that asshole who who would purposely go to the corner off of the distance and have a build not one Not two but like five fucking layers of just walls And hide inside my five walls by fortress and draw the match out for two hours

[00:54:15] I was that guy I'd love building walls in this game and I wish more games More real-time strategy games let you kind of build cities in that way I loved it for that. Um Rise nations though is got a fantastic not just multiplayer

[00:54:31] But single player campaign is really good much like dune. It's got like a campaign map And as you it's it's i'm not gonna say it's risk But it's it feels like a board game in a way where once you take over one territory

[00:54:42] It does certain bonuses to other territories. It's really well done for a single player I think I recall from the reviews of the time that was one of the selling points

[00:54:49] The single player campaign was was not just like for story or the story driven thing. It was just mechanically fun Um, and it's just it's hard to doubt how many different eras are in this game And how many different types of units there are?

[00:55:02] Like you got literally like you said charred you guys you guys are throwing stones And then you move up your way up to muskets and and swords and muskets tanks Freakin I think you get up to a modern year era. I think it is

[00:55:14] I confused this one with our empire earth a little bit, but I love it. I love the different factions I think was this the one where russia's its power russia was attrition where you lose you lose health when you're in their borders or something

[00:55:26] That might have been empire earth, but yep, but the factions are really interesting really well designed This is another one where I think there was a sequel to it But they they went kind of weird with it

[00:55:37] In the sequel I think there was like a da Vinci faction and they kind of got strange with the technology trees And I didn't quite like it, but this I always went back to this one It just just enough realism

[00:55:47] But then also it got really weird when you have the guys who's an era behind you coming at with you with muskets Or swords and you got fucking tanks. I really loved it and plus the nuke thing the nuke thing was The nuke thing is unique

[00:56:00] Like I have not seen that in any other rts game the idea where you have a legit cold war scenario when you're playing with Four or five people and you're all sitting at the same era and you're at a stalemate and it's nukes

[00:56:11] And I think that's funny is basically whoever has to go to the bathroom or dinner first Starts launching missiles. Yeah, yep Yep, whatever your mom was your mom was the true victor because she'd call you away from your game

[00:56:22] And you're like and I can't defend I can't defend my nation It's it's it's really awesome. I love ageniverse 2 a lot Specifically age of empires 2 that one I played a ton of it. It's so good

[00:56:34] But if rise nations to me is the better game so like I it's hard because I like both of these So I'm going to go with resignations as well Wait, all right. So we're out of stalemate with this one

[00:56:45] I would like to change my vote to rise of nations Wow, pick a color Really Green They're not all bad. I swear. They're not they're not they're not all jokes rock three Lemmings lemmings you just used four man Lemmings is an rts game Is it It totally is

[00:57:09] Okay, are you at war? No, but it's real time That's strategy. You're controlling little guys across the stream Using abilities to kind of take over the tactical advantage and beat the level so what the pick is lemmings I don't think anybody's gonna change their mind on this. No

[00:57:27] Lemmings is puzzle. I'm at yellow Did I say green? I'm sorry. I'm at yellow Safety green so yellow Yeah, there you go Pikmin Pikmin is a solid pick okay Lemmings is a damn rts game and if anybody else there, please back me up in comments on discord

[00:57:51] That's like what was that thing you said once circus charlie is an rpg or whatever that nonsense was Circus charlie has many layers gp. It's it's okay. So we're throwing in we're throwing in pikmin Yeah, what's the argument here pikmin could possibly win between empires and nations

[00:58:09] Yeah, it's a family whole story The names themselves Are hard to topple with the word pikmin Do you guys not like pikmin if you guys not i'm not changing my vote

[00:58:22] We'll not be changing. I do like pikmin, but i'm not changing my vote. I like age of empires I will change my vote. I hadn't thought of it through the lens of pikmin So, uh, yeah, i'll switch mine to whatever will advance the narrative and uh

[00:58:38] No, honestly what what you guys are saying. I I was unaware of the doomsday clock mechanic Um, I think that's great. I think that The the logic there of well, this is where we are as a society It's kind of the end game

[00:58:53] But also maybe we just don't have the sight to see what would be beyond that doomsday clock running out Um, and then just to kind of capstone it with whoever has to go to dinner first Is going to cause the fall of humankind

[00:59:07] So yeah, I'll go with with the game that has the doomsday clock Okay, rise of nations. All right rise of nations nations moves forward. Let's go. I'm not upset about that

[00:59:18] Yeah, they're both really good. Those are hard choice. You even fires look like is a classic, you know On this side of it pick up rise of nations next time it's on sale and it looks like on this side of it

[00:59:28] Looks like every steam sale that one had the better elevator sales pitch going from what I was listening with you guys So the great thing too is both of these games actually got recent HD releases I think it was rise nations but I think it was 2014

[00:59:40] They did a remake or a release and it runs on all modern hardware It looks great and then age of empires two Had an hd version and I think they've added new stuff to it, which is kind of neat

[00:59:49] So yeah, both are the easiest to play nowadays and they've ever had them before so it's they're they're both great games Okay All right We made it through the first round gentlemen. We are only an hour and eight minutes hit

[01:00:03] Oh, this is quick. I'm just gonna go two fucking hours. Yeah The back half of the way is faster We're gonna turn and burn on these last these last two tiers. So Are we gonna have a loser's bracket too? Do we want to do the loser's bracket? Yes?

[01:00:14] Yes, we should do the loser bracket. All right. So there's there's three tiers left All right, let's jump right in warcraft two tides of darkness versus starcraft brood wars Warcraft Warcraft two Starcraft the impact esports Starcraft I like to hear sinister screaming I can't do

[01:00:42] I love the mechanics of starcraft. I like what they did to make it a little different from warcraft I will not I will not Deny warcraft two What it's done for me in my rts life, which honestly to be fair It wasn't a whole hell a lot

[01:00:57] But it was it was a huge game and it led me into a very long dark Tunnel of rts's for a very long time Which then led me to my favorite rts of risinations. So but I just I love the starcraft setup

[01:01:11] I love the three different factions and I love the differentiation between the two So I'm just you know lemmings I have one more envelope But I'm not going to tell you guys because you're gonna shit all over it and something tells me you didn't play it

[01:01:24] Anyway, so it's fine So when you know the tiebreaker do we do we dare we go to fucking metacritic? where jake Mario golf toadstool tour it is a real-time strategy and uh Things change on the mario cart Mario cart double dash

[01:01:43] Do not be smirked the good name of double dash You know quidditch On the game cube It's a pretty good strategy game. All right, are we gonna metacritic the winner you're controlling people Wolf how close are you to changing over to starcraft?

[01:02:02] I am not. I don't like starcraft Yeah, I'm with you. I'm in the warcraft. You know what camp pretty firmly I i'll be the hero of this episode and I will I will refrain from my starcraft vote and I will change to world of warcraft

[01:02:16] I will change to warcraft too because Of what it did for me in my past to get me to starcraft So we can all those starcraft is pretty great We don't have to go to metacritic because I know how much jake hates metacritic

[01:02:27] And i'm doing this for you jake because I like starcraft more You know what it is You know what it is is that there was a the version of starcraft. I played I rented it Was on the n64

[01:02:38] And that that's what i'm worried about there's an n64 version of starcraft 2 and I won or starcraft Sorry, and I wonder if that's gonna mess things up a metacritic. I'll get screwed again Um to be fair warcraft 2 it doesn't appear to be on metacritic except for reforged

[01:02:53] And I know reforged was oh that was awful pretty pretty heavily paid. So so by default Warcraft 2 Also chart already changes though Wholeheartedly and without without I will I will fall on the sword tonight everybody know that I love starcraft

[01:03:13] But i'm doing it for this episode starcraft. I want you to know that your number one acolyte has abandoned you All right all right God, I love starcraft son of a bitch. All right last two For this tear No, we have a loser bracket hurts to be

[01:03:33] It hurts to be the martyr Dune 2 versus rise of nations. You know my vote Oh, I'm gonna have to go rise of nations on this one. Like I said, it looks absolutely like something I would love It looks so much like age of empires

[01:03:47] But with that technology scaling thing. I I like this is a game I'd never looked at before and i'm like, oh, why did I never look at this before? So Resonations Dune is our dune is dune though. It's really fucking good

[01:04:05] Like the atmosphere of the theming of it is really well done like this made me like dune before I read the damn books like Dune is pretty good. Resonations is excellent though Okay I get you but yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be nations on this one

[01:04:21] I already get yeah, I already gave up my my seat. All right. I'm not giving up another one Are you doing nations then charred? Absolutely, I'm going fine then I'll take dune 2 and I'll I'll give it the one vote. So Lisa gets some kind of love

[01:04:34] It's fine. All right I'm running nations all the way out of here nations is going all the way out for me. So All right easy peasy. Okay. So we do loser's bracket now for bronze. All right. Yeah, so Losers bracket for for the bronze medal the brass ring

[01:04:53] Starcraft brood war versus dune 2 I'm gonna reclaim my my seat and I'm going with starcraft Because I love it But I'm gonna lose Jake Dune 2 because it's like one of the earliest rts games if people consider one of the Almost the first one with the resource

[01:05:17] Like starcraft is good. I like starcraft don't get me wrong, but Dune 2 I think I think needs to be one in the top three. So I'd rather pick dune 2

[01:05:25] I'm not mad to lose the dune 2. I'm not mad to lose the dune 2. That's it's a good game and it's and it's It's an early pig. No, I'm not mad at that one at all

[01:05:33] That's a hard one. I just love starcraft so much, but I respect dune 2 very much Okay, so gold and silver It's gonna go to either craft or rise of nations I my opinion for gold rise of nations, of course

[01:05:49] Followed by warcraft 2 for silver and of course dune 2 for brats. That's that's where I'd like to see things sit Hear me out instead of warcraft 2 with general chaos The warcraft 2 for gold they played general chaos over

[01:06:10] So i'm kind of the inverse of chart on this one. I'm sorry buddy But uh just by virtue of being more familiar with warcraft and having a little bit of experience there Warcraft over nations for me fair As much as I absolutely love warcraft 2

[01:06:26] I feel like warcraft 2 crawled so so many rts games could run And rise of nations looks like one of those that ran With what warcraft 2 started. So absolutely I i'm gonna join you charred with rise of nations. I think warcraft 2 is amazing I don't think it's gold worthy

[01:06:46] But silver absolutely fair All right, jake, it's you and me buddy. Let's take him down Rise nations as gold, but I don't think warcraft 2 is silver. I think warcraft 2 is like Hey, you guys put this here listen, yeah Yeah, fine rise nations definitely gold

[01:07:06] I reluctantly released my seed. It should be starcraft personally, but that's just me Okay So look at that that took us 15 minutes to knock those two segments out See we get along we don't argue On the Saturn No Toys and russe brand new

[01:07:28] That one goes to the silver for a game. I haven't yet played but like the sound of it It's a good game I'm sure I mean, you know what's wild. That is not this is not how I saw this episode going

[01:07:43] Uh, but that's good. I like that. I like it when I can't predict things. So well done tell us Right. What's wild is command and conquer red alert had a psp version. Can you imagine playing that game on a psp?

[01:07:55] I have a hard enough time playing rps is on my steam deck let alone. By the way, it made it zero steps like It didn't give him get out of the gate What was the star was here protected

[01:08:10] I got a quick honorable mention. Um, yeah, jeff you're pointing out in check, right? It's empire earth was the other one I played a lot of Rise nations I liked better for the single player mode. I thought was fantastic

[01:08:20] But empire earth was also one where you go from caveman Literally to the far flung future with mechs and that was wild It wasn't as good gameplay wise, but it had a bigger scope than even rise nations

[01:08:32] Which is kind of cool and that was one that got got screwed But was empire earth uh an rts? Rts and it was all um

[01:08:42] I want to say it was all polygons. It was all 3d models and that's why it was a little bit different than rise nations Which was 2d sprites right Oh, okay. I was confusing that with something else. I got you

[01:08:59] Wow another another bracketology in the books. I gotta say I love every time we do these episodes And we don't hate each other afterwards so that's that's yeah More than you did an hour 18 minutes ago

[01:09:15] I am not mad at how this panned out at all. No, maybe I was and I came in rooting for age of empires too, so But like jake and I should start selling stuff We're a good team on selling rise nations to people

[01:09:30] It looks so similar and so different in a good way That I absolutely want to try and they're both Published by xbox game studios or microsoft studios or whatever like it's the same umbrella

[01:09:43] Um, right. I'm gonna find a way to play command and conquer. It's been too long uh Yeah, and I'll probably check out a couple of the things Just uh just to say that i've got a little bit more experience with the rts is because

[01:09:57] Really, I'm i'm pretty limited in my scope here. So that would be fun to Check out. Also, it's jake. How did you how did you lemmings and not rim world Yeah

[01:10:12] Lemmings that's like uh, what are you rim jokes rim worlds like a crosskunk is more is more of an rts than Lemmings is kind of like the next evolution or like the granddaddy to pikmin right you're controlling the little guys

[01:10:25] You're moving your little guys on the map like telling what to do like that's that's real time strategy It's just not it's just not you know head to head. Although there is two player lemmings on genesis It's just kind of like an rts game too

[01:10:37] I don't know like you guys just don't like good games. I don't know what to tell you like it just Same swing I had to give up a vote because you wouldn't let go of one

[01:10:47] I can't think of what they're called now, but it's like the beshito blade kind of things Forgive me that that's gonna sound wrong dynasty warriors I rule warriors I rule warriors. Yeah the warriors now you're just talking crazy. That's an rts when you control one fucking guy

[01:11:07] Also called a video game Yeah, like that's just warcraft 3 right? Yeah, right You can troll the units of warcraft 3 We're running a squad In funnel fantasy 6 I had four different people at once at the end there were 17 total options That's the real rts game right there

[01:11:26] I I'm gonna say though that for the longest time it felt like we kind of Didn't get any new rts games for quite a while because there was such a focus on dota and league

[01:11:35] And it kind of burned people out of the genre. I think but now they're coming back There's been a lot of releases Maybe it's microsoft mining its ip chest that's been assembling over the last 10 years

[01:11:45] But there's been a lot more remakes of things. I think it was the age of a mythology Is getting a modern remaster and that was another one that was pretty solid too So it's the age of empires but mythical creatures and that was decent

[01:11:55] I'm still eyeballing dune spice war, which is the the newest rts Based around or yeah based around the dune series. I hope that's on steam I I I it's got fairly good reviews from what it looks like it just it came out a few months ago

[01:12:10] I think so it's still relatively new But that would definitely be one i'd like to play I think the biggest turnoff to it was I couldn't play it on my steam deck downstairs So it was like man

[01:12:19] But I would love to I would love to give that one a whirl as well Jeff is mentioning star trek amada 2 I played that one and I couldn't figure it out. I think I got too confused if i'm remembering it right But I had my big fan

[01:12:34] Halo wars as well. I didn't play halo wars. Was that on the original xbox or was that pc only? I would imagine that was on one of the xbox platforms Yeah, I don't know if I think that was on the original xbox if not it was 360

[01:12:49] But yeah, I feel like that franchise is so iconically xbox it had I mean there's no way it's not on there somewhere Okay, right at least the beginning era is and I think that was still pretty early in there in the halo world Halo wars was

[01:13:04] Uh came out in 2009. So i'm thinking 360 Okay, I should give that shot. I I kind of missed the bus on halo I like I never really got into the halo fps games until recently

[01:13:15] But I should try that strategy game out. There's definitely a lot of lore in halo. I respect and that Kind of should give it a shot Lore I am the lore book all right guys Well, that was a rousing episode

[01:13:29] I'm happy with our decisions here. Thank you guys for coming out. Let's go round robin. Do we have Sinister will listen to this later and tell us how long we all are

[01:13:38] He's never heard the end of this burn it to the ground. Oh, he's gonna burn it to the ground Can't wait super excited. We're gonna talk about dc and marvel movies for two hours. I just I threw it out there. I tried

[01:13:49] I just wanted to turn this into a risonation discussion. That's all I thought It is good Yeah, all right. Let's go round robin gentlemen Do we have anything that we would like to announce or that's coming up or that we're working on gp?

[01:14:02] Let's go with you first sir I am working on a very big project. It's not going to be done for a couple more years So it'd be way too premature for me to really get into that here

[01:14:15] That word's a trigger word in this house, so be careful how you use it I got you. So I will I will abstain from saying anything although I have recently unpacked all of my collections

[01:14:27] From the therapy days and the one game that really stands out to me because I'm going to get a two week break here soon is uh metroid prime and now with the uh, the

[01:14:36] You know mention of prime 4 happening. I really want to go back and play that on the okay, but the the version I have is the metal box for Oh The way

[01:14:46] So I'm gonna I'm going to be going through that kind of in whatever downtime I can eke out But other than that absolutely not. I don't have anything going on um Yeah, thank you for asking. Yeah, of course Werewolf how about user? um

[01:15:03] I started playing slashers keep recently and tried recording a couple I might go back and re-record it now that I have a better understanding of how the game works So I don't look like a total moron just being boring, but uh

[01:15:20] I I absolutely love the ring. That's you're you're probably fine There it is We're showing them off the audio listeners. They're showing off their game collection and lore books Is that hold on that this Yeah, that's that that is my own p90x. Yes

[01:15:42] The elder ring is my own p90x. That's why I'm not losing weight, but I sweat a lot Jake how about you? What do you got coming up, sir? I mean I was playing through ellen wake because you and are going to episode on that

[01:15:53] But then I got derailed because you um you you pointed and showed me how good elder ring is again So don't don't blame me for finally understanding what an amazing game that game is

[01:16:03] Well, I mean you guys also told me that instead of three fighter six diamond rank My state of execution is to play elven ring in millennia. So I've been playing a lot of hell of a lot of that

[01:16:12] And I'm actually making amazing progress. I'm almost done. I think I've gotten Was it margot the margot the omen king? I just killed him and I'm kind of going through the land of giants

[01:16:22] Uh, so I just have to find millennia kill her which I heard was easy, right? No problem And then beat the game and then I'm gonna pick up the dlc because um I've been watching a little bit of you play and it looks fantastic. So my favorite thing

[01:16:36] My favorite thing about the discussion is that jake thinks he's almost finished. Um, how can I not be? So Jake what did we learn about picking our sycophie in game? Uh next year i'm picking circus charlie because that's that's the game that I should be

[01:16:53] Okay, yeah, but I should beat it more I What if my challenge is to beat it three times in a row that's that's might that will be my challenge All right, and uh, you can find me hitting my head against the wall

[01:17:12] Against uh consort rodan over at uh, www.twitch.tv forward slash charred monk Uh I might i'm thinking about jumping on tonight and i'm thinking about doing a chill get it frostpunk streamer night chill

[01:17:28] Because it's cold frostpunk stream just because it was a lot of fun to play I was i was messing around with it and I want to get a little bit deeper into it

[01:17:34] And he needed a break for running into the wall that I ran into last night for two and two hours 45 minutes So how have you been playing frostpunk thus far? I'm curious With my mouse and keyboard. Oh on your computer not on the steam

[01:17:46] Yeah, no, I I messed around with it on the steam deck and it was a little difficult So I came up here and played it until I burned this literally burned myself out of the room because it was too hot

[01:17:53] Um, but it was a lot of fun actually playing a cold game in a hot room really fucks with your brain Really bad So I was like is it why am I sweating there's ice everywhere? Oh wait. No, it's 102 outside

[01:18:08] Um, but so I'll be doing that also. Let's give uh, let's give our buddy a sinistar shout out as well DJ spinnastar has been hitting has been hitting those turn tables quite often

[01:18:22] During mondays and tuesdays. I believe it's usually five p.m. My time so eight p.m. Eastern six p.m. Mountain and Central is seven Yeah, no time zones are cool. Um, so go and give him a follow if you haven't already

[01:18:39] Love jamming with him when I'm just hanging out. It's good to hear some Cool industrial music or some, you know 80s rock that I haven't heard a long time so go and give him a follow as well and Yeah, we will be back

[01:18:54] Next week with some more shenanerys. Thank you again for humoring us in our What I like to say is a real-time strategy of our own Of trying to weave our way through this list of games that

[01:19:06] We've all played maybe two of out of the entire damn thing between us all so Um, I played another phenomenon. Thank you very much. You played most Jake Jake brought them all and then threw me into the host seat. So That's your fault

[01:19:20] Thank you so much guys. Lemmings is not an rts. Good night. Good luck