G&C Podcast - Episode 172: The First Great JRPG Talk! (ft. James Crow of The Top 10ers)

[00:00:00] Hey guys, on this episode of Gaming and Collecting, I am joined by James from the Top Tenors Podcast

[00:00:06] to talk about RPGs throughout the years, including our first experiences, and just basically a general freeform talk going over just a ton of RPGs.

[00:00:14] Honestly, so many that we're probably gonna have to revisit this in the future.

[00:00:18] But until then guys, enjoy us on this episode. Roll the music!

[00:00:30] So, another Alex-less episode this time guys. She's been a... you guys probably heard she's just having a bit of a rough time ever since her...

[00:00:48] we lost her cat a few weeks ago, but she's doing better, but she's with her dance and everything. She's kind of... it's just harder to get her all the time.

[00:00:58] So for this episode, I'm bringing back a returning guest. We have James here, formerly from the show Games With John and James, and currently now from the show The Top Tenors. How are you doing, James?

[00:01:09] I'm doing good. Thanks for having me. It's good to be back. It's good to talk again. We had you on the Games With John and James show a couple times. It was a lot of fun.

[00:01:19] I will never forget you out sonicking John. That will be a moment in podcast history.

[00:01:25] That's still one of the most unhinged podcast I've ever been on.

[00:01:30] That episode, it went hard. It went up, down, left and right. And then decided to come back to Archie Sonic at the very end.

[00:01:39] Yeah. Now that's a fun one. I revisit that every now and then. Just for the memories.

[00:01:45] But yeah, do you want to... I've had a live on previously to talk about it. Do you want to go over The Top Tenors again real quick?

[00:01:52] Yeah. So Liv and I have created a new show. It's called The Top Tenors Show. We're actually going live May 3rd, our first episode launches.

[00:02:03] We do top tens on everything in gaming from video game characters, villains, the whole nine yards. If it is within gaming, we are creating a list for it.

[00:02:14] We have a little bit of a friendly competition. So you're going to have to see if Liv wins or if I win each week on YouTube.

[00:02:21] Knowing Liv, this is going to be a very competitive show.

[00:02:24] Yeah. I mean, you know, maybe. But I've got my gloves. I'm prepared to fight video game style.

[00:02:31] Nice. Yeah. I'll be sure to include all the links to all your socials, the YouTube channel and I'll have the thumbnail displayed properly in the thumbnail for this episode.

[00:02:44] No, we appreciate it. And then whoever decides to listen, make sure you comment in the video because we also want to do lists for you.

[00:02:52] And if you don't comment, we can't do it for you. We'll keep doing our own.

[00:02:56] Nice. Top 10 episode-themed podcasts are always fascinating to me because they're very...

[00:03:03] It's like a very challenging thing to constantly keep up with. But when you get it down, it's like a very fascinating show concept.

[00:03:11] The hardest part is getting the template down for the edit, creating the animations, text, things like that.

[00:03:18] Like, that's the hardest part. Once you have it, you are cooking with fire.

[00:03:22] And you know me. I do have a penchant for JRPGs and narrative based games.

[00:03:29] So you know that I'm going to find a way even if even if we were doing the top 10 worst games ever, I'm going to find a way to have a JRPG there.

[00:03:40] I mean, there's some pretty bad JRPGs out there, so I'm sure you could find one.

[00:03:44] Yeah, I... Oh man, what was the last JRPG on the 3DS? Fragrance Story.

[00:03:51] Fragrance Story. I bought that on a whim and then I never played it. And I think you told me about it before I played it. I was like, oh, lovely.

[00:03:59] On the bright side, it is a piece of gaming history. So it will end its JRPG. So you know value will be there.

[00:04:06] But if you ever decide to play it, you only have to give up eight minutes of your time.

[00:04:09] True.

[00:04:13] The fastest JRPG ever.

[00:04:17] Is it as bad as like those Chemco RPGs though where you just press auto battle the entire time?

[00:04:24] You would enjoy a Chemco RPG way more.

[00:04:27] I joke because I think one of the ones I played, Alphidia on 3DS, I legit auto battled the entire game.

[00:04:37] I still can't believe they churn out like five to like, not even five, it's like almost like 50 of them a year and you play it and it's like, am I just playing something that was made an RPG maker?

[00:04:48] Like what is going on here? And it's like this weird, like trippy experience because if you've played one Chemco RPG, you have played them all.

[00:04:57] They're so weirdly fascinating though in like a strange kind of way.

[00:05:03] They have a loyal following, like shout out to the countries that love Chemco RPGs.

[00:05:09] Shout out to our friends over at Retro Hangover, they love them over there.

[00:05:15] Hey, I mean, if you need an RPG and you don't want to buy a AAA game, just go to Chemco. You can get $5,000 for 10 bucks.

[00:05:23] I mean one of them is bound to have an interesting story.

[00:05:26] You fight God while being God's son, the devil tries to sway you. You must get the sword of God.

[00:05:33] Translation Chemco.

[00:05:35] And then here's these like cut and paste Final Fantasy things that you probably played at one point or another.

[00:05:42] Oh man, I've been having a lot of fun. Like when you bring up Chemco RPGs and I've been having a lot of fun lately.

[00:05:49] So if any of you are ever interested in games made by people, you can download the RPG maker player for free.

[00:05:56] You don't have to have the game and you can actually go and play a bunch of them.

[00:06:00] And I've been on this weird RPG maker deep dive lately and there's been some gems.

[00:06:07] There's been some moments where I'm just like, what?

[00:06:12] There there's some surprisingly good like.

[00:06:17] Like fan made RPG makers, I know not all of them are RPG maker itself.

[00:06:22] Like there's a couple other like engines that you can buy to make RPGs in a similar style.

[00:06:28] There's one I played years ago called like toilet in wonderland, which I still think is one of the most hilarious things ever because it's basically one giant shit post.

[00:06:38] Well, I mean, that's something that's coming out.

[00:06:40] I think there's a it's an indie game that's releasing and it's an RPG no less.

[00:06:45] But you are in the world of garbage and it the game was actually created by janitors like legit fun.

[00:06:54] And I was like, OK, this is intriguing, but also garbage.

[00:06:59] Yeah, there's some really interesting games and like I like games like that because there's no restrictions.

[00:07:06] So people can get really creative with stuff without having to exactly think about commercial like commercialization and like making them like profitable.

[00:07:16] Yeah, like there it's weird to see inside people's minds because you know as well as I like ebbs and flows like 80s and 90s.

[00:07:27] Fight the dragon, grab the crystals, save the world.

[00:07:31] Oh no, the world has two worlds.

[00:07:33] Let's save both worlds like it was very like if you look at the history through JRPG's, you can kind of tell where the narrative is going.

[00:07:43] A lot lately is fight God fight God again.

[00:07:47] Oh no, don't fight God. But you fight the evil CEO.

[00:07:52] And it's fascinating with fan made ones because there's no there's no rhyme or reason for where they're going with their narrative.

[00:07:59] So like you get hit with the twists like when we got hit with them back in the day and Final Fantasy tactics or that first time like you are in the city of ancients.

[00:08:09] You've never played Final Fantasy seven and you get to that moment and it cuts to the little it cuts to the movie.

[00:08:16] And you have arguably one of the most iconic scenes in gaming like that was a complete emotional curve.

[00:08:24] And I feel like we get that with a lot of the fan made ones and indie ones because they're not really they're not tied to that mainstream narrative that ebb and flow that you see with all these games.

[00:08:36] Yeah, that I set Final Fantasy seven was definitely probably the most interesting like that game came out at probably the perfect time for JRPG's.

[00:08:48] And it completely flipped gaming on its head for a while there.

[00:08:53] I mean, there's a when the show's over, I'll show you.

[00:08:58] I have to go to the other room to grab it.

[00:09:00] But there's a book all dedicated to like the actual like in depth history behind the game.

[00:09:05] And Sony was so vested in the success of Final Fantasy seven like if that game flopped PlayStation would not exist as we know it.

[00:09:14] Like it was it's wild like the history behind the game.

[00:09:19] So we kind of jumped into the topic without introducing it there.

[00:09:23] We're talking about RPGs JRPGs in particular for this episode.

[00:09:27] I figured it'd be kind of fun to just kind of have a loose kind of conversation just kind of going over them.

[00:09:33] And I figured if I'm going to start a kind of a little mini series of these might as well get the biggest RPG fan I know out of the podcasting community and bring James here.

[00:09:43] So I figured it'd be interesting just to start like what was the first RPG you remember playing?

[00:09:49] So the very first RPG I ever played and actually like sat down and had the attention span to go through it.

[00:09:58] Oji Dragon Quest on the NES.

[00:10:00] That was my very first one.

[00:10:02] And so my dad, he's the one who got me into gaming like we can blame him for my problems.

[00:10:07] Thanks, Dad. You know, 38 years later.

[00:10:10] But he got me into gaming with the Legend of Zelda.

[00:10:12] Finally, like he was worried I was always going to break his Nintendo.

[00:10:15] He finally relented and he so my parents it was the gratification system right.

[00:10:21] It was hey if you got good grades every like they would do every quarter I would get kind of a treat yourself moment.

[00:10:27] And I remember walking into the mall and walking into the local the Toys R Us and I saw Dragon Quest and you just saw the Dragon Quest.

[00:10:38] And you just saw the cover of it and I was like, I want that.

[00:10:42] That is mine.

[00:10:43] I need this.

[00:10:44] And they're like, well, you got good grades, but you have to beat the game.

[00:10:47] And I was like, OK.

[00:10:49] And I did.

[00:10:50] And it was so much fun.

[00:10:52] Like I would wait until I heard my parents go to sleep just to get extra playing time.

[00:10:59] Like I would fake sleeping, hear them pass out.

[00:11:03] I would just hop back in and it to like three or four in the morning.

[00:11:07] And I remember just going to the school looking like a zombie, but it was worth it.

[00:11:12] The original Dragon Quest or Dragon Warrior, I guess, as it was at the time over here that box art is iconic like with the dragon just kind of like coming in like that.

[00:11:23] It's interesting how like out of the four Dragon Warriors we got an NES.

[00:11:27] That's like the easiest one to find nowadays.

[00:11:30] Yeah, it's like in the retro hunt.

[00:11:34] Like it hits everywhere and it's like so inexpensive.

[00:11:37] So you anybody can have it or if you're not a fan of retro like Bill and I luckily enough, Dragon Quest one, two and three were re-released on the Switch.

[00:11:48] So you can get that collected, that little collector's edition as well.

[00:11:52] And I believe those are based off of the SNES remakes, which are also equally fantastic.

[00:11:58] Dragon Warrior one is an interesting one just because it is it is it is arguably the first J console JRPG as we know it.

[00:12:06] Or at least it shaped what the console JRPG would be.

[00:12:10] And it kind of shows because it is a very basic kind of RPG.

[00:12:16] But for some reason, it works with Dragon Warrior one.

[00:12:20] It it was a if if we look at it from like today's optics, a phenomenally linear.

[00:12:27] It was point A point B. Oh no point B is in peril.

[00:12:32] Let's go to point C to fix point B to unlock the clue for point D.

[00:12:37] But in its straightforwardness, you it kind of set the recipe.

[00:12:42] Like you said, it was a recipe for success for other RPGs.

[00:12:46] And it was you still got that borderline tabletop because remember, like you'd walk down the stairs and it would literally say walking downstairs.

[00:12:57] Yeah. Good times.

[00:12:59] So it like it was so much fun.

[00:13:01] And if you think about it in its purest form, that's what an RPG should be.

[00:13:07] So like this was like pure RPG, no filler, no I have issued like I love so random tangent.

[00:13:16] Love the Final Fantasy seven remake.

[00:13:18] I love Final Fantasy seven rebirth.

[00:13:20] But dear God, many game side content filler fluff nightmare from hell makes you appreciate Dragon Quest or Dragon Warrior one all month all that more because no filler.

[00:13:33] It's really funny to like Dragon Warrior one is a pretty easy game to get through.

[00:13:39] It's a little grindy like unfortunately older games are kind of just like that.

[00:13:44] But it's funny you go Dragon Warrior one is pretty easy to get through.

[00:13:47] Dragon Warrior two is the goal to go back to these days.

[00:13:52] No, that's a slog.

[00:13:54] That one.

[00:13:55] Oof. And even nowadays, like in Dragon Quest 11 there the experience system and a Dragon Warrior Dragon Quest game is punishing and Dragon Warrior one you didn't have any metal slimes to bully.

[00:14:10] So you had to do it the old fashioned way.

[00:14:13] Yeah.

[00:14:14] And when you went to fight the dragon when you went to fight the ultimate baddie, if you weren't like you it punished you.

[00:14:22] It was one of those oh you think you can beat me at level 50?

[00:14:25] You're cute dead.

[00:14:27] It actually made you grind to go back and earn the win.

[00:14:31] Yeah that was such a different time.

[00:14:35] It's just so funny like you go from Dragon Quest one is a pretty great start.

[00:14:39] And two is like holy cow this is the how did the series make it past this one.

[00:14:45] But then you get to three four and five which is like three perfect games in a row.

[00:14:51] Even six don't forget six.

[00:14:53] Six is good too.

[00:14:54] It's five I think was like they hit this peak.

[00:14:57] And then it was going to take them a while to like kind of reach that again.

[00:15:01] The six is fine six feels like a step back, but it's still it's still really good.

[00:15:06] Seven is fine.

[00:15:07] The seven just has sevens a lot who especially if you're playing on PlayStation.

[00:15:13] You want to you want to experience what we call an extremely long narrative.

[00:15:18] Play Dragon Warrior seven on your PlayStation one two hundred and fifty hours later.

[00:15:23] You have gotten through the base level of the game.

[00:15:27] Yeah good luck completing everything.

[00:15:30] Play the 3D version it's a better experience.

[00:15:33] 100 percent and then eight like eight kind of flipped the script.

[00:15:38] Yeah eight kind of brought the series into relevance.

[00:15:41] I remember eight when eight came out that was one of the last games I had purchased for my PS2 because the wow bug bit me.

[00:15:51] And then the MOBA bug and I didn't like I didn't come back to console gaming until 2017.

[00:15:59] Thanks World Warcraft.

[00:16:02] But like eight was just the cell shading the the narrative.

[00:16:09] The voice acting that kind of paved the groundwork for all of the voice acting to have kind of that British or Scottish flair.

[00:16:18] It it's such an iconic moment in like the history of JRPG is because we you and I both know and all of you know the PlayStation two.

[00:16:27] That was the JRPG machine.

[00:16:29] That thing was still spitting out games until it finally ceased to exist in 2012 when they stopped production.

[00:16:38] I think even then they were still getting games until 2014 of all things because sports games but that's besides the point.

[00:16:45] Yeah no like because it was drag it was like Dragon Quest eight.

[00:16:50] I remember sinking just so much time and you talk about I think honestly that's the biggest thing with JRPG is the pacing right.

[00:16:59] Like we look at the pacing in Dragon Warrior one two or three OG Final Fantasy.

[00:17:05] You look at the pacing in those NES early NES RPGs and it's it's all over the place.

[00:17:11] Oh yeah.

[00:17:12] And when you have like Dragon when you have Dragon Quest eight like that pacing was perfect.

[00:17:17] The build was awesome.

[00:17:18] The suspense and then every Dragon Warrior or Dragon Quest game it always has that will call it for lack of a better expression the holy crap moment.

[00:17:30] And when you get that moment and the twist happens you're hooked even longer.

[00:17:36] And it's such a seminal moment in gaming especially for JRPGs because just kept pushing it to relevancy and it was honestly that's that game pulled a lot of people away from Final Fantasy because if you spoke JRPGs it's like oh yeah I played Final Fantasy 12.

[00:17:51] I played Final Fantasy 10 and seven and eight and nine.

[00:17:54] Okay well what about Legend of Dragoon.

[00:17:56] What about Arc the Lad.

[00:17:58] What about Lunar one and two.

[00:18:00] Like come on man.

[00:18:02] It's funny too because you bring up Final Fantasy 12.

[00:18:05] That was a genius move from squeenix at the time.

[00:18:10] Packaging the demo for 12 in Dragon Quest eight.

[00:18:14] Because honestly I bet a lot of Final Fantasy fans bought that game to play the demo and then probably realized this game is so much better not nothing against 12.

[00:18:23] It's not a bad game I just don't understand it.

[00:18:28] This day.

[00:18:29] OG 12 was a chore.

[00:18:34] Zodiac Age when it re released on the PS4.

[00:18:37] Not so much a chore like you could tell they actually listen to us.

[00:18:42] They fixed the gambit system they fixed all of that.

[00:18:47] I mean the narrative is still weird, like you're literally playing. I will never.

[00:18:52] You play as Vaughn and like it starts out like Vaughn.

[00:18:55] The supposed main character of the game.

[00:18:58] Like it's like okay cool like few hours yeah this is awesome like I'm getting into his story yeah I've done my first little guild mission and then all of a sudden he's basically the B character.

[00:19:09] But they never really let you take over who their main character is so weird.

[00:19:16] It's weird too because it took place in the same universe as the tactics series.

[00:19:22] And Evil Ish.

[00:19:24] Which was unique for the time and it's honestly like everything about 12 makes you feel like it would be like one of the best in the series, but it has so many weird little quirks to it that make it just, it's hard for people to get into 12 for whatever reason.

[00:19:40] It there.

[00:19:43] It's the it's the hook you moment like 12 never really gives you a hook you moment until you come face to face with like the magistrate.

[00:19:53] And if we're like if we're coming face to face with the magistrate 15 to 30 hours in that's bad.

[00:20:00] But then you have games like look at Super Mario RPG the hook you moment you're fighting Bowser you drop him off the chandelier and then all of a sudden giant sword just drops into Bowser's castle stars go everywhere.

[00:20:15] And you're like, I have to figure this out.

[00:20:18] And the most the greatest like hook is you can go right back to the castle and the swords like you ain't coming in here yet just send you off it oh my god Super Mario I'm so sorry.

[00:20:30] I'm so so happy it got the remake treatment that remake is near perfect like actually it's legitimately like arguably like I think it's actually better to play than the original in a lot of ways.

[00:20:44] It's a one for one copy and paste with better graphics, more fluid mechanics, and then the ability I mean let's just call it what it is the ability to do triple text.

[00:20:56] Yeah.

[00:20:57] I was always under the, for years this was a controversial opinion I had where I didn't see what the hype from our Mario RPG was because I played Mario and Luigi first and Paper Mario and I was like, I don't see what makes this one so special.

[00:21:14] I played the remake and I was like, I get it now this game is like perfect because I played the SNES version multiple times and I was I was always kind of like, it's good, but I just don't get it.

[00:21:25] And then the remake was where I got it.

[00:21:27] Yeah, if all of you watching if you have not picked up the remake, like, and this isn't sponsored by the way go grab the remake.

[00:21:36] It.

[00:21:37] Bill said it best, it is a perfect experience, and it doesn't overstay its welcome, it is a charming.

[00:21:44] The remake is what like 20 hours if you want to get everything.

[00:21:47] It's depending on how your play style like, if you're like me and you, your murder machine that kills everything in sight.

[00:21:53] It might take you a bit longer but if you play normally. It's, it's a quick RPG it's not that long. We're not going to comment on that. I just so Dragon Quest 11 was in my backlog forever and that was the most recent game I beat.

[00:22:09] You give me find a mini medal or find an item to make you even stronger.

[00:22:14] Dear God, I found all the mini medals and then some made every piece of armor you could like, I get to the true ending, and I am just uber overpowered dominant.

[00:22:30] And it's like this feels good. It feels good to bully the enemies.

[00:22:34] Yeah, like this. It's like, fight you go back to Final Fantasy nine, and you do like the the dragon grinding trick where you just killed grand dragons, get massive like we overleveled.

[00:22:46] And then you just spend the entire game steamrolling everything as you can.

[00:22:50] Oh man, not you, you want to talk about an awesome moment like nine.

[00:22:55] It sucked that soccer Gucci left. It sucked that that was his like magnum opus right, but nine. Oh, like the, the optional boss Osma so much fun.

[00:23:10] And then it was what I think what five years ago, one of the arguably most incompletable mini quests within a game ever finally got completed with finding all the brothers and doing that event.

[00:23:25] Like, that didn't get completed until 2019 you want to, that is insane.

[00:23:30] That is nine is a weird one to me because I feel like it got completely overshadowed when it came out because 10 was on the horizon.

[00:23:39] And it came out really late for PS one, and it felt older because the Final Fantasy series by this point had been going through a very interesting arc where like six really started it with this whole experimentation of like the formula then seven took it even farther

[00:23:55] than eight completely did its own thing.

[00:23:58] Yeah.

[00:23:59] And then nine was like, let's go back to basics let's do like four again and take it, make it a simple old school game that's easy to pick up and just has a really fun story that takes him some surprising twists.

[00:24:12] It's insane and if you're a madman. I challenge all I'm not going to tell you how to do it you can do your own research people try to get Excalibur to do it on a PS one two that's even more fun.

[00:24:25] I did.

[00:24:27] And I will never do anything that bad ever again in my life. The amount of times, my game was just sitting with the disk tray open was not fun.

[00:24:38] I mean speaking of not fun.

[00:24:40] Getting nights of the round in a seven.

[00:24:43] Yeah, like the chocobo sit like the chocobo breeding system to get to a goal chocobo was not fun and it was, it was time consuming.

[00:24:56] Once you have a guide it's not terrible it's just like kind of like you just have to slog through it.

[00:25:02] The other method is of course you kill, we weapon and said Emerald rapid weapon but wants to do that without without nights of the round.

[00:25:11] My challenge, if you play seven again bill my challenge to you, you have to replicate what I did. So my last time playing.

[00:25:19] I beat Emerald weapon zero magic, other than the W some of the summon for whenever like you would die so just Phoenix and res your party.

[00:25:30] That was it but it was all for mastered for X cuts over the over my party and I beat the Emerald weapon regular attacks only.

[00:25:40] My challenge to you, and no underwater materia.

[00:25:45] That might kill it for me.

[00:25:48] So but now Ruby weapon.

[00:25:51] Man, like, you want to talk about gate like a game series with amazing optional bosses from here recently with Final Fantasy 16, the one hunter quest with that red dragon.

[00:26:06] Like, holy nutso that thing was intense to add a man twice in 15. Like, hey you want to fight a mountain today. Here you go.

[00:26:17] So you're on your pro 16 right.

[00:26:20] I will forever die on this hill 16 is in my top three now.

[00:26:26] Okay, so five, seven, 16 that's my top three.

[00:26:33] I don't know if it's in my top three but it's definitely in my top.

[00:26:39] I'd have to think about it. It's, it's a, it's a favorite of mine. So, 16 to me like I've said a few times, it was the first Final Fantasy that I truly like had a good time playing the entire way through since like into because I never played 11, because I only

[00:26:57] had enough energy for one MMO in my life that's RuneScape.

[00:27:02] 1212 is like a game that I really like certain aspects and I just can't get into other aspects.

[00:27:09] 13 is 13.

[00:27:12] Either like it or you don't, I, I like, I like 13 to 13 one.

[00:27:19] Sometimes, 13 three. I'm good. You mean you don't like lightning returns.

[00:27:24] Yeah, I returned it to GameStop.

[00:27:27] I didn't actually return to GameStop. I don't return games, but never, we never do that.

[00:27:32] Yet the lightning returns felt so they were like, we give up. It's an action RPG now here.

[00:27:42] 14, I didn't play original 14 because it was broken and I played the free trial for the, the, the fixed version of 14.

[00:27:50] It's good.

[00:27:52] But like I said I don't have time for MMOs.

[00:27:56] 15 I liked until it fell off a cliff in the second half.

[00:28:00] Hey guys, I'm gonna be right back. I gotta go do this one thing pops back. Wow, it's been a month since I've seen you.

[00:28:07] And it's literally like five minutes in the game and it's like, what?

[00:28:11] Yeah.

[00:28:14] And then 16 like from the start, like, even though like I would prefer a turn based RPG.

[00:28:21] I feel like 16 they managed to make the combat fun.

[00:28:25] And the story in the world is really what kept me going because I love that game story, and it really cut it felt like a Final Fantasy.

[00:28:33] We, for all of the hullabaloo surrounding it all the haters who are like, there's no party. It's devil may cry fantasy. It's not a Final Fantasy.

[00:28:46] I don't object to your opinion because we are all entitled to it. However, you can't go in games can't stay the same.

[00:28:54] If drag prior to 16 hitting we knew Dragon Quest 12 coming out was going to be completely different from the rest of the franchise.

[00:29:03] You can't turn based is awesome. I love I love a good turn based game. I love a good action RPG.

[00:29:09] If you want what is arguably the most well known RPG series in the world to keep going change has to happen.

[00:29:18] The combat system, you can call it devil may cry fantasy all you want. It was fluid. It was engaging the ability to go between three different icons.

[00:29:30] Go through three different skill sets was it was so fluid.

[00:29:36] And I talked about pacing earlier the pacing in this game.

[00:29:41] Amazing that amazing moment. So since this one's a recent one, I won't give spoilers. The amazing moment end of Act one.

[00:29:52] Yeah. Oh my gosh.

[00:29:55] The end of the demo alone.

[00:29:59] It the voice acting primo the voice. So like you'll even even in the trailer you get to hear this like Sid his voice actor.

[00:30:11] Dude deserves whatever award we can give him phenomenal best probably the best version of Sid we've ever gotten in a Final Fantasy since.

[00:30:23] Seven I guess. I'm trying to think out of all the seeds we've had since then like I mean I like Robin Williams said from eight because he's Robin Williams basically but um I mean that is fair.

[00:30:36] I don't even remember the sitting nine.

[00:30:39] To be honest, no don't remember sitting nine.

[00:30:43] Sit in six. Cool. Kind of forgettable sit in five. Forgettable sitting for is great.

[00:30:51] Yeah, sit in for did good.

[00:30:54] It like 16 is the way of the future. And you can all love me hate me roast me. I'm totally fine anyway.

[00:31:05] This this series has to change and 16 for all of us older generation of gamers who we we prefer our turn based we prefer you know what we're used to.

[00:31:17] It's hard to accept change, especially with a franchise that's as iconic as Final Fantasy but if they don't change, they're going to fall out of relevancy because prior to 16.

[00:31:28] What do we get we got various day life.

[00:31:31] We got harvest Ella, we got the DO field Chronicle like couple okay ones don't ever play various day life that was a train wreck of a train wreck.

[00:31:42] Oh, Fantasian was the other one that was a well Fantasia remember Fantasian was soccer Gucci's own studio Mist Walker.

[00:31:50] Oh no, not Fantasia I'm thinking of the other one that square put out that it like flopped immediately I can't remember what the name oh Babylon's fall.

[00:32:03] No, not that one. It was the one that looked really pretty but ran like bad.

[00:32:09] Well, one that is gonna I don't remember. I'm going to look this up right now you can hear your story to the Google's.

[00:32:18] But like Square had been striking out quite a bit. And for them to make this change, so many new people came to the franchise and for me. That's what it's all about. I want everybody to experience a JRPG I want them to experience be able to experience the old all the way to the new, and they got to.

[00:32:39] So, if you have not played 16, you're missing out quite a bit.

[00:32:48] For spoken.

[00:32:50] Hey, hey, I liked for spoken, I will die on that hill. Did they fix it so it runs properly function. So it runs really smooth the dialogue, I mean, the kryptonite of that game is the dialogue it is very forced it's very cringe.

[00:33:08] When you're dropping an F bomb every other word just to try and be a little edgy.

[00:33:14] It kind of sucks, but what I'll give it credit for now like if you go back and play it the combat is amazingly fluid.

[00:33:22] The world building and development like the story, because as you're going through the area as you're going through the various areas, there's a lot for you to do.

[00:33:33] And you can start to discover and uncover more of the history and more of the why and more of the how it's phenomenal.

[00:33:42] And then like seeing the actually getting to see the moment where the Tanta is like fell into madness is amazing and then there's a beautiful twist at the end, like you will appreciate the twist at the end.

[00:33:57] So I know that one.

[00:34:00] A lot of people hate it. I hear you, I agree with you on the dialogue. But if you can look past that the game is gorgeous and you want to talk about a game that lets you literally explore everywhere actually, you know what we want to do an open worlds, but we normally can't

[00:34:17] for spoken gives it to you.

[00:34:19] Okay, I might give it a shot at some point. I know the biggest problem squeenix had like this last like year or so they just put out too many games and like we had not enough time to play them.

[00:34:32] Yeah, shout out to the various creators that just game all day like more power to you. I wish I could do that, but you release star ocean like last year alone. We got like the biggest remakes we got if you like Super Mario RPG remake star ocean

[00:34:51] And then we had story are came out to modern consoles, which another glorious remake.

[00:34:59] And let's see we had 16 that came out last year, all the Indies that came out last year. If you're an armored core fan armored core and not really a JRPG but you know it kind of mirrors, I guess I don't know where I was going with that but I think there was like a total of like 80 big games I really wanted last year and there's no way in God's green earth I'm getting through 80 games.

[00:35:22] No, I can barely get through like for a year at this point.

[00:35:26] I mean, I mean, remember I recommended what was the one I recommend to you as a the labyrinth of so there was labyrinth of Chris cellia or whatever.

[00:35:38] There was down and poison control or the two, and I have only dabbled in both of them because I just don't have time to play RPGs anymore.

[00:35:46] We're the RPG guys but we're getting older and they're getting fewer to play.

[00:35:51] Or like, you get like other games that will come in that you just have more priority on like, like right now I'm in the middle of my yearly playthrough of persona for golden, so it's like kind of just has taken over everything.

[00:36:06] Yep, but then also persona three reload just came out and I'm like, now I gotta play that.

[00:36:13] It is. This is a weird thing but like a week it's like a we'll call it a backhanded complaint.

[00:36:20] We are feasting a little too good game companies.

[00:36:26] Which I can't really argue because I'm going to pick them all up anyways.

[00:36:30] It's weird because it's like the niches games like we're like swimming in right now but like the big triple is they are struggling to make credit the moment.

[00:36:38] Yeah, I mean, I didn't chronicle the, the one we've been waiting for has is coming out you can play the beta.

[00:36:47] That's the Suikoden spiritual successor right.

[00:36:51] Yeah, the, the, it was either the director or the producer like one of the main creators behind Suikoden who left the company went and did this.

[00:37:00] And then Konami in their infinite pettiness. Thanks Japan, they were like, oh, well look at this Suikoden one and two remasters.

[00:37:10] Yeah, convenient. It's like, I've only been asking for those for years and then you put them out now just to get your petty one up.

[00:37:19] I mean, I, I'm very happy the PlayStation three store is still like, even though you have to navigate an encyclopedia to get to the point to purchase on it.

[00:37:30] Being able to get Suikoden two there versus going to shell out four to 500 for it.

[00:37:38] Okay, off topic but have you noticed that the hilarious irony that the PS three store was the first one that was going to close and everyone lost their metaphorical shit over it.

[00:37:49] And Sony back down and now it's somehow won the Hunger Games of get up the old video game stores. Yeah, I mean, Louise gone 3DS is gone.

[00:37:59] You just closed 360s on its way out.

[00:38:03] It.

[00:38:05] For love Sony hate Sony love Microsoft hate Microsoft for all of the lambasting companies get for a company like Sony to literally say, Whoa, we actually hear you and keep it there.

[00:38:22] Like so many of the titles like you and I have in our collection and you and I have enjoyed are readily available at people's fingertips for pennies on the dollar for what they are like I mentioned Suikoden to if you want to actually own that you're spending four to 500 bucks.

[00:38:38] And especially with with the new one coming out we're probably going to see a price spike to like 650 before it evens out, like that's insane to ask somebody to pay for that.

[00:38:47] Yeah, especially for a game that it's a game that's that sought after and they could have easily re released so many times and I mean it's amazing that they finally are but so we coded some interesting one.

[00:39:03] Yep. No, that whole franchise is awesome like to chase game five is a chase game.

[00:39:09] I challenge everyone to go play for it's the black sheep.

[00:39:14] Good luck. You're like pirates ships.

[00:39:19] Yeah, you like the Navy. Ah, so we couldn't for right up your alley. Oh, and by the way if you want to follow the entire story you have to play the first half of tactics, then play for then play the second half of, or maybe it's the I'm thinking of the other way.

[00:39:34] Either way the one of the games that the story takes place in the middle of another game and there's, it's a mess.

[00:39:42] And then we got the was it DS or three DS for tier Chris I think it was DS and I wanted to like that game I just, I don't know it felt so half hearted compared to the rest of the series.

[00:39:54] It was still light years better than Lunar Dragon saw.

[00:40:00] Any RPG that you get damaged by running automatically is like in the bottom of the barrel of, like, so I put as Chris Copeland from retro hangover likes to say what game for DS that never happened.

[00:40:19] I don't know what you speak of Lunar Dragon song it doesn't exist. Never heard of it.

[00:40:25] Yeah, that's down there with like Sonic Chronicles and like a number of other just god awful RPGs that are like, it's like how it was, how was it this bad.

[00:40:39] Yeah, no idea. But you pose the question to me Bill so I get to flip the tables on you what was your first RPG.

[00:40:50] Well, I shared the story a few times in the past.

[00:40:54] It's pretty well known at this point but my first RPG was Final Fantasy eight.

[00:40:59] It's the reason why I'm the eight defender the eight fanboy, the, the guy that loves that came more than most people do all because of a, a numbering mistake, I made as a child where I really wanted to be mature.

[00:41:15] And then when I wrote on my Christmas list that year I wrote, I want Final Fantasy seven, but I added an extra I by mistake.

[00:41:22] And I got eight.

[00:41:24] And I wasn't really upset because it was still a Final Fantasy and hey it looked better. The music was better.

[00:41:31] The gameplay was a little confusing but it was it was a Final Fantasy and everything about it was still fun.

[00:41:37] Because of, I mean it took me like probably like seven years to beat because I got the game at four years old so yeah not the, not the best place to start RPG wise.

[00:41:47] We're going to give you the most confusing thing at four. Good luck there Bill. Yeah. I mean hey, I got so much mileage out of that game because like in the day like when you didn't have money for games, RPGs were king, because you just had so much like time in these

[00:42:04] games. Like by the time you finished them it's like hey another game.

[00:42:08] It, it's the main reason that that is, I have a few games that I bounce between in between RPGs, slay the spire card based rogue light or new one that came out rogue book card based rogue like those are my bounce around to like give me a little break from a

[00:42:27] giant narrative but you can't.

[00:42:31] I'm going to just throw a random one out there. 100 you're looking at 150 almost 160 hours.

[00:42:39] That's a lot of for the OG one that is great. Like don't get me wrong, I love to play like Super Smash Brothers with everybody. I love a good party game or like a quicker game, but 160 hours for one game that will last you, depending on how much you get to

[00:42:58] a month. That's two months. Yeah, a year for some people.

[00:43:03] Yeah, I'm looking at you Bill Mr only four or five games a year.

[00:43:09] If I'm lucky, well, kind of an asterisk there because I play a lot of 3DO games nowadays but those are.

[00:43:16] I consider that work.

[00:43:18] I mean fair.

[00:43:20] But going back to eight a little bit. I think the fact that I played eight first is actually why I'm so like immune to like overly complicated RPG combat systems these days.

[00:43:32] Because playing once you figure eight out anything is possible after that.

[00:43:38] No, the RP like the convolutedness of RPGs on the PlayStation one like eight uber weird.

[00:43:47] I will say I love enemies leveling with you. Final Fantasy Tactics eight do a good job of that recently got worst future past.

[00:43:57] I love when the game gets challenging as you grow because that's just cool and it makes you think more as a player.

[00:44:06] But then, just along with that like for every eight on the PS1 you had like remember Legend of Ligaya remember that combat system.

[00:44:14] I have the old dial a combo system that somehow worked way better than I thought it would. I'm not gonna lie.

[00:44:22] Such a weird concept but such a good story. And then Ligaya two came out on the PlayStation two and womp womp.

[00:44:30] There was a weird period there of like these really obscure RPGs coming out on PS1 and then getting sequels out of nowhere on the PS2 that sucked.

[00:44:42] Like Jade Cocoon 2. It's nothing like Jade Cocoon 1.

[00:44:49] Brave Fencer Musashi had Samurai Legend Musashi which was just yeah.

[00:44:54] The artwork. Hey, at least the artwork looked cool on the cover.

[00:44:57] It looked nice. The game itself was just kind of like this isn't this has none of the charm that I loved from the first one.

[00:45:04] Oh, you went a completely different direction. No.

[00:45:08] Look at a well the first Arc the Lad's sequel Twilight of Spirits was enjoyable.

[00:45:16] The what was the one after that the second one that released on the PS2 that one the one that decided oh tactical RPG like Sony's Fire Emblem.

[00:45:27] Forget that generic action RPG.

[00:45:31] Yeah, the fifth installment because we won't count arena.

[00:45:36] Yeah, because arena is kind of its own thing. Let's see here. What does that game called? It's in my collection.

[00:45:43] I just can't remember what it's called right now.

[00:45:47] Are you using the game I app?

[00:45:49] Maybe.

[00:45:51] God bless that little app.

[00:45:53] It does wonders for collectors.

[00:45:56] Makes life so much easier.

[00:45:59] And surprisingly, end of dark. It's a surprisingly cheap game because I had to scroll really far down to the bottom to find it.

[00:46:06] Bill, you could have just typed in Arc the Lad.

[00:46:10] I could have but my brain was not thinking that far ahead.

[00:46:14] Yeah, no end of darkness. Dear God.

[00:46:19] Both made by the same studio to because I think that'll calls the name.

[00:46:24] Interesting developer.

[00:46:26] They made both of them on the PS2 and the first one is really good. The second one not so much.

[00:46:31] Yeah, no.

[00:46:33] You could tell Sony had no hope in it because he didn't even bother to publish it.

[00:46:38] What? Oh, this is yeah. Such a great game.

[00:46:41] Go to them. Have them make it. Yeah, we believe in you that much.

[00:46:46] Yeah.

[00:46:49] Speaking of Arc the Lad though, what a great series that nobody talks about.

[00:46:54] It is so tactical RPGs are my most beloved and favorite out of anything.

[00:47:06] If Final Fantasy Tactics was mainline, it would be number one. Just straight up full send.

[00:47:12] And man like I was jonesing so Final Fantasy Tactics.

[00:47:18] So I initially kind of got into the RTS slash tactical RPGs.

[00:47:24] If you remember Ogre Battle March the Black Queen back on the SNES.

[00:47:28] That was my first like true nugget into it.

[00:47:33] And then Final Fantasy Tactics really, really hit home.

[00:47:37] Same developer, I believe.

[00:47:40] Yep. The so the original creator behind Tactics Ogre and Ogre Battle left.

[00:47:45] And because he wanted he had a bunch of ideas and they were like, no, you're just going to copy paste, release the next iteration.

[00:47:54] And Squaresoft at the time was like, hey, we'll let you have full creative control.

[00:47:59] But we're going to put the word Final Fantasy in this and we'll put Tactics in it as a way of paying respect where you came from.

[00:48:06] And we get arguably the bet one of the best if not the best tactical RPGs ever.

[00:48:13] That is like to me like the definition of like a slow burn kind of seller because it didn't it didn't do anything when it came out.

[00:48:21] And then suddenly it just like blew up to the point where Sony had to hastily reprinted.

[00:48:26] And that's why there are so many more green labels than there are black labels of that game.

[00:48:31] Oh, my God. Like we mentioned the enemies leveling up with you.

[00:48:36] Final Fantasy Tactics did like they did that like the story, the challenge.

[00:48:43] We all know if you so I'll use an easy example.

[00:48:48] Star Ocean until the end of time, if you go a mana destruction build, you will literally cheese mode that game because no enemy has infinite mana.

[00:49:00] Like all most RPGs have ways to be broken.

[00:49:03] Final Fantasy Tactics, they're very few and far in between.

[00:49:07] And the challenge is real.

[00:49:10] I think Tactics does the leveling up thing better than eight because if you know what you're doing and you can break eight and a half so easily.

[00:49:18] Yep. And then what's the fight? It's in the church.

[00:49:23] The priest reveal reveals himself as a demon.

[00:49:26] And if you aren't prepared, you have to restart the game because most of us.

[00:49:34] Oh, you're about to enter a critical area.

[00:49:37] You like to save. Oh, yeah, sure.

[00:49:40] You get stuck in the loop of never beating that fight. Yep.

[00:49:47] We've all been there. Yep. I raged took me three tries.

[00:49:54] So 340 ish hour playthroughs to that point.

[00:49:59] And I failed three times.

[00:50:02] It was so depressing, like going back to Ark the Lad.

[00:50:06] It was really depressing too because with those games like we didn't get them like right away like because Europe got them all.

[00:50:12] Japan got them all. We over here didn't get them until yes one was already gone.

[00:50:18] While it was still around but it was yes two was already out by this point and then working designs.

[00:50:24] God bless them, even though they ruined some of their games more than that later decided here's all three of them plus arena in this one convenient box.

[00:50:35] There you go. And then no one bothered and now it's incredibly rare.

[00:50:40] So I was living over in Italy at the time.

[00:50:43] So living my dad was Air Force.

[00:50:47] So you shop at the base exchange.

[00:50:49] Think of it like a Walmart TJ Maxx multiple department store on steroids, everything together and back in the day their video game section was king.

[00:51:00] The Ark the Lad collection they had and it was on sale. I picked that thing up $15.

[00:51:06] Nice. I think I had 50 like four years ago now it's like.

[00:51:12] Let's check my check game. I what's it going for now.

[00:51:15] I think CIB is going for like 280 right now.

[00:51:20] Let's see Ark the Lad 136 according to game I at the moment.

[00:51:24] Oh, I mean that's not bad.

[00:51:26] It's come down a bit. It's the still the most expensive it looks like out of the big box.

[00:51:33] No, no, no. Lunar 2 is the most expensive. Yeah.

[00:51:35] Nothing is beating Eternal Blue.

[00:51:38] That's that one price. That's my that's my third favorite RPG of all time.

[00:51:42] Lunar Lunar wasn't the series is awesome.

[00:51:46] And then here recently sucks for you iPhone users.

[00:51:49] But on Android they real released lunar here recently and you can play the entire game on your phone now without one.

[00:51:57] Yep. Okay.

[00:52:00] Just a little tangent here.

[00:52:02] What do they have against lunar to I don't know it.

[00:52:06] What are once been released like 12 times lunar to be released once.

[00:52:13] Yeah, I my like this is what I'm hoping.

[00:52:17] And I know this is magical Christmas land because licensing name rights whatever like please say deciding whether he wants to be a dick or not.

[00:52:26] Basically, right.

[00:52:28] Like so with a PlayStation premium like if you have I think it's the max level tier.

[00:52:34] You get like the back like the old the classics catalog and they have they have some decent RPGs on there stars until the end of time.

[00:52:42] Rogue Galaxy Legend of Dragoon Dark Cloud one Dark Cloud to like and I keep going.

[00:52:48] I'm hoping that Sony realizes the RPG crazes mega right now gets all the licensing rights like powers through it like hey we have money screw you were making this happen.

[00:53:04] And you just get with your PlayStation premium the PS one RPG collection.

[00:53:11] I would be lost for hours and that that would be so epic that unfortunately it's just one of those things where like because of how weird licensing was then like all these games are like lost in a limbo at the moment.

[00:53:25] Which is if you are like Bill and I shout out to physical collecting.

[00:53:29] Yeah, even and even that's starting to get rough.

[00:53:36] It it's unfortunate with all the big conventions.

[00:53:44] Everybody.

[00:53:46] I blame everybody having a side hustle like COVID popped off retro market went insanely through the roof.

[00:53:54] I mean I'll wholeheartedly admit I sold my collection for a silly amount of money with the exception of modern consoles and built to back up.

[00:54:03] But it shouldn't be this difficult like if you remember 2019 you could pick up Zeno Saga 340 bucks.

[00:54:11] Now you are Saga three get wrecked.

[00:54:15] Yeah, now it's like I'll give PS2 credit most of its games are still pretty affordable even like the RPGs unless you want Zeno Saga 3 or dot hack or or Steam bot Chronicles don't forget that one.

[00:54:29] Oh yeah that one's see I don't have that one that's why that explains it.

[00:54:33] It that was the weirdest RPG I've ever played even weirder than Doka Pon Kingdom.

[00:54:41] Doka Pon isn't that like the one that's like a board game.

[00:54:43] Yep, they, they just re I wouldn't say re released I guess it was a we'll call it the second one in the series I don't know but it came out back out for the switch.

[00:54:52] So if you want to experience it without shelling out I think it's like 150 right now.

[00:54:58] Grab the switch one it's like 30 bucks.

[00:55:00] Yeah, you know what, a PS one, not PS one PS two RPG I just recently picked up that like.

[00:55:08] I swear nobody talked about this game, and then it's suddenly now like.

[00:55:14] It's like everyone's like coming back to him being like, this game was great why did nobody play it.

[00:55:20] Okay.

[00:55:22] Oh yeah that one was a good one.

[00:55:24] I found it in a bargain bin, like a month ago just chilling there for like 12 bucks. I was like, this game looks familiar but I like don't remember it at all and then I like looked into it and I like posted online and everyone was like, okay, that

[00:55:39] games great. I'm just like, Oh, cool I guess.

[00:55:45] So that one I believe, because it's okay to the Shadow King right. Yes, that one's actually available in the library as well for the PlayStation classics. So, you have never experienced that game, you want trippy unique engaging has a few twists.

[00:56:04] Also, one of the rare.

[00:56:07] Very rare moments back then where games didn't take themselves too seriously. That's okay.

[00:56:15] It was such a.

[00:56:17] That was like a weird like gem from like the, because the PS two like we said was like it was swimming in RPGs.

[00:56:24] A lot of them kind of went under the radar just because there's so many of them.

[00:56:28] It was, you couldn't. You honestly couldn't fail if you made an RPG on the PS two like some of them would fly under the radar but you still always met your sales goals like even even a formal fantasia met its sales goals and not.

[00:56:48] That was Konami his first attempt at an RPG on the PS two and I got I got my copy for $5 at a flea market.

[00:56:57] Yeah, I'm right there with you. The only thing I'll say that I wish could have happened for us. The Japanese version. You could actually play the game with the good with a guitar, not like the guitar hero guitar like Konami zone little whatever.

[00:57:12] Yeah, that would have been so cool for us to be able to do I think that would have helped at sales.

[00:57:18] Another PS two RPG like even squeenix had a couple that like just kind of fell under the radar and this one to me is incredibly underrated.

[00:57:29] Read it ready to have stories.

[00:57:33] Yeah, that.

[00:57:35] Honestly that's in my top 10 games of all time.

[00:57:39] It's funny because like it came out. And then it completely just everyone forgot about it. And it just kind of disappeared.

[00:57:46] Well, because it came out in what oh five if I'm not mistaken right. It was late because squeenix had a lot of RPGs on the PS two.

[00:57:55] It. I am you had your Google's my turn to help us with the Google's. Yeah, January of oh five in Japan and then September in North America, but you're talking oh five we're talking Final Fantasy 12 we're talking Dragon Quest persona three wasn't that oh five was it three or four that was oh five.

[00:58:17] So four wasn't till oh eight. So I think actually I think three was like 2006 or seven. It was even later.

[00:58:25] I like how we're having to Google this. Yeah, you know, oh six yeah July 13th 2006 three. See I know I know four by heart three not so much.

[00:58:37] Three was like this weird one like here have three.

[00:58:41] Hey, we're gonna do it again in feds. Oh, yeah, here's three but with more.

[00:58:47] Oh man. No, Radeata stories that game. So if you want to if any of you collect.

[00:58:57] It's like a $20 game at most it is very inexpensive.

[00:59:01] You have to play the game through twice in order to see everything with it. And you want to talk about like, just like a powerful story for like it was the story was so good and it didn't have any right to be like you looked at that game and it's like I don't know but then you the story is just so gripping you get to either.

[00:59:23] There's a choice you make where you're going to be human ally with the humans or ally with the non humans.

[00:59:29] And then you want to talk about recruitable characters like suey codein how about 176 of them.

[00:59:37] Chrono Chrono cross something like that. Yeah.

[00:59:40] And then the ability, the ability to kick anything.

[00:59:45] Yeah, that was always such a weird gameplay mechanic but it was fun.

[00:59:49] You could, you can just go to a town person, kick them. Hey, what'd you do that for. Kick them again. Hey, you need to stop this, kick them again I'm warning you stop kick them again.

[00:59:59] Hearts, and then just engage with the guards.

[01:00:03] Yeah, see I love when games like, like, they play with your expectations like that like one of my favorites is super paper Mario another criminally underrated game.

[01:00:15] It has one of my favorite examples of like playing with like you know the whole like but thou must like kind of thing where it's like, it's like no matter how many times you say no you have to say yes.

[01:00:25] My favorite is in super paper Mario, you at the start of the game. Merlin will give you his little speech and you can keep saying no. And if you get to a point he gets like very distressed if you say no the final time it just game over.

[01:00:37] It's like the best thing ever because it's like, oh wow they actually went there.

[01:00:42] It, oh man, it's not an RPG but like things like that. You remember, eternal darkness, sanity is requiem.

[01:00:49] Oh yeah, that game was just designed to like fuck with you. Oh my, remember, I mean my friends would let the sanity meter just completely drain, just to see what would happen like walking in the library all of a sudden books are circling you walking

[01:01:04] and you're getting dismembered but you're not showing a deleted save file but it wasn't the blue screen of the blue screen is still like one of the best ones. Oh my gosh, I love it when games can break the fourth wall because it re engages you like if you give that moment and honestly I would say like 2000 to like 2012 RPGs kind of did that they always quite a few of them had that moment to like make you like, oh yeah, I'm going to go back to the game.

[01:01:34] Huh, okay, like right out of stories with kicking Super Paper Mario.

[01:01:40] It, it's refreshing and more games need to do it. And I'm not talking the hyper hyper dimension neptunia series like no please that's more of those.

[01:01:50] I don't know I kind of like those.

[01:01:52] Their pure jrpgs which I love.

[01:01:55] Then they're just so I love that they're just one giant like metaphor, basically. Oh my gosh, it.

[01:02:02] Such a weird niche, like who thought. So who was like the person that was like, hey let's just make a giant metaphor for the console wars and then just make it nothing but anime girls.

[01:02:15] No idea but they're doing well because they still exist. Compile heart, they're still making them. I think there's a new one coming out like in a month. Yep. God bless you idea factory.

[01:02:27] What was another one they made a fairy fencer the very answer. I just bought the third one that's like a spin off on switch recently I got to play it.

[01:02:37] So I've beat the first one, the second one that came out on PS five last was the last year the year before I picked that one up, it's on my to do list.

[01:02:46] Yeah, I think it's like Advent rising or something like that.

[01:02:51] I still got to get that one I have the spin off on his well.

[01:02:56] And you want to talk about like eating good like we're getting ease 10 this year metaphor refan TZO Atlas is not doing a persona games, drop your beer everybody.

[01:03:09] Well they're making one, we just it's not coming out yet well that we are getting the, the FES DLC for three reload.

[01:03:18] Hey, I am just happy that is fair but I'm just happy Atlas is content to do something that's not persona, even if it's a one off.

[01:03:28] They're finally realizing they're like oh yeah we don't need to be constantly fighting for our lives anymore because now Sega's bank rolling us so

[01:03:35] Yep, I mean, speaking of that vanilla where love them.

[01:03:41] And unicorn overlord they went broke making.

[01:03:47] Yeah.

[01:03:49] Okay, vanilla where makes like the greatest games ever nobody plays them until after it matters.

[01:03:55] If you haven't for you bill if you haven't played unicorn overlord it's on sale right now.

[01:04:00] I bought it, I just haven't had time to play it yet.

[01:04:04] Perfection.

[01:04:06] 10 out of 10 five out of 500 out of 100 whatever rating you want to use that game, start to finish.

[01:04:15] Chef's kiss.

[01:04:17] Okay, because I know 13 sentinels as a great narrative, but the actual like RPG strategy stuff was kind of like the weakest point of that game and a lot of people's eyes.

[01:04:30] If you want to play what looks like an old game of asteroids for your combat, please welcome to 13 sentinels.

[01:04:38] But then you play through the story and you're like, Oh yeah this is why I like this. Yeah no.

[01:04:43] So the story.

[01:04:45] The story and unicorn overload is there, it's not abundant. It's not lacking. It's one of those. It's enough to satiate you, but then the combat system, the world exploration and the everything else lifts the game into the stratosphere.

[01:05:00] So we're back kind of like around like where like dragons crown or Mirmasa were in terms of like minimal story and then just amazing gameplay.

[01:05:10] Little more than minimal but yeah right about there.

[01:05:13] Okay.

[01:05:14] Yeah, it's on my to do list I just have to sit down and actually play it.

[01:05:18] Man.

[01:05:19] One of these days we're going to get you hooked invested. I'm just gonna you know what this is my promise, all of you can hold me to this, even if you never see me again, which, well I hope you do come check out my show.

[01:05:32] But I'm going to send Bill a message every day, it's just going to be a game like no context behind it, it's just going to be your corn overlord dark cloud to.

[01:05:42] Cry Machina.

[01:05:44] Christ are.

[01:05:45] I played some of those.

[01:05:47] And I'm just going to keep doing it until you're finally like all right James I'm going to give one of these 5000 messages a shot.

[01:05:54] I mean it's like I will play them just when I have time. Unfortunately stone of time anymore because being an adult sucks sometimes.

[01:06:02] Yeah, yeah.

[01:06:04] Like I, I feel that in my bones.

[01:06:09] So, an era of RPGs to me that's super fascinating mostly just because I feel like it was such a, they were so scarce during this era, even though we got a ton of them.

[01:06:20] The PS three 360 era.

[01:06:23] Yeah, it.

[01:06:25] That was the weird schism I feel, because 360.

[01:06:29] Like, was off to the races, Sony fumbled quite a bit at the start with the PS three, but then made the world's greatest comeback.

[01:06:37] Yeah, it's still, it's surprising that they won that iteration because 360 could have won.

[01:06:44] But they dropped the ball.

[01:06:46] They gave up at the end.

[01:06:48] And but you got you got some gems like Lost Odyssey on the 360. Oh my goodness. Such an awesome game.

[01:06:56] Like the 360 started out like strong with like the RPG game.

[01:07:02] Eternal Sonata. Yep.

[01:07:04] Our wasn't our tonalico melodies of Koga, that one was on there on 360 as well right.

[01:07:10] There was that one there was a.

[01:07:13] So, eternal Sonata got ported later on, so they lost that one.

[01:07:18] They also had the original version of star ocean The Last Hope before that also got brought over.

[01:07:24] Magna Carta two if you want a really bizarre Korean RPG.

[01:07:28] Hope you like rings.

[01:07:31] It's a fun game but oh it's interesting.

[01:07:34] The last remnant that was another one that which doesn't really function on the 360. So if you want to play that game by the switch or modern remaster because it plays so much better.

[01:07:45] Yep.

[01:07:46] Those.

[01:07:48] Oh man.

[01:07:49] Confident undiscovery other known as this is Tri Aces tech demo for how to make star ocean for.

[01:07:57] Oh man and then when the PS3 came in obviously we have the 13 trilogy.

[01:08:03] What, man, what was it it's on the tip of my tongue there were two of them. It was an over the top mash from multiple, multiple franchises into one played like this guy.

[01:08:17] There were two games and it was just insanely silly.

[01:08:20] Forget what the name of it is, it is on the tip of my tongue.

[01:08:25] It was a tactical RPG. It was on PS3.

[01:08:31] So you had those.

[01:08:34] You.

[01:08:36] The P then we had the White Knight Chronicles one and two. Those are fun.

[01:08:40] The first one was the first one was a little bland for my tastes. They kind of fixed it with two and two comes with a free copy of one so it's like why bother buying one.

[01:08:51] I don't need you.

[01:08:53] Those are really weird marketing choice.

[01:08:55] Moog and souls. That's what it was.

[01:08:57] Moog. Okay. Yeah, that was an interesting one.

[01:09:00] And you can that got re released on the switch but you have to get it through play Asia, unfortunately, or fortunately.

[01:09:08] I want to talk about my favorite obscure RPG on PS3 that is getting a bit of love now just because it's aesthetic is like timeless 3D dot game heroes.

[01:09:20] That game was so much fun.

[01:09:22] That game, I bought legit out of a bargain bin at a GameStop like a month after it came out. And then it like spiked up to like, it was like a triple digit game for a while there, mostly probably because of the Scott the laws connection because he used

[01:09:38] that one song as his ending music for a while. Yep, but um, yeah that game was really hard to find for a bit.

[01:09:47] It is such an interesting like Zelda flown.

[01:09:52] You're at full health, would you like a sword that hits everything. Okay. Yeah, you want you want to admit the literal buster sword as your default weapon in this kind of game.

[01:10:02] Here you go. Oh man there were.

[01:10:05] There's so many bangers on the PS3.

[01:10:09] And if you get it, like, if you want the backwards compatible one people, I wish you the best of luck, it will definitely work just be prepared to learn how to apply thermal paste.

[01:10:20] But if you get like a super slim. It's, it's a champ that last and you can play with the slidey door because that's still my favorite stupid thing about that console.

[01:10:33] Like what just like, you can just open and close it at will. Oh man, no, like, it's weird I think.

[01:10:43] I think the reason why that generation gets forgotten is because we still had stuff coming out on the PS2.

[01:10:48] Like, you had Odin sphere still come out you had the persona three persona for you had.

[01:10:58] What is it, eternal poison that one came out like towards the tail end of the life. You just had like seven Shin Megami tensei games. Yeah.

[01:11:09] You still had so many masterpieces coming out on your prior console because there's no reason for Sony to stop. It was still that good.

[01:11:19] And a lot of those RPG developers, particularly the Japanese ones they hadn't really figured out the new hardware yet so they were still it was just for games that big it was just easier just to put out the games on older, older hardware.

[01:11:34] Yeah, that that was honestly I think for for that lost generation that was that was the most difficult thing like developing a game for the PS3.

[01:11:43] Good luck there guys.

[01:11:46] I mean it's like, because you think about it and like the RPGs really didn't start kicking off on the s3 until around like 2009 ish I want to say.

[01:11:59] Yeah, even because when did 13 come out was 13 nine or 10.

[01:12:04] I think it was nine. Yeah, that was that was like the first like big blow back to Microsoft.

[01:12:13] There was that and then we got so one of Microsoft's biggest like wins was they had gotten tales of Asperia, which the tale series has always been kind of interesting like a lot of people think of it as a Nintendo series because they love symphony

[01:12:27] and then symphony came out on GameCube.

[01:12:30] But then like abyss and legendia were PS2 games.

[01:12:34] And then suddenly it's on 360 with the with Vesperia, but then PS3 gets like four of them.

[01:12:42] Tales of Zillia one and two graces Zistara.

[01:12:49] Yep, that was about it for tales on PS3.

[01:12:54] No zillion one and two are masterpieces.

[01:12:58] Like graces gets a lot of hate, but I love that game like it is a very unique style and kind of a turn for the series.

[01:13:07] And then you got the combo pack with tales of symphony on the PS3 and its sequel, which was going to talk about the sequel.

[01:13:16] Yeah, I mean, or if you had a we you could play the sequel there and the sequel to Fire Emblem Path of Radiance.

[01:13:23] Yes. Oh, yeah. Radiant Dawn.

[01:13:28] So the Fire Emblem series to me, I guess we can round let's round back to Fire Emblem for a bit.

[01:13:34] That series is like Nintendo tried so hard for so many years.

[01:13:40] Like they Smash Brothers Melee comes out.

[01:13:44] Originally, they were going to dummy out Roy in Mars from the game for America.

[01:13:49] They were like, yeah, they won't know what these characters are.

[01:13:51] Let's just take them out. And then the last second, they decided against this, thankfully.

[01:13:56] And we get Roy and Mars and everyone's like, who are these guys?

[01:14:00] So Nintendo just kind of throws their luck out and is like, all right here have Fire Emblem seven.

[01:14:09] We're just going to call it Fire Emblem.

[01:14:11] And don't worry, these characters aren't in this game, but you'll still like it.

[01:14:16] Hey, shout out to the Game Boy Advance because we had what Fire Emblem you had.

[01:14:21] What was the we had what two or three on the Game Boy Advance?

[01:14:25] And so there was well, we only got two because we so there's Fire Emblem, the Binding Blade, which is I think the Roy game that we didn't get.

[01:14:33] There's the Blazing Blade, which is seven, the one we got.

[01:14:37] And then there were Sacred Stones, which was completely its own original thing.

[01:14:41] Then they had Path to Radiance on GameCube.

[01:14:44] And that game, nobody bought it.

[01:14:46] And it's tragic because now it's two hundred dollar game.

[01:14:49] Yep. I have it sitting back there.

[01:14:52] I got it right it during the boom period and paid two hundred for it.

[01:14:56] And then it dropped all the way down to 90.

[01:14:59] And I was like, shit. And then it's since jumped back up to 200.

[01:15:02] So I feel a little justified.

[01:15:05] No, like such a such a unique series.

[01:15:09] I'm a big so permadeath is.

[01:15:13] Fire Emblem, permadeath hand in hand.

[01:15:16] Now, are you anti casual mode or are you fine with it existing?

[01:15:21] I'm so I want everybody to enjoy the game and I know people are not as much of it.

[01:15:28] So I me and Dark Souls were not friends.

[01:15:31] But if I want to challenge myself and also hate my life, I'll go play seventh saga.

[01:15:36] Yeah.

[01:15:37] So I'm fine with the casual mode being there because people get to experience it.

[01:15:42] And the more people that gravitate, like look at a Fire Emblem three houses.

[01:15:48] Huge success favorite games of all time.

[01:15:51] So and then because of it, like we got Fire Emblem engaged.

[01:15:55] There's more plans for more Fire Emblem.

[01:15:58] I want to think about it, too, like Awakening.

[01:16:02] That was like the last resort.

[01:16:06] Series is dead.

[01:16:07] We're giving it one last try.

[01:16:09] If this game fails, the series is done.

[01:16:12] And then it came out at the legitimate perfect time during the three DS's early struggles.

[01:16:18] And it becomes this massive hit in America and Japan.

[01:16:23] And then suddenly Fire Emblem is now like one of the top series at Nintendo and they're getting regular games ever since.

[01:16:30] As they should.

[01:16:33] Even if I think it's kind of been like, I didn't really like Fates.

[01:16:39] Fates was Fates was lover.

[01:16:41] Hey, Shadows of Valencia.

[01:16:43] Love that one.

[01:16:44] That was good.

[01:16:45] I love three houses engage.

[01:16:48] I like the gameplay.

[01:16:49] I can't stand the character designs.

[01:16:51] Yeah, they they lean too heavily into the anime aspect.

[01:16:55] I feel they're like they look like VTubers.

[01:16:58] It's weird.

[01:16:59] Yeah, I mean, then I love that.

[01:17:02] I love the look of three houses, too.

[01:17:05] I'm a big fan of when a game looks cell shaded like we talked about it.

[01:17:11] Dragon Dragon Quest 8 or even Okami.

[01:17:14] Like remember when Okami came out, that game was so beautiful.

[01:17:18] Like I could play a potato.

[01:17:21] I could play a NES RPG or SNES RPG.

[01:17:26] Totally fine.

[01:17:27] Like graphics don't really engage me as much a story or like the gameplay.

[01:17:32] But when your game looks beautiful and it literally looks like you've opened up your own personal like storybook, you win.

[01:17:41] Oh, yeah.

[01:17:42] And then now look now look at us.

[01:17:46] We just have every RPG known to man.

[01:17:48] Yeah, we do.

[01:17:50] So interestingly, we had mentioned a game called Harvest Stella earlier.

[01:17:55] Not the game I'm going to talk about, but I just wanted to use it as a segue point because it's basically farming the RPG.

[01:18:01] What are your thoughts on like pseudo RPGs in the sense of like Harvest Moon or like Story of Seasons?

[01:18:09] Like your Ruin Factory's Story of Seasons.

[01:18:13] So I see the appeal for them because a lot of people are big fans of that cozy style game.

[01:18:22] But those same people, if you put just a nugget of RPG in it, they get even more hooked.

[01:18:29] Well, because that was kind of like what Ruin Factory was where it was like, let's take Harvest Moon and like just legit make it an RPG.

[01:18:36] Mm hmm.

[01:18:38] Like I'm fine.

[01:18:39] So not my cup of tea.

[01:18:41] Do I own them?

[01:18:42] One hundred percent.

[01:18:43] If any of you see a copy of Harvest Stella, go pick that one up.

[01:18:47] That one is fast becoming the Godzilla from PS4.

[01:18:52] Yes, it is.

[01:18:53] Switch.

[01:18:54] I mean, Harvest Stella wasn't bad.

[01:18:57] It was just kind of like, you know, it's like this was an interesting idea.

[01:19:01] They just didn't go far enough with it.

[01:19:04] They spread themselves too thin because like when Harvest Stella released, we also like Dio Field Chronicle was recent.

[01:19:10] The various Daylight Fiasco.

[01:19:13] Hey, pay $20 for a phone game.

[01:19:15] Oh, just kidding.

[01:19:16] This game is awful.

[01:19:17] It's free now.

[01:19:18] Also, like the previous year where they had already given us like Bravely Default 2, Live Alive Remake, Triangle Strategy.

[01:19:27] Love Triangle Strategy.

[01:19:29] Love.

[01:19:30] I love if you are a giant douche in the game and you want to continue to be a douche and you don't get your parties buy in.

[01:19:40] And they're just like, no, we're not going to do that.

[01:19:42] You don't get to do that.

[01:19:43] Like such a cool little mechanic.

[01:19:46] It kind of reminds me of like in Persona, Persona 4 and like 5 where it's like you can you can do like the player route and just date all the girls.

[01:19:55] But then like Persona 4 Golden and 5 decided, oh yeah, we're going to punish you really hard if you do this.

[01:20:04] Yup.

[01:20:05] It.

[01:20:06] Oh, man.

[01:20:07] It.

[01:20:08] Square Enix is a out here.

[01:20:12] I'll throw the hot button topic.

[01:20:14] They're a phenomenal company.

[01:20:15] Do they get greedy every now and then?

[01:20:17] 100%.

[01:20:18] Do they do some boneheaded decisions?

[01:20:20] Quite a bit.

[01:20:21] Look at their recent history.

[01:20:23] We're going to make the best live service game available to you.

[01:20:26] It's called Babylon's Fall.

[01:20:28] That that's a coaster.

[01:20:30] Now I have a copy sitting behind me.

[01:20:32] Legit coaster.

[01:20:33] It can spend time with the crew and mag.

[01:20:37] Oh, man.

[01:20:40] It like love them or hate them without them.

[01:20:45] The JRPG industry would be very weird.

[01:20:47] I feel.

[01:20:49] Well, yeah, because like Final Fantasy legit changed everything over here.

[01:20:55] I mean, yeah, Dragon Quest is always going to be bigger in Japan because they just love Dragon Quest over there.

[01:21:00] But Final Fantasy literally changed everything in America.

[01:21:05] Mm hmm.

[01:21:06] Like if you whoever's listening to this, if you really want to let something sink in, if it wasn't for Final Fantasy and the successors, if it wasn't for that, you wouldn't enjoy gaming as you enjoy it.

[01:21:20] Platformers were fun like Super Mario one was fun.

[01:21:23] Mega Man one was fun.

[01:21:25] Like Ghouls and Ghosts Castlevania.

[01:21:27] It's a good times.

[01:21:30] But those have a finite plateau, and then eventually they go away.

[01:21:36] RPGs last and it's that last that impact that companies took notice of.

[01:21:43] And they were like, Hey, we're going to replicate this even with our Mario's or Sonic's or whatever.

[01:21:50] Like I this may be just my idea.

[01:21:54] I don't know, but I will die on the hill like without RPGs.

[01:21:57] The gaming industry would be vastly different.

[01:22:01] Oh, yeah, 100% for sure.

[01:22:05] It's I what I love about RPGs is there's literally an RPG for everybody.

[01:22:12] Like, you don't like you don't have to be like a diehard RPG fan to truly appreciate at least one game in this massive genre.

[01:22:26] It.

[01:22:28] And nowadays the starting point is just so much better game we forgot to mention and that lost generation Nino Cooney.

[01:22:37] Everybody and their mother knows how's moving Castle Ponyo my neighbor Totoro like everybody knows Studio Ghibli is movies and animation spirited away like just.

[01:22:48] And how would you like to play a game that literally looks like a Studio Ghibli movie.

[01:22:53] Oh, by the way, here's Nino Cooney.

[01:22:56] You have that to like your dark gritty Shadow Hearts Shadow Hearts Covenant.

[01:23:03] Shadow Hearts is a series that like didn't get the love it deserved when it came out.

[01:23:08] And then nowadays it's like this hidden gem, especially its pseudo.

[01:23:13] Although it is a prequel there at the same world, but I'm so Delca.

[01:23:16] Yeah, yeah, that like I wish for me personally I wish we got more of that because like we had Koudelka we had Parasite Eve.

[01:23:26] Like I wish we got more games that had that kind of that darker feel to them.

[01:23:33] Kind of bridging the gap between JRPG and survival horror game.

[01:23:39] The biggest problem with Koudelka to me is I love that game, but you can clearly tell there was a power struggle between one side really wanted to make Resident Evil, and the other side really wanted to make a JRPG.

[01:23:53] You can tell that the JRPG side won because Shadow Hearts completely drops all the survival horror elements and goes in favor of just general Gothic horror, which to be fair I think worked better in the long run but that first game is such an interesting experiment.

[01:24:10] Honestly, like, I, and I love that we're bouncing between eras.

[01:24:16] What I love most about the PlayStation one is people were willing to take chances.

[01:24:21] So, on my old show games with John and James, John and I we talked about it.

[01:24:27] Last year, $180 billion was the video game industry's profit.

[01:24:33] More than every major sports organization North America, Europe, China, everywhere right more money in revenue than all the rest all sporting organizations across the world.

[01:24:46] That's insane.

[01:24:48] And because of it, we're starting to see a little bit of separation.

[01:24:54] Instead of the, the risks instead of the unicorn overlords which is like a once in every seven to eight year kind of thing.

[01:25:04] We're starting to let the bottom dollar dictate what we're making. And back in the PlayStation one like, because like nowadays if a company makes a flop.

[01:25:15] Hey, thanks for playing like look at for spoken luminous like for spoken flopped regardless of the praise I talked about it like I gave it earlier in the episode like it flopped luminous got fully absorbed into Square Enix and they're not going to get to make an independent

[01:25:30] game ever again.

[01:25:31] So, back in the day.

[01:25:36] You had a flop. Hey, it's okay.

[01:25:38] We're going to go back to the drawing board. Let's make something awesome.

[01:25:42] I mean you think about it like fantasy star fantasy star one phenomenal game, fancy star to also a great game. Three total flop. But then they regrouped and four is one of the greatest RPGs ever made.

[01:25:57] It. We need more of that risk, and I think, I mean, like in a in a talk about JRPG is that's like that's something we definitely ought to talk about because I mean star ocean star ocean five legit, I thought it killed the series, and then six comes out.

[01:26:14] It's a step in the right direction and then we got a remake and things are looking good again.

[01:26:19] You can play the whole star ocean library on the on current consoles and that is a testament like

[01:26:26] we

[01:26:28] I, how do I want to word this. I don't want to see gamer, I don't want to see companies stagnating and that's a lot of what's happening.

[01:26:37] I mentioned earlier, he's 10 we're going to get no east and Nordic, and this is eight all when he's 19 and it's going to have like that Nordic kind of Norse ish stuff with his with the other character that they introduced in the trailer.

[01:26:53] But it's literally

[01:26:57] No ease game has felt different since ease eight lacrimosa of Dana.

[01:27:03] It literally feels like I'm just playing lacrimosa of Dana in a new skin like monster knocks, I'm playing lacrimosa Dana in a demon skin.

[01:27:13] And I don't want 10 to do that and I think.

[01:27:16] And I think that's where like we're feasting too good that companies are just turning stuff.

[01:27:23] Which is interesting too because then like you get like an RPG that was born entirely out of a joke on Twitter.

[01:27:33] Who's a like a drag.

[01:27:36] Yep.

[01:27:37] Who would have thought, a Yakuza turn based RPG that's essentially almost like persona five. A lot of ways, convenience say oh it's both of those would you'd go from like one of the goofiest yet amazing beat them up series of all time to like this turn based RPG

[01:27:56] That still has the charm that made you Kooza the cult classic now just like mainstream series it is and it would work perfectly.

[01:28:07] It, it's a testament to a company willing to take a risk and like that risk paid off because earlier this year, infinite wealth came out.

[01:28:18] And infinite wealth, I'm gonna like I so I've played you Kooza like a dragon haven't played any of the other series.

[01:28:26] Own them just never got around to him because the backlog is.

[01:28:31] But like infinite wealth, I got to play a little bit of it.

[01:28:35] It doesn't feel like it is a copy paste.

[01:28:38] And I think honestly that's one of the biggest thing that's one of the biggest reasons Final Fantasy is so relevant.

[01:28:45] 16 is not a copy paste of 15 which is not a copy paste of 12 which is not a copy paste of 10 to which is not a copy paste of 10 like and

[01:28:55] I love that you just skipped their team entirely.

[01:28:58] So that's where they messed up. So 13 I like me personally I like 13 like is it the hallway simulator everyone wants to talk about?

[01:29:07] Yes, it is a very linear game up until the end but you can say the same for 10.

[01:29:12] You can say the same for nine. You can say the same for seven. You can say the same for eight.

[01:29:18] If you think about it a lot of Final Fantasy game like we'll just say all Final Fantasy games are A to B until you hit a moment in the game where the world is your oyster.

[01:29:30] I should preface. I don't hate 13. I hate 13 three, but I don't hate 13 or 13 to I just like to joke about it.

[01:29:38] 13 is 13 to huge improvement they listen to is a legitimately great game.

[01:29:43] It's phenomenal and they listen they give you a whole unique story for it.

[01:29:50] But I think what ultimately did the 13 trilogy in is it was kind of copy paste.

[01:29:56] They were square was so up their butt about the fabulous Nova Kristallis shit and like they couldn't let it go.

[01:30:04] This is what happens when the Muras at the helm like go let him retire have a cabin in the woods and churn Kingdom Hearts games out but not touch anything else.

[01:30:15] Yeah, I mean, full stop full send which is what which is why I'm like one we had the weird mention of earlier like soccer Gucci came back to super relevancy.

[01:30:29] It's weird that it's only on iOS. So if you have an iPad, if you have a Mac MacBook or an iPhone, you can play Fantasian.

[01:30:37] Yeah, I mean, it's a good game.

[01:30:41] Did you and if any of you are familiar with how much love he pours into his games everywhere you go in that world in Fantasian and we're talking an iOS based game is a hand built diorama.

[01:30:58] 150 hand built dioramas converted into game.

[01:31:03] That's insane and one of them was made by Akira Toriyama.

[01:31:08] All right, P legend like oh my gosh and

[01:31:14] you want to that was wholly unique like yeah you have turn based battles.

[01:31:20] It's cool that you can manipulate your abilities to hit multiple enemies but the dimension like really like oh you fought this enemy before cool you don't have to fight it again.

[01:31:31] Put it in the dimension, put it in the dimension and you can literally in explore and enjoy the beautiful world caveat though when the dimension was full.

[01:31:41] You had to fight all those things at once. So cool way to farm tons of XP to.

[01:31:48] That was a great game. Actually, a JRPG that we didn't even we were so we were talking about the PS3 era.

[01:31:56] Well that the seventh gen in general and like how a lot of RPGs completely went under the radar. I just had one that popped in my head that's one of the most unique another tri-ace game, and nobody really talks about it.

[01:32:09] Renaissance of fate or resonance of fate or whatever it is. Oh, yeah, resonance of fate. Yeah, that was awesome.

[01:32:14] The gun the gunslinging RPG. Hard to master but when you learn the combat controls.

[01:32:22] Who doesn't want to beat who doesn't want to be Keanu Reeves.

[01:32:26] I know it was like, I was so tired. That was a game that I feel like came out at like just a weird time for RPGs because like everything was trying to be super like futuristic and edgy.

[01:32:38] And like you weren't getting a lot of old stuff. So like this like RPG that comes out and it's like, hey look, it's the gunslinger RPG. It's like all guns and stuff and it's kind of modern post apocalyptic looking and it's like it's I was like when I played when I played it first I was like this is so unique.

[01:32:54] Like, why is no one talking about this. And I realized because we were just oversaturated with these like modern dark like just games. Yep.

[01:33:03] And then, yeah, the piece through is such a weird because you had like that came out. It was like the time paradox game I forget what the name of that one is guided fate time paradox. Yep, that one came out in the time eternity.

[01:33:20] The Namco one that sucked. Yep. Like and then Mugen souls. There was another one. What was the other mashup it was like Mugen souls, but it was also on the PS3.

[01:33:32] I think it was the same company. I am still like I pulled it up to figure it out but can't figure it out for the life of me. Yeah, I'm brain farting there.

[01:33:49] Oh man, it will come to me one day. Might not be this episode but I'll comment it on the episode when it comes to me. But you just had it was just kind of like a blur of RPGs.

[01:34:03] I mean, at the time we had the record of aggro aggro war games come out.

[01:34:11] Yeah, this is the that was like the generation that doesn't get appreciated.

[01:34:16] Well, it's interesting because most of the RPGs during that era were on either like DS or like PSP or Vita or 3DS like they kind of just skipped the PS3 era for the most part.

[01:34:28] Like I mean one of the Dragon Quest eight was a masterpiece and then they decided rather than jump into PS3 or we are 360 they decided now we're going to just make another DS RPG.

[01:34:41] I mean, let's be fair the Dragon Quest RPG on the Wii is not fun.

[01:34:47] Which one swords. Yep. That was a that was a game. All right.

[01:34:52] That was a what I mean there was 10 but 10 is an MMO and we're not able to play it, unfortunately at the moment so here soon though it's getting released offline version for us.

[01:35:08] They've said this so many times so I'm like very skeptical to believe them. So I'm hoping that it does come out and we can actually experience it.

[01:35:16] Well, I mean, they're riding the high like I would if you were I were there like I'd continue to ride that high like everybody loves the adventures of die the anime.

[01:35:27] The game. It's good. It's not great, but it's a nice hold me over in between your big titles.

[01:35:36] Like ride that high like 11 honestly, if we talk about like triple a pure RPGs Dragon Quest 11 and then Final Fantasy 16.

[01:35:49] Those were the last two.

[01:35:53] To a degree like 11 to me is like that is like the love letter to like just JRPG fans don't want to play like an atlas RPG, and because I'll give Alice credit they've they've stayed true to themselves basically their entire existence.

[01:36:12] Yeah, those RPGs are a lot.

[01:36:16] I love them but they're a lot.

[01:36:19] I know it's like the PS4 was such a good time but I don't think I can handle seeing persona five get really released yet another time.

[01:36:28] I think five is finally done.

[01:36:31] If anything, they're going to milk three now until it's dead.

[01:36:35] Pardon me kind of pardon me kind of wants a full remake now.

[01:36:40] So, if it gets the love that persona three reloaded got all on board with it.

[01:36:47] If it gets the love that the three and four digital only that came out and like 20 beginning of 2023. No, abort mission, do not do that to us.

[01:37:00] I. The only way I'd want it as a remake of for golden using the, the reload engine basically hundred percent.

[01:37:09] Like that would be a beautiful game.

[01:37:12] And you want to talk about like a weird irony, the Vita, we didn't even really mentioned the Vita and all the gloriousness that came on the Vita.

[01:37:20] The Vita legitimately to me so I am like one of the biggest Vita defenders, there is.

[01:37:26] And the Vita to me is like legitimately the home.

[01:37:31] Some of the most trash yet amazing JRPGs ever made.

[01:37:36] I mentioned it when I said ease eight lacrimosa of Dana.

[01:37:39] I want all of you to know Vita and literally got released for the PS five.

[01:37:45] Hey, we don't know what to do. Oh cool.

[01:37:47] PS five. We had the legend of heroes trails of cold steel like that started on PS three was mostly known on the Vita.

[01:37:57] And that's since all been re-released on PS four like an entire four game series.

[01:38:02] One of the biggest love letters to old school RPGs in a while too.

[01:38:06] I like love it or hate it.

[01:38:11] That series, like the ease series is literally one continuous story.

[01:38:19] Yes. Those four games you have to play from beginning to end which unfortunately is kind of an aspect of the legend of heroes series in general.

[01:38:29] Like because there's the trails of in the skies like three trilogy which all of those you kind of have to play one by one.

[01:38:36] The older games were a little different. Those are kind of all over the place.

[01:38:40] But now there's like all the new ones that are coming out and it's like oh my God, it's so much RPG.

[01:38:45] Yeah, like literally back on my shelf. You can literally see trails dot collection. It is nuts.

[01:38:53] Yeah.

[01:38:55] Speaking of Vita games like if you want to talk about the most obscure like what is this?

[01:39:01] Criminal Girls.

[01:39:05] Why did I know you were going there?

[01:39:07] Because I bought those games for like 80 apiece and I need to talk about them.

[01:39:14] That to sum up Criminal Girls for all of you who don't understand what Bill is referencing.

[01:39:21] I want you to imagine you're going on a trip. You've ingested probably five or six mushrooms at this point.

[01:39:27] You are seeing things that vary from being able to see sounds to monsters coming out of your closet.

[01:39:35] I want you to combine that weird feeling and condense it into a JRPG.

[01:39:40] And you have Criminal Girls.

[01:39:43] Yes, and then it was so great it got a sequel.

[01:39:49] Don't know why, but now take 12 mushrooms and you have the sequel.

[01:39:54] And then the company later went on to make Stella Glow.

[01:39:58] I loved that game.

[01:40:00] I need to get it again because my copy disappeared on me and I have no idea what happened to it.

[01:40:06] Blame the move. It got lost in the move.

[01:40:10] One of the moves, yes.

[01:40:13] Talk about a good tactical grid based RPG. Stella Glow was amazing.

[01:40:19] It's just funny because when I was playing it the first time, I'm like, what company made this?

[01:40:23] I'm like, oh, the Criminal Girls team. Good for them.

[01:40:28] You went from psychedelic experience to, for you, serious RPG. Good job.

[01:40:37] The Vita is hilarious to me too because you get games like that and then this isn't a JRPG,

[01:40:43] but I have to bring this game up every time I bring up the Vita in weird shit.

[01:40:47] It had Drive Girls on it.

[01:40:51] Do you know Drive Girls?

[01:40:53] Why are you making us go down a mushroom experience?

[01:40:57] Because anytime I talk about the Vita, I have to talk about Drive Girls.

[01:41:02] Drive Girls is literally a beat-em-up where it is big anime waifus that turn into cars.

[01:41:10] Yep.

[01:41:12] It's a game. It's not good, but I love it.

[01:41:15] That was honestly the Vita was the last like the Vita released at a weird time where it didn't get the love it did.

[01:41:24] And I wish it would have because it probably would have been irrelevant handheld up until the PS5 launched and might have had a successor.

[01:41:32] But that was the last real handheld or console where people took risks.

[01:41:39] Don't mention Drive Girls or Criminal Girls.

[01:41:42] Those are risks.

[01:41:44] If you release that today, hey, thanks for playing.

[01:41:48] Your company is gone.

[01:41:49] You've been absorbed by Microsoft or whoever.

[01:41:52] Vita also was like the home of like let's put an RPG that nobody played the first time around and let's try again.

[01:42:00] Like obviously persona for people played, but they decided let's make it even better and release it on the Vita.

[01:42:08] And hey, it's the game that people buy Vita for.

[01:42:11] How about that? Yeah.

[01:42:13] Diskaya like Diskaya three and four two amazing games.

[01:42:17] Let's make them better and put them on the Vita because the Vita can handle it.

[01:42:22] It the Vita was so ahead of its time like everybody like obviously we know through the leaks and everything.

[01:42:28] The switch to more than likely coming out probably black around Black Friday.

[01:42:33] We know that.

[01:42:35] But if you look at the upgraded version, it's literally uses the same screen that a Vita used the original Vita's the OLEDs.

[01:42:48] The nicest game screen on a handheld.

[01:42:52] I still think to this day 100 percent like I love the PSP, but it was a little small.

[01:42:57] And then you got the Vita. It wasn't small and everything was gorgeous.

[01:43:03] We'd mentioned them earlier vanilla where sphere Maramasa and Dragon's Crown were all released on the Vita.

[01:43:11] Well, Odin's fear was also PS2 remember?

[01:43:16] Well, it was PS2 originally and then they ported it to be two years later.

[01:43:20] Maramasa was we originally and they ported it to Vita and then Dragon's Crown was a dual.

[01:43:26] Yep. And then because of the Vita like because of the re-release to Vita, we were able to get Odin's fear left or seer on the PS4 as well.

[01:43:34] So if you think about it and I want I want this to sink in for you a lot of the major RPGs people that were on the PS4 and even some that are on the PS5 are Vita ports.

[01:43:48] Yeah, it's like Demons Gaze for anyone who remembers that and Demons Gaze 2 the sequel made it to consoles.

[01:43:56] That's another unique one because it's like, oh, do you like old school dungeon crawlers?

[01:44:01] Well here is this one with anime girls because all of these games have anime girls.

[01:44:07] The first one's on console now too.

[01:44:09] Oh, is it? Oh, cool. Thanks.

[01:44:11] I think here I want to make sure I quoted to you properly because I know you're like me and you will probably search it.

[01:44:17] Yep. It is called Demon Gaze Extra and on the switch and the PS4.

[01:44:29] So you're gonna have to pick it up at some point.

[01:44:37] Oh, we had also mentioned Hyperdimension Neptunia.

[01:44:40] All of those are also on Vita.

[01:44:43] It is the Vita.

[01:44:47] We speak with our dollars.

[01:44:49] We speak with our wallet.

[01:44:50] That's one of the very few ways we as consumers can hold companies accountable.

[01:44:54] And unfortunately, not enough people spoke with their wallet by purchasing the damn thing or games for it.

[01:45:01] It the what could have been.

[01:45:05] What's funny too is like the Vita is the one console I always bring up where I actually went on like a cross state road trip for because when it when Sony killed it, GameStop also gave up on it real fast and was putting everything in the bargain bins.

[01:45:23] Like fire sale.

[01:45:24] I get rid of it.

[01:45:26] I went to 12 or so GameStop in one day driving across Massachusetts and just cleaned out their Vita libraries.

[01:45:35] Yes.

[01:45:37] And if any of you are taking notes, what Bill is mentioning probably within the next year and a half, that's going to be the PS4.

[01:45:47] So it's already happening.

[01:45:50] Yeah, you'll still see them a lot on the shelves, but it's they're getting fewer and far in between.

[01:45:56] So get a question.

[01:45:59] The real question is though, is GameStop going to make it that far?

[01:46:03] So the deal with Microsoft is still there like Microsoft hasn't backed out.

[01:46:07] So I don't think GameStop will fail.

[01:46:10] I'm just wondering if GameStop will still sell games because the game the games and GameStop are getting smaller and smaller every year.

[01:46:18] They I think they have to and the like the collectible store alone.

[01:46:26] I don't see that succeeding.

[01:46:27] Like we get collectibles because they're from our games or shows we like, whatever.

[01:46:32] I mean, like you can see pop figures back there got those at GameStop from New Girl.

[01:46:36] And while in that day when I had preordered those and went and picked them up, that GameStop still had a copy of Trail of Cold Steel one and two sealed like real sealed, not GameStop sealed.

[01:46:47] For PS4.

[01:46:49] Yeah, like because of that I got that.

[01:46:54] I I know a lot of people are leaving physical media like Best Buy.

[01:46:59] Like you can't buy Blue Rays or DVDs anymore.

[01:47:01] Like if you go into a Best Buy now, it feels weird.

[01:47:04] Yeah, it's like the only physical media they have is the games and that even that is like a tiny little section shoved in a corner.

[01:47:11] Yep.

[01:47:13] Yep.

[01:47:14] I think they have to up until like I think GameStop has to do that just because if they don't the market is going to get super skewed and I know it's not their responsibility for that.

[01:47:26] But until one maybe two consoles from now when everything is digital only sadly I think GameStop will still be around with games.

[01:47:37] Yeah, I think so.

[01:47:39] Yeah, it's interesting to me just I do appreciate the rise of retro stores recently.

[01:47:45] Like we've seen just like a ton of like retro retro video games or just retro media in general like comics DVDs all sorts of stuff are popping up left and right.

[01:47:57] It's refreshing to see.

[01:48:00] But it's also kind of a sign that like the modern stuff is kind of on its way out.

[01:48:05] Yep.

[01:48:06] It who I forget what random corporate person said it but they were like, we'll stream everything and you'll own nothing unlike it.

[01:48:15] Wasn't that the the Ubisoft guy he's been the he's been pretty bad lately.

[01:48:23] Yeah, no comment.

[01:48:25] You be fail.

[01:48:27] That enough.

[01:48:29] Doesn't work for Blizzard anymore.

[01:48:31] Activision.

[01:48:32] What's Bobby Kodak?

[01:48:35] Yes, him that that guy.

[01:48:37] Yeah, no it and don't take this as me telling all of you to go shell out thousands and thousands of dollars.

[01:48:47] Support physical by physical especially when it comes to JRPGs.

[01:48:54] If you want to talk about something holding value and then maybe down the road you have like a big thing come up in you need money or you have an investment bills collection easily 120 to $150,000 easily.

[01:49:04] Probably.

[01:49:06] Like sorry to throw your collection out there like that mine.

[01:49:10] I don't know if you're going to be able to get it.

[01:49:16] If say you know I get to a point I'm never able to game that much anymore and down payment on the house or eliminating all my debt.

[01:49:22] That cheap investment that you got into by buying them when they released pays in dividends and then also in the event everything goes the way of digital physical media and digital media.

[01:49:28] It's just it's nicer it being able to pop a game in a PS2 or a PS3 play the game.

[01:49:32] Being able to pop a cartridge in my Super Nintendo.

[01:49:36] Able to legit play the game not only in the game but also in the game.

[01:49:40] So I think that's the biggest thing about it.

[01:49:44] And then you know I'm not going to be able to do that anymore.

[01:49:48] It being able to pop a game in a PS2 or a PS3 play the game.

[01:49:53] Being able to pop a cartridge in my Super Nintendo.

[01:49:56] Able to legit play the game not wait for a download or anything like that.

[01:50:00] Oh yeah.

[01:50:01] It's going to be something we miss sorely.

[01:50:04] So retro is inexpensive and expensive.

[01:50:09] So don't let don't you know don't go in there thinking I'm going to get every single game because you will hit your sui code in twos your dot hat quarantines.

[01:50:17] Your Xeno Saga 3s your lunar eternal blues.

[01:50:20] You're going to hit those walls if you want the misadventures of Tron Bonn.

[01:50:23] Good luck.

[01:50:25] The the Holy Grail of Holy Grails.

[01:50:27] Banjo Dragoon Saga.

[01:50:29] Or Albert's Odyssey.

[01:50:31] Yeah or my white current white whale Magic Knight Rayearth.

[01:50:37] Those will stop you in your tracks.

[01:50:39] Those are investment investments that some can be over a thousand.

[01:50:44] Yeah.

[01:50:45] But I want to get into collecting just don't collect Sega stuff.

[01:50:48] Facts.

[01:50:50] But for every one of those you can get a Radeata stories.

[01:50:54] Ten to twenty dollars.

[01:50:55] You can get a Dragon Quest 8 non 3DS because that one's going for eighty to ninety right now.

[01:51:01] You can get the PS2 one for ten bucks.

[01:51:03] Final Fantasy 12 if you want the PS2 version ten bucks for every expensive one there are like ten not expensive ones.

[01:51:11] Oh yeah.

[01:51:12] And there is there's a lot of RPGs we have not mentioned all throughout this because there's just so many you might have to revisit this in the future at some point.

[01:51:21] You know what he's putting it in the universe.

[01:51:24] This is part one and I know it's not my show and I can't really claim that but part one.

[01:51:29] I'm sure we'll do we'll do this again next time I need to I need a solo episode in because unfortunately we're about to hit the two hour mark and that's usually my cutoff time for these.

[01:51:41] But there's so many other games to talk about and so many other stories.

[01:51:46] And honestly one podcast isn't enough.

[01:51:51] You know I must speak this into existence bill.

[01:51:54] How would you feel?

[01:51:56] Obviously you have we have the gaming and collecting podcast network but you also have the 3DO experience that you do as well and many other ventures.

[01:52:05] How would you feel one day time permitting we do the JRPG experience and we pick a JRPG and that's our review of the week.

[01:52:15] That could be fun.

[01:52:17] We'd have to it would probably have to be a more limited show just because we have to just to keep up with everything.

[01:52:23] But it was like a little bonus thing.

[01:52:26] It could be interesting.

[01:52:28] Look at that I'm speaking ideas into other shows.

[01:52:30] But yeah so I think now is this probably the best point to kind of cut it off for now.

[01:52:36] And so once again I want to thank James for joining me for this episode.

[01:52:41] Would you like to plug your show again real quick James?

[01:52:44] Yeah so you can find us on YouTube the top tenor show.

[01:52:49] Bill has all the links.

[01:52:51] Thank you so much for that bill.

[01:52:52] We go live with our first episode May 3rd.

[01:52:55] So that's a Friday.

[01:52:56] Tune in for an amazing episode and we're going to be releasing every Friday.

[01:53:02] It's it's a lot of fun to create and I'm excited like I had a lot of fun with games with John and James coming into this new show.

[01:53:09] I'm also going to have a lot of fun.

[01:53:11] Liv is awesome.

[01:53:12] She's a wonderful co-host.

[01:53:14] She's been a good friend of both Bill and I for almost like over two years now I think.

[01:53:20] Yeah one of the.

[01:53:22] I want to say is when everything really started the co-op network when it first came into existence.

[01:53:29] And it's just fun to create if you enjoy a good list and you want to hear like if you can't tell between Bill and I we have some very unique opinions when it comes to games and it comes to memorable moments that doesn't always go with the grain and is for me I love it.

[01:53:38] So please come and check that out.

[01:53:40] Nice and I'll be sure to include all of those links in the description of this podcast.

[01:53:44] And with that everybody once again thank you for joining us on the gaming collecting podcast.

[01:53:47] The gaming collecting podcast can be found on all your major podcasting platforms.

[01:53:50] And we're going to be doing a lot of live broadcasts and live broadcasts on all your major platforms.

[01:53:53] So if you want to check that out.

[01:53:55] You can always go to the link in the description below.

[01:53:58] And with that everybody once again thank you for joining us on the gaming collecting podcast.

[01:54:04] The gaming collecting podcast can be found on all your major podcasting platforms particularly Apple podcast and Spotify.

[01:54:10] The videos are also now available on YouTube in both audio and occasional video form.

[01:54:15] And you can find all of our links at linktree slash the barber who games.

[01:54:20] And if you'd like you can join the GNC podcast network discord server where you can find all info on GNC the 3D experience geek addicts gaming anime or just general nonsense.

[01:54:32] And with that everybody we will see you all later.

[01:54:36] See ya.