Revenge of the Retro: Gen V Gaming Part 2 (Directors Cut) (ft. Chris Coplien of Retro Hangover)

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome everyone to another episode of the Friday Night Gamecast, a dedicated video game podcast

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_03]: where two best friends come together to celebrate games and bring you industry news, game impressions,

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_03]: reviews, and more.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm your host Nick and I'm joined as always by the one and only William.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_02]: What up?

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_02]: What up?

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_02]: What up?

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_02]: How's everybody doing today?

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It's our Nick, what's going on with you?

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, nothing much.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing much.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm hanging in there.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_03]: We both recently enjoyed this past Thursday an incredible movie, Alien Romulus in IMAX.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Probably my personal film of the year.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a huge alien stan so it hit all my numbers just making sure that everybody knows that

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_03]: it's good.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead and check it out there.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But more importantly, most importantly, Will, we're joined by an incredible guest

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_03]: to the show.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I've worked with him before on the Xenosaga series for Pixel Project Radio.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_03]: We are joined by Chris Cropelin.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: He's the host of the Retro Hangover podcast, which also includes the awesome and electrifying

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_03]: King of Games show inside of that where people compete in brackets and tournaments.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome, Chris.

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, thanks for having me on.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Pleasure to be on here.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Happy to work with you again.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Happy to meet Will for the first time and happy to be on the show looking forward to talking

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_00]: about some fifth generation consoles.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited to have you, Chris.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to give you a quick opportunity just to like run down for listeners who haven't

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_03]: heard of Retro Hangover yet.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Like what do you do?

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_03]: What is your show all about?

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_03]: What do you like to focus on?

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So our show as you could imply from the name is a Retro Gaming podcast.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just get right to not bury the lead there.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But we take a game that has been released older more than 10 years ago.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's our basis for Retro Gaming because a lot of people have that question.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: What is Retro?

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we go 10 years or older.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So we cover any game that meets that criteria.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes we cover industry personnel.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_00]: That's very rarely.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes we do console retrospectives.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's pretty much what we do.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: We take that game and then we break it down.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about, well, first of all, we give it a brief history and then we talk about

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: our personal experiences about it.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Then we talk about the story.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about the gameplay.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about the audio and visuals.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we talk about whether or not that game has held up today in our opinion.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that's that's pretty much what we do.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a long form kind of breakdown for a video game in a sense, but not like

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: too long form is just a very long review.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're not going over like high level plot details all the time.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just what our impressions were.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Nice, wonderful, wonderful.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_03]: So everybody go ahead and make sure to check them out.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll go ahead and do these social and link plugs later.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to take a moment now to thank our incredible patrons who help keep

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: the Friday Night Gamecast alive and running the lights and the mics on.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So I want to give a huge shout out and thank you to Lady Blake Plocks,

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Whitey Peerberg, Dave Jackson, the Intergalactic Pinecone, fabulous Brianna,

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris Ware, Eric Guess, Rick Firestone, Christopher Navi console, David C in JD.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: You're all amazing and wonderful and can't take it enough.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You have some sauce that's come in your way in the form of Oster's Wrath.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: So get ready for that one.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking about in coming just some really quick mild housekeeping.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I was recently I was recently featured on a show.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I was a guest panelist on the Boss Rush Network podcast.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Can't remember the episode number of that podcast, but it was one of their

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_03]: mainline episodes and we were taking a little bit of interstitial break.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_03]: We were talking about a ton of cool stuff like how to prepare for this

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_03]: back loaded year in terms of preparing for game industry and just overall

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_03]: like making sure that we're organizing our schedules, not getting bogged down

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_03]: too much with these industry releases.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_03]: If that's something that you'd like to keep up with.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So lots of good stuff there.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead and check out the Boss Rush Network.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_03]: That should be out this following.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_03]: That should be out already as of the date that this show will release.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So keep an eye out for that.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, we don't we've moved away from news.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I said that last time too, and then we ended up covering news every time.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But some really cool stuff just happened.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Will.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Crafted.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_03]: They saved your people.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_03]: They saved Tango Gameworks, Tango Gameworks back from the brink.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_03]: High five rush to what is it happening?

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_03]: When are they going to exclude Xbox?

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_03]: What's going on?

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Hit it with me.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, hit it.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes, because I got the inside scoop.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Me with it.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I have all the insider knowledge.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I've already talked about this a little bit in our kind of group chat

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that we had before the Goof Troop where it's like, yeah, it's good to

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: see Tango get saved from the brink.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It's never a good thing for these companies to go under or get laid off

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and then people to lose their jobs and have to kind of scatter to the winds.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Occasionally you'll get something nice where maybe they make their own

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_02]: company with Blackjack and Hookers and then it's fun.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And minus the Blackjack, minus the Hookers.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So they get to have a blast doing themselves.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_02]: However, when you get picked up by Crafting, which I'm like,

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a little antsy.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm very much on the column A, column B.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Could be a good thing.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It's always nice to see somebody continue to have employment.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you get picked up by Crafting and then things is a little bit

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_02]: out of the frying pan into the fire situation.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, we're going to do high-five rush to, but we're going

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: to take away everything that makes it cool and you're going to make it

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_02]: boring and brown.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, great, awesome.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: This should have never happened.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Who's Crafting?

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I've never heard of them.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_03]: They are Korean publisher.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_03]: They're responsible for a lot of Korean MMOs, but they most recently

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_03]: built and funded striking distance studios with which did Callisto Protocol.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So they have deep pockets.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: They have deep pockets to do it, but they don't necessarily

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_03]: have a publishing pedigree to assure.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I will say that I saw on Twitter that the director for Hyper Rush,

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I think his name is Johan Jansen, potentially that could be wrong about that.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Correct me if I'm wrong, folks, but he tweeted, we're back and better than ever, baby.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_03]: So he tweeted that out.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_03]: My assumption with that is that they bought the studio, which

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_03]: the hope they're in is that they're bringing back all of the team

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_03]: that worked on, whether it's the Evil Within or if it's High-Five Rush.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully they're bringing back the folks who were already within that studio

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and they're going to work on it from there and they're giving them creative liberties.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_03]: But who's to say? Who's to say really?

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see it when it's got to find out.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_02]: There's just got to find out.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be hopefully optimistic, right?

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to will cautiously is more specifically.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to be cautiously optimistic with it.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to see what they do with the team if they can bring back that IP.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So we'll we'll kind of see how it turns out.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: The bad thing about deep pockets is that usually they have unreasonable

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: expectations at the end of the day.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Like we're going to pay you a lot of money.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You got to give us a lot back in return.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So I can I can feel that cautious, cautious optimism.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_02]: This will happen my poor dead space.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, you got to sell this many millions of units.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, it's not that kind of game, dog.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to push units like that.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_03]: They'll never get it.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_03]: They never will get it.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_03]: But hopefully we can wait 12 years down the line to get our

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, a dead space to remake.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But until then, let's go ahead and take this moment

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_03]: to jump into our gaming updates for this past week or potentially longer.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris, you are a steamed guest of the show.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I like you to jump in first.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Let us know. Have you been playing anything?

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_03]: What have you been working on right now?

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_03]: What are you looking towards?

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So lately, I'll just say within the past couple of days

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_00]: because like I'm spread out in so many different areas.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's my fault.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm for some projects.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm playing Dragon Quest five for the Super Famicom or Super Nintendo.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm playing the original and that game is just like a warm blanket.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: It's some good traditional JRPG goodness.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Nice. There's just there's a lot to love about that game.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think enough people have played that.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of people have said they liked it, especially the JRPG

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_00]: in the JRPG space because of the Nintendo DS release

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: that came out a while ago now.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: That's like God's like 15 almost 20 years.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: That's it's been forever, but I'm playing on Super Famicom.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's just as it's just as fun and as lighthearted as I've ever remembered it.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also doing some stuff.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I played some games for our patron show, I O Saturnalia.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So I played some World Series Baseball for the Sega Saturn.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is a very basic baseball game.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not something you need to go run out and play immediately.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's good like it doesn't do anything bad.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I played a game called Off World Interceptor Extreme.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a game.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a thing.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's one of those things.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's not horrible.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And some of the things about it has those cheesy mid 90s FMVs.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you all know what I'm talking about.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. Where especially like the 3D O style.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a crystal dynamics game.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So they're kind of making fun of themselves.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I have to go see if this was a 3D O game where it was called Off World Interceptor

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: because what they do is they they have these cinematic cut scenes

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and then they place the mystery like not like the Mystery Science Theatre 3000 guys,

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_00]: but like a Mystery Science Theatre 3000 kind of

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_00]: overlay on it or theme to it.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So they have these cinematic scenes that they filmed

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and then they're making fun of the scenes the entire time that you're playing.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It actually kind of annoying.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You can't turn it off, but it's it can be fun.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: It's I won't say it's funny.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's ridiculous. It is dated.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just like this is a 1995 Saturn game

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_00]: when we know how things were kind of more hoity-toity in 1995,

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_00]: especially when it comes to video games.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And there is there is one scene like in the middle of the game

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: where the guy says like you're just making shit up like, hold on.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: This is I think this is a teen rated game or an E rated game.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're just dropping the dropping curse words. OK, here we go.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And then like in the very opening cut scene, too, like they they are like cold

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: blooded because there is this one character.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, this is 1995 where they look at him and say,

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: oh, does that guy want to beat the crow?

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And the other guy says, I wish it was the crow

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: because then he'd already be dead.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, holy shit.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Did they that's too dark?

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_00]: That's too dark. That's not T for teen.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: No. Oh, man.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: This certainly is an experience.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll give it that.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So I can't wait.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I need to write my thoughts down on that and do that.

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But I am happy I played it because like that's a time capsule.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just blowing my mind.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: The kind of stuff that was out there

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: that probably a lot of people don't even know about.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really curious about that, too.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think because of like the references

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and how kind of, you know, off the wall it is,

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_02]: is it maybe a localization thing?

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Since it was, you said it was a Genesis game, right?

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Or Sega Saturn game.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like Sega Saturn.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, you have I'm assuming, you know,

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_02]: the Japanese version than the English version

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_02]: that was brought over.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think it's like a localization?

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of like a ghost stories.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: They gave the English crew a kind of carte blanche

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_02]: to just make whatever like references

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and things they want to in the scope of the game.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Or is that just how the game is?

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's a completely Western developed.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, OK. So like from the very interesting.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think I would have to look at the history of it.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it seems like it was a 3D game

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and then 3D was, I mean, perfect topic for today.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So the 3DO 3DO is we all know took a shit.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it wasn't a colossal failure, but it was a failure.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And so Crystal Dynamics and a lot of these other companies

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: started porting over a bunch of their games

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: to the PlayStation and the Saturn.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So I have to go see if this is one of those games

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that was ported over.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they just redid the cinematics

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: because we all knew they were cheesy

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and they just made fun of the cinematics the entire time.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And so like it's it's so weird.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And after I died once, like I died, the game gave me a game over.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Went back to the menu screen as soon as I went to the menu screen.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: There's like a two minute advertisement

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: video for Crystal Dynamics games.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like what is happening?

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: What is going on?

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's wild.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But that that's been me for that's been me.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_00]: That's my gaming experiences lately.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Gotcha. Nice.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, what's been going on with you, bud?

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So I've been not playing as many retro games,

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: but however, I have dipped my toes into the retro a little bit.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_02]: It's fun.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So got another one of my good dad friends, Paul,

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and Nick came over and hung out with him for a while there too.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So we were all just having like a dudes day, playing some old retro games.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_02]: He has a crazy backlog of like consoles and games

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_02]: that we were just kind of geeking out over.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But one of the things that we got a chance to play with

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: as the three of us that I was aware of

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_02]: but never actually played the full on beat them up game was Captain Commando.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was very fun just running through.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I love those little side scrolling kind of beat them up.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I've gushed on this podcast many times

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_02]: about the recent Shredder's Revenge game

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and how I like those kind of side scrolling, you know, just punch them down.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Still have Streets of Rage 4 on my console

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_02]: that I need to play as soon as possible.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's like another kind of blind spot in my backlog there.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But back to Captain Commando had a fun time with it.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_02]: You just run around beating the crap out of people.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's having their goofy little animations.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's back in, I'm guessing it was like early 90s, potentially mid 90s.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't I didn't actually check the date on the game itself.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, as the classic moves, you got tickets, ninety two, ninety one.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that sounds about right as far as like, you know, that area.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So you're fighting women as well.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it doesn't matter equal opportunity fist

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_02]: when it comes to the asscroller beat them up.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you like you punch the ladies

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and they have like the seductive lay on the ground pose

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_02]: when they're like, definitely I got uppercut by a baby in a mech.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_03]: So honestly, the craziest and like my personal favorite of the characters

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_03]: to play as the baby, the baby mech is just wild.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And it just said baby.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it didn't say anything else.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just the character's name is baby. I love it. I love it.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was fun.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_02]: We got the chance to go from A to Z.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And you can tell while playing,

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_02]: it is just one of those pure arcade coin suckers.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you get the hell beat out of you by all the enemies.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, your character, you take like three hits and you die.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: They throw 20 people on screen at the same time.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So they expect you to be sitting there pumping

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: $30 of your parents' hard earned cash into that machine

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_02]: so that you can get to the end screen.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Luckily playing it on the console, we just had the, you know,

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: pick continue and continue on through.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But it was fun going from A to Z very quick.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was like what, maybe 20 minutes, 15 minutes

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_02]: at like the most of us just beating the hell out of people

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_02]: from the beginning to the end of the game.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was fun.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, you got to put your your three initials in at the end.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're getting the tit, you know, we're doing ass.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_02]: We got throwing the classics right there.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you just bring it back to the arcade days.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was very fun.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_02]: More modern games that I've been checking out recently.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I have been playing a lot of Flintlock.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I did talk a little bit about it on this podcast,

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_02]: but I didn't really get into a deep dive on it.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_02]: That was more so on the Elder Scrolls podcast

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_02]: that we had recently talking about Jeopardy, which

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think really made the cut because of how long and crazy that episode was.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think so.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I won't get too, too crazy with Flintlock as far as in depth here.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But the big thing is it's like a soul's light type of game.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you have Game Pass and you enjoy these souls kind of,

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, formula, but want something switched up,

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, you don't like it as maybe

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: dark as the souls games are or the lack of story

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_02]: because there is a story here that they continue through

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and they give you cut scenes, et cetera.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I would definitely recommend Flintlock.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Give it a try.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_02]: The platforming is very fun.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's another change up because there's a lot of verticality to the game

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_02]: as opposed to maybe more of a Dark Souls, whereas like there is some verticality,

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's like you're kind of jumping.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And in my opinion, at least what I see in a little bit I played

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_02]: is like almost you're doing against what the game wants you to do.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Like generally, you jump too far, you take a lot of fall damage.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_02]: When it comes to Flintlock, you can take fall damage,

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_02]: but you have a double jump that's kind of in world

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: because you're using black powder to like propel yourself upwards,

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_02]: which is very interesting.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But you can also use that to avoid fall damage.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're jumping from really high,

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_02]: you'd like do your double jump at like the last minute before hitting the ground.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You kind of like propel yourself up a little bit

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_02]: so you're not just splatting the ground.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So very interesting.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You got your main character, Nor, and then you have your side

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: God who's helping you kill other guys named Enki,

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: who's like a bird fox thing.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But he's very cool.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You can use him while you're fighting in order to stun enemies

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and set them up for different combos and moves.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_02]: They give you a couple of different weapons

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and like blades, axes and hammers.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And then a big part of it is the firearms themselves

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: when I mentioned like the black powder.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So you can use that kind of in the bloodborne ishway

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_02]: to where if an enemy is attacking you

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and they have an unblockable attack,

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_02]: you shoot them with your gun and you stun them,

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of setting them up for more combos or like a counter move.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So generally, I'm not a big fan of Dark Souls games.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I bounce off of them pretty quickly,

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: but I'm about done with this game.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So once again, if you're maybe feeling it,

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: if you're maybe closer to the Jedi,

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, survivor Jedi fallen order type of souls player

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_02]: versus the more traditional souls game.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that Flintlock falls firmly in that kind of Jedi camp

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: where it's, you know, they got those elements,

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: but it really not as beholden to it

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_02]: as some of those more games with souls on the end of it.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So very fun.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Highly recommended just kind of giving it a check out.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It has taken away some of my attention from Kanditsu Gami,

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_02]: which I've definitely gushed on this podcast about.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe that says something about it there, too.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Nice. And then last but not least,

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: this was just for shits and giggles.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing really like fun playing it.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But I was just like, let me check it out

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: because it's free on Game Pass.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, let me give it a shot every three or so years.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I boot up a call of duty.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Just remind myself why I don't play Call of Duty games.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is no exception.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: No exception at all.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Played through some of the single player

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and I was like, oh, it's pretty fun.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I might find myself potentially beating it.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_02]: They do have these new levels that I'm not really sold on yet

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_02]: that are just like called open levels for single player

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_02]: where it drops you into a mission

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and it gives you just a knife

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're supposed to just complete the mission itself.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But as you run around,

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_02]: you can pick up different guns

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and find different boxes that have weapons and guns and items.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And then they unlock going forward.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So that if you ever want to replay through that level,

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_02]: you can do a new loadout with the guns and stuff you found.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't really know how much I love that.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I can see it interesting

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: if you want to kind of repeat that level.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But I've never been the kind of person

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_02]: to just want to play cod single player levels

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_02]: over and over and over again.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's not necessarily for me.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But of course, the bread and butter for Call of Duty

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_02]: is going to be the multiplayer

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and the multiplayer is the multiplayer.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Right? It's it's Call of Duty.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not doing anything special.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_02]: You're going in there.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_02]: You're shooting people.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_02]: They're falling down.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_02]: You're calling in missiles on top of people.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_02]: You're committing war crimes in set.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, constantly is just it's Call of Duty.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So the only thing that got really bad

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_02]: is that the more modern Call of Duties are so

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: that shit insane.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm running around and shooting Nicki Minaj in 21 Savage.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I have on my team a Gundam

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and Zombie Frank Woods.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just like this is it's literally just fortnight.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, Call of Duty, like they really leaned very heavy

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: into the monetization from just kind of pulling from different

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: areas of pop culture and their own history and stuff like that.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you have some maps that are like, oh, here's some fanmade maps.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: One which was just so I disgustingly egregious was

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: it was like, oh, I'm trying to think of it.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Think of the world's worst haunted house.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But then it's all glowy in neon.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And every character kind of looks like all shaded in black

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: because of how bright and nasty everything is.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And now make it a four by four room.

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So when you're spawning, you're looking a bad guy directly in his pupils.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what it was like you spawned I spawned I.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's like shipment if you take away all the shipping boxes.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So just you're just staring at someone as you spawn and getting lit up.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It was horrendous. Very, very.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I just know there are some 12 year old that there's that's their favorite game.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It was the worst was the worst thing I've ever done.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So booted it up.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, this is really cool.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably going to go home and delete it immediately.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So just I mean, we got to talk about the fact that like, OK, so shout out

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_03]: to to Philip and Dave from the Gaming Together podcast.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_03]: They actually had invited us on to talk about this.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_03]: We had issues.

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I had issues on Sunday in terms of stuff that had come up

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and we weren't able to make it.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, you had I had downloaded this game with every intention

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_03]: to like at least try the campaign, at least try some of the multiplayer

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_03]: to play it. And you came over well and played it on my account for a little bit.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And how batched insane is they had like a WWE collab where there was this map

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_03]: that was specifically designed for you to like it was like close quarters,

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_03]: like CQC combat, but it was designed for you to like down someone

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and then do just the most insane, ridiculous, like wrestling takedowns

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_03]: in the game itself.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And it actually was like the absurdity was kind of funny.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And like there was an announcer over the intercom that was like, oh, no.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_03]: He just broke him over his back or something like that.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. I don't know if I'm this remember.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's like, oh, he just broke his spine.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, here comes the steel chair.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Your character pulls a chair out of their ass

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and just like smacks someone across the forehead.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I appreciate the absurdity, but like this is that's

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_03]: is this where Call of Duty is today?

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it can only assume exactly what it's.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So is this like this is modern warfare three?

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. This is a remake of the this is the remake.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Right? Yeah, it's it's like a remake.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I know they went on a different route than the old, you know,

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_02]: like modern warfare games themselves.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, this is like they have a lot of the same characters

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_02]: like Macarov returned at the very beginning of like the game three.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_02]: They have gas.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_02]: They have shoot was the skull face guy.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone likes ghosts.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they got ghosts.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like a remake, but it's more of I guess maybe reimagining

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_02]: is a better term because they go in a different direction.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's it's a lot of Call of Duty.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It's don't don't get it.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't know. I still remember when it was just modern warfare.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, OK, and then it's been like 50 more releases since

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_03]: feels like 50 years. Cold War, you got Vanguard.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like it's almost I don't know maybe if this is y'all's perception

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_03]: when it comes to Call of Duty, but I feel like the zeitgeist around the game

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_03]: is that like the campaigns are there or like the main line entries are there

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_03]: to like appease the most hardcore of hardcore fans.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But the bread and butter of what Call of Duty has become has become war zone

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_03]: at its core, like people want to play that Battle Royale or I feel like the Battle Royale

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_03]: has the most cash in like the multiplayer gaming community period

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_03]: at this point. I don't know. Do you think I'm off base there?

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I got tracks.

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like a lot of people are going towards the Battle Royale more than

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: the multiplayer. I think the multiplayer itself dies for the Call of Duty games

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot faster than Mono Warfare.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Not Mono Warfare, sorry, the war zone does,

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_02]: especially because they try to like bring in just like how Fortnite does

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_02]: the different chapters and seasons.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's just like an ongoing live service, never going to die situation

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: versus oh, I'm going to have to go buy the new Call of Duty game

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: for want to play that multiplayer specifically for like Black Ops 6 coming up,

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_02]: for example. Yeah.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't know how people keep buying this.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just wild. You get all this DLC, you get all this content

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and then a year later, you just have to kind of just fuck it's all gone

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and you get a new game.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know people who buy these games annually

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're just like, yeah, I'm hyped.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get like the extreme one hundred and fifty dollar editions.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, are you going to play the previous one?

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Nah, maybe a little bit, but they just drop everything.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'll say what you want to about Fortnite,

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_00]: but there's no like Fortnite five at this point.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you buy all that DLC you bought, you're still playing,

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_00]: but people are buying all this DLC for this newest Call of Duty.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't work for the next one.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So I could not imagine putting that much money into one game annually.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But then I think about how much money

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I put into multiple games annually and maybe I'm the dumb one.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. Yeah.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But I can't I can't comprehend it.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think it's something that's interesting.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Like we got to talk about the Call of Duty effect right now.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, like, you know, the whole conversation around

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_03]: like whether or not you're paying for it kind of hinges on

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_03]: whether or not you have Game Pass because it seems to be or at least

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_03]: assumption is that like the Xbox's model right now is that if you have Game Pass,

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_03]: you're going to get the latest and greatest Call of Duty day one with Game Pass

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_03]: or at least the multiplayer of that of that release.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Who knows how they'll change their monetization strategies

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and further in the future.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, if you are a Nintendo player, if you are dedicated,

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, Sony fanboy, you don't own anything else but a PS5

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_03]: or maybe like a Switch, you know, you're going to be paying.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I just but the interesting thing about that is that if you are a PS5

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_03]: gamer or if you are a Nintendo gamer, the likelihood of you being

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_03]: like a one game a year or two game of the year, you know, the people.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_03]: We talk about this all the time.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_03]: The audience who just plays cod, FIFA and Madden or NBA 2K, like those

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_03]: are the games that they play every year, which is valid.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Totally fine if that's what you like.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_03]: But I feel like there is a substantial audience of gamers.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Like there's like this perception of a lot of I talk about this all

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_03]: the time with Gen Z and Gen Alpha gamers when they say, oh, you're a gamer.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_03]: What they mean is that you either play Fortnite, Apex,

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Minecraft, Roblox or Cod, right?

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, or Minecraft, right?

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Like that that is the definition of gaming.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like, you know, the people's perceptions and understanding

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_03]: that evolve over time.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But I feel like the weird thing about looking at Cod now, watching

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_03]: William Suplex, a guy Suplex and Nicki Minaj and then, you know,

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_03]: whip out, you know, a bazooka and like, you know, splatter

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_03]: twenty one savage across the thing.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, OK, this has become something altogether different

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_03]: because that audience that does just play Cod every year, nothing else.

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_03]: They want probably want something different.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like this has become this weird amalgamation of it.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a shadow of what Call of Duty used to be.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It's very interesting to me.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_03]: It's very peculiar.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's just it's strange.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It's strange. But, you know, as in today, like you mentioned,

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: people going to pay for it, they're going to keep dishing it out.

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_02]: They had like an attack on Titan crossover a while ago,

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_02]: which I was just like, what is going on here?

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. That's what I was saying.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Right. You kidding me?

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So now you see like Reiner and his Titan form running around with the AK-47.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just like, this is just my brain's hurting.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just wrong. It's just wrong. It's harsh.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And you did say that I know I'm running along, so I'm not going to go too

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_02]: too crazy. But you mentioned in the gaming thing,

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: like what we're looking forward to as well.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Nick, you already know what I'm about to say.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_02]: We've been we would talk about this in the Twitter chat for a long time.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Space Marine 2 is right around the corner.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And I am reaching unheard of levels of hype

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: when it comes to this game right now.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking at the videos.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm reading previews and people talk about how great it is.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm checking out stuff from Digital Foundry, where they're, you know,

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_02]: breaking down the beauty of this game, which is gorgeous.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just like, I'm going to drop everything

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_02]: in just steam roll.

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to straight up mainline Space Marine 2 when it comes out.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you going to request time off for work?

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Is this a is this a vacation request type game?

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good question.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good question. Look, look, it's not out of the question.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Will I do it? Probably not.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But if I'm if I'm playing week one and, you know, things are going too hectic

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_02]: at home and, you know, I can't find time to do it at night or something like that.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I might just be like, boss, I'm not feeling too hot.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Just randomly caught the flu after the game came out.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I got the fever.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I only cure.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I got the fever to take down more enemies.

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I have to chainsaw blade some bad guys.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Got to pull up my boat.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_02]: There's going to be a cowbell.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Just start wrangling.

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_03]: The only cure is to serve out the emperor's will.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly. I love it.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no. Is that August 30th?

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that what we're looking at August 30?

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's the end of the month.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, yeah, I've been I've been hyped for that all year.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_03]: So we already know we got we have a just insane rest of this year.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm looking forward to it. Chris,

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_03]: were you like have you been had your eye on any modern games coming out

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_03]: towards the end of this year or you kind of?

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. OK. I mean, I'm still trying to play modern games that I got.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: OK. I got Eudon Chronicles.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been playing that if we want to get modern

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to work my way through it.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I always just get distracted having to do other things.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. But so I could barely tell you about that.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just it's long and there's a ton of characters to recruit.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of like warrior Pokemon or JRPG Pokemon.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. Gotcha.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: There's if you play Suicoden, it's a lot like that,

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: except not as well written, I think. OK.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of what I'm looking forward to,

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I've already preordered it.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: East 10 is coming out in a few months.

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's been out in Japan for a long time.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So I had this thing, I think last year or the year before

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: where I kind of had this theme that I played through all of the East games.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And I did.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I played all the way through East 9.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So now I'm waiting for us to play East 10.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And that way I can do some sort of project with that.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm always that this is this is the curse of being a podcaster.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You're always trying to think of a way to turn it into content somehow,

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: some way. Yeah.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So but that's I'm looking forward to that one thing

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking forward to not making content out of it.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Why probably will anyway?

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you know what I just said, metaphor looks incredible.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it does.

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just hope I can fit that into my schedule

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_00]: because I haven't been able to do that with like anything new.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So metaphor blows my mind.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just it looks so much like Persona 5, but just way weirder

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and set in just a completely different fantasy world.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is definitely 100 percent my jam.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm all about that very stylistic presentation

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: as long as the gameplay can back it up.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And since it's Atlas and since this is the persona team

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: from what I understand, you know, I'm I'm hyped.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm there. I am there day one.

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Incredible. Incredible.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I know a good friend of our show, Kevin from Project X Talk.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Kevin is a huge fan and he's like he's big on JRPGs.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I, you know,

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I won't say I'm new to the JRPG realm

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_03]: because I've dabbled in it before, but I feel like me doing content

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_03]: has what sent me full blown into just absolutely

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_03]: the adoration of JRPGs genre played Persona 3 this year.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Did you touch Persona 3 reloaded at all?

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Or is that something that you did in the past

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_03]: and you're done with Persona for now?

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I own it. OK.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00]: My son, my son played through it and he beat it, though.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_00]: He's big on the Shimagami Tensei series and that umbrella.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's like I definitely want to try MetaFore Roof Fantasio.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to try Shimagami Tensei five vengeance.

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So hyped for it.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Just, you know, Atlas is killing it.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Atlas is killing it. I can't I can't get over there.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to need you to be

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_03]: you're eating good. Persona 3 first fan right now.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to need to be Balder's gate three first

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_03]: on a slip before I get to that.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's that goes perfectly into what I've been up to.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I've had a lot of real life stuff that I've been kind of grappling with.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But obviously, you know, based on our episode

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_03]: being out and live and available in all podcasting platforms,

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I beat Fire Emblem Fates recorded on it with Jala.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_03]: What a fun game.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_03]: What a fun entry into the Fire Emblem franchise.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I rolled immediately into Fire Emblem Awakening after playing that

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_03]: because there was so much comparison that was going on.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And they released shortly like in a very short time span between each other.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Fire Emblem Awakening is, you know, most famous for obviously

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_03]: being the game that saved the franchise because

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_03]: because it, you know, Nintendo was ready to shut down intelligent systems

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and, you know, kind of push them off or do whatever.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, Awakening came back and sold really well.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm playing that now having a great time with it.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just more Fire Emblem, right?

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't have to get too deep into it.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I have been deeper into Baldur's Gate three.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I just got to the point where I, you know, again, as I relate to you personally,

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_03]: well, I'm not quite done with Act 1, but Act 1 is like super long.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a lot of stuff there.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But I, you know, finished the Goblin Camp scenario.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I came back and then I just recently started.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_03]: There's like a there are the Tieflings that are in the Emerald Grove

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_03]: and they want to celebrate with you after you kind of basically save them

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_03]: from the goblins, you know, you're planning to absolutely decimate their,

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, their whole area.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So you save that so you don't want to party.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's trying to sleep with me.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's trying to have sex with me.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_03]: It's it's great, you know, the, you know,

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_03]: about the Dusters and Dragons dating simulator is fantastic.

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But I've been doing that and then slowly, but surely the unicorn

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Overlord grind I've been stuck on these like strategy RPG grinds recently.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's it's definitely a process.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, stuff that I have kind of returned to but came back out of

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm working with Rick again.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_03]: He invited me back on the show and we're recording on a game

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_03]: that I have played.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I you boy, you gentlemen see it in the dock here,

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_03]: but I'll kind of save it because I don't know if he wants to keep it on a raptor.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_03]: If he's released the schedule for PPR coming back,

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: but it's kind of retreading old ground there.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And I also get the chance to try out a new Game Pass release

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Dungeons of Hinterberg.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Really, really cool.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of combining just like it's got this very, very nice aesthetic.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like this interesting.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if I could characterize it as like a Voxel art

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_03]: or this like very high contrast cell shaded art

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_03]: that's imitating, you know, comic book, you know, backgrounds,

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_03]: but it's very, very well done.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not voice acted.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, there's a lot of reading that is involved,

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_03]: but this is just beautifully aesthetic.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_03]: There's great sound design.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_03]: There's great soundtrack that's in the game.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a score that's just very ambient and peaceful.

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's basically just about this lawyer,

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_03]: this German lawyer who's tired of her life

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and she wants to go be a dungeon crawler.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So she grabs a sword and a backpack

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and heads off to this magical area called Hinterberg

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_03]: where which has these dungeons appearing kind of very similar

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_03]: to a lot of isekai anime that you'd be familiar with in the present day.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And so she's jumping in there and, you know, her your job when you go there,

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_03]: it's kind of like a resort situation.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_03]: They put her up in a hotel and they're like,

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_03]: all right, just go down there, go to that statue over there

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and get some magic powers and she does it.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It's very casual.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not super far into the game,

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_03]: but I do understand there are some persona like elements

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_03]: that come to play with you, you know, building up relationships

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_03]: with the various NPCs that are in the area.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not 100 percent sure if they join you in combat later on,

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_03]: but I have a suspicion that this game is going to get crazier.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So I might keep it on the backlog.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to try to stay focused.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to listen to Will.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to get distracted

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_03]: because I have to finish Baldur's Gate

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_03]: before Space Marine and Astro Bot come out

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_03]: because my life is about to get hectic.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, that's everything I've kind of been up to right now.

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go ahead and take a quick break.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And when we come back,

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_03]: we're going to be talking about our topic of the show today,

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_03]: which is our favorite Gen 5 console games

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_03]: and our favorite consoles of that generation,

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_03]: which is a huge topic.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to come back.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So bear with us and we'll see you next time.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Next time?

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Next time.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Dragon Ball Z.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you after the break.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back everyone.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_03]: We're talking about our topic at the show today,

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_03]: which is our favorite Gen 5 console games.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a topic that Will and I have discussed before.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Will is honestly,

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to be keep it real with all of our audience members today.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I am not the retro guy.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not as knowledgeable as I probably should be.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_03]: The difference this time is I actually lived through this generation

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and gamed through this generation.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So I have hands on primary experience

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_03]: with a lot of titles that we're going to be talking about today.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_03]: But I, you know, obviously I touched base with Chris for this show

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_03]: because he has just this plethora of knowledge and obviously,

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, the direct hardware, you know,

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_03]: today that he can go in reference and talk about like some of the interesting

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_03]: intrigue there and will obviously I know you're a deep well of knowledge

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_03]: when it comes to this sort of thing.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So we had to bring in the big guns, though.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_02]: We had to make sure Chris is on here to keep me honest

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_02]: before I come in here and start capping.

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_02]: No pressure.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So we'll go ahead and talk about it today.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I have a lot of questions to kind of like lay the groundwork

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_03]: for this for this conversation,

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_03]: but I would like to kind of start this discussion just by asking each of you,

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, where you were in life when you started, you know,

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_03]: playing these games or like what is the most, you know,

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_03]: fond memory you have of your experience with,

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_03]: whether it's the PS1 N64 or Sega Saturn?

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris, can we start with you?

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So when did this generation start like 93?

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Depends how you how you measure it.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You could say it started with I think the 3DO is generally accepted

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_00]: as the starting point for this generation or or CDI, though,

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_00]: those earlier ones Jaguar maybe.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're getting into like the the 93, 94 area.

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, like the very first platform I played with this,

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_00]: my neighbor had an Atari Jaguar actually.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And I would go over to his house and

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_00]: cyber morph was the name of the game that was packed in, I think.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_00]: How did you learn to fly that game?

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But eventually we did pretty much every other Jaguar owner did

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and played a lot of Alien versus Predator because at the time

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_00]: that that game came out, it was actually good.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And even though the controller was a complete fucking disaster.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But this is when I was like eight, nine years old during that time.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So in terms of what I had going on in life, you know,

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_00]: these are the formative years of gaming.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I was big already into the Super Nintendo Sega Genesis.

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: That was what I was hooked on, but moving into the new generation.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's that's something that especially when you're

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_00]: you're a kid in a pretty affluent suburban neighborhood,

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_00]: you have the capability of being psyched for all of the new

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_00]: more expensive consoles.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So like we knew that the PlayStation was coming out,

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_00]: the Saturn was coming out and 64 was coming out.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, the more I look back at it,

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_00]: the only thing I really cared about at that time was

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_00]: the Nintendo 64.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, that was something that was really driven

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_00]: successfully by Nintendo with games like Killer Instinct

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and Cruisin USA in the arcades when you'd walk past it

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and you'd see, you know, coming for your ultra 64,

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_00]: nineteen ninety five.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, yeah, I can't wait and didn't come out

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_00]: in ninety five came out ninety six.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's that was the big hype machine because you were

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_00]: a Sega kid or you were a Nintendo kid.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And Sega was just throwing all these three things at the wall,

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_00]: other be the Sega CD or the 32 X or, you know, the Saturn.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember getting a game and former.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was the Christmas of ninety six.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty sure as the Christmas of ninety six may have been even

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_00]: been ninety seven and

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_00]: had to be ninety six because infamously in our show

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_00]: we have what's called the three console Christmas where

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_00]: our family got all three consoles on one Christmas night.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's insane.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But I remember reading that game and game and former

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was like, I don't even know what the PlayStation is

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's like an October issue.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what the Saturn is.

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. Like, I don't know what's going on with the Saturn.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I have no.

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_00]: View, which is funny because that ended up being

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: probably my favorite console of that generation.

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that was it was a really interesting time.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it just felt like everything was moving

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_00]: so slowly relative to today because

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_00]: like if a game came out one year and you didn't get a sequel for three years,

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_00]: you thought this is like the series was dead.

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Like that was it.

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You would never you're like, what's happening?

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It's been so long since we got a new game.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Just kind of puts a lot of perception and how we age

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and how we view things in the passage of time.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's kind of how it was.

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even even though everything was moving very rapidly,

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, when you're 10, nine years old,

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, five years is an eternity forever because that's half your life.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's kind of where I was at that time.

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was just anxiously anticipating the Nintendo 64.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I just started getting into RPGs and then when you heard about

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, Final Fantasy 7 being put on the PlayStation,

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_00]: all of a sudden it was maybe I do need to pay attention to the PlayStation.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe this is a console I need to put some investment in.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it will be a big deal.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of my friends that made in middle school

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: right after we got the PlayStation

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_00]: brought over this little game called Resident Evil.

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And all of a sudden I was like, OK,

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_00]: like this is a serious console, Final Fantasy is coming out on this.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_00]: This game is incredible.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's just there's so much going on here with video games that

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: like I went from being a good student in elementary school

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_00]: with a video game hobby to just being a horrible student

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_00]: with a video game addiction.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go. Yes.

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_00]: The pipeline is so real.

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's fantastic.

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, what about you?

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you think about your your life, you know, during the N64 PlayStation

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_03]: one, Sega Saturn, you know, all of these other consoles that Chris just rattled

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_03]: off I had no fucking clue about.

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Right. Oh, you are familiar with the Jaguar.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I've heard of the Jaguar actually, but I didn't think it was real.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't think anybody actually owned it, but they totally did.

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's that's on me.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a lot.

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_02]: There's so many funny things like looking back on the retro consoles

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: to obviously doing like a little bit of research as well.

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just so funny when you're looking back and seeing things like the 3D.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm saying, oh, yeah, that was a thing.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I never owned it, but you know, you just hear about it.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You growing up, I feel like in gaming in a certain time frame,

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't really know about kids these days.

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, maybe they don't respect their elders like that.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But I would do like research on old games and old consoles

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and even stuff I never played.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd know of, you know, I'd know about the virtual boy.

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I will say I did not know about the Fujitsu.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: That is that is new.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_02]: That is a new thing that I saw.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: But like even the Pippin, I was just like, oh, yeah, I forgot.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I like I've heard of that.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, I was nowhere near it.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I was never going to touch it.

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Stop making words up.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Stop making this.

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not real.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_02]: That's fake.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But as far as my actual like experience with this generation,

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_02]: it's very interesting because of my age, right?

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, nowadays I'm an elder gamer.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm 32.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But thinking of the coming being born in 1992

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and then these consoles effectively, you know, starting

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_02]: and coming out like 93, 94, et cetera.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I was learning how to walk by the time

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_02]: this really got started up.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So I had, I guess I could say the.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_02]: In my opinion, like I feel like I was blessed to do it.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But starting with the original, you know, like the SNES

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and even like I had a straight up NES back at the house, too.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was way predated me.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But being able to play on some of those,

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_02]: do track and field on like the old NES

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and then play Aladdin and rip my hair out in the Super NES

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and then when I'm like older and more well adjusted to gaming

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_02]: in general, being able to pick up a PlayStation,

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_02]: which was my first and I'm pretty confident

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_02]: my only console home console that I had out of this generation.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I had friends that had 64 and I'd go over there and play GoldenEye

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and I had a.

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they were a friend.

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I think at the only time I really had a chance to play Saturn games

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_02]: with maybe those kiosks that like, you know,

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Kmart, if you're old enough to remember that,

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_02]: where they'd have the console locked up behind a glass case

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and then the controller sticking out of that glass case

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: with like a little thing so you can't rip it off the wall

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and you would just sit there while your mom shops

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and you play video games, demos for like an hour and a half.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was the only time I really got a chance to mess with that.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But the PlayStation itself, though, you know,

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: very interesting how it came about.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_02]: We maybe talk about this a little bit in the future,

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_02]: but I always just thought it was cool.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_02]: The whole Nintendo partnering with Sony to potentially do something.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And then that falling through.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So Sony just being like, I guess we'll do our own thing.

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And then now seeing where we're at in 2024.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, what a what a wild kind of like turn of events

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_02]: that that turned out to be.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm trying to think I don't even remember the very first game that I have.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I know we're talking about our like favorite games later on,

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_02]: but just to kind of pull one in.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I do know my favorite experience was with Crash Team Racing

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_02]: in the original PlayStation and just running around with that one.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It was like really my first racing game, because once again,

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't own a 64, so Mario Kart wasn't really on my radar like that.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But just being able to enjoy Crash Team Racing

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and having like a little weird story.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And that was probably the first time that I jumped into a quote unquote sports game

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and really had a good time with it.

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's always going to be a nice memory for me

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and playing that with some friends and even my tricking my parents

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_02]: into playing it one morning before school.

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember if I was just like whining or what,

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_02]: but just like they were sitting on my bed, you know,

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_02]: playing Crash Team Racing with me like seven in the morning

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_02]: before going to school.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm always like, oh, this is cool.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That's an awesome memory, honestly.

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_03]: That's that's great. That is awesome.

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_03]: When it comes to, you know, my my touch point for the experience,

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_03]: obviously, when I born the same year, we're 92 babies.

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, at this point with these games like slowly rolling out,

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, obviously it had, you know, with with computer gaming

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and all of that, you had a very rich lineage of video games

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_03]: prior to this point.

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And obviously, you know, the 3DO and, you know, NES, Super NES,

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, everything that Nintendo was working on prior to this,

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, was gaining momentum.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I pulled like a quote here that was interesting, you know,

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_03]: from an article kind of discussing the console war between

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Nintendo, Sony and Sega is that according to some sources,

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_03]: folks say that this generation, Generation Five was the last

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_03]: quote unquote console war that mattered, which I thought was

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_03]: really interesting in terms of like how competition panned out

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and how things changed.

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, from my personal outlook, obviously being very young

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_03]: when the, you know, when the when the N64 came out,

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_03]: the N64 was my very first home console.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I had a Game Boy color shortly prior to that,

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_03]: like maybe a year before that might have been like a gift

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_03]: on my birthday from my dad as I got one of those purple

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Game Boy colors or maybe some of this stuff happened

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_03]: contemporaneously.

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_03]: My memory is a little hazy on that, but it's also funny

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_03]: because, you know, obviously this coming out Dragon Ball is

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_03]: he being out at the same time, Transformers being out,

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, me obviously still watching Power Rangers at that

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_03]: point, my parents slowly growing, increasingly concerned

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_03]: about the amount of screen time that I had like parents

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_03]: still had this perception at this point in the 90s that

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, too much TV is going to rot your kid's brain and

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_03]: it'll turn you into a little, you know, a little crazy

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_03]: personal miscreant.

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, they probably weren't entirely wrong, but

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_03]: there's some logic there.

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_03]: There's there's some there's some truth to that.

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_03]: But but yeah, I very remember fondly getting the N64 at

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_03]: a birthday party and I can't remember which one if it was

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_03]: like six, seven or eight.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, I definitely got that.

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And that was a I was, you know, a wonderful experience

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_03]: for me and obviously, you know, Super Smash Bros.

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of like solidified in my memory of the times

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_03]: like, you know, you could bring your N64 controller and go to

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_03]: any number of your friends house and every single one of them

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_03]: had Smash Bros.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And you would learn at home.

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_03]: That's like your fighting game that you cut your teeth on.

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_03]: You would learn like the the down be moves for whoever

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_03]: is your favorite.

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you picked Pikachu, everybody fucking hated you

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_03]: because it's so cheap, you know, in the 64 iteration

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_03]: of Super Smash Bros.

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, no, it's honestly, it's a great time.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I was sad kind of, you know, in retrospect,

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I only had friends that had PlayStation One.

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So a lot of my touch point and PlayStation One games

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_03]: came from ports in newer generation consoles.

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Or, you know, I'm actually going back or playing

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_03]: on friends consoles at that point in time.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, there's there's just a ton of fun stuff

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_03]: that kind of was baked into my experience there.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, obviously as a kid with parents

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_03]: who weren't as keen on me sitting in front of the TV

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_03]: for a number of hours, I had limited amount of games

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_03]: that might expose a limited amount of stuff.

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's a it's a little bit, you know, of a pole.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, we talk about what makes this generation

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_03]: five unique or special to his predecessors,

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, for the listener's reference.

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously it's higher grade processing power for the consoles.

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_03]: The computing in like the actual technology leaps

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of exploded during this era.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Each of the devs and the publishers

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_03]: for the various studios that they were coming out of,

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_03]: whether it's Sony, Nintendo, Sega took this generation

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_03]: very seriously from a business front.

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_03]: And obviously there's that transition from 2D to 3D.

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_03]: We already had mentioned it before,

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_03]: but like obviously the big N64,

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_03]: the name comes from the fact that the cartridge

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_03]: is running 64 bit gaming.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, the comparison to, you know,

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_03]: obviously the PS1, you know, they had the kind of

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_03]: it was revolutionary to use compact discs

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_03]: if I'm not mistaken, Chris, you know, for that console

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_03]: it was the first time that was done

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_03]: but still that had 32 bit gaming.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris, was there anything that you kind of wanted to like

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_03]: add in there in terms of what made this generation special

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_03]: compared to the predecessors?

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, first and foremost was what I think was the introduction

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_00]: at least here in the West for a lot of people

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_00]: for a CD-based console.

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You did have CD-based consoles before this,

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think the major ones were add-ons

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_00]: like the Sega CD or the PC Engine CD.

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_00]: They weren't necessarily standalone units.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And here in the United States, we didn't buy those.

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_00]: The one we bought the most was the Sega CD

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and that wasn't even really a roaring success.

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So there was a lot of doubt when it came to CD-based consoles.

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, 3DO, CD-based, CD-I obviously CD-based,

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_00]: but you had the Atari Jaguar N64 that were cartridge-based

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and so one of the big selling points for a lot of kids

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_00]: that would argue with their parents

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_00]: or argue with their friends about which console was better

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_00]: when it came to the N64 versus the PlayStation is,

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_00]: well, the N64 doesn't have loading times

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_00]: so that automatically makes it a better system

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_00]: because loading times were a thing

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_00]: that you had to contend with back then.

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a big, big deal.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you're playing Mario 64

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and everything's snappy and everything's instantaneous

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and then you're gonna go over to your friend's

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_00]: PlayStation and you wanna play Street Fighter Alpha

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_00]: or Street Fighter Alpha II

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and you have to wait three, four, five seconds

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_00]: for every single battle to load.

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_00]: That becomes something that you're talking about

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_00]: but that stops mattering especially when you get

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_00]: into the mentality that a lot of us had back then

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_00]: was are the graphics better

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_00]: because of that technological leap that you said?

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of these games were getting some hype

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_00]: based off their cinematic full motion video, the CG.

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you go back and look at it today

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_00]: everyone's like, oh, this looks like shit.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You'll look at Final Fantasy VII's CG movies today

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_00]: like on a, from a PlayStation.

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_00]: They look primitive as all get out.

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they look bad.

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But in 1997 that was mind blowing

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that any console could do that

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and the Nintendo 64 couldn't, cartridges couldn't do that

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_00]: unless they were severely compressed

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_00]: but a CD could because of all the space

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_00]: that it had on there.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think this is the time

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_00]: that developers really started recognizing

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_00]: what a CD based medium could do

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and how important having extra memory is

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_00]: when it came to making games

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_00]: because even when you go back to those other CD games

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_00]: on like the Sega CD or Turbo CD,

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_00]: they're just games that look like they could be

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_00]: on the system with slightly better music

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and occasionally an animated video.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_00]: They're not really taking advantage

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_00]: of what the CD platform could truly do

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_00]: with certain exceptions.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, you get right into the PlayStation era.

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You get right into the 3DO.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_00]: You get right into the Saturn

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're instantaneously doing that.

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And that just left Nintendo in the dust

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_00]: with graphics that were decent.

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_00]: They were technically better than the PlayStation.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But in overall presentation at the end of the day,

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_00]: it just couldn't compete with what could be offered

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_00]: especially by the end.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that was very unique

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and one more thing that was very unique about the time

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_00]: is this was kind of the last generation

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_00]: where you saw people who weren't necessarily

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_00]: major players try to get in.

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So again, and the 3DO is,

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to mention the 3DO a lot,

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_00]: but it was really the one that introduced it.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_00]: The 3DO itself wasn't even really a company.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people associated with Panasonic,

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_00]: but from, I'm going off the cuff here

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_00]: so I might have a lot of inaccuracies,

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_00]: but essentially the 3DO was Trip Hawkins' brainchild

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_00]: where essentially he was trying

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_00]: to make a standardized media format

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_00]: much like you would associate with DVD or Blu-ray

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and that they would license out that hardware

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_00]: for other people to pick on and develop,

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_00]: pick up and develop.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is why you have like Gold Star and Panasonic.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's another one that made 3DO.

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So they were just licensing out the hardware

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_00]: for hardware developers for manufacturers

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_00]: to take advantage of.

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's actually a very forward-thinking idea

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_00]: when you really think about it.

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It just didn't work out.

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But then you had Phillips jump in

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and they tried to make a console,

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Apple jumped in, they tried to make a console.

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And so this is the last time

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_00]: in video game console history

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_00]: that you're really seeing any of that.

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You're seeing weird competitors come in

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_00]: with really weird consoles trying to take a stab at it.

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And the majority of which just completely crashed

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and burned as you would expect.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's always interesting

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_00]: that you see those little footnotes

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're like, what the hell is that?

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's always a curiosity

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_00]: that I never get tired of.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's so interesting.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And you talked about this as well, Will,

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_03]: earlier when it comes to that war

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_03]: that the business intrigue behind Nintendo and Sony

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_03]: supposedly having a deal

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and then Nintendo just being like, eh!

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Sony being like,

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_03]: well, I guess we have to do something now.

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Do either of you, are you aware of any specifics

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_03]: surrounding the business competition of this era?

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I was very curious about this

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_03]: because I know that there are several documentaries

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_03]: that cover this generation at this point in time.

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But I was curious as to what your perspective was.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because that's definitely gonna be,

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that you nailed it right there at the end.

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like there's so many different articles only,

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_02]: but documentaries and things that you can read

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_02]: that are gonna be a lot more.

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't wanna spitball it too, too much.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But that is just my understanding

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_02]: as far as the Nintendo and PlayStation

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_02]: having that kind of falling out,

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_02]: which opened the door for Sony to go over,

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Sony at the time, sorry,

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and Nintendo having the falling out.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Opening the door for Sony to go ahead

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and take the information

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_02]: that they had already started kind of gathering

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_02]: for that CD add-on that they were planning on doing.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And then making the PlayStation itself,

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_02]: which ended up being a gigantic success.

[00:55:16] [SPEAKER_02]: You look at the overall sales

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of at the end of the gen.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just like you see the,

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_02]: they have, I think on Wikipedia,

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_02]: they have like the bar graph,

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_02]: but of course if you just look at the numbers period,

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_02]: was 100 million consoles versus the 64,

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_02]: which is I think in second place

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_02]: with significantly lower bar.

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_02]: For whatever reason, and I say whatever reason,

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_02]: but I know the PlayStation when it first came out was 299,

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_02]: which in my opinion is kind of unheard of for that time,

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_02]: considering you look at something like,

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_02]: we just mentioned the 3DO there again.

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And then when that came out,

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_02]: it was like 700 when it first came out.

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So it was like the N64 was like 500 at market.

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no?

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_00]: N64 was 200.

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh wow, okay, okay.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So they were definitely there

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_02]: as far as like the competitive price points,

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_02]: but then I think maybe that just comes back to

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_02]: exactly what Chris was saying when it's like,

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_02]: you're comparing it to your friends

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_02]: who had the PlayStation or who has the 64.

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you're looking at those graphics there.

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You still have that bit of console kind of loyalty, right?

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, let's continue to even into our generation

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_02]: or your team Xbox, your team PlayStation, whatever,

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_02]: but that's there.

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you got your friends

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and your friends maybe like a 64 hound

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and he's talking about how great it is and I have this.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I got this,

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_02]: shoot, I can't remember the name of the thing right now,

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_02]: but you know, you plug in your cartridge, right?

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it's good to go and we're rocking and rolling

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_02]: versus your friend who's like,

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_02]: oh yeah, you know, you got your disc

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and it gets scratched up and you can't play it anymore.

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, well, I got my, you know, Final Fantasy seven,

[00:56:45] [SPEAKER_02]: which what was it like three, four discs when it came out?

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, and this could never fit

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_02]: on your cartridge, right?

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You can only have three or four cartridges

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_02]: that you're going to plug in back and forth.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a fun back in the day

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_02]: where you're like, oh, it was kind of neat being like on a team.

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And then now we see how toxic it is.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God, how does that, how what it's become?

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the monster that it's become.

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know, obviously having that in 64, the cartridges,

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_03]: like there's the whole conversation

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_03]: between like the CDs versus the cartridges and stuff

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_03]: and obviously the processing power

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and like the fluidity of like what the cartridges,

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, we're offering.

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was also like there was this kind of understanding

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_03]: that, you know, exactly.

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I think what Chris was saying is that how important

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_03]: it was to developers at this time

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and to publishers of having that power to save memory,

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_03]: having that extra memory was like something

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_03]: that really like galvanized and changed

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_03]: the shape of gaming today.

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And obviously you see that reflected on in the next

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_03]: generation when you know, the PS1 or excuse me,

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_03]: the PS2 and you know, era of kind of gaming,

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_03]: but you know, something that I have always been curious

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_03]: about was the fact that, you know,

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_03]: everybody always talks about the PlayStation, the N64.

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I never owned a Sega.

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I never owned anything in terms of a Sega hardware console.

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_03]: If I'm not mistaken, the Dreamcast was the very last

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_03]: console, but I was very curious as to like how

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_03]: the Sega Saturn performed.

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Like do you both think that the Saturn was like the

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_03]: death knoll for what Sega was going to do in terms

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_03]: of the hardware console market this generation?

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes and no.

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_00]: There's so much going on, there's so much to the story

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_00]: about Sega that is more leading up to the Saturn

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_00]: rather the Saturn itself because this is something

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I repeatedly say, the Saturn was not a failure in Japan.

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's considered to be a failure in Japan

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_00]: so to speak.

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It was actually sold more units than the N64 in Japan.

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's just a little side note that like gets

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_00]: glossed over a lot just because when it did come over

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_00]: in the West, it relatively bombed outside of like

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_00]: certain sectors in Europe where it was somewhat

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_00]: popular.

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But of course, if you got to do the localization

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's not worth it, you're just going to drop

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_00]: it in that area.

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to the Saturn itself,

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not necessarily the Saturn.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It's more the horrible lack of business savvy

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_00]: that Sega had in that like mid 90s, right?

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Before the Saturn came out.

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Because when you look at Sega as a console developer,

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_00]: they just had a different mentality than Nintendo did.

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Nintendo moved away from the arcades very quickly

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_00]: because their bread and butter wasn't necessarily

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_00]: on the arcades.

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, their success was born mainly out of Donkey Kong

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and that being a smash hit.

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But then they realized quickly,

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Shigeru Miyamoto to his great credit

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_00]: realized how to make a console game on a console

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: with Super Mario Brothers.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's really the definitive console game.

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you're because everything else prior to that

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_00]: with few exceptions again,

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_00]: but most of the games that are coming out,

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: they were trying to aim for that arcade experience.

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So that was something you definitely saw in the NES

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and Master System era was you get the arcade at home.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So that was Sega's mentality a long time

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_00]: for the console market.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And so what you got with,

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_00]: with was it Tom Kalinsky when they started getting

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_00]: into the Sega Genesis,

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, console launch itself.

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And when you think how this lasted up until yeah,

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_00]: they still had very much a mentality of creating games

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_00]: with the arcade experience in mind as a whole.

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, you had Sonic the Hedgehog,

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: which was a big game,

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_00]: but that was really developed to be that marketing

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Trojan horse.

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what Sega was good at.

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Sega of America specifically because again,

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: the Genesis was suffering in Japan.

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But what Sega was good at was marketing

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and it doesn't really seem that they,

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: they were extraordinarily good at the business end.

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_00]: They were good at having people know who they were

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and being interested in being cool.

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of just managing everything else,

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_00]: they just didn't understand it.

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of things that have come out

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: within the past couple of years

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_00]: that kind of expound on that

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: where they just had,

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_00]: they overestimated the success of some of their games

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_00]: where they just had millions of dollars worth

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: of backstock sitting in their warehouses

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: that no one was ordering.

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And this was Genesis.

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: This wasn't exactly the Saturn.

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_00]: You have to think they put a lot on the Sega CD.

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that kind of flopped.

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I won't say it was a total failure.

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably sold better than a lot of people think it did.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But then they bet way too much on the 32X.

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_00]: They were expecting people to just eat the 32X up

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: because they had this belief

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: that the Genesis was super popular.

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And so they're like, well,

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: the 32X is what people are gonna want

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_00]: because we don't wanna move on from the Genesis.

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think they're Sega to Japan

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: telling that the Sega of America,

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: like, hey, keep the Genesis rolling.

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you have to remember in Japan,

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_00]: the mentality of consoles was too

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: is you could keep those generations going forever.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're making Famicom games up until 93, 94.

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_00]: They're making Super Nintendo games

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_00]: up until like 99, 2000.

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_00]: They just have that different cultural approach.

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So when they see that the Sega Genesis

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: is very successful in the United States

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_00]: they're probably telling Sega of America,

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: hey, we need to extend this.

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: We have to take advantage of this.

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And Sega of America, more information came out

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_00]: that Sega of America was approached by Sony at the time too

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_00]: because Sony wanted to make their console with Sega.

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And Tom Klinsky, I think it was Tom Klinsky

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: took that information went to Sega of Japan and said,

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: hey, we can make a console with Sony.

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: They want our work.

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: They wanna get into the video game industry.

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: We worked for them before they know our secrets.

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_00]: We think, I think this can be a thing.

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And Sega of Japan was like, we don't need Sony.

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: They need us.

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Finally, like the Saturn, the Saturn's coming out.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And it seems like there is a lot of confusion

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: as to what the Saturn was supposed to be

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: in early development because Sega was taking

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: the approach of, you know, rumored that they thought

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_00]: the next generation of gaming was going to be very similar

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_00]: to the 16-bit generation of gaming

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and made it a 2D powerhouse

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_00]: because technically the Saturn can't do polygons.

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Everything is just rendered.

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't put the wording into it

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_00]: but it's not really a 3D console.

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: All of the 3D graphical effects you see on the Saturn

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: are actually magic.

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like 2D sprites made to look like 3D polygons.

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It's fascinating.

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_00]: The architecture behind it.

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people say that the 3D chip

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: was put in at the last minute.

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't necessarily seem to be true

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: because why would they do that when they,

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: or the creators of really the 3D video game craze

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: with virtual racing and virtual fighter?

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So it seems like they had the idea

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_00]: that they wanted to have a lot of 2D gaming

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: but at the same time realize they needed to have 3D gaming

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: but they just didn't know how big that would be

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: or important it would be

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: when they probably started development

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: on the console in 1993.

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is probably around the time they did that.

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas Sony, Sony probably, not probably,

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: they had a lot bigger budget to invest.

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_00]: They could take a lot bigger risk

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: so they could solely focus on something like,

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_00]: hey, let's just make it a 3D console

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a thing to do 3D very well,

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: especially when you're working with Namco.

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And they create an arcade board with Namco

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: that would essentially mirror

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: what the PlayStation was capable of and that was techin'.

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a ton of business intrigue that goes on here too.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I think another thing that's big

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of business intrigue is

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_00]: you go to that E3 in 1995

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_00]: when Sega did the stealth drop of the Saturn

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_00]: which was a horrible decision

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and probably that was the real thing,

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_00]: that was the death knell

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_00]: when they were just like, yeah, it's at all the retailers

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and the retailers were like, yeah, we did all that.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, too stealthy.

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Not to mention that it only released in certain markets.

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're making announcement to the entire country

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and entire United States

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: that this console is available,

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: but it might only be available in New York

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and Boston and LA.

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But like, it's not available in Chicago.

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not available in Cleveland.

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not available in like,

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: but fuck Egypt in Iowa or something like North Carolina.

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not.

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not available there

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: because they're not major markets.

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So you have all these people

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: who are probably looking for to the next Sega console

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're told it's out

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and they can't, they don't see it there

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_00]: or they don't see games

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and their launch lineup was weak.

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But the thing is, is like a lot of people think

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_00]: that Sega was directly competing with Sony.

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there is some truth to that.

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But remember, they still thought

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: the N64 was coming out in 1995

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and Nintendo was king of the mountain.

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think what a lot of people,

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_00]: what a lot of developers were doing

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: if you kind of look at Sega's decision making

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and what they were planning

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and what games they did and didn't release.

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I think they were more of concerned

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: with what Nintendo was doing

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: than what Sony was doing.

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think if Nintendo too had taken Sony seriously,

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_00]: they would have made a better effort

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_00]: to get the N64 out earlier

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: instead of delaying it to 1996

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_00]: because that's kind of,

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that Sony kind of came out of nowhere

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: with its PlayStation.

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anyone anticipated that success

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: based off of what they had seen

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: with the 3DO, CDI and Atari Jaguar.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, yeah, newcomer,

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_00]: we're just going to get bowled over.

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously that didn't happen.

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they have a lot of market share in that time

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_02]: when they came out earlier

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and 64 kind of had to sit on it.

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that did a lot of damage to them during that gin.

[01:06:08] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so interesting kind of thinking about all that

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and all of the happenings in the work around

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_03]: it was also interesting stuff

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_03]: that I know that happened with games

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_03]: like apparently a game that I'm talking

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: going to talk about later on, Tony Hawk Pro Skater,

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_03]: which was so important to my formative experience

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_03]: and curating my music tastes as a young man.

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But obviously it was really interesting.

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I was reading online that apparently

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_03]: one of the most fascinating things is that people argue,

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_03]: what was it better on?

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Was it better on the PlayStation?

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Was it better on the N64?

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Apparently people say that the best edition

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_03]: of Tony Hawk Pro Skater was on the Dreamcast

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_03]: because of all of the IP and music licensing

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_03]: that Sega was able to do on the back end.

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Apparently to release on the PlayStation

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and the N64, they had to pair back a lot of the music

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_03]: that was kind of brought into that game

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_03]: or like meant for that game

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_03]: because of for whatever reason

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_03]: like there was legal issues that were behind it.

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_03]: So obviously Nintendo was very as always risk averse.

[01:07:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think Sony this generation

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_03]: obviously was trying to,

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_03]: they're trying to get their feet wet.

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_03]: They're trying to get out there

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and generate some revenue with this thing.

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So I love the competition.

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Another question that's gonna be kind of a hard question

[01:07:21] [SPEAKER_03]: to answer, but something that I feel like

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_03]: you both are gonna be very well suited to answer

[01:07:27] [SPEAKER_03]: is talking about if we're looking forward into the future.

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_03]: If we're looking at the future and we're like,

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_03]: okay, the PlayStation 6, the Xbox series L,

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_03]: you know whatever they wanna call,

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_03]: however they wanna package this next generation

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_03]: of hardware that we're going to get

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: or your next generation of games itself.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_03]: To extrapolate beyond that,

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_03]: if you could look back at Generation 5

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and what these companies did with their video games

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: in this era or what they did with their consoles specifically,

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_03]: is there anything in terms of like aesthetics

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_03]: or strategies or approaches you think

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_03]: that they would want to bring forward in

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_03]: to newer generations of consoles

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_03]: if we're gonna learn directly

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_03]: from what happened in Gen 5?

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm thinking as far as like with the games

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and aesthetics especially just because doing this research

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_02]: for this generation maybe look back

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: in all the games I played in my yesteryear

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and just getting very sad and nostalgic

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_02]: for kind of what things used to be, right?

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, same thing, I mentioned it a little bit

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_02]: before we got to this, but I'm gonna talk about as well.

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Things like Perrappa the Rappa

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's so hard to just find off-the-wall games

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_02]: like that, they exist.

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Not saying they don't exist,

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_02]: they're very much in the indie space

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's why we've been talking about

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_02]: for the last couple of years,

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_02]: especially indie games are just really moving

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_02]: the needle a lot for myself

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and Nick and the people that we've been talking about

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_02]: just because they're the ones

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: that are taking more of those risks

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and they don't always pan out

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_02]: but I just love seeing things

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_02]: that are a little bit different.

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I can enjoy my games that are kind of in that same vein.

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Talk about Solzies, we talked about shooters,

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_02]: talk about this, but having something new

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_02]: come out of the woodwork,

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: gush about it before, Konnichi-Gami.

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: For me Konnichi-Gami is not the kind of game I play,

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't really do tower defenses

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_02]: but the game has such a beautiful presentation

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's so unapologetic with what kind of game it is.

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the kind of stuff I wanna see more of

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: so that's the big thing for me looking at Gen 5

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and all the different games

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and what we were kind of given.

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I wanna see more off-the-wall items

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_02]: brought forward into the limelight

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_02]: for these newer generations of consoles

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and I want them hopefully from like the first parties.

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like Nintendo does their thing,

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_02]: they got their Mario's,

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: they got your Samus,

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_02]: but Metroid you have your Donkey Kongs

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_02]: occasionally you got your Legends of Zelda's

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and they'll switch it up occasionally

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_02]: but at the end of the day you're getting those things

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's like really what you're getting that console for

[01:09:48] [SPEAKER_02]: which is perfectly fine.

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Same thing with PlayStation,

[01:09:52] [SPEAKER_02]: we know we've had plenty of issues with them,

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_02]: they seem to forget that they have IPs

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_02]: like God, we got like infamous

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_02]: just sitting there rotting.

[01:10:00] [SPEAKER_02]: We got things like Resistance sitting there rotting,

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_02]: so many different things that they could kind of bring

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and shake up and they're just not choosing to,

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_02]: people are beating the walls for Bloodborne,

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Remasterer, PC release whatever.

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So I really want in the next generation

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_02]: just to kind of widen our range

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_02]: falling a lot into these Battle Royale games,

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_02]: these rust where you're doing like the survival type

[01:10:24] [SPEAKER_02]: of games and those are cool

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_02]: but I just love to see more variety

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: when it comes to especially a first party console

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: being like hey here's a game directly from Sony PlayStation,

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_02]: here's a game directly from Nintendo

[01:10:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's weird and it's goofy

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and I want you all to enjoy it

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_02]: because this is somebody's like a love child,

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I want them to bring in more developers

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_02]: who have really strange weird visions

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_02]: that they want to bring to life

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and just throw money at them

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and let them have a good time.

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty much the same thing.

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanna see the return of major Japanese development

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: is I think that really comes down to

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: is because what Will said there,

[01:10:59] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of things that were said was

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_00]: those weird experiences,

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: those abilities to try something different,

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: try something fresh,

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: that was for Sony a lot of that was with Studio Japan

[01:11:11] [SPEAKER_00]: which has been shut down by Sony

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_00]: in favor of doing the more cinematic experiences.

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So I want games to kind of be games again

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: if that makes sense.

[01:11:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate there is definitely a space

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_00]: in video games for any kind of video game you wanna make

[01:11:29] [SPEAKER_00]: it be a cinematic series experience

[01:11:31] [SPEAKER_00]: to be not even technically a game

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_00]: like visual novels or walking simulators or whatever.

[01:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: There's plenty of space for all that stuff

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_00]: but at the end of the day

[01:11:39] [SPEAKER_00]: like that weird kind of childish naivete

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: that is associated where it was associated

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_00]: with video games much in the 90s

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and being major focuses of the first party developers

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that's important.

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I think Nintendo does that

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think Nintendo leans too much

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_00]: on their existing IPs to do that.

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Like everything's a Mario

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: like they use Mario to push those things

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: or they get in conjunction with Ubisoft

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: to do like Mario and Rabbids

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: which are fantastic games don't get me wrong

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: but they're not like creating anything new

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of brands or IPs or anything like that

[01:12:16] [SPEAKER_00]: which is again, you're looking at an industry

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: that was still 10 years removed

[01:12:22] [SPEAKER_00]: from the release of the NES.

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's pretty much in its infancy

[01:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: these brandings aren't necessarily established either.

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So there is also that

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: which is probably why Nintendo has the ability

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: to lean into their IPs and other IPs

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: even if the games are fantastic.

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to take anything away from them

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_00]: but in terms of Sony, yeah.

[01:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean Xbox was never about that

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Microsoft was never about that.

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: They were always kind of delivering

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: on what was the thing, the trend

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: because they're always trying to establish themselves

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: in one way or another.

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean think about it

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: the Xbox 360 is a big console.

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Why?

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Because Gears of War looked absolutely phenomenal

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_00]: on HD television.

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what it was.

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And Halo was the game that broke open the Xbox.

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't really have those goofy

[01:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of out there games from Microsoft all that often

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: if like you can even think of one off the top of your head

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and it'd be a relevant title.

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Blink the time kit.

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, exactly.

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Where's Blink?

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Get his Blink back.

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And I have never played that game

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: so I'm not gonna say it's good or bad

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: but it is just an attempt for them

[01:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: to kind of grab that Mario market

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and not being incredibly successful.

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, there's like no real passion in it

[01:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: if that makes sense.

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Cause I'm looking at some of the games on your list

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: that you're gonna be talking about here soon.

[01:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm looking at the pot rapper, the rapper.

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at Ape Escape.

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm looking at those games

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's kind of like this was some goofy ass shit man.

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But like it was necessary.

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Like that was just the overall feeling of the time

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's kind of contrast with the general feeling

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: of the 90s itself here in like the United States

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: because everything was just so grungy.

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It was starting to move into that brown, gray, kinda

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't wanna say nihilistic kind of view on the world.

[01:14:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't quite there yet but we were moving there

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_00]: cause Gen X is Gen X and I love them

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: but they are very nihilistic

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_00]: but that's who had the most purchasing power at that time.

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what was being advertised.

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're moving that direction.

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you have these bright colorful Japanese

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: weird experiences that we just don't get

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and in a mainstream platform anymore.

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I miss that.

[01:14:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm 100% with Will on this.

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, and transparent consoles.

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yes, Microsoft finally got the message.

[01:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But I want those back.

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I have my transparent Microsoft.

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember the name of the thing

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_03]: but it's A.I. have my translucent blue controller

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_03]: from Xbox and they're now so I'm very happy with that.

[01:14:47] [SPEAKER_03]: They got the message and they know what they're doing.

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't agree with both of you more.

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean you hit the nail on the head.

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I think specifically for me if I'm thinking of

[01:14:56] [SPEAKER_03]: what games this generation did is

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_03]: similar to what Chris was saying,

[01:15:01] [SPEAKER_03]: obviously the childish nevité, games being games.

[01:15:04] [SPEAKER_03]: You load it up, you turn the power on

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_03]: and within seconds you're having a little dude jump over

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_03]: with fun whimsical music,

[01:15:12] [SPEAKER_03]: stomping on turtles whatever the case may be.

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_03]: You're jumping into paintings as Mario

[01:15:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and Mario 64 and things are fresh and new again.

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think something that is obviously

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_03]: that occurred here that is existent

[01:15:24] [SPEAKER_03]: in a lot of the games that we're talking about here,

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_03]: whether it's gonna be Crash Team Racing,

[01:15:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Per App or The Rapper, Castlevania is something

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_03]: in the night is that there is baked in linearity

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_03]: to the games regardless of whether or not

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_03]: they're trying to be very much like a

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Captain Commando style experience

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_03]: like an arcade shoot-em-up or beat-em-up style game

[01:15:45] [SPEAKER_03]: that is something that I feel like developers

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_03]: should come back to or should kind of

[01:15:52] [SPEAKER_03]: create some type of reconciliation with

[01:15:54] [SPEAKER_03]: is that realize that I think a lot of gamers

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_03]: want more consistent, short, digestible games.

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And I know that games now because

[01:16:04] [SPEAKER_03]: of where we are in the console generation

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_03]: and we're so focused on power, power, power,

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_03]: resolution, computing capacity, multiplayer,

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_03]: all of these different elements

[01:16:12] [SPEAKER_03]: that we forget kind of about the focus

[01:16:16] [SPEAKER_03]: in how hard design elements are to games

[01:16:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and that there's only so many open world,

[01:16:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Ubisoft, Star Wars Outlaws, Assassin's Creed,

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Mirage, Odyssey, whatever case may be.

[01:16:29] [SPEAKER_03]: There's only so many of those that we can play

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_03]: before we're just absolutely nauseous

[01:16:33] [SPEAKER_03]: of the open world bloat.

[01:16:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think that if any of the big three

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_03]: publishers wanted to have a specific

[01:16:42] [SPEAKER_03]: like niche or specific couple of studios

[01:16:44] [SPEAKER_03]: within their ecosystem, focus on putting out

[01:16:47] [SPEAKER_03]: smaller games that are digestible more consistently,

[01:16:50] [SPEAKER_03]: that's something that I would want.

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's something that would serve

[01:16:52] [SPEAKER_03]: to help get kids away from Roblox in Minecraft

[01:16:56] [SPEAKER_03]: in Fortnite for once in their lives.

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Actually pick up a game that's

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_03]: like a blinks the minesweeper

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_03]: or something just kind of spitballing obviously

[01:17:06] [SPEAKER_03]: like an ape escape.

[01:17:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's something that I would want.

[01:17:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But let's go ahead and get into the meat

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_03]: of this discussion and talk about

[01:17:15] [SPEAKER_03]: our favorite games of this generation.

[01:17:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And what we're gonna do is we're gonna treat it

[01:17:18] [SPEAKER_03]: very similar to what you play

[01:17:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and what you have been playing.

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_03]: So each of us are gonna take turns

[01:17:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and talk about all of the games that we love,

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_03]: that we think are like some of the greatest

[01:17:27] [SPEAKER_03]: of this generation and both of you feel

[01:17:29] [SPEAKER_03]: for your chime in whenever we're talking

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_03]: about something but Chris, go ahead and take us away.

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_03]: What are your favorite games

[01:17:36] [SPEAKER_03]: from the Generation V consoles?

[01:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, if you ask me this in two months

[01:17:41] [SPEAKER_00]: it's gonna be different.

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to hear.

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's hard to get a top five.

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm gonna give you the top five games

[01:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that I was like, oh yeah, those are my top five today.

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But my top five Super Mario 64,

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_00]: X-Men versus Street Fighter for the Sega Saturn,

[01:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Shining Force III, which is a three part game.

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So I have to include all three in that one.

[01:18:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And Castlevania, Symphony of the Nights

[01:18:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and Metal Gear Solid.

[01:18:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Nice.

[01:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I think those, if I'm gonna go back

[01:18:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm gonna pick five games just right now,

[01:18:11] [SPEAKER_00]: just an eclectic group of games

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_00]: that kind of represents all my tastes

[01:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: wrapped up into one little list, that's my top five.

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_00]: That's incredible.

[01:18:19] [SPEAKER_02]: All good games on that list too.

[01:18:20] [SPEAKER_02]: But I will say one of my blind spots

[01:18:22] [SPEAKER_02]: for sure is Shining Force.

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So I did wanna do like a quick little sneak peek

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: to see I'm like, what is Shining Force?

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: What was I missing on?

[01:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: This game looks great.

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It still looks like it holds up.

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_03]: It's Fire Emblem in space.

[01:18:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Jala and I, Jala Prun has joined me

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_03]: for the Fire Emblem Fates conversation

[01:18:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and she has been doing nothing

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_03]: but evangelizing Shining Force III to me

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and I'm like, I have to download an emulator.

[01:18:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I have to figure out how to play this game

[01:18:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and tell them, no if you're listening to me,

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_03]: no you're not.

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Sega, if you're listening to me.

[01:18:49] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't know.

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know who's listening.

[01:18:51] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, Chris, what is Shining Force III all about?

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_03]: What's your perspective on that one?

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So Shining Force III is a tactical RPG.

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you've played Final Fantasy Tactics or Fire Emblem,

[01:19:01] [SPEAKER_00]: it's very much in that vein

[01:19:03] [SPEAKER_00]: where it has an isometric 3D perspective.

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_00]: All the characters are sprites

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: but essentially you're doing the same thing

[01:19:08] [SPEAKER_00]: that you'd be doing any of those games.

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Taking your characters, moving them around a map,

[01:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: a grid based map, blinding them up to another character

[01:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and selecting to attack them.

[01:19:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Defeat all the enemies usually in order

[01:19:18] [SPEAKER_00]: to advance to the plot, stuff like that.

[01:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But the thing about Shining Force III,

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: what makes it exceptionally cool

[01:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: in addition to having awesome combat,

[01:19:27] [SPEAKER_00]: in addition to having a class based promotion system

[01:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that you only do once, but how you do it is all up to you.

[01:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: All these things that you can do there

[01:19:36] [SPEAKER_00]: is that there are three scenarios on there,

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: two of which were only released in Japan

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_00]: just because the Saturn was dying here in the United States

[01:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: but we did get the first one.

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And decisions you make in the first game

[01:19:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and the second game

[01:19:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and can all impact the characters you pick up

[01:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: in the second and third games.

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you save a character,

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: like there's a battle, like the second or third battle

[01:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: in the first game, if you save a character,

[01:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: they will join your party.

[01:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you don't save them, another character

[01:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: will join your party in either the second or the third game.

[01:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Or if you decide to talk to a certain character

[01:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and make certain event decisions in the second game,

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: then and in conjunction with decisions

[01:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: that you make in the first game

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_00]: can impact what kind of character classes

[01:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: or what kind of items or who's joining you

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_00]: in your party in the third game.

[01:20:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's actually kind of like a very basic version

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: of what you'd be getting later in Mass Effect.

[01:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And I say basic, I mean like bare bones basic,

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: not like, oh, like you're getting

[01:20:38] [SPEAKER_00]: all these character attributes

[01:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: but there are things like that

[01:20:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and you have three different main characters

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: that you named at the beginning of the first game.

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, why am I naming these characters

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_00]: especially in the North American version

[01:20:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that doesn't have any impact?

[01:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: But all that information carries over

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: to the very end of the game.

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And it just makes for a phenomenal overall package

[01:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: which is why I love it.

[01:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably my favorite tactical RPG of that generation.

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I like it more than Final Fantasy Tactics.

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris, you're gonna have to let me come down there

[01:21:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and you'll let me play Shining Force 3

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_03]: on your Sega Saturn.

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_03]: No, otherwise I have to get my hands on it

[01:21:10] [SPEAKER_03]: as a TT RPG fan.

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I need to jump in there.

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But I am very curious though,

[01:21:15] [SPEAKER_03]: is X-Men versus Street Fighter

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_03]: the foundation for Marvel versus Capcom?

[01:21:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, buddy.

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes it is.

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I mean, you could either go the arcade route

[01:21:26] [SPEAKER_00]: which is perfectly acceptable.

[01:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But the thing about what I said for the Saturn

[01:21:30] [SPEAKER_00]: is you can get this game for the PlayStation

[01:21:33] [SPEAKER_00]: but it's a complete bastardization

[01:21:36] [SPEAKER_00]: of what it is in the arcade

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_00]: because if you know Marvel versus Capcom

[01:21:40] [SPEAKER_00]: with the thing you do,

[01:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: the best thing about it has the tag element

[01:21:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and you can keep swapping out your characters

[01:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and using them to your advantage

[01:21:46] [SPEAKER_00]: for massive combos, massive damage.

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And in the PlayStation version,

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: there's only certain situations in which you can do that.

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the other, your opponent has to have

[01:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: the same characters you do

[01:21:56] [SPEAKER_00]: because it doesn't have the RAM.

[01:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So in Japan, and exclusive,

[01:22:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and this is like when it got me into importing big time

[01:22:03] [SPEAKER_00]: because importing wasn't that hard.

[01:22:05] [SPEAKER_00]: In Japan they released a version of a game

[01:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: that came with a four megabyte RAM card

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that you put into the back of the system.

[01:22:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And that allows you to play

[01:22:12] [SPEAKER_00]: what essentially is an arcade perfect version

[01:22:15] [SPEAKER_00]: of the game at home.

[01:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, that's awesome.

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_03]: That's so cool.

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_03]: That's so neat.

[01:22:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I've never seen this game.

[01:22:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I've never seen it played.

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, I look up the cover art for it

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_03]: and I'm just like, oh my gosh.

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And obviously seeing the visuals of the game itself.

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It just, it looks.

[01:22:31] [SPEAKER_03]: It's amazing. Perfect.

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_03]: It looks perfect.

[01:22:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And I can't, and obviously,

[01:22:34] [SPEAKER_03]: is this included in what Capcom just did

[01:22:37] [SPEAKER_03]: when they did that?

[01:22:39] [SPEAKER_03]: They have like this like,

[01:22:40] [SPEAKER_03]: it was like a release that they like put out

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_03]: that included Marvel versus Capcom too,

[01:22:45] [SPEAKER_03]: but they put it a bunch of other like retro arcade

[01:22:47] [SPEAKER_03]: beat them up titles.

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if this was part of that

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_03]: or back packaged in that as well.

[01:22:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, they're doing that.

[01:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It should be in there, yeah.

[01:22:55] [SPEAKER_03]: They're doing that soon.

[01:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not out currently.

[01:22:56] [SPEAKER_02]: It's gonna be a lot of fighting.

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_02]: The one we played before was

[01:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of like Sega beat them ups.

[01:23:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And then they're having a similar thing come out soon

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that includes Marvel Street Fighter,

[01:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: sorry, Marvel versus Capcom too,

[01:23:08] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's gonna be a lot of the fighting games.

[01:23:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So I believe this is gonna be in here.

[01:23:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I think X-Men Children of Adam is gonna be on there too,

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_02]: which I never had a chance to play.

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So that should be really fun.

[01:23:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if they're putting the sequel on here.

[01:23:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm guessing they are Marvel Super Heroes versus Capcom.

[01:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I assume they would too, but.

[01:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I think they are like you're getting all the versus games

[01:23:24] [SPEAKER_00]: up until Marvel versus Capcom too.

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're getting X-Men versus Street Fighter,

[01:23:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Marvel versus Street Fighter,

[01:23:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Marvel versus Capcom and Marvel versus Capcom too.

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Plus the Punisher.

[01:23:33] [SPEAKER_00]: That's so exciting.

[01:23:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And X-Men Children of the Adam.

[01:23:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:23:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's gonna be on everything

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_03]: like PS5, Xbox series, whatever the case may be.

[01:23:39] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[01:23:39] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[01:23:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Nintendo?

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually no PS4 and Nintendo Switch.

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Very interesting.

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh no.

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_03]: That's, wow.

[01:23:49] [SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of insane.

[01:23:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah.

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris, can I ask you a little bit about Castlevania,

[01:23:53] [SPEAKER_03]: something of the night?

[01:23:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I know what Castlevania is looking and feel like,

[01:23:57] [SPEAKER_03]: but what makes this title the standout from any

[01:24:00] [SPEAKER_03]: of the other ones that you've experienced so far?

[01:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's difficult to call it a standout.

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I just think it's a phenomenal game first and foremost.

[01:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think Aria of Sorrow is probably a little bit better

[01:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of the Metroidvania,

[01:24:16] [SPEAKER_00]: but this is essentially the game that established

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: or coined the name Metroidvania.

[01:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you had Metroid before this.

[01:24:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You had Super Metroid before this.

[01:24:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's, the way it approaches it is

[01:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: it does take a couple of the Castlevania mentality,

[01:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: like putting it in Gothic Castle, stuff like that.

[01:24:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But the other thing is that it's not as

[01:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not as focused on speed running as like a Super Metroid game is.

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And like if you want to find an upgrade,

[01:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not about blowing up every single wall

[01:24:49] [SPEAKER_00]: until you find like a hidden missile piece.

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: There's there's more of a streamlined approach to it.

[01:24:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So the great thing about Castlevania

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Symphony of the Night in particular is that it does pay homage

[01:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: to its previous entries because it is taking a character

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_00]: from Castlevania three and it's making it the main protagonist.

[01:25:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[01:25:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're just going around a castle,

[01:25:09] [SPEAKER_00]: like doing what you can at your convenience and at your leisure

[01:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and finding all sorts of new weapons that all do different things

[01:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and the difference and new spells that you're casting

[01:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: in order to take advantage of it.

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: There's hidden kind of Easter eggs that you do.

[01:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you put

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a certain rod that you can equip.

[01:25:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think it's the shield rod, it might be,

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: but like it has like Gradius defense stars

[01:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: that you can put out there like options.

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So it makes callbacks to other Konami properties.

[01:25:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So again, it's one of those things that as we were discussing

[01:25:40] [SPEAKER_00]: feels very much like a video game, even that when you're playing it,

[01:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: it feels more like something

[01:25:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that's that's more developed for a certain niche or mainstream

[01:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: but still has that weirdness in it that is hidden in it.

[01:25:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just some goofy stuff if you're really digging for it.

[01:25:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's that's what makes that game incredible,

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_00]: especially with the great controls, just overall great map layout,

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: at least for the first half of the game.

[01:26:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It's and a surprise twist that took a lot of people by,

[01:26:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, by shock like they they didn't know that was going to happen

[01:26:12] [SPEAKER_00]: midway through the game.

[01:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, everyone knows about the upside down castle now.

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's something that can be mentioned.

[01:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost to the point now you get there

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and so almost disappointing like, damn, I thought I was done with the game.

[01:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: But back then it was completely different.

[01:26:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, I have an entire

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I have an entire second part of the game to get through.

[01:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. So yeah, that a lot of good things about Symphony of the Night.

[01:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Have you not have you not played it?

[01:26:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I have not I have not played any of the classic 2D

[01:26:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Castlevania games actually.

[01:26:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's a huge, huge blind spot in my backlog for sure.

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're fun.

[01:26:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, there's there's yeah, there's there's always a few out there.

[01:26:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But but William, I want to hear what your top five is

[01:26:49] [SPEAKER_03]: and why none of these include Final Fantasy 7.

[01:26:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, none include Final Fantasy 7 because I was too young when the game came out.

[01:26:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So I really didn't get into it.

[01:26:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's not a lot.

[01:26:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Talk about a couple of them here, but just reiterate, got

[01:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: per app of the rapper, crash team racing, super smash bros,

[01:27:06] [SPEAKER_02]: the House of the Dead and Ape Escape.

[01:27:09] [SPEAKER_03]: What is House of the Dead?

[01:27:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I've never heard of this before.

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, this might be cheating a little bit.

[01:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I know I already kind of got slapped on the hand for initially putting in

[01:27:17] [SPEAKER_02]: listeners I had originally in here,

[01:27:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Pokemon Silver slash Crystal, but we we decreed that handhelds do not

[01:27:24] [SPEAKER_02]: count as Gen 5 consoles.

[01:27:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's right.

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I slammed my gavel down.

[01:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, House of the Dead.

[01:27:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a light gun game.

[01:27:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would say my main or really like 90 percent of my game play

[01:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: in time with it came from the arcade.

[01:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you want to be like, oh, it doesn't really count

[01:27:40] [SPEAKER_02]: because it's an arcade.

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Then, you know, this is another one.

[01:27:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is generation out on the Saturn.

[01:27:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, so yeah, I know there was a Saturday iteration.

[01:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I did play it because I know at one time

[01:27:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I think one of my cousins maybe wasn't the Saturn,

[01:27:53] [SPEAKER_02]: though maybe in a later game.

[01:27:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But either way, they had like a light gun peripheral at home,

[01:27:56] [SPEAKER_02]: which I thought was nutty.

[01:27:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I had never seen that before.

[01:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: That's another thing.

[01:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's bring back peripherals.

[01:28:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I know we talked about the before,

[01:28:02] [SPEAKER_02]: but things I want in this upcoming generation.

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I need more peripherals and I need more add-ons to my console

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: that's not just shoving an SD card in the back.

[01:28:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I want to throw on something really weird and goofy on top of my console.

[01:28:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, especially like this, especially like a so fun.

[01:28:17] [SPEAKER_03]: More gun controllers, definitely gun controllers.

[01:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: What was the one that was like it was

[01:28:21] [SPEAKER_03]: it was like a Gundam game that came out on the 360

[01:28:25] [SPEAKER_03]: that had this entire whole like mech system?

[01:28:28] [SPEAKER_03]: It was awesome. Yeah. What is that game called?

[01:28:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't mech warriors.

[01:28:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Are you talking about Steel Battalion?

[01:28:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Steel Battalion.

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Controller that thing is insanity.

[01:28:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That was for Xbox and it was made by Capcom.

[01:28:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So nutty.

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It had like the full on button.

[01:28:42] [SPEAKER_02]: You had to flip all the switches to get the thing running

[01:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and then there was the eject button that you would have to hit.

[01:28:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, you know, your character would be like lost forever.

[01:28:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You had to restart.

[01:28:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So cool. Yeah.

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But as far as the overall list here, the House of the Dead.

[01:28:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So fun light gun game you're going in as two.

[01:28:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I think there were detectives

[01:28:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're shooting your way through a house full of zombies.

[01:29:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was fun.

[01:29:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Once again, another coin eater because, you know,

[01:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: you got zombies throwing axes at you and, you know,

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_02]: hanging from rafters and swiping at you randomly to try to get you

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: to put in more money so you can get to the end.

[01:29:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But I just love games like this.

[01:29:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I've spent a lot of time in arcades doing like this kind of

[01:29:19] [SPEAKER_02]: is a place called Fun Station back in Tallahassee.

[01:29:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was like a arcade pizza place.

[01:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It was essentially adult Chuck E. Cheese, you know,

[01:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd done the Chuck E. Cheese thing.

[01:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I played what was it?

[01:29:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Like Avengers, you know, versus whoever.

[01:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, you walk around as Captain America

[01:29:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and visioning them and doing the beat them up.

[01:29:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, I'm an adult now.

[01:29:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go play light gun games.

[01:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So I had that have my time crisis.

[01:29:44] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a bunch of really fun like shooters and stuff like that.

[01:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you get into your more.

[01:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I think they had a gauntlet.

[01:29:52] [SPEAKER_02]: If I'm not mistaken, was another option that was there.

[01:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Fun Station.

[01:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So lots of fun arcade games there.

[01:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But House of the Dead was one I kept coming back to.

[01:30:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Specifically, I loved the little sound effects

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_02]: whenever you like, you need to reload your gun,

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, like you're doing a light gun.

[01:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to shoot off screen to reload

[01:30:07] [SPEAKER_02]: so that you can get back to shooting.

[01:30:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And every time you needed to reload the game,

[01:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: reload, reload, reload.

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, ah, like you're in the middle of doing it.

[01:30:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it sounds so cool.

[01:30:16] [SPEAKER_02]: That voice is stuck in my head.

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It's wrapped inside me waiting to get out

[01:30:21] [SPEAKER_02]: every time I bring the game up.

[01:30:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but now I loved it.

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Something that I am curious about too is like, why

[01:30:28] [SPEAKER_03]: CTR versus Mario Kart 64?

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Talked about a little bit earlier.

[01:30:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So with CTR as my PlayStation is what I had

[01:30:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and I didn't really have a 64.

[01:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I played a little bit of Friends yet.

[01:30:38] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, I played a little bit of Friends House,

[01:30:39] [SPEAKER_02]: but that was my big thing for Crash Team Racing.

[01:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the time with my mom and my dad

[01:30:44] [SPEAKER_02]: like before playing with it, somehow just convincing them,

[01:30:48] [SPEAKER_02]: tricking them, whatever I did.

[01:30:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even recall what kind of witchcraft I did

[01:30:51] [SPEAKER_02]: to have them play a game with me

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_02]: like before going into school or something.

[01:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But no, that's just one of those memories

[01:30:56] [SPEAKER_02]: like I hold on to as far as with gaming is, you know,

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_02]: obviously I'm sure they were not having a good time,

[01:31:02] [SPEAKER_02]: but they took the time out of there their morning,

[01:31:04] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, their day to do something that are like,

[01:31:06] [SPEAKER_02]: well, this means something to him.

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So let's let him beat us in a game a little bit.

[01:31:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so that's always fun.

[01:31:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, no matter what, I'm going to hold this near and dear.

[01:31:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I have not played the newer version yet.

[01:31:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to get into it.

[01:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to at least check it out a little bit.

[01:31:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't recall if it's on Game Pass or not.

[01:31:22] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I know would like the remastered version.

[01:31:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I do want to check it out though,

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: because I like Crash Team Racing.

[01:31:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I enjoyed like the little story they had to you kind of ride around

[01:31:31] [SPEAKER_02]: in the overworld going through portals.

[01:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It was almost it was very Mario 64.

[01:31:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Where it's like you hop into little portals to then go

[01:31:39] [SPEAKER_02]: into the tracks and race people.

[01:31:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, you may have a boss that you're trying to beat during the race.

[01:31:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was very fun.

[01:31:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Gotcha. Have you played Diddy Kong Racing?

[01:31:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I want to say I have, but I honestly

[01:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't be able to talk to you about it.

[01:31:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But I feel like I have played it at one point.

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's right if you really like CTR, that would be right up your alley

[01:32:01] [SPEAKER_00]: because there's a lot of similar gameplay elements there.

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Good.

[01:32:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you know is it available on any like newer consoles or would I have to go back

[01:32:08] [SPEAKER_02]: to the yesteryear console to check it out?

[01:32:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know because it's a rare game.

[01:32:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Gotcha.

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So if it's going to be available, it'll be available on NSO.

[01:32:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it is.

[01:32:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And because it has a bunch of they has Diddy Kong in it, obviously,

[01:32:24] [SPEAKER_00]: you're not probably going to find it on.

[01:32:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was like, it's so weird with that change over, right?

[01:32:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like Microsoft technically owns Rare, but there are so many

[01:32:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Nintendo property games made by Rare.

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just like, who owns it right now?

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. It's very, very weird, very gray.

[01:32:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I will say, obviously, I have a I in my opinion, what is a very solid,

[01:32:43] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, top five.

[01:32:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Some of this is a little bit, you know, retconned into, you know,

[01:32:49] [SPEAKER_03]: my experience of what I had back there, obviously with my new adult knowledge

[01:32:52] [SPEAKER_03]: of the games. But, you know, if we're talking about this generation,

[01:32:54] [SPEAKER_03]: obviously, you know, Tony Hawk Pro Skater, one of the best,

[01:32:57] [SPEAKER_03]: obviously the spawned entire generation of skating games.

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It was like probably the game that spawned, like, you know, I would say

[01:33:05] [SPEAKER_03]: maybe not this could be arguable.

[01:33:07] [SPEAKER_03]: But in my opinion, it's probably one of the games that popularized

[01:33:10] [SPEAKER_03]: arcade sports games beyond just like the 2D football,

[01:33:15] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, hockey simulators that you would have on like the NES.

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And obviously, you know, the Tony Hawk and, you know, skateboarding

[01:33:21] [SPEAKER_03]: and how important skateboarding was to like the essence of coolness

[01:33:25] [SPEAKER_03]: in the 90s, right? Like that was like they were synonymous.

[01:33:28] [SPEAKER_03]: They went hand in hand with each other.

[01:33:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But like Tony Hawk Pro Skater, great.

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_03]: The Ocarina of Time.

[01:33:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel like I feel like I would not be doing my due diligence

[01:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: talking about this generation without talking about like a generational

[01:33:40] [SPEAKER_03]: like leap game, probably the game that spawned, you know, the hero journeys

[01:33:44] [SPEAKER_03]: and, you know, spawn the idea for open worlds for even generations

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_03]: going through to the PS5 and Series X today.

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Like Ocarina of Time is so important,

[01:33:52] [SPEAKER_03]: not only just the Zelda franchise, but just to like open world games as a whole.

[01:33:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's obviously incredibly great.

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And then Star Fox 64 disappointed you didn't put in the much better

[01:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Majora's Mask over Ocarina of Time.

[01:34:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, Ocarina was first and I'm not so.

[01:34:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Wasn't I'm the Majora's Mask isn't good.

[01:34:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It came out a few years later and I did play it.

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I never beat Majora's Mask, but I did beat Ocarina.

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So I guess that's kind of like the difference there.

[01:34:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Also time like I realized that like if I were to play today,

[01:34:23] [SPEAKER_03]: the whole like the moon coming down to the Earth thing

[01:34:26] [SPEAKER_03]: isn't what it probably be as much of an issue.

[01:34:28] [SPEAKER_03]: But like time always stresses me out when it's like when they put you on a timer

[01:34:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and they're like, you have to finish this before it happens.

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_03]: This is one of the reasons why I never got into Pikmin either.

[01:34:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't give this and I was like, no, I'm not doing that.

[01:34:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I have decision paralysis and I'm not doing the right things.

[01:34:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't just let art flow.

[01:34:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But again, you know, like also Tony Hawk instead of Tony Hawk to

[01:34:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I see Tony Hawk to was my game.

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_03]: It was my game.

[01:34:51] [SPEAKER_03]: But I just assumed that Tony Hawk would be the one that I need to put

[01:34:54] [SPEAKER_03]: on was Tony Hawk to not PS2 or it was PS1 game.

[01:34:59] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, OK, all right.

[01:35:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, but I remember I think I had the blue cartridge for Pro Skater 2.

[01:35:05] [SPEAKER_03]: That was like, oh, and 64 on the N64.

[01:35:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that was the one that I had like that.

[01:35:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I have most touch pages with obviously, you know, the that that famous level

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_03]: where you jump in, I think it was like the warehouse you jump in

[01:35:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and there's that half pipe with a thing and then you pick up the skate,

[01:35:19] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, letters everywhere.

[01:35:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh God, it was so good.

[01:35:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But then Star Fox 64, obviously at this point in my life,

[01:35:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I was still convinced I was going to be a fighter pilot.

[01:35:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So having my fighter pilot simulator with my frog and, you know,

[01:35:32] [SPEAKER_03]: bunny friends and stuff like that is great.

[01:35:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And also 60 Star Fox 64 is just a really like solid game.

[01:35:38] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just an overall solid game in terms of like, you know, both

[01:35:40] [SPEAKER_03]: both gameplay mechanics as well as just like the fun, goofy writing

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_03]: that's in it. You go back and be like, Fox, no.

[01:35:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever you crash in there.

[01:35:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, something that I do have to call out, which is like incredibly

[01:35:55] [SPEAKER_03]: interesting and important in terms of a first person shooter.

[01:35:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Will had mentioned Gold and I.

[01:36:00] [SPEAKER_03]: My first person shooter of this generation was Perfect Dark.

[01:36:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I have such vivid memories of playing the multiplayer on four players

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_03]: split screens of Perfect Dark, whether it's at my cousin's house

[01:36:10] [SPEAKER_03]: or at a friend's house.

[01:36:11] [SPEAKER_03]: This is another one of those games similar to Super Smash Bros.

[01:36:14] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, be like, hey, man, grab your controller and come over to my

[01:36:16] [SPEAKER_03]: place and we're playing Perfect Dark tonight.

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Mom's got pizza rolls in the oven and we got Mountain Dew at the house.

[01:36:21] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a great night.

[01:36:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like Perfect Dark was definitely in that generation.

[01:36:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Now it's so hyped for the I think it was like the Xbox 360

[01:36:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Perfect Dark that came out.

[01:36:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Perfect Dark 2, that was just such a disappointment.

[01:36:37] [SPEAKER_03]: That was kind of coming off the nostalgia of like what Joanne

[01:36:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and Dark was doing that game.

[01:36:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But kind of getting to a little bit more deep cuts here.

[01:36:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, I have to call out.

[01:36:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I was doing my due diligence talking with Rick about this, you know,

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_03]: and I have to do my due diligence of calling out the best JRPG of all time.

[01:36:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Xenogears, that is a claim.

[01:36:55] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, obviously, Monolith's off.

[01:36:57] [SPEAKER_03]: To Tetsuya Takahashi, you know, his wife, Kari Tanaka,

[01:37:01] [SPEAKER_03]: or as you might know her, Sorya Saga.

[01:37:03] [SPEAKER_03]: This game was originally pitched to be Final Fantasy Seven.

[01:37:07] [SPEAKER_03]: They let it spin off as its own project.

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_03]: It's got the goat Yasunori Mitsuda coming in here to compose.

[01:37:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And it also has a variant of the fantastic soundtrack.

[01:37:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a fantastic soundtrack and it has a variant of the ATB system

[01:37:19] [SPEAKER_03]: that you find in titles like Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy, you know, series.

[01:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: But like we, you know, Chris, you and I have talked ad nauseam about Xeno Saga

[01:37:30] [SPEAKER_03]: that is built on the success of Xenogears.

[01:37:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And we got to talk about how important this title is because it's like

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_03]: being able to like, you know, going into things like Union Union psychology

[01:37:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and like other different spiritual, like Christian,

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_03]: proto-Christianity, like deep cuts that they were writing into the story.

[01:37:50] [SPEAKER_03]: This is like one of the games where people like want to start making arguments

[01:37:53] [SPEAKER_03]: about whether or not video game is art.

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_03]: If you look at stuff like this, like, of course it is, of course it is.

[01:37:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Like you can't look at games like Xenogears and not say that, you know,

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_03]: it's one of the best JRPGs of all time. Right? Am I right?

[01:38:06] [SPEAKER_03]: What do you think, Chris?

[01:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as long as you as long as you think you're right, that's all that matters.

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Feel it in your heart.

[01:38:14] [SPEAKER_03]: No, yeah. Yeah.

[01:38:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm kidding. Of course, I just wanted to get under his skin

[01:38:19] [SPEAKER_03]: because I know that Rick said that Chris, you know, famously hates that game.

[01:38:23] [SPEAKER_03]: What why do you hate Xenogears, Chris?

[01:38:29] [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, I think the gameplay is just kind of meh.

[01:38:33] [SPEAKER_00]: OK. It's I mean, there's there's cool things about it.

[01:38:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But one of the reasons I had to stop playing it for myself was

[01:38:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I got softlocked because I didn't buy I didn't have enough cash

[01:38:45] [SPEAKER_00]: to buy the proper equipment for my gear. Oh, well.

[01:38:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, when you get to a gear, it's like cool.

[01:38:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But I couldn't go back either.

[01:38:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I could I could only move forward.

[01:38:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I get you can't like heal a gear like you heal yourself.

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_00]: There is just all these problems with it.

[01:39:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And in terms of the writing,

[01:39:02] [SPEAKER_00]: it sure it might be good.

[01:39:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But the entire second disc is just nothing but writing.

[01:39:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. So it kind of gets to a point where it's like.

[01:39:11] [SPEAKER_00]: My feelings on Xenogears and I know that this is

[01:39:15] [SPEAKER_00]: this isn't a unique feeling, but I know that people who disagree

[01:39:17] [SPEAKER_00]: with me very much disagree with me on this is that

[01:39:21] [SPEAKER_00]: it feels like Xenogears is held up as an example of why games are art

[01:39:25] [SPEAKER_00]: because gamers during this time, especially if you were a teenager,

[01:39:28] [SPEAKER_00]: we're desperately struggling to legitimize video games as something

[01:39:32] [SPEAKER_00]: as something other than something for kids.

[01:39:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. So when people are like, look at Xenogears,

[01:39:39] [SPEAKER_00]: look at Xenogears, look at all the edgy, dark themes that has

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_00]: like mature ideas here.

[01:39:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Look at the cross swinging and and like the the the dark animation.

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't this mature? It's mature.

[01:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: This is finally art now. This is art now.

[01:39:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Look at it. Look at it.

[01:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like.

[01:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost there.

[01:39:57] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of ideas, but I can put a lot of ideas on paper

[01:40:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and and say it's something that doesn't necessarily mean it's

[01:40:04] [SPEAKER_00]: the best put together.

[01:40:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'm not saying it's poorly put together,

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think that people reach too much to Xenogears for that

[01:40:12] [SPEAKER_00]: prove games are art, whereas I mean,

[01:40:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I know we're kind of going into a tangent here, but whatever.

[01:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: The whole entire I think games as our argument is much better preserved

[01:40:22] [SPEAKER_00]: for a game or what defined games as arts

[01:40:26] [SPEAKER_00]: for the majority of the public to include people that had their doubts.

[01:40:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what shadow of the class is right.

[01:40:32] [SPEAKER_00]: A hundred percent.

[01:40:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good one.

[01:40:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's that's the that is kind of like the pinnacle of

[01:40:36] [SPEAKER_03]: what it means to, you know, encapsulate all the experiences

[01:40:40] [SPEAKER_03]: of just being a mechanically sound game.

[01:40:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It also a very like emotionally well written, well thought out experience.

[01:40:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And I totally get what you're saying here in terms of,

[01:40:48] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, how Xenogears probably faces some of its adversity.

[01:40:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I wouldn't be the Capcom stand, the Resident Evil

[01:40:57] [SPEAKER_03]: fanboy if I weren't to jump in and talk about how infamous Resident Evil

[01:41:01] [SPEAKER_03]: 2 is and how incredible that was to the franchise.

[01:41:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Had either of you, I know, Will, you didn't have N64.

[01:41:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But if I'm not mistaken, this did come out on the PlayStation as well.

[01:41:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But I still haven't played the original.

[01:41:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You didn't play any of the original Aries until like four.

[01:41:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, until four. Yeah.

[01:41:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but already two came out of the PlayStation first.

[01:41:23] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, it came out on the PlayStation.

[01:41:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And then later on came out on the PlayStation 4.

[01:41:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Is there is there an argument as to what is the better version of that game

[01:41:31] [SPEAKER_03]: PlayStation versus Nintendo?

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_00]: As you know, the I think the general consensus

[01:41:39] [SPEAKER_00]: is that the best version of that game is the PlayStation

[01:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: just because all the videos are uncompressed. Oh, yeah.

[01:41:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But there are some quality of life improvements they made in the N64

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_00]: version, which is I think I think you can turn off tank controls.

[01:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow. Your character will just move in the direction

[01:41:54] [SPEAKER_00]: that you're moving your analog stick.

[01:41:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you can do that in that version.

[01:41:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Aside from that as well, it's an incredible technical marvel

[01:42:03] [SPEAKER_00]: that they got that entire game onto that cartridge.

[01:42:06] [SPEAKER_00]: It's insane they did that. Yeah.

[01:42:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Which I think I mean, you go into the history of already two

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think it stated that they could have fit the entire game on one disk,

[01:42:16] [SPEAKER_00]: but they put it on two disks to make it feel more unique for each character.

[01:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow. OK.

[01:42:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not it's not like a gig and a half worth of data.

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. But still, I mean, if you're talking about six hundred

[01:42:26] [SPEAKER_00]: fifty megabytes of data that's compressed enough to fit on a cartridge

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and then graphically still look better, that that is impressive as hell.

[01:42:34] [SPEAKER_00]: 100 percent. Yeah.

[01:42:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And just like the ideas that are posed in this game, obviously,

[01:42:38] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, I feel like Capcom, you know, with what they were putting out at that time

[01:42:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and you know, developing this game and the writing that was put into it

[01:42:47] [SPEAKER_03]: or just like the experience in general, I don't I feel like they were masters

[01:42:49] [SPEAKER_03]: of their craft like we're talking about like this is not really the infancy of gaming,

[01:42:54] [SPEAKER_03]: but like this is when gaming first started to walk before it was running

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_03]: in a lot of the modern generations, but being able to put in games

[01:43:02] [SPEAKER_03]: like the first Resident Evil and then, you know, obviously coming up with Resident Evil 2

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and all the interesting things that were going on with the development, you know,

[01:43:10] [SPEAKER_03]: with all the key creators at that time.

[01:43:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just it is a fascinating experience.

[01:43:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's fascinating to have that like groundwork to see, you know,

[01:43:18] [SPEAKER_03]: what it became later on when you get into like three and four

[01:43:21] [SPEAKER_03]: and obviously the modern the modern iterations of these games today.

[01:43:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, those are those are, you know,

[01:43:29] [SPEAKER_03]: games that we have for our top five of this generation.

[01:43:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Gentlemen, was there anything any other questions or anything that you wanted

[01:43:34] [SPEAKER_03]: to kind of throw out the wall here as what was great or honorable mentions in that regard?

[01:43:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, God, honorable mention.

[01:43:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, we'd be your own saying we look I had a trim back so much.

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Trim back so much.

[01:43:46] [SPEAKER_03]: We had to trim back so much.

[01:43:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I wanted to I did last thing, though,

[01:43:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I did want to ask you about if you could explain to the audience

[01:43:54] [SPEAKER_03]: because I feel like not many people know what the heck is per app of the rapper.

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought you never asked.

[01:44:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I want you to picture this.

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, you wake up and you're a dog who loves to rep.

[01:44:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You go down to your local dojo

[01:44:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and there is a humanoid onion that decides he's going to teach you karate.

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But also y'all are going to have a rap battle as he does so.

[01:44:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's like the first level.

[01:44:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God.

[01:44:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's so good.

[01:44:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Punch it's all in the mind.

[01:44:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my God, that's that is insane.

[01:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's so fun.

[01:44:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And the cool thing about it too is it's,

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, obviously it's not just like a guitar hero,

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's in that same vein of like, you know,

[01:44:40] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of musically inclined game where you're tapping along to the words

[01:44:44] [SPEAKER_02]: with the button presses.

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like the sensei, for example, and you have sensei go like punch, punch,

[01:44:50] [SPEAKER_02]: kick, kick.

[01:44:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you have to sit there and match with like the square triangle

[01:44:53] [SPEAKER_02]: as it's like scrolling past you on the screen.

[01:44:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like punch, punch, kick, kick.

[01:44:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, you try to stay on beat and you sound just like him.

[01:45:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Or if you were a little bit off and you'd be like, punch, kick,

[01:45:03] [SPEAKER_02]: kick, like, you know, it sounds like all crappy and you got people

[01:45:06] [SPEAKER_02]: in the background hyping you up or not.

[01:45:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's like these little kind of flimsy 2D things, but it's like they're 2D,

[01:45:11] [SPEAKER_02]: but they're really 3D because when they bend over, they look like pieces of paper.

[01:45:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's so goofy.

[01:45:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what I mentioned earlier with like the goofiness.

[01:45:19] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to get into it later when we do our next time with the generations.

[01:45:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm probably going to talk about it for like 30 minutes.

[01:45:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But Space Channel 5 is right up there with that same kind of like,

[01:45:29] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, yeah, you're sitting there playing this like musical game with the characters,

[01:45:32] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, good ol' Ullala.

[01:45:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to spoil it too much because once again,

[01:45:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to talk about it for like 30 minutes straight when we get into the Dreamcast,

[01:45:39] [SPEAKER_02]: which is I'm so excited when we get into the Dreamcast

[01:45:42] [SPEAKER_02]: because that's like my favorite console that I never owned.

[01:45:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But with the rap of the rapper, yeah, it's just goofy, lovable, fun.

[01:45:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like if you like it, it's funny.

[01:45:52] [SPEAKER_02]: We talked about at the beginning with Tango.

[01:45:54] [SPEAKER_02]: If you liked a high five rush, it's like high five rush.

[01:45:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, high five rush has a lot more of the action and like to make cry ask.

[01:46:00] [SPEAKER_02]: But you're still trying to stay on beat.

[01:46:02] [SPEAKER_02]: You kind of staying with the game and it has these goofy,

[01:46:04] [SPEAKER_02]: lovable characters, which is very much there with Parappa.

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.

[01:46:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It's one of my favorite games of all time.

[01:46:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like they really haven't been able to quite recreate.

[01:46:14] [SPEAKER_02]: They had a spiritual successor a couple of years later,

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I think on the PlayStation 2, like I'm Jamer Lammy.

[01:46:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was called.

[01:46:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it was still on PS1 as well.

[01:46:25] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, nice.

[01:46:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I'm Jamer Lammy.

[01:46:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It was like a spiritual successor.

[01:46:28] [SPEAKER_02]: He's more more drums than rapping.

[01:46:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was still also a really fun game, too.

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But I just still I don't think they ever quite hit that same magic

[01:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: that Parappa had and I'm kind of waiting for something to come

[01:46:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and fill that niche, something to fill that missing hole in my heart

[01:46:42] [SPEAKER_02]: for a game like that.

[01:46:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even accept a remake at this point.

[01:46:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Sony, have you tried?

[01:46:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Have you tried playing Pat upon?

[01:46:49] [SPEAKER_02]: No. And so that is a missing spot for me.

[01:46:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I have not played Pat upon before, but I've seen it

[01:46:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and it does look really fun.

[01:46:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because isn't that what the Nintendo?

[01:46:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Can I get them like a DS or something?

[01:46:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Or what's the PSP?

[01:47:00] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, that's probably why I had a PSP, but I didn't.

[01:47:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't end up getting Pat upon for whatever reason.

[01:47:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. Right.

[01:47:08] [SPEAKER_02]: That is fantastic.

[01:47:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, Chris, thank you both so much

[01:47:13] [SPEAKER_03]: for jumping into this with me, obviously.

[01:47:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Like as he said, if we were to go on and just start

[01:47:17] [SPEAKER_03]: throwing stuff at the wall of honorable mentions of like great.

[01:47:20] [SPEAKER_03]: This is like the library for these generations is massive and expansive.

[01:47:24] [SPEAKER_03]: So I encourage everyone who like has a love for retro titles

[01:47:28] [SPEAKER_03]: or maybe is just scratching the surface and getting into retro.

[01:47:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead and do a little bit of Googling, do a little bit of research

[01:47:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and you know, maybe relive some memories if you are 90s kids like us.

[01:47:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And join us at that point.

[01:47:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Go play Legend of Dragoon.

[01:47:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly. Legend of Dragoon.

[01:47:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Incredible. Incredible. Another another great JRPG.

[01:47:47] [SPEAKER_03]: But that is going to be it for tonight.

[01:47:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to give a big thank you to all our listeners.

[01:47:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, if you enjoyed our content

[01:47:53] [SPEAKER_03]: and you want to support us further,

[01:47:55] [SPEAKER_03]: please feel free to leave us a rating or review on your platform of choice.

[01:47:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You can also find us on Patreon to have some exclusive offerings over there

[01:48:03] [SPEAKER_03]: at patreon.com slash Friday Night Gamecast.

[01:48:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So, Chris, if people wanted to find you

[01:48:09] [SPEAKER_03]: and they wanted to let you know that Kojima is just like

[01:48:13] [SPEAKER_03]: the most conceited ass of the gaming industry,

[01:48:16] [SPEAKER_03]: where can they find you and where can they find retro Hangover podcast?

[01:48:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm not going to disagree with that.

[01:48:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But first and foremost, they can find me over at link.tr.ee slash retro Hangover.

[01:48:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's you'll find myself and Shane.

[01:48:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't mention Shane when talking about the show earlier.

[01:48:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So sorry, Shane, but Shane's my recording partner in crime.

[01:48:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's yeah, because go find us in our show.

[01:48:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Just a little warning, though, if you don't like loud noises,

[01:48:43] [SPEAKER_00]: you might want to turn down your radio for probably the first,

[01:48:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, 30 seconds or so, because I do scream into the microphone.

[01:48:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you can make it past that, you're clear.

[01:48:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, go go find the retro Hangover podcast at link.tr.ee slash retro Hangover.

[01:48:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And thanks for having me on.

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a great time. I loved this discussion.

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_03]: It's been fantastic.

[01:49:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for joining me, joining both of us on the show today.

[01:49:08] [SPEAKER_03]: But will if people want to find you and say they can run it up

[01:49:12] [SPEAKER_03]: with you in Crash Team Racing and just body you at any point in time,

[01:49:16] [SPEAKER_03]: any day, where can they find you on the Internet?

[01:49:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You can find me on the website, formally known as Twitter at realkingzoozotide.

[01:49:25] [SPEAKER_02]: That is R E A L K I N G Z O S O T A I.

[01:49:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And you better bring your own controller because it's about to go down.

[01:49:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Perfect. And with that, everyone, please keep gaming.

[01:49:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Take it easy and we'll see you next Friday night. Deuces.