The State of Final Fantasy feat. Dave (Tales From the Backlog) | A Fine Time Special

[00:00:00] Hey, it's your boy Dre off the top here real quick. So for the most part, we're not going to spoil any of the games we're talking about today, except for one, and that will be Final Fantasy XV. We will be talking story in that one up to and including the ending so we can laugh at it. And it's such an old game that at this point, I really didn't think anyone would mind. But hey, a spoiler is a spoiler. So I thought it'd be cool and mention it here up front. However, again, there will be no spoilers for any of the games.

[00:00:30] Any of the other games in this podcast, okay? Only Final Fantasy XV. And of course, you can always check the timestamps in the description or use the chapter select depending on your device and skip out on that portion of the show if you really don't want to hear that. But with that out of the way, let's start the show.

[00:00:47] Fine Time, Broadcasting Worldwide.

[00:01:08] Hello, party people. Hello, fantasy people. It's your boy Dre. And welcome to our little meeting of the minds, shall we say, about Final Fantasy, our brain trust, if you will. And to supply the brain today, I've asked Dave from Tales from the Backlog to join me. Dave, thank you, finally, for joining me on Fine Time.

[00:01:29] Absolutely. It's great to be here. Good to talk with you, as always. But really happy to, first of all, to come on Fine Time for the first time. And then, yeah, to talk Final Fantasy. You know I'm up for that anytime.

[00:01:41] Thank you for joining me. Yeah, I didn't think of anyone else for this. Okay, let's confess to the people how this started. Because basically, I found out that you hate Final Fantasy XV. I was like, whoa, dude. Okay, that game is not perfect. I give it like a 6.5 out of 10. But there's still like a lot of stuff I like about it, right? And you're like, I fucking hate this game. And it's like, we got to talk about it. And I want to ruin the game for you. I want to tell you what happens after you stop playing, because you'll think it's funny.

[00:02:11] I'm just going to go off of memory, by the way. I didn't even research. I haven't played the game since it came out. I'm just going off a totally what's in my brain here. And if it's wrong, that makes it even funnier.

[00:02:21] Yeah. So anyway, but that was the genesis of it. And I was like, let's just talk about Final Fantasy over the last 10-ish years, you know?

[00:02:30] Yeah, it's weird. I was thinking about that today. I was like, whoa, Final Fantasy XV, we're starting pretty recent. And then I was like, oh, that came out like almost 10 years ago. This is not recent anymore.

[00:02:42] Not at all, man. I remember, shit, I think I played it even a little bit late. I think I played it like very early 2017, because I think I wanted to get out of the way before like Switch and stuff came out.

[00:02:53] So I think I remember doing it then. And even by then, yeah, shit, I even bought the Type 0, Final Fantasy Type 0, and it came with that demo and everything, right?

[00:03:04] I wanted to play Type 0 anyway. I didn't buy it for that. But like, you know, I just, yeah, I'd been hot on that game.

[00:03:10] And then like it came out, I was like, eh, you know, really, really good and bad.

[00:03:14] But we'll get there in a second. We'll get to Final Fantasy XV. I think we should start by establishing what kind of Final Fantasy fans we are, because I think that will be good, like, you know, for the audience, like going into the stuff like our mindset towards this stuff.

[00:03:28] So just tell me your like Final Fantasy history real quick, if you can.

[00:03:32] Sure. Yeah. So my introduction to Final Fantasy was Final Fantasy VI on the Game Boy Advance, which I played in high school.

[00:03:41] I had, surely I had heard of Final Fantasy before that. But like, you know, back when everyone was hot on Final Fantasy VII and VIII, back then on the PlayStation, none of my friends had PlayStations and we're talking about that at the time.

[00:03:56] So, and like, I was born in 88. So I wasn't playing, you know, the NES games or Final Fantasy II when it came out on the Super Nintendo.

[00:04:05] Okay. So the Game Boy Advance was the first Final Fantasy game I played, FF6. I loved it, never beat it back then.

[00:04:15] Then the next one I played was when I moved to college and my roommate had a PS2 and he showed me Final Fantasy X and I fell in love with that one pretty quickly.

[00:04:52] Okay.

[00:04:54] And like some bad Dreamcast ports and stuff. But then that like after a year when we started getting like the real games, it's like, oh shit.

[00:05:01] Yeah. And that was one of them.

[00:05:02] Yeah. And like, you know, FF9 came out in 2000, I want to say.

[00:05:06] And then one year later, this is now what Final Fantasy looks like.

[00:05:11] Like this is all retrospective on my part.

[00:05:12] I played, I played FF7 for the first time in 2013, 2014.

[00:05:19] I played FF9 for the first time in 2020, you know?

[00:05:23] So I'm real late to a lot of these older games in the series.

[00:05:26] I just played four for the first time a couple months ago.

[00:05:31] Okay.

[00:05:31] So like I'm pretty late to a lot of like the classic era of Final Fantasy.

[00:05:36] And then the first one I played on release was 13.

[00:05:40] And then I missed 15 because I wasn't playing games when it came out.

[00:05:44] And then so it was like the only two I've played on release are 13, 16 and 7 Remake and Rebirth.

[00:05:53] Everything else I've been to after the fact.

[00:05:56] But at this point, I have played all of the mainline ones, like the non-MMO ones, except for the NES games and 5.

[00:06:06] Everything else I've played.

[00:06:07] Okay. Yeah.

[00:06:08] I have not.

[00:06:10] Yeah.

[00:06:11] I'm kind of spotty too.

[00:06:12] So basically my history is that like, well, for my age group, you know, I was born in 82.

[00:06:19] So I'm a bit older than you.

[00:06:21] And so I didn't get interested in RPGs until I was a teenager because you know me and everyone on the show knows me.

[00:06:27] I was an arcade head.

[00:06:28] That's what I cared about.

[00:06:29] So, you know, I didn't really care about RPGs until I was like 13.

[00:06:33] The first one I ever really sat down on like played, played was Chrono Trigger.

[00:06:37] And I played that when it came out.

[00:06:38] And that was, you know, I was getting into Dragon Ball.

[00:06:42] It looked familiar.

[00:06:43] I didn't know it was the same artist really.

[00:06:46] But I was like, hey, that looks really familiar about other things that I like.

[00:06:50] Let me let me get this.

[00:06:51] And then, of course, I quickly put two and two together about Akira Toriyama.

[00:06:55] But point is, that's like the first RPG I really sat down.

[00:06:58] I played.

[00:06:58] I dicked around with like Mystic Quest and like a couple other things.

[00:07:03] But that was like my first.

[00:07:05] So suffice it to say, the first Final Fantasy I ever played was actually 7.

[00:07:09] Oh, my God.

[00:07:10] I'm a scrub, right?

[00:07:11] Like that's the first one I ever played.

[00:07:13] Because like I just wasn't interested before then.

[00:07:15] And I thought the game was fine.

[00:07:17] I was blown away by like the technical aspects and like presentation.

[00:07:20] But not so much the characters and stuff.

[00:07:23] But since then, I have played a lot of Final Fantasy games.

[00:07:26] But not all of them.

[00:07:27] I hated 8.

[00:07:29] I love 9.

[00:07:31] I like 10 a lot.

[00:07:32] I need to play that game again.

[00:07:34] I haven't played it since 2001.

[00:07:35] I played 1 and 2 on the Dawn of Souls thing on Game Boy Advance.

[00:07:40] That's how I played those.

[00:07:42] I played Final Fantasy 4 Advance.

[00:07:45] That's the only Super Nintendo one I've ever played.

[00:07:47] I haven't played 5 or 6.

[00:07:50] And yeah, like I played Final Fantasy 3 DS.

[00:07:53] I did not like it.

[00:07:55] I thought it was pretty boring.

[00:07:56] I gave it like 10 hours.

[00:07:57] And I was just like, I can't.

[00:08:01] Straight up hated 12 and 13, as you know.

[00:08:05] And I've liked pretty much everything in this current era that we're going to talk about today.

[00:08:09] To varying degrees.

[00:08:10] I don't think I played.

[00:08:11] I don't hate anything in this current era.

[00:08:13] That's for sure.

[00:08:15] But yeah, I'm pretty up and down with the series.

[00:08:17] But like if I have to say one that I really pinned myself on, it's Final Fantasy 9.

[00:08:21] I think that's like if Grandia 2 is my number one, Final Fantasy 9 is definitely my number two.

[00:08:26] It's definitely deserving.

[00:08:28] And I guess I'll go through like the likes and dislikes for me too, since you did that.

[00:08:33] So I really liked 4, 6, and 10 are my two favorites.

[00:08:38] 9 is my second favorite.

[00:08:41] I really, really don't like 12.

[00:08:44] Like I can't get past like the first five to 10 hours of that game.

[00:08:48] It's so fucking boring.

[00:08:49] I tried so hard.

[00:08:52] I don't like 8, but I didn't play a lot of it.

[00:08:56] Like I have this nagging thing that's like, hey, you should play more of that.

[00:09:00] And then you can, if you're going to be a hater about it, you can be a hater that's backed up with like facts.

[00:09:04] Instead of just like, I got mad at this when I was playing it.

[00:09:09] 13, I played almost all the way through right when it released.

[00:09:13] But like I was so bored, I stopped playing at a certain point.

[00:09:18] And 7, like original 7, I'm pretty lukewarm on.

[00:09:22] Like there's a lot of stuff that I think is great about it.

[00:09:24] But I don't really like the story, like where it goes.

[00:09:28] I think we'll talk about this later when we talk about the remake series.

[00:09:32] But I'm not a huge fan of the original game.

[00:09:35] And then what am I missing here?

[00:09:38] Oh, 15.

[00:09:40] We'll get into that.

[00:09:42] 16.

[00:09:44] 16 was like, it was okay.

[00:09:45] I didn't hate it.

[00:09:47] I also didn't like it.

[00:09:48] It was fine.

[00:09:50] Well, shit.

[00:09:51] I think there's no time like the present.

[00:09:53] It is now time to dive into Final Fantasy 15.

[00:10:09] Okay, Dave, this is what I've been waiting for.

[00:10:12] You unleash on me, okay?

[00:10:13] Tell me everything you hate about Final Fantasy 15.

[00:10:16] Because again, I'll say my piece for the record.

[00:10:18] I think this game is really good up and to a point.

[00:10:23] And then it turns on a dime for me.

[00:10:26] Okay.

[00:10:26] And then it just becomes crap.

[00:10:29] Not total crap.

[00:10:30] Like, not unplayed.

[00:10:31] Like, I did beat the game, obviously.

[00:10:33] And I actually like Platinum Trophy the game.

[00:10:35] So I obviously liked it to some degree.

[00:10:37] I like the gameplay and other stuff.

[00:10:39] But at some point, like two-thirds through the game, it just turns for me.

[00:10:44] But we'll get there in a second.

[00:10:45] Yeah.

[00:10:46] But you tell me why you hate this game.

[00:10:48] I gotta know.

[00:10:50] Well, I was gonna say, if you Platinum Trophy did, I would surely hope that you liked it to some extent.

[00:10:56] It was also like pretty short.

[00:10:58] It took me like less than 40 hours, you know?

[00:11:00] So it wasn't like a huge investment.

[00:11:02] Or this wasn't like trying to Platinum Rebirth or something, right?

[00:11:05] Yeah, I was gonna say, like, there are not many like gamer subgroups that I understand less than the people who Platinum games that they hate playing just to get the Platinum Trophy.

[00:11:16] Oh, no, no, no.

[00:11:17] Another conversation.

[00:11:18] FF 15.

[00:11:19] So 15 is like this, at least it starts as this like Americana-inspired like road trip story, right?

[00:11:29] Mm-hmm.

[00:11:29] And both of those parts were terrible, in my opinion.

[00:11:34] So you open up in this Wild West-inspired zone where I have almost never in my life been offended by a depiction of the United States

[00:11:46] or some kind of US culture thing.

[00:11:51] And just the way that the characters in this place are depicted, it was like, what the f- has anyone watched a Western movie before?

[00:12:00] Like, did you watch?

[00:12:03] I don't know.

[00:12:04] Like, did you watch like one Clint Eastwood movie and be like, well, this is how everyone talks.

[00:12:08] This is what it's like.

[00:12:10] They watched like two seasons of Walker, Texas Ranger or something.

[00:12:13] Yeah.

[00:12:14] I was going to say, like, I was trying to think of like a bad Western movie, but I couldn't think of anything.

[00:12:19] So yeah, Walker, Texas Ranger.

[00:12:20] It's like you roll up on some guy and he talks like the old prospector from the Will Ferrell SNL sketch.

[00:12:27] And he's like, well, you better find yourself a chocobo.

[00:12:31] And I'm like, what the f-

[00:12:34] So the setting, like this is supposed to be like a thing where you're like, you're in this new setting.

[00:12:40] It's like the West and Americana-inspired and you have like diners and stuff like that.

[00:12:46] And all of that was just not good.

[00:12:48] And at the same time I was playing this, I was also playing Earthbound, which I think is a wonderful Americana-inspired setting.

[00:12:56] So it's like that contrast, I think, didn't work for me.

[00:12:59] The other part of it-

[00:13:00] Yeah.

[00:13:01] Oh, let me talk about that real quick, if you don't mind.

[00:13:03] Because like, I totally agree with you on the Earthbound thing.

[00:13:08] That is like perfect, right?

[00:13:09] And I think we, you know, I joined you on Tales from the Backlog to talk about Killer 7.

[00:13:14] And one of the things that we talked about is that seeing America through Japanese viewpoint, right?

[00:13:23] Which I always think is fascinating.

[00:13:25] I love that stuff, right?

[00:13:27] But you are right.

[00:13:28] Like now it didn't bother me personally.

[00:13:30] But yeah, it is a very strange depiction of like American- Americana, as you put it.

[00:13:36] Like it is, but it didn't actually bother me.

[00:13:40] Like all the diner stuff and like Chocobo ranches, right?

[00:13:44] And like all that, all that stuff.

[00:13:46] I don't know.

[00:13:47] I just took it for what it was.

[00:13:49] Maybe, I think there's some people complained about it that it like wasn't very Final Fantasy, which I just, I mean, what does that mean anymore, right?

[00:13:58] Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't really care.

[00:14:00] Like, you know, is this setting Final Fantasy or something like that?

[00:14:04] But it was just, it was too much for me to like really feel like this is a real place or anything like that.

[00:14:13] I could assume characters like Cindy and stuff played into that because they were so like over the top.

[00:14:19] Yeah.

[00:14:19] Cindy and Sid and the Chocobo guy and yeah.

[00:14:23] Yeah.

[00:14:24] And then, so the other part of it is the road trip aspect.

[00:14:27] And this is the thing that everyone says, like you may hate Final Fantasy 15, but Final Fantasy 15 is the ultimate bro road trip.

[00:14:36] And this is the thing that everybody points to as like the strongest part of the game is the friendship between the four main characters.

[00:14:45] And like their friendship is on display and it's good.

[00:14:50] But in order for me to go along with this road trip that they're on, I feel like I have to like them as characters, not relationships.

[00:14:59] And I could not give a shit less about any of the main characters in the first 10 hours that I played.

[00:15:05] I cannot, I cannot get emotionally invested in a character named Prompto.

[00:15:11] It's never going to happen.

[00:15:13] It's just not, or a character named Gladiolus.

[00:15:15] I'm never going to care about that character.

[00:15:18] And, you know, Noctis is a boring protagonist, or at least he is at the beginning of the game.

[00:15:23] And so like when they interact, it's cool, but I don't care about any of them individually.

[00:15:28] So like, I know there's stuff that happens late in the story, like, you know, tragic events and stuff.

[00:15:33] And I'm just like, I can't imagine caring when something happens to Ignis or something like that.

[00:15:38] I don't give a shit about this character.

[00:15:40] So, so I like, I'm sorry.

[00:15:43] I like, I just want to say, I kind of agree with you and Gladiolus and Noctis.

[00:15:47] I do really like Ignis and Prompto.

[00:15:49] You know what?

[00:15:49] I feel fucking stupid even saying those names out loud.

[00:15:52] Now that you said that, like, it's true.

[00:15:54] Everyone thought that, I mean, the names are, yeah, I get you.

[00:15:57] I totally understand.

[00:15:59] But yeah, I like two of them quite a bit.

[00:16:01] The other two, maybe whatever.

[00:16:03] They're whatever.

[00:16:04] I didn't dislike them though.

[00:16:05] Yeah.

[00:16:06] So it's like the, you know, there's, there's been, you know, debates and in, you know, podcast discussions and, you know, YouTube videos and everybody trying to nail down.

[00:16:16] Like, what is the essence of Final Fantasy and that's, you know, especially interesting when we talk about this, this more modern era of Final Fantasy.

[00:16:25] When you like, things are more different between games than they ever were before, I feel like, and more different from the series roots than maybe they've ever been before.

[00:16:35] But the one thing in all my favorite Final Fantasy games, the thing that ties them all together is I really care about characters.

[00:16:42] I really care about the relationships between them.

[00:16:45] When something happens to a character in my favorite games, it's, you know, it's emotional or it's shocking or whatever, because I care about them as characters.

[00:16:55] Like Final Fantasy X, when things happen between Tidus and Yuna, like I feel those moments because I love those characters and I love their relationship.

[00:17:05] And in 15, like, I just like, I can't play a Final Fantasy game if I don't care about the characters.

[00:17:11] And like, this is different than, you know, thinking about like some eventually one day I'm going to play Final Fantasy one.

[00:17:17] I know I'm not going to give a shit about those characters because they're not actually characters.

[00:17:21] No, they're not.

[00:17:22] In the first game.

[00:17:23] This is different.

[00:17:24] These are supposed to be characters that you care about.

[00:17:26] And I just like, I got to a certain point and I was like, I don't, I don't care.

[00:17:31] They could drive this car off a cliff and I wouldn't care.

[00:17:33] So I turned it off.

[00:17:37] Okay.

[00:17:37] You know what, man?

[00:17:38] I, okay, I, I can't disagree with like a whole lot of your saying, obviously, because it's your opinion.

[00:17:44] I, what am I, you know, of course that's the way you feel.

[00:17:46] Right.

[00:17:47] So I guess what I, I guess what is a little baffling to me is like none, there's nothing that could have overcame for you.

[00:17:54] Like we, obviously you didn't say any like gameplay stuff.

[00:17:57] Like you didn't, did you hate the battle system?

[00:17:59] Did you think the summons were shitty or like, what about some of like the nuts and bolts of the game or just like the quests were boring too also?

[00:18:07] Or like what, what about that stuff?

[00:18:10] Okay.

[00:18:11] So the open world quests were fine.

[00:18:16] I don't remember being invested in the main plot at all.

[00:18:20] Uh, and the battle system I thought was like, okay.

[00:18:23] Uh, now I had the, maybe the misfortune in my opinion of playing 15 after playing seven remake when 15 is kind of like a proto version of the seven remake combat.

[00:18:35] And I think seven remake and rebirth have maybe the best action RPG combat ever made.

[00:18:43] So going back to the prototype, in my opinion, which 15 felt like to me, it's just not going to feel good.

[00:18:50] And like the, uh, I forget what it's called, but noctus can do like the warping around the battlefield and stuff that never felt great to me, but it like the combat felt.

[00:18:59] Okay.

[00:19:00] What, what got it for me was like, I, I got to this point where I was like, I don't care about the story.

[00:19:05] And it like infamously, like you were supposed to like watch an anime and watch a movie and all that stuff.

[00:19:10] And like, that's supposed to like set up this world and stuff.

[00:19:14] And I'm not doing that.

[00:19:15] I'm just not going to.

[00:19:17] I don't blame you.

[00:19:18] I just so happened to watch Kings wave like two months before I played the game just by chance.

[00:19:24] I wasn't like, Oh, I'm going to play the game soon.

[00:19:26] I just, I just saw it on the shelf for 10 bucks.

[00:19:28] I'm like, yeah, sure.

[00:19:29] I'll watch that.

[00:19:30] You know?

[00:19:31] Yeah.

[00:19:31] And then I, I just, I, I, so I knew what was happening in the first third of the game.

[00:19:36] But if you don't watch Kings slave, you really don't know why they're going on this road trip.

[00:19:40] You have no idea.

[00:19:42] And look, I might argue that you don't really have to know, but like, if you want to know, it's not in the game.

[00:19:47] Well, it's like, he's, he's going to pick up his, uh, betrothed like wife to be or something like that.

[00:19:54] He's going to go find her.

[00:19:55] Right.

[00:19:55] She has a fucking just stupid name too.

[00:19:57] Like it, the names of Freya.

[00:19:59] Yeah.

[00:20:00] Um, way to just combine two character names from earlier in the series.

[00:20:04] Nice, nice work.

[00:20:06] Uh, so I got to this point where like, I don't care about the characters.

[00:20:11] The combat is okay.

[00:20:13] Um, I don't care about this main plot really.

[00:20:16] I'm also like lacking context.

[00:20:20] And like, if you want to blame me for not watching the supplemental material, that's fine.

[00:20:24] Like not you personally, but listeners, anybody wants to blame me?

[00:20:28] Fine.

[00:20:29] I'm okay with that, but I'm not watching, uh, an anime and a movie just to know what's going on in a game.

[00:20:35] You should never have to do that.

[00:20:37] I think it was a stupid strategy on their part, but it got to this point where it was like, okay,

[00:20:41] we're going to take like a 15 minute car ride from this beach area into like the mountains or something like that.

[00:20:50] And like, it was, you can't skip it.

[00:20:52] You can't fast forward.

[00:20:54] You can drive for 15 straight minutes or you can do the auto drive thing.

[00:20:58] And I like set it on the auto drive thing and had a good, hard think about how I'm spending my time when it was driving.

[00:21:04] That was like, you know what?

[00:21:06] I'm done with this.

[00:21:07] I'm, I'm going to play earthbound now.

[00:21:09] Okay.

[00:21:10] I don't blame you.

[00:21:12] Okay.

[00:21:12] I look, I like all the driving stuff.

[00:21:14] I thought it was weird that they were driving this like relatively like final fantasy eight ass looking car or whatever,

[00:21:20] like around in this place.

[00:21:22] It was just very like, I don't know.

[00:21:25] There was something about it that I liked.

[00:21:27] It's very confused.

[00:21:28] That's what happens when you develop something for a decade and you like, it's called final fantasy versus 13 for some reason.

[00:21:35] And then you get, you get galaxy brain about like, you know, we're going to have all this tie in where it's going to be the final fantasy 15 extended universe and all this others.

[00:21:46] Like, it's just, I don't know.

[00:21:49] They square Enix has had a bunch of misguided ideas over the past 10 to 15 years.

[00:21:57] And this is certainly one of them in my opinion.

[00:22:00] Yeah, man.

[00:22:01] I, like I said, I like this game overall, but it hits a, it hits a wall.

[00:22:07] And here's the part where I want to just be.

[00:22:09] Okay.

[00:22:10] So, okay.

[00:22:10] Do you remember the last story point by any chance that you, that happened when you quit or no?

[00:22:16] Uh, I want to say some weird guy showed up on a pier.

[00:22:20] I was supposed to take a boat somewhere and something happened.

[00:22:23] And then they were like, we'll just drive through the mountain path or something.

[00:22:27] That's, that's all I got.

[00:22:28] I couldn't tell you anything about the story other than going to find Luna Freya.

[00:22:33] Okay.

[00:22:34] So basically the game goes off the rails for me when the open world essentially ends.

[00:22:42] Like after like chapter nine or so, and you go to this other place, you get, you take a boat to this place.

[00:22:49] And then like the villain who's fucking useless in this game, he has no motivation.

[00:22:57] I've never seen a more motivation list villain in my fucking life.

[00:23:02] I have no idea what his deal is, why he hates them or why he killed Luna Freya for no particular reason.

[00:23:11] He just kills her.

[00:23:12] He just shows up, he warps there and he kills her.

[00:23:15] And then he leaves.

[00:23:17] And then it's like, what?

[00:23:20] I all, I look, I already wasn't buying their relationship because it's like, you know, they keep flashing back to, oh, we're going to be together.

[00:23:27] We're going to get married and whatever.

[00:23:28] But like, you don't really care about the relationship.

[00:23:30] That is one thing I do agree with you with.

[00:23:32] I just did not.

[00:23:33] I did not care about them or her really.

[00:23:35] Really?

[00:23:36] Yeah.

[00:23:37] And then you really don't care about that moment.

[00:23:40] That's supposed to be impactful because they showed you scenes before.

[00:23:43] Now you care about her dying.

[00:23:45] And why is he killing her?

[00:23:46] I don't know.

[00:23:47] And you never find out.

[00:23:51] You sure it's not in another anime or another movie on the side somewhere?

[00:23:56] Yeah.

[00:23:56] Kingsglaive two, right?

[00:23:57] I got to watch.

[00:23:58] Well, that's the thing too.

[00:23:59] This game has a million pieces of DLC, which did not exist when I played it.

[00:24:03] But it's like, okay, sorry.

[00:24:05] I didn't wait long enough to play your stupid DLC, which I'm not going to do to complete the game.

[00:24:11] But like, yeah, he has no motivation the whole game.

[00:24:15] After that, like I said, the open world ends and it essentially turns into like the Xenogears of Final Fantasy.

[00:24:22] You're just like led from place to place.

[00:24:24] Okay, now I'm here.

[00:24:25] And now we have cut scenes and now I'm doing stuff.

[00:24:28] Okay, now time for more cut scenes.

[00:24:30] Now I'm somewhere else and I'm doing stuff, which like I'm not saying is always bad.

[00:24:35] I mean, a lot of Grandia 2 is like that.

[00:24:37] It's my absolute favorite, right?

[00:24:39] At the same time, you can't take away all.

[00:24:42] You can't take away the promise of the game for the last third of the game.

[00:24:46] The whole driving around and Americana and whatever, like all of that's over.

[00:24:52] It's done.

[00:24:52] And here's the thing.

[00:24:54] If you want to go back to that stuff, you can.

[00:24:56] Hey, if you want to rewind before chapter nine, go to use this item and then you could go back to it.

[00:25:02] It's like, what the hell?

[00:25:04] So they had 10 years to make this game.

[00:25:06] They didn't finish it.

[00:25:07] Yeah.

[00:25:08] It's just what you're describing sounds like something we might talk about with 16 also, where they start out with a, you know, a new take on the setting.

[00:25:17] And then by the end of the game, guess what?

[00:25:20] It's it's Final Fantasy stuff like the same stuff you probably guessed was coming.

[00:25:24] It's here.

[00:25:25] Except 16.

[00:25:27] They actually finished the game.

[00:25:28] They finished the story.

[00:25:29] They did.

[00:25:30] For the most part.

[00:25:31] There's a couple of loopholes.

[00:25:32] We'll get to those in a second.

[00:25:33] But but yeah, like that happens.

[00:25:35] Right.

[00:25:35] And then basically all those scenes are basically tragedy to the characters.

[00:25:41] Ignis goes blind.

[00:25:43] He can't cook anymore.

[00:25:45] That's his whole thing.

[00:25:46] Aha.

[00:25:46] I came up with a new recipe.

[00:25:48] No, not anymore, bitch.

[00:25:49] You can't even see like they took that away from him.

[00:25:53] That's the whole like if you're going to get any joy from this game and its characters is that and they took it away for no reason.

[00:25:59] Usually you make your character suffer.

[00:26:00] They could so they could rise above it or something like that.

[00:26:03] That doesn't happen in Final Fantasy 15.

[00:26:06] And you know what they did?

[00:26:08] And it's kind of a clever touch, but it also like just reflects how dour the game becomes.

[00:26:12] They all all this stuff kind of happens.

[00:26:15] They all start fighting and they all they all don't like each other for like a good like seven hours of the game.

[00:26:20] And you could hear it in the voice acting in the battles because like, you know how like usually they snapped each other like Ignis or whatever.

[00:26:27] Do this.

[00:26:27] He's like Ignis.

[00:26:29] And he just he just like it's very flat.

[00:26:32] Like he doesn't even want to talk to him anymore.

[00:26:34] Well, that's kind of cool.

[00:26:36] It is cool.

[00:26:37] Like from like a game perspective.

[00:26:38] But like it's also like, OK, now you guys don't even like each other anymore.

[00:26:42] I thought we were having this bro trip like, yeah, Jesus Christ.

[00:26:47] Prompto is not a human being.

[00:26:49] He's like some sort of synthetic.

[00:26:51] I don't know.

[00:26:54] Repload by aroid.

[00:26:55] I don't know what they're called in Final Fantasy.

[00:26:57] This is Final Fantasy universe, but he's like not like a person.

[00:27:01] Well, that makes sense because no human mother would name their son Prompto.

[00:27:04] So that's never happened in the history of of the United States of America.

[00:27:12] No, it's just that like, yeah, this so that happens.

[00:27:16] But then but that doesn't amount to anything.

[00:27:17] It's like, sorry, guys, I thought you wouldn't like me if you found out.

[00:27:20] And it's like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[00:27:23] I you're the same as Prompto to us.

[00:27:25] How about we just keep going?

[00:27:27] So that doesn't amount to anything.

[00:27:29] Then, of course, like, you know, big sacrifice at the end.

[00:27:32] Noctis dies.

[00:27:33] He gets stabbed through with all the fucking sword things.

[00:27:36] Right.

[00:27:37] And he has to I don't know.

[00:27:38] I even forget now why he has to do that.

[00:27:41] He has to die.

[00:27:42] So something else can happen or whatever.

[00:27:44] And then they show like a, you know, it was nice.

[00:27:46] They show after that.

[00:27:47] They showed like a little final scene around like a campfire before they before they went into the final place of which the final villain was still a complete pushover.

[00:27:55] It was not a final boss at all.

[00:27:57] Is that like the big like dragon looking thing?

[00:28:00] Yeah, there is that.

[00:28:02] But then like you had to do something else after that.

[00:28:04] And it was just very anticlimactic because you.

[00:28:07] Oh, yeah.

[00:28:07] They show that the beginning of the game, huh?

[00:28:09] Because you go up there.

[00:28:10] You I think that's like the big it's one of those things for the end of the game is the beginning where they show.

[00:28:15] They have you do like a little thing, I think.

[00:28:17] Yeah, I don't remember.

[00:28:18] I've just I've just seen videos, you know, showcasing like, you know, I've seen like, you know, critiques of Final Fantasy 15 where, you know, they basically are like, hey, who the fuck knows why you're doing this?

[00:28:31] But it looks cool.

[00:28:32] So just kind of sit back and enjoy this pretty much.

[00:28:35] And it was cool.

[00:28:36] But it's also like I really hate motivation was at least do the thing.

[00:28:42] I want to take over the world.

[00:28:43] I'm so evil.

[00:28:44] Ha ha.

[00:28:44] Like the snidey whiplash thing.

[00:28:46] He wasn't he didn't even seem to do that.

[00:28:47] It seemed like he had something else going on there, but it was just like, OK, whatever.

[00:28:51] So, yeah, I hated that part of the game.

[00:28:53] But the two thirds up to that, like all the open world driving around, like whatever.

[00:28:57] I loved it.

[00:28:58] So that part I give an eight.

[00:29:00] The other parts of the game, I'd give like a four.

[00:29:04] So it kind of averages out to like a six.

[00:29:06] That's that's how I feel about Final Fantasy 15.

[00:29:10] The music's good.

[00:29:11] So I'll give it two points because the music's great.

[00:29:14] Oh, Yoko Shimomura killed it.

[00:29:16] It's so yes, she doesn't miss.

[00:29:17] But, you know, funny thing about Final Fantasy 15 before we move on, I I like to buy physical

[00:29:25] games and then sell them to GameStop or now my local stores.

[00:29:30] Now that GameStop is, you know, no bueno to just like save money because games are expensive.

[00:29:37] GameStop won't even take Final Fantasy 15.

[00:29:39] I looked on their website.

[00:29:41] They're like, no, no trade in.

[00:29:42] We are not taking this.

[00:29:43] So I was like, OK, guess I'm stuck with this.

[00:29:46] It's like an old Madden or something.

[00:29:48] It's like that.

[00:29:49] We're not taking Madden 21.

[00:29:51] Exactly.

[00:29:51] Yeah, it's probably on that level.

[00:29:53] So that was just a fun little thing I found.

[00:29:56] That's pretty funny.

[00:29:57] They probably made so many copies and sold so much and everyone's tired of it now.

[00:30:01] It's like, OK, enough.

[00:30:03] Yeah, it's like, you know, like, I mean, I don't know about now because people are fucking

[00:30:07] savages, but like whenever you go into you shopping, you see like, oh, here's yet another

[00:30:11] Mario and Duck Hunt cartridge for 99 cents.

[00:30:14] Right.

[00:30:14] Like it's just has no value.

[00:30:17] Yeah.

[00:30:17] All right.

[00:30:18] Well, thank you for spilling that to find time.

[00:30:22] I've wanted to know for a long time and it was definitely worth the wait.

[00:30:25] So thank you.

[00:30:25] Good, good, good.

[00:30:26] Now for something a little bit more positive, I think.

[00:30:29] Indeed.

[00:30:49] Hey, let's talk Final Fantasy seven remake and rebirth.

[00:30:54] Obviously the best we can without spoiling.

[00:30:56] Right.

[00:30:57] Um, uh, so what?

[00:30:59] Let me let me just grill you about this.

[00:31:01] So when the remake project was announced, was that something you were looking forward

[00:31:05] to as it was like coming close to happening?

[00:31:08] Cause I, I feel like we feel the same about the original Final Fantasy seven.

[00:31:12] It's, it's fine, but it's not like our favorite.

[00:31:14] So how, how did you feel coming into this?

[00:31:17] Do you remember when this got announced?

[00:31:20] Yeah.

[00:31:21] It was like, it was an, was it a Sony event or was it an E3 in 2015?

[00:31:31] 15, 15, 15.

[00:31:32] Okay.

[00:31:33] Okay.

[00:31:33] So like the reason I ask is cause I don't remember this being announced.

[00:31:36] I first heard of this when I saw it on like a, you know, presentation because the demo is

[00:31:44] coming out soon.

[00:31:45] That's like, I might've heard from a friend.

[00:31:47] Cause like one of my best friends is a huge FF seven head.

[00:31:51] He's been on both of the remake and rebirth episodes on tales from the backlog with me.

[00:31:56] Um, so maybe I heard from him cause he was excited, but like, I didn't like fully internalize

[00:32:02] it until I was like, saw that the demo was coming out for remake.

[00:32:06] Um, but I was excited because one of the things about the original seven for me is I liked

[00:32:13] the Midgar section a lot more.

[00:32:16] And I, I kind of feel like that game like goes off the rails once you leave Midgar and

[00:32:22] especially like in the, like the last third of the game, I really didn't like it at all.

[00:32:27] Yes.

[00:32:28] Um, I feel the same.

[00:32:29] Yeah.

[00:32:29] So when I heard like the remakes coming out and it's just the Midgar section, I was like,

[00:32:35] Oh, that's cool.

[00:32:35] That's my favorite part of the original game.

[00:32:37] That's awesome.

[00:32:38] Uh, and then like, once I saw it in, this is like a common theme throughout a lot of final

[00:32:44] fantasy, including probably six, uh, 15.

[00:32:47] And then we'll talk about with 16 later.

[00:32:49] But when I saw what it looks like, I was like, wow, this looks incredible.

[00:32:54] Uh, not a hot take to say that I don't think the original FF seven looks good.

[00:33:00] So, um, like I, I wasn't there.

[00:33:03] I wasn't there for being blown away by the pre-rendered cut scenes back in 97 or whenever

[00:33:09] it came out.

[00:33:09] I wasn't there for it.

[00:33:11] So like, it obviously won't look that great to me playing it for the first time 15 years

[00:33:17] later.

[00:33:17] So when I saw what the remake looks like, I was like, this looks incredible.

[00:33:21] And then that's what really got me excited was like, so many people love this game.

[00:33:26] Here's another chance for me to engage with it, to connect with it.

[00:33:32] Yeah.

[00:33:33] Um, I understand that completely.

[00:33:34] And in fact, I didn't, I mean, look, I knew it was coming out and it had been whatever,

[00:33:39] but I was like, I, I, I don't care about final fantasy seven like that.

[00:33:42] I just don't, I have a friend who does.

[00:33:44] And so he played, he played remake and I asked him to tell me what happens in the game because

[00:33:50] I don't care.

[00:33:51] Just spoil it for me.

[00:33:52] I want to know what they do different here.

[00:33:54] And he told me the ending.

[00:33:56] I was like, what?

[00:34:00] And that's what got me into, I was like, now I got to play it.

[00:34:02] And then they announced the PlayStation five version graphics on PlayStation five for favorite

[00:34:06] thing to say on fight time.

[00:34:07] And then, uh, and then like, yeah.

[00:34:10] So I was like, dude, when this comes out on PS five, I'm definitely now that's very interesting.

[00:34:14] I think, you know what I'm talking about with the ending there.

[00:34:17] Yeah.

[00:34:17] So that, yeah, that got me interested.

[00:34:19] The spoiler got me interested because he, I, cause he, cause he told me and I'm really

[00:34:25] glad I did.

[00:34:26] The game looks fucking amazing.

[00:34:27] It's the perfect representation of those pre renders from back in the day.

[00:34:31] Like they didn't update a thing.

[00:34:33] Aerith's hair is still nineties as hell, right?

[00:34:36] Like it, it still looks like that only like, as you always imagined it, which is the best

[00:34:41] thing a remake can do.

[00:34:43] Let me get your thoughts on this.

[00:34:45] Speaking of those story points again, obviously we're not going to spoil.

[00:34:49] Have you been largely satisfied or dissatisfied with what has happened so far in remake and

[00:34:57] rebirth?

[00:34:57] The, the, the subversions of the original story.

[00:35:01] Let's just put it that way.

[00:35:03] Um, honestly, it's hard to say because they're building this out to like a, a big thing and

[00:35:11] like, you know, part three of the trilogy, I think is going to have, it's going to be the

[00:35:15] point where it all comes together.

[00:35:17] Obviously it's the last game.

[00:35:18] Um, so far I, I was interested during remake.

[00:35:23] I was pretty like, not disappointed in that it's bad, but disappointed that like, I, I

[00:35:31] didn't think they did enough with it in rebirth.

[00:35:33] Um, you know, the, you know, like the, the stuff with Zach, like Zach's on the cover of

[00:35:38] rebirth.

[00:35:39] It's not a spoiler that he's a part of the game, right?

[00:35:41] But I was disappointed that he's in rebirth for like 40 minutes out of 70 hours.

[00:35:46] So like, I wanted more of that storyline and to me rebirth, it's the middle part of a trilogy.

[00:35:52] So of course it's going to be like this, but I, I don't like, I finished that game feeling

[00:35:58] oddly disappointed that they didn't do enough of that new stuff for me to really have an

[00:36:03] opinion.

[00:36:03] I started that game with the opinion of we'll see what happens.

[00:36:08] And I ended it with the opinion of we'll see what happens.

[00:36:11] I can't, I can't really have a strong, the only strong opinion that I have is a huge spoiler

[00:36:17] for rebirth.

[00:36:17] So I'm not going to say it here, but I was like kind of disappointed in that I'll say, I'll

[00:36:26] just leave it there.

[00:36:27] Um, my big thing for four years and I screamed it from the rooftops after I beat remake.

[00:36:33] I was like, they're not going to kill Aerith.

[00:36:36] They're not going to do it anymore.

[00:36:37] That's the big thing.

[00:36:38] That's always a big thing about this story.

[00:36:40] And of course I'm not going to tell anyone what happens in, in rebirth.

[00:36:43] I'm just saying that was my whole thing.

[00:36:46] And since that was my whole thing, I'm like, what happened to the game?

[00:36:50] I was like, what in the world?

[00:36:55] And so it was a, it was a thing where it was like, when I first beat the game, I wasn't

[00:37:00] sure that I liked the ending.

[00:37:01] But then after I thought about it for a couple of days, I'm like, no, this shit is

[00:37:05] badass.

[00:37:05] I loved it because then I thought about it some more.

[00:37:08] I was like, no, this was really cool.

[00:37:10] So I came around on it.

[00:37:11] It's not that I hated it.

[00:37:12] I think I was just too confused, too shell shocked.

[00:37:15] But then, you know, I, I, I came around.

[00:37:19] Here's what I really want to talk about.

[00:37:22] When rebirth came out, I know you had some issues with like its open world approach and

[00:37:28] we talked about it and you preferred like remakes, like constraint, like, you know, cause

[00:37:34] it was in mid GAR was kind of linear or whatever versus like, you know, this, this giant thing.

[00:37:41] I obviously do not agree with this, but why don't you elaborate why you feel this way?

[00:37:46] And like, has your opinion changed now that you sat with it the rest of the year?

[00:37:50] Have you, have you softened on that or do you feel the same?

[00:37:53] Uh, no.

[00:37:55] And it's, it's, I don't like the open world stuff in rebirth that much because I think it

[00:38:01] kills pacing.

[00:38:02] There are several moments throughout the story and rebirth where they are like huge, like

[00:38:09] colossal plot points that will leave you feeling certain ways.

[00:38:14] And, you know, two minutes after I'm done with these characters are not reflecting on them.

[00:38:21] I'm doing a chocobo stealth section or I'm doing some other bullshit open world thing because

[00:38:27] it's a new zone and I have to do the tutorial for what this zone's gimmick is.

[00:38:32] And like, in my opinion, we should be ruminating on some of these plot points.

[00:38:38] And instead I'm learning what the gimmick for chocobos in this area is so that I can go do

[00:38:44] a bunch of stuff that is like kind of optional, but kind of not like you can't ignore.

[00:38:51] All of it because you'll fall behind the level curve.

[00:38:53] This is a big way you get experience in this game is by doing open world stuff.

[00:38:58] And it's just so much of it.

[00:39:01] It's a 70 hour game.

[00:39:04] And that's, and I skipped a lot of open world stuff and it still took me 70 hours to beat

[00:39:09] this game.

[00:39:09] And I don't love final fantasy sevens world enough to just soak in this for 70 to a hundred

[00:39:17] hours.

[00:39:17] Like I talked on, on my, uh, upcoming tales from the backlog episode with my, uh, my FF seven

[00:39:24] head friends.

[00:39:25] And they were both like, no, this is like, I, you know, I, whatever climbing towers is

[00:39:30] not inherently cool, but the world of final fantasy seven is my favorite place in video games.

[00:39:35] I will do this for 300 hours.

[00:39:37] So like, I get people like that, but for me, the activities themselves, other than combat

[00:39:44] challenges, cause the combat fucks in this game, like it's so good.

[00:39:48] I want to do every combat challenge.

[00:39:50] Other than that, I didn't find these are inherently fun or rewarding to do.

[00:39:54] So, so like when pacing is broken up or like, you know, maybe I, I use the Chocobo stealth

[00:40:01] section example earlier, but the, the more egregious thing is like, I know I have to do these things

[00:40:07] to stay on the level curve.

[00:40:10] So I'm really excited to go to Cosmo Canyon and see what's in there.

[00:40:14] But before going to Cosmo Canyon, I have to do this open world stuff that I don't like.

[00:40:21] And it makes it feel that much worse when I feel like I'm being made to do it instead

[00:40:27] of getting to the points that I really cared about.

[00:40:30] And like, you could go to Cosmo Canyon and then go back out and do that stuff.

[00:40:33] But like, it's kind of like, let me just fucking take my medicine so I can get to the part of

[00:40:37] the game I want to do.

[00:40:38] That's kind of how I felt.

[00:40:40] Okay.

[00:40:41] I think that's fair.

[00:40:42] I think I would say that the open world stuff is very like you go to a thing.

[00:40:50] Oh, uh, press X and triangle a few times on a circle or the climbing the tower stuff.

[00:40:56] You literally just climb the tower.

[00:40:58] You climb a couple ladders and press a button.

[00:41:00] So it's, it's very hard for me to like be upset about that.

[00:41:03] I understand if it was like an entire thing, like Zelda towers or even like tall necks and

[00:41:08] horizon or whatever.

[00:41:09] But the fact that it's just, you literally just go there and press a button.

[00:41:12] It's so hard for me to be like, well, this sucks.

[00:41:16] Here's, that's just how I feel about it.

[00:41:18] Here's why.

[00:41:19] So Zelda towers and tall necks are good comparison points because there are like comparatively

[00:41:25] way fewer of those throughout those games.

[00:41:27] There's like, I don't know, 15 to 20 towers in all of breath of the wild.

[00:41:32] And then in, uh, rebirth, there's 15 towers in every open world zone.

[00:41:38] And there's like eight open world zones.

[00:41:40] So like the act of doing them is not difficult, but it becomes tedious to just do this thing.

[00:41:48] That's not engaging at all over and over and over again.

[00:41:52] And then the kicker is I have to talk to Chad Lee every time I do it.

[00:41:55] That's, that's the main issue.

[00:41:57] Uh, I, I get you.

[00:41:59] No, I, I, I can't disagree with that.

[00:42:01] It's just that like, I think I'm only annoyed by stuff if it is annoying to do.

[00:42:05] And since it wasn't annoying to do, I understand there's a lot of them.

[00:42:08] Right.

[00:42:09] And I wasn't trying to dunk on a, not that, not that you thought I was, but like on like

[00:42:13] Zelda towers or something.

[00:42:14] Cause those are fun as hell.

[00:42:15] Like I love that shit.

[00:42:16] Yeah.

[00:42:16] Those are many challenges.

[00:42:17] Like I'm engaged by trying to climb up a tower while the guardians are shooting lasers at

[00:42:23] me or something like that.

[00:42:24] Like that's cool.

[00:42:25] That's, Oh yeah.

[00:42:26] That's using some strategy.

[00:42:28] That's some of the scariest shit in video games.

[00:42:30] When like you're almost at the top and you get laser and you just make that long fall,

[00:42:34] you know, you're going to die, but it's just like, Oh God.

[00:42:38] Um, again, like I, I, in remake and rebirth, like, I, I feel like I'm, I'm talking more shit

[00:42:46] than like is deserved.

[00:42:47] Uh, now we're talking about open world stuff, but right.

[00:42:50] I, I cannot stress how good I think the combat system is.

[00:42:53] And I, I don't, I don't like the combat in really any of the PlayStation one final fantasy

[00:42:59] games.

[00:42:59] I think it's like just kind of boring.

[00:43:02] I don't care about materia customization.

[00:43:04] Okay.

[00:43:04] I care about what you're actually doing during the fights.

[00:43:07] That's what I care about in RPGs.

[00:43:09] Uh, so I like when this kind of like got, you know, announced or whatever, I was like,

[00:43:14] Oh cool.

[00:43:15] Like, what are they going to do with the combat?

[00:43:17] And then when I played the demo for FF seven remake, I was like, this is incredible.

[00:43:21] And they, they, it's better in rebirth.

[00:43:24] I think that I, I, I can't think of a better action RPG combat system than rebirth.

[00:43:30] It is like incredibly good.

[00:43:32] And so you are 100% correct.

[00:43:35] I couldn't agree more.

[00:43:36] It's the best.

[00:43:37] I think it's the best battle system of all time.

[00:43:39] Uh, as far as action RPG goes, I completely agree.

[00:43:42] Yeah.

[00:43:42] Yeah.

[00:43:43] It's the action part of it is a little bit lacking, but you know, we'll talk about 16

[00:43:49] here in a minute.

[00:43:49] I will give some concessions on the, like the feel of the action side of it.

[00:43:55] If my strategy brain is tickled the way that it is in remake and rebirth.

[00:44:01] And like, just, I don't know, you rarely get in sweet spots of like, you know, quick decision

[00:44:07] making and like setting up plans and, you know, adjusting to new things that come into the battle.

[00:44:13] And it's just so good in these games.

[00:44:15] I can't, I cannot stress how good these combat systems are.

[00:44:20] I, I will say, and this is controversial, but I do like final fantasy 15s combat a lot.

[00:44:27] I would say that I like it more than 16 and remake.

[00:44:30] I do not like it more than rebirth rebirth perfected it.

[00:44:34] Remake had really good combat, but it was, it just had a couple little, it had some stuff

[00:44:39] that I thought was really fucking obnoxious about it.

[00:44:42] Remake fixed everything for me.

[00:44:45] And then some, I think remakes combat is just, or rebirth combat.

[00:44:49] Sorry.

[00:44:49] It's just such a cut above.

[00:44:52] I, I can't stress that, but I'm one of those people who really, really likes 15s combat that way.

[00:44:58] So for me, for the other games so far after that, didn't stand up to it until rebirth.

[00:45:04] Like, I just want to just give a quick shout out to the way the characters are rendered,

[00:45:12] the way they look, and then the way they, they talk to each other, the dynamics between the party

[00:45:16] members, uh, the friendships, like you hope that they're going to do this when they blow a five

[00:45:23] hour section of a game into its own 45 hour game.

[00:45:26] You hope that they're going to use that time wisely.

[00:45:28] And like, is it padded in remake and rebirth?

[00:45:32] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:45:33] It's a little bit padded, but every time, you know, cloud and Tifa and Aerith and Barrett are

[00:45:40] talking to each other.

[00:45:41] I love it.

[00:45:42] Like the, and especially in rebirth, you start to get like the, you know,

[00:45:46] the girls start to become like really good friends with each other and you get this weird

[00:45:50] dynamic of like, Hey, clouds kind of clouds acting kind of funny.

[00:45:54] And like everyone else is kind of chatting about that a little bit.

[00:45:57] And I love the characterization of Barrett.

[00:45:59] Um, I love the, uh, the voice actor for Barrett is just like, just given 150% all the time.

[00:46:06] He's perfect.

[00:46:07] He's spot on.

[00:46:08] He's so good.

[00:46:09] So people can have their quibbles about the way that they remade the story and like the

[00:46:14] new things they're doing with the story.

[00:46:15] But I feel like the way they treated the characters is like perfect in this remake series.

[00:46:21] That's what it's all about, man.

[00:46:23] That's why I'm here because they're actual characters.

[00:46:25] Now that was always my biggest problem with final fantasy seven.

[00:46:27] I love the gameplay.

[00:46:28] I actually do like the material stuff and I liked all the secrets and world map and stuff.

[00:46:33] The characters and the story just fell so flat for me.

[00:46:36] I did not like any of those people and shit.

[00:46:39] Barrett was practically embarrassing.

[00:46:42] It's like, I, I mean, I don't, obviously anyone who's played the original game knows

[00:46:46] what I'm talking about.

[00:46:48] So the fact that he's like a real person now and not Mr. T is fucking incredible.

[00:46:54] He's still got a, he's still got a little bit of Mr. T in him, but he is a real person.

[00:46:58] Of course that that's what he is, you know?

[00:47:00] And they depicted it perfectly, perfectly.

[00:47:03] All the voice I cloud has an impossible voice acting job and he did it.

[00:47:07] He has to convey like a few different people there.

[00:47:10] Right.

[00:47:10] So it's like, it's, it's fantastic.

[00:47:13] Sephiroth was perfect.

[00:47:14] I think everything was spot on.

[00:47:17] Yeah.

[00:47:17] It's really good.

[00:47:18] So like for all the stuff about open world, um, when we got to like story stuff and character

[00:47:24] moments and stuff in rebirth, I was still like a hundred percent in for all of that.

[00:47:29] Oh yeah.

[00:47:30] I, yeah, we, we can definitely agree.

[00:47:33] I definitely like the open world stuff more than you.

[00:47:36] Um, but yeah, as far as like the, you know, combat characters, all that, I think we are

[00:47:40] pretty much in lockstep.

[00:47:43] Yep.

[00:47:59] All right.

[00:48:00] It's time to talk final fantasy 16.

[00:48:02] We have, let's do it.

[00:48:03] I just have like a bunch of random bullet points here.

[00:48:06] I don't really have a plan for this.

[00:48:07] So I guess we can just start wherever, but I think I'll just start with the base that

[00:48:12] like final fantasy 16 for me is characterized by like extreme highs and extreme lows.

[00:48:20] There is some of the, some of the stuff in final fantasy 16 is some of the coolest shit I have

[00:48:25] ever seen.

[00:48:25] And also some of those boring shit I have ever played is in final fantasy 16.

[00:48:30] Would you agree with me?

[00:48:32] A hundred percent.

[00:48:34] Some of the, especially like the boss fights, like the icon boss fights in 16 are the coolest

[00:48:41] thing I've ever fucking seen.

[00:48:42] Like you said, like there were a couple of them where I was like, literally like a kid,

[00:48:48] like a little kid with a shit eating grin on my face.

[00:48:51] Oh yeah.

[00:48:52] Like fighting Bahamut in 16.

[00:48:54] I was sitting there like, this is why I bought a PS five.

[00:48:58] This is like, this is what I want from, you know, when, when you have these huge triple

[00:49:04] A projects with these insane budgets and everything like that, you better give me some fucking

[00:49:08] spectacle for all of that.

[00:49:10] And 16 gives you some spectacle.

[00:49:13] But like you said, after that's over, you go down into like the lowest valleys possible.

[00:49:22] It's almost like they ran out of like, like creativity was a finite resource and they used

[00:49:28] it all on some of these boss fights.

[00:49:30] And then they're like, why don't you literally go gather sand for, for 10 minutes?

[00:49:35] Oh my God.

[00:49:36] I think putting together the boat or whatever was probably one of the most boring things

[00:49:43] I've done in a video game in a really long time.

[00:49:45] That might be one of the most boring three hour stretches of a game ever.

[00:49:50] I'm serious.

[00:49:51] Like I cannot believe a game that has so much cool shit in it has a stretch like that.

[00:49:55] It's just, it's just crazy.

[00:49:57] Yeah.

[00:49:58] We, you and I have talked in some discord server about fetch quests before and how like the

[00:50:06] word fetch quest basically describes everything you do in a, in a video game.

[00:50:11] But there's a pejorative way to talk about like certain types where there is nothing to it.

[00:50:18] There is nothing.

[00:50:19] There is no nuance.

[00:50:20] There is no surprise.

[00:50:21] There is no, uh, strategy.

[00:50:24] It is literally just go get this thing and come back and give it to them and they'll give

[00:50:29] you 200 gold or whatever.

[00:50:30] And then you're done.

[00:50:31] There is no story.

[00:50:33] There is no subversion.

[00:50:34] It's just that.

[00:50:36] And final fantasy 16 has that.

[00:50:38] And so like you get through the coolest boss fight you've done.

[00:50:44] Like some of these were like, they reminded me of when I first played God of war on the

[00:50:48] PS2 and I was like, holy shit, I've never seen a game have this kind of spectacle before.

[00:50:54] And then I never, I was never wowed by spectacle in a video game until final fantasy 16 in the

[00:51:00] same way.

[00:51:01] Okay.

[00:51:02] And then like 10 minutes later, you talk to a character who's like, Hey, I need some,

[00:51:06] some wood go over here and get this wood.

[00:51:08] And you go over there, the wood sitting there, you pick it up, you take it back.

[00:51:11] And he's like, cool.

[00:51:13] Thank you.

[00:51:13] Here's a hundred gold.

[00:51:14] And that's it.

[00:51:15] There's, there's nothing else to it.

[00:51:18] You know what also kind of makes that stuff suck too, is that I think all the like nuts

[00:51:24] and bolts, like role playing stuff in final fantasy 16 kind of sucks like equipment

[00:51:29] and like weapons and stuff like that.

[00:51:32] Like all that stuff just like, isn't very good.

[00:51:35] And I suppose it doesn't necessarily have to be, but it also like it then don't make me

[00:51:42] do these quests where I get like a hundred gold so I can go buy it like some other shitty

[00:51:46] thing that doesn't do a whole lot for me.

[00:51:48] Like I, you know, like maybe I wouldn't have minded so much if that gold was actually useful,

[00:51:52] but it's not.

[00:51:54] Like think about, think about like the old final fantasy games, like from, I don't know,

[00:52:01] from 10 and before you, you go to it or like, you know, think of the most classic JRPG you

[00:52:07] can think of in your head.

[00:52:08] You go to a new town, you go check out the item shop, you buy the new sword, the new armor,

[00:52:13] the new shield, you equip all of that stuff.

[00:52:16] There's no thought to it.

[00:52:17] It's just, you get to the town, you buy the new stuff.

[00:52:20] You, I'm playing Octopath Traveler too right now.

[00:52:22] And that's, that's what I do when I get to a new town.

[00:52:24] I, I check the shop.

[00:52:26] Hey, they got a new sword.

[00:52:27] I'll buy that.

[00:52:27] I'll equip it.

[00:52:28] There's no thought to it.

[00:52:30] 16 has that too, but that's in combination with 16, like basically not having RPG mechanics

[00:52:37] worth, you know, engaging your brain with.

[00:52:39] Right.

[00:52:40] So it makes it feel worse when like everything else that looks like it's going to be a classic

[00:52:45] RPG mechanic really isn't.

[00:52:49] And so then you're like, Hey, wait, this weapon thing, this is actually pretty boring too.

[00:52:54] And this, you know, I'm gathering all these materials.

[00:52:57] Why am I gathering materials?

[00:52:58] What am I, what am I going to do with all these things?

[00:53:00] Like those things start to feel worse, I think, because every other part of what you

[00:53:05] think would be an RPG system really isn't.

[00:53:09] Yeah, I agree with that.

[00:53:11] And you know, I love Octopath Traveler too.

[00:53:13] And the first one as well.

[00:53:14] And that kind of very simple RPG stuff, buy new sword, get new armor.

[00:53:19] You've really feel the upgrade though.

[00:53:21] That's the whole point of it in Dragon Quest.

[00:53:22] When you get new equipment, you feel so powerful.

[00:53:25] You don't feel that in Final Fantasy 16.

[00:53:28] So you can have that very, very simple, like RPG, like equipment stuff.

[00:53:33] If you feel the boost, you don't feel it in that game.

[00:53:36] Yeah.

[00:53:37] Yeah.

[00:53:37] So like, I get the new swords because I, because they're there.

[00:53:41] Like you never, you never get to the blacksmith and he's like, Hey, I got a sword upgrade for

[00:53:46] you, but Oh, it looks like you're missing one of the materials.

[00:53:49] I always had the materials.

[00:53:51] It was just like a very standard, like, okay, let me go get the new sword that does, you

[00:53:56] know, plus 10 damage over the old sword.

[00:53:59] But enemies are still going to take, you know, two staggers to beat in combat.

[00:54:05] My new sword doesn't feel better than the old sword.

[00:54:07] You're right.

[00:54:08] Yeah.

[00:54:08] It's just, that's, that's the unfortunate part.

[00:54:11] So just basically don't make us do that.

[00:54:13] Just almost make it like Zelda where like you get a couple sword upgrades throughout the

[00:54:18] game and that's kind of it, right?

[00:54:20] Just do it that way.

[00:54:21] I feel like that would have been better.

[00:54:22] Yeah.

[00:54:23] You know, instead of this game is, yeah, this game's confused by like trying to be an

[00:54:30] action game and an RPG and it like the confusion doesn't make any sense to me because the other

[00:54:37] team, the other final fantasy team at square Enix is making the best action RPG combat that's

[00:54:43] ever been made.

[00:54:44] It's like, they don't, it's like they didn't share ideas about like what this is supposed

[00:54:48] to be.

[00:54:49] Like this team was afraid to just to jettison the RPG stuff because it was clear they wanted

[00:54:55] to make a, a more, you know, devil may cry type action game.

[00:55:00] Yeah.

[00:55:01] But they, they were like, people are going to be really mad if it's not an RPG, but then

[00:55:05] everyone started playing the game and they're like, Hey, this isn't an RPG.

[00:55:08] Like people are going to figure it out.

[00:55:10] So like if there's a final fantasy 16 to I either, I hope they either like fully commit

[00:55:17] in that direction or commit back toward that, like hybrid of action and RPG.

[00:55:23] Like this middle ground doesn't really help either side.

[00:55:27] I don't think.

[00:55:28] Yeah.

[00:55:28] I actually, I kind of wrote that down at the end, but yeah, I let's actually, it's funny

[00:55:33] that you said that because I was thinking like, if there is a final fantasy 16 to, would

[00:55:37] you give a shit?

[00:55:38] It sounds like the answer is yes, because I would give a shit too.

[00:55:41] I would want them to revisit this.

[00:55:42] I actually, I mean, we've been doing a bit of complaining here, but I do really like this

[00:55:46] game overall.

[00:55:47] So I, I would love for them to try again and like perfect this and make this better.

[00:55:54] I think that would be great.

[00:55:55] I, I'm not sure with the same cast of characters, I'm not sure how they could, but well, actually

[00:56:00] I do have an idea of how they could one idea, but I like it's, it's interesting.

[00:56:06] So if it's like, this is a direct story sequel to 16, I wouldn't care because I didn't care

[00:56:12] about the main plot of final fantasy 16, at least where it went.

[00:56:15] Um, I was in at the beginning when it, when they were doing like the, you know, the, the,

[00:56:20] the class system and like the slave subplot and stuff like, I thought that was an interesting

[00:56:25] start.

[00:56:26] And then they just kind of forgot about it as it went along.

[00:56:29] They sure did.

[00:56:30] Uh, so like where it went, I wasn't super interested.

[00:56:33] I was into it at the beginning.

[00:56:35] I would be interested to see what they do from a mechanical standpoint, because like final

[00:56:42] fantasy 16 felt really good to play.

[00:56:45] It was really smooth and like the dodge felt great, uh, pulling off the parries and you

[00:56:50] know, all of that stuff that felt good to do.

[00:56:53] But we, we got into this weird thing in that game where for a combat system that looks as

[00:57:00] flashy as it does your, I always felt like I was doing the exact same thing in every single

[00:57:06] fight.

[00:57:06] I would use the exact same powers.

[00:57:10] Um, you had all these elemental attacks, but elements don't matter.

[00:57:14] They're just, they're, they're just colors in my game.

[00:57:16] Like nobody's weak to fire in final fantasy 16.

[00:57:20] And that was one of the things that like bugged me as a long time series fan.

[00:57:24] Cause they bring back all these enemies from past games and it's like, Hey, I know this

[00:57:29] thing.

[00:57:29] I knew, you know, bombs in final fantasy.

[00:57:31] If you hit them with fire, they explode every, in every game, not this game.

[00:57:36] Right.

[00:57:36] So it felt like stuff is weird.

[00:57:39] It is really weird.

[00:57:40] I, I, I didn't necessarily care for that myself.

[00:57:43] Yeah.

[00:57:43] I liked, like, I liked the game overall.

[00:57:47] Um, but I, I think I, I finished it feeling very like disappointed in the direction it

[00:57:53] took as it went along.

[00:57:56] But like, I, I cannot stress enough when final fantasy 16 is like at its best.

[00:58:01] It's so, so cool.

[00:58:04] It's like, I can't, you would have to see like my face.

[00:58:09] I'm smiling, thinking about fighting Bahamut or fight like the big Titan fight.

[00:58:13] Like those are awesome.

[00:58:14] It was so, it was so amazing.

[00:58:17] It's so good.

[00:58:18] See, that's the best stuff in the game, but probably right up there with me is that I like the characters

[00:58:24] a lot myself.

[00:58:26] Like I really liked most of the characters and I really love, I love drama.

[00:58:31] I love a mess.

[00:58:33] I love, I love political, uh, you know, intrigue, especially with like monarchy.

[00:58:39] I love that shit.

[00:58:41] Uh, I feel like I said this on the show that aired today as of this recording, but like,

[00:58:45] I love my favorite shows are like Mad Men and like Downton Abbey and shit like that.

[00:58:51] So like, I'm, I'm here for like a drama mess, right?

[00:58:54] Final fantasy 16 gives me that.

[00:58:57] And I, I love that shit.

[00:58:59] So, and, and that ties into like the mature rating because like, then you have all the

[00:59:03] sex and the, you know, underpinnings of it too.

[00:59:06] It's not just surface level.

[00:59:07] They really, they really get into it, you know?

[00:59:10] And I really, really appreciated that about this game and they really, Hey, if you're going

[00:59:15] to go that direction, if you're going to, if you're going to bump up that rating, uh,

[00:59:18] make use of it.

[00:59:19] And they made use of it.

[00:59:21] And I, I did appreciate that about it.

[00:59:23] It made it feel different.

[00:59:24] Not that final fancy always has to feel that way.

[00:59:28] I mean, if they went back to teen or whatever for, for final fancy sex 17, fine.

[00:59:33] Right.

[00:59:33] But I love that this game did that.

[00:59:36] Yeah.

[00:59:37] I liked the setup for like the world, the world building I thought was really fun.

[00:59:42] You know, the, the nations are built around this really, really important natural resource

[00:59:48] with these giant crystals and, uh, the crystals give, you know, the ability to use magic.

[00:59:53] So whoever has the crystals, your, your, your nation will be sitting pretty.

[00:59:58] And then you have these people that can use magic naturally, but they are somehow enslaved

[01:00:06] and like the lowest class citizens, which I thought was interesting.

[01:00:09] You know, like the most powerful people, those are the ones that are being controlled by the

[01:00:13] armies for their, you know, their conquest and things like that.

[01:00:16] Like I thought this setup was really interesting.

[01:00:19] So like they have the world building down.

[01:00:22] And then once the plot got moving for a while, I was really interested with like, you know,

[01:00:28] okay, so what's Clive going to do about this?

[01:00:30] Um, I was really interested.

[01:00:32] Like the demo for final fantasy 16 was like the best demo I've ever played.

[01:00:36] Nothing sent me to the buy button faster than the FF 16 button, uh, did.

[01:00:42] So all that stuff I thought was really, really good.

[01:00:46] And then like, it just, as it went along, it felt like they didn't know where to take that.

[01:00:51] So then you have like a shift to more well-worn, uh, paths.

[01:00:58] I did like the crystal stuff though.

[01:01:01] I did like that.

[01:01:01] These are like these monolithic, like, you know what I mean?

[01:01:05] Like these huge crystals, probably more than any final fantasy game outside of the first one.

[01:01:09] It is about the crystals.

[01:01:10] And I, there's something I liked about that.

[01:01:12] I, I, I don't know why, I guess maybe just cause it had been so long.

[01:01:15] It just felt different in a way, even though that's very, that's final fantasy as fuck.

[01:01:20] Basically.

[01:01:21] Yeah.

[01:01:21] I also, some people didn't like this, but I liked that.

[01:01:25] Like all the, they really drive home the point that like this world is all about magic.

[01:01:32] They're using a little water crystal to fill a glass full of water.

[01:01:35] Or like they use a fire crystal to light the fireplace.

[01:01:38] I like that stuff.

[01:01:38] I know some people thought that stuff was goofy.

[01:01:40] I thought that was cool.

[01:01:41] No, I thought it was cool.

[01:01:42] It's cool world building.

[01:01:43] And then like when you start messing with that and you see how it affects the people around the world,

[01:01:49] I thought that was like really ripe for really interesting story content.

[01:01:53] And they, the writers decided that it wasn't apparently because they had other ideas that I thought were much less interesting because I've played this game before.

[01:02:04] Yeah.

[01:02:05] I do really like final fantasy 16.

[01:02:07] I'm trying to, I don't know why I always want to rate stuff.

[01:02:10] I, I give it like a B, I guess.

[01:02:12] I usually give stuff later grades when I rate stuff on blue sky, give it a B.

[01:02:15] I can't remember where I put it in the last final fantasy tier list that I made just to stir the pot in discord servers.

[01:02:23] But it would be like a B or a C for me.

[01:02:26] Like I probably a B.

[01:02:28] Yeah.

[01:02:29] Like I enjoyed playing it.

[01:02:30] It's probably too long, but most games like this are, uh, and I, I didn't love where the story went, but I loved where the story began and some of the, the, the high peaks along the way.

[01:02:43] So yeah, I, I like this a lot more than, than 13 or 15.

[01:02:47] That's for sure.

[01:02:48] Oh my God.

[01:02:49] Yeah.

[01:02:49] I did.

[01:02:50] Again, I do want to stress.

[01:02:51] I do really like the characters.

[01:02:52] I, I did like all of them and I liked the way they were depicted and the way most of the stuff played out.

[01:02:58] Again, maybe the plot isn't like the absolute best, but I liked the characters enough and the other stuff where I just kind of, yeah.

[01:03:05] Okay.

[01:03:05] This isn't really necessarily wrap up all the things that I wanted to see.

[01:03:08] But, um, I also really liked, um, the epilogue, the very, very final scene.

[01:03:17] Hmm.

[01:03:18] Yeah.

[01:03:18] I did like, I liked that.

[01:03:20] I, um, maybe, maybe after this over, I'll tell you my, uh, kooky fan theory about it, but I really did like that last scene.

[01:03:28] But yeah, Final Fantasy 16, pretty good.

[01:03:30] Definitely not perfect.

[01:03:31] I have some kind of odds and ends here to wrap up since we kind of talked about all the games, the main ones, but I guess we can just talk about these as long or as short as we want to.

[01:03:57] Yeah.

[01:03:57] I did want to mention that, like, there's been a lot of talk about Square Enix sales numbers lately, like Rebirth.

[01:04:04] I don't know at last count, maybe like a few million.

[01:04:06] I'm sure they were expecting more.

[01:04:09] Right?

[01:04:09] Yeah, I'm sure they were.

[01:04:12] Um, I, I always wonder cause, cause they, they're, it's like a meme now that they come out and they say like, this game didn't live up to our expectations.

[01:04:20] Yeah.

[01:04:21] And I, I've started to wonder if like that quote, our expectations is not necessarily like their projections, but more like their budget.

[01:04:33] Like this game didn't make back all the money we spent and then all the other profit that we need to call it a huge success.

[01:04:41] Um, I think, I think the first time I encountered this was damn near 10 years ago when they published the Tomb Raider 2013.

[01:04:48] I feel like they said that about that game and it sold like 5 million copies or whatever in six months.

[01:04:53] And it was like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[01:04:55] You just sold like, you know what I mean?

[01:04:56] It's just like, nobody told you to spend $3 zillion on this game.

[01:05:00] Like, sorry, but like, come on, man.

[01:05:03] Yeah.

[01:05:04] They, so they, the budgets are obviously huge for these games and you know, they, the, as a corporation, they have their targets that they set, whether they're realistic or whether it's a game.

[01:05:18] It's just like, we're drawing this up on the graph.

[01:05:21] This is what's going to please everybody.

[01:05:22] If we make this much money and anything below that, then they just come out with that little quote in their shareholder meetings that this didn't meet our expectations with no context for what that actually means.

[01:05:34] As far as like, you know, rebirth goes and 16, like they're shooting themselves in the foot by not putting them on PC, not putting them on, you know, whatever.

[01:05:45] They don't want to put it on Xbox or whatever, but like they're not doing themselves any favors by ignoring PC with these things and then complaining that not enough people bought the games.

[01:05:56] It's like, well, what the fuck did you think was going to happen?

[01:05:58] Like, yeah, I think part of the problem is like, I feel like, I think Sony bankrolled this, this remake project.

[01:06:06] So like, yeah, that doesn't preclude PC.

[01:06:08] Obviously they probably should already, the rebirth should already be on there.

[01:06:12] But like, if it's Sony's bill, then it's obviously not going to be on Xbox.

[01:06:16] And what would Xbox do for them anyway, these days?

[01:06:19] Right.

[01:06:19] So that's less of an issue than like them putting like the PS five is like sold fairly well at this point.

[01:06:28] Like it's been going up and up and up each year as the PS five has been more available, but it's still not like everyone who might want to play this has a PS five already.

[01:06:38] And it's like, you know, there's a bunch of people who probably made the shift to either, you know, playing games on PC or like, I know people who like don't have a PS five, but they have a steam deck.

[01:06:51] They'd love to play final fantasy seven rebirth on a steam deck, but it's like, they're just not interested.

[01:06:58] And then they act all surprised like, oh, maybe this PlayStation exclusivity is not the best way.

[01:07:04] And it's like, well, yeah, like you're ignoring, you're ignoring like hundreds of millions of gamers on steam by not putting the game there.

[01:07:12] I think also like PlayStation just has shitty attach rates.

[01:07:16] Like they are not Nintendo.

[01:07:18] It's not like a situation where you can sell seven or 8 million copies of Mario Kart 8 on Wii U to like 14 million people, you know, like they will Sony or Microsoft will never have that kind of like panache, you know, no matter what game it is.

[01:07:34] So I think they have to realize like, yeah, Nintendo, it doesn't matter if Nintendo hardware sales, they're going to push those fucking units, right?

[01:07:42] Sony can't and square can't really do that.

[01:07:46] Sony can't and yeah, there's there's that and then there's just like, you know, FF seven rebirth is the the second in a series and like, I would assume it's going to sell less than the first one just because some people are going to play the first and drop off.

[01:08:03] Some people probably played the first one just out of curiosity, not like giant FF seven fans.

[01:08:09] And then they're like, hey, that was all right.

[01:08:10] And then like, are you gonna play the next one?

[01:08:12] Yeah, I don't know.

[01:08:13] Like there's gonna be people like that.

[01:08:15] And then with with 16, like the main series of Final Fantasy other than 14 has been a mess for a long time.

[01:08:26] So like, are you gonna blame people for not putting faith in Final Fantasy 16?

[01:08:31] Like I, I bought it because of how good the demo was.

[01:08:34] Before that, I was not sold on playing it.

[01:08:37] Right.

[01:08:37] But there's a bunch of people who probably didn't play the demo or they're like, yeah,

[01:08:42] I bought 13 and 15 and didn't like either of those games.

[01:08:45] So I'm not buying 16.

[01:08:47] Like there's gonna be people like that.

[01:08:48] People, yeah, people have to realize that because, and obviously this is an extreme example, but like, it's why the Dreamcast failed.

[01:08:55] It was an incredible system.

[01:08:57] Nobody was going to trust Sega anymore.

[01:08:59] It didn't matter how good that system was.

[01:09:01] They already fucked up with 32X and Saturn and all this other stuff.

[01:09:04] And like all these expensive add-ons and just unfocused bullshit.

[01:09:07] But by the time Dreamcast came out, people were done with Sega and I, nobody could blame them.

[01:09:13] You know?

[01:09:14] So like everyone can now say, oh yeah, the Dreamcast is a great system, but they deserve to, it was destined to fail from the start.

[01:09:20] Now, obviously Final Fantasy 16 isn't a failure, but I'm just saying that like, yeah, when you have like some bum entries, people don't forget.

[01:09:28] Yeah, yeah, that's in my eye, that's a relevant, you know, thing to think about when thinking about like, it's exclusive and people may not trust what you're doing with the series.

[01:09:41] And there's a bunch of old school Final Fantasy fans who are like, Final Fantasy shouldn't be an action game.

[01:09:46] I'm not playing this.

[01:09:47] And, you know, that might be a loud minority, but those are still people who are not buying the game.

[01:09:52] I think that shit is so silly, dog.

[01:09:55] We've been here for 10 years.

[01:09:56] What is Final Fantasy 15 then?

[01:09:59] What is, I mean, like what, what is, what is this Final Fantasy 7 remake and rebirth?

[01:10:04] Like we have been here.

[01:10:05] It was so weird when that conversation came up around 16 because I was like, what do you think we've been doing?

[01:10:11] Like, I don't know, man.

[01:10:12] I thought that was silly.

[01:10:14] Yeah, there's, there's a lot of, um, there's a lot of different ways that Final Fantasy has been expressed since they stopped doing turn-based combat.

[01:10:22] They basically done every type of combat system since then.

[01:10:25] So what do you think is going to happen?

[01:10:28] I got it.

[01:10:29] Well, on that topic, I got to ask you about one thing and it is Stranger of Paradise.

[01:10:34] Final Fantasy origin.

[01:10:36] You are the only person I know who likes this game.

[01:10:39] So I want you to quickly just tell me why you do.

[01:10:43] You have to tell me because I know you love this game and I thought it was repellent.

[01:10:47] So please tell me what you see in this.

[01:10:51] Okay.

[01:10:51] So I started playing it because of the, the memes, because of what I saw of Jack and, uh,

[01:10:59] how, you know, you saw that trailer and it was like chaos, chaos.

[01:11:04] I'm going to kill chaos.

[01:11:05] We're on a mission to kill chaos.

[01:11:07] And you're like, this can't be what the whole game is.

[01:11:09] And then I found out like, it actually is what the whole game is.

[01:11:12] And I'm like, I thought that was, I thought that was fun.

[01:11:16] Um, the scene where he like, like literally turns on an iPad and there's like a dollar store

[01:11:22] Lincoln park song playing.

[01:11:24] And he walks out of like the Queens Royal chamber or whatever.

[01:11:28] That's funny to me.

[01:11:30] I want, I want to see that.

[01:11:31] But like the reason that I like shill this game is because it's not a meme game with no substance

[01:11:39] to it.

[01:11:40] It's actually a very good action game, like action RPG.

[01:11:43] It has a really good job system.

[01:11:46] And like, you know, depending on what your favorite final fantasy games are, you may love

[01:11:51] a job system.

[01:11:51] If you're FF five or tactics or something like that, uh, this one has a really good job

[01:11:57] system.

[01:11:58] It's really fun to try out different jobs.

[01:12:00] It's made by team ninja.

[01:12:02] So it's got like that, that Neo esque, uh, like fluidity to the combat.

[01:12:07] I thought it was just really fun.

[01:12:09] Um, and then like the story is I, an entertaining ride.

[01:12:14] I, I will say, it sounds really weird to say.

[01:12:17] I will say the main reason I'm interested in playing final fantasy one is because I

[01:12:24] liked the story and stranger paradise so much.

[01:12:28] Yep.

[01:12:29] That is fucking weird.

[01:12:30] It is weird.

[01:12:31] But like the thing that, the thing that gets drowned out.

[01:12:34] And so like anyone listening to this, what I, I hope you take away from this.

[01:12:38] Cause you probably already know about Jack and chaos.

[01:12:41] The thing that gets drowned out in all the memes about chaos is that this is a team ninja

[01:12:45] action RPG and it's really good as an action RPG.

[01:12:50] And like, no one talks about that side of the game.

[01:12:52] They just talk about chaos.

[01:12:54] Yeah.

[01:12:54] I think I just can't get past that.

[01:12:56] And like, look, I don't really, I'm not a huge team ninja person anyway.

[01:13:00] I really, their stuff just doesn't do it for me.

[01:13:03] So maybe I was just kind of predestined to find this game repellent, but like, and then

[01:13:07] you add all the, the, the, the cut scenes and the attitude.

[01:13:11] I just, Oh my fucking God.

[01:13:12] I just, I'm unable.

[01:13:14] Yeah.

[01:13:14] I guess it's funny to a degree, but maybe I don't need to actually like play it.

[01:13:18] Maybe like a 30 second clip of some stupid cut scene is good enough for me.

[01:13:23] Right.

[01:13:23] Like just watch all the Jack chaos cut scene compilations on YouTube or whatever, like that

[01:13:29] stuff to me is entertaining in the same way that like, I think metal gear solid stories

[01:13:35] are entertaining and the characters in those games are really stupid, but they're fun.

[01:13:40] Metal gear rising revengeance, uh, wanted dead.

[01:13:44] What I've seen from that game.

[01:13:45] Like there's like this part of me that just really likes like these really campy, uh, characters

[01:13:52] and storylines.

[01:13:54] And Jack is like an extreme example of that, but I think Jack is really funny.

[01:13:58] So, I mean, I love like Sonic adventure games and shit, right?

[01:14:02] Like I'm, I'm no stranger to camp, right?

[01:14:04] Like I'm, I'm totally, I'm totally here for cheesy shit.

[01:14:07] Maybe that's just not my brand of it, but yeah, I, I did.

[01:14:10] I did giggle when I found, I thought it was a joke with the, with the iPod and the

[01:14:14] headphone.

[01:14:15] I thought it, I literally thought someone just made that.

[01:14:18] I was like, I cannot believe this is real.

[01:14:20] I cannot believe it.

[01:14:21] Yeah, it is real.

[01:14:23] Um, have you ever played the pixel remasters?

[01:14:26] I'm, I'm going to, cause like I said, I have, I have never played five or six or the original

[01:14:30] three or anything.

[01:14:31] So I'm definitely going to do that eventually.

[01:14:33] But have you?

[01:14:34] Uh, no, I haven't.

[01:14:35] I am irrationally.

[01:14:37] Uh, I irrationally dislike the way they look.

[01:14:40] Okay.

[01:14:41] Um, the pixel remasters are glow ups of like one of the worst graphical changes in like

[01:14:51] any, you know, shift between one version of a game to another.

[01:14:56] Like the difference between final fantasy six on the super Nintendo final fantasy three

[01:15:01] on the super Nintendo versus the final fantasy six mobile port is a crime.

[01:15:08] Yeah.

[01:15:08] And then the pixel remaster is a like slight walk back of the changes they made in the mobile

[01:15:14] version.

[01:15:15] But it's not like, I, I think the super Nintendo version looks way better than the pixel remaster.

[01:15:22] Yeah.

[01:15:22] I think if I'm going to play final fantasy six, I'll just bust out my SNES classic.

[01:15:26] I feel like that's what I'm going to do for that.

[01:15:28] Cause that, well, that's kind of the, I'm not like a purist about, Oh, I have to play

[01:15:31] the original original version.

[01:15:32] But in this case, I think I want to, you know, but that doesn't preclude me being interested

[01:15:36] in pixel remaster.

[01:15:37] I'll probably play it sometime, but yeah.

[01:15:39] If they ever get cheap enough, which, you know, square, but yeah, like you can buy them

[01:15:44] all a cart.

[01:15:45] Like I see the FF one pixel remaster go on sale for 10 bucks.

[01:15:49] Uh, so that's the only one where I'm considering playing it because I've, I want to try this,

[01:15:57] the regular NES version of FF one, but I've heard that it's just like really,

[01:16:02] really buggy and, and weird.

[01:16:04] Uh, just because of that, I might try the, the pixel remaster.

[01:16:08] The other ones are out of the question.

[01:16:10] I'm not, I'll play the game boy advanced versions.

[01:16:12] I played the PSP version of FF four.

[01:16:15] I'm not against emulating.

[01:16:17] So like, they're not going to sell the version of the game that I want to play.

[01:16:21] I will emulate it with no issues whatsoever.

[01:16:24] So yeah, no problem.

[01:16:26] Yeah.

[01:16:26] Cause you can't, you can't get that version, right?

[01:16:28] So it's like you, how are you, how else are you going to play it?

[01:16:30] Um, you've never played final fantasy 14, right?

[01:16:33] Just for the record.

[01:16:34] Never.

[01:16:34] I've never played any MMO.

[01:16:36] Okay.

[01:16:36] Yeah.

[01:16:37] Um, I played like the first year or so of like base of realm reborn, like when it came

[01:16:42] back, not like the original 2010 version, but, uh, and I liked it.

[01:16:46] I never, that's like the only MMO I've ever played either.

[01:16:48] And I really, I got into it.

[01:16:50] I didn't get hella into it.

[01:16:51] Obviously I'm not still playing it, but like I did enjoy my time with it.

[01:16:54] Mm-hmm.

[01:16:55] Yeah.

[01:16:55] I'm, I'm very interested in like all the people I trust who've played a significant

[01:17:02] amount of it say that like, it has some of the best story content and some of the best

[01:17:07] characters and, and particularly, uh, the villain or one of the villains and in the, one of the

[01:17:13] expansions, I don't really know how it works, but like people have said that all of that

[01:17:18] stuff is like as good as anything else in the series.

[01:17:21] Maybe even some of the best story content, it's just like, you know, I'm doing the podcast

[01:17:26] the way that I do.

[01:17:27] I, I can't, I would have to like restructure my entire thing to play final fantasy 14.

[01:17:33] So I just like, I I'm interested, but I'm getting, where am I going to get a spare 800

[01:17:38] hours to get to the stuff that people say is really good.

[01:17:41] It's a lot now.

[01:17:42] And, and like people have told me the same, I've all, like I said, I only played a room

[01:17:47] reborn.

[01:17:47] I didn't think the story in that was very good, but everyone tells me all the expansions

[01:17:51] have like really good stuff.

[01:17:52] And I know a lot about that stuff.

[01:17:54] Cause I have a friend who plays like religiously this whole time.

[01:17:57] So I pretty much know what happens and it does sound cool.

[01:17:59] It's just that like, I don't, again, I don't have a spare ball.

[01:18:03] I don't know.

[01:18:04] Like you said, 800 hours to really, really do it.

[01:18:08] Um, I think the only other thing I have on the docket here is like, you know, how do

[01:18:12] you feel now going forward?

[01:18:14] Like if we're looking forward to like a final fantasy 17, are you still, yeah, it's been

[01:18:18] kind of up and down, right?

[01:18:19] You didn't, you hated 15, 16 has, you know, highs and lows or whatever.

[01:18:24] Um, you mostly like remake and rebirth.

[01:18:26] How would you, how are you feeling going forward right now?

[01:18:29] Final fantasy in general, like a, whether it's a final fantasy 17 or just even like remake

[01:18:34] part three or whatnot.

[01:18:36] Yeah.

[01:18:36] Yeah.

[01:18:36] So remake part three, which I'm calling reloaded until they, uh, until they announced the name.

[01:18:43] I'm, I'm really interested in that.

[01:18:45] That'll be day one.

[01:18:46] I can't wait.

[01:18:47] Um, it's mostly because like, I'm going to get the answers that I want.

[01:18:51] I want to see where they're going with all these, these new galaxy brain ideas that they

[01:18:55] have for the story.

[01:18:57] I also know it's going to be a really good play experience.

[01:19:00] Like, you know, the combat's going to be awesome.

[01:19:02] I can't wait for that.

[01:19:03] So I'm so excited for that.

[01:19:05] Final fantasy 17 will be like, I'll obviously be really interested to see what they do.

[01:19:11] Like, are they going to go more in an action direction?

[01:19:14] Are they going to do something different?

[01:19:16] Like I'm kind of up for whatever they decide to do and then I will critique it as it is.

[01:19:22] Um, but I'm interested.

[01:19:23] Um, yeah.

[01:19:24] So you don't, so you don't have any like rant, like, oh, I feel like final fantasy 17

[01:19:28] is going to be this, but I guess how can any of us?

[01:19:30] Cause final fantasy, you know, I think that's the thing I like.

[01:19:33] About final fantasy the most, whether I hate the game or I love it.

[01:19:36] Final fantasy is ungovernable.

[01:19:38] They do whatever the fuck they want.

[01:19:40] And I actually really appreciate that.

[01:19:42] They could after final fantasy seven, they could have just, you know what I mean?

[01:19:45] Stuck to the, okay, this is what's popular.

[01:19:48] No, they made final fantasy eight, which I hate.

[01:19:51] And like, you know, they didn't care.

[01:19:53] They just went forward with this thing.

[01:19:55] No, this is the game we're making now.

[01:19:57] Right.

[01:19:57] And I love when companies have the balls to do that.

[01:20:00] And square still has the balls to do that with final fantasy.

[01:20:02] And I, I do appreciate that.

[01:20:04] A hundred percent.

[01:20:05] It's like you, you know, what's the dragon quest 12, I guess is the next main dragon quest

[01:20:12] game.

[01:20:12] You already have a decent idea of what dragon quest 12 is going to be because dragon quest

[01:20:17] doesn't change like that.

[01:20:19] Yeah.

[01:20:19] Uh, they, they might, you know, they might introduce some new things.

[01:20:23] It'll have a new story or whatever, but like you, you probably already know what the combat's

[01:20:27] going to be like, you know, the tone, you know, that kind of stuff pretty well.

[01:20:31] I think.

[01:20:31] Yep.

[01:20:32] Final fantasy is interesting because like you said, like there's going to be a Moogle,

[01:20:37] there's probably going to be Chocobos.

[01:20:39] That's all we can really say confidently in 17.

[01:20:43] And I'm, I'm always interested when they're like, okay, we finished.

[01:20:48] It's kind of like, um, like a standup comedian, like does a special and then just throw away

[01:20:53] all that material.

[01:20:53] And they're like, all right, everything's new, new jokes and final fantasies like that.

[01:20:58] And I'm interested to see what they do.

[01:21:01] Even if like, I'm starting to think a little bit more about like, um, I don't particularly

[01:21:07] love Yoshi P's, uh, directed game design.

[01:21:13] Like I don't think the quests are interesting.

[01:21:16] I don't think the dungeons are interesting like that stuff.

[01:21:20] And I assume it's the same in 14 because it's an MMO and MMOs feel like they're always

[01:21:25] like that.

[01:21:26] Yeah.

[01:21:26] Or like from the outside looking in, you know, correct me if I'm talking out of my ass.

[01:21:30] I felt that way about 14.

[01:21:32] So the dungeons are like as good as they can be for that genre.

[01:21:35] I feel, you know?

[01:21:37] Yeah.

[01:21:38] So like there's a little bit of like apprehension there, but I will be interested in whatever

[01:21:43] they do.

[01:21:44] Okay.

[01:21:45] Yeah.

[01:21:45] Oh, I didn't.

[01:21:46] Okay.

[01:21:46] One last thing.

[01:21:47] I did not want to get off there before saying this, I think, cause you said galaxy brain earlier

[01:21:51] and I think final fantasy seven rebirth music is the most galaxy brain ass.

[01:21:57] Like, I think the music in that game is insane, insanely good.

[01:22:03] Like it is so impressive on a level that I can't even describe.

[01:22:08] Like if you haven't played the game out there, I don't even know what to say.

[01:22:11] Like, if you have played the game, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

[01:22:14] Like I, I wasn't, I was so thoroughly impressed.

[01:22:18] I just, you know, I could do a whole podcast on just that.

[01:22:21] We did a spoiler final fantasy seven rebirth podcast earlier this year.

[01:22:26] We only spent 15 minutes on the music out of like two and a half hours and we could

[01:22:30] have went way longer.

[01:22:31] I think the music of the game is insane.

[01:22:33] I think, you know, if there's one consistently great thing about final fantasy, it's the music

[01:22:38] in all the games we've talked about.

[01:22:40] We only really talked about it in, you know, just mentioning that Yoko Shimomura doesn't

[01:22:45] miss the one talking about 15, but I love the music in seven remake and rebirth.

[01:22:50] Like the way they brought, like, it's not Uematsu anymore, but the way they brought these

[01:22:56] classic Uematsu compositions to life and the use of, you know, light motif and things throughout

[01:23:02] the games, like FF seven rebirth is like, if you like light motif, like rebirth is going

[01:23:08] to kill you.

[01:23:09] You're going to overdose on it.

[01:23:10] Like it's going to, it's, but it's like incredible the way that it's done.

[01:23:14] And then 16, I thought the music was awesome in that game too.

[01:23:17] Me too.

[01:23:17] And everything I've heard from the music in 14 is really fucking good.

[01:23:21] What's like, uh, so Ken is the, the new 14 and 16 composer.

[01:23:26] He's incredible.

[01:23:27] So he's really good.

[01:23:28] He's so good.

[01:23:29] And he can do a lot of various stuff.

[01:23:31] And I think that's what I appreciated about, uh, rebirth is that like, yeah, you will get

[01:23:36] your familiar themes in different ways, and then you'll have this whole bevy of new music

[01:23:41] that is just, we kind of, I wouldn't say back and forth about it, but we kind of laughed.

[01:23:47] I really liked the Lion King ass gun Gaga music.

[01:23:51] And you were like, get this shit out of here.

[01:23:53] I hated that so much.

[01:23:55] I loved it.

[01:23:56] It was so, because I think of final fantasy seven is so nineties cause it is.

[01:24:01] And like, that's exactly the kind of music you would have.

[01:24:03] Like if they had done like red book audio back then instead of MIDI or whatever, it's

[01:24:07] just like, Oh my God, this is so ridiculous.

[01:24:10] I love it.

[01:24:11] It is super diverse.

[01:24:13] Like there's a whole lot of different stuff in the, the seven remake and rebirth soundtracks.

[01:24:19] They made an entire vocal theme for a dog side quest, man.

[01:24:24] Like that's crazy.

[01:24:27] It's nuts that they were on some shit and I appreciated it.

[01:24:31] Well, I think I'm out of things, Dave.

[01:24:33] Thank you for joining me to talk about a final fantasy.

[01:24:35] Thanks for being the brain today.

[01:24:38] Oh, well, thank you for inviting me.

[01:24:40] And, um, hopefully, I mean, we started out pretty rough on my end talking about 15, but,

[01:24:46] um, it's, it's just a really interesting series to like, you know, especially when you lay

[01:24:51] it out like this and where we obviously skipped over 14 cause neither of us played a ton of

[01:24:56] it, but, um, it's interesting when you lay it out like this and be like, what has final

[01:25:01] fantasy been doing in the last 10, 15 years to, to look at this stuff and see these like

[01:25:08] two diverging paths, I think.

[01:25:10] And like, what's really going to be cool is after they're done with the FF seven remake

[01:25:14] series, like what's that team going to do?

[01:25:16] Yeah.

[01:25:16] Are they going to remake another one?

[01:25:18] Are they going to go work on kingdom hearts for whatever?

[01:25:21] I don't know, but like, uh, it's, it's going to be interesting to see.

[01:25:24] Cause I don't think they're just going to do like the main series and the MMO.

[01:25:28] Like, I think they're going to work on some other side stuff too.

[01:25:31] So it's cool to lay it out like this and, and see kind of in this chronological order

[01:25:37] what they've been doing with the series and, uh, just kind of going through these has been

[01:25:42] a good time.

[01:25:42] So thank you.

[01:25:43] Yeah, no problem.

[01:25:44] I'm, I'm glad to talk about this with you.

[01:25:46] Uh, maybe when a final fantasy seven, uh, remake part three, would you say reloaded?

[01:25:52] Yeah.

[01:25:54] I'm going to start saying that too.

[01:25:56] Maybe we can have a chat about that, but, uh,

[01:25:58] thanks for joining me.

[01:25:59] Everyone check the description of this podcast to find our links on social media and see you

[01:26:03] next time.

[01:26:04] Bye.

[01:26:04] We'll catch you next time.

[01:26:06] This has been fine time.