The Loveseat Toilet | The Big Deal

[00:00:00] Hello, Party. People, it's your boy Dre once again.

[00:00:29] I almost said once again the mix master. I want to say I want to give myself a shitty

[00:00:36] DJ name from the 80s Steve mix master.

[00:00:39] Mixed master. What do you mix? Oh, you know what I mix in Kevin.

[00:00:44] Oh, I want to speak DJ name to now. Okay. Yeah. Well, I can't steal mix from you.

[00:00:53] I want to make like mix somewhere in there though. Okay, like make make man DJ make man.

[00:01:01] Yeah, I mean, I don't have anything better off the top.

[00:01:06] But make big bananas doesn't like do any let me let me think on this and if I come up

[00:01:12] with the brain wave, I'll get back to you. Okay, perfect. Sounds good. Anyone out there

[00:01:16] want to give us DJ names they can. What about Mick Kevbot? Kevbot. Mick Kevbot. I don't

[00:01:24] know, feels a little feels a little crunchy in the mouth, I think. You think I can even

[00:01:29] make it to a one hit wonder. Oh yeah. Fucking some mix of some popular ballad, some house

[00:01:38] mix by DJ Kevbot. So I think I got there from Sir Mix a lot. Kevbot mix a lot.

[00:01:44] Kevbot. Sir Kevbot DJ sir DJ it's like a double almost a double entendre. It's like

[00:01:51] a double on a riffic DJ sir Kevbot. We're gonna have to iron this out. Yeah, well, yeah

[00:01:58] out there if you could think of anything better about Steve Steers at us and embarrassment.

[00:02:03] But he's gonna stop staring at us and embarrassment because he's going to talk about his game

[00:02:07] first. I insist this week. Yeah, DJ stuff was out of my purview but you know, it's kind

[00:02:14] of weird. I'd really was covering his steam deck last time so I thought, man, I got

[00:02:19] time to blow through my backlog a bit. I mean, I'll pull out Dragon Quest 11 and I'm

[00:02:24] gonna go through that and then the curator. I'm gonna pass away a few days into that.

[00:02:29] So this is that's my fault. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to do that. I really didn't fucking

[00:02:33] mean to do that. Whoops. But uh, and I made a big stride in that and I think I have a big

[00:02:40] conversation. I want to have tangentially to that later but the real thief of my time

[00:02:47] and you know, outside of pesky real life obligations was Splatoon 3 side order. What the hell

[00:02:53] was that? Side order is the part of the Splatoon 3 DLC pack that matters. You might recall

[00:02:59] the first part releasing over a year ago in the first not on that one direct and we just

[00:03:04] rolled our eyes when it was just make the city from Splatoon 1 appear in your hub.

[00:03:09] You do nothing different. It won't even bring back the online waiting games. I think we

[00:03:14] were all collectively like this is the dumbest DLC of all time. Well, if they could have

[00:03:20] almost had me if they brought back squid jump and the other online queue loading games

[00:03:26] with them but they didn't. None of us even like going to the city anyway because after

[00:03:31] playing the gameplay going back to that 30 frames a second ass city is like, oh god. No.

[00:03:38] So this makes up for it's a side story where we continue to follow agent aid from the

[00:03:46] second games DLC and a beginner friendly roguelike. There's the spire get your ass in the elevator

[00:03:54] stop off on each floor and get a thing and get the pallip off to go with it and you're

[00:03:57] dealing some money to spend in there. Oh, but if you eat it, oh there they all go. But

[00:04:02] oh, that's too bad. Take some of them uber bucks to spend on some permanent toggles. But

[00:04:08] you know, that's not 100% cut and dry either. Well, hold on. I have a question here. So

[00:04:14] is the gameplay like level up base and you get like a perk? Is it that type of rogue

[00:04:20] or is it where you just find stuff you find weapons and whatever laying around on the ground

[00:04:24] that type? You have to go up each time with each of the main weapons. So you're going to start

[00:04:31] off with a basic bitch loadout of main weapon side weapon and special you could swap out

[00:04:37] the sides and specials with vending machines as you go up but you got to hang on to your

[00:04:42] main the whole time and you got basically try and make your shit better as you go up

[00:04:48] or where we're with perks. You get a choice of three things to do on each floor of varying

[00:04:52] difficulty. Oh, okay. So I'm a hard course but to employer. I'll just take the hard

[00:04:57] route all the way. Well, that's a good way to get your ass kicked if you're just starting

[00:05:02] out and you haven't given yourself any real permabuffs yet. Secondly, you might not

[00:05:06] want the perks I know I've run a floor. Clearing the story requires you to play with

[00:05:11] all the weapons. And while you won't ever be offered something 100% useless to you

[00:05:16] the weapon you're holding, you may get something far too situational for your current loadout.

[00:05:22] Like, you know, if you're playing with a roller or a brush, you might not want the one

[00:05:26] that's given out the long range to tack boost. Right? That's second. So what kind of

[00:05:32] like okay, so you don't have to take a perk then you just have to like so say you don't

[00:05:36] want anything then what do you do? Just no, you have to pick something. It's never going

[00:05:42] to do that but it's not necessarily going to you might want to take the easy one because

[00:05:48] there's going to be something you might really need that to use on that weapon for.

[00:05:53] What's the incentive of doing hard then just for the perk or just to say you're a badass?

[00:05:58] Well, there's a separate set of small bucks you can use and they usually pile those out

[00:06:04] too. Your perks come in a set of colors and matching those up in a row also increases

[00:06:10] your score which gives you more of the big bucks for when you win or eat it. You'll be

[00:06:14] doing a lot of eating it in this game. There sounds a lot like football in the sense

[00:06:19] that I don't know that I would know what the hell is going on if I was watching it.

[00:06:23] Yeah, talking about it is a lot more complicated than actually playing it because you know, you

[00:06:30] might have no faith in your skills at all and you might want to put all of your buffs

[00:06:33] into the pearl drone to do the heavy drifting. Yeah, your pearl drone. You don't have the

[00:06:38] little Sam in it guy from the three's main game. You get a little drone that's based around

[00:06:45] pearl from Splatoon 2. Hey, it's a DJ. We somehow tied it back into DJ talk. Why pearl because

[00:06:51] she won, quote unquote, one in Splatoon 2? There's a storyline involving both of them.

[00:06:58] Okay, that's very exciting to hear honestly. Genuinely, that's great. And you will be needing

[00:07:06] the pearl drone to deal with Splatoon's take on the 1984 Apple ad that I like to keep

[00:07:14] bringing up on this show because I know I keep bringing it up, but it really is the best

[00:07:18] way to describe the aesthetic. You're fighting order because we voted against it in Splatoon

[00:07:24] 2 and it manifests familiar looking stuff and familiar and bleak looking grays and bleak

[00:07:29] looking rooms. And it makes you want to swing your giant dynamo roller at the giant monitor

[00:07:34] telling you to conform and everything is going to be the same. And I'm too upset that

[00:07:40] the children that make fan animations are too young to, you know, make that thing make

[00:07:45] that connection on zone. It's more fun to look at than I'm describing.

[00:07:49] I mean, we barely know what that is. I don't think a child has any chance. I feel like

[00:07:55] that ad was on forever or at least everyone talked about it forever until we didn't.

[00:07:59] Yeah, I think it's hit like kind of meme relevance by this point though.

[00:08:04] Has it really? Okay.

[00:08:06] I mean, I've definitely seen it around on the internet within the last like six months.

[00:08:11] I'm not saying it's super mainstream, but it's not like dead to the annals of history.

[00:08:18] Okay. Maybe it just happened seen as much as you guys. So right. Steve, you're talking

[00:08:24] about a Splatoon game you played by yourself. I don't like playing Splatoon by yourself.

[00:08:28] You're not supposed to be doing that, but there are fun goodies you could take back with

[00:08:32] you to the main game.

[00:08:34] Said nobody ever who says they don't play Splatoon by themselves. Oh, you know, no one's

[00:08:39] coming to Splatoon for the single player. I mean, I definitely, you know what? I feel

[00:08:45] fucking lied to by the way. Can I say can I air my grievance in the middle of your

[00:08:49] spiel? I'm sorry. When Splatoon 2 was coming out all I ever heard about the first one

[00:08:53] or the single player so good. Oh, it's so good. I can't. Splatoon 2 you're gonna have

[00:08:58] so much fun with it. It was fine. Octo almost had Octopath expansion. Octo expansion is way

[00:09:05] better, but like the Splatoon 2 basic bitch single player is fine. I wouldn't say it was

[00:09:11] worth that kind of hype. Oh, it's so good. Splatoon 3 is worth it. That shit is fantastic

[00:09:16] too. And not so much. I don't know how everyone got to that point either besides Wii U,

[00:09:23] L O L one centrone. Yeah. Anyway, goodies you get to take back. You get replica weapons when

[00:09:30] you clear the spire with each main weapon and if you really soak up the big outside money,

[00:09:36] you can get some fun accessories, decorations, banners and all that stuff you get to carry

[00:09:41] over to show off to your friends, including virtual boy goggles that you could strap onto

[00:09:46] your face. That's what my guy is wearing right now. At least I think they're kind of funny.

[00:09:51] They're like, I like to have my characters wear glasses and like, these are glasses at

[00:09:55] these counts. You like hats too? I've noticed. Can I say that about you? I can't. I can't

[00:10:02] have my characters wear hats and glasses in Splatoon 2. It's physically impossible for them.

[00:10:07] I'm just saying in general in character creators, the hat is very key for you. Yeah, hats and

[00:10:12] glasses. I don't know why. Yeah. So I don't know. Is this really for you? If you're looking

[00:10:17] for more Splatoon 3 single player things to do and or looking for some sort of rogue-like

[00:10:23] game, this might be for you. It's a satisfying loop. I couldn't put it the fuck down. Much like

[00:10:30] how OctoXperish's trappings made into a 3s campaign, I'm sort of hoping there's like a tower

[00:10:38] in Splatoon 4 for us to go do now because I felt that much was worth it. I had fun and

[00:10:46] I think, I'm not sure you'll probably like it. I don't know about Kevin.

[00:10:58] I swear to God when you put this in the notes, I really didn't think about how similar

[00:11:01] they were but I am going to talk about the rogue-like of all rogue-likes that Mystery Dungeon

[00:11:06] series in the form of Sheeran the Wanderer, the Mystery Dungeon of Serpent Quail Island.

[00:11:14] I am never saying that name again so I'm just going to call it Sheeran 6. Okay?

[00:11:18] I mean some more insight baseball, the notes do not like Serpent Quail at all. It's

[00:11:23] so desperately wants it to be two words. Oh God. I've been taking notes for an upcoming

[00:11:30] Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth show and I keep fighting with my phone every day to say material.

[00:11:37] It always wants to make it material and I just, it's like please iPhone. Please.

[00:11:44] Now me and the Android keyboard understand Pokemon has an accent over the E and whenever

[00:11:49] I type in a Pokemon's name okay we'll just go with that. That sounds like a Pokemon name.

[00:11:53] I won't correct you. iOS will do that. It'll put the thing over the E in Pokemon but yeah.

[00:12:00] The Mystery Dungeon of Serpent Quail Island. So yes I did again even though I promised

[00:12:04] I wouldn't say it. But just in case anyone doesn't know Sheeran the Wanderer is the longest

[00:12:11] running series of the traditional top down Roguelikes that is considered like basically

[00:12:18] the rock of like the Mystery Dungeon series. People are probably more familiar with like

[00:12:22] Pokemon Mystery Dungeon or Chocobo or whatever have you out there. Hi, it's me I'm people.

[00:12:29] Yes you are people and I am also people and those are the most well known variants but all

[00:12:36] of this shit started with Dragon Quest as most things do because the first Mystery Dungeon

[00:12:42] ever was a Roguelike for Super Famicom based off of Terneko the merchant from Dragon Warrior

[00:12:49] 4 if you will as it was called at the time. And there was a Japan only Mystery Dungeon

[00:12:55] game involving him a side game. And then Chonesoft after that was like well fuck that we're

[00:13:02] not paying this money to Enix how about we make our own characters and make our own Mystery

[00:13:06] Dungeon free of Dragon Quest and then that's us Sheeran the Wanderer is born. And then there

[00:13:11] was a second one for Nintendo 64 there was a third one for Wii etc the series has gone on.

[00:13:16] But we got the first Sheeran the Wanderer via the DS port in 2008. Now Steve did you play

[00:13:23] this one back then because Jesus Christ all of us all my friends group are playing this

[00:13:28] are like what the fuck is this? No I missed out on Sheeran the Wanderer 2008 I kept seeing it in

[00:13:34] the store but I am money was tight back then and I was like wait for it to drop and it never

[00:13:39] seemed to. No no Sega wasn't printing too many of those you know but yeah that was the we got

[00:13:45] the first one in America via the DS port and I played the shed out of that fell in love from there

[00:13:50] and as I said this is the sixth iteration of Sheeran the Wanderer. I'm gonna start with the bad first

[00:13:58] because I want to get out of the way because this game is fucking fantastic but I gotta say this

[00:14:03] first the graphics are terrible. Unacceptably poor really really bad graphics the textures are

[00:14:13] extremely muddy Steve I showed you pictures I'll never make fun of another code recollection

[00:14:18] again like I've got whatever one limited runs sold a while ago I think it was a remake of five that

[00:14:26] still looks pretty nice and with the sprites and whatever I don't know how they went from that

[00:14:31] let's make garbage yeah I don't know what happened well I do know what happened they didn't have

[00:14:38] any money and this is probably they just had to get the game out and it's gonna look however but

[00:14:43] yeah that previous Sheeran game you mentioned Sheeran 5 is 2d because it was based on a DS game from

[00:14:50] 2010 and this is like and then it came to Vita and then it came to Switch and whatever so it's

[00:14:55] had a long journey but it started as 2d that's I guess that's totally different but Steve I don't

[00:15:01] know if you played Sheeran the Wanderer for Wii like Sheeran 3 basically that looks better than

[00:15:07] this new one for Switch the Wii version I swear to God it looks better I didn't play it but I've

[00:15:13] seen it because of all of this and like I don't know what happened to this game on direct

[00:15:20] it's it's baffling you know when you're playing the dungeon when you're in the top down view

[00:15:25] and just spunking around I guess it looks all right but still like it shouldn't look this

[00:15:31] bad and I guess the only other saving grace is that it is 60 frames a second but like

[00:15:37] it better be yeah it better be right look at it it better fucking be but there's this weird jutter

[00:15:44] as you move around so that 60 FPS feels like a lot less it's bad okay I'm sorry I had to say

[00:15:52] that up front just because Kevin's looking at me like well is it enough that year like

[00:15:58] like focused on it the whole time you're playing or were you able to get over it I was able to

[00:16:03] get over it because in the like I said in the dungeons it really doesn't look that bad it kind

[00:16:08] of looks like a souped up PSP game which again still isn't great but looks okay enough it's the cut

[00:16:15] scenes Kevin and stuff when they're like they're using those graphics for like everything and like

[00:16:21] up close and like towns and stuff and it looks horrendous that's the problem you know I get

[00:16:27] I'm sure they didn't have the budget to do like CG cut teams or whatever right so it just you

[00:16:32] know it just kind of has to be what it is we're people looking for that and sharing the wanderer

[00:16:38] what a CG cut scene well probably not right I'm just saying that if they using the real time

[00:16:45] graphics I guess it's the best they could do but it's terrible terrible anyway that's the bad part

[00:16:51] like I said the good part this game is fucking incredible you've probably heard me say on the show

[00:16:59] about other games before about difficulty when we're discussing difficulty is the fear is the fun

[00:17:06] because you're scared of dying because you're scared of this or that that's the fun part is the fear

[00:17:12] and nothing does that better than a rogue like you know that not just the fear of dying but like

[00:17:19] what I like to call the stench of death I know that sounds kind of weird but think about something

[00:17:23] like spul wonky I don't think Steve is played spul wonky maybe Kevin that's probably not but like

[00:17:30] that game that's one of the best rogue likes of all time to me because they got it right

[00:17:34] you're scared you're so scared of dying not so much where you have to tip toe around every little

[00:17:39] corner or whatever but you've really got to keep your wits about you about even just the tiny things

[00:17:44] or you're done that's why spul wonky is great that's why spul wonky too is not so great because they

[00:17:52] just didn't get it right in that game is probably one of the most disappointing sequels I played

[00:17:56] and that I can think of in a while because it's just it's too much it's too hard they added too much

[00:18:01] it's too punishing especially if you never played a game like this before you turn that on and be like

[00:18:06] this is okay am I missing something here I'm kind of overplaying this so that's what I really

[00:18:13] appreciate here about sheer and six is that they get that biting difficulty right that's also

[00:18:20] Steve why don't really get into the Pokemon mystery dungeons as much or for a more popular example

[00:18:26] something like heady's because it just doesn't have that like to me that I need that difficulty

[00:18:34] you know if it's too easy it's just not a whole lot of fun to me it's it can get a little boring

[00:18:41] for me um heady's more than Pokemon but that that's kind of how I feel about the genre

[00:18:47] and that difficulty curve works in sheer and six because it's not a curve at all it's kind of a

[00:18:54] flat line it's tough right when you start out and it's the same kind of tough later on yeah

[00:19:00] enemies can get trickier later on there's more stuff they can do to to mess you up or whatever

[00:19:05] but it's really about making sure you level up appropriately as things go along you know there's

[00:19:13] no you hit the ground running there's no boring early part where it's easy it's like boom you're

[00:19:17] starting it's tough from the get go and I like that and the leveling up pace is perfect you never

[00:19:24] feel like you have to run around and grind or anything which the game doesn't really let you do

[00:19:29] because that's what someone might think when they first play this okay I'll take it really slow

[00:19:33] I'll just bash out all these enemies you can't do that Steve is shaking his head he knows already

[00:19:38] you can't do that because you have a hunger meter and you will get hungry and you will collapse

[00:19:44] from hunger if you take too long you can't just dawdle and do whatever you want now that doesn't mean

[00:19:49] that you can you know you really have to rush oh my god I'm running out of you know it's not like

[00:19:54] that it's perfectly paced you know you do have a lot of time to explore around and do what you

[00:19:59] want to do but at some point you got to move on because you will starve to death you just pick up

[00:20:04] food as you go yes you find Onigiri in this game so you get a regular Onigiri a large Onigiri

[00:20:10] and Grill Onigiri there's all sorts of like there's a Sumo Onigiri Kevin that literally makes you fat

[00:20:16] plumps up your character and you can bastrew walls for a while until your hunger goes back down

[00:20:21] to appropriate level you even gives a little mini dos koi when you become a sumo sumo she read

[00:20:29] it's great point being is that you really gotta keep these games moving along you can't just

[00:20:34] hang around on floors and wait for monsters to show up and just keep whacking over and over again

[00:20:38] for them for Farman you know the game warned me and I don't know if other mystery dungeons have

[00:20:44] this mechanic at some point an NPC told me hey if you take too long on a floor you're gonna get

[00:20:50] swept away by the winds of something or other so there is a hurry up mechanic on top of the hunger

[00:20:56] and I've never encountered that I never spent that long on a floor

[00:21:00] Chukaboo a Pokemon have done that but you have to be there for a long time

[00:21:07] what happens do you remember to some asshole start chasing you or like just

[00:21:11] there's always a weird something's chasing you or a black wind house and it kills you

[00:21:17] in spillunky it's in the form of a ghost that can one shot you it's a really slow ghost

[00:21:24] but it it's like okay hurry up and almost and right so you have the big ghosty beluga thing

[00:21:29] and bubble bobble when you take too long hmm that thing you stuff freak me out when I was a kid

[00:21:34] by the way it's kind of scary um but yeah so you can't just you can't just dodle because of

[00:21:41] because of a lot of things okay then you might think okay I'll just carry a bunch of own a

[00:21:46] geary I'll just find them all and stock pile them or whatever and buy them from every shop they

[00:21:50] can't stop me can't do that either Steve because you have limited inventory can't just carry as much

[00:21:55] stuff as you want no yeah you can carry a bunch of own a giri but you're not gonna have much room

[00:21:59] for any other stuff that's going to save your fucking ass later on basically what I'm trying to say is

[00:22:05] all that stuff I mentioned plus the traps and the dungeon spells you can cast hidden rooms you

[00:22:12] can find equipment like the enemy variety it's like systems on top of systems you know and they all

[00:22:20] kind of collide with each other to make like really special shit happen that's why it really works

[00:22:26] it's not just the randomly out to the dungeon so speaking of the you know on a giri shopping how

[00:22:33] has a shoplifting worked out for you so far terrible absolutely terrible I just there is a run that

[00:22:39] was going pretty south and it's like okay I don't think I'm really gonna make it pass another couple

[00:22:44] floors so I went to the shopkeeper to try to steal from him and I did steal from him and he got pissed

[00:22:52] but he moves at super speed he moves like three or four tiles for every one of your one tile

[00:22:58] and then he one shot at me for like 186 damage when I had like 47 HP

[00:23:02] because I was done he obliterated me he he pulped me like and do me just turned me into goo you know

[00:23:12] it's just okay I'm not trying that again I don't really try stealing from shops and games like

[00:23:17] this anyway maybe spulunky sometimes if I think I can get away with it but that's it so people who

[00:23:25] have played other previous mystery dungeon games like like I said chocobor Pokemon might be hearing

[00:23:29] me talk about this and maybe like okay yeah that sounds exactly what I did in those games like what

[00:23:34] makes cheerin so special what makes this one so good and that's a very fair question

[00:23:41] and the best way can say it is that mystery dungeon being an iterative series you know like a

[00:23:48] smash brothers or like Steve mentioned a Splatoon where it doesn't really change that much every

[00:23:53] time out right it's you're just sort of refining and polishing what was already there to make

[00:23:59] a much better game and it feels a lot different because all those small details matter a lot

[00:24:05] in in games like those and like I said the leveling up has to be just the right pace the hunger meter

[00:24:12] can't be too fast or make you feel too rushed or it can't be too slow because there's no danger

[00:24:16] the traps have to be scary right but they can't do stuff to you like instant death or something

[00:24:21] because that doesn't feel fair right you need to have all these things feel just the right way

[00:24:28] and I think tune soft there were now spike tune soft expertise of making mystery dungeons for 30

[00:24:36] years just really shows through in cheerin six here and that's why it's so good it might be the best

[00:24:42] mystery dungeon I've ever played in that regard when you say it's it's perfectly balanced how

[00:24:46] beginner friendly is this because it just it sounds stressful the way you're describing it I

[00:24:52] would not suggest a beginner to mystery dungeon play cheerin six I would suggest beginners play

[00:24:58] the one that Steve mentioned before cheerin five I cannot remember the name of the bit it came out

[00:25:02] this December 2020 for for switch so play the previous one that's like 20 bucks or whatever on switch

[00:25:09] I would suggest beginner start there one it's prettier it's 2d art and it looks good

[00:25:14] number two it'll read that game I will see if Steve agrees I think that version really eases you

[00:25:20] in I didn't play it yet oh shit you fucking ask you catch up on the cheerin I don't know why

[00:25:28] called you a fucking ass that seemed a little hurt that feels a little rude I'm sorry

[00:25:34] that was I'm sorry video games I'm hopped up on the cheerin right now but to answer Kevin's question

[00:25:40] yeah I suggest beginners play the previous game it's cheaper it looks better it's not as good

[00:25:47] as cheerin six sheer and six is for sickos who really love this shit and if you really low sheeran

[00:25:52] or mystery dungeon general you will love sheer and six sheer and five is for someone like you Kevin

[00:25:58] who is like mystery dungeon curious and wants to get into it so that that would be my suggestion

[00:26:05] um I don't want to leave this without talking about the music because it was wonderful it is

[00:26:11] wonderful I should say um cheerin the wanderer is based in feudal japan you know so you have that

[00:26:16] like very traditional sounding Japanese music you know with the lutes and one of those japanese

[00:26:22] drums called a I can't think of the name of it but you have all those familiar sounds right

[00:26:28] but it's not just ambiance like it might be in like gosa sujima or something like that

[00:26:33] this is like music you know it's like rhythmic and it's involving and it's catchy you know

[00:26:38] it keeps pace with the game it's the best way you could say it um roguelikes are one of those genres

[00:26:43] much like a platformer or RPG where it needs to have good music it's just one of those genres

[00:26:50] and this game cheerin six does deliver on that so I that's very that's good to report

[00:26:57] but yeah that I don't have anything else to say probably the best mystery dungeon of all time

[00:27:01] territory this game is is incredible I didn't even scratch the surface of the content in this game

[00:27:07] it's not just the main dungeon you go through which is 31 floors by the way and once you beat that

[00:27:12] dungeon it opens up so much more stuff in the game there's so much content here that I can

[00:27:18] forgive some really shitty graphics like worse than mobile game graphics so it's all worth it

[00:27:24] in the end again cheerin six okay I'll say it one more time the mystery dungeon of serpent

[00:27:30] coil island definitely check it out if you were a mystery dungeon sicko all right we're gonna

[00:27:36] take a break we'll be back with big questions give us a bit are we gonna hop in the shower this time

[00:27:41] Kevin or is that break too let's hear one of those new sound drops to find out here we go

[00:28:00] oh boy we're back still still just sitting back in the chair towel wrapped around me fresh out of

[00:28:29] the shower we have the showers more invigorating with that hot drop we got I think so as well

[00:28:35] I've invigorated for reinvigorated for shower time Steve shower time is shower time

[00:28:42] you got you've got to be sexier than that about shower time you have to give us something

[00:28:47] it doesn't make me feel very sexy when that's the response to shower time either yeah oh baby oh

[00:28:53] shower time is shower time okay if we get a patreon setup maybe we can get some nice like you know

[00:29:01] like blue led lights installed in in the fine time LLC shower or something so Steve feels a bit

[00:29:07] more magical on break yeah instead of giving us like chat gpt shower time answers because that's

[00:29:12] just not what I want it all no one ever considers what Steve wants huh that that's why

[00:29:20] two against one okay there's no HR department here you're gonna have a shower with us and you're

[00:29:25] gonna like it that's all I'm saying and I'm just saying maybe buy more than one Lufa

[00:29:32] I know I've been asked for this right for a while but we've been over this we have to share the

[00:29:38] we have to it's part of the ritual come on man I thought that was more of a budget related item

[00:29:45] myself but have you seen that maybe I've seen that picture going around lately where it's like

[00:29:50] the two toilets next to each other in the same bathroom like the two yeah it's like what do

[00:29:56] you get a hold hands will you take a shit or something like yeah I don't know group yeah it was

[00:30:04] weird I'm glad it was two separate toilets though and not just like one long toilet where you like

[00:30:15] you know the love scene toilet why'd you do this come that's the name of the show I don't care

[00:30:26] what else what else we say it's the love scene toilet I don't care all right maybe we should talk

[00:30:36] about some big questions maybe holy shit okay um the professional broadcaster voice

[00:30:43] oh all right ps5 pro ps5 pro is been all but confirmed we've seen it all week basically digital

[00:30:52] foundry saw the specs themselves with their very very own eyes so they did a whole video on it

[00:30:58] and everything and oh man I guess I should have taken that on place your bets huh what a fucking dummy

[00:31:05] I am Kevin huh you gave me the chance probably should have yeah I said the writing was on the wall

[00:31:10] and you have fucking I set you up for the layup and you have fumbled it I really did I could have

[00:31:15] I could have been rich like a bitch but nope anyway from the looks of it it doesn't seem to be

[00:31:21] a super substantial leap over the current ps5 which you know is expected but this makes me wonder

[00:31:29] guys and this is the question how are they going to market this because with ps4 pro it was easy

[00:31:36] now you can have 4k you do 4k resolution okay boom perfect that's the perfect marketable thing 4k

[00:31:42] new 3ds you know they push the hardware here some games you could only play in here hey you want to

[00:31:48] play like xenoblade on the go here you can do it on this you know those are big selling points yeah

[00:31:54] there wasn't that maybe just not having the 3d be garbage right yeah that too you know even though

[00:31:59] there wasn't that many exclusively you have to have a new 3ds to do this it was some stuff and

[00:32:05] the other stuff was upgraded enough for it's like okay I see the point guys I don't know what

[00:32:11] they're going to do for ps5 pro here I really don't know what they can do Kevin this or anything you

[00:32:16] think they can do to make the general public like stand up and notice I think that is a great

[00:32:23] intriguing question and I don't have an answer because I don't think he at this but they can't

[00:32:28] just say it's better it's got more tariff lobs it's it's not going to cut it and I don't think

[00:32:34] that the I don't think there's really a market that's been like sitting waiting for a midgen

[00:32:40] refresh if people were interested in ps5 they've already got one and I just I think it's a different

[00:32:46] climate than when the ps4 pro came out so I really don't see this setting the world on fire I

[00:32:51] it will be interesting just to see how they even attempt to market it because I don't know who's

[00:32:57] really looking for this at this point yeah guys I don't really know either because

[00:33:04] unless they finally made that wood grain one I've been asking for that whole time now I'm just kidding

[00:33:09] but not really getting that sticker for your fucking birthday now you're getting the decal

[00:33:14] for the ps5 I don't care what you say but uh it honestly I think the only way you can make

[00:33:19] the general public notice which is what you're asking me here is if you got rid of the base ps5

[00:33:24] and made the ps5 pro the only PlayStation 5 you're selling and I don't know how you'd make that work

[00:33:30] but I honestly see that being the only way you're going to make everybody notice

[00:33:37] you can do that and I think that's what they did with ps4 because at some point they discontinued

[00:33:43] that launch model that I had and then they had ps4 slim and ps4 pro they didn't have the

[00:33:49] original ps4 anymore and I think they already kind of have a ps5 slim right or like

[00:33:55] isn't that a thing so like I mean I don't really know maybe they can just discontinue the current

[00:34:02] ps5 I guess and say already haven't done so yeah but what about all the ones sitting in stores

[00:34:10] well I mean they can sell through that stock but like after that I'm sure they can just send out

[00:34:16] I don't know it's kind of like how like okay we're not making any more we use

[00:34:22] so you can just have them on the shelf and have your display but as soon as they're bought that's it

[00:34:26] we're not sending out anymore I mean it could be kind of like one of those things I guess

[00:34:32] would be interesting too and I'm not I'm not saying I think this is remotely feasible but it's

[00:34:37] it's also hard to save just as far as like component cost um you know when they were really

[00:34:43] ramping up production and all the impacts that COVID had if it was feasible to launch a ps4 pro

[00:34:50] that wasn't a massive upgrade at the same price as the base ps4 and then you know drop the slim

[00:34:57] model down like 70 bucks and and again I'm not saying I think that's something that's going to

[00:35:03] happen but that would be a way to definitely move units that would have people where you know they

[00:35:08] were moderately interested and hadn't hadn't sprung for for a ps5 to you know okay go and

[00:35:14] spend the same price and get the more powerful model at this point again probably not feasible but

[00:35:20] that's you know that's something I think it actually move units um yeah but the thing is they like

[00:35:27] raise the price a couple years ago right I don't know if it went back down but like that was

[00:35:33] concerning see we used to have that right we could always count on like okay at some point

[00:35:38] it's gonna take a price cut and a lot of people would buy in at that first price cut I know a lot

[00:35:43] of people when the ps4 went from 400 to 300 it's like oh there you go that's a magic price point

[00:35:48] for a lot of people yeah I hope they can do that again I think when they did the price bump that was

[00:35:54] just a lot of like manufacturing and specifically shipping logistics issues that were we're kind

[00:36:00] of driving that and I don't know I guess you know depending on what they're buying from where if

[00:36:06] that market has adjusted enough to maybe justify doing something comparable to a price drop yeah

[00:36:14] we'll have to see I okay are we still at what is it 500 bucks what would be appropriate I feel

[00:36:22] like I feel like 450 is not moving the needle right it would have to be 400 it would have to be

[00:36:28] a hundred dollar price drop I don't think anyone's being like oh yeah it was 500 but if it drops

[00:36:32] to 450 yeah it's got to be 400 okay but if they if they said that the ps5 slim is 430 and the new

[00:36:43] upgraded ps5 is 500 does that does that get people out to buy that then no for I mean maybe I

[00:36:52] feel like the magic price point is 400 I don't know why it could be wrong but I yeah people you're

[00:36:58] right in the sense that like people will see the cheaper thing and be like oh yeah there's that

[00:37:04] right now obviously we're not going to get to like Xbox Series S territory of cheap or something

[00:37:09] like that that's like the only advantage Microsoft has on that front right it's not going to be that

[00:37:13] cheap but I think it can't go lower than 400 and if I'm sticking with my theory that switch to

[00:37:20] will be 400 dollars I absolutely do think it will be then it makes sense for something like a ps5

[00:37:28] slim to be 400 as well there's got to be some hesitancy after the PlayStation 5 VR to over price

[00:37:37] something and have it just sit on on shelves after dumping all that R&D into it did you see by the

[00:37:43] way like they're stopping the manufacturer they're not making anymore right now because they're not

[00:37:47] selling so they're like temporarily halting like the the assembly line of it and say oh boy okay

[00:37:54] no one wanted to but spend a whole other consoles worth of money to get this peripheral um

[00:37:58] jeez we should who could have saw that kind of see I still I still don't think it's the money

[00:38:04] I really do think it's the software I think if it had compelling software yeah it wouldn't sell

[00:38:09] a whole ton of copies but people would buy that thing it's I I really don't think it's about the

[00:38:14] price but I could be wrong it sure it's it sure doesn't seem like they've supported it like they

[00:38:19] did the VR on ps4 and not saying that they like supported the fuck out of that thing but you know

[00:38:24] they they made it known that it was still a thing I feel like we never hear about ps5 VR

[00:38:30] no not at all not since it came out even when it did come out it's just like oh here it is

[00:38:35] I guess and the only coverage is the R&D game and yeah yeah that's the only coverage I saw

[00:38:40] I saw digital phantry like John Donovan played the prize in VR game talked about it and covered

[00:38:45] another couple other things and that's literally all of shame what was that a year ago I'm on a

[00:38:50] year ago I feel like they tried to cram in the years what's coming to VR in the state of plays

[00:38:56] and then that's what I tune out for a few minutes because it's all oh everyone everyone does

[00:39:00] because it's all cars are soared here's a fist okay that's great that's all you can come up with

[00:39:06] remember early in the switch era where Nintendo was still hedging their bets with 3DS so like the

[00:39:11] 2017 and 18 direct still had here's up here's some 3DS games that everyone just tune out

[00:39:17] and then it's like okay here's switch

[00:39:27] okay next thing I wanted to bring up and I've been wanting to bring this up for a while but now

[00:39:32] that the game is out I think it's much more appropriate to talk about it so I'm just going

[00:39:37] to read this PC gamer headline guys and then we can go from there dragon stagma 2 director didn't

[00:39:44] want his game to rely on fast travel quote travel is boring that's not true it's only an issue

[00:39:51] because your game is boring in a quote oh baby shots fired at I don't know starfield or I don't

[00:39:58] know why I said shots fired I know we didn't name any name I just want to be salacious

[00:40:04] but okay let's just talk about that and we can take that wherever we want Steve what do you

[00:40:10] what do you think about that is that true it's a fast travel is only an issue because your game

[00:40:14] is boring um I'm seeing where the dragon stagma 2 people are coming from there's a big excuse me

[00:40:23] a big chunk of the reason why I'm still mucking around tears of the kingdom is because I very

[00:40:28] very rarely fast travel in the game I just can't help myself I walk or make a big machine and drive

[00:40:34] myself everywhere but no in the end you should have fast travel but even so if we spent literally

[00:40:42] years building a huge ass world it should be fun to look through and do stuff I get it yeah and

[00:40:50] I don't think he was saying that dragon stagma 2 didn't have fast travel not that you said

[00:40:55] that either I just think he meant like to rely on it to be the main mode of transportation around

[00:41:01] well you can just fast travel back there that type of shit Kevin yeah I totally can get behind

[00:41:08] that as a concept I became acutely aware of this when I was playing Skyrim because I spent a lot

[00:41:13] of time thinking about I would spend literally 20 times longer probably much more than that

[00:41:22] you know I travel across half that map to get to somewhere where I had the option to fast travel

[00:41:26] because to me that was the game that that was you know I was I was getting you know it wasn't

[00:41:32] it wasn't a task I had to do but that was like the meat and potatoes of that game was just traversing

[00:41:39] that world world and you know stumbling across cool shit so I think it's pretty specific to how

[00:41:46] the open world game is structured as well you think about something like final fantasy 16 which

[00:41:52] is really I mean something that very much not an open world game and something like that you

[00:41:59] know you definitely you would never want to have to travel back and forth through that game it needs

[00:42:04] fast travel so I think in a situation like that it's limited in scope by design and that's totally

[00:42:11] fine too but I think just having an awareness of how you want to implement fast travel and what

[00:42:18] value it has is a good thing to think about during development I agree for the most part with

[00:42:26] what you just said but then there are those like contingent of folks who think every game should have

[00:42:34] like fast travel they should they think they should be able to go wherever they want that was

[00:42:38] complained about so much about Jedi fallen order and I was shocked to hear that because I've never

[00:42:44] once well playing the game oh man I really need to fast travel here or there like I never thought

[00:42:50] that playing that entire game and of course they made that a huge selling point of Jedi survivor okay

[00:42:56] you can fast travel now whoop do do and I never thought fallen order needed it so I wonder if

[00:43:03] you know basically are we are we the ones too much on the other side or basically can you even

[00:43:09] speculate why people feel that way because I never felt that way I yeah I think I get that

[00:43:16] perspective as well and I don't I agree with with the dragons dog dragons dogma to developer

[00:43:23] and what they've said but I can also certainly understand the value in having that fast travel

[00:43:28] and there's definitely been times where I'm playing a game where I could get a lot of a lot more

[00:43:33] meat off the bone but it's just you know I've made a decision that this is something I just want to

[00:43:37] like mainline and burn through Miles Morales was a really good example of that there's no like

[00:43:42] quality about that game that makes me want to do that I think just how I was feeling about

[00:43:47] that game I just thought I want I want to you know burn through the single player of this

[00:43:52] and I had a great time with it and yeah I definitely didn't spend a whole pile of time in that

[00:43:57] game like looking in every nook and cranny and and manually traveling everywhere so I think

[00:44:02] it's good to have the option there if you feel the need to be pragmatic about how much time you're

[00:44:08] spending on something I really do feel like if your game is not fun to traverse then it really

[00:44:14] isn't that fun it should be a convenience fast travel and not a crutch the only times I really

[00:44:21] fast travel is in fallout for instance is like I just get done with a dungeon quote unquote dungeon

[00:44:29] and I have all this shit on me and I can barely carry it and I really need to get back to town

[00:44:34] and sell off you know what I mean because like I just I really I mean yeah I could walk back there

[00:44:38] especially if you're over-encumbered and it's like I really don't want to drop any of this shit

[00:44:42] I've got to take I've got to walk it back to town okay fine but again that's part of the game right

[00:44:48] that traversal if if a game doesn't have any reason for you to do stuff like that then maybe it

[00:44:54] shouldn't be structured the way it is so I I largely do agree with the Dragon's Dogma 2 people

[00:45:02] and by the way I'm not a Dragon's Dogma fan I played the first one I think Steve has as well

[00:45:06] somewhat and I'm like no I think this game sucks I can't even believe it has fans so I am not

[00:45:12] interested in Dragon's Dogma 2 at all but I'm I really like that he was willing to talk that

[00:45:19] shit as you will I have a question for you Kevin do you think you'd been able to stomach golem if it

[00:45:26] had fast travel yeah I mean if I could have like you know what when I bitched about getting set back

[00:45:37] like 45 fucking minutes from the way it loads and I could have loaded back to where I got set back

[00:45:43] I probably would have been able to put a bit more time into it I'm not saying I would have finished it

[00:45:47] but it could it could have had some more legs then I wonder if if framing this conversation around

[00:45:55] fast travel is almost the wrong way to put it because to me I think more the sentiment that they're

[00:46:01] trying to get at is that overall games probably should not really have strong peaks and valleys I've

[00:46:09] talked before about this like concept of like you know like eat your fruits and vegetables game

[00:46:15] design you know because it's good for you and it'll like build your personal character or something

[00:46:20] where they make you do something you don't necessarily want to do and I don't think I can think of

[00:46:26] a single situation where I would consider a mechanic or the way something is implemented

[00:46:32] where I would consider it in that like you know eat your peas and carrots sense to be good I think

[00:46:38] everything should be everything should always be fun so whether it's fast travel or just like the

[00:46:44] general gameplay loop that you're playing if you can look at it objectively and say there are

[00:46:49] our valleys within this then that's probably just part of a greater problem with how that game

[00:46:54] was fundamentally designed so you know not specific to fast travel yeah I agree and that's the

[00:47:01] thing about Final Fantasy 7 rebirth is that you know I played a hundred hours of that game 97

[00:47:08] of those 100 hours were incredible to me I love doing almost everything in that game that I did

[00:47:16] do I didn't do every single thing that there is to do but the stuff I did do which is pretty much

[00:47:22] a lot of it was great so it's like I get it for a game with that much content and good gonna be

[00:47:28] that long it's a little bit impossible for everything to be good but you just have to have a really

[00:47:35] high batting average and Final Fantasy 7 rebirth does so it's again you're right it's not even about

[00:47:41] the fast travel it's making those things in the world super worth it and it does that was one of my

[00:47:47] criticisms if you remember of tears of the kingdom both you is that like okay yeah I can clear out

[00:47:54] this enclave of moblins and what do I fucking get some stupid chess with like five arrows in it

[00:48:00] I have no idea why I would ever fuck with them and so I didn't you know and that's that's one of

[00:48:06] my main criticisms of that game the game is still incredible don't get me wrong but like there's

[00:48:11] there's no real reward for doing stuff like that in Final Fantasy 7 rebirth there is and that that

[00:48:16] to me yeah that kind of ties in the fast travel now that that you put it that way I mean even in

[00:48:22] that case and yeah then I guess you know for you that's definitely a legitimate point to me you

[00:48:27] know just spending the time to go and do that to clear out that encampment is maybe just the reward

[00:48:33] itself because I I never had any time with that game where I felt like I was I was like spending

[00:48:41] doing something I didn't want to do that's it too again about rebirth it's like yeah there's a

[00:48:48] lot of things to do you really don't have to it's all pretty much all of its optional you do exactly

[00:48:53] what you want to do if you just want to play story you can do exactly that too the game lets you

[00:48:58] so it's it's really great in that regard whereas like you know you know how some open world games

[00:49:03] are where it's like you can do whatever you want to do okay but you really can't because you have

[00:49:07] to do this and that again says it's a cyclist but you you really should do it you know what he means

[00:49:12] because if you don't you're gonna be in a world of hurt I like when games really I think Steve just

[00:49:18] got done playing Ghostwire Tokyo and that's kind of an open-worldly kind of design but you really

[00:49:25] don't have to you I just critical path the game Steve I just did I just went from story point to

[00:49:29] story point beat the game that's all you really got to do because I was on a time limit to

[00:49:34] finish it before got removed from Royal which he's after a while I was kind of not doing a lot

[00:49:40] of the side things too unless they were on my way to other main main questy things because

[00:49:47] I don't know there was a lot of things they I felt like they just kind of stapled in there just

[00:49:50] to em big in the game yeah and I don't think it really needed it and quite frankly I didn't feel

[00:49:56] like a misty thing for skipping that stuff I do not like it when games have a mechanic that is optional

[00:50:04] but they make you try it out for like a lot of a lot of games like they like to build in these like

[00:50:12] semi complex and you know fairly well thought out like card games in an open world game

[00:50:17] and you know a lot because I know usually I'm probably not going to want to play that and if

[00:50:23] I want to try it I want to make that decision I don't want them to be like you need to try two

[00:50:28] rounds of this to progress in the mainline story to find out if you like it and then you can choose

[00:50:34] not to play it down the road shit like that pisses me off. Guess what Final Fantasy 7 rebirth has?

[00:50:41] I know and you know what I've I've done I've done some of some of that the like you know character

[00:50:47] manipulation game or like the one where you have the the pieces on the board or whatever and

[00:50:52] and you know what I thought that was good but you didn't have to do that they don't make you try it

[00:50:57] right okay yeah no there are the mini games I mean we'll talk about it when we talk about it

[00:51:02] but Jesus Christ yeah there's there's a lot of stuff in the game and they built out the stuff

[00:51:06] you know what it is to in a triple a game nowadays they make stuff like that and games take so

[00:51:11] long to make nowadays they make you play it because it's like this is our content bitch you're not

[00:51:16] allowed to skip it we spent so long making this that you have to play it you don't have to do that

[00:51:22] shit in in rebirth. If it was that critical then you shouldn't have you shouldn't have put it

[00:51:26] in the game in the first place if it's if that's part of the mandatory content for you to get your

[00:51:31] fucking $60 worth out of it then again you should have revisited that game from a foundational level

[00:51:38] so what Kevin's saying is that he didn't play all against everybody in wheels and see if stars like

[00:51:43] Steve did I did not I tried wheels I think one time and then I stopped playing it same with the

[00:51:50] Witcher the Witcher like people fucking loved Gwent I tried it briefly and people are all

[00:51:57] dicks out for Gwent I don't forget it. All right I've got another question over the last few

[00:52:04] shows we keep talking about these recent handheld devices and with all the switch two hype

[00:52:10] gradually building up do you guys think that the switch two faces any competition from handheld

[00:52:16] PCs or otherwise gaming devices? It's a really good question and let's start here

[00:52:28] to answer the question just flatly no switch does not face competition from handheld PCs

[00:52:34] I'll just say that flatly because the proof is in the name really handheld PCs

[00:52:42] switch was never marketed as a handheld they were very careful to not do that and it was always

[00:52:49] the console you can take with you and yes it has a functionality where you know you can you can use

[00:52:56] it as a handheld but that's not how they market it not even really the switch light even though

[00:53:01] you can only use it as a handheld you know and they were very careful after we you it's like no

[00:53:06] we're gonna make the mission of this system very clear this is a home console with a screen

[00:53:12] which was smarter them right because it's like if you say it's a handheld you're expecting

[00:53:17] handheld quote unquote quality if you say it's a home console people wait now I can play a real

[00:53:23] last Mario or Zelda on the go not like spirit tracks or something I can really play breath of

[00:53:28] the wild wherever I want that was the appeal steam deck and I don't know a raw gauai or whatever

[00:53:35] doesn't really have that I don't think you can just play PC games that's great that's totally great

[00:53:42] but no I feel like those aren't the same thing yeah I think I think you hit the nail on the head

[00:53:50] I don't think there's really that much competition beyond you know being in the video game market

[00:53:55] together and maybe this will sound stupid and naive but I would probably argue the steam deck is

[00:54:01] more in competition with the PlayStation 5 and Series X than it is with Nintendo because I do

[00:54:06] think that the vast majority of people buying Nintendo systems are making that purchase because

[00:54:12] of the games that are going to be available they're they're you know quite often people with families

[00:54:16] people that want to be able to play Mario and Mario Kart and they're buying it based on the software

[00:54:21] and the portability of switch was a massive perk I think the games that people would be playing

[00:54:29] on the steam deck are likely going to be more closely aligned with what you could get on Sony

[00:54:34] or Microsoft consoles so I you know as far as spending power in that market yeah I would argue

[00:54:42] that Nintendo is pretty far from being in competition with that I never usually buy it when companies

[00:54:49] are like oh we're not in competition with whatever you hear Nintendo say that a lot right oh we're

[00:54:54] we're our own thing we're not in competition or you hear like the fanboys online you know what's

[00:54:59] like you notice it's always Sony versus Microsoft it's never hate Nintendo is quietly running away

[00:55:05] with this thing no it's the Sony ponies and the Xbox right they're at each other's throat right

[00:55:11] he's for some reason Nintendo was not considered in that space and I always thought that was kind of

[00:55:16] silly especially remember they try to do that with Gamecube when they were like a very distant third

[00:55:21] at some point like especially in the very early 2000s before they caught up like a little bit

[00:55:26] after they dropped the 99 bucks but we won't talk about that part um when uh

[00:55:32] when uh everyone's like oh Nintendo is just like you know oh we're Nintendo we're not we don't

[00:55:37] really consider ourselves a Sony and Microsoft in competition yeah because you're third place you

[00:55:42] can't even place that's why you know that's why but on the go ahead on the flip side of that though

[00:55:53] I mean I think if you're going to buy a secondary console I would say either the primary or the

[00:55:59] secondary out of the big three is going to be Nintendo because I think I think the people that

[00:56:05] would how many people do you think would go out and buy a ps5 and a series x but not a switch

[00:56:11] that that I don't think that's a lot of people personally that's okay the way I feel

[00:56:17] people are getting a switch and something switch and ps5 switch and series x I don't think people

[00:56:22] are getting a ps5 in a series x Steve hi it's me people again

[00:56:27] with my switch and my ps5 remember remember back in the day like 15 years ago the the wee 60

[00:56:34] content the wee 60 remember that get a wee get a 360 fuck that ps3 a ps triple is wee 60 you guys

[00:56:41] remember that shit or maybe it was just my message for you remember the marketing they they

[00:56:45] spend with uh you know you brought up uh Nintendo quietly walking away with all of this and I

[00:56:53] think that's going to be the big problem in a few years well maybe sooner who knows

[00:56:57] because I think the biggest competition switch has is switch two will have is the switch

[00:57:04] it's one of the best selling consoles of all time and you know the extended life cycle it's got

[00:57:10] has the you know the more casual fans you know fairly comfortable they're not going to really

[00:57:17] are is there going to be another pandemic with another animal crossing to you know boost those

[00:57:21] numbers again they they I think they really got a big game to talk to us the nut jobs and then

[00:57:27] keep it coming like they did the last time they can't show up with new super Mario brothers wonder

[00:57:33] switch as as as our launch title and then do this all over again I don't know if they can do that

[00:57:41] twice they're never launching with something like that I don't even think they would launch with

[00:57:46] something like Mario wonder for like a switch to I don't even think that's good enough for them

[00:57:52] they I think then to know smarter than that now they know they got to bring it they've learned

[00:57:56] their lesson they've learned their lesson from from new from new Super Mario Brothers you in

[00:58:02] Nintendo land they learned it I mean even so there's gonna be a lot of old stock and second-hand

[00:58:09] units that might look more appealing to people like this already has a big backlog of games why

[00:58:14] would I need to buy a switch to and then who knows I don't know that's that's interesting you come

[00:58:21] from that standpoint because to me I just don't feel like to Nintendo fans the switch to is a hard

[00:58:27] sell at all because it's you know it's it's been over seven years at this point and as great as

[00:58:35] the switch was for those seven years it is starting to feel quite dated at this point so you know

[00:58:40] they can come and say hey we gave you a fucking good time with a very solid library for seven years

[00:58:46] if you bought a switch on day one you you know definitely got your money's worth and now we're going

[00:58:52] to give you something new I don't I just I don't know I'd be I'd be surprised if there were too many

[00:58:57] people that um you know didn't want to jump on that I think they've bought a lot of good will with

[00:59:02] the switch Sam I mean I think they did too but I don't to make those numbers happen again I'm just

[00:59:09] not seeing it right now yeah but you know I don't think they'll ever I mean okay the super Nintendo

[00:59:16] sold less than and Nintendo that doesn't mean that like the super Nintendo was like less thought of

[00:59:21] or a failure or something like that it's just like look you're not really going to match the

[00:59:25] fucking NES that thing was a revolution right so you know just because the numbers may not bear it out

[00:59:32] doesn't mean that the market share or the mind share of Nintendo in the 16 bit era didn't

[00:59:37] lose any lust or anything yeah there's competition from Sega for the first time but that doesn't

[00:59:42] mean that they then tend to was something to that so you know it just depends I guess I wouldn't

[00:59:50] really put all my stock in like oh is it really gonna top the switch I don't think it really has to

[00:59:54] I also I think I would be very surprised to have a crystal ball and look into the future and find

[01:00:01] out that the switch successor has sold less than 80 million units yeah me too that's kind of I

[01:00:09] think 80 million would still be you know they would do very well with that especially with the

[01:00:13] attach rate that they've had with switch people buy a lot of software yeah that's the thing about

[01:00:19] that's why Nintendo is raking it in people buy those games where it's like someone gets a PS5

[01:00:24] to play Harry Potter or something and that's kind of it they get a PS5 they need to play the

[01:00:30] new call of duty right it's going to look because now PS4 and like they yeah they still come on

[01:00:36] the little systems but now they look so trash that it's like even even people who don't really care

[01:00:42] about that kind of stuff even notice when they go to their PS5 friends house and play it on there

[01:00:47] it's like whoa this is so much better right even they're noticing now so it's you know that's how

[01:00:53] that's sold that's how that sells but the second point I wanted to make is that like you you said

[01:00:59] something Kevin about like we were talking about competition right oh Nintendo's non-competition

[01:01:05] with that or that but like I really do not feel that switch two has anything to worry about in terms

[01:01:12] of competing with like a steam deck or something like that we can start with the simple fact that

[01:01:18] like switch two will play Nintendo games and it will be the only place you can play them and that

[01:01:22] is something even in the lean years like we you that is still something that means something still

[01:01:28] and I will always mean something and the only people who feel like that doesn't matter are those

[01:01:35] like super staunchly like anti Nintendo because Nintendo is for kids and babies even though I'm playing

[01:01:41] this handheld and playing like fucking weeb games on my steam deck like you know fuck off or

[01:01:45] whatever like you know but yeah outside of like those people I really don't think they switch to

[01:01:52] and the handheld PCs occupy the same mind space yeah I think the real reason why there's not

[01:01:59] going to be real direct competition is because just because someone like Andre was on here last week

[01:02:04] talk about the steam deck and how it doesn't just work Nintendo's switch two will just work and

[01:02:14] people aren't going to necessarily want to jump through hoops of oh am I buying this game and

[01:02:18] is it is it gonna run on the steam deck and am I gonna want to hold down a button to make a

[01:02:23] keyboard appear I know people are not going to want to deal with that kind of bullshit

[01:02:29] I mean I'm looking into things to get for a Game Boy curious niece and I know even if I had

[01:02:35] money it wouldn't be a steam deck or even an Android machine I'm getting to switch light

[01:02:40] because I know I could buy switch light I can load on the apps with really long names on them

[01:02:47] and I can buy by a switch game and all those things will load and I won't get calls from my sister telling

[01:02:54] why is it this loading it said how do you edit the text file for geometry wars Steve

[01:03:03] yeah how do you do that on a switch light tell me that I think I just buy geometry wars on the

[01:03:10] switch e-shop and we just loaded up like a normal person yeah yeah I would never yeah and it's

[01:03:17] like I said during the steam deck thing like yeah it tells you before as the game is launching hey

[01:03:22] this is how you bring up the keyboard it does tell you right it's aware of these things but

[01:03:28] again if you're not used to playing stuff like that there's no way on God's green earth my dad will

[01:03:35] figure out how to open up that keyboard there's just no way yeah there's definitely there's

[01:03:41] the people that just feel like it's convenient to be able to buy something that's got like just

[01:03:45] that established you know seamless UI but I think that there's also people that there's an intimidation

[01:03:51] factor to buying any of these like you know enthusiast handhelds or consoles or whatever these

[01:03:59] enthusiast devices and people know people know about that I don't I don't think there's anybody

[01:04:05] that goes out and grabs a steam deck without knowing what it is and they just you know okay heard

[01:04:10] this is a handheld gaming thing so I'm gonna go you know spend $500 on it okay we're gonna take

[01:04:17] another break where it took a shower we can't do that we can't have two showers from one show

[01:04:20] we're back we're gonna play a game

[01:04:22] you're posting with fine time

[01:04:26] I don't have an intro for this game maybe we should call it a over it's it's an over-undergame

[01:04:56] so it's a 50-50 game should we just call out the over-undergame that sounds kind of boring

[01:05:04] okay I got it here we go for the people

[01:05:09] now it's time for fine times over-undergame

[01:05:15] you felt the ball that suspense for us to find out the name of the game and called it over

[01:05:26] under game anyways just put fine time in front of it what the fuck I'm fucking believable actually

[01:05:32] you could have you would have been further ahead to be like now it's time for fine times are you

[01:05:38] smarter than a fifth grader actually this is very believable nevermind first of all

[01:05:44] don't really play don't don't rose shut up okay don't roast my name first of all okay you guys

[01:05:52] weren't really helping me you guys just sat there and went we've been robbed yeah but then you

[01:05:58] stopped and you're like wait I've got it and fucking built up the suspension and then just have

[01:06:04] the same fucking thing over again after saying over-undergame is not that exciting but I played the

[01:06:10] sound I played the sounder oh fine times over I know but you can't just wait and then all I did

[01:06:16] was to play the sound and added fine time I don't care I'm letting the I'm letting the listeners

[01:06:21] peak behind the curtain because um Steven I are constantly getting gasslet by Andre and I'm

[01:06:27] gonna see oh my god you're telling on me I'm just gonna keep playing the sound effect over and over

[01:06:32] until it makes it better

[01:06:37] so that that was this week's episode of fine time don't forget to follow us on at a late

[01:06:45] okay all right here's the game everybody here's the game it's an over-undergame as the name

[01:06:51] implies as our shitty name implies so I'm gonna name a game and I want you and Steve

[01:06:58] to tell me whether this game sold more than three million copies or less than three million copies

[01:07:06] over-under okay that's the game 50 50 okay so we're just gonna go through a whole bunch of these I have

[01:07:12] like I don't know 10 on a list we don't have to do them all but I figure three million was a good

[01:07:18] barometer I didn't want to go too high oh did this sell 10 million I mean I guess we could do that

[01:07:21] sometime in the future but you know I felt three was a nice number to do this with

[01:07:27] and okay couple rules this is worldwide sales okay not just North America or whatever this

[01:07:33] is worldwide sales of the game in question all right and unless I otherwise specify rereleases or

[01:07:43] ports of the game don't count so for instance if I say Final Fantasy 6 I am only talking about

[01:07:49] Super Nintendo I'm not talking about Final Fantasy 6 advance or like pixel remaster or anything

[01:07:55] like that just Super Nintendo if I say something like that okay unless otherwise specified okay

[01:08:01] slots clear the board started clear so I haven't started but we're gonna clear it anyway

[01:08:05] so I want to play a sound effect all right oh that board's extra clear that's very clear now okay

[01:08:12] refreshing here's our first title over under three million copy sold arms

[01:08:22] 2017 switch fighting game by the Mario Kart team arms early switch title arms did that sell more

[01:08:29] or less than three million copies Steve more more oh I'm saying I'm saying under for sure oh you're

[01:08:37] going under okay we already have a split first game okay that's it you got final answer Steve over

[01:08:43] Kevin under yes final answer let's lock it in arms has sold 2.72 million copies Kevin gets

[01:08:55] at one rate not quite three I thought they made it if you would have if you would have asked me

[01:09:01] blindly I would have said under two really wow yeah no it creeped over two at some point so

[01:09:08] they were creeping their way to three and I thought men men for the win-win and smash was gonna

[01:09:14] do it but I guess not didn't creep enough for you to get a point there will probably put it up

[01:09:20] to like 2.7 honestly all right let's clear next game Detroit become human over or under three

[01:09:32] million copies Detroit become human Steve what do you think this feels like a trap but under

[01:09:42] under three million copies Detroit become human Kevin I'm doing under as well on this one

[01:09:48] all right guys okay we're walking it in under both of you yeah it's final answer

[01:09:54] we just thank you lock it in Detroit become human has sold 5.5 million copies

[01:10:07] yeah I'm surprised to see that you know when I was thinking of stuff for this I'm like Detroit's

[01:10:13] gotta be in that middle ground no it's a little more than but I thought I put it on here because

[01:10:16] it shocked me I guess it shocked you guys too maybe I should play it since I have it on the list

[01:10:21] there I should I should really play it too and not on steam deck as I tried to do the show before

[01:10:29] should definitely try that on ps5 all right let's clear the board next game

[01:10:35] Mario tennis aces guys Mario tennis aces over or under three million copies Steve

[01:10:47] toughy huh what do you think Evan things were pretty huh I'm on the fence with that one too

[01:10:54] I'm gonna say I'm gonna say over on that one slightly over okay I will also say over

[01:11:01] all right both of you're going over we're gonna lock it in locking in okay final answer here we go

[01:11:10] Mario tennis aces has sold 4.5 million copies so it's definitely gone over that

[01:11:15] I remember when like I don't know in his first year it sold like just under two I think it was

[01:11:19] like 1.7 or 1.8 so that's why I looked it up and I was like oh it kind of went a lot past that

[01:11:25] over over time so I'm glad I was glad to see that I don't know if I ever told you guys this or not

[01:11:30] Matthew was oh yeah I don't maybe like five when that game came out I don't what what year was that

[01:11:37] 2018 18 yeah 18 okay so he would have been like four or five at that time and he

[01:11:45] won he wanted more than anything in his whole life the plastic rackets to be able to play

[01:11:50] that game with motion controls and we wound up fucking buying them because he wanted them so bad

[01:11:58] I just remember being obsessed with that game because you can break because the rackets could break

[01:12:02] and that was an alternate win yeah win condition and I was just in love with the game for that

[01:12:08] yeah if you're right out of rackets the fuck off there was a game I played I think you

[01:12:14] Steve you remember the shown-in-jump thing Prince of tennis remember that yeah I never played it though

[01:12:19] yeah I had I had one of those games or DS I imported it actually and you could lose that way too

[01:12:24] if you broke enough rackets fuck off like you're you're done all right next game

[01:12:32] Octopath Traveler Octopath Traveler Steve over under three million copies

[01:12:39] I feel like I should know this one because I follow them across everything oh

[01:12:49] I'm not waiting for Steve I'm throwing my hatch in over over okay over just barely

[01:12:56] both you're going over we're locking it in both over locking it in okay lock it in

[01:13:01] oh

[01:13:04] Octopath Traveler his soul 2.16 million

[01:13:10] I can't remember I didn't see the art celebrating three million because that's what they do

[01:13:16] I know right all right next game

[01:13:19] yeah

[01:13:22] sackboy a big adventure the PS5 launch a platformer game sackboy over under three million copy Steve

[01:13:32] I'm gonna say under under okay oh that one's really hard because I mean it's a no-one

[01:13:40] property but coming out as a launch game obviously there wasn't that many people with PS5s at the time

[01:13:46] how many people went back and actually bought that game after the fact

[01:13:50] That's a question yeah I need to go under under okay both you under we're gonna lock that in

[01:13:58] No I'm not locking it in I'm going over I'm going over it started it

[01:14:03] I said I said stop before it was locked

[01:14:07] I don't know we're locking it in

[01:14:10] I got I locked it over all right fine fine we'll let you I don't care this is a funny sad effect okay you

[01:14:16] want over um you shouldn't have done that because sackboy a big adventure sold 1.2 million copies

[01:14:25] Actually I don't think I don't think I think I was locked in when you first said

[01:14:29] all that belly

[01:14:38] All right oh man the sandboards getting a workout today all right next game

[01:14:46] We music we music over under three new copies okay why is this so funny we use it why is that funny

[01:14:56] because it's all

[01:15:01] Just the like I don't know there's something comical about even like entertaining whether we music

[01:15:08] should have sold three million copies oh it should definitely shouldn't have

[01:15:12] I know I just why are we leaving this is washing it in okay he's locked it in and over over for Steve

[01:15:19] What do you think Evan yeah I think I think it did too I'm going over as well

[01:15:25] I think that just enough people had weas that just you know saw that and thought oh that that might be interesting

[01:15:32] All right we're gonna lock him in I don't care what you say I'm not double checking with you we're locking it in

[01:15:40] I felt bad about this one because it's just under it's 2.93 million

[01:15:47] It did not quite get to 3 million just a little little bit off

[01:15:53] But hey I you know honestly I'm surprised it sold that much I was expecting something a lot closer to 2

[01:16:00] Because it was so it was so critically destroyed and like nobody I knew had it but the we audience didn't care about that

[01:16:06] They'd see the me's on the cover and they would have bought it

[01:16:10] One of the best selling Wii games isn't it like carnival games or something like that? Yeah, so like people don't give a fuck

[01:16:17] Yeah, that's what I just feel like so many Wii purchases were driven off of like seeing it on the shelf

[01:16:22] The store and not what critics had to say I agree. Yeah, it's all shit talk about an era where that box art mattered right all right next game

[01:16:32] Got a few more here did you clear the board you didn't see you I did okay? I'm sorry. I'm clearing the board

[01:16:37] Clear's the board Kevin I'm clearing the board I know later he has to say it

[01:16:40] He's right now Kevin's right we're clearing the board next game right now

[01:16:46] Kind of fucking Mickey Mouse game is this a contestant scutter remind the host to clear the board

[01:16:50] Bullshit ass game can't even clear the goddamn board. What a bullshit game

[01:16:54] You had one job clear the goddamn board. I'm gonna do it one more time for good measure

[01:17:01] All right, it's clear all right Yoshi's crafted world

[01:17:05] Yoshi's crafted world over under three million copies Steve or Kevin

[01:17:12] Over going under on that one over Steve

[01:17:16] Overlocking in thought Kevin under

[01:17:20] Under possibly locking in well, we're locking it in

[01:17:26] 3.35 million copies so just just basically barely went over

[01:17:33] All right, we got a couple more let's let's go through them. Let's clear that board

[01:17:38] Blue Dragon

[01:17:40] The Xbox 360

[01:17:42] Accuratorium a classic if you will blue dragon how much the blue dragon sell worldwide Steve over or under three million copies

[01:17:54] Kevin going over for that one over all right, we're walking it in

[01:18:01] Blue Dragon sold 920k worldwide

[01:18:05] So I was shocked I was floored to see that

[01:18:11] All right, it's like a Japanese game exclusive to Xbox. I mean

[01:18:16] I thought it sold a lot I thought a sold a lot more here. I guess is what I

[01:18:21] Thought happened, but I guess not

[01:18:24] I thought there was like a fair amount of word of mouth yeah

[01:18:28] That shocked me and they were all trading the same discs to each other. I mean what can you say?

[01:18:34] I did I did let Patrick borrow my blue dragon now that you mentioned it. I did kind of pass around my

[01:18:41] To at least two different people

[01:18:45] So you okay, you got me fine. Let's let's forget about my sense of the past clear the board and we'll do one last one

[01:18:54] Warioware smooth moves a game near and dear to all of our hearts to that game sell over or under three million copies

[01:19:02] Warioware smooth now to a sold over okay

[01:19:06] Steve yeah

[01:19:08] Overlocking again

[01:19:10] Okay, let's do it final answer. Let's let's have okay just just for funsy for the last one Steve what what's your guess at what it's old? Yeah

[01:19:17] Oh

[01:19:19] Maybe four million just because of when it came out

[01:19:23] Okay, what's your guess I'm gonna say 5.5 all right

[01:19:28] We're gonna lock in those answers over and those numbers

[01:19:35] All y'all are wrong. It's sold 2.35 million copies

[01:19:39] So

[01:19:40] If worldwide so that's what I'm missing out yeah, all right. That was fun. That's a hard fucking game

[01:19:47] It's tough right we'll have to we'll have to try to game with another number

[01:19:50] Okay, if you want to do this again, what what threshold should we do for sales like should we go high?

[01:19:55] Like really high like 15 million 1 million oh so we might get some like

[01:19:59] I think that be a six in there

[01:20:01] Mm-hmm

[01:20:02] That's a good one

[01:20:04] Let's do a bonus one

[01:20:05] I didn't include this in the list because I couldn't verify it's um

[01:20:08] Veracity for games that are really that old but chrono trigger by all accounts

[01:20:13] I did find the numbers on chrono trigger. What do you guys think over under three?

[01:20:16] So we're not we're not talking like ps1 ds super into only just just super

[01:20:25] I know what a bunch of landmarks say, but I'm gonna say under okay

[01:20:29] Yeah, I think I'm gonna go under on that too. It was under the reported numbers were 2.5 mil

[01:20:34] So and I was honestly shocked it was that much. I didn't even think it was that they didn't make that many copies

[01:20:39] I had to get mine used

[01:20:41] They probably did gangbusters in Japan and like you're up and here it probably didn't do too much

[01:20:47] But like also was 80 goddamn dollars. I mean like look. I mean

[01:20:51] What are you gonna do? You can't really sell that many of them right?

[01:20:54] Yeah, I know with I know there's like a figure that went around the scene

[01:20:57] It's the 20th best selling super Nintendo game. Well you might have been able to sell a few more if you printed something

[01:21:03] I don't think too many people are buying a Japanese RPG at that time with that kind of art at 80 bucks

[01:21:10] But what do I know anyway that concludes find times over under game

[01:21:17] What a great title for a game

[01:21:19] You can't you can't talk over the game ending music

[01:21:22] How dare you just did oh my god

[01:21:26] You didn't even clear the board when we were playing

[01:21:30] Making up fucking rules about music

[01:21:33] Almost as bad as when they said octopus traveler isn't the final title and then they came back to us and said

[01:21:38] Guys octopus traveler is in fact the final title. No, they said project

[01:21:44] Octopath traveler right what's not

[01:21:47] Final title

[01:21:49] All right, no lies were told I got one more thing. I kind of wanted to throw out here and

[01:21:55] It's a segment we do infrequently called fuck I was wrong because we need to admit one more wrong in the air

[01:22:02] When we've really gotten something wrong one of our opinions that we changed later

[01:22:06] I think the first time we did this Kevin admitted that he really likes super Mario Galaxy

[01:22:10] Because before he came on here and said it was not good or he didn't like it or whatever and he's like fuck

[01:22:14] I was wrong that game is fantastic, right

[01:22:18] Steve do you remember or previous fuck I was wrong if yours a oh not off handle I had something

[01:22:23] Yeah, see I can't I can't remember yours

[01:22:25] But and I've had I've definitely had my fair share of my own and I definitely have one today

[01:22:30] And I want to admit it to the people a few shows ago a few big deals ago

[01:22:34] I should say we covered the remake of Mario versus Donkey Kong

[01:22:38] We loved it. We talked all about it

[01:22:41] Ever since that game came out came out what Donkey Kong 94 obviously came out in 94

[01:22:47] Mario versus Donkey Kong came out in 2004 is 10 years later different technology

[01:22:51] You were using pre-renders it was a Game Boy Advance etc. Right

[01:22:55] And I love that game too at the time and I love the remake

[01:22:58] And I always maintained that I liked Mario versus Donkey Kong more than Mario 94

[01:23:04] And mother fuck I was wrong. I've been playing Donkey Kong 94 again on the steam deck of the Game Boy emulation

[01:23:11] I am such a dumbass. I don't know why I ever said that Donkey Kong 94 is one of the best games of all time

[01:23:18] What the hell was I thinking that game is incredible

[01:23:21] Why would I ever say to Mario versus Donkey Kong is better than it and again

[01:23:25] I love that game and I loved it. I'd love to remake

[01:23:29] I do

[01:23:30] Donkey Kong 94 is on such a level see and that's what I want to stress here

[01:23:34] It's not that I'm downgrading Mario versus Donkey Kong

[01:23:36] I'm elevating Donkey Kong 94

[01:23:39] Everything in that game is so spot on perfect even like you know

[01:23:45] I was thinking of Steve as I often do in bed at night and I was playing when I was playing this game on the steam deck

[01:23:52] And

[01:23:53] You know how like every cutscene in that game shows you how to play the game

[01:23:57] Like, you know, oh it's Mario chasing him off again. Oh, Donkey Kong soon to do another trick

[01:24:03] Hey, guess what you're gonna do in the next level not a big old text box to tell you what you do

[01:24:08] Oh, they were showing through gameplay imagine that I get they did that because of console limitations

[01:24:13] But maybe we should just keep doing that

[01:24:15] Not that and look. I'm not as tutorialed versus Steve is I

[01:24:19] I basically what I'm trying to say is

[01:24:22] Donkey Kong 94 is so clever in such a way that it's unparalleled

[01:24:26] I don't I mean I

[01:24:28] Hadn't really played the game much. It's a came out and I probably should have

[01:24:31] I should have never made a statement like that without playing it again

[01:24:35] And now I'm playing it again and I see I was wrong. It's pretty much the same way I came across

[01:24:40] To my wrong opinion of I used to think Mario world is better than Mario 3

[01:24:46] Until we virtual console happened and then I played both again

[01:24:49] I was like what the fuck am I thinking Mario 3 is like the best game of all time why why did I ever think Mario world is better

[01:24:55] You know the same same kind of revelation so fuck I was wrong

[01:24:59] I'm sorry Donkey Kong 94 you were the goat. I've played Donkey Kong 94 for like 20 minutes one time years ago

[01:25:08] Maybe I should

[01:25:11] Yeah, you really and I mean you know I was like oh

[01:25:14] This is pretty fun and then I just never turned it on again, but it sounds like I'm missing out yeah

[01:25:18] Yeah, Kevin you're missing out

[01:25:21] Steve Steve has that see this is supposed to be a judgment for his own, but Steve has had the I told you so face on

[01:25:28] The whole time I've been talking you just want to unleash on me and when I get out of your system

[01:25:33] No because you don't want to hear what I was wrong about

[01:25:36] Oh, you have a fuck I was wrong as well. Yeah. Oh, I oh I do okay go for it guys

[01:25:42] I thought we were all on the same team with ball and wonder world

[01:25:45] I figured guys this sucks. We're not gonna ever no one's ever gonna want to defend a game

[01:25:50] Made by a guy who's committing

[01:25:52] You know inside or trading and it's literally sitting in jail right now

[01:25:56] But I'm going through a algorithm internet on Twitter the other day and I found

[01:26:01] Three years ago today

[01:26:03] Ballad wonder world one of the greatest most understood games of all time was released

[01:26:09] And oh boy more people should give it a chance like this is sarcasm right and but no I'm going through the thread

[01:26:17] Then I'm reading more people's appaise. Yeah, this game is actually pretty good

[01:26:21] I love how there's only one action button for everything

[01:26:25] And I'm just going through is like what what happened here

[01:26:29] What I thought we were all on the same team with this I thought we were all at agreement that this is awful

[01:26:34] And I have no idea why I'm bringing this up right now in particular nope

[01:26:38] No, not at all

[01:26:42] Look okay. I have a few things to say about this one

[01:26:45] I get that you may have lost too many bets some place your bets and you may be doing something right now

[01:26:51] That you don't want to do

[01:26:52] But number two

[01:26:54] This is this is a segment fuck I was wrong is supposed to met our personal failing

[01:26:59] It's not you arguing with people on the internet

[01:27:02] That's something you're supposed to have it something maybe he's

[01:27:05] You were maybe he's foreshadowing though that when he

[01:27:09] Reviews valent wonder world for us that he's like actually guys. It's pretty good

[01:27:13] I

[01:27:14] Will heavily debate whether to air such a segment on on fine time

[01:27:18] I don't know if we can I mean you and I have just played the demo. We haven't played the whole game

[01:27:23] That would make Steve the de facto expert

[01:27:26] I'm not actually played the game yet, but oh

[01:27:30] We okay

[01:27:30] We haven't played the game, but we have you know what I mean like

[01:27:38] Yes, Steve is waiting to formally lose the bet before he plays the ballot wonder world game

[01:27:44] Kevin make me feel better

[01:27:45] And that one of your I do actually and and this isn't this isn't a deeply

[01:27:50] Solacious fuck I was wrong, but I was wrong about something

[01:27:54] I loved wind waker when it came out

[01:27:56] But I've definitely been one of those people that would say yeah the try force chart hunt at the end

[01:28:02] Was definitely a low point and drug the game down. I recently replayed wind waker

[01:28:08] Roughly about a month ago. You know what if you

[01:28:12] Okay, so the way I played that and I didn't go out of my way to not explore throughout the game

[01:28:17] But I certainly didn't like cover off the whole map

[01:28:20] When I I waited and I did that part of the game at the end when I was getting the charts

[01:28:26] And you know, I needed to load up on on rupees to get my

[01:28:30] um get my maps deciphered

[01:28:33] And it felt very natural. It really didn't bog the game down at all anytime

[01:28:37] I would be defending why I and I still do think Twilight Princess is a better game than wind waker

[01:28:42] I probably would have referred to it being a slog at the end, but

[01:28:46] I retract that I was I was wrong about that and I think

[01:28:51] People love to harp on the end of wind waker for that reason and I think they're wrong too

[01:28:57] Yeah, you know

[01:28:58] And I've said that when we've talked about wind waker

[01:29:01] Here and there. I've never minded that part

[01:29:04] I was so surprised people complained about that now. I'm sure

[01:29:08] This is written to Nintendo lore everyone knows this from the original Japanese version of wind waker

[01:29:14] They did tone down the trifor stuff for us

[01:29:16] So it's already different for our version in North America

[01:29:20] I don't know exactly the differences now in the Japanese version, but it was more arduous

[01:29:24] I don't know if there's more pieces or what

[01:29:27] But for for our version they actually streamlined it a bit

[01:29:31] And now I think from what I understand I'm like

[01:29:33] Will wind waker HD you maybe you guys can tell me they even further

[01:29:38] Yes, they did streamline it a bit further

[01:29:40] But honestly I didn't mind going treasure hunting either

[01:29:43] I was doing it the whole time anyway getting my charts looking for the spots and sending my crane down to get the check

[01:29:50] It was fun

[01:29:51] Yeah, we were having where we're going on a treasure hunt in the big ocean

[01:29:55] What's wrong with you people

[01:29:57] Exactly. I've never minded that part

[01:29:59] So when people said that about the game

[01:30:00] I was like I don't know

[01:30:01] It didn't take that long either really

[01:30:04] I think I let the public's opinion like drag me down as well

[01:30:08] Yeah, it's a and again

[01:30:10] I always thought it was a weird opinion

[01:30:12] I never felt that way and I like I said

[01:30:14] I had so many like charts and I was doing that stuff anyway

[01:30:18] It wasn't that big a deal

[01:30:20] I will say after wind waker HD

[01:30:22] having to manually change the direction of the wind every time was a bit of a pain in the dick

[01:30:27] It's certainly not a deal breaker

[01:30:28] But that was a good change in wind waker HD

[01:30:31] Oh, so you can

[01:30:32] So what is it doing wind waker HD? You just kind of like

[01:30:35] You get a

[01:30:36] I remember right

[01:30:37] You can like after the fact get like the magic sale where you can just fucking have wind behind you all the time

[01:30:43] You get a super sale on whatever do yeah

[01:30:45] Whatever direction you're facing

[01:30:46] That's the wood

[01:30:47] Oh

[01:30:48] I mean that's that probably should have just been in the game

[01:30:52] It was to begin with you know

[01:30:53] I get like

[01:30:54] I get that they wanted to make the player do that somewhat change direction of the wind

[01:30:58] You're using the

[01:31:00] The thing to do the thing right

[01:31:01] I get it but at some point you'd be like okay

[01:31:03] They did that enough here. Here's the sale

[01:31:06] Right so I'm glad a wind waker HD realized that

[01:31:09] All right

[01:31:10] I think

[01:31:11] We can get out of here

[01:31:13] We're leaving

[01:31:14] Look in the description of this podcast to find all of our names on social media

[01:31:17] And we'll see you next time bye