Geek Addicts - Episode 63: Discussing Batman 89!

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, welcome to Geek Addicts. Hello and welcome to Geek Addicts, the pop culture podcast where we talk about throwing dudes in leather jackets off of as many buildings as we possibly can. My name is Matt, with me the Caped Crusader himself, Bill Barber. How's it going, Bill? I'm Batman. I'm doing alright. It's two days after Christmas. I'm very tired because I'm always very tired. Yeah, I feel that. Yeah, it's been a...

[00:01:05] It's been a good week or so since we last recorded. I think. I don't even remember when we last recorded, that's how... I think we did Saturday last week, so it's been a little bit under a week, but yeah, same difference. Yeah, it's one of those wonderful times where everything's all over the place, but hey, it's another day and we're past the holidays, now we're just got to get through the rest of the year. Did you enjoy your Christmas present?

[00:01:35] I did. She's back there. Nice. See her on the Spy Family Show. Yeah, you know, it was really funny. Sydney told me about it after the fact because she went looking for something for you while she was out because, you know, she was very grateful about you treating us when we were visiting. And I guess she was in GameStop and she went up to the desk and she said, excuse me, do you have any waifus?

[00:02:09] She said, in her exact words, she got you a tasteful waifu. So there you go. That's good. I mean, that sums up your... Yeah, I'd say so. For sure. Alex enjoyed her gift as well. Good. I'm glad. Or the sweets or...

[00:02:34] I'm assuming the sweets. She hasn't really looked at the stuff yet, but she's been busy. Fair enough. Yeah, so in case anybody listening can't tell, this is being recorded just a few days after Christmas. So do you get anything cool this year? A lot of gift cards. I got a couple games. I got Metaphor finally. Nice.

[00:03:02] And the new yeast game. I got yeast 10. So that's fun. Alex got me the second volume of the Suzume manga and she got me like the little Suzume nendoroid figure. So that's fun. Ooh, that's cool. Very nice. Nice. I got the new Inkheart book. Nice. It just came out like last month.

[00:03:29] And I got Sparking Zero, of course. And I've only cracked into that a little bit. I played a little bit with Xander and then I played a little bit on my own yesterday. But I haven't really had the opportunity to really dump any significant time into it. I also got Rebirth. Nice. At some point they'll be cracking into that. I had forgotten that that was a two-disc game. Yeah. That's fucking wild, dude.

[00:03:57] That in the PS5, Xbox Series X, like, point in gaming that we still have two-disc games. Now it's like they have one disc that downloads shit onto your console and then the other disc is the actual Playdisc. It's bizarre. But I already got that all downloaded and ready to go for whenever I'm ready to crack into it. So I think Xander still has to finish the DLC for Remake. But other than that, he's very excited.

[00:04:25] He actually got a Buster Sword for Christmas because he's been really digging FF7. Buster Sword is a cool sword. So he finished the main story and he's like, who is this black-haired guy? Who is Zack? I'm like, I can't tell you. He's just like, I just need to know who Zack is. I'm like, well, that sucks, dude. Because you either got to play through Rebirth and hope that you get the answers you want from that. Or play the original because I'm not fucking saying shit.

[00:04:52] Well, even in the original, you don't really get a lot of answers about Zack. Yeah, but if he played the original all the way through, then I'd let him play Crisis Core. True. Yeah, Crisis Core is really the only way you're going to get any info on Zack. Well, I'm inconclusive on how much they give you in Rebirth. True. Well, that's an alternate continuity. True. This is true.

[00:05:17] I mean, I have to imagine the base facts about him are accurate. So we'll see. We'll have to wait and see on that. I still don't really know what their end goal is with the remake, but I'm sure it'll be something. Fruit fly. But yeah, I'm excited to get into those. Yeah, aside from that, it's just been mostly gift cards and things of that nature.

[00:05:46] Yeah, I went out and hit up all the bookstores yesterday because I got an E&N card and I got a Newbery Comics card. Very nice. A bunch of comics I want to read, so that'll be a... I got plenty of reading material for like a year, so that's all I'll say. You got enough reading material for more than that if you really crack down. Yeah. I stopped also...

[00:06:10] I love how comic shops just don't give a crap about release dates and they'll just put stuff out the second they get it. Because I found the new Black Clover volume, the new Sakamoto days, and the new Chainsaw Man. Very nice. We're all out weeks early. When's the next Spy Family supposed to come out? A couple weeks, actually. It's early January. It would be fun not to do that.

[00:06:36] Oh, so I had this idea, and I don't know if anybody listening wants to chime in at the Discord or anything, but I was thinking about it might be fun when... Obviously, these are coming out delayed anyway, so it's not like it's going to be up-to-date week-to-week. But I was thinking once Dima starts its dub, like officially on Crunchyroll, I think it'd be fun to do a little segment at the beginning, like if we watch it week-to-week,

[00:07:04] and do a little 15-minute segment at the beginning of every episode, just talking about the newest episode before we get into the main topic. It'd be fun. I'd have to wait on it, but... Yeah, I'd be down there. Do you have to wait on it? We'd have to wait a few more weeks just because it's still... Oh, well, yeah, yeah. Still got a bit, but... Yeah, it's like, let's see, 27th? Like a week and a half, maybe two weeks.

[00:07:31] So, yeah, not super long, but I think that would be fun. Yo, the episode that came out today, like I literally like forgot that it was Friday for a minute, and then like maybe like an hour ago, I went and watched it, and I'm not going to say what it was, but something happened that long-term Dragon Ball fans had been waiting to happen in the canon for a very long time. And I can't speak for anybody else, but I would have expected if it was going to happen at all,

[00:08:01] it would have happened at Super. I was not expecting it to happen here in Dima. So, I'm kind of in shock about that. Anyone who's up to date and knows what episode I'm talking about, you know exactly what I mean. But we will get there when we get there as far as covering Dima. But yeah, that's... I can't believe it. I'll continue to sit in suspense until the dub starts.

[00:08:31] It's just insane to me how much they're packing into 20 episodes. It's insane to me that people are still shitting on Dima. Because it has been fucking coming at the world in full force. Like, man. I'm into it. I'm into it. People like to complain. Especially Dragon Ball fans. Yeah. Maybe that's why One Piece keeps coming out on top. It's because Dragon Ball fans keep fighting each other, and One Piece is just sitting over their corner laughing.

[00:09:00] They're on a pirate adventure looking for the meaning of friendship. They're looking for something. They don't even know what it is. I'm convinced. We'll find it eventually. I am fully convinced that the One Piece is literally just going to be like, it wasn't about the treasure, it was about the friends we made along the way. I still like Slay's idea that there was something stuffed in the hat band at the straw hat, and that was the One Piece all along. He just had it the whole time. I'm going to laugh. When they find the One Piece, they open the treasure chest, and it's just a picture of a middle figure.

[00:09:31] That would be the best fucking possible ending ever. I think they would burn Japan down, honestly. Honestly, if that actually happened, that would be the point where I'd be like, okay, One Piece is the best. Hands down. I think Alex would personally fly to Japan just to burn the place down. Oh, man. She'd be knocking on Oda's door. Yeah.

[00:10:01] She'd be very upset about that. I'd love it. I'd love it. I think that was amazing. Amazing. The One Piece is going to literally just be an end page that just says to be continued in Two Piece. God. I don't know if Oda would have enough life in him afterwards to commit to a sequel. Well, that's the thing. It's a false sequel. It doesn't actually happen. They just leave everyone on suspense forever. Fair.

[00:10:30] All right. That would be evil, wouldn't it? A little bit, but it'd be pretty funny. Yeah. We need more magikas that just troll the audience. Yeah. The ones that just don't give a shit. Now that Toriyama's gone, we need somebody to take up that mantle. Just troll everybody as hard as we can. Yeah. Other than that, though,

[00:10:58] I have not been watching any anime recently. I haven't for the past week. Yeah, I just, I didn't want to commit to anything. I only had like two days of work this week, so I didn't want to commit to anything specific. And then it was all Christmas stuff. Yeah. I've been mostly just kind of hanging out. Whenever I have time to like sit down and do anything, I'm like, no, I'm going to play Sparking Zero. Yeah.

[00:11:29] I've been, I've been mostly just sleeping or catching up on other things. Doing a lot of, doing a lot of minor stuff like, um, cleaning and stuff around the house. Mostly just catching up on stuff that I haven't been able to do. Oh, you'll be happy to hear, Bill. Uh, Cindy is now officially three hours into Persona 4 Golden. Oh, nice. She started it. She's, she's invested now. Well, once you get, once you get through Yukiko's dungeon, that's basically the point where like,

[00:11:58] there's no going back. Hmm. Well, she's not quite there yet. She, I think she's only like just now getting the part where the Persona unlocks. Nice. But I mean, she's, she was invested enough to go through three hours of just reading text and wandering around a town. So. Yeah. That opening is, I love Persona 4, but I will say that opening is a little too long for what it is. Yeah. It's a slow burn. It's a very slow burn. Well, especially on repeat playthroughs,

[00:12:27] which there will be repeat playthroughs. Hmm. Um, but that's good though. But yeah, she seems to be enjoying it so far. She likes Nanako. She thinks she is weird. I mean, fair. Yeah. It is weird, but she's also a lovable weird. Hmm. Every character in that. I mean, to be fair, every character in Persona 4 is kind of weird, but they're all like lovable in that weird sort of way. And she's at that early stage, where now she's, she suspects everyone. Like everyone is a suspect.

[00:12:57] I mean, let's be real. Spoiler warning for anyone who hasn't played it. But, um, if you don't suspect, well, obviously she'll probably hear this. I won't say, but if you don't suspect who it is, no, she won't. Maybe. You never know. You never know. Um, yeah, but if you don't suspect who it is, um, early on, the shock towards the end is pretty interesting. Cause he is not subtle in the slightest. Hmm. No, I,

[00:13:27] I caught onto that real fast. I was like, this dude is too sketchy. Like, he is way too happy. I don't like it. I just love the fact that you can accuse Nanako at the end. Like, I love that meme. It just shows her like the, the like distorted psycho faces. She's like, Hey, you caught on big brother. Yeah. You can legit use anybody in the game. And it's just a really funny dialogue. And they'll be like, what the fuck? No.

[00:13:57] But yeah, I'm, I'm excited to see how that goes. If she sticks with it, I want to see her reactions to it. I even sacrificed sparking zero time to let her play on the TV. That's, that's important right there. Shows you how much I wanted to like it. Yeah, no, I get that. Um, yeah, I think other than that though, uh, you want to get into our topic for this episode? Sure. So if you didn't,

[00:14:26] guess from our, well, if you didn't read the title and you didn't guess from our little intro there, we're going to be talking about man, 89, ignore those up, ignore those other three films. They don't matter right now. Um, yeah, we're talking about Batman 89, the obvious, the 1989 film by, uh, Tim Burton famously starring Michael Keaton, Jack Nicholson, and him, uh, Basinger. Um,

[00:14:56] obviously based off of Batman. Mm. Uh, this film predates both of our existences. So that's always fun. Not by too much, but you know, enough, enough that, enough that it's still, still old enough that like, we obviously don't have recollection of it. Like, I'm pretty sure the first Batman film I have recollection of is Batman and Robin. Oh boy. I'm pretty sure for me, it's this one.

[00:15:23] I think this might be the first like legitimate superhero movie I ever saw. I just take memories of watching it at my dad's house when I was little. I meant more like, just, I remember seeing like advertisements on TV for like Batman and Robin was around that point. I probably saw returns first, honestly, because I have memories of seeing Michelle Pfeiffer, um, in the Catwoman suit. It wasn't anything. I'm sure you could tell her my, my eyes were directed at the time. Um,

[00:15:54] anyways, that being said though, Batman 89 is a interesting film in a lot of ways. Like, I still think that cover is incredibly iconic. Just like the bat logo. Hmm. For sure. And I remember like, I remember for like years, like, um, I'd be like reading about the backstory behind this film. Like, I remember like people actually like, weren't sure like Michael Keaton, it like was actually like fit for the role.

[00:16:23] Hmm. Cause he, at that point was most famously known for, he was like typecast in a lot of things. Like he was most famously known as Mr. Mom in that, that movie. Um, not familiar. That's one of his earlier films. And then, um, I think his other big performance that really kind of changed people's opinions was he was the original beautiful. He was Beetlejuice in the, uh, the live action movie. Hmm. Um, which I still haven't seen the sequel of yet.

[00:16:53] I've heard, I've heard good things and I've heard bad things. Like there's no in between. I mean, it's either people liked it or they absolutely hated it. That's about right. That's usually how it goes with those kinds of like, those kinds of sequels that come way, way, way later. So. Hmm. Also this film being a Tim Burton film, I I've always found really interesting cause Tim Burton, I mean, this is before the era where every one of his movies had Johnny Depp in it. Um, or those weird twisties.

[00:17:23] You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, it's like that, like, like, I think like ever since nightmare before Christmas is like, you always see those little twisties and all of his movies. Yeah. Yeah, you do. Um, it's like those Johnny Depp, Danny Elfman and his partner at the time were in like every one of the, one of his movies. Well, Danny Elfman was a significant in this movie. Also Prince forgot about that. Yeah. The, the bat,

[00:17:53] the Batman song. I always remember that. Um, yeah, Danny Elfman. That was very fitting with, uh, Jack Nicholson running around in that purple suit the whole time. It was like, okay, I see what they're doing here. Um, yeah. So I guess we could probably go into it a little bit. Michael Keating obviously plays the titular Batman, Bruce Wayne, uh, Jack Nicholson famously plays the Joker. Although this is a very different Joker from the normal comic one. And then, uh, Kim, uh,

[00:18:20] Basinger plays Vicki Bale in like the one film she appears in. Um, yeah. So this movie is interesting. Cause like as a film, I still love this movie, but as a Batman movie, like I still always say, this is like one of the worst Batmans just in terms of, in terms of the character. Cause I mean, Michael Keaton's performance is great. Like he does a great job,

[00:18:47] but fuck the run is the direction for Batman in this film is so fucking insane. Like he kills people left and right, like throws people off buildings. Well, well, I, I was like kind of trying to pay attention to that. Cause we were talking about that recently. And I was trying to pay attention as we were, as I was watching the movie. And like, I, I noticed that it seemed to me that it wasn't until like more towards the end with like the, the whole cathedral stuff, um, that he started just like not giving a shit and throwing people off the building.

[00:19:17] Well, they kept him in character early. He even tried to pull Jack Nicholson up before he fell into the bat of chemicals. So like he was, he was trying at the beginning. And then he hit a point where he just said, fuck it. Yeah. Um, we're probably not going to go note for note plot wise of this film. Cause I mean, this film has been seen by most people. Most people understand. I want to do, it'd probably be better to just cover like the more key moments of it. Cause to be honest, plot wise, there's not a lot in this film. Plot wise.

[00:19:47] Well, it's kind of hard to follow a specific plot where the Joker is involved. Cause his whole thing is kind of chaos. Well, it's very interesting. Cause like Jack Nicholson, I like as a Joker, but like he spends the entire film just dancing around doing fuck all. But I love every second of it. Like to me, like the most ridiculous scene in this movie is like Batman's coming in on the back wing and he pulls out this giant fucking gun.

[00:20:16] It's comically large gun. It takes him out in one fucking shot. I was like, no, the whole time I'm watching this, I'm just like, no, I absolutely loved it. I was losing my shit when he pulled that shit. And it was like right out of the crotch too. It was like a fucking three foot barrel of a pistol. And then later on, he just kind of like a fucking plastic lightsaber. He just fucking.

[00:20:45] And then continues just dancing again in the fucking street. Yeah. It's amazing. It is such a weird movie. It's such an eighties film. Like I will say like, Hmm. I also love how Jack Nicholson got the top billing in this film. Like he's so much over like everyone else. Yeah. It doesn't surprise me though. I mean, Jack Nicholson is one of those guys. Yeah. It's very interesting too, because this film goes very much against like the Batman cannon. Like,

[00:21:14] like famously Batman's parents were killed by Joe chill, but in like this movie, they instead made it Jack Napier, who is this, this universe's Joker. They actually give the Joker like a backstory in this film, even though like in most continuities, his entire backstory is that he, his backstory is unreliable, which I found very interesting. They kind of were, they, they, they were playing very fast and loose with the cannon, which was fine for, for a movie at the time.

[00:21:45] Yeah. Cause like Joe chill famously, like, or not Joe chill, Jack Napier, like is like the, he's like the primary antagonist for the first half of the film. Then he famously falls into the vat of chemicals and becomes the Joker. I did enjoy the fact that like, he has this arc for a while where he's like, because his face got all fucked up. He had to like get his like face reconstructed. So he's got that permanent smile now. But then he's also wearing normal makeup to like hide the fucking, the clown pig,

[00:22:14] the clown makeup. Makes it really like unsettling to see. Oh yeah. Like that scene where he like his, his demand, like, he's like, I want my face on the hundred dollar bill. Like that scene is so fucking creepy. Yeah. I love the, the one scene. I don't remember exactly what happened when, when Vicky Vale throws the water in his face and he's like, I'm melting. And she's like,

[00:22:43] she's like buying it too. And it's just, I don't know. He's just such a fucking cheese ball throughout the whole movie. And I, I'm just so here for it. Yeah. It was, it's, it's very, it's a very interesting portrayal of the Joker. It's definitely not my favorite. Like I'd still take a Heath Ledger's performance over anyone, but yeah, I mean, that was just, that was, that was a pure chef's kiss performance. If the performance was so good, it literally killed him. So I mean, yeah.

[00:23:14] Another interesting casting in this film is a Billy D Williams. He has a very minor role as Harvey Dent before he was two face, which is a little upsetting that he didn't carry over until there was actually a two phase. He was supposed to, and then like they recast him for forever. Cause apparently it was in Tim Burton's plan. And he was going to be two face in one of the future films, but then Tim Burton famously left the project.

[00:23:42] Cause people thought returns was too dark. It's fucking Batman. I mean, well, I mean, only for the dark night to come out a couple decades later and just fucking blow everybody's mind with how dark it is. And they always love it. True. Although to be fair, like this was like the, cause Batman before 89 was famously like the, the last Batman project that most people remembered was like Adam West, Batman. So,

[00:24:12] um, yeah, it was also like they marketed returns to kids for some reason. Like there was like toys and like or something like that. That's weird. Yeah. It was an odd choice, especially because that movie is very dark. Also incredibly sexual at points. Yeah. Yeah. And then Danny DeVito just being Danny DeVito. Um, also Christopher Walken, Christopher Walken was in that movie too.

[00:24:42] Oh, there was a big cast in that movie. Was he? Yeah. He played, he's the guy that throws Michelle Pfeiffer out the window. No shit. I, it's been a long time since I watched that one. Um, yeah. So 80, another fun thing about 89 I was reading about was, during like the premiere, like it was one of the, so the, the co-creator of Batman, Bob Kane was still alive when this film came out. Um,

[00:25:12] and he had famously went to the premiere and Bob Kane was a fucking. Eccentric kind of douchebag. Um, he actually showed up in a fucking cape. Like, yeah, like being center of attention. Um, still refusing to acknowledge the, the co-creator of Batman who actually did everything, but that, that's a, that's a story for another day. Um, cause sadly, Bill Finger never got credited for this film. He, he wouldn't be credited until dawn of justice, like in 2015. So.

[00:25:42] Wow. That's crazy. Hmm. Try to see who else was, um, member in this film. Cause there was a bunch, like, I really liked the guy that plays Alfred. Yeah. He was, he was like a perfect Alfred. He's the, he is the only guy that is in all four of the, uh, movies in the first film series. Really? Yeah. He he's Alfred in all four of them. Everyone else changes like from place here and there. That's crazy.

[00:26:12] Michael Gah. He did a very good job. Yeah. I'd say he definitely like, he definitely like was able to portray the, the type of vibe you're supposed to get from Alfred. Hmm. Yeah. I still always think of, uh, that scene though, where, um, Michael Keaton is like walking down the pathway and he just grabs the guy and throws him off the building. And I was like, yeah, that's Batman. All right. Well,

[00:26:42] for me, it's like, like the, the one scene that always has stood out in my memory going all the way back to the first time I watched it was the museum, the whole, the whole museum scene where frigging like from the, from the moment she puts the gas mask on and then fucking Jack Nicholson just bursts in with a goddamn boom box. And he's just being a total cheese ball with all of his goons. And they're like defacing all the, all the art pieces and everything. Like, I don't know. It's just,

[00:27:12] and like they're going through. And then eventually like they, they like one of them goes to fuck up one of the paintings and Joker's just like, hold on, hold on. I actually kind of liked this one. Leave it. It's like the only one that he's just like, no, I think I'm taking this one. He was just such a interesting Joker. Like, like I know Jokers are always like a very, the, the thing about doing the Joker is like, it's always about the actor or like voice actor to like do their own take on the character. Nicholson's take is interesting.

[00:27:43] Um, I mean, live action wise, he, it's very hard to compete with, um, Ledger. Even, Joaquin Phoenix has very distinct like Joker vibe to him. Hmm. Um, yeah, I think the last live action Joker I've seen was in suicide squad. uh, Oh, not a fan of Jared Leto's trail where I feel, I think he went too fucking hard into it. And I was just kind of like, yeah, this doesn't work. You see, that's the, like they,

[00:28:11] they went like complete opposite spectrum to this movie where in this movie, like the Joker was very like old school gangster, like, you know, fucking long black coats type of fucking gangster. The more sadistic vibe of the character really is. Whereas the, the, the Jared Leto was like, like the, what you think of a gangster today and it just didn't work for me. Yeah.

[00:28:37] Like one of the reasons why Ledger's performance is so like lauded is the fact that like he really got that sadistic nature of the Joker, like his unhinged, like unpredictability. Like in this movie, it's mostly just Jack Nicholson dancing in the street and like just doing goofy shit. Like the entire movie, just fine. I mean, he does a great job. Um, it is, it's very interesting. Like I still always think of the scene where he falls like right at the end of the film where he falls from the, uh, the tower. He was dead.

[00:29:07] He just got that little like laugh machine in his pocket. Just continuing to laugh. Yeah. Um, it's funny too, because like he was supposed to reprise his role as the, uh, the Joker later on. Oh yeah. So there was the canceled fifth film in the series. There was supposed to be a third Joel Schumacher film. Um, but the, the horrible reception of Batman and Robin killed any chance of this ever coming out. Um, it was supposed to be called like Batman triumphant. And the, uh,

[00:29:37] the, the main villain was supposed to be say, uh, the Sandman or I think, um, no, maybe not Sandman. Who was the scarecrow scarecrow? That's what I think. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Um, it was supposed to be the scarecrow and the entire gimmick was he would see like hallucinations of like past stuff. And, uh, they were going to get Jack Nicholson to reprise the role of the Joker for hallucinations. That would have been awesome. It probably would have,

[00:30:05] but I'm not a huge fan of Joel Schumacher's direction. So like, I'm not sure how good it would have been. And I'm not sure who they would have got to play Batman. Cause Clooney wasn't it. I'm just going to say that now. Scarecrow was in one of the, um, one of like the dark night movies, wasn't he? I think he was in Batman begins. Okay. I couldn't remember which one it was. I knew, I, I knew I remembered seeing something. I don't know if it was actually one of the movies I watched or not, but cause I, I, I never saw rises.

[00:30:36] Yeah. That rises was Bane. Uh, he was the main villain of that one. Yeah. But it's not uncommon for there'd be more than one villain in any given superhero movie. True. I mean, there was two in dark night. True. Well, rises was like, it was Bane and then cat woman were the, the main, uh, two, characters. Gotcha. I am interested for when we, when we go into the more modern stuff, like seeing some of the newer ones.

[00:31:05] Cause I haven't seen like, I think dark night is like the most recent, like with the exception of like suicide squad, like the most recent live action DC movie I've seen. Oh yeah. Batman's in suicide squad for like three seconds. Yeah. Yeah. I was real fast, but I just meant like in general, any live action DC stuff, like I haven't seen past like dark night. Yeah. It's, it's interesting. Cause like dark night is still considered like one of the greatest superhero films of all time,

[00:31:35] but it's actually thinking about it now. I think Batman 89 is in all honesty, like the first, like truly like great superhero movie. Yeah, I'd say so. I can't, none of them really come to mind that came beforehand that were like, I mean, obviously we had like the, the Adam West movie and there was some days you just can't get rid of a bomb. And then there was the, there was a couple of Superman movies, wasn't there in the eighties? Right. Yeah. Okay. That's true.

[00:32:05] Superman two is a good film. I don't remember what exactly when those came out, but those were enjoying those. Actually, I think those were in the seventies. Oh, really? Cause I remember seeing, I think the first one or two, like probably right around the same time that I watched this Batman movie. It's always funny. Cause I always forget about the, the Christopher Reeve Superman films, which is funny because he's like the, one of the most famously known actors who played Superman.

[00:32:35] Yeah. Yeah. Superman two was 1980. So the original Superman was probably, was like the late seventies. Gotcha. All right. So I, I guess, you know, Superman probably. This is, this is the best Superman superhero film since Superman two. Cause fuck Superman three, fuck Superman four. That's what we suck. Um, then the two thousands came and started just really knocking them out of the park. Well, it's interesting though, because like Batman was really good.

[00:33:04] Batman returns was really good forever. Forever. Literally some days I like it. Some days I hate it. It depends on my mood. Uh, the Batman and Robin enough said, and then like, I don't think we get another great superhero. Cause I think that movie actually killed superhero movies up until Sony came out with Spider-Man. Uh, maybe X-Men. Maybe X-Men came first. They were so close together. Okay. That's true. I think Spider-Man was like 2002.

[00:33:34] Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. It was right around then when Marvel sold their soul to stay alive by giving away all their film rights. Giving away the best ones. Yeah. It's still biting them in the butt even today. Mm. Um, so yeah, I'm trying to think it's like some of the, like the, the really fun scenes in this movie. Um, I mean, obviously like, I love like the progression.

[00:34:04] Like once, um, he, like he makes the announcement of like, they go, Oh, I have all these different chemicals that I've put in these products. And you know, you don't, chances are you already bought them and they'll kill you and you'll die laughing and all this other stuff. But like, like the, like seeing the progression of the city, like from the original announcement to like them trying to figure out what's going on and seeing everybody just kind of go to shit, like not washing, not putting on makeup or anything like that.

[00:34:32] Like you see how it's affecting, although weirdly enough, like, you know, Bruce, uh, Bruce Wayne and Vicki Vale are both totally fine throughout that whole thing. Well, yeah, I mean, they didn't suffer. Their paychecks were higher than everyone else's. So yeah, but I thought it was fun to help. It ended up being like, Oh, well you have to use like this specific type of combination of products for it to work. Like they react with each other. Like I thought that was interesting. Yeah.

[00:35:03] The Joker's the whole plot in this film is bizarre. Like he's very much just kind of like, he actually has a goal because usually the Joker doesn't have a goal. He's just straight up an agent of chaos. Um, I mean, I guess you could say, I mean, his goal is to just kind of fuck shit up, but I don't know. I don't know if I, I, aside from just killing Batman,

[00:35:30] I didn't really notice like any one particular thing he was trying to accomplish. I decided just killing people and creating chaos. Yeah. Which is fine. You know, I'm totally up for that. This was also the film that started like the famous trend that wouldn't be addressed until Batman, um, the dark night where like he can't fucking turn his head. Like, yeah,

[00:35:57] that fucking bothered me is like the way that that mask was made. Like the, you are not turning your head. Like literally every Batman up until they made it an actual plot point in the dark night. Can't turn his fucking head. You're like, you are literally so fucking stiff, bro. Like, like he has to turn his whole body just to fucking look left and right. Like, no wonder that that one random goon was giving him so much trouble up on the cathedral tower. There is like,

[00:36:27] well, I guess do is step to the side a little bit. He's out of your range of vision. So it's always a very interesting dynamic, like to look at, um, cause you have, cause Batman is really two characters. Like Bruce Wayne and Batman are just like two entirely different personas. And it's always very interesting when an actor really nails both, both sides of the character. And I always thought Keaton did a very good Batman. And he also did a very good Bruce Wayne. Mm.

[00:36:58] I loved a lot of the, like the early scenes with, with, with Bruce Wayne where like, um, uh, the reporter guy was, was like walking around the house during the party with, with Vicki Vale. And, um, like they were just kind of like shitting on him. Like just being like, Oh, like, you know, frigging, was he compensating for all this other shit? Like as they're walking through and he just kind of like comes up behind them, like listening to their conversation. And he's just like, Oh yeah. Well, by the way, this and that. It's just like, Oh yeah. By the way, I'm Bruce Wayne. Like, yeah.

[00:37:29] Shit. And he just like totally cock blocked that other dude, like super bad the whole time. Like he's, he's trying to swoop in on Vicki there. And, and Wayne's just like, nah, man, step back. I don't think so. He cared so much that like, she doesn't appear ever again after this. They found very odd. They didn't even bring her back, but she gets mentioned in returns. But then other than that, Nope. It's been a while since I watched it.

[00:37:58] So I don't, I don't remember, but nah, she's only in this movie as the love interest of the week. It's about right. Yeah. Like I, I thought, I just always thought his, it's cool because he also does like one thing I think Batman actors do very well as they change the voice when they're doing Batman versus like Bruce Wayne. Hmm.

[00:38:23] And this was a much more subtle change than you'd see in some other. Well, the most, the most infamous is, is always going to be a. Christian Bale. Christian Bale, who is, he's a great Bruce Wayne. Fuck. I hate his Batman voice so much. I just can't not think of like that. Fucking those college humor videos. Yeah. It's like, I can't understand you.

[00:38:54] Where are the drugs going? That's one thing I will give a bat fleck credit for. He was much better between the two. Then Bale was, but I don't even hate Christian Bale's performance. I just, I just hate the voice so much. Well, I think it's just an extension of them trying to go with like a darker, grittier kind of vibe. And I think just doing that kind of voice was just trying to emphasize it, but.

[00:39:25] It just kind of comes off as goofy a little bit. Yeah. Like, I like the way the arrow handled it where he had like a voice changer that gave him that like kind of darker, like deeper voice. Oh, even like Robert Patterson did a much better job between the two. That voice is just, that's like the one, like really negative thing I have about the Christopher Nolan films. Cause I mean, you think then also you think like, I mean,

[00:39:53] we'll get into him in more detail when we cover these films later, but like George Clooney just played George Clooney, the entire film. Val Kilmer was okay, but he was kind of like, he was like a block of wood. Most of the, most of the movie, like he really didn't show a lot of personality. So another thing, like, what'd you think of the bat suit in this movie? It was a little much. A lot. It was way too cartoony.

[00:40:23] A lot of black. Same with, same with the Batmobile. It was super cartoony. I'll defend the Batmobile. I fucking love that Batmobile so much. I didn't say I didn't like it. I just said it's cartoony as fuck. Like, like it felt like, it felt like for a lot of the movie, they were trying to make it seem like, like realistic for the most part, like kind of grounded. And then you see that suit and the Batmobile and you're like, what the fuck is this? Okay. So I'm assuming you haven't watched forever returns in a long time.

[00:40:51] I haven't watched any of these movies in years. Okay. Not returns. So forever in Batman and Robin. Oh, wait until you see the Batmobile in those movies. So because they make this one look like, like the most grounded thing ever. Fair. I'm just saying like, everyone's riding around and like, like old school sedans and, and like, you know, the kind of shit you'd see in like Batman, the animated series, where it was clearly trying to go for like an older type of vibe. And then you just see that fucking monstrosity.

[00:41:20] It's just like activate shields. And it's just like, I love it. Like, I think that's like my favorite Batmobile designed. Cause like, I mean, the, the Tumblr was cool in like the dark night. Um, and like Batman begins, but like, it's just a tank. Like it's not the Batmobile. Fair. Um, yeah, I like it better. I mean, cause the, uh, the thing in the thing in forever and, and Robin is like the most colorful fucking thing ever. Like, it's like, this was clearly made to sell toys.

[00:41:51] Hmm. Uh, I will say the bat suit, a lot of black. Um, and then that giant yellow, just like target for, for, for like villains to shoot at. Hmm. It just like, like they made a, they made a point of being like, Oh, it's like, it's body armor, but it just looks like rubber. Like, I mean, I'm sure it is rubber, but like, it looks like rubber. Yeah. Well, there's a scene in returns where he like rips the mask off. And it like, just peels off like rubber. Yeah.

[00:42:22] It's just wild. Yeah. I mean, we, we don't have any bad ass shots like we do in forever. So that's like, that's always a plus. Although Batman did get laid in this movie. True. I thought it was like really like weird. Like, I mean, I guess it was kind of like an Alfred move to do that, but like, it literally just like we, we changed scenes and, and you see Bruce Wayne in the bat cave, just looking at videos or whatever.

[00:42:52] And then like, Alfred's just like leading Vicky up like, Hey, here she is. And he's just like, he's looking at him like, what the fuck, bro? I ain't going to blow up my spot like this. Yeah. And he was, he was originally planning on telling her anyway, but like, it's just like, dude, really? Yeah. Well, I always laugh because like, this was such a comic trope from back in the day. Like every like superhero had like a reporter girlfriend. I swear.

[00:43:20] That's because reporters don't know how to keep their fucking noses out of shit. I mean, it took Lois Lane. How long to realize Superman was Mark Kent was Superman. Hey, those are very convincing glasses. Well, ironically, like she didn't, she never even found out on her own. He told, he tells her and she's so shocked. She's so shocked by it. Like, she's like, so we have,

[00:43:50] go on. I was just going to say, I don't know how I felt about the scene where like, where the Joker, like pops into Vicky's apartment. Like when he was going to tell her about being Batman. And then he kind of goes on that like whole rant about like, Oh, I did this guy. And he, he went down a bad road and kind of lost it. Blah, blah, blah. And he starts like, then he just like break something. He's just like, Oh, you want to get nuts. And it's just like, this doesn't, this doesn't feel like Bruce Wayne. Yeah. Bruce Wayne move. Well,

[00:44:17] he's Batman is very off in this entire movie compared to his comic portrayal. But the everybody, to be fair, like everybody in this movie is kind of off. Hmm. We probably should talk about the Danny Elfman score though. Oh, it was fantastic. If anything from this film has aged gracefully, like even today, it is the Danny Elfman score.

[00:44:45] The music is fucking iconic. Oh yeah. It's one of those ones that like, you can't hear it and not know exactly what movie it's from. Oh yeah. Like to the point where like, you hear that, the Batman theme and you're just like, yes, I'm all for this. Yeah. It was fantastic. I was, I was vibing all the way through it. It was, it was great. Cause I'm trying to think like why, like the other films didn't really hit the same way that they didn't hit

[00:45:14] the same way that this one did. And I think it had to do a lot with the Danny Elfman score, not being retained. Cause I know he came back for returns. Cause that was also Tim Burton. And then I believe forever. Yeah. The forever, the music was Elliot, uh, Goldenthal who, who did a fine job too, but it wasn't the same. Yeah. And then, yeah,

[00:45:42] Elliot Goldenthal did the two Schumacher films. Then we had Hans Zimmer throughout the, uh, the returns. I mean, the, the begins, uh, I believe. And I like, I like Hans Zimmer's stuff too, but Danny Elfman's music is so fucking big band. And like extravagant, like it just, like if you played Lego, if you ever play Lego Batman, like the music, they just use the score from this film throughout the entire game. And it's just great. Oh, really? That's great. I haven't,

[00:46:10] I don't think I've ever actually played it like through, I think I have it on my Vita. If I don't have it on my Vita, I'm pretty sure I have it on my DS. I actually have the fun version of, uh, Lego Batman that comes with this film on Blu-ray. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just like one of those fun, fun little things. Oh man. Yeah. All in all, I, I really enjoy this movie.

[00:46:39] It's one of those ones that like it. And I haven't watched like any Batman movie in like a while. Like it's been a good few years since I've watched any Batman movies. And just like, this one is just always fun to go back to. It's interesting too, because this film also is responsible for essentially starting the DC animated universe. Really? Cause they actually began production of, um, Batman, the animated series right after this film, like film was finished, I believe because of the success.

[00:47:09] And Batman, the animated series to this day, I still believe is like the best version of Batman like ever. Yeah, I'd say so. That's another thing. Like, like if I ever walk into a room and I see Batman, the animated series playing, like I'm sitting down and I'm watching that. Like, Oh yeah. Like, as that kind of like spun off its own, like its own, like the connected animate animated universe. Oh yeah. The, the DCAU, like we will, we will do a whole episode on the DCAU at some point.

[00:47:39] Cause like those series are so fucking iconic. Like Batman, the animated series was great all the way through. We got Superman, the animated series. We got Batman beyond justice league, just the unlimited static shock. Zeta project technically for anyone who cares. Um, like the four people that watch that. Um, yeah, it all was because of this felt the success of this film. No kidding.

[00:48:09] See, Batman, the animated series is another one that I really want to get the DVDs for. Like I really, I want to get them for like all of these animated shows. I believe you can get a single box set of all of, Batman, the animated series now. Yeah. I saw it at Walmart, I think yesterday. And like, but I just dropped the money on the new computer. So I didn't, I couldn't justify if I didn't have to buy a new computer. I definitely would have, but you know, I'm so annoyed too, because like I went out of my way to track down those like four,

[00:48:39] which are very nice sets, but I bought the four box sets of all four seasons. Like, and then they just released like this one convenient, like, Oh, all in one. And I'm just like, that would have been nice. Yeah. Well, that's how I feel about fucking like Dragon Ball and shit. Like all these times, like, like when I first started collecting the, the orange boxes, like before I, you know, before I was aware enough to know how shit they were. Like I, I got them individually and I saw they started like releasing like,

[00:49:09] like two packs of them for like half the price. And, you know, by that point I was like, all right, I'm just going to get the Blu-rays. And I go to the Blu-rays. Now they're selling fucking like box sets with three seasons on Blu-ray. Yep. At Walmart for like super cheap. And it's like, God damn it. That's how they get you. I mean, I did, I did get this in a Walmart bargain bin for five bucks. So I think I have the same one from Walmart.

[00:49:39] Cause they used to always do those four film just sets. And it was like, I saw this there and I was like, Oh fuck. Yeah. It was this. And then I saw the Superman, the Superman one, which had all four of the, the Christopher Reeve films plus Superman returns. Cause why not? I guess. Fair enough. Oh yeah. Um, yeah. Other than that though, like Batman 89, great film. Hasn't aged the best, but I still love it. Um,

[00:50:08] it's still an incredibly entertaining watch. There are way worse superhero movies that are way newer that. Oh yeah. Wasting your time watching over this. Like I'll watch, I'll watch this movie before I watch, like, honestly, I'd watch this over a bunch of the Marvel, uh, universe films. Yeah. Agreed. I'd definitely watch it over most Superman films. Um, maybe I'd watch Superman two over this one. One and two anyways.

[00:50:38] Um, I definitely watched this over man of steel though. That's for sure. See, I never watched that one. So I, I, I'm, I'm actually looking forward to this being a more regular thing, watching these like live action, TC movies. And like, cause a lot of them that I missed over the years. And then there's a lot of like ones that I haven't watched in a long time. So it'd be fun going through them. Like all. Oh God. I was going to say,

[00:51:02] all I will say about man of steel is I really liked it when it came out, but as I've watched it successively over the years, I like it less and less every time I watch it. Um, you have a different perspective though. Cause you're not a hardcore Superman fan. Hmm. Me being a hardcore Superman fan. I watched that movie and just go. Say Superman. Yeah. See,

[00:51:31] I liked the concept of Superman when, like when I was a kid, but like, as I got older, I just made me, and I never read the comic. So maybe that's part of it, but I, that's the thing. I've been a hardcore Superman comic reader for years. So I've, I've seen the characters highs and lows. And I understand, I understand what makes Superman work as a character. So like when I watch man of steel, I'm like, Nope. Saying it. Um, that being said, Henry Cavill, great Superman. I wish,

[00:52:00] I wish he didn't get let go the way he did, but it is what it is. We also just think Henry Cavill is just a good actor in general. He is. And like, I always say like, he was not the problem with the DC like films at the time. Like he was a good Superman through and through. He just had horrible dialogue and acting to work with. He had horrible direction to work with. Um, um, yeah, no, I'm looking forward to doing more of these though.

[00:52:29] Like we'll definitely cover the problem with DC movies is unlike Marvel, where they're all very concise and put together. Well, DC movies are all over the fucking place because they, DC has a very bad tendency to, they'll try something. It won't go well. And they'll just give up and scrap everything. And then try again. Yeah. See Marvel has the other end of the spectrum where they're like, they'll keep going, whether it's working or not. And like, they might like switch it up and try to do something different,

[00:52:58] but they're going to stay on the same track either way. Yeah. Whereas. Yeah. Like I always forget. Cause like people always forget green lantern was supposed to be the start of the DC universe, like film universe. Um, like that was going to be their iron man. And then it bombed and they just gave up and said, Nope, nevermind. Um, and then made, um, man of steel instead. What would have been though? No, I can't imagine like how that would have gone. Like if,

[00:53:26] if they had just decided to push through and try to make it happen anyway, cause then I don't know if Ryan Reynolds would have been able to be Deadpool after that. I don't know if he was locked into green lantern. Like, I don't know if he would have even been able to move over to Marvel like that. See, that's the thing that, well, he had already been Deadpool before green lantern. So maybe if you want to call that Deadpool, I couldn't, I couldn't remember which one came out first. I'm pretty sure. X-Men origins came out first. Okay.

[00:53:56] Um, not that, not saying that was the greatest performance ever because let's face it, they fucked that up hard, but, um, even like pre like stitched mouth Deadpool, like it, that like he was a little mouthy, but he wasn't like Deadpool. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know. Green lantern is like that. That, that movie annoys me in the fact that like they, they gave up on it and it's not even that bad of a film.

[00:54:26] It's not, it's not a good film by any means, but it's not like you'll act like it's one of the worst superhero films ever made. I'm looking forward to covering. I've never actually watched it. So it'll be, it'll be fun. Um, yeah. It's just in general, like I'm, I'm looking forward to, to covering like more American geek culture stuff. Um, I mean, obviously I don't want to keep going with like the manga and anime and video game and stuff, but like, like I, I want to make it, you know,

[00:54:54] I want to be a little bit more generalized with like, I don't want to veer too much in one direction, you know? So it'd be, it'd be good to kind of spread out and cover a wider variety of things. I will say like a series that I'm just kind of starting to get into now that might be fun to cover is I just started, cause I had that Newbery comics, a gift card. I just bought the entire, uh, compendium of, uh, invincible. And I've heard the invincible series is fucking amazing. Oh yeah.

[00:55:24] And that's apparently like, that's it. One giant, like love letter to like American superheroes. And it's also, but it's also a much darker take on it, which I'm very interested in reading. So that could be a cool one to cover at some point. I still got to buckle down and watch the CW verse too. Yeah. Yeah. I,

[00:55:50] the sad part about the CW verse is like all those series start off great. And then they go on way too fucking long. And by the end, you're just like, let it die. Yeah. Like, that's why I was going to say, that's why Superman and Lois was like the perfect conclusion to the CW verse. Cause they literally, they ran it for four years. They ended it before it could get ruined. And it ended on such a high note. That's fair.

[00:56:20] It's actually kind of funny. The CW soup, the CW verse started with a Superman series. Well, they aren't part of the same universe, but they started with a Superman series and they ended with a Superman series. Hmm. Cause they started with Smallville. Smallville CW. Yeah. It was like CW's first. Like, well, I don't think they were CW at the time. I think they were still like WB, but. Gotcha. Gotcha. But yeah,

[00:56:48] I'm looking forward to doing more of this in the future. Hmm. Nah, totally. But other than that, yeah, we got about an hour out of this. So. He's hard to go into too much detail with, with these kinds of movies, especially when like so much has already been said about them. Yeah. This is also back before films were all films were like three hours long. So. Yeah, it's true. It wasn't a very long, I mean, it was two hours, which isn't short by any means, but it's two hours, but a lot of it is action sequences.

[00:57:17] So it goes by very quick. Hmm. For sure. That Jack Nicholson dancing in the street. Yep. Oh, what was that? Like fucking. I remember the, like it was, he's doing a lot of like deflecting with the Greaves. Yeah, he was, I don't know. I will never get over that fucking scene with the gun though. That scene just is like, what the fuck is this? For real. Like he just pulls it out. He's like, boom. Like. Just destroyed it. And you know, I did want to mention at one point,

[00:57:47] like, like, it made, like the movie made it seem like, like he, he crawled out of the vat and he went and got his face reconstructed, lost his shit. And then somehow in like the course of like, what? Like a week we'll say, like got all these crazy fucking joke, like deadly joke gadget weapons. Like I got this comically large pistol and fricking this like electric chair joke buzzer. And fucking, uh,

[00:58:18] I got a flower that shoots acid strong enough to melt through these giant fucking metal bolts that hold up the bell of a cathedral. Like you got that shit together fast, bro. Like Jesus. Which is strange too. Cause this Joker is more like put together up there than most jokers. So it was just one of those things that I noticed that I thought was funny. Well, the whole thing about the Joker and most, uh, most incarnations is the whole fact that like,

[00:58:47] whenever you question anything about him, it's always kind of, he's such an unreliable narrator that you could never, it's always, you have to kind of, you just never can think of, you just have to kind of take what it is. Cause you never, you'll never know. That's true. I mean, that's why like the killing joke is so famous. Cause it's, it's quote unquote his origin story, but the entire thing is like, he's an unreliable narrator. So you're, you're never sure it might be his origin or he's bullshitting. It's kind of like, um,

[00:59:17] obviously we'll talk about it in more detail when we, when we get there, but like the, the whole, how did I get these scars stick in the dark night? Like, I love that whole thing. Like the first time we hear it and it's like, Oh, that's interesting. That's cool. And then he does it again, but he does a different story and it's like, what the fuck? And then he does a good time. And it's just like, what, what is going on here? That's his unreliable narrator. Like that, that's like the one time they've really gone into it too. I mean, my favorite line, my favorite Heath Ledger quote is still always like, and I'll make this pencil disappear.

[00:59:47] It's just like, Oh, the first time I saw that dude, I was like, all right, let's go. I'm fucking strapped in for this. Like, this is like, okay, this is a Joker. All right. But I feel like that movie like easily could have ended in like three different places. Oh yeah. It is. It is an experience. Yeah. But, but yeah, so I guess we'll wrap it up here. Once again, guys, thank you for joining us on geek addicts.

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