Overrated, Underrated, Or Properly Rated? Vol. 4 | The Record Store

[00:00:00] It's driving time, with Fine Time I'm sick, I'm sick, I'm sick, head deadly, I'm sick, I'm sick Hello party people, it's your boy Dre and I am back with my boy Evan, he's back Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, girl Look at that hoe We're here, we're doing it live

[00:00:29] We're doing it live We're doing the overrated, underrated, properly rated You've probably heard us do this a number of times, but if you haven't, here's how this goes Me and Evan, we have been friends, oh my god, we've known each other for almost 20 years Can you believe that shit? That's crazy Isn't that shit nuts? Yeah What are we gonna do for anniversary? Oh my gosh, yeah, we'll have to look at like the list of things for like marriage anniversaries Like the first year is paper, and the second year is like, I don't know

[00:00:58] Like fucking cotton ball or something, I don't know So we'll have to see what the 20 year like prize is We should get like one of those plaques with like a poem on it and shit And like, you know, like embossed, like fucking, yeah Some crazy shit I wasn't whole until I met you Yeah, yeah, we gotta do that, and it's us eating a jack-in-the-box or something Yes Okay, so basically how this goes is that we've known each other a long time and we've always

[00:01:27] Played this game amongst each other where we just throw a song at each other from popular Music history and we decide whether they are overrated, underrated, or properly rated And that's what we're gonna do We don't know the songs that we're going to say to each other beforehand So this is all off the cuff, a complete surprise But for you guys, if you want to listen along And because you might not know these songs as well as we do

[00:01:52] There will be a Spotify and a title playlist link in the description of this podcast So go ahead and check that out if you want to listen along with the show Shall we say? Obviously we can't play that music on the air Because we will get hilariously DMCA'd into Oblivion So we're gonna have to do a playlist style God, that would be so good if they were just so good about fair use And we could just play the song on here and just like Oh my god, that would be such a better show I would love that Yeah, what can we do?

[00:02:22] We don't have any money for these lawyers We can't get lawyered up up in here That's true Yeah, not with Pam Bondi's Justice Department We best stay prayed up Gotta tell ya Alright, so with all that said, let's get started Alright, I'll launch us in I'll fire the first shot here Alright, go ahead, you go first

[00:02:50] Alright, so the first thing that I want to talk about today Is a huge hit Huge, huge, huge Like era-defining hit Okay 1989 From the record To The Extreme We're talking Ice Ice Baby By Vanilla Ice I will Okay, so You probably know this about me already Because we discussed it several times You know the first album I ever had Was To The Extreme

[00:03:21] I had it on cassette I listened to that shit in my Walkman a lot So I'm intimately familiar with this whole record Not just Ice Ice Baby I've forgotten a lot of it now I literally have not listened to it since then But I used to be at some point Real into this shit Ice Ice Baby I will say is overrated But not by much This is not like something where I'm like This should have never been popular This should have

[00:03:49] Look, you had to be there You just had to be there It made so much sense at the time Even if you look back at it now If you look back at the landscape of 1989, 1990 We had a lot of like Pop Like goofy novelty pop rap Right? MC Hammer was hitting at this time I think Young MC's Bust A Move Was like a big thing at this time Was what's his name still big? A fucking Tone Loke

[00:04:18] Wasn't he still a thing? Yeah, yeah That's just kind of like And then you had like more serious Quote unquote like real rappers Still doing varied dance tracks Like the absolute classic of Rob Bass and What's his name? It Takes Two It Takes Two to make a thing go right One of the best songs of all fucking time In my opinion No joke So like a lot of that stuff From the very late 80s, early 90s I think is like Very important to not just hip hop But like pop culture

[00:04:47] So yeah Ice Ice Baby is overrated It feels silly to even talk about it as a real song Right? Because it's I mean like it's Why even bother? Like everyone knows what the song is It's stupid But that's okay Stupid is good Stupid is fun REM Stand is stupid Right? Like that's fine Yeah Absolutely So yeah Overrated a bit It probably was a little

[00:05:15] Just a little bit too much of the novelty of Hey this white guy is rapping Right? But like I Just overrated by a bit Okay Yeah fair enough I think one of the things You know Vanilla Ice also could dance I think that's a little underrated In the whole You know kind of picture Is that he wasn't just You know trying to show up to the mic And just like You know Spit hot fire or whatever Like this was This was not Eminem later on Or you know

[00:05:44] Logic or somebody that actually tries to like You know make some of their bones in rap proper Yeah he is not Tyler the creator No one's gonna like mistake him for that Right Exactly This is an entertainer You know But like yeah The dance moves Kind of the You know The style At the time I always think back to The whole Copyright Component You know Of course we have Queen And David Bowie's Under Pressure It's the same song Sampled heavily

[00:06:14] I can't believe they got away with that That's insane Yeah If you haven't To the audience listening If you haven't ever heard Vanilla Ice trying to defend How the song was meaningfully different There's a wonderful clip That I think was on VH1's Behind the Music And it's a recording of him Explaining You know He does something like You just gotta see it You just gotta see it Yeah We can't even explain it to you You just gotta see it It's good It's worth looking up So yeah I would agree I think it's Slightly overrated But Still deserves

[00:06:44] Its place in music history That record is also One of my first Albums as well Wow In terms of I don't think I knew that Yeah And my mom got me Like she had a bunch of cassettes and she basically You know Passed them on to me And it was a big case Of cassettes And so Really there were like Ten different cassettes That were in there Some really weird ones Like Ray Stevens Who was doing like Novelty weird songs Like he did a song Called The Streak But then there was Stuff like You know MC Hammer And then there was

[00:07:13] To the Extreme And I remember Listening to that record And there's It was all over the map And I remember thinking Like there was a song On there called Having a Roni Yeah And I remember thinking Like what is a roni What does that mean You know Because I was I was born in 85 So Yeah You do the math You know Five, six years old You hadn't heard The smash ballad The Bobby Brown song Roni No Probably at that point Not at that time No Yeah So yeah I remember songs Like he also had a song On there I think

[00:07:43] Called Hooked You know There's like some sad Lamentation about How this guy gets Like roped in By some Jezebel That record If you've never listened It takes some weird turns It's a weird listen It's not It's not all like Big hits Like Ice Ice Baby In fact It's really not like that at all But also What was so What was so Interesting about It's like what you said He could dance Guess who else was handsome And he could dance MC Hammer That's exactly why He was a big deal You know He could dance his ass off That was like

[00:08:13] Part of the appeal It was always out there Dancing Right So I I get it This was a thing At this time For a reason Again Overrated But not a whole Not by a whole lot Um Man Okay You know what Let's go here Because I've been listening To this band again Recently I haven't listened to them For a long time But you know It's a band I really like I think it's a band You like too

[00:08:42] I want to ask you About Audio Slave Like a Stone Ooh Overrated Underrated Properly rated Like a Stone Audio Slave Okay Yeah Um I would say Probably Properly rated Um Because when I hear It come up In modern Sort of context People really talk About that That guitar solo Of course You've got that Tom Morello Like squealing Guitar thing That he does Um I think

[00:09:12] A lot of Chris Cornell's Work Was really Revisited And kind of Made its way Back into the public eye When he passed away And so I think You know People took a look At really The whole Shebang They looked At Soundgarden They looked At you know The brief glance At you know Temple of the Dog A little bit Um They They also Then went back To Audio Slave And I really Think that As uh I think at the time I would say That it was Underrated

[00:09:42] Because Because he was People shit on Audio Slave You remember Right Right And he His His vocals His vocal ability I think Wildly When you listen To it Now I think We all Kind of Realized That it Was wildly Underrated Yes Like That man Could sing His ass Off And I Think we All kind Of took That for Granted Like Well that's Chris Cornell I mean That's the guy Who did Black Hole Sun And Spoonman And Hungry And all that Like yeah He could sing Sure Fine You know He's just one Of those Kind of

[00:10:11] Pillars Of the generation I have no Problem saying This He was the Best rock Singer Of the 90s Yeah He was Like I I mean Someone could Put up their Favorites And that's fine R.E.M. is my Favorite band of all Time I would never Say that about Michael Stipe Chris Cornell Is the best Rock singer Of the 90s Hands down We had some Good singers Too I think Lane Staley Can kind of Make a good Run for You know Some of that And with Vocals But he's not It's just not In the same League There

[00:10:41] You know That's really Kind of Atop the mountain And you know Chris Chris could play Guitar as well You know He was a Great songwriter He really had So much And I think That was really Taken for granted Holistically But If we kind of Look at this From sort of A Current day I think That has Caught up Now I don't think It was true At all At the time I think Audio Slave At the time I think At first People were Kind of like

[00:11:11] Okay What is this We've got The Rage Against the Machine People Without You know Zach De La Rocha You've got Chris Cornell Sort of being Shoehorned In here We had a lot Of super Groups You know We had Velvet Revolver And all Kinds of Stuff boiling Around At that Time Or bubbling Around And so I think It was Viewed Some of That is Viewed With a Little Bit of Skepticism Of like What are You trying To do People Always Wanted Audio Slave To be Something Other than Exactly What it Was If you If you If I

[00:11:41] You didn't Know about This band I said Hey It's the Music Guys From Rage Against The Machine Except Chris Cornell Singing You can Imagine What that Would Sound Like And then You hear Cochise And then It's Exactly What you Thought it Was Right And I Think For people That was Either Disappointing Or Just Predictable Or Something Or Just Like Okay Yeah That's Exactly What they Would Do But It Was So Fucking Good But I'm Not Here To Be The Audio Slave Defender At This Time But Like Yeah Like A Stone Has Never Been One

[00:12:30] Nowadays For The Musicality When I Think Maybe It Wasn't So Much At The Time And To Kind Of Bounce Off Of Why I Think Some Of That Was You Was Just Saying That Suffering Is Kind Of The Difference Between Expectations And Reality And I Think A lot Of People When They Hear Rage Against The Machine Or You Think Of System Of A Down Like The First Thing That Comes To Mind For A Lot Of People Is Very Aggressive Testosterony Political

[00:12:59] Activism And It's Very In Your Face Zach Is Very Aggressive With The Politics And So Is Serge Tonkin And When You Get To Chris Cornell The Funny Thing Is I Don't Think Chris Cornell Was Something Like A Political Like Well I Don't Believe We Need Politics And Music Like Quite The Opposite Like When You Think Of Hunger Strike That's A

[00:13:43] In 2006 When They Wrote Wide Awake Or Something Like That That's What That's What That Song Is About Right So Like Yeah I Mean That's Why I Was Thinking Because I Been Listening To Audio Slave Recently But Yeah I So It's Not Never There That's Just Not The Man's Out Here Writing Stuff Like Shadow On The Sun Or You Know I Am The Highway That's Not This It's Just Not Really What Audio Slave Is That's True But At The Same Time I Mean You Know Cochise Was You Know An

[00:14:13] Indigenous Leader You Know Like You Know I Think Like The Apache Wars Okay Is That What The Song's About Like Not Really You So Like Not Particularly But Yeah Just Slightly Overrated You're Going To Say Properly Rated All Right My Turn Okay So We're Kind of In The Rock Vein Right Now So I Think It's Appropriate To Move

[00:14:43] On To Another Rock Song So We're Going To Go With Hold The Line By Toto From Their Debut Record From 1978 What Do We Think About This Oh Man I'm Almost Positive I Know The Song Listen Real Quick Because I Know I Know It I Need I Need A Refresher So Hold Please All Right We're Back I Knew It From The Opening Piano Of Course I Did I Just I Just

[00:15:13] Needed To I Just Needed To Hear The Song Real Quick I Never Knew The Lyric So Cheering Well So Yeah I'm Going to Say Properly Rated I Feel Like You Hear This Like i Hear This At Work You Know Like

[00:15:42] I hear this on where you will play stuff like Queen and general 70s rock music that hit the pop charts really hard. And Toto has always obviously had pop appeal, especially as they got into the 80s. But yeah, this is a great song. I really love the 70s when they do the classic. It almost felt like the 70s sometimes brought back the classic 50s piano.

[00:16:11] Because you know how rock and roll in the 50s is very piano based, like Little Richard and shit like that. That's the feeling I get from Hold the Line. Definitely, yeah. Kind of very Jerry Lee Lewis. We're just going to bang on the keys a little bit, get some rhythm going. Oh, yeah. Oh, Jerry Lee. The stuff he was doing on the piano was insane sometimes. It's like, oh my god. He is ear-fucking everybody with that piano sometimes. It's just like, you can hear the sex. It's just like, you know, back before when they were allowed to say stuff.

[00:16:40] You know, you had to really put the passion into your music. Anyway, but yeah. Hold the Line is a really, definitely properly rated, I would say. I don't think, this is definitely not forgotten. I think I hear it quite a bit. Great chorus. Excellent hook. Well produced, because it's fucking Toto, of course. So it's just like, it sounds like a million bucks. Yeah. Properly rated, I would say, on Hold the Line. Okay, cool.

[00:17:06] Yeah, I would think maybe, you know, slightly underrated is maybe where I would put it, but only slightly. Of course, I would agree. You're going to hear this on Muzak. You're going to hear this in grocery stores or in all kinds of places. It definitely has not faded away. And I think, like many people, you might hear the title and go, I don't know what that is. But then you play the song and you're like, oh, that song. Sure. Yeah, that's a famous song.

[00:17:31] I think if there's a part that makes this maybe underrated is I would challenge anybody listening to this podcast to give this song a listen with the best headphones you have. Because one thing I think you'll notice is Toto is an extremely musical band. It's more musical than they get credit for. They're noted for having Steve Lukather in the band. And if you don't know who that is, a huge studio musician, was on like 1,500 different

[00:18:00] records. Just crazy. He was the guy Quincy Jones called up to make a lot of those thriller songs. He's the one who did most of the guitar on Beat It, for example. Of course, Eddie Van Halen did the famous solo, but Steve Lukather of Toto was the guy who did most of the guitar heavy lifting on that song. Didn't Toto – wasn't Human Nature essentially a Toto song? Yeah, basically. Yeah. That's what I thought.

[00:18:30] I read that recently. I've been looking up a lot of Michael Jackson stuff. I got to show you, actually. I saw something the other day. It was crazy. I got to send it to you. But yeah, I've been looking up a lot of Michael Jackson stuff recently. So I found that out. Yeah. It makes sense. I mean, I've always loved that song. And it's like, duh, of course they – yeah. Right. And the thing is, he's just such a – Steve Lukather is just such an incredible musician and just so willing to kind of any time, any place, just, yeah, if I'm filling the

[00:18:57] music, I'll put down some guitar and we'll see where it goes. That I think it's just really telling that when people need a really great songwriter from a guitar standpoint, he's one of the people. He's collaborated with just almost everybody. And so when you think of Hold the Line, I think that's one of those examples of really good musicality.

[00:19:19] For a first record, I think that's really incredible to then evolve into what you hear on Toto 4 with Rosanna and Africa and all this stuff that turned them into superstars. This shows that even on their first record, though, they weren't firing blanks. They were a serious band. This could have been one of those bands that just were known for this. They could have been a one-hit wonder. They could have just had Hold the Line and that was like – I don't know if this broke

[00:19:49] them, if this was their big first hit single. It was. I mean, okay, it was. Okay, yeah. But we could have just had this and that would have been an achievement within itself because fucking listen to it. Jesus Christ. But yeah, the fact that they went on to do other stuff is great. But yeah, Hold the Line, great stuff. Like I said, I hear it all the time. Not forgotten about. I think everyone recognizes it as a classic. Everyone knows it properly rated.

[00:20:18] Okay, you know what? Let's keep rocking. We've been rocking. Let's keep rocking. Okay? I don't think we've ever talked about this song before in my recollection. I want to ask you about Living Color, Cult of Personality. Ooh. Overrated, underrated, properly rated cult of personality. I want to refresh myself on this. I know the song, obviously. I know, you know, I'm a cult of personality. Don't sing it. I know. Yeah. Sorry.

[00:20:47] We're going to get taken down again. But I want to hear it because I think this is one of those that's probably also more musical. So I want to- Hold, please. Fine time. Fine time. Fine time. Fine time. Okay. We're back. Yeah. I'm glad you refreshed. I knew you knew the song, but obviously you needed to give a little, you know. So yeah. Overrated, underrated, properly rated cult of personality. I would say underrated. I think Living Color in general is really underrated.

[00:21:16] I forgot, listening to this through the really good headphones, I think I forgot what a kind of wall of sound this song is. Like it's really loud, boisterous, you know, really in your face in a great kind of way that you really, really hope rock has from a dynamics standpoint. Really, really great stuff. And I remember the video was really cool for this too. I remember the video too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The video, I think kind of goes hand in hand with this.

[00:21:46] And I think people remember like the song. They remember the hook, I think more than anything. And that's great. It's really catchy. But I think, I don't know how much people remember some of those other nuances, even myself. And so I think I'm calling myself out for even saying, you know, I think that I've maybe slept on this a little more than maybe I should have. So I think it's just an incredible main riff. Let's just start there. That's one of the best riffs of the 80s.

[00:22:15] I've talked about it a million times on the show. I feel about 80s hair metal and like that whole scene. I don't like that shit at all. But when Living Color came on, like I said, I remember the video. And even at that young age, I was like, oh, this is some black dudes up here doing this. You know, like, of course, because that was like that. You didn't see that every day. Right. Yeah. So that was that was cool. And then also, like, it's just this. It's like you said, this wall of sound fucking powerful song.

[00:22:45] I feel like it. I mean, some of that hair metal shit crossed over the pop. I think cult personality was like a no brainer. Like, I can hear this next to Paula Abdul and like, you know, whoever. Right. Like this fits in on the pop stations, even though it's not like one of the power ballads. Right. Or one of those ones from the era. Right. It's not Def Leppard or some shit. But at the same time, it's like, yeah, I totally get why this was a thing. And it definitely was a thing at that time.

[00:23:15] I'm going to say probably just a tad underrated as well. Just a bit. It's obviously not forgotten. It's a rock classic from the 80s, no doubt, but maybe a little underrated. I think we should give it a little more due than we do. I think it's interesting thematically, too. You know, cult of personality. When we think of the 80s, you know, a lot of people, they think of like cocaine and parties and, you know, excess and some of the craziness of the 80s.

[00:23:44] But I think one thing that we also have to keep in mind is that there were a lot of kind of cults of personality that were sort of emerging, like these global superstars that were becoming larger than life that would take those careers in the 80s and continue them into the 90s. That's where a lot of those stars were really born. Like we're talking Madonna. We're talking, you know, Prince really comes into his own. We're talking Michael Jackson. We're talking, you know, Sting.

[00:24:13] I think, you know, we're lots of big groups, you know, especially big people that are individuals. Madonna, right? Right. The 80s invented the superstar. Yeah. Basically, as we know, you know, and because like before that, yeah, you could be huge. Like you could be the Beatles or something. The 80s invented a different kind of fame that we still have still kind of have today.

[00:24:36] It's much harder to reach, but it's like, you know, the cult of personality now is, I guess, like the Kardashians or some shit. But I mean, like, it's the same thing, right? Like it's it's always this like here is this big zeitgeist thing. The 80s definitely spearheaded that. It did. And it's not like we didn't have individuals that were huge, right? Like David Bowie obviously was was huge and influential, but it wasn't the same kind of cult of personality of David Bowie.

[00:25:04] Even though he was huge, it wasn't the same as I think what we got with Madonna or with Michael Jackson, like Michael Jackson, David Bowie, like Michael Jackson just hit. I mean, obviously he's incomparable, incomparable, really, like just whole other level. But still, we didn't have we didn't have cable TV. We didn't have MTV. We didn't have concert tapes that you could buy on VHS. We didn't have you know what I mean? They're like there's all this stuff that we could have in the 80s.

[00:25:32] We didn't have video games back then when David Bowie started hitting. Right. So like you couldn't have you couldn't have a video game. Michael Jackson had his own video game. David Bowie couldn't do that. Right. So like you had all this stuff, you know, that again, we still have all those things today. Maybe not MTV, but, you know, we still have this shit. So, yeah, I agree. And like cult personality is that. But it's also not like finger waggy. It doesn't feel right or anything. It's just kind of commenting.

[00:26:00] Hey, this is what's happening in the late 80s right now. You know, whatever. Definitely a unique phenomenon. I mean, because, yeah, we have that technology and you see how technology empowers, you know, going viral, you know, virality. And really, this is kind of the seeds of that. Really kind of interesting that that was a subject that they decided to comment on, you know, instead of just, you know, like you said, with rock. We're not talking about, you know, necessarily girls or cocaine or partying or whatever exactly.

[00:26:28] Like sort of more of a social phenomenon, but without the preachiness or condemnation, really. It's just sort of we're going to observe on what's going on. I think it's cool. Yeah. It's just like just walk. It's like walking down the street and just people watching or something, just seeing what's going on. That's the kind of song this is. And it has that strut because of that killer main riff. So, yeah, absolutely. A little bit both underrated for us.

[00:26:57] All right. I am going to take us into a different direction. We can go back to rock in a little bit, but I want to take us away from rock. Okay. And I want to take us into 1994 with Woomp There It Is by Tag Team. Oh, man. Oh, yes. I'm happy. Whenever you make me happy on this show, that song puts a smile on my face.

[00:27:26] I love this song. It is. I want to say underrated. Just be an asshole. I mean, I almost feel like saying it. Just be. Okay. Okay. So I think you know this acutely. Everyone who listens to this probably knows this about me. I fucking hate funny music. I don't like Weird Al.

[00:27:49] I don't like if it's like real music, almost like The Lonely Island, I guess, is funny sometimes because they're really putting this production into it. But I really don't like here is the same song, but with funny lyrics. That is just the worst to me. Now, obviously, Woomp There It Is is not like a parody song, but it is a novelty song. And I do really have a soft spot for novelty songs. I feel like people don't take them seriously. The word novelty in itself just sounds like an insult, right?

[00:28:20] But it is a novelty song. I watched a video on this. I think. Yeah. It was Todd in the Shadows. I mentioned him before a few episodes ago when we were talking about Bitch. He also did a video one time about Woomp There It Is, and he described it perfectly where he said it's not even a word. It's a sound effect. Woomp There It Is. Yeah. Like a comic, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It's like Biff Pow, right? Woomp.

[00:28:49] It's wild. I think it's great. It's an excellent 90s party rap thing. You know, it's funny, right? Because like when the gangster rap came in, when Dr. Dre came in and, you know, people thought, oh, you know, that's all we listened to in the 90s. MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were starting to like go away. But it's like we still had party. We still had the dip. We still had, you know, like. Come on, ride the train. Yeah. Come on, ride the train. Right?

[00:29:17] And we still had Woomp There It Is, right? Like I love this song. I legitimately think it's great. I don't think people think of it as a real song. So I'm actually going to say underrated. Fuck it. I'm doing it. It's underrated. Okay. Perfect. I would say properly rated because I think a lot of times when people think of those big dancey songs, you know, I think it gets grouped in that same category. You know, like this is how we do it. Woomp. There it is. You know, come on, ride the train.

[00:29:48] Like all those sorts of songs. So I think it's remembered. I think it's appreciated in that particular context. So a little bit of history for people, too, that are listening. I found this out. This is also a personal story, too. I found out, and maybe you already knew this history, Dre. I found out about the song that came out at the same time, essentially, called Woot There It Is. It was made by the Atlanta-based group 95 South.

[00:30:17] Yep. That had like stripper anthem kind of vibes. Like that was very much like, you know, show your ass, like, whoop, there it is. That was the first like twerking jam, basically, is what that was. Yeah. Yeah. He literally has like the lyric, like, yo, fellas, wear that booty at, woot, there it is. So in a way, it's not really surprising that that song didn't quite take off in the same way that more of a generic party song did. Right. But like, whoop, there it is, is not clean.

[00:30:46] Like there is, there is some, I mean, he spells booty, right? B-W-O-T-Y-O-M-I. Yeah. Right? Like it's not exactly like the clean, but it's definitely like more friendly on the radio than woot. There it is for sure. Yeah, absolutely. I found out about that, you know, because I was working with a guy out of Atlanta and I was talking about Woot There It Is. And he was like, oh, but you, have you heard woot? There it is. I'm like, woot, there it is. Mm-hmm. Like, let me look into this.

[00:31:15] And I looked into the whole history and everything. And there was a whole kind of snafu and controversy over like who did what first? And were you stealing my song or idea? Because, you know, that saying like woot or woop, there it is. It's sort of a regional like Miami, Atlanta kind of club thing. And so it was one of those kind of sayings. It was just like lingo and slang kind of a thing. Yeah.

[00:31:39] But the fact that both surfaced in a song in very similar fashions in a chorus, you know, kind of made a little bit of a snafu at the time. But it's the there it is, I guess, is the part. It's not even the sound effect woomp or woot. It's the there it is, is the part that's like, whoa, you both came up with that at the same time. For the record, I never thought there was like anything nefarious going on there.

[00:32:00] I feel like just two guys, two groups arrived at the same conclusion at the same time, because like if you're in a show, I mean, there it is might just be a strip club thing to say at that time anyway. Right. So like who who knows? Right. But yeah, no, woomp. There it is. Again, excellent. Every time I hear it, I'm like, yeah, I knew all the words to it. I, you know, I was I love the song. Yes, I had the cassette single. Of course I did. Yes.

[00:32:29] Yes, but slightly underrated. I feel like people because it's so goofy, I don't think people give it its proper due. OK, I'd say properly rated, but I would still say that it is the better of the two songs between woomp. There it is. And woot. There it is. For sure. All right. Let's stay in the 90s. I think this is also 1994, if I remember correctly, or at least that's when I got it.

[00:32:58] This was her only hit as a solo artist when she got out of Arrested Development. I want to ask you about Dion Ferris. I know. Overrated, underrated, properly rated. I know. Ooh, that was I remember that song being a huge hit. That was all over the radio. Super catchy, really driving rhythm guitar in that song.

[00:33:24] So I will confess to our audience that this is one of those songs that, you know, based on the title. I just I was like, I don't know if I know that song. But if you're in the same boat as I was listening to this podcast, the second you hit that link to take you to the song, you're going to know it if you were alive. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. If you were alive in the 90s, you know the song. Definitely. If you're listening along with us, you're hearing it. Check the description to find those those playlists, like I said.

[00:33:51] But yeah, if you don't know what you probably don't think you know it, you probably do. You totally do. Yeah. I love this song. This is one of those great songs that I think sometimes gets, you know, maybe forgotten about because we had such an abundance of riches of songs. There were so many great songs in the 90s to choose from that were just kind of flooding the radio stations all at once. And this was this had its moment.

[00:34:17] And I think that some of the hits that were just mega, mega, mega hits, sometimes they take precedence. They end up on the mixtapes. They end up on the nostalgia playlists. And I think songs like this sometimes don't get their due, not even because they weren't popular or because it's just because there were so many other wonderful songs.

[00:34:40] And because they're there, if you didn't have one of those other follow up hits to kind of chain into this, it's one of those where you could just kind of lose sight of it. I would say underrated probably a fair amount. I don't know how much I don't know how much shine this is getting in 2025, though. I think it absolutely should be. I don't think you hear this at all. I think it was honestly forgotten a year after it came out.

[00:35:08] You almost you never heard it because like think about, I don't know, radio back then, right? Like, of course, they'd be playing the newest hits, right? But you'd still hear stuff from a couple of years ago or you'd still hear stuff from five, six years ago here and there in the mix. Right. I feel like you never heard I know after it was a big hit and it was a smash. It was kind of everywhere.

[00:35:31] And it's like, oh, yeah, the lady from, you know, Arrested Development's Tennessee who made that like song basically what it is. Oh, doing a solo record. Oh, that's great. Oh, shit. She's doing it like this. Awesome. You know, like it was such a breath of fresh air. And again, it sounds very 90s. It sounds very like especially in the production, right? There's like a lot of stuff in there. I like how stacked it is. You know, it's not a it's not a simple song. It's very layered. And I like that.

[00:36:02] Obviously, a great hook. It's just the one hook, really. But I love the bridge or maybe the chorus be. It's not going to work this time. You know, I like I like that part a lot. That shit really sends me. But yeah, I've I had this album actually. And it's really it's pretty good. Yeah, it's pretty good. There's a lot of varied stuff on that. It's not like 12 versions of I know, you know, it's it's it's pretty good anyway. Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you.

[00:36:30] I think this is underrated and by quite a bit. This, you know, honestly, in the history of us doing these shows, I think this might be the most underrated one. I honestly can't think of one that's more underrated than this. This deserves so much more attention than it probably has nowadays. Absolutely. And there's definitely songs that we we can think about in our own collections. I'm sure everybody can think of that. We wish were bigger.

[00:36:56] But this is one of those rare songs that was huge, that got tons of airplay that probably everybody knows that was around that just kind of vanished. And there wasn't a good reason for it vanishing. Like, I think the only explanatory framework that maybe I have for it is just kind of volume and maybe capitalism as far as it relates to the radio stations. The radio stations had a lot of different relationships with various labels, things like that.

[00:37:25] So if you're Tony Braxton and you're releasing a new single, well, you know, the radio station might play some old Tony Braxton, too. Kind of link into that. So radio love Tony Braxton, dude. Oh, my God, dude. They played so much. Tony, the amount of Tony Braxton we heard on the radio was so disproportionate. I mean, look, there's nothing wrong with the lady. She had a lot of jams, right? That's fine. It's just that like it was it was a lot. They love Tony Braxton. Yeah, we don't get that with the Dion.

[00:37:55] Well, here's the thing. I guess I was going to say it's because she's a one hit wonder, but it's like she was known before she had this hit as like in another group. So like, I don't know. I guess it's her only solo hit, but it's not like people didn't know who the fuck she was. It's not like she came out of nowhere before that. You know, a lot of one hit wonders have a lot more play than this. Let's say she did come out of nowhere.

[00:38:19] We remember OMC's How Bizarre more than we do like this, you know, like and it's that's weird to me. It is weird, you know, and it's it's really hard to kind of put your finger on what it is that that really creates that staying power. Like, I don't know. It makes me wonder what that is, because at first I was thinking like, OK, well, when you think of huge hits, you know, one of the things I was thinking of is, you know, Tracy Chapman's Fast Car.

[00:38:49] And, you know, just what a wonderful song that is. And it's like, OK, well, that's relatable to a lot of people who maybe feel trapped and who are struggling economically, you know, sort of the weight of the American dream and their expectations versus reality. It touches you and the heartstrings, you know, so like, OK, so I could see why that sticks around.

[00:39:08] You know, I know is, you know, kind of flirty and and fun and it's got a lot of personality, but it's, you know, sometimes fun doesn't necessarily stick around. But then again, sometimes it does. That's that's the other thing is how bizarre is kind of fun. Yeah. How bizarre is fun? But the 90s were about fun, right? Yeah. We had the grunge. We had all the, you know, whatever. But like we also had a lot of this. So that's true. I don't know, man. It is weird how this song just gets forgotten.

[00:39:38] Maybe because it's a sound that we just simply do not do anymore. We don't do that kind of like rootsy pop song, rootsy rock pop song anymore. But then again, you ask anyone who's like a counting crows stand for the last 30 years, they love that shit still. Right. So like, I don't know, man. It's weird. I think it's massively underrated. I know. And I think I wish it would be like it deserves to be one of the 90s like kingpins. And it's just not.

[00:40:09] Absolutely. I agree. A million percent. Highly underrated. Okay. You give me one more. I'll give you one more. Then we'll go to lightning round. How about that? All right. Yeah, that sounds good. Okay. Um, I'm going to let you pick. Are we doing alternative rock or like R&B? Oh, let's go R&B.

[00:40:39] Okay. How about If You Love Me by Brownstone 1994? Oh, man. Damn. Talk about songs. That's a forgotten one. For sure. Absolutely. Damn. That's one reason why I wanted to bring that up is I was like, you know, I bet there's a lot of people who are like, what? What song is that? No, I know. I, I, you know, that's a look. We always make fun of the 90s R&B with the, with the single tones.

[00:41:07] That is a sepia ass fucking band right there. Brownstone, right? That's, they're not the blue tones like the Mary J. Blige or the Jodeci. It's the sepia, right? Like that, that's what that shit is. Um, man, you know, I've, I'm going to say, so here's the thing. I've never been a huge fan of the song. I like it, but it's never been like, oh yeah, that's my jam.

[00:41:31] Um, but I don't want to sit here and just say it's just properly rated because it's forgotten because maybe it shouldn't be, but also maybe it should be. So let me think like if I'm thinking about other stuff at the time that was hitting, like Aaliyah was just coming out, right? Or like SWV was a thing. En Vogue was a thing. TLC was a thing. God damn. Remember we used to have. Right.

[00:41:58] That would have been a really crowded field to stand out against. Yeah. Remember groups, man. Remember we used to have groups. Shit. God. Um, now, gee, I wonder, I wonder if the music industry is healthy at all that everyone has to be a solo artist anymore because it's the only way you have a chance. Those kids in there, Charlie XCX. I like Charlie XCX. Yeah. Um, I, I'm sure she likes you too. I, God, I wish.

[00:42:28] I, who said that? Who said that? Um, I, I don't know. Okay. I'm going to say. Properly rated. I don't think it's like a good enough song compared to the, like the groups I just said to be like elevated. Like we should remember it as this thing. I think it had its moment in the sun. It was a nice little mid nineties R and B jam. And that's all it really deserves to be.

[00:42:51] I don't think it's like a tour de force, like a, a Dina Howard's freak like me or like a, you know what I mean? One of those songs is like, Oh, this is, that's the shit. Right. But not, not like that. Right. So I, I'm going to say properly rated on if you love me. Yeah. I think so too. It's, uh, it is good, but not great.

[00:43:17] And I think when you have such kind of cutthroat competition of the era, it is really hard to last even with a really good song. And this was good, but maybe not even like really good, you know, definitely not great. I don't think it was really good. It was just, it was a nice little, and I know this word I'm going to say is going to sound like insulting, but it's not. It was nice little fluff on the radio. So what it was, you know? Oh yeah. I like that one. Sure. You know, keeps you going.

[00:43:46] And that's what it was. And that's very inoffensive. Yeah. Yeah. Inoffensive and properly rated. We don't deserve to remember it any more than we already do. All right. Brownstone, if you're listening, uh, I hope you're okay with that. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure they're fine with their royalties. Yeah. Okay.

[00:44:10] This is a song we've discussed extensively, so I know you like it, but let's try to put it in its proper place in history. Okay. Mm-hmm. I want to ask you about Salt-N-Pepa. Push it. Oh, wow. Overrated, underrated, properly rated. Push it. Oh, man. That is a huge, huge song. Mm-hmm. Still remembered.

[00:44:38] Um, I think it's referenced a lot because of, you know, I mean, you know, push it real good. I mean, anytime anybody says anything about pushing a thing, it's really easy to, like, joke about that or reference that. They've also had their kind of moment with commercials. Like, I've seen them in commercials. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They've shown up in commercials. Yes, they have. Weren't they in some sort of reality show, too? I believe so. Woot There It Is was in a fucking Geico commercial, now that you mentioned that, right? Oh, yeah.

[00:45:08] Like, a couple years ago? Yeah. It was the two dudes. It was actually, like, the guys. That's right. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, that also helps with staying power. Uh-huh. Yeah. Being able to show that. No, but push it as a fucking 80s classic, obviously, but how classic? And that keyboard, like, the keyboard is just so essential to the song. There's so many fucking hooks. There's so many hooks.

[00:45:32] Dude, you know, I don't know how much you know about the making of the song, but it was yet another one of those stories where it's just, like, supposed to be a toss-off B-side. Wow. They just record. Yeah. This was supposed to be a B-side to their big hit. No, push it was the hit. They didn't know. They just kind of, like, oh, whatever. We'll just put this on the other side. No, dude. You know why it's so good? Okay. I think it's underrated. Okay. Even after all this time. Because I think musically, it's fucking incredible. That's true.

[00:46:01] And I don't think people think about it that way. That's true. Every single thing that's packed into that song is just, what is this? Like, for the time in the 80s that that came out, it was just everything. It was hip hop. It was whatever would become techno, which we didn't even have yet. That was still, like, the bridge between electro and funk to, like, full-on, like, Chicago house. But we weren't really there yet. So it had that, like, 80s party vibe to it.

[00:46:31] And then the lyrics are just, like, so silly. Better make it fast or else I'm going to get pissed. That's so dumb. Like, I love it. Like, that's great. You know? Oh, yeah. That is classic. But you're right, though. And I think I can get in line with that. Because you're right. I think when people think of that song, I think sometimes people group it into just party anthems and just another kind of fun song.

[00:46:58] If we're looking for, like, a retro, you know, throwback kind of playlist. Like, I think a lot of those songs, for better or worse, they're dragged out when there's an occasion for dancing. Which I think a lot of times the older you get, that's, like, weddings, you know, kind of events where it's, like, all right, we're all going to, like, dance and whatnot. And it's, like, so, of course. Well, what are we going to get people to dance to? Those 90s jams are great to kind of get people moving.

[00:47:27] And so I think people think of it in that context of, like, oh, yeah, this is, like, the fun dance song. Like, I bet there's countless wedding DJs all over the country that have that somewhere in the mix. But you're right. I don't think that necessarily people are really stopping and respecting the musicality of that song. And I think the musicality even goes beyond just the keyboard stuff.

[00:47:50] I think about how much, like, the vocal equivalent of, like, Salt-N-Pepa did the vocal equivalent of what Vanilla Ice was doing on the dance floor. Like, they were going their ass off on that song. Yeah, it sounds incredible. I like the ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, like that part. I love all the, like, all the high bell sounds. Like, those very 80s, like, bell sounds up in the, like, high up in the mix. I love the da-da-da-da-da. That part sounds fucking incredible. Right?

[00:48:19] Like, I think the song musically is insane. And, again, I don't think people think about it that way. Maybe they should. And the vocals really had that, you know, when we talk about, like, we talked earlier about kind of rock and some of the things that really make rock music work. Like, some of the brashness and attitude. This is a rock song. Yeah. This is a rock song. Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. And I think this is a great kind of illustration of how, you know, people, you got to understand the roots of rock being rooted in black music.

[00:48:47] And you see that coming through also in hip-hop in ways if you're listening. And you can really hear that, I think, with the vocals, with the attitude. Like, they are, like, loud. Not vocally loud, but they're, you know, not volume, but with intensity and with delivery. Like, they are like, yo, yo! You know? Yeah. Boom. Hey, you. Come here. Give me a kiss. It's so fucking...

[00:49:11] And, like, again, like, for a woman to say that, like, on a record, you didn't really hear that type of shit. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, that was kind of, oh, okay, Peppa. All right. Very brash. In your face. You know, fully willing to, like, own, you know, their sexuality and, like, own that they, like, wanted to get down. Obviously, we saw, you know, see that later with, like, what a man. And, you know, they kept that spirit going. Yeah, shoop. Yeah, shoop. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:49:39] But you really have that in-your-face element with, like, a lot of, like, you know, vocal modulation, like, really hitting it with the intensity. And I think... I don't think people really stop and understand and appreciate what that song is doing. I think it's just kind of shoehorned into, like, the retro 90s dance thing. And I think it does deserve a little more than that, for sure. Yeah, for sure. I think it's just great. I'm going to say underrated. Not by a ton.

[00:50:08] Again, it's survived a lot. It's been in commercials. It's obviously still a very known song. And they still perform it, obviously, because they're still together. Because why not? Fuck it at this point, right? So, yeah, it's remembered, but still underrated to me. Okay. Now, per usual, Kevin has given us some lightning round songs. I have not looked at them, so this is going to be a surprise to both of us.

[00:50:36] So I'm going to look at them now and see if we want to do any. Oh, okay. Lightning round. No doubt. Spider webs. Overrated, underrated, properly rated spider webs. I'm going to say a little overrated. I never thought that. I mean, like, I like it, but it was played a lot. I think it was, like, a little much for, I don't know. It was good, but not that good.

[00:51:05] Slightly overrated spider webs. What do you think? Yeah, I think especially for that record, you know, I think good, but, you know, the huger hit is obviously just a girl, you know, that's really, I think, set that record off. You know, for better or for worse. Yeah, good. Other songs eclipsed it, and I think that's okay. Yeah, I don't know, man.

[00:51:34] Like, if I think of, like, the pantheon of no doubt singles, I'm more likely to think about, like, Sunday morning or hella good or something, like, more than I might think a spider web, you know? Like, shit. I don't know, man. I like it. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to shit on it. Just slightly overrated for me. Okay. Let's do one more. Lightning round. He has here Incubus, Megalomaniac. Oh, yeah. Okay. Overrated and overrated properly. I know you're Incubus guy.

[00:52:03] You kind of, I mean, you're more into them than me. That's for sure. Yeah. At least you were at the time. I mean, I remember when we met, we were still kind of pretty into that kind of scene, right? So, like, I know you've done more Incubus than me. I've never been a huge Incubus person. I remember my friend had Science on CD. I remember he really liked that. It's the most Incubus I've ever listened to. But, no, I know Megalomaniac. I think this is a pretty good song. Yeah. Did he ever admit that he said this is about W?

[00:52:33] Or did he ever, like... Yeah. I think we got there. I mean, that was really filled with, you know, the video was filled with all sorts of, like, anti-war imagery. And it was very, you know, it was very of the era. That 9-11, you know, George Bush, like, fucking everything up kind of era where people were kind of pissed off about that. But, yeah. Yeah. It's, uh... Good. Yeah. That's a good song.

[00:53:00] If I remember right, I believe that was off of A Crow Left of the Murder. I believe so. I think it was, like, the first single or something. Yeah. That was the lead single off of that record. Uh, I think it's good. I think for me, off of that record, I think there's just so much better material off of that record that it's hard for me as an Incubus fan to, like, put too much stock into that. Especially as far as singles go. Um, if we're talking Incubus singles, you've got, like, the...

[00:53:29] I mean, their biggest record, really their biggest two records were the two records before that, where you had Morning View, you know, which had the really huge mega smashes, like, uh... Like, yeah. But, like, I feel like when Megalomania came out, I don't think people were really thinking much about that. I feel like that was taken as a sort of, like, singularity. Or at least, okay, maybe that's just my perception. But I sure as hell wasn't thinking about Drive or whatever when I, like, when this came out. And also, like, I don't know.

[00:53:59] I think it's a good song. I think properly rated. We don't think about it much anymore because it's a very song... It's a song of its time. Very. It couldn't possibly be more of its time. So, I think it's properly rated, Megalomania. Good song. Yeah. Maybe properly rated, but if it's properly rated, it's appropriately rated as just fine. Yeah. I think so. I think there's better songs. I don't know how much... I'll put it this way.

[00:54:24] Like, the only time I've seen Incubus was in 2023 at the world's stupidest named show ever. The Sick New World, you know, a big old festival that had, like, all the, like, you know, like, Deftones and Korn and Chevelle and lots of different nu metal groups. They should have just named it Sick Sad World. I mean, who cares? That would have been way funnier. Never. Just pay MTV, get the licensing. Yeah. Yeah. Sick New World. And get the eyeball and everything.

[00:54:54] Like, who gives a shit? Right. That would have been way cooler. Sick New World. That would have been way cooler. I was embarrassed to tell anybody, oh, I went to Sick New World. I'm like, God, this is so cringe. So fucking cringe and embarrassing. Oh, my favorite song is Silly World. Right. Yes. Exactly. Man, you know, but, like, I saw them. I saw Incubus. They were there. They played a set and super great show. So I don't believe that they played that song, you know, which, you know, doesn't necessarily mean too much.

[00:55:23] But it makes me wonder, like, how often do you put that in a set list? Like, do they find that relevant and really worth inclusion in, like, their live shows and stuff? And I don't know that they do. And I think that's okay. I don't think, I don't know how much the band holds that in high regard. I don't know how much fans hold it in high regard. Probably properly rated as perfectly fine for the early 2000s. Yeah, I agree. Just it deserves to stay in that place. And it was rated properly at the time. It's rated properly now.

[00:55:53] Yeah, that's it. Okay. Great stuff. Excellent stuff. We'll surely do this again. So definitely, I hope everyone out there enjoyed this. Again, check the description of this podcast to find our links on social media and links to the playlist of all the songs mentioned in this episode. And we'll see you next time. Bye. Find time. Broadcasting worldwide.